Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea I remember about a year ago I posted a topic to attempt stopping clones. Lol. Anyone remember that one?Anyway, I want to share my personal experiences with this topic. This will be a long post, so I might bore you half way through.Feel free to skip to the last paragraph if you want to skip my project history.I have a few projects I have started, only one of which is public. But I will display a summary of each one.The first project I started when I actually got the hang of coding, is the level creator for rhythm rage. I created it because, well one didn't exist, and I was tired of coding levels over and over. So I said screw it, I'm going to try to code a program that will be a pain in the ass, but I only have to write this program once, so I don't have to write levels a million times. For years I had thought of how it would work, just imagining one, and I have to say, it has gone much further and cleaner than what I thought before it existed. So that project was completely original, and I was tired of coding so I took the time to learn the objects and methods used to make it. First thing I ever made from scratch.I started working on another project about a week or 2 after the creator. This is the project that is the next biggest in development. Forum user an idiot and I were playing Dreidel on rs games and he decided to make a time crest reference. He used time crystals as the currency for the game. It instantly sparked an idea in me to create an online time crest parody in bgt. This would be a resource management game rather than a storyline. Each character would have their pros and cons. In this case, my ideas were not original, they were from time crest, but the style and format of this game were completely different. Plus it was online. A few people have this prototype game, and they all love it. It is very unique and different from other online games. Not complex, but not boring.The third project is complete but not public. This actually wasn't my idea at all, and I did not start the project. Another person thought of creating a Random Evil Guy simulator. For those of you unfamiliar with that character, he is a stupid human like robot who loves watching tv, eating chips, drinking soda, and insulting everyone. I am not the type to like simulators, but I decided why not. I was the only coder of the people who were working on it with advanced coding knowledge, so I coded customizing tv shows and even different themes of tv shows. I really exercised my customization skills with that project.The 4th one is a random file player. I don't have much to say. It has a guess the file game, and a list saver so you can load saved lists of sounds. There are a few small projects like that, that are not important.The last one, is a crazy party battle. I want to recreate it. This obviously isn't my idea at all, and no way is it my own creativity. I am just interested in how it works. This definitely will not be a public project. For obvious reasons.I'm not very creative, but somehow coding changed that for me. It is very hard to be original, but a lot of the work I do is original, or at least different. And I think the reason why I am creative, and can come up with original ideas or different ones, is because I enjoy giving myself a challenge, to see what I can do, and what I can learn to do. This is my third time trying to make a crazy party battle. Each time I have gotten extremely further, because I have learned a lot from my other projects. I am honestly surprised how I have made all of these things, how I have come up with ideas different, even going as far as making the level creator, something no one has made yet. And I made it public because I want to give back to this community. I felt like I could contribute and say thank you for all of the developers who work to make their games. It feels very special to me that I was able to provide not just something to this community, but something totally original. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493734/#p493734 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea @NidzaI say it because that's what Steevo said, and also because it uses the same sounds and for a while, it used very similar mechanics to several CP minigames as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493622/#p493622 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea I never considered oh shit a CP ripoff, except for the sounds which are anyways not made by Pragma and that was obviously the point of the game. However, CP is not the first game to introduce pits nor falling objects so I am not sure why is that the impression? That would be like saying that sidescrollers in crazy party are a clone of other available sidescrollers with pits and lava in them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493618/#p493618 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Yeah with @13, think someone else recently said something along these lines... more or less that unless you're buying a game you really don't have the right to expect something spectacular. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493607/#p493607 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Good post TunmiAgreed with Nidza and Turtlepower here, yeah we almost all want new ideas, but people need to actually try the game first, even if they don't think it's a copycat but they do believe it's unoriginal and boring.And even if it sounds like a copycat based on the name (endless runner 2 anyone?) you need to first really think about how much actual proof you have, and second of all how much harm would be done even if it was since no one is making money off the thing and the original isn't even that popular any more.For instance, I thought the blood rain was just another crappy shootemup like all the various scrolling battles games, and it does have annoying problems, but it's also so much more than that.Or look at the success of Oh Shit and to a lesser extent Ah Dammit. CP ripoffs, but they were honest about it, and especially with Oh Shit, the trophies, complex stats, scoreboards, and progression in difficulty really made it something special.As I get older I'm realizing more