Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @Jayde, that was actually discussed a bit earlier in this thread, look at post 63 for his counter. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581134/#p581134 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Honest question:How do you justify what's being done to the Uyghurs? Or are you trying to pretend that it's not happening? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581056/#p581056 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @73I think the current government is very gentle. If they change to the Tang or Han government, they are more willing to use the army to express their meaning, rather than blindly explain. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581049/#p581049 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china And this is why I'm glad I can love China without loving the Chinese government.How do people explain this other than the threat it is?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … YqR4nfgyUcAnd I know there are a couple people who will read this and think of this as an post from someone who doesn't like China, so I will say it again so it doesn't get lost in translation...I do not hate China. I love its culture, traditions, food, people and many other aspects. But I do not like what the government does, and I do not love how the government tries to cover up the bad side of things and tries to make everything sound like the right thing. There is no way to say that the government and what they are doing to Hong Kong and Taiwan is right. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580915/#p580915 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china And this is why I'm glad I can love China without loving the Chinese government.How do people explain this other than the threat it is?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … YqR4nfgyUc URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580915/#p580915 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china How do people explain this other than the threat it is?https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ … YqR4nfgyUc URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580915/#p580915 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china That anti japanese thing lines up with what i read about how the japanese named street was shut down the other day. It is unfortunate. I don't think this additude is relegated ti just china though. Vietnamese venders will try to rip you off hard if they know you are a tourist, so you'd bettwe know how to bargain, and bargain hard. Oh, and watch out for beggars, if they know you frim the states, they'll pester you for money. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579933/#p579933 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @68This is what I said, and I will not fully believe in unilateral explanations.In particular, China blocked access to external networks.But I do not agree with the prison statement.When we Han people go to high school, especially in the third year of high school, the school adopts compulsory closed management and does not bring mobile phones. Except for the crazy 12-hour class a day, we go back to the dormitory to sleep, or even stay up late to do homework in severe cases.Is this more serious than prison?@70It’s not that serious. The rest of us can talk about the smog situation in China at will. Especially around 2012, we have to close the windows when we are in class. The reason is that the smog is too big. This problem does not need to be avoided, and there is no need to avoid it. Is this specifically aimed at foreigners? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579930/#p579930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @70It’s not that serious. The rest of us can talk about the smog situation in China at will. Especially around 2012, we have to close the windows when we are in class. The reason is that the smog is too big. This problem does not need to be avoided, and there is no need to avoid it. Is this specifically aimed at foreigners? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579930/#p579930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china @66, I was born in the USA, vut my dad is from vietnam, and my mother is from laos.The gb thing is ancient history at this point, and is unimportant, except to demonstrate what the chinese government is doing to other nations they consider a part of themself. Like i said earlier, i have nothing but love for the rittish. I think theyre pretty cool and we could learn a lot from them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579896/#p579896 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china An issue that strikes a little closer to home for me, as a Canadian:So we apparently have a Chinese person in custody and we're not letting them go. The Chinese have two of our citizens in custody as well, and are not letting them go.Neither side seems terribly willing to end the stand-off, and when challenged, Chinese officials basically said something to the extent of, "We've let you speak to these prisoners. If you're going to keep criticizing us, that doesn't have to keep happening. We did it out of respect, and if we stop seeing that respect, we don't have to make concessions."I'm not especially clear on why two of our citizens have been held in China for over two years, and I'm not quite sure why we've got a Chinese person in custody either.What I can say is that what's being done to the Uyghurs is pretty disgusting. I don't care what spin you want to put on protecting the people, protecting toe government. A re-education camp is basically a concentration camp, and every indication I've gotten indicates that some of them are being upgraded to a status akin to a medium-security prison. I'm not a big fan of human rights violations, and I suspect that the majority of Chinese citizens aren't cool with this either. This criticism is very much a government thing.A friend of mine, who taught for a couple of years in China, told me some peculiar stories which I find troubling. For context, this friend is a few years younger than me, white, a teacher (so well-educated) and a leftist like me.1. One day while teaching, it was very smoggy outside and she had to keep the windows closed. When a student asked her why they couldn't open the window, my teacher was later chided for mentioning the smog because smog reflects badly on the government. She was told that for next time, she should just mention that it's too hot outside or something.2. My friend was also chided by a Chinese colleague, an established, educated adult, for using a Toshiba laptop because it is of Japanese manufacture.3. She also reports having seen and heard of vandalism to Japanese automobiles by some students because there is anti-Japanese propaganda taught in schools which suggests that this sort of destruction is culturally tolerable.I have no reason to disbelieve her, and I know that her experience is not the only or definitive experience in China. However, even those situations cause a lot of concern for me, as someone who lives in a country where it's okay to criticize the government, talk about smog, own Japanese-made things, and where it's illegal to vandalize stuff, regardless of where it comes from. You combine all of that with the hush-hush attitude about things that could negatively represent the CCP, and it paints a pretty oppressive picture.I also want to take this moment to remind all of you that this is the fault of totalitarianism, -NOT COMMUNISM. A communist state does not have to be a dictatorship. A communist state does not have to contain these problematic elements. Some will, sure, but it's not a built-in part of the ideology. Anyone wanting to point at China as a reason why socialism or communism doesn't work needs to do a whole lot more research. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579897/#p579897 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china @66, I was born in the USA, vut my dad is from vietnam, and my mother is from laos. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579896/#p579896 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china All supposedly false information discarded as anti-insert country hear propaganda. I will not go so far as to say that every single fact cited in the above article is false. But the article clearly has an agenda. The fact that you could only find pro China information on this issue is highly suspect. If you cannot access both sides of the story, there is a problem, as it means you cannot understand, nore come to decisions concerning, an issue or situation.What Chyna is doing, Assimilating ethnic minorities, makes sense from a nation building perspective if their goal is to homogenized the population. This is not me condoning the actions being carried out against the Uygurs. It’s just an observation. One that increases the likelihood that this is exactly what they are doing in fact. When the United States wanted to get rid of their Indian problem, they carried out various assimilationist policies, Chipping away at their identities piece by piece. One of the institutions which helped in this was the boarding school. Natives were sent to boarding schools to be taught Anglo American Waze. They were punished for speaking their languages. I bring this up because I cannot help but draw parallels here. Something else I see in common is that in the 1960s and 70s, Scores of native women were sterilized. And now China is being accused of doing the same to Uygurs. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579873/#p579873 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @65I understand.I don't believe certain things blindly.It cannot be as good as imagined.But maybe the starting point is good.In fact, the most deadly thing about a centralized country is that when the people don’t trust the government, the country will be destroyed.Therefore, after careful consideration, the government simply prohibits people from accessing extranets.The masses do not know whether it is the government's misconduct or the malicious smear of the government by foreign media.The government can filter out information that is not good for them.The ultimate goal is to improve the credibility of the government.There is an old Chinese saying: Water can carry a boat, or it can overturn.The people are water, the government is the ship.Throughout Chinese history, there were large-scale peasant uprisings at the end of almost every dynasty.Although it is extremely unlikely to overthrow the government directly, this is a fatal blow to the government. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579871/#p579871 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china KenshiraTheTrinity wrote:@63 You know, the brittidh used to tax us, but we werent officially recognized as a part of great britain, do that inspired a great protest where people were calling them out for taxasion without representation. If the chinese goverment is leaching off of Taiwan, then they are doing exactly what the brits were doing to us back in the day.Word of advice. Don't trust anything that the news and government there tell you blindly,. As you just demonstrated, the information you receive is being filtered, with cover stories to satisfy the curiosity of anyone who hears condemning accusations from the outside. Even when i was in vietnam, i started noticing that there were a lot of news sites and vudeos i could not access anymore. That EU and USA should have access to the same news sources that you can't should make you very suspicious. Also, be careful what you say and do and research. This is why i could never make my home in vietnam. Some people here don't care avout what goes on in the news, so living there doesn't bother them, but not me. I don't like people restricting what i can read, say and do. I already seen some of that here where the parents of some kids will absolutely not allow them to stray from the family religion and would avsolutely freak out if they saw their kid with literature of other faiths. I am just fortunate that my dad isn't that kind of dad and that my grandfather passed away long before i decided that following vudhism just because my dad's side of the family did was fake belief, so i try not to take my liberties for granted, because i know that there are people who have it worse.I am sorry, what GB did to You? Where are You from? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579867/#p579867 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china @63 You know, the brittidh used to tax us, but we werent officially recognized as a part of great britain, do that inspired a great protest where people were calling them out for taxasion without representation. If the chinese goverment is leaching off of Taiwan, then they are doing exactly what the brits were doing to us back in the day.Word of advice. Don't trust anything that the news and government there tell you blindly,. As you just demonstrated, the information you receive is being filtered, with cover stories to satisfy the curiosity of anyone who hears condemning accusations from the outside. Even when i was in vietnam, i started noticing that there were a lot of news sites and vudeos i could not access anymore. That EU and USA should have access to the same news sources that you can't should make you very suspicious. Also, be careful what you say and do and research. This is why i could never make my home in vietnam. Some people here don't care avout what goes on in the news, so living there doesn't bother them, but not me. I don't like people restricting what i can read, say and do. I already seen some of that here where the parents of some kids will absolutely not allow them to stray from the family religion and would avsolutely freak out if they saw their kid with literature of other faiths. I am just fortunate that my dad isn't that kind of dad and that my grandfather passed away long before i decided that following vudhism just because my dad's side of the family did was fake belief, so i try not to take my liberties for granted, because i know that there are people who have it worse. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579859/#p579859 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china I would sympathize with the Chinese position on Taiwan more if they didn't have missiles constantly pointed at it, if they discouraged the extremists who want to invade or destroy it, and if China had not just recently been caught hacking into and steeling the secrets for Taiwan's most valuable industry (computer chip manufacturing). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579844/#p579844 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @59China blocked the website posted above and I cannot access it at the moment, but I found some content.Sorting out: Ten rumors and truths concocted by anti-China forces against Xinjiang.For a long time, overseas "East Turkistan" organizations have been linked to anti-China media and slandered China's Xinjiang affairs by concocting and spreading rumors. Like interference in China's Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet and other issues, the ultimate goal of Western interference in Xinjiang affairs is not as it preached. "Protecting freedom and human rights" is an attempt to curb China's development. When U.S. President Trump finally signed the so-called Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act, the Global Times systematically sorted out the most common rumors concocted by anti-China forces in the United States and the West. These rumors basically covered all aspects of people’s daily lives. In some Western countries, In the eyes of the media and organizations, these contents can be "separately written" to form a so-called "investigation report," or they can be used interchangeably to promote "the existence of oppression of ethnic minorities" in Xinjiang. In order to restore a real Xinjiang, this article will explain the truth about the events or fields involved in these rumors one by one.On the 19th, China International Television Station (CGTN) aired the documentary "Loving Tianshan: Memory of China's Xinjiang Anti-terrorism". Video screenshotRumor 1: "China has detained nearly a million Uyghurs in're-education camps' in Xinjiang"Truth: There is no so-called "re-education camp" in Xinjiang. The sensational terms such as "large-scale detention camp", "re-education camp" and "concentration camp" are used to call Xinjiang Vocational Skills Education and Training Center. It is the ulterior motive of some American politicians and