Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears this is some cursed capitalism i tell you whatI'm not going to go too much into this right now because I just glanced over the thread but this kind of surveillance is essentially yet another attempt for those in power to control people. Reminds me a lot of what amazon was trying to do in its warehouses.A random thing I was reminded of in regards to manufacturing - as the computer age marches forward, Intellectual Property, being an idea, not a physical thing, is growing more and more vulnerable to being leaked. In order for corporations to keep control they have to continue to distribute their resources across their workers in a way that they can't just claim this IP for themselves and make their own stuff. If we gain the power to do that they lose everything. So they are growing increasingly more hostile to anyone who stands in that way, including the collectivization of factory workers who could, together, possibly put the manufacturing process together and reverse engineer the product and build their own.imho the sheer power of internet information distribution can overcome them (look at how much of a failure going after piracy in the internet era has been, for example) but in the process they will only grow more and more vicious. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447499/#p447499 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears this is some cursed capitalism i tell you whatI'm not going to go too much into this right now because I just glanced over the thread but this kind of surveillance is essentially yet another attempt for those in power to control people. Reminds me a lot of what amazon was trying to do in its warehouses.A random thing I was reminded of in regards to manufacturing - as the computer age marches forward, Intellectual Property, being an idea, not a physical thing, is growing more and more vulnerable to being leaked. In order for corporations to keep control they have to continue to distribute their resources across their workers in a way that they can't just claim this IP for themselves and make their own stuff. If we gain the power to do that they lose everything. So they are growing increasingly more hostile to anyone who stands in that way, including the collectivization of factory workers who could, together, possibly put the manufacturing process together and reverse engineer the product and build their own. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447499/#p447499 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears this is some cursed capitalism i tell you what URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447499/#p447499 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears I am definitely among those who hates capitalism for the right reasons. I hate what it does to people (devalues those on the bottom). I hate what it does to the people on top (basically makes them feel invincible). I loathe that it has absolutely no human wellness variable; if you want proof of this, look at big pharma. Why exactly is anyone being allowed to make thousands of percent profits at the expense of the lives, livelihoods and happiness of other people?I don't want to be rich. I'm not bitter that I'm not rich. Frankly, I want a life I am relatively happy to live, and the knowledge that, while working is something I wish to do and intend to do, it's literally not going to be a job I slave over which will eventually kill me. If I somehow get rich either by selling a novel I'm writing, or by hitting it big in a band, or by some other means, I will not stop hating capitalism; in fact, I'm probably one of those people who will keep their family from going without, but who will otherwise help others as much as possible with what I do have. If I end up so that I'm no longer on the bottom, I'll continue to try and help those less fortunate.I feel like capitalism's fatal flaw is that it incentivizes getting more currency above anything else. It does this, as you pointed out, at the expense of other people. If I get ahead, you get behind, or vice versa. And that turns my stomach. Why can't we both get a little ahead by finding needs and filling them? Why can't we both get a little ahead by forming systems that serve those around us, instead of just being good little drones and serving the system without complaining too loudly?Nah. I'm thirty-five, and while I've definitely see the sort of person you're talking about, Aprone, I am definitely not one of that sort. And when I find such a person, I usually commiserate with them, but I also usually try and explore their reasons for hating the system. And it's true...many of them just hate that they aren't higher up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447347/#p447347 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears I completely agree with the snowball effect, that eventually puts a small group in almost total control. I'd also say that every system eventually ends in a similar way. Regardless of an economic system, political system, game system, or what have you... the one thing they have in common is that some will find ways to sway it in their direction, thus giving themselves more power and others less. When systems are truly balanced, people reject them because they correctly feel unfair.It seems to be a trend with the 20-somethings to complain about capitalism, and as I've spoken to several I continue to hear the same statements without much to back those up when