that, as long as you do it well, it really doesn't matter if it's 80% identical to the last three games like it, and that I either need to actually play the thing for a good amount of time first and make my own decision about it, or shut the fuck up and just skip that one without making the problem worse by adding yet another badly formed knee jerk opinion.Plus, there is something to be said for getting off your ass and helping to make better games, even if it's just voice acting, sound design, writing or ideas. , even paying for people's licenses to cut down on piracy, creating reviews or quick help guides or just answering the questions of new players is useful, after all this is a community, and we get out what we put in.Most devs here make little to know money off their products and have to fit coding in around school or work.Does that mean we should accept totally crap games? No, but it does mean we should be more constructive if we actually want things to change, instead of just bitching and screaming. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493600/#p493600 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Good post TunmiAgreed with Nidza and Turtlepower here, yeah we almost all want new ideas, but people need to actually try the game first, even if they don't think it's a copycat but they do believe it's unoriginal and boring.And even if it sounds like a copycat based on the name (endless runner 2 anyone?) you need to first really think about how much actual proof you have, and second of all how much harm would be done even if it was since no one is making money off the thing and the original isn't even that popular any more.For instance, I thought the blood rain was just another crappy shootemup like all the various scrolling battles games, and it does have annoying problems, but it's also so much more than that.Or look at the success of Oh Shit and to a lesser extent Ah Dammit. CP ripoffs, but they were honest about it, and especially with Oh Shit, the trophies, complex stats, scoreboards, and progression in difficulty really made it something special.As I get older I'm realizing more that, as long as you do it well, it really doesn't matter if it's 80% identical to the last three games like it, and that I either need to actually play the thing for a good amount of time first and make my own decision about it, or shut the fuck up and just skip that one without making the problem worse by adding yet another badly formed knee jerk opinion.Plus, there is something to be said for getting off your ass and helping to make better games, even if it's just voice acting, sound design, writing or ideas. , even creating reviews or quick help guides or just answering the questions of new players is useful, after all this is a community, and we get out what we put in.Most devs here make little to know money off their products and have to fit coding in around school or work.Does that mean we should accept totally crap games? No, but it does mean we should be more constructive if we actually want things to change, instead of just bitching and screaming. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493600/#p493600 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Good post TunmiAgreed with Nidza and Turtlepower here, yeah we almost all want new ideas, but people need to actually try the game first, even if they don't think it's a copycat but they do believe it's unoriginal and boring.And even if it sounds like a copycat based on the name (endless runner 2 anyone?) you need to first really think about how much actual proof you have, and second of all how much harm would be done even if it was since no one is making money off the thing and the original isn't even that popular any more.For instance, I thought the blood rain was just another crappy shootemup like all the various scrolling battles games, and it does have annoying problems, but it's also so much more than that.Or look at the success of Oh Shit and to a lesser extent Ah Dammit. CP ripoffs, but they were honest about it, and especially with Oh Shit, the trophies, complex stats, scoreboards, and progression in difficulty really made it something special.As I get older I'm realizing more that, as long as you do it well, it really doesn't matter if it's 80% identical to the last three games like it, and that I either need to actually play the thing for a good amount of time first and make my own decision about it, or shut the fuck up and just skip that one without making the problem worse by adding yet another badly formed knee jerk opinion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493600/#p493600 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Good post TunmiAgreed with Nidza and Turtlepower here, yeah we almost all want new ideas, but people need to actually try the game first, even if they don't think it's a copycat but they do believe it's unoriginal and boring.And even if it sounds like a copycat based on the name (endless runner 2 anyone?) you need to first really think about how much actual proof you have, and second of all how much harm would be done even if it was since no one is making money off the thing and the original isn't even that popular any more.For instance, I thought the blood rain was just another crappy shootemup like all the various scrolling battles games, and it does have annoying problems, but it's also so much more than that.Look at the success of Oh Shit and to a lesser extent Ah Dammit. CP ripoffs, but they were honest about it, and especially with Oh Shit, the trophies, complex stats, scoreboards, and progression in difficulty really made it something special.As I get older I'm realizing more that, as long as you do it well, it really doesn't matter if it's 80% identical to the last three games like it, and that I either need to actually play the thing for a good amount of time first and make my own decision about it, or shut the fuck up and just skip that one without making the problem worse by adding yet another badly formed knee jerk opinion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493600/#p493600 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Takes me back to the days when cosmos was the cloning hype. The bottom line