Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Hi.Update, the problem really seams to be with NVDA, jaws worked fine. Does someone know any fixes?Well, the new NVDA update seams to have broken the way you interact with graphical links.One of the online games I play has something called graphical links, basically they appear as normal links, but NVDA says graphic linkk before the name.Till some days ago I could click those links but when I do that now, nothing works. Could it be the game or has NVDA broken something?Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423832/#p423832 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Hi.Well, the new NVDA update seams to have broken the way you interact with graphical links.One of the online games I play has something called graphical links, basically they appear as normal links, but NVDA says graphic linkk before the name.Till some days ago I could click those links but when I do that now, nothing works. Could it be the game or has NVDA broken something?Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423832/#p423832 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! I think the addon has a link somewhere in it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423751/#p423751 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Hmm... In that case, I need to check the Code Factory website again. I could not figure out, where to buy the addon there... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423721/#p423721 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! It's a demo. You get 7 days to try it for free, and you pay 59 euros to get the full version. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423703/#p423703 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Well, I guess, I will also just wait with updating for now. For me, the most important Addon is the Eloquence-Addon. I can't stand ESpeak. By the way. I know, it is slightly out of topic. But I checked the Codefactory website, regarding that Addon, since I only have a version, that is already a few years old. They say, it would cost around 59,00 Euros. But I could download the Addon for free. And I didn't find anything on their Website, where I could buy a license. So, how does that work now? Did they make it available for free, and just didn't update their Website? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423655/#p423655 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! @17 The problem with this approach is that you're seeing things through the wrong end of the binoculars, i.e. a very narrow view. You're not seeing, or don't wish to see the big picture, which happens to include working towards a corporate or enterprise edition. That's your prerogative, of course, but don't be too surprised if you don't get a lot of agreement with that view. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423606/#p423606 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! I'm confident we'll be able to keep SIBIAC updated, for I know this add-on is used heavily in the music production industry. It's part of my daily workflow. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423481/#p423481 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! @17, the problem with your argument is your assuming NVAccess is in charge of add-on development, if I understand you right. That's not how it works. Add-ons are maintained by people (who are most likely) unaffiliated with, and completely disassociated with, NVAccess; NVAccess does not develop add-ons. NVAccess only develops NVDA and the tools and systems it requires to function. If they make a breaking change like this, it is up to the add-on developers to keep it up to date. If that fails, well... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423478/#p423478 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! The problem is, at this point we haven't actually been given any concrete reasons for this change. Oh yes I know they've said the buz words like "security" and "python 3" and other computery wootery terms, but to be brutally honest all of that doesn't mean anything until it actually has a practical difference on the user experience.Same was true of Xp, for a long time we were hereing all these nebulous mentions of "more secure" and "new technology" without anything practical to back it up, indeed this is likely why they had to build back in so much legacy support . I will say in the case of NvdA, I'm prepared to give the maintainers bennifit of the doubt, since one thing which has always impressed me with the program, that new versions actually do have noticeable changes that make the experience better for the end user, one reason why in the case of NvdA I wouldn't at this point consider hanging on to an old version, plus it's entirely possible that the addons I commonly use will get updated anyway, in which case, no harm done.When however something is going to break, it does create an onus on the maintainers to actually give end users something of real and practical value, which I'm not seeing thus far, though of course we might well in the future. After all, there are too many companies like apple out there who will just obsolete things and under the guise of "more security" or "better technology," will quite happily scupper the user experience just to obsolete old tech so they can selll newer models irrespective of whether the newer is actually any better (anyone remember Windows vista?). Still, as I said I'm quite prepared to wait and see, since after all we won't know how broken things get or what bennifits are actually forthcoming until both the next version, and the point that people start creating newer versions of addons. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423474/#p423474 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! The problem is, at this point we haven't actually been given any concrete reasons for this change. Oh yes I know they've said the buz words like "security" and "python 3" and other computery wootery terms, but to be brutally honest all of that doesn't mean anything until it actually has a practical difference on the user experience.Same was true of Xp, for a long time we were hereing all these nebulous mentions of "more secure" and "new technology" without anything practical to back it up, indeed this is likely why they had to include so much legacy support anyway. I will say in the case of NvdA, I'm prepared to give the maintainers bennifit of the doubt, since one thing which has always impressed me with the program, that new versions actually do have noticeable changes that make the experience better for the end user, one reason why in the case of NvdA I wouldn't at this point consider hanging on to an old versio, plus it's entirely possible that the addons I commonly use will get updated anyway.When however something is going to break, it does create an onus on the maintainers to actually give end users something of real and practical value, which I'm not seeing thus far, though of course we might well in the future. After all, there are too many companies like apple out there who will just obsolete things and under the guise of "more security" or "better technology," will quite happily scupper the user experience just to obsolete old tech so they can selll newer models irrespective of whether the newer is actually any better (anyone remember Windows vista?). Still, as I said I'm quite prepared to wait and see, since after all we won't know how broken things get or what bennifits are actually forthcoming until both the next version, and the point that people start creating newer versions of addons. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423474/#p423474 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