media. practice. In fact, the vocational skills education and training center established in Xinjiang according to law is essentially the same as the “community corrections” promoted by the United States, the DDP project established in the United Kingdom, and the de-radicalization center established in France. They are all for preventive counter-terrorism and de-radicalization. And the beneficial attempts and active explorations taken.The rumor that "nearly a million Uyghurs have been detained" was originally fabricated based on two highly suspicious "studies." The first "research" was the "Chinese Human Rights Defenders Network (CHRD)" supported by the US government, which was obtained by only interviewing 8 people. Based on such an absurdly small sample "research", CHRD estimates that "at least 10% of villagers are currently detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are forced to participate in re-education camps in villages or townships, totaling 30%. Of people are in two types of camps." In this way, CHRD applied these estimated proportions to the entire Xinjiang, and then came up with the figures mentioned in the report submitted to the United Nations: 1 million people were detained in "re-education detention camps" and 2 million people were "forced to participate." Day or night re-education courses".The second "research" relied on unreliable media reports and speculation. The author was a far-right fundamentalist Christian named Adrian Zeng (Chinese name "Zheng Guoen"). According to a survey conducted by the US "gray zone" news website, Zeng Ci believes that he is "led by God" and has a "mission" against China. He is also a senior researcher on China issues at the far-right organization "Communist Victims Memorial Foundation" established by the US government in 1983.In September 2018, Zeng Ci published an article in the "Central Asia Survey" magazine, saying, "It is estimated that the total number of detainees in Xinjiang exceeds 1 million." According to the "grey area", Zheng Guoen's figure was based on a report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur-based exile media organization based in Turkey. The TV station once published an unconfirmed "number of detainees in re-education camps" allegedly "leaked" by the Chinese authorities, stating that as of spring 2018, the total number of detainees in 68 counties in Xinjiang reached 892,000. But according to the "grey area", Istiqlal TV is not an impartial news organization at all. It promotes separatism while hosting various extremists. Among them, the frequent guest who often appears on this TV station is the leader of the "East Turkistan" named Abdul Kader Yafuquan. Perhaps the cited basis is so absurd that he can't stand it anymore. Zeng Ci admits that his estimate is "indeterminate." B
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china China blocked the website posted above and I cannot access it at the moment, but I found some content.Sorting out: Ten rumors and truths concocted by anti-China forces against Xinjiang.For a long time, overseas "East Turkistan" organizations have been linked to anti-China media and slandered China's Xinjiang affairs by concocting and spreading rumors. Like interference in China's Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet and other issues, the ultimate goal of Western interference in Xinjiang affairs is not as it preached. "Protecting freedom and human rights" is an attempt to curb China's development. When U.S. President Trump finally signed the so-called Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act, the Global Times systematically sorted out the most common rumors concocted by anti-China forces in the United States and the West. These rumors basically covered all aspects of people’s daily lives. In some Western countries, In the eyes of the media and organizations, these contents can be "separately written" to form a so-called "investigation report," or they can be used interchangeably to promote "the existence of oppression of ethnic minorities" in Xinjiang. In order to restore a real Xinjiang, this article will explain the truth about the events or fields involved in these rumors one by one.On the 19th, China International Television Station (CGTN) aired the documentary "Loving Tianshan: Memory of China's Xinjiang Anti-terrorism". Video screenshotRumor 1: "China has detained nearly a million Uyghurs in're-education camps' in Xinjiang"Truth: There is no so-called "re-education camp" in Xinjiang. The sensational terms such as "large-scale detention camp", "re-education camp" and "concentration camp" are used to call Xinjiang Vocational Skills Education and Training Center. It is the ulterior motive of some American politicians and media. practice. In fact, the vocational skills education and training center established in Xinjiang according to law is essentially the same as the “community corrections” promoted by the United States, the DDP project established in the United Kingdom, and the de-radicalization center established in France. They are all for preventive counter-terrorism and de-radicalization. And the beneficial attempts and active explorations taken.The rumor that "nearly a million Uyghurs have been detained" was originally fabricated based on two highly suspicious "studies." The first "research" was the "Chinese Human Rights Defenders Network (CHRD)" supported by the US government, which was obtained by only interviewing 8 people. Based on such an absurdly small sample "research", CHRD estimates that "at least 10% of villagers are currently detained in re-education detention camps, and 20% are forced to participate in re-education camps in villages or townships, totaling 30%. Of people are in two types of camps." In this way, CHRD applied these estimated proportions to the entire Xinjiang, and then came up with the figures mentioned in the report submitted to the United Nations: 1 million people were detained in "re-education detention camps" and 2 million people were "forced to participate." Day or night re-education courses".The second "research" relied on unreliable media reports and speculation. The author was a far-right fundamentalist Christian named Adrian Zeng (Chinese name "Zheng Guoen"). According to a survey conducted by the US "gray zone" news website, Zeng Ci believes that he is "led by God" and has a "mission" against China. He is also a senior researcher on China issues at the far-right organization "Communist Victims Memorial Foundation" established by the US government in 1983.In September 2018, Zeng Ci published an article in the "Central Asia Survey" magazine, saying, "It is estimated that the total number of detainees in Xinjiang exceeds 1 million." According to the "grey area", Zheng Guoen's figure was based on a report by Istiqlal TV, a Uyghur-based exile media organization based in Turkey. The TV station once published an unconfirmed "number of detainees in re-education camps" allegedly "leaked" by the Chinese authorities, stating that as of spring 2018, the total number of detainees in 68 counties in Xinjiang reached 892,000. But according to the "grey area", Istiqlal TV is not an impartial news organization at all. It promotes separatism while hosting various extremists. Among them, the frequent guest who often appears on this TV station is the leader of the "East Turkistan" named Abdul Kader Yafuquan. Perhaps the cited basis is so absurd that he can't stand it anymore. Zeng Ci admits that his estimate is "indeterminate." B
