Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo The Dwarfer wrote:You can argue that my opinion does Danny no good, but yours, Ethins, Jace, Musicalmen, none of those do those of us any good who see the situation for what it is and hold fast to our knowledge and opinions of it.All I was trying to say was that Danny's past doesn't matter now, not in the context of this forum anyway, because he just wants to leave. He knows how much his reputation has tanked, and how little forgiveness he expects to receive. And in response to that, we have to pick apart his intentions. I don't see the point because he'll soon be gone and will never see your last criticisms.Now if Danny had no interest in leaving but simply left his apology at "I really want to do better," Then I could understand more of the criticisms, since he could, potentially, be leaving the door open for bigger and badder things to come. We could throw things like "actions speak louder than words," and "I'll believe it when I see it," and other helpful, harsh, and perhaps snide remarks at him. But he knows that none of that will help him, and that it is a waste of our time to say those things for whatever reasons. Whether he actually means that or not, it's a good enough reason for me to respect my distance.Perhaps some of you were, or still are, angry because he is potentially shutting you out and ignoring everything from post 1 onwards. He's running away like a coward, perhaps, so you are in a desperate mission to get through to him and help him, or expose him, or whatever you feel you must do, before it's too late. If not in this thread, then I've seen this pattern in other threads. Metaphorically speaking, a horse is beaten to death, and then trampled a few times over so that it's, what, 5 times deader. Why?I do understand the notion that one thing leads to another, and before you know it, a debate, argument, flame war etc. is at hand that was never really intended, but just happened. I get that, I do. I am also working hard, though admittedly not successfully, at trying to figure out what started the arguments I get involved in and trying not to repeat the same mistakes. Like I said, I am not often successful, and as is often the case, I am not proud of myself for contributing to it. But my visions of throwing sticks and stones at someone as they try to run away got the better of me, and that's what I perceived here. I can't just sit and watch that happen in good conscience. But since this debate seems to have fizzled out, I will finally respect those who have let it go, and drop the matter myself. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427219/#p427219 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Changing something as hard as an addiction or lifestyle is very very difficult, especially if you never asked to have it. I think change is possible, but I have no clue how to get there. Accepting blindness? Fixing this addiction I have? I have no clue how I can change it. But I know it is possible. I have tried to break the addiction cycle many times, sometimes more successful than others. You can think of it 2 ways. First way, every time you fail it damages your credibility and weakens your ability to do better next time. That makes sense, because you are use to getting knocked down, so your motivation decreases. But, way 2, each time you try, you are working the muscle of strength. You know how when you stretch for 10 seconds you can reach a certain distance to your toes, but the next time you do it, you can reach a little further? That's what I am talking about. Now for that to happen, it requires that muscle to be used often. You can work at it, but then neglect it and then it goes back down. But just like you get sore after workout and stretching becomes exhausting and painful, so does fighting the addiction. You break the cycle, then you rest for a little, then you try to break again. But you are still sore from putting all of that energy into the last cycle break, so this one isn't as well performed. And that's the problem I have. Is getting sore after a workout and not being able to push through a second one to continue strengthening that muscle. As for accepting blindness? It's been 10 years, I'm hoping one day in my 20s or something I magically accept it, because that is a huge huge issue I have trouble understanding that I can change. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427208/#p427208 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Changing something as hard as an addiction or lifestyle is very very difficult, especially if you never asked to have it. I think change is possible, but I have no clue how to get there. Accepting blindness? Fixing this addiction I have? I have no clue how I can change it. But I know it is possible. I have tried to break the addiction cycle many times, sometimes more successful than others. You can think of it 2 ways. First way, every time you fail it damages your credibility and weakens your ability to do better next time. That makes sense, because you use to getting knocked own, so your motivation dexreases. But, way 2, each time you try, you are work the muscle of strength. You know how when you strech for 10 seconds you can reach a certain distance to your toes, but the next time you do it, you can reach a little further? That's what I am talking about. Now for that to happen, it requires that muscle to be used often. You can work at it, but then neglect it and then it goes back down. But just like you get ore after workout and strching becomes exosting and painful, so does fighting the addiction. You break the cycle, then you rest for a little, then you try to break again. But you are still sore from putting all of that energy into the last cycle break, so this one isn't as well performed. And that's the problem I have. Is getting sore after a workout and not being able to push through a second one to continue strengthening that muscle. As for accepting blindness? It's been 10 years, I'm hoping one day in my 20s or something I magicly accept it, because that is a huge huge issue I have trouble understanding that I can change. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427208/#p427208 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Changing something as hard as an addiction or lifestyle is very very difficult, especially if you never asked to have it. I think change is possible, but I have no clue how to get there. Accepting blindness? Fixing this addiction I have? I have no clue how I can change it. But I know it is possible. I have tried to break the addiction cycle many times, sometimes more successful than others. You can think of it 2 ways. First way, every time you fail it damages your crdibility and weakens your ability to do better last time. That makes sense, becasue you use to getting knocked own, so your motivation dexreases. But, way 2, each time you try, you are work the muscle of strength. You know how when you strech for 10 seconds you can reach a certain distance to your toes, but the next time you do it, you can reach a little further? That's what I am talking about. Now for that to happen, it requires that muscle to be used often. You can work at it, but then neglect it and then it goes back down. But just like you get ore after workout and strching becomes exosting and painful, so does fighting the addiction. You break the cycle, then you rest for a little, then you try to break again. But you are still sore from putting all of that energy into the last cycle break, so this one isn't as well performed. And that's the problem I have. Is getting sore after a workout and not being able to push through a second one to continue strengthening that muscle. As for accepting blindness? It's been 10 years, I'm hoping one day in my 20s or something I magicly accept it, because that is a huge huge issue I have trouble understanding that I can change. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427208/#p427208 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo TheDwarfer, Ironcross, thank you for sharing your experiences.Ironcross, since you're bowing out, I will leave you be. We are not going to see eye to eye on this, and your vested interest is so small that you're not sure where you're even going with it now. I'm very sorry about all the stuff you and your family have gone through, though, because for everything I might say about people's struggles not always being their fault or whatnot, it can still be utterly ruinous to others. I feel that.TheDwarfer, I feel I'm stopping well short of personally attacking you. I'm shredding your words, not your person. I really don't have a quarrel with you as an individual and definitely do not want to see you punished or run off for any of this. I really don't like what you're doing, but that's as far as it goes.When someone I know is going through some sort of crisis, whether it's very new or whether it's something they've struggled with for years, if I face it head-on, my first question is almost always, "Can I help?", and if they say yes, or if they give me an indication that they will at least be open-minded, if I try, my next question is "How can I help?" This is because I believe, to the very core of my being, that the best thing to do is to find a need and fill it. If someone says the best thing I can do for them is to listen to them cry, I'll do it. If they say they want me to help them make a psychiatric appointment, I'll do it. If they want to be distracted in a non-destructive way...well, you get the picture. I do it, because I believe that a person has to come to whatever healing they find on their own.If long periods of time go by and the person doesn't heal, I come to one of two conclusions. And here, I think, is where we differ. One conclusion, and usually the first one I jump to, is that the person is not equipped to heal. Something is missing, something is blocked, something is misfiring. Eliminate that, and improvement becomes possible. Ignore it, and all attempts will fail, fizzle or straight-up collapse. The other conclusion is that the person is dead set against healing for some reason, and this usually feeds back into conclusion #1, because most people, all things considered equal, don't want to just die or give up. If they're there, it's because things and situations and people put them there, and you have to expose the underlying issue before any progress will be made.Let's take Danny apart for a moment.You say he's not actually making any effort to change, that his apology is probably a cry for attention or, at best, the ineffectual flailing of someone who says the right things but has no real drive behind the desire to change.Okay, let's work with that. So the next question is: why?Why is he there? What has made it so that he feels unable to change? What has made it so that he feels defeated, and as if he must try and protect us from his bad behaviour? What makes him seek attention? What makes him say he wants to do better, while simultaneously admitting he doesn't know if he can?I'll tell you. It's actually pretty simple when you boil it down.You, and other friends he's got, have not, as yet, been able to alleviate whatever is wrong with him. Maybe it's psychiatric. Maybe it's environmental. Maybe it's chemical. Whatever it is, you haven't fixed it. So expecting him to go forward as if his desire to have it fixed means it's a done deal? That's just silly. The truth is, not a single one of us knows exactly what is wrong here. That probably includes Danny himself. This means that none of us, self included, are in a position to render judgments.If you don't want to be a part of making Danny better, then don't be. No one's got a gun to your head. I, for instance, don't know the dude. I don't plan to start trying to get in touch with him and spending five hours a day on the phone as his de facto therapist. But I'm also not going to waste a single second contributing to his misery. I'm not going to talk about how he's broken his word, or how he's failed in the past, because it doesn't matter. Whether or not I believe his resolve right now is irrelevant. And so is your own disbelief. Totally irrelevant. If you want Danny to be better, actively I mean, then minimize your negative impact. If you don't give a rip, then I still think it is incumbent upon you to minimize your negative impact.As a last thought, I just want to point out that the world is full of people who think their intervention is worthwhile simply because they're bothering in the first place. Most of them are wrong. They speak out of a desire to say "There. I did something" over a desire to actually fix what's wrong. And even with a true desire to fix what may be broken, many people assume that their way is best without listening to what the situation tells them. I don't even know Danny, and I can already tell you with a fair degree of certainty that kicking hi