questioned. I feel like there must be some popular TV show or something that originally fed them a lot of their lines, and they only know enough to repeat them back. This clearly doesn't cover everyone, but man oh man does that describe the bulk of the people I've encountered.I also hear those same people complain about the places they work, and because those are personal complaints, they tend to actually elaborate when questioned. They have surprisingly similar statements, basically boiling down to not feeling like they can make a difference where they work, and complaining about the corporate hierarchy that puts others high above them. The company likely has thousands or tens of thousands of workers, and as a result of having so many people, there are tiers of management to keep things all in order. When asked about an ideal job, they tend to describe small startups with a dozen or so employees. Somewhere where they have a pretty big say in how things are done, because they are nearly 10% of the people working there.I believe their anti-capitalism views and their complaints about seeming everywhere they work, are both a very different issue. To me, they are just upset about being late to the party.Any economic system will end the same way, where some people have managed to grab much of the power/control and the masses don't really get a say in what happens. We see it today in capitalism because it's been up and running for a while before we got here (were born), and anyone who says another system doesn't suffer this same fate is terribly naive in my opinion. Humans have the incredible ability to examine systems and exploit them. Throughout history each attempt at a different economic systems resulted in a small portion of the population finding a way to rig the system in their favor. Multiplayer games have been essentially testing thousands of variations for their own game worlds, and no matter what's been tried, they all suffer the same fate after enough time. I've even been seeing people dismissing the idea of votes, in general, because they can devolve into simple popularity contests. Yes any system can be abused and exploited, even something as simple as a vote. If we stop using everything that Can be exploited, what exactly do we do then?The people who believe they would benefit by swapping modern capitalism out for another system, would do equally well if we just started over with capitalism again. Being in any of the systems during the startup and earlier stages is a huge blessing. You have far more control and are a part of how the thing establishes itself. Give it enough generations and the newer people on the scene will be born into a world that's already been set in it's ways by those who came before. Wealth/power/control/influence (fill in your preferred word based on the system) will have already been building up with certain people making them untouchable by the time the new kiddos are born.Those idealized startup companies the 20-somethings tell me about, to them, are the solution to the soulless corporate giants they are forced to work for now. Assuming those small startups survive, they'll grow and gain more locations and employees. Expanding to 10 times the workers means you're going to have to divide up management, and tiers will naturally form, even if a place tries to Call them something else. You will never have a building of 1000 people operate the same as it did when it was 12 people sitting on bean bag chairs pitching ideas for what should be on their website. Did the business suddenly become evil as it gained employees and grew, no. It simply grew out of it's baby stage and continued on it's natural life cycle. Being one of the first few dozen people is always going to feel different than being worker number 999 who is just being hired in.If some new school is built and the first wave of students are voting for their student council president, it would probably be an enjoyable experience. People would actually pay attention to the issues and goals presented by each candidate. None of the kids know each other, or not well at least, so you're starting fresh. When the very same school holds another election 4 years later, it likely won't
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/447262/#p447262 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears If its true that walls have ears in factories in the future, be careful not to fart while you are working in there. It might be heard by the ears of the wall and reported it as a bio chemical attack. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446883/#p446883 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Aprone, I like the point you're getting at, and in general I agree with you. Cities actually make sense, but cities and capitalism are not intrinsically linked...or rather, they don't have to be.The issue with capitalism, in my book, is that because of the way it's designed, it incentivizes money over value. If you have more of a currency - and ninety percent of that currency is not real, remember - then you cease to actually deal with the validity or merit of the person who possesses it. Flip it around, and the more money you have, the more you can do with it, while the inverse is true. You end up with a snowball effect; the people on top stay there because nothing can bump them off or invalidate their votes or money, and the people on the bottom can work sixty-hour weeks and it doesn't make a difference because they no longer really have any sort of say in what