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Taiwan was a country right? if yes, so they should selebrate it no matter who says whati'm not good at eastern geography, also not good at western one, anyways@7west did very amazing progress, and this is why some people love it, eastern still have some problems but it does not means that west haven't any URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579740/#p579740 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china @58/59, thanks. I only found out about it througj or the contraversy surrounding disney's live action remake of Mulan, because apparently they philmed in the area indicated in post 58 and thanked the chinese government for letting them shoot there. Its almost as though the camps don't matter to them, and i already said this in my first post here, but the cyber space security ordered chinese media outlets not to cover disney's libe action Mulan because of the contraversy surrounding it. I mean, why else would you do that, unless you had something to hide. If someone paid the media not to cover an issue here in the states, you can bet that thats gonna raise a lot of eyebrows, and that some upstanding journalist is going to follow a story in persuit of truth. That's just supposed to be the norm around here. Furthermore, why would you try to distence yourself from someone who knowing that it was going to upset many people, took the time to propperly thank you? That just makes you look more suspicious.Furthermore, to argue against the acceptance of minorities in China by the government, i've started seeing stories avout alterations to posters and movie scripts to minimize the presence of afrucan american actors in order to better to better appeal to the chinese audience. On top of that, i only yesterday saw a headline on an article about how a Japanese named street in china was shut down because apparently the people were getting too patriotic or something. You should know that here in the USA, we have entire districts like china town and japan town dedicated to ethnic minorities, and no government authority sees them as being unpatriotic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579635/#p579635 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @57, think about that statement and think about why that might be... Shouldn't slam people for something that's not entirely their fault. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579633/#p579633 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china 拓海 wrote:@55Where did the concentration camp come from? Is there any substantive evidence?just, wow dudehttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54277430 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579616/#p579616 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china More linksThis one Appears to be an opinion piece, but there is a lot of information contained within, especially about the forced sterilization of minorities in China.https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/15/ui … ilization/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved … inorities/ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/worl … tion.htmlU URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579612/#p579612 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/07/15/ui … ilization/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved … inorities/ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/24/worl … tion.htmlU URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579612/#p579612 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @56 I'll paste a link to an Artical here, along with its contents in case for whatever reason you’re unable to access it. I will post more articles as well in another post.https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54277430 Xinjiang: Large numbers of new detention camps uncovered in report24 SeptemberA vocational skills education centre in Xinjiang, September 2018ReutersChina says the camps are a necessary measure against terrorismChina has expanded its network of detention centres for its Uighur minority despite insisting the "re-education" system was being scaled back, a new report says.The Australian Strategic Policy Institute says there are 380 suspected facilities in the Xinjiang region - some 40% more than previous estimates.China says its aim is to tackle poverty and religious extremism in Xinjiang.But the US has likened the centres to concentration camps.Uighur model sends rare video from Chinese detentionUighurs 'detained for beards and veils' - leakRights groups say at least a million people have been incarcerated in the system.What does the report say?The report identifies 100 more detention sites than previous investigations have shown, based on analysis of satellite imagery, interviews with eyewitnesses, media reports and official documents.More than 60 detention sites were worked upon between July 2019 and July 2020, while 14 camps are still under construction, the report said.Around half of the new centres are higher security facilities, which could suggest a shift towards prison-style facilities, report author Nathan Ruser said."The findings of this research contradict Chinese officials' claims that all 'trainees' from so-called vocational training centres had 'graduated' by late 2019," he said."Instead, available evidence suggests that many extrajudicial detainees in Xinjiang's vast "re-education" network are now being formally charged and locked up in higher security facilities, including newly built or expanded prisons, or sent to walled factory compounds for coerced labour assignments."However around 70 camps have seen the removal of fencing and perimeter walls, the report added.The BBC visits the camps where China’s Muslims have their "thoughts transformed"Chinese state-controlled newspaper Global Times has since reported that ASPI contributors Clive Hamilton and Alex Joske have been banned from entering the country.Beijing has faced international condemnation for its network of detention centres which mostly house Muslim minorities.The US has placed sanctions on Chinese politicians allegedly involved and earlier this month blocked some exports it said had been made with "forced labour".The Chinese government said last week that "vocational training" was increasing job opportunities and combating poverty in Xinjiang URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579611/#p579611 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Xinjiang: Large numbers of new detention camps uncovered in report24 SeptemberA vocational skills education centre in Xinjiang, September 2018ReutersChina says the camps are a necessary measure against terrorismChina has expanded its network of detention centres for its Uighur minority despite insisting the "re-education" system was being scaled back, a new report says.The Australian Strategic Policy Institute says there are 380 suspected facilities in the Xinjiang region - some 40% more than previous estimates.China says its aim is to tackle poverty and religious extremism in Xinjiang.But the US has likened the centres to concentration camps.Uighur model sends rare video from Chinese detentionUighurs 'detained for beards and veils' - leakRights groups say at least a million people have been incarcerated in the system.What does the report say?The report identifies 100 more detention sites than previous investigations have shown, based on analysis of satellite imagery, interviews with eyewitnesses, media reports and official documents.More than 60 detention sites were worked upon between July 2019 and July 2020, while 14 camps are still under construction, the report said.Around half of the new centres are higher security facilities, which could suggest a shift towards prison-style facilities, report author Nathan Ruser said."The findings of this research contradict Chinese officials' claims that all 'trainees' from so-called vocational training centres had 'graduated' by late 2019," he said."Instead, available evidence suggests that many extrajudicial detainees in Xinjiang's vast "re-education" network are now being formally charged and locked up in higher security facilities, including newly built or expanded prisons, or sent to walled factory compounds for coerced labour assignments."However around 70 camps have seen the removal of fencing and perimeter walls, the report added.The BBC visits the camps where China’s Muslims have their "thoughts transformed"Chinese state-controlled newspaper Global Times has since reported that ASPI contributors Clive Hamilton and Alex Joske have been banned from entering the country.Beijing has faced international condemnation for its network of detention centres which mostly house Muslim minorities.The US has placed sanctions on Chinese politicians allegedly involved and earlier this month blocked some exports it said had been made with "forced labour".The Chinese government said last week that "vocational training" was increasing job opportunities and combating poverty in Xinjiang. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579611/#p579611 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @56. bruh. its verry clear that you think china is a rose garden. You are not willing to look at other people's perspectives. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579602/#p579602 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @55Where did the concentration camp come from? Is there any substantive evidence? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579584/#p579584 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china To their credit, the Christian church seeks to be thriving in China. That doesn't excuse the consentration camps found in the northwestern region though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579129/#p579129 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china To their credit, the Christian church seeks to be thriving in China. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579129/#p579129 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china yeah asking the same @50? what's the diffrent? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579118/#p579118 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @51No matter which government governs China, it cannot be separated from the system of centralization.Including the Kuomintang.I don't think the victory of the Kuomintang will do any good to China.We must know that during the Kuomintang rule, China's industrial level was almost zero, weapons and equipment were all purchased from Germany or other countries, and the air force and navy were almost zero.In addition, gang forces can be seen everywhere, the masses are not living well, and there are also phenomena of landlords exploiting farmers.In addition, the main party in Taiwan is the Democratic Progressive Party, and the Kuomintang has a weak voice.@49China is absolutely free for Christians.My grandma is a Christian.The goodness of the Chinese government to ethnic minorities makes me the Han Chinese envy.People from ethnic minorities are given preferential treatment when taking the college entrance examination, which seems to be a 20-point bonus. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579107/#p579107 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @50dont you think that google or some other company also gathers our data?this is a world trend these days URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579033/#p579033 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @50dont you think google or some other company does that as wellits a trend these days URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579033/#p579033 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @拓海But Taiwan was not part of China from ancient times. As far as I understand, Chinese only went to the island in large numbers when it was conquered by Koxinga to resist the Manchu invasion. So the Qing dynasty was the first to make it part of China. The same for Tibet, I think it was conquered by the Mongols, and again by Qing, but not by any other dynasty. The Qing also ruled Mongolia and outer Manchuria that's now in Russia, why doesn't China also try to get those territories back?I think if it wasn't for the government Taiwan would willingly join China. I don't think having a more open and free government would make China weak. During the Song dynasty when China was more open, it developed a lot of technology and became the most advanced country in the world. But during Ming when everything became more strict and closed it stagnated and was overtaken by other countries. I think if the nationalists won the civil war and China had a government like Taiwan it would have developed faster and be stronger now. Look at how advanced Taiwan, South Korea and Japan are, don't you think China would also have been like that if they followed the same system?Also, don't forget Mao Zedong was the one who tried to destroy Chinese culture and customs during the cultural revolution. The people of Taiwan were the ones who tried to save ancient artifacts and preserve the culture. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579028/#p579028 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @拓海But Taiwan was not part of China from ancient times. As far as I understand, Chinese only went to the island in large numbers when it was conquered by Koxinga to resist the Manchu invasion. So the Qing dynasty was the first to make it part of China. The sam for Tibet, I think it was conquered by the Mongols, and again by Qing, but not by any other dynasty. The Qing also ruled Mongolia and outer Manchuria that's now in Russia, why doesn't China also try to get those territories back?I think if it wasn't for the government Taiwan would willingly join China. I don't think having a more open and free government would make China weak. During the Song dynasty when China was more open, it developed a lot of technology and became the most advanced country in the world. But during Ming when everything became more strict and closed it stagnated and was overtaken by other countries. I think if the nationalists won the civil war and China had a government like Taiwan it would have developed faster and be stronger now. Look at how advanced Taiwan, South Korea and Japan are, don't you think China would also have been like that if they followed the same system?Also, don't forget Mao Zedong was the one who tried to destroy Chinese culture and customs during the cultural revolution. The people of Taiwan were the ones who tried to save ancient artifacts and preserve the culture. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579028/#p579028 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china My opinion on the chinese government? I feel like they should be changed. Someone should come over there and change the government. We should all just pull out of china and ban huawei, tiktok and the other chinese apps that spys on you and give that to the communist party. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579011/#p579011 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china OK.Here is My opinion:China is big economy, but It is bad with human rights, for example for Tibetans, Uyghurs, Christians, or practitioners of Falun gong.Last mentioned are victims of illegal organ harvest. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579002/#p579002 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china Yeah, thats where i draw the line. I mean if the mainland was actively contributing to their growth and welfare then ok, they might be obligated to comply, but if not, then why not just relinquish control do they can fend for themselves, then maybe they can collaborate once they're stronger and everyone vebefits. Its just seems counter productive to me to hold onto all this extra land if you aren't going to do anything with it, and greedy if you're just going to feed off their supplies. Thats just going to cause resentment and animosity between the peoples however you cut it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578997/#p578997 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china I read somewhere that the UK was giving asilement to citizens in Hong KKong who were born while the country was a prt of the empire. So, pretty much everyone over 24. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578992/#p578992 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @45, in the free thinking world, it's very easy to see that china does more to hinder both of them. Again, look to China's deliberately preventing Taiwan from having a voice on the international stage, or what' gone on in Hong Kong for the past year and a half or so. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578990/#p578990 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china Ok but does the chinese government do anything to help Taiwan or hongkong? I remember while watching the legend of Bruce Lee the people were complaining that neither the Chinese nor the British were willing to help them so it left them in a tough spot. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578988/#p578988 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Even if we ignore Taiwan and even Hong Kong, China has a ton of land space and hundreds of millions of citizens.I...think it can spare Taiwan and Hong Kong. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a free-thinking socialist. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578987/#p578987 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @40For China, separation of any place is a loss.One of the reasons why the West is most alert to China is china has maintained a high degree of unity since ancient times.You must know that in ancient times, having a large enough territory meant having more resources, generating more population, and greatly increasing strength.In modern times, although population has basically ceased to be a factor influencing the outcome of a war, population is still needed in economic, cultural and other aspects.In addition, the concept of great unity is a belief for China, a deep-rooted mode of thinking and a culture. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578985/#p578985 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @40For China, separation of any place is a loss.One of the reasons why the West is most alert to China is china has maintained a high degree of unity since ancient times.You must know that in ancient times, having a large enough territory meant having more resources, generating more population, and greatly increasing strength.In modern times, although population has basically ceased to be a factor influencing the outcome of a war, population is still needed in economic, cultural and other aspects. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578985/#p578985 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @40For China, separation of any place is a loss.One of the reasons why the West is most alert to China is that it has maintained a high degree of unity since ancient times.You must know that in ancient times, having a large enough territory meant having more resources, generating more population, and greatly increasing strength.In modern times, although population has basically ceased to be a factor influencing the outcome of a war, population is still needed in economic, cultural and other aspects. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578985/#p578985 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @40, to oversimplify it, it's the equivalent of a child whowon't let a toy out of their sight because they want to be the biggest kid in the room. You can play with something if it stays nearby wheere you can watch it and control it, but you'd better damned well give it back!As to why China doesn't want others acknowledging Taiwan's independence? It's the same as any big body of power that doesn't want to admit that it's wrong about anything, and also because when Chaign Kai Shek and his pro-democracy supporters left for Taiwan, it was still under Chinese rule after Japan handed it back when they lost the war. The issue has been contended ever since. And because of their unwillingness to grant Taiwan independence, the official name of Taiwan is still the Republic of China and it also appears as Chinese Taipei in other places. Even amid the pandemic when Taiwan was trying to get a seat on the UN to discuss responses, Chinakept getting in the way... and that's proven unfortunate considering how good their pandemic response was. The world could've learned a lot if Taiwan had an international voice. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578984/#p578984 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Not eaven wrong for me. I can selebrate country days on my country, E.G. American day "july 4th" in my country, just waking up with my national anthem then the American, I mean, Usonian anthem. Same with the other way around: Panamanian independence "November 3th" on the U.S. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578976/#p578976 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china I guess I'm still stuck on the question.If there are enough people in Taiwan, and enough diversified culture, and good enough reason to recognize it as its own country, why not just bloody well do it? I don't have a satisfactory answer there.Same goes for Hong Kong. I don't see why it can't be recognized as its own country.When Quebec, one of the provinces of Canada, was thinking about going independent, we had a referendum to see if this was something that was wanted. Ultimately, it didn't happen, but Canada seemed willing to grant Quebec its independence if it wanted.Looking more historically, countries like Canada and India were recognized as British colonies once upon a time, but eventually Britain realized that the country was independent enough to be its own entity, and thus recognized its independence.I'm just not seeing why China can't do the same thing.It's also fairly telling that I think most other countries besides China recognize Taiwan as its own country. I know Canada does. I have always been taught that Taiwan is its own country, closely related to China and once a part of it, but not not so much.I'm also a bit concerned at the original thrust here. If China's government doesn't want to officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation, then whatever. But why is the Chinese government trying to discourage other places from doing so? Last time I checked, the Chinese government doesn't have that authority, and shouldn't be trying to tell other countries not to celebrate the independence of a nation. It's up to an individual country how they will or will not honour a tradition, a relationship or anything else. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578972/#p578972 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china I guess I'm still stuck on the question.If there are enough people in Taiwan, and enough diversified culture, and good enough reason to recognize it as its own country, why not just bloody well do it? I don't have a satisfactory answer there.Same goes for Hong Kong. I don't see why it can't be recognized as its own country.When Quebec, one of the provinces of Canada, was thinking about going independent, we had a referendum to see if this was something that was wanted. Ultimately, it didn't happen, but Canada seemed willing to grant Quebec its independence if it wanted.Looking more historically, countries like Canada and India were recognized as British colonies once upon a time, but eventually Britain realized that the country was independent enough to be its own entity, and thus recognized its independence.I'm just not seeing why China can't do the same thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578972/#p578972 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @36, it's not quite the same thing. People in China wouldn't celebrate the taiwanese day of independence because while the UK recognizes the US as an independent country, China doesn't recognize taiwan as an independent nation. Wold it cause trouble for the government if citizens decided to celebrate it? No, but the government would tell you that it's not proper because Taiwan shouldn't be independent, so it shouldn't be celebrated. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578965/#p578965 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Third island chainCenterHawaii, USANorth endAleutian IslandsSouth endSome islands in OceaniaThe formal use of the term "island chain" is a product of international political struggles. In the 1940s and 1950s, many socialist countries such as China, Vietnam, North Korea, and Mongolia emerged in the eastern Pacific of the Asian continent. For this reason, the Western military alliance headed by the United States has made every effort to use the first and second island chains to construct the so-called "crescent-shaped encirclement" of socialist countries. During the Cold War, through various bilateral and multilateral military cooperation methods, the United States successively established East Asian military bases centered on Japan and South Korea on the first island chain, and Southeast Asian military bases centered on Southeast Asian countries such as the Philippines and Singapore. The second island chain military base group with Guam as the core. These military base systems are arranged in an orderly manner and can support each other, holding all the throats of the Asian continent to the Pacific. The "island chain" has not only become an important bargaining chip for the United States to curb the development of Asian countries to the ocean, but also an important support for the US military in the Western Pacific region. Since then, many countries have vividly referred to