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Since you mentioned my name in your last post, Dwarfer. I won't reveal what I've been told, because it's not my place, and to my way of thinking throwing a lot of info about Danny's life out in the open is in poor form.Let's say you were wanting to leave, and I came along and said oh Dwarfer did this, this this this this and this, after you'd asked the mods to effectively deactivate your account. You wouldn't be too happy if you found out a lot of stuff you wanted to keep private was suddenly out in the open, but, c'mon, the blindie handbook did address that point very, very nicely that all information is fair game, yet you are revealing stuffas of writing this, that I am 99% sure Danny wants to keep private. Again, put yourself in his shoes.Oh, I'm sorry, Dwarfer, you're stranged from your father due to addiction? Okay, that's sad but you're not the only person in the whole world going through that, and there's quite literally millions of people going through the exact same situation as you. Point is. Everyone copes differently. If your way of coping is to bash somebody from your first post in a thread and then argue with somebody who makes sound, logical points, then that's your coping mechanism. it's just not one that'll win you many debates. Nor is revealing personal information about people, either. How would you like it if I listed off things about you that you'd like to keep private or to yourself, only to have somebody who clamed to be your 'best friend' spill it on a forum? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427190/#p427190 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I'm going to do my best to drop out of this since The Dwarfer believes he knows Danny (when most of that was trolling and generally being a dick to him, which *does not* constitute knowing someone) and this entire argument will just keep going in circles. Clearly, its a no-win situation for both sides, because it is quite literally impossible for us to know what will happen in the future.@The Dwarfer, you braught up Danny's school situation. He tried, multiple times, to get back into school. And every single damn time, the education system failed him, and every time (pretty much) it had nothing to do with his behavior; he was the kid who was different, and the education system he was placed in didn't like people who were different, and so he was "punished" for being different. It didn't help that his credits for his 7th year didn't transfer after he was done, and they refused to transfer when he asked, and so continuing the education process *wasn't possible*. Its not like he tried once and just gave up on that. Come on, be realistic. He gave up on his games because of difficulties in his own life. Considering the shit he was doing to himself, I can't exactly blame him for that. He's not required to maintain his games constantly for everyone's enjoyment, now is he? He's the developer, he can do whatever he likes.And a little tip... I'd recommend removing the girlfriend info from your post. Just sayin'.@39, I certainly would give him kicks in the ass to get things done. In fact I did that more than once. But there is a difference between giving him a kick in the ass to *do it* and actually bashing and attacking him, which has pretty much happened in post six and beyond. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427187/#p427187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I'm going to do my best to drop out of this since The Dwarfer believes he knows Danny (when most of that was trolling and generally being a dick to him, which *does not* constitute knowing someone) and this entire argument will just keep going in circles. Clearly, its a no-win situation for both sides, because it is quite literally impossible for us to know what will happen in the future.@The Dwarfer, you braught up Danny's school situation. He tried, multiple times, to get back into school. And every single damn time, the education system failed him, and every time (pretty much) it had nothing to do with his behavior; he was the kid who was different, and the education system he was placed in didn't like people who were different, and so he was "punished" for being different. It didn't help that his credits for his 7th year didn't transfer after he was done, and they refused to transfer when he asked, and so continuing the education process *wasn't possible*. Its not like he tried once and just gave up on that. Come on, be realistic. He gave up on his games because of difficulties in his own life. Considering the shit he was doing to himself, I can't exactly blame him for that. He's not required to maintain his games constantly for everyone's enjoyment, now is he? He's the developer, he can do whatever he likes.And a little tip... I'd recommend removing the girlfriend info from your post. Just sayin'. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427187/#p427187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I'm going to do my best to drop out of this since The Dwarfer believes he knows Danny (when most of that was trolling and generally being a dick to him, which *does not* constitute knowing someone) and this entire argument will just keep going in circles. Clearly, its a no-win situation for both sides, because it is quite literally impossible for us to know what will happen in the future.@The Dwarfer, you braught up Danny's school situation. I wouldn't talk about matters lke that when you pretty much don't know shit about it. He tied, multiple times, to get back into school. And every single damn time, the education system failed him, and every time (pretty much) it had nothing to do with his behavior; he was the kid who was different, and the education system he was placed in didn't like people who were different, and so he was "punished" for being different. It didn't help that his credits for his 7th year didn't transfer after he was done, and they refused to transfer when he asked, and so continuing the education process *wasn't possible*. He gave up on his games because of difficulties in his own life. Of course he did give up on his games; considering the shit he was doing to himself, I can't exactly blame him for that. He's not required to maintain his games constantly for everyone's enjoyment, now is he? He's the developer, he can do whatever he likes.And a little tip... I'd recommend removing the girlfriend info from your post. Just sayin'. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427187/#p427187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I'm going to do my best to drop out of this since The Dwarfer believes he knows Danny (when most of that was trolling and generally being a dick to him, which *does not* constitute knowing someone) and this entire argument will just keep going in circles. Clearly, its a no-win situation for both sides, because it is quite literally impossible for us to know what will happen in the future.@The Dwarfer, you braught up Danny's school situation. I wouldn't talk about matters lke that when you pretty much don't know shit about it. He tied, multiple times, to get back into school. And every single damn time, the education system failed him, and every time (pretty much) it had nothing to do with his behavior; he was the kid who was different, and the education system he was placed in didn't like people who were different, and so he was "punished" for being different. It didn't help that his credits for his 7th year didn't transfer after he was done, and they refused to transfer when he asked, and so continuing the education process *wasn't possible*. He gave up on his games because of difficulties in his own life. Get rid of the entitlement in that part of your statement -- "He gave up on his games". Of course he did! He's not required to maintain his games ocnstantly for everyone's enjoyment, now is he? He's the developer, he can do whatever he likes.As for the girlfriend thing... don't even go there. That's territory that not even I know much about and I've known him for quite a while now. And I don't expect to know all his secrets because of the fact that I've known him pretty much I was 12. Even longer than that, in fact, though we spoke briefly before that. In fact, if I were you I'd go erase that part from your message. That's not shit you just go yapping about on public forums. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427187/#p427187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I'm going to do my best to drop out of this since The Dwarfer believes he knows Danny (when most of that was trolling and generally being a dick to him, which *does not* constitute knowing someone) and this entire argument will just keep going in circles. Clearly, its a no-win situation for both sides, because it is quite literally impossible for us to know what will happen in the future.@The Dwarfer, you braught up Danny's school situation. I wouldn't talk about matters lke that when you pretty much don't know shit about it. He tied, multiple times, to get back into school. And every single damn time, the education system failed him, and every time (pretty much) it had nothing to do with his behavior; he was the kid who was different, and the education system he was placed in didn't like people who were different, and so he was "punished" for being different. It didn't help that his credits for his 7th year didn't transfer after he was done, and they refused to transfer when he asked, and so continuing the education process *wasn't possible*. He gave up on his games because of difficulties in his own life. Get rid of the entitlement in that part of your statement -- "He gave up on his games". Of course he did! He's not required to maintain his games ocnstantly for everyone's enjoyment, now is he? He's the developer, he can do whatever he likes.As for the girlfriend thing... don't even go there. That's territory that not even I know much about and I've known him for quite a while now. And I don't expect to know all his secrets because of the fact that I've known him pretty much I was 12. Even longer than that, in fact, though we spoke briefly before that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427187/#p427187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @33 I don't even know what you're talking about. As if you offer proof most of the time? But yeah you're right in the fact I never should have said anything in this topic because I don't really have a vested interest. In my mind though, I wasn't attempting to kick Danny. I get you want to defend your friend, I would too. But are you really not just being an enabler for his behavior? You need friends in your life who will kick your ass into gear as well as support you. But if you go at this like Danny does no wrong, when he clearly is doing wrong, then you're enabling his bad behavior.OK let's talk about addiction. I can't say I personally have addiction experience, unless you count drinking too much soda. I do sort of have a family, at least an extended family who deals with alcoholism. My grandpa drank all his life, eventually, it caused his diabetes, and at 75, he had a quadroople bypass performed, which he survived only to die a week later. My 2nd cousin ended up burning his entire arm in an accident related to him being drunk at the time, and I actually don't know the entire story about that, but he sure has the deformities to prove it. My uncle has been into dope his entire life, I don't even know what all he does, weed, coke, and alcohol. If he does other stuff, I never bothered to find out. It ruined his marriage, he missed his son's graduation, and his daughter hates him. I don't even think he gets to see his grand kids because she refuses to talk to him. It caused him to have a heart attack a few years ago, he got clean after that, funny how the heart trouble stopped then. But now, while he hasn't had another heart attack, the doctors say he's having heart issues again. He lost his house when his girlfriend left him, he then lived in some house a friend or something let him stay in, but he actually got screwed regarding the property taxes (something that wasn't his fault), so he couldn't afford to stay. His mother, my grandma bought him a freaking house for a grand total of $1200, yes I typed it correctly. It was at an auction, and the town it is in is a very small one up in the mountains where my family comes from. Now, if he can keep this one, we'll see. My well, I don't even know, my grandma's brother's son, is on the streets, he's into all sorts of drugs, and been in and out of various mental health hospitals over the years. I think he's a schizophrenic or something, I honestly never see him, and enver talk to him, so I don't know all the story behind that. I do know that he generally does go off his medicine all the time, and when people do try to help him, he usually screws it up and they want him gone.So, while me, my brother, my parents, my grandparents, and most of my family on both sides are clean, there are some addicts in the family. What does that mean in this context? I'm not really sure, it's not as if I'm trying to say, actually, you know what, I don't even remember what I said in my first post of this thread, that's how much I put into it, so yeah. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427183/#p427183 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Okay, time to argue this, once again I guess.Jayde wrote:Okay, some more fun facts and perspective for you two.1. Ironcross, you're sort of reminding me of a bull who charges every time he perceives movement. For you, that movement comes in the form of the word "privilege". I spoke it, you dropped everything and chased it, and you totally missed the point. In common parlance this is called a feint. It says far more about you than me, and until or unless you actually attempt to address the points I've made, I feel pretty safe in dismissing you."2. TheDwarfer, you're doing a really excellent job of undermining your own supposed point of view. Let me explain. On one hand, you claim you have some sympathy and hope the guy gets headed in the right direction, and want to give at least a little more benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, you also felt it necessary, even given past experiences, to vent your sorta-kinda disbelief. You began the influx of doubt in this topic...an influx, I might add, which serves virtually no purpose. One day, when you encounter someone in your life with an addiction they can't kick, a neurosis they've struggled with, or some other recurring problem they are struggling with, I dare you to be this cavalier face to face with them. Listen to their voice crack. If you have a little sight or have the freedom to touch them, lay a hand on their shoulders and feel them wilt. Or, conversely, watch for the righteous anger. It'll probably have a lot of bitterness in it. What I'm trying to say is that you're doing virtually no good and plenty of harm. Your stated opinion does Danny no good, because you're foolish if you think he doesn't know where he is right now, and serves mainly to satisfy your own desire to slam someone. In this regard, and this alone, I share your pain, sir, because I'm doing precisely the same thing. The only difference is that I'm right and you aren't. I'm calling you out because your behaviour does not appear to be the result of mental illness or addiction or any other such thing. Put bluntly: you don't have any reason or excuse to justify this sort of campaign, so I'm calling you out. Now, if you do, in fact, have an underlying issue (or issues) which suggest that I am being too hard on you, or otherwise treating you unfairly, I urge you to bring them forward. Otherwise, let the guy leave. You don't have to believe his apology. No one's going to ask you to do that. But if you really aren't convinced, why the need to trumpet that fact?"Okay. First of all? This part of the post is both presumptuous and borderline personally attacking. Addiction? Yeah. I'm separated from my dad because of that. I've distanced or had to lose other family members because of that. Danny was my best friend for 4 years, and the friendship broke off because of that. So no, you're not right, and you're only being presumptuous and throwing baseless claims that you clearly don't know about me, because I've just flat out proven you wrong. I wouldn't be posting here if I didn't know Danny. I would have no stake in the matter if this were just his games. So I'm going to have to dismiss this point entirely based on the contingency that it rests on completely baseless assumptions on the character and experiences of someone you don't know, while trying to place your points at a higher moral and factual standpoint (right, and you aren't). Wow. Secondly, assuming I have an underlying issue. This is definitely personally attacking more than or at least as much as anything else. It's just another example of grasping at straws to try and justify why someone's experiences and or thought processes work differently than you. And as for his apology and letting him leave? I'm doing that. It's all good. I stated my piece in post 6, but it got argued, so I came and defended it. Then it got argued again. Then I defended it again. That's generally how arguments work. You can believe I'm wrong all you like, but in the end of the day it's really just still your opinion, and I'm sorry if you feel like someone has to be priveledged in order to expect someone who they have known to have been doing next to nothing to fix their situation for 8 years to at least make an attempt. My desire to slam someone. I again repeat that I am simply refuting attacks on my argument, and unfortunately this argument is regarding the subject at hand (this individual, and his apology). You seem to be reflecting your desire to slam people which you stated you just had, perhaps because my remarks angered you or for other reason I don't know, back on me. I can't refute someone's self reflection and how they manage it. Now let's address the doubt. I am not in fact underlying my own point, but making points based on the now, the past (which does matter quite significantly), and the future. Now, I do not believe what he is saying, because I have no reason to. This is not in bad faith (s
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo The reason I have not acted in my capacity as a mod is because I feel it would be a little bit heavy-handed to do so. I really, really don't like what's happened though, so rather than deal with TheDwarfer as a mod, I impugned his faith user to user. He didn't say anything particularly heinous. I just think it was jerkish, is all.Ironcross, you're still proving my point, and actually making it even stronger. At no point, none at all, have I demonized anyone for possessing privilege. You keep making that mistake, and I really am wondering when you'll stop. The possession of privilege is not a crime. A failure to recognize privilege isn't a crime either; at worst, again, it's sort of a jerk move to willingly turn a blind eye to it, but that's about it. If some howling leftist has convinced you that the mere possession of privilege is something you need to feel guilt about, perish the thought. Get rid of it, and re-examine the situation. I suggest only that you possess it, and you do. I do. Everyone has some of it somewhere. The only time I care is if and when the source of that privilege causes you or others (self included, for that matter) to say or do things that may hurt someone. In this case, if you haven't dealt with significant addiction or mental health issues, then you haven't been where Danny appears to be at right now. I have, at least to some extent. I'm no better than you, and I'm no worse than you. I simply have some perspective you do not have, and all that means is that I've been on the ground, so to speak, hearing someone say they don't believe my promises or apologies anymore. This is why I can tell you it doesn't help. If you really and truly didn't know it's not helpful, then your privilege has granted you ignorance. If you believed you and TheDwarfer and others like you would actually do some good, then again, your privilege is telling you that if a person tries hard enough, or just bloody well keeps their promise this time, then maybe things will be better. I'm not upset with you for not knowing, because maybe you don't have the tools. I'm upset that you're being told that you and your perspective is harmful, but rather than try and acknowledge that, you're just tied in knots about that p-word. A bull who sees movement. Re-examine that privilege. I'm confident you can do this.And to the rest of you, let me be dead clear:I don't know Danny very well at all, and I don't even know all the stuff he did, or supposedly did. I'm not going to pretend that I know the guy better than the rest of you. I walked in here ready to argue because I saw someone being kicked when they're down, and have strong reason to believe that if Danny really does want to be done with the community, he is changing his tune somewhat and wants to try and get better somehow. But hey, tell you what. If someone does grant his request, but he waltzes back in here in a couple of months with a new account and more issues to inflict on the community, we'll deal with that. I'm not at all saying he's without fault, and I'm not saying everyone deserves an unlimited supply of patience. Everyone's got their tip-over point, after all. But if nothing else, just don't contribute to the problem. If you don't want to help solve it, that's cool, but don't make it any worse, all right?Oh, right, the privilege thing. Because I don't know you all particularly well, I can't safely assume that you do not have the experiences I have. I also know you all have many, many experiences I don't. And hey, there are people out there who have been where Danny is and still think it's cool to do what's been done here. So let me make it clear. I'm not trying to stomp out your own experiences or to tell you that your experience isn't valid. At worst, I am trying to tell you that if you have been where Danny is, go back and think on how it would've felt to have people talking vague disbelief tricked out as sympathy. Wouldn't it have hurt? Wouldn't it have made you feel about two inches tall? I know that's how it would have made me feel...mostly because I'm a human being who really doesn't like disappointing people, or failure, or the realization that I screwed up again. I'd bet most people don't like that. Shame, guilt and self-loathing are pretty tough to deal with. If you don't have those issues, congratulations; I envy you. But this is why I keep coming back to "if". I'm saying it's one of two things. Either you lack the experience, or you possess the experience and just don't care about the results of your words.Hopefully that clears a few things up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427156/#p427156 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo The reason I have not acted in my capacity as a mod is because I feel it would be a little bit heavy-handed to do so. I really, really don't like what's happened though, so rather than deal with TheDwarfer as a mod, I impugned his faith user to user. He didn't say anything particularly heinous. I just think it was jerkish, is all.Ironcross, you're still proving my point, and actually making it even stronger. At no point, none at all, have I demonized anyone for possessing privilege. You keep making that mistake, and I really am wondering when you'll stop. The possession of privilege is not a crime. A failure to recognize privilege isn't a crime either; at worst, again, it's sort of a jerk move to willingly turn a blind eye to it, but that's about it. If some howling leftist has convinced you that the mere possession of privilege is something you need to feel guilt about, perish the thought. Get rid of it, and re-examine the situation. I suggest only that you possess it, and you do. I do. Everyone has some of it somewhere. The only time I care is if and when the source of that privilege causes you or others (self included, for that matter) to say or do things that may hurt someone. In this case, if you haven't dealt with significant addiction or mental health issues, then you haven't been where Danny appears to be at right now. I have, at least to some extent. I'm no better than you, and I'm no worse than you. I simply have some perspective you do not have, and all that means is that I've been on the ground, so to speak, hearing someone say they don't believe my promises or apologies anymore. This is why I can tell you it doesn't help. If you really and truly didn't know it's not helpful, then your privilege has granted you ignorance. If you believed you and TheDwarfer and others like you would actually do some good, then again, your privilege is telling you that if a person tries hard enough, or just bloody well keeps their promise this time, then maybe things will be better. I'm not upset with you for not knowing, because maybe you don't have the tools. I'm upset that you're being told that you and your perspective is harmful, but rather than try and acknowledge that, you're just tied in knots about that p-word. A bull who sees movement. Re-examine that privilege. I'm confident you can do this.And to the rest of you, let me be dead clear:I don't know Danny very well at all, and I don't even know all the stuff he did, or supposedly did. I'm not going to pretend that I know the guy better than the rest of you. I walked in here ready to argue because I saw someone being kicked when they're down, and have strong reason to believe that if Danny really does want to be done with the community, he is changing his tune somewhat and wants to try and get better somehow. But hey, tell you what. If someone does grant his request, but he waltzes back in here in a couple of months with a new account and more issues to inflict on the community, we'll deal with that. I'm not at all saying he's without fault, and I'm not saying everyone deserves an unlimited supply of patience. Everyone's got their tip-over point, after all. But if nothing else, just don't contribute to the problem. If you don't want to help solve it, that's cool, but don't make it any worse, all right?Hopefully that clears a few things up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427156/#p427156 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @34, true. I would do the same thing that he had done if a community deliberately show their disdain and outright hatred and scorn for my very existence too. Anyone ever considered that this display of hatred can drive others away? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427154/#p427154 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Something I'm wanting to knowwhere the mods at, because Dwarfers posts (to my way of thinking) break the personal attacks rule. Mods unless I missed it, you were in this topic, so I'dlike to see some action for attacking a user who is down and defenseless, or at least an even application of the rules. But that's just my 0.02@Ethin: Agreed, Jade makes some good points, but I'm coming at this as being as nautral as possible. Now. I won't divulge any of what was said, but I think everyone can quite clearly see from some posts in this topic why Danny doesn't like this community, if I were in his shoes I would feel the precise same way as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427147/#p427147 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @31, it seems that you are on a single-minded vendetta to ignore the very good points that Jade has made. It seem as though whenever he posts an argument you cannot fault, you come back with nonsense like "your a lost cause" and so on. He really isn't. You fight privilege because you believe that it is used to demonize privilege? OK. Perfectly reasonable. But needlessly taking it out on Jade and attempting to discredit his arguments with absolutely no evidence won't get you anywhere. Ive tired it, everyone has tried that, and it *never* works. If you want to prove that Jade is misusing the word privilege, prove it. If you want to make the claim that privilege does not exist, or any othe claims, I would love to see your evidence and how many people actually agree with your viewpoint, and what their according evidence is.From the first post, The Dwarfer was attacking Danny. I have no doubt that he was gaining a form of satisfaction, a form of pleasure, from the experience. He was venting his rage and anger on him. But Danny was 'down'. He was incapable of fighting, yet the Dwarfer kept on going. Despite the fact that he does not know Danny very well at all. He made conclusions that were most likely incorrect. But you didn't do anything at that point. But its the more recent posts that have sparked this little rant of mine. You both do not know Danny very well. In fact, I'd go as far as to say you hardly, if at all, know him. If there are two people who know him far, far better han the both of you combined, it would be either me first and Jace Cae second or the other way around.Now, I won't go into how privilege is simplified to 'a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.'