happens. Their votes, as it were, no longer matter; they just do what the big fish tell them, or they die.In its infancy, capitalism was not a terrible idea. I doubt anyone could have foreseen what ended up happening with it. But the thing is, it has happened, it is happening, and there's no denying this. Capitalism has run away with itself, in the same way that the potential for corruption ran away with itself in communist Russia and the like.Your example, though, sounds a good deal like socialism to me, over capitalism. People are essentially deciding usefulness for the community with voting power and, to a lesser extent, with productivity. Results are speaking for themselves when food x is more popular than food y, or recipe 1 takes off while recipe 2 does not. That needn't be capitalistic.There will be a few people in virtually any system who put in little effort and try to maximize what they get back. I don't think this is an apt criticism of any system.I guess what I'm trying to say is that now that we've seen capitalism really turn ugly, I think there's no denying that it needs to change. And we've determined that this runaway-train effect, or snowball effect, will probably persist in perpetuity unless checks and balances are inserted and then maintained. Here's the problem though. No one is going to give that up now that they've got what they want. No one is going to voluntarily pass out their billions to the masses in order to fight the more rampant effects of a system gone horribly wrong. This is why I'm hoping and praying for technology which will make the need for this artificial scarcity business diminish bit by bit. We rely on the people at the top because they ultimately decide what's available and how much we have to pay for it. If, in time, we can once more provide some of these things ourselves, then we can take some of their power away without actually hurting anyone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446880/#p446880 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears I'll start by admitting that I only skimmed the posts, because a few were a little lengthy. I'm seeing some misunderstandings about capitalism, that I actually ran into recently in a real life discussion. It seems to stem from the very low number of people who study how systems came into being, and instead focus on the negative side-effects of systems that are long since established.A city, for example, is a great idea. Focus a large population into a small area, where space efficiency is key. By having so many consumers in a small area, less waste per-person is generated than in more rural areas. Of course a person could just focus on some of the negative side effects that Can arise within a city, that aren't really problems with the original city idea. Crime can flourish within a city in ways it cannot if you live in a more rural area. The importance of space efficiency means that the cost for space can climb higher and higher. Homelessness can spiral out of control since the hurdle to get back on your own feet is higher in a city than it is elsewhere. It's easy to find ways humans have exploited an idea/system, and criticize the original idea too harshly.Let me lay out a hypothetical situation, where we pretend "money" was never a thing.We find ourselves on a large island with a few thousand people. At first people do a descent job of dividing up the tasks, and we all work together so we don't die. It won't take long before some people stand out as being lazy freeloaders, while other people work extra hard to get things done. There is no concept of money, at all, but things need to be organized and decisions need to be made to keep the island running. Voting seems like the most fair way to handle things, and being generally upstanding folks, everyone agrees this is how we will decide things.So some of the farmers propose different crops they can try to grow on the island. A vote is being held to decide between farmer Joe's plan (of potatoes and carrots), and farmer Ted's plan (of onions and corn). As people are deciding how to vote, someone makes an important speech. They explain that 10 people in the community have been half killing themselves to keep the island running smoothly, and they deserve to have 2 votes each instead of 1. After all... they have been more useful (to the island) than the average person. It is also argued that 10 of our laziest and most worthless people probably shouldn't have a vote at all, since they mostly just cause trouble and sit on their butts all day. They aren't useful, and don't help us as an island.Well being the kind and fair people that we are, we decide that it isn't fair to deny anyone a vote, but we also agree that if people help more than they should have more of a say in how things run. So the next problem we have, is how to decide how many votes each person should have! We have to take so many things into consideration (how many hours they work, how vital the work is, how many others could do the job instead), that it gets pretty overwhelming. We want it to be fair, but it's very hard to really make a true list of what makes 1 person more useful than another.Eventually it is decided that everyone will vote on who is more useful. It's an elegant solution to a very complex problem, but the beauty of it is that it's all centered around the people voting. On the island it actually becomes a form of voting that nearly everyone participates in, feeding constant data around the island about who or what is