2019-03-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : TheTrueSwampGamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users! i think that this is for everything good in the future...i don't want to be repetative, so i'm just going to say, lets wait. Lets not possibly break things, lets not break our NVDA, so, lets just make the developers of the add-ons do what they need to, and see what Python 3 brings to our favorite free screen reader. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423470/#p423470 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Apart from the previously stated end of support, which probably implies no more security fixes, remember, Python is a mainstream programming language, there will be other benifits as well, such as more sane Unicode support, from what I've heard of Python 2's Unicode implementation, it's not very good, and people are constantly trying to work around Unicode decode errors. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423455/#p423455 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Apart from the obvious end of support, which probably implies no more security fixes, remember, Python is a mainstream programming language, there will be other benifits as well, such as more sane Unicode support, from what I've heard of Python 2's Unicode implementation, it's not very good, and people are constantly trying to work around Unicode decode errors. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423455/#p423455 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! @11It's basically one of those necessary evils, like moving away from XP. If transitioning to Python 3 will make NVDA snappier/leaner, or open the door to more potential features, then I'm all for it. I believe that all of the NVDA addons you mentioned are open source as well, so others should be able to fix them even if the original developer isn't around any more. Yeah it's not a for sure thing but, at least it's something... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423450/#p423450 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! @11 This isn't being done at the whim of the developers to be like, ha ha ha, now you have to play by *our* rules. No, it's actually something that I know at first seems really meh, but is good. Hopefully, in the future, we'll start to see NVDA headed towards more security updates which will in turn allow it to become more prevalent in the work place. You can fix any addons for now by just adding the line in it's manifest file. Of course, when the time comes that there truly are incompatibilities, then NVDA may not start, may crash, may traceback quite badly and unexpectedly, so this action is not without risk. If you do it, I would recommend doing one at a time, then restarting NVDA or reloading plugins from the tools menu. This way, if you do have issues, you'll know which addon caused it without a lot of digging. Also, remember that NVDA keeps its log in %temp% so if it crashes, go there. You'll find the last log from the last time it was running I think NVDA.log.old or something like that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423446/#p423446 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Guys, it is not at all advised for you to manually update manifests in addons. Right now, yes, you can do it. However, once NVDA moves to Python 3, it could literally happens that an incompatible addon loads and completely crashes your NVDA. Then, you will be complaining and possibly would not have an alternative screen reader to fix it. Leave this to the developers, and make sure you contact everybody whose addons you regularly use before doing it manually. This is not done for no reason and for security alone, nor because they just hate some addons. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423431/#p423431 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! The addons I'm really bothered about here are the compatibility addons for programs such as Dropbox, winamp, VLc and the interactive fiction reader addon. I'm afraid this strikes me as the sort of high handed behaviour companies like apple and microsoft are renowned for and continually get flack for, since from the perspective of an end user some nebulous nonsense about "security" and "computery wootery" doesn't seem to compensate for breaking software that works perfectly well at the moment.While I don't doubt the nvdA developers will come up with some good changes in the future, possibly based on this new architecture, at the same time, there should be a way for users to update existing addons they know are secure and which still work with NvdA anyway, especially those that involve program compatibility and are used on a daily basis. Of course, I might be making a mountain out of a mole hill here, and its entirely possible the addons I use will just get updates anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423379/#p423379 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
2019-03-28
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : ammericandad2005 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users! The main addon that is most likely to be affected is audio themes 3d, due to it's developer having a less than steller reputation in the security department. in preparation for this I am going to be releasing a distribution of NVDA that already includes audio themes 3d, eloquence, and a few other addons I have that will probably break because of this update. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423358/#p423358 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! @6Like they said in the announcement, these changes are partly for security and stability. Right now addons have different kinds of version code that might not be compatible and cause stability issues, and auto-loading scripts and addons in the configuration directory is a glaring security vulnerability. With these changes people can't inject malicious addon code to be auto-loaded by NVDA, users have to manually enable addons which helps mitigate risk. The versioning is also important to keep track of bug and exploit fixes, or whether an older addon has been patched to remove a potential exploit.A lot of these add some necessary framework and process changes that could make NVDA more suitable in security concious organizations, corporate, and government agencies, not to mention provide a smoother user experience overall. Its the kind of little stuff that Jaws has paid attention to when pitching themselves to such agencies, so this should help NVDA compete on more even footing with them. I'd expect them to start enforcing those standards and breaking compatibility with non-compliant addons in the next few updates, so this is more of a heads up to developers to get in line, and to users for what to expect. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423354/#p423354 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! It's necessary because there are changes coming in the pipeline that may break many addons. The Python 3 upgrade, Python 2, the current version in use by NVDA, will lose support on January 1, 2020, a speech refactor that would allow things like sounds in place of elements on web pages, and possibly other changes. This is mainly a preparation for that, ensuring that addon authors stay up to date with NVDA releases, though the minimum version required, as far as I know, will not be bumped unless there is an addon-breaking change. Most addons on the official NVDA addons site are compatible, though, and you could always stick with an old NVDA version... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423312/#p423312 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! It's necessary because there are changes coming in the pipeline that may make many addons. The Python 3 upgrade, Python 2, the current version in use by NVDA, will lose support on January 1, 2020, a speech refactor that would allow things like sounds in place of elements on web pages, and possibly other changes. This is mainly a preparation for that, ensuring that addon authors stay up to date with NVDA releases, though the minimum version required, as far as I know, will not be bumped unless there is an addon-breaking change. Most addons on the official NVDA addons site are compatible, though, and you could always stick with an old NVDA version... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423312/#p423312 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! That makes more sense then. Thanks for explaining Slender. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423330/#p423330 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! It's necessary because there are changes coming in the pipeline that may make many addons. The Python 3 upgrade, Python 2, the current version in use by NVDA, will lose support on January 1, 2020, a speech refactor that would allow things like sounds in place of elements on web pages, and possibly other changes. Most addons on the official NVDA addons site are compatible, though, and you could always stick with an old NVDA version... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423312/#p423312 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! It's necessary because there are changes coming in the pipeline that may make many addons. The Python 3 upgrade, Python 2, the current version in use by NVDA, will lose support on January 1, 2020, a speech refactor that would allow things like sounds in place of elements on web pages, and possibly other changes. Most addons on the official NVDA addons site are compatible, though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423312/#p423312 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! It's necessary because there are changes coming in the pipeline that may make many addons. The Python 3 upgrade, Python 2, the current version in use by NVDA, will lose support on January 1, 2020, a speech refactor that would allow things like sounds in place of elements on web pages, and possibly other changes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423312/#p423312 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! so you're telling me that when I upgrade to 2019.2 when it gets released all my addons won't work unless they get this new addon compatability version number shit? Why did they think this was necessary in any way? What the hell? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423310/#p423310 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Yes, you can do that and NVDA won't bother you if the change is implemented in the future. However these versioning requirements are probably going to be in preparation for things that will actually break addons, and that adding a line to a manifest file won't fix. Note that I'm not disagreeing with the change at all, it's necessary in the longrun, but it highlights the fragmentation in the NVDA addon scene, and how there are many ancient addons that will probably never be updated, even some addons created by NVAccess itself are going to be affected by this, such as NV Speech Player/Speech Player in ESpeak, or the PC keyboard Braille Input addon. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423304/#p423304 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Yes, you can do that and NVDA won't bother you if the change is implemented in the future. However these versioning requirements are probably going to be in preparation for things that will actually break addons, and that adding a line to a manifest file won't fix. Note that I'm not disagreeing with the change at all, it's necessary in the longrun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423304/#p423304 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Yeah or in future you could just change the version number in the compatibility thingy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423303/#p423303 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! all you have to do is add one line to your manifest and its fine. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423299/#p423299 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: warning to NVDA users!
Re: warning to NVDA users! Link to the official NVDA update news [here]. Seems they're tightening security and stability by enforcing stricter version control. Wonder if that has any association with python 2 or python 3 support in the backend. From the post:NVDA will no longer automatically load custom appModules, globalPlugins and braille and synth drivers from the NVDA user configuration directory. This code should be instead packaged as an add-on with correct version information, ensuring that incompatible code is not run with current versions of NVDA. For developers who need to test code as it is being developed, enable NVDA’s developer scratchpad directory in the Advanced category of NVDA settings, and place your code in the ‘scratchpad’ directory found in the NVDA user configuration directory when this option is enabled.Also, add-ons can now specify a minimum required NVDA version, and the last tested NVDA version, in their manifest. If this version of NVDA is outside of the specified range, NVDA will refuse to install or enable that particular add-on. This version of NVDA will however still allow installing and loading of add-ons that do not yet contain Minimum and Last Tested NVDA version information at all, but upgrading to future versions of NVDA (E.g. 2019.2) may automatically cause these older add-ons to be disabled. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/423295/#p423295 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