is that clones and cloning and cloners are going to stick around provided that there are gamers who want to play and few products to please them. The online FPS genre is practically nonexistent within audiogaming, so it only stands to reason that you would see a spike in this field. Notice that no one is going around cloning space-invader type stuff? Hypothetically, and this is only an opinion so you can take it or leave it as such... I believe @turtlepower hit the nail to some degree with post 10 in saying that the real issue here is one of lack of innovation. So lets hammer the nail in and see if it goes... Ultrapower may have been a pile... I only messed with it for about two hours and never really went back. What it provided, however, was an alternative to audioquake and RTR that was desperately needed. People want to beat each other up on a regular basis because "insert random reasons here." Some people just need a stress reliever after a hard day of school or work; others are trying to escape abusive relationships. Some just believe life sucks and then you die. Whatever the case we don't have anything that even comes close in audiogaming to equall what sighted gamers have at their disposal, and we've made even fewer attempts in the field of FPS games than in any other genre.Swamp was an absolute hit because, though it started off as a fantastic joke it dared to reach new heights and gave people who had some experience with FPS games something new to try. FPS as a concept has obviously been around for a long time, but can you imagine if Tank Commander or Shades of Doom had co-op or counter-op modes you could play online, or even a separate sandbox mode that you could enable that would let you try out different concepts such as King of the Hill, Capture the Flag... etc? Perhaps give you the chance to tweak your enemies in some respect? Change their health? Speed? Accuracy? Weapon and method of attack? Number of enemies on the map? Swamp gave the player a chance at going mostly solo or teaming up with people to undertake massive projects. It gave you items to find. It gave you different types of enemies to face. It gave you secret maps to explore. It allowed for interaction between players. It gave people the chance to feel helpful. It drove gamers to try and obtain as much reputation and skillpoints and experience as possible to see what the final outcome might actually be like, even if there really was no true final outcome.So here we are now; Swamp is suffering, RTR is practically dead, ultrapower is a tabu subject and clones is the word of the last 3 or so years. Audioquake? Does anyone still do that? People want to try something brand spanking new so desperately freaking bad that they'll go for a clone rather than wait for someone to step up to the plate that can deliver an awesome concept, because who knows how long that's gonna take. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493538/#p493538 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea I think the problem is the fact that we put way too much attention on the originality of sounds, sourse code, etc instead of the game simply being good. For instance, bloodbath is, if Charlie is to be believed, a game written from scrach, many things were probably rewritten, and so on. And, of course, Charlie did the absolutely the same mistakes other FPS developers did. BAd mechanics, focused on the amount of weapons instead of the quality of the gameplay, and so on. But then let's look at for instance btb. Now I never actually got to play any original or official version of BTB, but from what I did see, it actually had pretty good mechanics, it had the chance to be fun and challenging, and it didn't have bullshit levels and stats like UP did. So I unironically think that BTB was better not only than UP, but also than bloodbath. And before someone gets into full blown keyboard warrior mode, I know that BTB used stolen code, and all that other things that happened. But first, Mason is just as much to blame for the sourse code being stolen as Ivan because of personal responsibility, and more importantly, and average gamer doesn't play games to get off to how original the code / sounds are, he plays the game to has some fun. Just keep that in mind. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493484/#p493484 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Even a non-innovative concept can have its day in the sun. Take, for example, Balloon Master. When it first came out, I was quick to say that I thought it was fun. It's not the kind of fun that sustains itself over time, and the pricing model made me take a huge step away, but that's a topic for another day. What I'm saying is, even the most cynical among us can probably manage to cut a game some slack if there's something about it that's worth checking out. True clones, or unauthorized forks, do not fall under this category, because changing a couple of values and calling something your own doesn't make it good, and anyone with a modicum of common sense can see that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493466/#p493466 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
2020-01-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Blind angel 444 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea New games always. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493447/#p493447 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Good point. You don't need to mention that it's not a clone in your game introduction topic. I mean, nobody assumes a game is a clone as soon as it comes out. If you really feel the need to mention that, probably your concept is the same as some other game at which point you might want to get a bit more creative with the game and then release. The problem is actually that many people want to develop a game nowadays just so they can brag about it, even if first of all not only is development on it's own not for everyone and isn't easy at all, in addition to that you need good ideas if you want to create games. It takes good programming knowledge, creative writing and usually researching of many different topics before you start working on a game. Big companies of course have separate teams for all of this, but that is why making audio games is not easy after all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493445/#p493445 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Right? So like I have a new game and it's not a clone but the mods might ban me because it looks like a clone and you really should check it out before you judge it because it's not a clone and I keep repeating myself about how it's not a clone because you really need to understand that it's not a clone even if you think it is a clone...Almost every new releases topic I see nowadays... I'm surprised someone hasn't made a song called it's not a clone, then some clone versions pop up all over youtube... I reiterate, I don't know what I want anymore... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493442/#p493442 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Yeah, @4 is right. Even if a game isn't a clone, the same old stale concepts keep circulating around here. I'm not justifying the fact that whenever a new game is released, people are quick to go hahahahaha rofl give me popcorn, but I think that a lot of those sentiments, though misguided, come from the fact that people are frustrated and want to see something new.And, if your projects are truly not clones, then why should you be afraid to post them? If it were me, if people were hurling vitreal at my latest release, sure, it would suck, but I'd use that as fuel to prove them wrong. There's almost nothing quite as satisfying as being right, especially when others are making ridiculous, unfounded claims. It's a rush for me, though I realize not everyone is like that. In any case, no matter whether you get a kick out of it or not, watching someone choke on their own ignorance is fun for even the most mild-mannered of people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493424/#p493424 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Yeah, @4 is right. Even if a game isn't a clone, the same old stale concepts keep circulating around here. I'm not justifying the fact that whenever a new game is released, people are quick to go hahahahaha rofl give me popcorn, but I think that a lot of those sentiments, though misguided, come from the fact that people are frustrated and want to see something new.And, if your projects are truly not clones, then why should you be afraid to post them? If it were me, if people were hurling vitreal at my latest release, sure, it would suck, but I'd use that as fuel to prove them wrong. There's almost nothing quite as satisfying as being right, especially when others are making ridiculous, unfounded claims. It's a rush for me, though I realize not everyone is like that. In any case, no matter whether you get a kick out of it or not, watching people choke on their own ignorance is fun for even the most mild-mannered of people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493424/#p493424 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea I hate clones because of that reazon. I only, and only that only, for the sake of my live, want some innovation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493403/#p493403 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea I don't know what I want anymore... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493374/#p493374 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea Just bring some innovation to the genre and nobody will complain. People are mostly tired of playing the exact same games. I agree fully though that some people just say clone with no proof or anything, that's very annoying and should not be done unless a game is very obvious. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493375/#p493375 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Re: Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea New game URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493373/#p493373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea
Do you want a clone, or do you want an idea The orginal post is below: But, I'd like to quickly say first and foremost, that this is not meant to target you specifically. It's meant to show my opinion on this whole situation. People are going to agree, and people are going to disagree. If you have another viewpoint, feel free to post below. Originalpost content *** Hello all,So I've noticed lately, that whenever someone attempts to release a new game, people's immediate claim is, "oh look! It's a clone! Quick! Get the moderators!" Now, the first thing I think is, wait. Maybe it is one. Then I think, it'd be most likely obvious, wouldn't it? But then, things get interesting. I feel like I've been seeing lots of new, fascinating games in a clone's genre, and people will immediately assume it's a clone, just because the game acts similarly, uses similar keystrokes, or has similar sounds. If it is an FPS, people will immediately converge on the developer and attempt to compare it to Redspot, Scrolling Battles Pro, Ultrapower, the Killer, and older FPS's out there. If it's a building game, people will try to call it a clone just because the data formatting of maps is similar, or uses sounds from similar libraries. Even if the sourcecode was legally obtained from the orginal developer, there are some sinnical people out there that are still willing to call it out for being cloned or using similar code. Now, let me toss this rhetorical question out there. Do you want a clone, or a new release? If it's a new release, think first before declaring that it's a clone. You don't know that for sure. Let the moderators who are in charge of AG.net, deal with the situation. There is no need whatsoever to call a new release out, just because it has similarities. I honestly think it's about time we got some nej games, and if this continues, who knows what developers will do. In fact, I almost tut developing my projects because I was scared that someo would think I must've cloned it off of something.So please, if you think something's a clone, just contact the moderators, there's no reason to cause extra unnecessary drama on the actual forum topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/493367/#p493367 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