deemed useful.The farmers each grow the crops they believe will be best, and the community votes to support them as they receive food. We started writing out little notes on leaves to keep track of votes, similar to how we started out putting votes in ballot boxes in our first meetings. A carpenter builds a few different types of chairs, and as people come to take them the votes clearly show him which of the chairs people feel is the most useful to the island, and the worst of them, he simply stops building. In an effort to be more useful, the cooks tweak and test variations of their most highly voted meals, hoping to find variations that will receive even more votes.Rather than everyone originally going with 1 farmer's plan, each of the farmers have been doing their own thing. As years passed, farmer Joe received far more votes than the other farmers as he passed out his produce. A few people had firmly believed in this farmer's plan back at the beginning, and invested effort into helping him with establishing himself. From farmer Joe's perspective of the island, those people were very useful and he rewarded them with votes.Essentially this is how the entire system functions on a day to day level. People look at the island from their own unique perspective, and hand out votes based on what they feel makes the island a better place. The usefulness of things i
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears I'll start by admitting that I only skimmed the posts, because a few were a little lengthy. I'm seeing some misunderstandings about capitalism, that I actually ran into recently in a real life discussion. It seems to stem from the very low number of people who study how systems came into being, and instead focus on the negative side-effects of systems that are long since established.A city, for example, is a great idea. Focus a large population into a small area, where space efficiency is key. By having so many consumers in a small area, less waste per-person is generated than in more rural areas. Of course a person could just focus on some of the negative side effects that Can arise within a city, that aren't really problems with the original city idea. Crime can flourish within a city in ways it cannot if you live in a more rural area. The importance of space efficiency means that the cost for space can climb higher and higher. Homelessness can spiral out of control since the hurdle to get back on your own feet is higher in a city than it is elsewhere. It's easy to find ways humans have exploited an idea/system, and criticize the original idea too harshly.Let me lay out a hypothetical situation, where we pretend "money" was never a thing.We find ourselves on a large island with a few thousand people. At first people do a descent job of dividing up the tasks, and we all work together so we don't die. It won't take long before some people stand out as being lazy freeloaders, while other people work extra hard to get things done. There is no concept of money, at all, but things need to be organized and decisions need to be made to keep the island running. Voting seems like the most fair way to handle things, and being generally upstanding folks, everyone agrees this is how we will decide things.So some of the farmers propose different crops they can try to grow on the island. A vote is being held to decide between farmer Joe's plan (of potatoes and carrots), and farmer Ted's plan (of onions and corn). As people are deciding how to vote, someone makes an important speech. They explain that 10 people in the community have been half killing themselves to keep the island running smoothly, and they deserve to have 2 votes each instead of 1. After all... they have been more useful (to the island) than the average person. It is also argued that 10 of our laziest and most worthless people probably shouldn't have a vote at all, since they mostly just cause trouble and sit on their butts all day. They aren't useful, and don't help us as an island.Well being the kind and fair people that we are, we decide that it isn't fair to deny anyone a vote, but we also agree that if people help more than they should have more of a say in how things run. So the next problem we have, is how to decide how many votes each person should have! We have to take so many things into consideration (how many hours they work, how vital the work is, how many others could do the job instead), that it gets pretty overwhelming. We want it to be fair, but it's very hard to really make a true list of what makes 1 person more useful than another.Eventually it is decided that everyone will vote on who is more useful. It's an elegant solution to a very complex problem, but the beauty of it is that it's all centered around the people voting. On the island it actually becomes a form of voting that nearly everyone participates in, feeding constant data around the island about who or what is deemed useful.The farmers each grow the crops they believe will be best, and the community votes to support them as they receive food. We started writing out little notes on leaves to keep track of votes, similar to how we started out putting votes in ballot boxes in our first meetings. A carpenter builds a few different types of chairs, and as people come to take them the votes clearly show him which of the chairs people feel is the most useful to the island, and the worst of them, he simply stops building. In an effort to be more useful, the cooks tweak and test variations of their most highly voted meals, hoping to find variations that will receive even more votes.Rather than everyone originally going with 1 farmer's plan, each of the farmers have been doing their own thing. As years passed, farmer Joe received far more votes than the other farmers as he passed out his produce. A few people had firmly believed in this farmer's plan back at the beginning, and invested effort into helping him with establishing himself. From farmer Joe's perspective of the island, those people were very useful and he rewarded them with votes.Essentially this is how the entire system functions on a day to day level. People look at the island from their own unique perspective, and hand out votes based on what they feel makes the island a better place. The usefulness of things i