. I'd be circling in this post if I did. But think about the definition I just gave, and *please* try to reevaluate your stance, would you? And if you can't... some actual proof, instead of claims, would be nice... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427143/#p427143 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @Jade: My point was this, and I wasn't trying to kick people if you got that impression offa my earlier posts. My point was simply: You (as a generalization, not you personally) don't know jack about Danny so shut up and stop assuming crap, mky?That was my stance. I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit back and let random internet people who don't know the OP make assumptions about Danny when they don't really know him. Okay, sure, you spoke to him on a game for a whilebut...ya don't really know him. Same for anyone over the internet, really. Sure. I've pointed this message to Jadebut I dunno Jade beyond reading forum messages. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427111/#p427111 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I sat here and wrote this huge post, then scratched it out because it will make no difference, none at all. I just feel you're a lost cause. To your credit, I don't think you're a bad person, but you just... use all the wrong methods to try to get things done, and you're not seeing what's really going on, and I can't make you see it, nor can anyone else, so it's like screaming into the wind, utterly useless.One thing though, just because I choose not to address every single point you or anyone else makes, doesn't mean I haven't seen it, processed it. I go after privilege because I believe that it is being used to demonize people for not having done something, or not having experienced something, and I feel that's wrong. I also don't see why we need to label people like that, it solves nothing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427109/#p427109 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Okay, some more fun facts and perspective for you two.1. Ironcross, you're sort of reminding me of a bull who charges every time he perceives movement. For you, that movement comes in the form of the word "privilege". I spoke it, you dropped everything and chased it, and you totally missed the point. In common parlance this is called a feint. It says far more about you than me, and until or unless you actually attempt to address the points I've made, I feel pretty safe in dismissing you.2. TheDwarfer, you're doing a really excellent job of undermining your own supposed point of view. Let me explain. On one hand, you claim you have some sympathy and hope the guy gets headed in the right direction, and want to give at least a little more benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, you also felt it necessary, even given past experiences, to vent your sorta-kinda disbelief. You began the influx of doubt in this topic...an influx, I might add, which serves virtually no purpose. One day, when you encounter someone in your life with an addiction they can't kick, a neurosis they've struggled with, or some other recurring problem they are struggling with, I dare you to be this cavalier face to face with them. Listen to their voice crack. If you have a little sight or have the freedom to touch them, lay a hand on their shoulders and feel them wilt. Or, conversely, watch for the righteous anger. It'll probably have a lot of bitterness in it. What I'm trying to say is that you're doing virtually no good and plenty of harm. Your stated opinion does Danny no good, because you're foolish if you think he doesn't know where he is right now, and serves mainly to satisfy your own desire to slam someone. In this regard, and this alone, I share your pain, sir, because I'm doing precisely the same thing. The only difference is that I'm right and you aren't. I'm calling you out because your behaviour does not appear to be the result of mental illness or addiction or any other such thing. Put bluntly: you don't have any reason or excuse to justify this sort of campaign, so I'm calling you out. Now, if you do, in fact, have an underlying issue (or issues) which suggest that I am being too hard on you, or otherwise treating you unfairly, I urge you to bring them forward. Otherwise, let the guy leave. You don't have to believe his apology. No one's going to ask you to do that. But if you really aren't convinced, why the need to trumpet that fact?3. Every argument I have made in this thread falls back on bad faith. If you can't figure that out, try a reread or three for clarification. I stand by what I said before though. If we haven't experienced a thing, then we don't have the means to actively judge it. I'm not addicted to any narcotics, so I don't know how hard it is to get off of them. Ditto alcohol. I don't have OCD, and I'm not a hoarder. I don't compulsively steal, or smoke cigarettes, or self-harm, or any such thing. I have other issues I don't really need to illustrate here, however, so I know in vague strokes how it feels to want to be better and to lack the self-confidence to fix things...to say more than once that you're going to fix something, to mean it in your bones, and to not know how, or to know exactly how and to fail anyway. If this sort of thing is outside your own lived experience, then you have the privilege of not knowing how it feels...just as some of you may identify with issues I myself do not possess. I'd never presume to tell you that if you tried hard enough, you could conquer your demons. I'd support you, sure, but talking about how your previous failures must imply that you're not trying hard enough, or that your words don't really bear any weight anymore...no, I'd never do that. I know better, because my experience doesn't grant me the right to say that. The fact that you believe otherwise is an extremely colourful example of privilege. Scream if you like, but the shoe fits, so start walking. Odds are, you've got about a mile left to go, and it's all uphill from here. But I know you can do it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427103/#p427103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Also, for anyone who follows after this, just one final piece of advice:You do yourselves discredit by talking about extremism here. This isn't extremism. It's humanitarianism. Put another way, I just don't like people being kicked when they're down. As I pointed at before, it says more about the ones doling out those kicks than it ever could about the one on the ground taking it. I fight with some of you because you're on your feet and able to stand up for yourselves. It's a fair fight. Somebody walked in here, apologized and essentially got booted in the ribs. And never mind the potential "I could have been way meaner" argument. Zero ice with me. I'm appalled, and I have no desire to hide that fact. Don't dress up your disbelief and try to tell me it's tough love. That's not really how a functional world works. You want to cause no harm, or maybe even do some good? Walk away. Turn your back. Shake your head, talk to your friends about how pathetic it all is if you really must. Bask in that privilege, because you won't have it forever, even if you do right now. It's a wonderful security blanket. But somewhere down the road, you might be the guy who's giving tired excuses. The guy who's failed three or four times to deliver on old promises or old apologies. The person who metaphorically sees weariness and disbelief when he looks at his friends after the latest screw-up. It happened to Danny. It can happen to anyone. Even you. Even me. Do you want to be given a metaphoric boot in the ribs by someone you might've respected once? Do you think that will help you get up any faster?But I know that it means that some people will give up and bail. It does mean you can't expect an unlimited supply of second chances. I hear that loud and clear. But I think we can all agree that there's only so much tough love that will help. Most people who fail more than once are already pretty well saturated with guilt, shame, anger, self-loathing and god knows what else. Trust me, all the way down, when I tell you that they really don't need one more voice telling them that they're not quite believed anymore. That's not helpful. It's destructive. Don't be that one final kick that makes a person give up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427104/#p427104 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Okay, some more fun facts and perspective for you two.1. Ironcross, you're sort of reminding me of a bull who charges every time he perceives movement. For you, that movement comes in the form of the word "privilege". I spoke it, you dropped everything and chased it, and you totally missed the point. In common parlance this is called a feint. It says far more about you than me, and until or unless you actually attempt to address the points I've made, I feel pretty safe in dismissing you.2. TheDwarfer, you're doing a really excellent job of undermining your own supposed point of view. Let me explain. On one hand, you claim you have some sympathy and hope the guy gets headed in the right direction, and want to give at least a little more benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, you also felt it necessary, even given past experiences, to vent your sorta-kinda disbelief. You began the influx of doubt in this topic...an influx, I might add, which serves virtually no purpose. One day, when you encounter someone in your life with an addiction they can't kick, a neurosis they've struggled with, or some other recurring problem they are struggling with, I dare you to be this cavalier face to face with them. Listen to their voice crack. If you have a little sight or have the freedom to touch them, lay a hand on their shoulders and feel them wilt. Or, conversely, watch for the righteous anger. It'll probably have a lot of bitterness in it. What I'm trying to say is that you're doing virtually no good and plenty of harm. Your stated opinion does Danny no good, because you're foolish if you think he doesn't know where he is right now, and serves mainly to satisfy your own desire to slam someone. In this regard, and this alone, I share your pain, sir, because I'm doing precisely the same thing. The only difference is that I'm right and you aren't. I'm calling you out because your behaviour does not appear to be the result of mental illness or addiction or any other such thing. Put bluntly: you don't have any reason or excuse to justify this sort of campaign, so I'm calling you out. Now, if you do, in fact, have an underlying issue (or issues) which suggest that I am being too hard on you, or otherwise treating you unfairly, I urge you to bring them forward. Otherwise, let the guy leave. You don't have to believe his apology. No one's going to ask you to do that. But if you really aren't convinced, why the need to trumpet that fact?3. Every argument I have made in this thread falls back on bad faith. If you can't figure that out, try a reread or three for clarification. I stand by what I said before though. If we haven't experienced a thing, then we don't have the means to actively judge it. I'm not addicted to any narcotics, so I don't know how hard it is to get of of them. Ditto alcohol. I'm not OCD, and I'm not a hoarder. I don't compulsively steal, or smoke cigarettes, or self-harm, or any such thing. I have other issues I don't really need to illustrate here, however, so I know in vague strokes how it feels to want to be better and to lack the self-confidence to fix things...to say more than once that you're going to fix something, to mean it in your bones, and to not know how, or to know exactly how and to fail anyway. If this sort of thing is outside your own lived experience, then you have the privilege of not knowing how it feels...just as some of you may identify with issues I myself do not possess. I'd never presume to tell you that if you tried hard enough, you could conquer your demons. I'd support you, sure, but talking about how your previous failures must imply that you're not trying hard enough, or that your words don't really bear any weight anymore...no, I'd never do that. I know better, because my experience doesn't grant me the right to say that. The fact that you believe otherwise is an extremely colourful example of privilege. Scream if you like, but the shoe fits, so start walking. Odds are, you've got about a mile left to go, and it's all uphill from here. But I know you can do it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427103/#p427103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Not sure what that even means, this place is the most insignificant little corner of the net you'd likely see. Also, what's the point in just dumping your little meanders here in a topic where we're having a little debate. It doesn't even have anything to do with the discussion on hand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427101/#p427101 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Damn. Glad I don’t spend much time on this forum... how has this forum not been on the news yet? News companies will go content hungry over shit like this. If any admins want some cash... look for a news outlit URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427094/#p427094 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Completely agreed with Iron Cross there. Not to mention people basing their argument on the twisting of another to fit an extreme to which the argument being made can only apply (such as implying that I see the apology as an attention grab rather than the introduction, telling me I don't get to say a certain opinion, presuming I expected he had mastered the challenge completely, and assuming that I just expected him to just do it snaplike. Also, differing prospective is not ignorance towards the world, because everyone deals and does differently. It's also not a matter of privilage to be resilient or expect a higher level of resilience out of some people. In fact, some of the most resilient people are some of the least privileged... but I will tell you that expecting forgiveness and support from a community you were an ass to is entitled and shows a limited view of the world. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427082/#p427082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Completely agreed with BS Cross there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427082/#p427082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo No, he didn't have to come here and do this. This also wasn't his first outburst, or his first apology. People tend to get so many chances before you just stop believing them. I have no dog in this hunt, as I don't really care in a sense. I do hope he can figure himself out and get to a place that's more stable and is happier for him, but the past is over and done with here. If he really wants to get out of this place, well and good.What I find interesting though is the extremist telling people not to be extreme in their reactions. That, and the whole thing about you don't get a say because you're too privileged, yeah, sorry, but no. All that word is used for anymore is to try to bust down someone's arguments without actually making valid points. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427079/#p427079 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo And quite frankly, typing something like that on a keyboard is not bravery. We've seen people do this type of thing multiple times (I won't call out specific names in public, since this is not concerning them), and then go off and continue doing the same things. You need to prove with actions what you say in order for me to take it into consideration. He has not done that, and I am the type of person who gives chances (fully) once the behavior expressed has been proven.Now, your points:1. I never spun this apology to be attention seeking. I offered that as a possibility, but noted that I did not believe it was the case. I believed the first part of it was, but that's certainly not the whole thing.2. I fully agree. Which is why my point was that he hasn't showed any attempt on his part to work on the situation, and this type of thing has happened before. This is not his first spert of remorseful behavior. He has stated in other posts that the community doesn't feel right for him, and that he needs to leave. I will grant that he hasn't posted a topic, but that doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things.3. Yes. He recognizes it. He has recognized it for years though. He recognized it before he came on a couple months ago and started throwing insults at everyone and making a fool of himself. This is another example of where your post seems to attack extremist arguments, of which I provided none. It's not a matter of snapping one's fingers and suddenly having self control. It's a willingness to work on that self control, which has never as of yet been demonstrated by this individual. "You don't get to say what you want about somebody's actions just because they pissed you off in the past, and you don't get to decide that this is a pity party just because you can't conceive or a scenario where self-control doesn't solve all problems."This is where statements become a bit paradoxical. In the same way, you don't get to decide that I was deciding that he was throwing a pity party based on my speculations if I don't get to decide he was throwing a pity party based on my conclusions on his, but then I don't get to decide that you don't get to decide that. Also... you don't get to say what you want about someone's actions just because they pissed you off? ... - except you kind of do. If they repeat this behavior again, and haven't shown any sign of change, it is still what it is. I'm sorry but that was kind of a ridiculous statement and kind of sounded like... "Hey, that's nt fair!" And to clarify the last sentence, I stated that because it's almost if not exactly like telling someone they don't have the right to express an opinion they hold on certain things, - which only is really true if the person expressing the opinion had actively pried into the private, undisclosed life of the person whom they are judging, something the law says that they really don't "get" to do. In the end, it all circles back to the reason you adversely reacted to viewpoints of myself and others - we put them out there, and it is up to the receiver to read and make of them what they can. Whether they "get" to is irrelevant.As for me? I respect most of that apology for what it was, and have at least a partially open mind about it. Do I feel he'll be back in 2 months? Certainly, but that is my opinion based on my dealings with him. And unfortunately, these sorts of opposing opinions do exist, based on everyone's interactions with someone. Unfortunately I've seen him go off and tell his friends they don't mean anything to him because they're just online, and then he says he'll go off and fix himself, then he's back in a month, and rence and repeat. I hold the opinions I do because in the years I've known him - he's been restless with the willingness to go nowhere. And that is why my opinion is and will remain that this was a rather pathetic and half baked rerun of days gone past. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427057/#p427057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo And quite frankly, typing something like that on a keyboard is not bravery. We've seen people do this type of thing multiple times (I won't call out specific names in public, since this is not concerning them), and then go off and continue doing the same things. You need to prove with actions what you say in order for me to take it into consideration. He has not done that, and I am the type of person who gives chances (fully) once the behavior expressed has been proven.Now, your points:1. I never spun this apology to be attention seeking. I offered that as a possibility, but noted that I did not believe it was the case. I believed the first part of it was, but that's certainly not the whole thing.2. I fully agree. Which is why my point was that he hasn't showed any attempt on his part to work on the situation, and this type of thing has happened before. This is not his first spert of remorseful behavior. He has stated in other posts that the community doesn't feel right for him, and that he needs to leave. I will grant that he hasn't posted a topic, but that doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things.3. Yes. He recognizes it. He has recognized it for years though. He recognized it before he came on a couple months ago and started throwing insults at everyone and making a fool of himself. This is another example of where your post seems to attack extremist arguments, of which I provided none. It's not a matter of snapping one's fingers and suddenly having self control. It's a willingness to work on that self control, which has never as of yet been demonstrated by this individual. "You don't get to say what you want about somebody's actions just because they pissed you off in the past, and you don't get to decide that this is a pity party just because you can't conceive or a scenario where self-control doesn't solve all problems."This is where statements become a bit paradoxical. In the same way, you don't get to decide that I was deciding that he was throwing a pity party based on my speculations if I don't get to decide he was throwing a pity party based on my conclusions on his, but then I don't get to decide that you don't get to decide that. Also... you don't get to say what you want about someone's actions just because they pissed you off? ... - except you kind of do. If they repeat this behavior again, and haven't shown any sign of change, it is still what it is. I'm sorry but that was kind of a ridiculous statement and kind of sounded like... "Hey, that's nt fair!" And to clarify the last sentence, I stated that because it's almost if not exactly like telling someone they don't have the right to express an opinion they hold on certain things, - which only is really true if the person expressing the opinion had actively pried into the life of the person whom they are judging. In the end, it all circles back to the reason you adversely reacted to viewpoints of myself and others - we put them out there, and it is up to the receiver to read and make of them what they can. Whether they "get" to is irrelevant.As for me? I respect most of that apology for what it was, and have at least a partially open mind about it. Do I feel he'll be back in 2 months? Certainly, but that is my opinion based on my dealings with him. And unfortunately, these sorts of opposing opinions do exist, based on everyone's interactions with someone. Unfortunately I've seen him go off and tell his friends they don't mean anything to him because they're just online, and then he says he'll go off and fix himself, then he's back in a month, and rence and repeat. I hold the opinions I do because in the years I've known him - he's been restless with the willingness to go nowhere. And that is why my opinion is and will remain that this was a rather pathetic and half baked rerun of days gone past. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427057/#p427057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo And quite frankly, typing something like that on a keyboard is not bravery. We've seen people do this type of thing multiple times (I won't call out specific names in public, since this is not concerning them), and then go off and continue doing the same things. You need to prove with actions what you say in order for me to take it into consideration. He has not done that, and I am the type of person who gives chances (fully) once the behavior expressed has been proven.Now, your points:1. I never spun this apology to be attention seeking. I offered that as a possibility, but noted that I did not believe it was the case. I believed the first part of it was, but that's certainly not the whole thing.2. I fully agree. Which is why my point was that he hasn't showed any attempt on his part to work on the situation, and this type of thing has happened before. This is not his first spert of remorseful behavior. He has stated in other posts that the community doesn't feel right for him, and that he needs to leave. I will grant that he hasn't posted a topic, but that doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things.3. Yes. He recognizes it. He has recognized it for years though. He recognized it before he came on a couple months ago and started throwing insults at everyone and making a fool of himself. This is another example of where your post seems to attack extremist arguments, of which I provided none. It's not a matter of snapping one's fingers and suddenly having self control. It's a willingness to work on that self control, which has never as of yet been demonstrated by this individual. "You don't get to say what you want about somebody's actions just because they pissed you off in the past, and you don't get to decide that this is a pity party just because you can't conceive or a scenario where self-control doesn't solve all problems."This is where statements become a bit paradoxical. In the same way, you don't get to decide that I was deciding that he was throwing a pity party based on my speculations if I don't get to decide he was throwing a pity party based on my conclusions on his, but then I don't get to decide that you don't get to decide that. Also... you don't get to say what you want about someone's actions just because they pissed you off? ... - except you kind of do. If they repeat this behavior again, and haven't shown any sign of change, it is still what it is. I'm sorry but that was kind of a ridiculous statement and kind of sounded like... "Hey, that's nt fair!"As for me? I respect most of that apology for what it was, and have at least a partially open mind about it. Do I feel he'll be back in 2 months? Certainly, but that is my opinion based on my dealings with him. And unfortunately, these sorts of opposing opinions do exist, based on everyone's interactions with someone. Unfortunately I've seen him go off and tell his friends they don't mean anything to him because they're just online, and then he says he'll go off and fix himself, then he's back in a month, and rence and repeat. I hold the opinions I do because in the years I've known him - he's been restless with the willingness to go nowhere. And that is why my opinion is and will remain that this was a rather pathetic and half baked rerun of days gone past. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427057/#p427057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo And quite frankly, typing something like that on a keyboard is not bravery. We've seen people do this type of thing multiple times (I won't call out specific names in public, since this is not concerning them), and then go off and continue doing the same things. You need to prove with actions what you say in order for me to take it into consideration. He has not done that, and I am the type of person who gives chances (fully) once the behavior expressed has been proven.Now, your points:1. I never spun this apology to be attention seeking. I offered that as a possible, but noted that I did not believe it was the case. I believed the first part of it was, but that's certainly not the whole thing.2. I fully agree. Which is why my point was that he hasn't showed any attempt on his part to work on the situation, and this type of thing has happened before. This is not his first spirt of remorceful behavior. He has stated in other posts that the community doesn't feel right for him, and that he needs to leave. I will grant that he hasn't posted a topic, but that doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things.3. Yes. He recognises it. He has recognised it for years though. He recognised it before he came on a couple months ago and started throwing insults at everyone and making a fool of himself. This is another example of where your post seems to attack extremist arguments, of which I provided none. It's not a matter of snapping one's fingers and suddenly having self control. It's a willingness to work on that self control, which has never as of yet been demonstrated by this individual. "You don't get to say what you want about somebody's actions just because they pissed you off in the past, and you don't get to decide that this is a pity party just because you can't conceive or a scenario where self-control doesn't solve all problems."This is where statements become a bit paradoxical. In the same way, you don't get to decide that I was deciding that he was throwing a pity party based on my speculations if I don't get to decide he was throwing a pity party based on my conclusions on his, but then I don't get to decide that you don't get to decide that. Also... you don't get to say what you want about someone's actions just because they pissed you off? ... - except you kind of do. If they repeat this behavior again, and haven't shown any sign of change, it is still what it is. I'm sorry but that was kind of a ridiculus statement and kind of sounded like... "Hey, that's nt fair!"As for me? I respect most of that apology for what it was, and have at least a partially open mind about it. Do I feel he'll be back in 2 months? Certainly, but that is my opinion based on my dealings with him. And unfortunately, these sorts of opposing opinions do exist, based on everyone's interactions with someone. Unfortunately I've seen him go off and tell his friends they don't mean anything to him because they're just online, and then he says he'll go off and fix himself, then he's back in a month, and rince and repeat. I hold the opinions I do because in the years I've known him - he's been restless with the willingness to go nowhere. And that is why my opinion is and will remain that this was a rather pathetic and half baked rerun of days gone past. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427057/#p427057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo And quite frankly, typing something like that on a keyboard is not bravery. We've seen people do this type of thing multiple times (I won't call out specific names in public, since this is not concerning them), and then go off and continue doing the same things. You need to prove with actions what you say in order for me to take it into consideration. He has not done that, and I am the type of person who gives chances (fully) once the behavior expressed has been proven.Now, your points:1. I never spun this apology to be attention seeking. I offered that as a possible, but noted that I did not believe it was the case. I believed the first part of it was, but that's certainly not the whole thing.2. I fully agree. Which is why my point was that he hasn't showed any attempt on his part to work on the situation, and this type of thing has happened before. This is not his first spirt of remorceful behavior. He has stated in other posts that the community doesn't feel right for him, and that he needs to leave. I will grant that he hasn't posted a topic, but that doesn't really change much in the grand scheme of things.3. Yes. He recognises it. He has recognised it for years though. He recognised it before he came on a couple months ago and started throwing insults at everyone and making a fool of himself. This is another example of where your post seems to attack extremist arguments, of which I provided none. It's not a matter of snapping one's fingers and suddenly having self control. It's a willingness to work on that self control, which has never as of yet been demonstrated by this individual. "You don't get to say what you want about somebody's actions just because they pissed you off in the past, and you don't get to decide that this is a pity party just because you can't conceive or a scenario where self-control doesn't solve all problems."This is where statements become a bit paradoxical. In the same way, you don't get to decide that I was deciding that he was throwing a pity party based on my speculations if I don't get to decide he was throwing a pity party based on my conclusions on his, but then I don't get to decide that you don't get to decide that. Also... you don't get to say what you want about someone's actions just because they pissed you off? ... - except you kind of do. If they repeat this behavior again, and haven't shown any sign of change, it is still what it is. I'm sorry but that was kind of a ridiculus statement and kind of sounded like... "Hey, that's nt fair!"As for me? I respect most of that apology for what it was, and have at least a partially open mind about it. Do I feel he'll be back in 2 months? Certainly, but that is my opinion based on my dealings with him. And unfortunately, these sorts of opposing opinions do exist, based on everyone's interactions with someone. Unfortunately I've seen him go off and tell his friends they don't mean anything to him because they're just online, and then he says he'll go off and fix himself, then he's back in a month, and rince and repeat. I hold the opinions I do because in the years I've known him - he's been restless with the willingness to go nowhere. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427057/#p427057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, then. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427055/#p427055 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @20, that's what I was trying to explain to the dwarfer. Very well-written, and good analogies. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427048/#p427048 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Agree somehow with all the posts, and I Will accept your appology, Danny. Was testing all your games, title by title. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427046/#p427046 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Okay, I just want to leap in here and say a few things, particularly from an SSW/counselling perspective, since a few of you think it's your prerogative to get inside another user's head. Let's see if the other shoe fits, shall we?1. An apology is a heartfelt _expression_ of regret or remorse for a perceived mistake. I am not a hundred percent sold on the intent behind Danny's apology, but it bears mentioning that he made it in conjunction with the wish to disappear. This makes it pretty unlikely that he's just trying to drum up attention. He didn't have to say a word in the public eye. He could've just reached out quietly to get a mod to lock his account or perma-ban him or whatever (at least one other user has done this in the past, in fact), but instead, he made it public, without knowing whether or not we'd honour his request at all. To me, that's brave, not attention-seeking in the way it's being spun by a couple of you. He risked public opinion when he didn't have to, and knowing he might not be around to see it. So I feel like the evidence points to honesty here.2. Here's something which supports that analysis. Danny isn't saying he's all better now, and he'll never screw up again. He's saying he doesn't know where he's at, only that this community is bad for him and brings out bad things in him. He is admitting he did wrong without promising not to do it again. Yet again, brave. Anyone who thinks an apology means a guaranteed end to a problem is badly deluded. Anyone who thinks recognition of a challenge results in mastery over that challenge is entirely too privileged to have a worthwhile opinion on this particular table. The facts are simple. Danny knows where he went off the rails, recognizes it, but is not confident in his ability to avoid similar mistakes. He doesn't want to hurt anyone else, so rather than hang around and test his theory and maybe find himself messing up again, he wants to go elsewhere and not do any further damage. Which leads me to my last point.3. Danny recognizes that this environment is bad for him. Alcoholics don't hang out in bars when they're trying to recover, just as one example. And for many people whose behaviour is tied to something ritualistic or dependence-based - and it feels to me that there's a strong hint of that here - sometimes external intervention is needed. Why do you think people in AA have sponsors, and why sometimes the person trying sobriety needs to reach out for help? Why do you think that sometimes, mental health patients will ask loved ones to hide or lock up certain pills? It would be lovely to suggest that self-control is absolute, but it's not. Impulse management is very real, and in some individuals it's very patchy. Again with the privilege. If you feel that it should just be a matter of getting on and doing it, you clearly haven't experienced enough of the world to be taken seriously on the topic, and any further display of ignorance targeted at another individual who is no longer doing any harm just comes across as mean-spirited and arguably spiteful.There appears to be some free-floating hostility remaining toward Danny. Given whatever he did and how he handled himself, I get this, to some extent, but that doesn't make it okay. You don't get to say what you want about somebody's actions just because they pissed you off in the past, and you don't get to decide that this is a pity party just because you can't conceive or a scenario where self-control doesn't solve all problems. We simply don't know what Danny is actually doing to help himself, but one thing we certainly do know. He's treating this place like the bar where he used to come in order to cut loose, the place where he'd start barfights and break furniture. And what he's done is to say "I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry for trashing the place and hurting people. I don't know if I can stop, so I want you to lock me out." That's a pretty solid first step if you ask me. For myself, at least, I'm not prepared to pick him apart in public (even though I was perfectly capable of doing the same to some of the rest of you...as far as I'm concerned, you bought and paid for this, and I'm not sorry). I'm prepared to accept the apology at face value and to hope he begins frequenting communities which are more conducive to his future happiness, stability and well-being. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427045/#p427045 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I don't know Danny much at all, and have no familiarity with any behavior he might have exhibited that ruined his reputation, but I'll say this much. I don't even see the point of this topic. The only thing I can see is that Danny obviously felt he had to say something, and so he said it. Whether it was necessary or not is up for debate. Whether he said it as a legit apology or just an attention/pity-seeking tactic is up for debate. Quite honestly, I would never create a topic like this because there is so little trust in this community. Nobody can be taken at their word. No matter what I say, someone will find a way to twist my words to make it sound like I have some sort of bad intention, and it makes me sad how difficult it is to convey your real intentions.Rather than discuss whether account closure or some equivalent is legal to do by forum policy, and discuss ways to actually do it if needed, we are taking it upon ourselves to debate over why he wishes his account closed in the first place. We are trying to delve inside his head and figure out his motivations and issues and whatnot. It's often hard enough figuring out your own emotions and issues. I can't see how we can figure someone else's out.No matter what his real motivations were with this topic, I don't see how they matter, because what he's asking for seems harmless. Even if I knew precisely what was going through his head when he posted, I'd still pursue closing the account. If he is attention-seeking and didn't mean a word of what he said, well what can I say? I took him at his word and someone who means nothing they say is probably better off not being here, at least until they have matured enough to realize that kind of behavior is not conducive to success. If he actually wanted his account closed, he got exactly what he wanted and everyone should be happy.If he doesn't have the self-control to keep from visiting this forum, then there's nothing anyone can do about that. An extreme lack of self-control could drive someone to do some pretty desperate things to get back into the forum. If he becomes a real nuisance, inform his ISP to ban him from this site. That seems extremely heavy-handed, and I'm pretty sure if that were actually needed, we would be having a very different discussion. So let's cool down a little, and just take him at his word. Discuss the main issue he has proposed in the present, instead of making new ones out of his past. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427027/#p427027 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I don't know Danny much at all, and have no familiarity with any behavior he might have exhibited that ruined his reputation, but I'll say this much. I don't even see the point of this topic. The only thing I can see is that Danny obviously felt he had to say something, and so he said it. Whether it was necessary or not is up for debate. Whether he said it as a legit apology or just an attention/pity-seeking tactic is up for debate. Quite honestly, I would never create a topic like this because there is so little trust in this community. Nobody can be taken at their word. No matter what I say, someone will find a way to twist my words to make it sound like I have some sort of bad intention, and it makes me sad how difficult it is to convey your real intentions.Rather than discuss whether account closure or some equivalent is legal to do by forum policy, and discuss ways to actually do it if needed, we are taking it upon ourselves to debate over why he wishes his account closed in the first place. We are trying to delve inside his head and figure out his motivations and issues and whatnot. It's often hard enough figuring out your own emotions and issues. I can't see how we can figure someone else's out.No matter what his real motivations were with this topic, I don't see how they matter, because what he's asking for seems harmless. Even if I knew precisely what was going through his head when he posted, I'd still pursue closing the account. If he is attention-seeking and didn't mean a word of what he said, well what can I say? I took him at his word and someone who means nothing they say is probably better off not being here, at least until they have matured enough to realize that kind of behavior is not conducive to success. If he actually wanted his account closed, he got exactly what he wanted and everyone should be happy.If he doesn't have the self-control to keep from visiting this forum, then there's nothing anyone can do about that. An extreme lack of self-control could drive someone to do some pretty desperate things to get back into the forum. If he becomes a real nuisance, inform his ISP to ban him from this site. That seems extremely heavy-handed, and I'm pretty sure if that were actually needed, we would be having a very different discussion. So let's cool down a little, and just take him at his word. Discuss the issues he has proposed instead of making new ones. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427027/#p427027 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Yes. But he didn't state that he wanted his account gone (topic deletions), he wanted someone to help him not be able to get on and post. He shouldn't need help with that; that is an act of self control, and with good reason it's not something higher powers can just go and do without a rule violation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427006/#p427006 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Agree with all of Dwarfer's posts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427005/#p427005 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo 13 doesn't prove any points. The first part of it attempts to justify Danny's behavior by explaining hypothetical examples of other similarly destructive behavior. It doesn't justify his.The second part states what we already know: I don't know what Danny is doing off forum, but I do know what he said and am as a result drawing conclusions.The third part of it, about the pot and the kettle, is just a you also falacy.Edit: also might I add that it shouldn't take a higher power to stop someone from actively typing in a web address... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427003/#p427003 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo 13 doesn't prove any points. The first part of it attempts to justify Danny's behavior by explaining hypothetical examples of other similarly destructive behavior. It doesn't justify his.The second part states what we already know: I don't know what Danny is doing off forum, but I do know what he said and am as a result drawing conclusions.The third part of it, about the pot and the kettle, is just a you also falacy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427003/#p427003 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo No, it's somebody (in this case a moderator/admin) using the tools they and they alone ar given, to help Danny out. He can't, as a regular user, deactivate his account. If that were the casejust think on it and think how many people would deactivate theirs over whatever issue. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427004/#p427004 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Well, at this point we're arguing opinions. What you stated above does not change mine, it only solidifies it - assuming people will think he's a child, acknowledging he's fucked up but putting it off on his environment and thusly refusing to change it, and employing someone to forcefully enact self control on him because he's "incapable" of it. All those do is solidify the 3 main points I've been pushing all along. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/427000/#p427000 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I'll chime in while watching the Cathdral Notre Dame go up in flames (seriously, check the news).@11: There's 40, 50, 60 year olds who have little to no self control, look at lottery winners who come into a shitload of money, then blow it in a year. You claim Danny needs a higher power to stop him coming back here but short of a permanent ban, or blocking the site, there's always going to be that temptation, or a random password reset. There's always going to be that temptation, so given how the forum's set up, you can't delete or deactivate your own accountit does take a 'higher power' to do something.@6: I'm going to play devil's advocate here...You have no idea if Danny is betttering himself minute by minute. You have zero idea what's going on in his head, or anyone else's head besides your own. Sure, you can take an educated guess, but you're never able to be 100% perfect. You talk about a lack of self control, and and lashing out, tantrums and abysmal behavior..but you are in fact lashing out with your post, so pot, say hello to kettle. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426999/#p426999 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo The Dwarfer wrote:Yes, but you're comparing Danny to preteens and teenagers. He is quite apparently neither. Also, for some proof:Pity seeking: the following excerpt demonstrates pity seeking behavior by way of a guilt trip. It's basically saying, that he knows people will just assume he's a child, and oh, he gets it. His reputation is just so horrible now and I guess there's just no way to fix it, and I'm not even here to try to fix it. It was not necessary in the apology, and was a sort of preempt that seemed only made to make people feel bad.danny wrote:Before you read this and assume that this is just the rantings of a child wanting forgiveness, I understand that my reputation here, and through the community is completely tanked, and I don't deserve any, nore should I have any.I disagree with this. From my POV he's saying that:* People should not disregard this post just because they may think him to be a child (I guarantee you, some people actually do think he is). This is not a surprising introduction to such an apology if he knows that people would consider him to be so, even if there is evidence to suggest otherwise.* He's admitting that, through his own actions, he's fucked up. As such, he as not wanting forgiveness. (Why would someone like him feel that he deserves any?)The Dwarfer wrote:Demonstration of his unwillingness to change and better himself:danny wrote:I have no intrest in saying my falts are in the past or that I won't make exactly the same mistakes again, which is why i'm trying to move on and leave because I know I will end up making those same mistakes again.Not sure where you got the idea or notion that this demonstrates an unwillingness to change. This is a clear demonstration of the philosophy that I posted in 6: that he knows that he is unlikely to change in the environment that AG.NET presence because half the forum (or some of it at least) are united in getting a pound of flesh out of him for his actions, and that the people who were around during the days he was very active will not let that go and opt for a "search-and-destroy" approach rather than a "wait-and-see" approach. He knows this, and is saying so. I can see why people would act that way, but I am pointing out the fact that he obviously realizes that he would only get hatred if he remains.The Dwarfer wrote:Lack of control: danny wrote:With all that said, would it be possible to deactivate my account, not to delete all the topics or anything or clear anything because I have no intrest in pretending it didn't happen, but to render me unable to use the account, possibly via a permenent ban or a password change or something? That way I won't have a temptation to come back here and remake all the same mistakes i've done over the past several years again?So a 22 year old man wants/needs a higher power to step in and temper his impulsiveness so he doesn't come back and do the wrong things... - again... - even though he knows they're wrong?Case rested.Now I do respect part of that apology. I do respect that he did state he was wrong, and that... yes at least he knows he did the wrong thing. Or, maybe he doesn't and that's just another way of soliciting pity, but I won't assume the latter because I only have clear cut evidence of the former. Either way, there you have it.Again, no idea where you got the notion that he requires a higher power to temper his impulsiveness to fly off the handle. He requires a higher power to do something he is incapable of doing -- he does not want to visit the forum ever again, as indicated in his post, and leaving his account active will increase he temptation to revisit it, and will not solve the problem(s) he is having with himself. Believe me, I know; even knowing the forum exists, and even posting very infrequently, can easily become a habit. He is requesting a higher power to deactivate or otherwise render his account unusable by him so that he can eradicate that impulse to visit the forum. It may see extreme, given his age, but he is not the first person to request such a measure. By your own logic, you are saying that every person who requests such a measure requires a higher power to temper their "impulsiveness". URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426996/#p426996 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo The Dwarfer wrote:Yes, but you're comparing Danny to preteens and teenagers. He is quite apparently neither. Also, for some proof:Pity seeking: the following excerpt demonstrates pity seeking behavior by way of a guilt trip. It's basically saying, that he knows people will just assume he's a child, and oh, he gets it. His reputation is just so horrible now and I guess there's just no way to fix it, and I'm not even here to try to fix it. It was not necessary in the apology, and was a sort of preempt that seemed only made to make people feel bad.danny wrote:Before you read this and assume that this is just the rantings of a child wanting forgiveness, I understand that my reputation here, and through the community is completely tanked, and I don't deserve any, nore should I have any.I disagree with this. From my POV he's saying that:* People should not disregard this post just because they may think him to be a child (I guarantee you, some people actually do think he is). This is not a surprising introduction to such an apology if he knows that people would consider him to be so, even if there is evidence to suggest otherwise.