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears I hate capitalism... really learning a lot from this topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446850/#p446850 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears The question is, what steps can / should we take now? And the answer seems to be "meh," or "find ways to safely experiment to refine ideas", which is kinda the point of having states and cities etc, but those are kinda all conglomorating into an indistinguishable glom of oligopolies, so (I always want to think "oligopoly" starts with an a. Dagnabbed Great Vowel Shift. >.< ) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446821/#p446821 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears 13, you bring up some valid points. There are probably answers, and this would require a huge shift from our current way of life that it probably would take a long time to implement successfully. I do think it is within the realm of possibility; however, and would be something worthy of striving for. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446814/#p446814 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Laptops seem like a poor example, since the components require complex, machine-processed components and materials from all around the world. In theory, an individual could indeed build that for you as a gift, but that would require an adventure that would make one heck of a roadtrip movie. All those inspirational video clips from the 90s about kids building computers from soda cans were not about kids building Xboxes, more like enormous CPUs with serious limitations. I mean, the factory ears in the OP are being developed because of how difficult and labor-intensive it is to build these sorts of things.Which brings us back to money. The whole idea behind currency is that bartering can result in lengthy, complex, time-dependent quest-chains just to obtain a loaf of bread, whereas agreeing on a single unit for comparing value to simplifies things so much that it's been reinvented all around the world numerous times, whether the units are coins or shells or blocks of salt or cocoa beans. Post-scarcity does change things up tremendously, but tremendously enough that you can always find someone willing to do what you need just because you asked? My post-scarcity, moneyless marysuetopia story has a lot of handwaves I still haven't gotten around to actually thinking through, and it does involve a fundamentally less selfish civilization than ours, but iirc it hasn't quite gone so far as everyone actively serving each other pro bono. Or rather, when people do things like that, it looks suspiciously job-like, with people hanging out at relevant locations and acting more like retail or customer service employees.I'm of two (at least) minds on innovation vs need. On the one hand, having all your needs met does result in more time and resources to devote to interests. The example that comes to mind is Isaac Newton, and that sort of natural scientist who occasionally comes up with a world-changing theory. On the other hand, necessity is the mother of invention, and pure free time is, in my experience, hellish. I accomplished far more in high school than college, in terms of achievement / time, even though college was far less demanding in many ways. On the other other hand, "needs" is a fuzzy concept and people have this weird tendency to treat the precise order of things on Maslow's hierarchy as gospel.. And why am I comparing high school to college? Post-college is even less demanding. I own my home, so SSI is enough to live on if you subtract college debt (and fix the climate leaks that is driving my electric bill through the roof -_-). You'd think that infinity free time, plus no financial squeeze would result in lots of things getting done, even if it would leave out the more expensive projects. Apparently my brain doesn't work that way, and instead this leads to infinity hours consisting almost entirely of agonizing over nothing getting done. Work sucks, but at least it's something.Still, lots of world-changing innovations came from those who ^had time and resources to blow on pet projects. ^Many of the rest were military projects (what you thought astronomy was just for the lulz and not for pre-modern navies?). IDK, I don't feel like there's enough evidence to decisively go either way on how that would work out in general. There's enough evidence to say it'd be awful for me, though, so I'd need much stronger evidence - say, one of those UBI experiments has press-stoppingly exciting results, which afaik hasn't happened yet. (Although, most of the proposed UBI experiments haven't happened yet, either. Those I've heard of seem to have different outcomes depending on hard-to-predict circumstances or decisions. Need more data.)I have to wonder what would happen if, tomorrow, post-scarcity aliens showed up and offered to share their least weaponizable tech, with the main rule being "don't weaponize anything". Say it's excellent medical technology, maybe transportation, and some manufacturing tech way better than 3d printers, something like Star Trek's replicators, if not quite so OP. What happens next? The aliens stick around to be sure we don't wind up with a distribution crisis, like what causes there to still be hunger in a world where food production is effectively post-scarcity. Heck, their Clarketech drones fix the food distribution problem, along with delivering healthcare on demand. What happens next, keeping in mind the vastness and diversity of humanity and that a homogenous response is unlikely? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446754/#p446754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears As I understand socialism, it's giving production into the hands of the government, and that's where I disagree. Putting most things in the hand of government means it is doomed to fail, or it is used as a mechanism for control.What I would do is let the people who enjoy working on automation do their thing, and there are fortunately enough people in the world that someone is going to love doing whatever needs to be done. IN fact, in time, people probably won't need much government at all, which would be a good thing. This would turn it more into a libertarian society than anything else.Also, yes, most money isn't real. That's why it is bound to fail, probably sooner rather than later. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446749/#p446749 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Yup. And that's socialism in a nutshell, really. Because that guy who helps you landscape your yard may need help fixing his sink, or may want something else from you that you can provide. It's a matter of finding a need and filling it. But it's not hard currency, is my point. That guy isn't saying "pay me right now or I'm not working". He's saying "Sure, I'll help you, but if I need x, can I count on you?".Fun fact: almost 90% of the world's money is not real.As in, it's virtual/digital. Most of it has been generated by interest, not by actual debt. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446741/#p446741 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Say hello to our robot overlords!You can still have capitalism in a post-scarcity economy. The currency just becomes time. To use your example of landscaping, yes, the sod, the truck, and the dirt are all free, but those two guys who spent four hours helping with your lawn will ask you for a compensatory service in exchange. Not really a bad system. AT least people will be doing what they like to do, rather than doing it out of necessity. So, eight man-hours of lawncare might run you eight hours of social work, or something similar. Hell, one of them might really need the social work so will value your work at a greater value than his four hours of help, so you might need to supply two hours in return.There is a philosophy called Ubuntu, which goes along the principle that everyone works toward the common good four hours out of the week, the rest is spent doing whatever they want.You can learn more at https://ubuntuplanet.org URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446739/#p446739 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears How to put this:Innovation as a result of capitalism is definitely a thing that happens; I can't and won't deny that.But innovation doesn't die if you take out capitalism. They're not inextricably linked.In fact, it can be argued that if people's basic needs were met, if technology continued to expand to enough of an extent that automation became a commonplace thing, and 3d printing, and all the rest, you'd get to a point where the great minds of the world, instead of being stuck in trucks or labs or cubicles or holding mops all the time, would be freer to think of things, improve things, and innovation might explode in a good way.I'm going to put forth a really far-out scenario here. Work with me.My laptop doesn't actually cost money. In fact, nothing does.My laptop is made of all kinds of moving and non-moving parts, made from plastic, metal and a whole host of other things. It's a complex technological marvel. Every piece of it had to be created, then assembled by one or more people. A lot of labour went into this thing.But that's the key. It's labour. And material acquisition, of course.Said materials are either 1. available in nature or 2. can be synthesized with technology.So here's my scenario.A woman I know wants to build me a laptop. All of her basic needs (food, shelter, etc), are met, so she has no immediate need of money.She could conceivably source the parts herself, or build them herself with the right know-how, then assemble them, and present me with the laptop for no charge.Or, to use a simpler example that I spoke to my dad about:If you want to landscape your front yard, let's say you need sod, a truck full of dirt and two people to help out. If everyone's basic needs are met, you can grow your own sod or go get it from someone who has, you can get dirt from wherever you get your dirt, and you can deliver it. If people voluntarily do not ask you to pay for their time, then you could landscape your yard for free.What's my point here?Things don't cost money. They cost materials, labour and time. Capitalism has convinced most of us that time costs money, labour costs money and material also costs money. Capitalism continues to insist that we have less and less of all of those things, so it asks us to pay more and more for them. It's all a fabrication (no pun intended).Obviously, capitalism isn't going anywhere anytime soon, but it is self-destructing, and I'm positively gleeful about it. It can't maintain itself forever.I don't need to go to Cuba or any other socialist country in order to know how it would work, though if I really did want to take that sort of advice, I'd probably go to Denmark, Sweden or another Scandinavian country. They're not perfect, but they're doing the whole socialist thing pretty well, IMHO. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446716/#p446716 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Dudes, I just ate and do not have room for the popcorn this show will require, or the marshmallows the flames can roast. Can we put this off for, idk, 8 hours?Also a huge, huge amount of stuff that makes blindtech possible is funded by policies that fall under the banner of socialism. The stupidly high prices we have to deal with come primarily from capitalism, although the union of the two probably makes it much worse than it would be if it was all one or the other, cost-wise. However, many of the technologies involved are the results of capitalism. Black and white it is not. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446698/#p446698 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Jayde the reason your on this forum is because of capitalism. Someone had the idea to build the phone or computer that your using. A socialist is a person with no head. Oh and Jayde it isn't hurting people it is the governments of those countrys and I really don't care about other countrys only mine. So take your socialist ass to cuba and stay there and then tell me how you like it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446684/#p446684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Socialist, actually, not communist.And the reason is because capitalism has only really been entrenched for a few hundred years, and it's destroying the world. Do some in-depth study on it.And it's not that I don't want to work. I'd love to work. I'm at work right now, as it happens, though it's a really, really slow afternoon today, which is why I'm so active on the forum over the last few hours. No, indeed. It's not that I don't want to work. It's that I don't think that the job you have should be what defines you and ultimately kills you. Work should be a thing you do to actually fill a need, not a thing you to because you'll die if you don't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446390/#p446390 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Jade take your comunist bollsome were else why would you not want to work? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446373/#p446373 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears I'm not a fan of monitoring your work force. But I -am a fan of greater automation. Means fewer jobs available, but in the end, that's a good thing. The sooner capitalism self-destructs, IMHO, the better. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/446350/#p446350 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears Well, when it comes to monitoring the workforce it may depend on [what company your working for]... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/445699/#p445699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
Re: In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears When you put it like that I thought that they were going to listen to the workers etc. But they might sneak a few microphones among the microphones which detect fault to do that, who knows? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/445696/#p445696 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears
In Factories Of The Future, The Walls Have Ears As reported by [arstechnica]:The term "Industry 4.0" is thrown around quite a bit lately in some circles, with IoT and machine learning being used on assembly lines and factories to improve efficiency and crunch data to mitigate problems and production flow. At Micron's memory chip fabrication facility, the entire manufacturing area is blanketed with thousands of electronic detectors and microphones which intently listen for the subtle shifts in sounds along the assembly line which can indicate wear and tear on bearings or components, or a problem with a particular part. This is combined with machine learning networks which learn what an optimal system sounds like, and then automatically flags deviant sounds for maintenance or investigation to reduce downtime, with the spectrographic data being represented as a sonar waterfall. But thats not all, machine learning can also be used to rapidly inspect circuit boards for defects on the assembly line with computer vision and neural networks, further reducing the need for people to actively sit there and inspect thousands of boards.The future of manufacturing is inching its way closer to a state where tools may one day be able to deploy and manufacture all manner of things autonomously, with sophisticated tools and frameworks for diagnosing and using them that could provide all manner of new opportunities. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/445570/#p445570 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