* He's admitting that, through his own actions, he's fucked up. As such, he as not wanting forgiveness. (Why would someone like him feel that he deserves any?)The Dwarfer wrote:Demonstration of his unwillingness to change and better himself:danny wrote:I have no intrest in saying my falts are in the past or that I won't make exactly the same mistakes again, which is why i'm trying to move on and leave because I know I will end up making those same mistakes again.Not sure where you got the idea or notion that this demonstrates an unwillingness to change. This is a clear demonstration of the philosophy that I posted in 6: that he knows that he is unlikely to change in the environment that AG.NET presents because half the forum (or some of it at least) are united in getting a pound of flesh out of him for his actions, and that the people who were around during the days he was very active will not let that go and opt for a "search-and-destroy" approach rather than a "wait-and-see" approach. He knows this, and is saying so.The Dwarfer wrote:Lack of control: danny wrote:With all that said, would it be possible to deactivate my account, not to delete all the topics or anything or clear anything because I have no intrest in pretending it didn't happen, but to render me unable to use the account, possibly via a permenent ban or a password change or something? That way I won't have a temptation to come back here and remake all the same mistakes i've done over the past several years again?So a 22 year old man wants/needs a higher power to step in and temper his impulsiveness so he doesn't come back and do the wrong things... - again... - even though he knows they're wrong?Case rested.Now I do respect part of that apology. I do respect that he did state he was wrong, and that... yes at least he knows he did the wrong thing. Or, maybe he doesn't and that's just another way of soliciting pity, but I won't assume the latter because I only have clear cut evidence of the former. Either way, there you have it.Again, no idea where you got the notion that he requires a higher power to temper his impulsiveness to fly off the handle. He requires a higher power to do something he is incapable of doing -- he does not want to visit the forum ever again, as indicated in his post, and leaving his account active will increase he temptation to revisit it, and will not solve the problem(s) he is having with himself. Believe me, I know; even knowing the forum exists, and even posting very infrequently, can easily become a habit. He is requesting a higher power to deactivate or otherwise render his account unusable by him so that he can eradicate that impulse to visit the forum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426996/#p426996 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Yes, but you're comparing Danny to preteens and teenagers. He is quite apparently neither. Also, for some proof:Pity seeking: the following excerpt demonstrates pity seeking behavior by way of a guilt trip. It's basically saying, that he knows people will just assume he's a child, and oh, he gets it. His reputation is just so horrible now and I guess there's just no way to fix it, and I'm not even here to try to fix it. It was not necessary in the apology, and was a sort of preempt that seemed only made to make people feel bad.danny wrote:Before you read this and assume that this is just the rantings of a child wanting forgiveness, I understand that my reputation here, and through the community is completely tanked, and I don't deserve any, nore should I have any.Demonstration of his unwillingness to change and better himself:danny wrote:I have no intrest in saying my falts are in the past or that I won't make exactly the same mistakes again, which is why i'm trying to move on and leave because I know I will end up making those same mistakes again.Lack of control: danny wrote:With all that said, would it be possible to deactivate my account, not to delete all the topics or anything or clear anything because I have no intrest in pretending it didn't happen, but to render me unable to use the account, possibly via a permenent ban or a password change or something? That way I won't have a temptation to come back here and remake all the same mistakes i've done over the past several years again?So a 22 year old man wants/needs a higher power to step in and temper his impulsiveness so he doesn't come back and do the wrong things... - again... - even though he knows they're wrong?Case rested.Now I do respect part of that apology. I do respect that he did state he was wrong, and that... yes at least he knows he did the wrong thing. Or, maybe he doesn't and that's just another way of soliciting pity, but I won't assume the latter because I only have clear cut evidence of the former. Either way, there you have it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426992/#p426992 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @8-9, fair enough. It is true that 22-year-old Danny is much different from a preteen Danny, yet the behavioral patterns you describe -- "a prominent lack of self control, unwillingness to change/better yourself, and a distinct undertone of attention and pity seeking" -- are the exact behaviors people come to expect from preteens and teenagers in general. Is that not true? There are those rare exceptions when a teenager is more mature than their age, but again, those are quite rare. And while my post may have been a generalization, it was nevertheless true, or accurate enough to be a valid interpretation of your post. Honestly I'm a bit confused on how post 1 exhibits the behaviors you described; while it seeks attention (as any topic does in its first post), I do not see how it exhibits a lack of self control on Danny's part or the refusal to better ones self. Would you mind justifying that with some evidence? Yes, he said he didn't want to change opinions, which is a very reasonable thing to say. He said he was leaving. Again, a perfectly fine and reasonable thing to do, especially if he feels, as he said, that this forum is not a good place for him to coexist in. (His lack of posts also suggests such a move; him posting it here is confirmation though.) From my POV it seems like your seeing things that aren't there. The pity part I understand, but you could see that in any form of apology. That's why its called an apology, is it not? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426980/#p426980 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @8-9, fair enough. It is true that 22-year-old Danny is much different from a preteen Danny, yet the behavioral patterns you describe -- "a prominent lack of self control, unwillingness to change/better yourself, and a distinct undertone of attention and pity seeking" -- are the exact behaviors people come to expect from preteens and teenagers in general. Is that not true? There are those rare exceptions when a teenager is more mature than their age, but again, those are quite rare. And while my post may have been a generalization, it was nevertheless true, or accurate enough to be a valid interpretation of your post. Honestly I'm a bit confused on how post 1 exhibits the behaviors you described; while it seeks attention (as any topic does in its first post), I do not see how it exhibits a lack of self control on Danny's part or the refusal to better ones self. Would you mind justifying that with some evidence? Yes, he said he didn't want to change opinions, which is a very reasonable thing to say. He said he was leaving. Again, a perfectly fine and reasonable thing to do, especially if he feels, as he said, that this forum is not a good place for him to coexist in. (His lack of posts also suggests such a move; him posting it here is confirmation though.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426980/#p426980 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @8-9, fair enough. It is true that 22-year-old Danny is much different from a preteen Danny, yet the behavioral patterns you describe -- "a prominent lack of self control, unwillingness to change/better yourself, and a distinct undertone of attention and pity seeking" -- are the exact behaviors people come to expect from preteens and teenagers in general. Is that not true? There are those rare exceptions when a teenager is more mature than their age, but again, those are quite rare. And while my post may have been a generalization, it was nevertheless true, or accurate enough to be a valid interpretation of your post. Honestly I'm a bit confused on how post 1 exhibits the behaviors you described; while it seeks attention (as any topic does in its first post), I do not see how it exhibits a lack of self control on Danny's part or the refusal to better ones self. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426980/#p426980 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @8-9, fair enough. It is true that 22-year-old Danny is much different from a preteen Danny, yet the behavioral patterns you describe -- "a prominent lack of self control, unwillingness to change/better yourself, and a distinct undertone of attention and pity seeking" -- are the exact behaviors people come to expect from preteens and teenagers in general. Is that not true? There are those rare exceptions when a teenager is more mature than their age, but again, those are quite rare. And while my post may have been a generalization, it was nevertheless true, or accurate enough to be a valid interpretation of your post. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426980/#p426980 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @8-9, fair enough. It is true that 22-year-old Danny is much different from a preteen Danny, yet the behavioral patterns you describe -- "a prominent lack of self control, unwillingness to change/better yourself, and a distinct undertone of attention and pity seeking" -- are the exact behaviors people come to expect from preteens and teenagers in general. Is that not true? There are those rare exceptions when a teenager is more mature than their age, but again, those are quite rare. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426980/#p426980 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @7 Yes, I could say that to multiple people here, but none of them have offered an opportunity for me to say that. Also, I am not as familiar with the behavioral patterns of other individuals on this forum. I posted post 6 as what I felt to be an appropriate response; while he did not ask us to change our opinion, he did multiple things (posting on a public forum, providing options (accept, don't accept) albeit he doesn't care which, and of course he posted this in a section of the forum which allowed for replies and did not request a moderator lock further posts). That, combined with the fact that 22 year old Danny is quite different from a still definitely young and changeable preteen, makes me see your refutation as somewhat of a straw man because it generalizes my post far more than it was intended and makes it easier to refute if looked at that way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426973/#p426973 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo I don't know that I agree with that, people can change if they wish to. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426967/#p426967 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @6, your post is quite stereotypical in that it could be applied to many people on this forum. Danny never said he was trying to change your opinion. As he used to say, people never do really change. That's pretty much true; the outer, public-facing or private-facing personality may slightly change, but you never truly change. I'm not trying to defend him, just pointing out that by posting that in the way you did, you could pretty much say good riddance to most of the 11-13 year olds on this forum, since they act just like the way he acted. They mature, sure, but do they truly ever stop acting that way? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426966/#p426966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo @6, your post is quite stereotypical in that it could be applied to many people on this forum. Danny never said he was trying to change your opinion. As he used to say, people never do really change. That's pretty much true; the outer, public-facing or private-facing personality may slightly change, but you never truly change. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426966/#p426966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Meh dude. Unfortunately this apology demonstrates more of the usual; a prominent lack of self control, unwillingness to change/better yourself, and a distinct undertone of attention and pity seeking, despite you having stated the contrary. I accept this apology in such a way that I see it is a hopeful finality, that we're done with the tantrums, lashing out, superior attitudes, and other forms of abysmal behavior, but not in such a way that I see you as a better person - in any way shape or form - for posting it.And now, for the abrupt and unnecessary conclusion of this post. Good riddance. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426962/#p426962 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo
Yes SLJ, what Danny asks is indeed possible. He requested a random password reset. As a moderator, clicking on his profile you'll see a change password link. From there it's as simple as entering and reentering the new info.That being said, I wouldn't want to make a habit of resetting or changing user credentials for the sake of liability. If you're absolutely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, sure you'd like to continueimport pyperclip #or any other clipboard module
import string
import random
pyperclip.copy("".join(random.choice(string.printable) for i in range(20)))If you don't have python, Any ol string generator will doKeep in mind you can simply reset through email if you really really want to come back. You might also want to take post 4's suggestion and throw away the reality software signature, possibly adding a little notice if for no other reason than to kill temptation and prevent others from contacting you as I sort of seem to remember you having rather strict opposition to that.Best of luck.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426922/#p426922
--
Audiogames-reflector mailing list
Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com
https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo if you want to leave that much why don't you leave and have to ask admins to deactivate your account? you know there's a signiture option that allows you to write that you won't be using this account anymore.a***n URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426907/#p426907 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Yeah, at least you apologized, other people wouldnt do that.I wish you best of luck and howp you get better in your life. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426897/#p426897 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo Hi Danny.No, I don't think it's possible to deactivate the account without deleting it.I wish you the best of luck in the future. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426891/#p426891 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Something long overdo
Re: Something long overdo They could always delete your account, it’s possible to do that without killing the posts. Honestly i think just the fact you came out and admitted you fucked up is a good thing, that takes some guts. I do have a quite good friend who was on the dmnb 1 dev team, so if danny wants i can always give a link to it. Yay for external hard drives. Lol. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/426878/#p426878 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