this situation of island arc encirclement as "island chain", or "island chain" for short. Thinking of the so-called "island chain", it has both geographic and political and military content. Its purpose is to contain the Asian continent and form a deterrent to the countries of the Asian continent.During the Cold War, it was a line of defense to contain socialist countries and contain Soviet nuclear submarines. After the end of the Cold War, it became one of the three lines of defense (three island chains) for the United States to contain China's rise.As the strategic rear of the US military's military power in the Far East, it has an important mission. And because the US Pacific Fleet Command is stationed in the Hawaiian Islands, the third island chain plays an irreplaceable role in the US naval power. It is also the last line of defense against the United States. The main purpose of the first island chain is to block China, the second island chain defends against Russia and Japan, and the third island chain defends most countries including the Western Pacific. When the Third Island Chain came into play, the United States was faced with the emergency of its homeland defense like the Pearl Harbor incident. The "Third Island Chain" base group is a strategic base of the United States and the "large rear" of the United States' forward deployment of troops, and it has a strong support capability for aircraft carriers. As of 2013, five aircraft carrier battle groups of the US Navy's Third Fleet were stationed here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578964/#p578964 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @36It’s not wrong for Americans to celebrate American Independence Day in the UK. You can also celebrate American Independence Day in China. It’s all right. The United States is indeed an independent country.But Taiwan is not an independent country, it is a province. Then, celebrating Taiwan’s independence is not provoking the government and causing trouble? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578963/#p578963 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @36It’s not wrong for Americans to celebrate American Independence Day in the UK. You can also celebrate American independence in China. It’s all right. The United States is indeed an independent country.But Taiwan is not an independent country, it is a province. Then, celebrating Taiwan’s independence is not provoking the government and causing trouble? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578963/#p578963 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china Both my parents are from different parts of asia, so I kinda grew up in a home with Eastern values, and even lived there for 3 periods of 2 to 4 months each, so I'd like to think that I'm pretty cultured in this regards. However I admit that there's always room to grow, and I will confess to having a preference towards how things are here in the west. They did always tell me that I have been americanized. I will say though, that US citizens celebrating independance day while in England is not unlike Taiwan wanting to celebrate Taiwan day, but if if the Chinese government doesn't like it because it doesn't sit well with their culture, then it is what it is I guess. I just don't agree with it, vut I gotta give lots and lots of love to the Englanders who are able to bury the hatchet and celebrate with us, and I can only hope that more nations who are at odds with one another can follow the example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578961/#p578961 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @34As I said, China has always focused on unification since ancient times. A certain region wants to be independent unless the region’s military capabilities are too strong, or the government is incompetent and cannot be controlled. This situation will only be temporary. independent.Don't forget that Taiwan has a diverse culture, including Chinese culture, so Taiwan cannot be divided. In fact, independence in many places was not what China wanted. It was because the environment at the time was bad and the Chinese government is powerless, so it is forced to recognize their independence.The Tiananmen Square incident is indeed a very bad incident. It is wrong to shoot at the students anyway. In fact, this incident cannot be blocked from the news. Now that I know all about it, of course other people know about it. Everyone is not stupid. No matter how bad things are blocked, it cannot be blocked.Such a bad event, if some people or some organizations are making exaggerated descriptions and inciting them, will people with unsteady convictions have other ideas? Is it possible to shake the country? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578958/#p578958 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @34As I said, China has always focused on unification since ancient times. A certain region wants to be independent unless the region’s military capabilities are too strong, or the government is incompetent and cannot be controlled. This situation will only be temporary. independent.Don't forget that Taiwan has a diverse culture, including Chinese culture, so Taiwan cannot be divided. In fact, independence in many places was not what China wanted. It was because the environment at the time was bad and the Chinese government was overwhelmed to recognize their independence.The Tiananmen Square incident is indeed a very bad incident. It is wrong to shoot at the students anyway. In fact, this incident cannot be blocked from the news. Now that I know all about it, of course other people know about it. Everyone is not stupid. No matter how bad things are blocked, it cannot be blocked.Such a bad event, if some people or some organizations are making exaggerated descriptions and inciting them, will people with unsteady convictions have other ideas? Is it possible to shake the country? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578958/#p578958 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Let me try and understand something here.The reason that China won't recognize Taiwan as its own country is because of some sort of blockade? For strategic purposes? It somehow weakens China to accept that Taiwan is now essentially its own country with its own diverging culture?Same goes for Hong Kong. If parts of the former country of China want to leave, or be independent, why not let them?I also have a bit of a problem with some of the points you raise in post 28. I am not at all a fan of doctoring information, such as that about, for instance, Tiananmen Square and what happened there. Thus, if unifying China means putting up one narrative that isn't necessarily true, I don't think that's necessarily a good thing. After all, who does it benefit? Because it seems to me that this kind of thinking can be used over and over again to cover up the mistakes of those in power, and that's something I'm really, really not okay with. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578955/#p578955 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @32To be honest, I never believe in peace, peace is only superficial.All peace is to prepare for the next war.If Taiwan’s independence is the fuse of China’s demise, and then all of China’s culture is gone, or it has become a spoil of war for the West, how sad it will be then.So no matter whether the Chinese government is undemocratic or feels unfree, it does protect the culture and some precious things that China has inherited since ancient times.Think about it, when the Mongols and Manchus ruled China, how many cultures were destroyed, how many people were killed, and how many precious books were all burned. Now there are ancient Chinese cultural relics in the British museum.So we still have to try our best to protect the interests of the country, do you want to experience a flourishing age like the Tang Dynasty?By the way, we have many identities. We can be Tang people, we can be Han people, we can be Huaxia华夏 people, or we can be Chinese now. We have never been truly destroyed. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578953/#p578953 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @32To be honest, I never believe in peace, peace is only superficial.All peace is to prepare for the next war.If Taiwan’s independence is the fuse of China’s demise, and then all of China’s culture is gone, or it has become a spoil of war for the West, how sad it will be then.So no matter whether the Chinese government is undemocratic or feels unfree, it does protect the culture and some precious things that China has inherited since ancient times.Think about it, when the Mongols and Manchus ruled China, how many cultures were destroyed, how many people were killed, and how many precious books were all burned. Now there are ancient Chinese cultural relics in the British museum.So we still have to try our best to protect the interests of the country, do you want to experience a flourishing age like the Tang Dynasty?By the way, we have many identities. We can be Tang people, we can be Han people, we can be Huaxia people, or we can be Chinese now. We have never been truly destroyed. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578953/#p578953 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.@24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, as far as I know, it is the DPP, not the KMT, who advocates Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP.@21This matter is actually very complicated.Is the information you obtained must be true historical facts?Is the Chinese government's forcibly blocking information channels really just trying to cover up the wrong things that it did in the past?not necessarily.Everyone knows that China is huge and a highly unified country. This is actually extremely incredible in the eyes of Western countries in Europe and America. No country has maintained a highly unified state since ancient times, Neither the ancient Roman Empire nor the modern Soviet Union could escape the fate of collapse. but China still maintains a unified state. It is quite terrible to think about it with strategic thinking.Do you know what remarks made in the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union?China collapse theory.In other words, China will soon collapse like the Soviet Union and eventually move towards a capitalist system.But in the end, everyone has witnessed it. It didn't collapse, and got better and better.This is incredible in the eyes of Westerners, even unimaginable, so they feel the threatSo what if Europe, America and the West want to break the unification of China? Forcibly breaking it by force is temporarily impossible, so can other means be used to shake China's grand unification situation?Of course, there are methods. One is the forced output of various model cultures. Each culture has good and bad sides, so we should vigorously output some bad things, or relatively negative things.This kind of negative culture is often absent in the local area and will only be exported to other countries.This can confuse the younger generation of China, hit China's future, and make the Chinese feel disagreement, so as to achieve the purpose of undermining the great unification.Another method is to slightly modify the historical facts, or to avoid the important ones, and add some private opinions. If the Chinese see these opinions, then those who lack independent thinking will be confused.They may gradually lack a sense of identity with the country, which can also undermine China's grand unification.This is the so-called use of soft power.Many things, thinking from a strategic or political level, may be easy to understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.@24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, it is not the Kuomintang government, but the DPP that demanded Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP.@21This matter is actually very complicated.Is the information you obtained must be true historical facts?Is the Chinese government's forcibly blocking information channels really just trying to cover up the wrong things that it did in the past?not necessarily.Everyone knows that China is huge and a highly unified country. This is actually extremely incredible in the eyes of Western countries in Europe and America. No country has maintained a highly unified state since ancient times, Neither the ancient Roman Empire nor the modern Soviet Union could escape the fate of collapse. but China still maintains a unified state. It is quite terrible to think about it with strategic thinking.Do you know what remarks made in the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union?China collapse theory.In other words, China will soon collapse like the Soviet Union and eventually move towards a capitalist system.But in the end, everyone has witnessed it. It didn't collapse, and got better and better.This is incredible in the eyes of Westerners, even unimaginable, so they feel the threatSo what if Europe, America and the West want to break the unification of China? Forcibly breaking it by force is temporarily impossible, so can other means be used to shake China's grand unification situation?Of course, there are methods. One is the forced output of various model cultures. Each culture has good and bad sides, so we should vigorously output some bad things, or relatively negative things.This kind of negative culture is often absent in the local area and will only be exported to other countries.This can confuse the younger generation of China, hit China's future, and make the Chinese feel disagreement, so as to achieve the purpose of undermining the great unification.Another method is to slightly modify the historical facts, or to avoid the important ones, and add some private opinions. If the Chinese see these opinions, then those who lack independent thinking will be confused.They may gradually lack a sense of identity with the country, which can also undermine China's grand unification.This is the so-called use of soft power.Many things, thinking from a strategic or political level, may be easy to understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @31, yes, that is true. And each has both benefits and drawbacks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578944/#p578944 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.@24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, it is not the Kuomintang government, but the DPP that demanded Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP.@21This matter is actually very complicated.Is the information you obtained must be true historical facts?Is the Chinese government's forcibly blocking information channels really just trying to cover up the wrong things that it did in the past?not necessarily.Everyone knows that China is huge and a highly unified country. This is actually extremely incredible in the eyes of Western countries in Europe and America. No country has maintained a highly unified state since ancient times, not even the Soviet Union as a huge country. All eventually move towards the destiny of break down, but China still maintains a unified state. It is quite terrible to think about it with strategic thinking.Do you know what remarks made in the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union?China collapse theory.In other words, China will soon collapse like the Soviet Union and eventually move towards a capitalist system.But in the end, everyone has witnessed it. It didn't collapse, and got better and better.This is incredible in the eyes of Westerners, even unimaginable, so they feel the threatSo what if Europe, America and the West want to break the unification of China? Forcibly breaking it by force is temporarily impossible, so can other means be used to shake China's grand unification situation?Of course, there are methods. One is the forced output of various model cultures. Each culture has good and bad sides, so we should vigorously output some bad things, or relatively negative things.This kind of negative culture is often absent in the local area and will only be exported to other countries.This can confuse the younger generation of China, hit China's future, and make the Chinese feel disagreement, so as to achieve the purpose of undermining the great unification.Another method is to slightly modify the historical facts, or to avoid the important ones, and add some private opinions. If the Chinese see these opinions, then those who lack independent thinking will be confused.They may gradually lack a sense of identity with the country, which can also undermine China's grand unification.This is the so-called use of soft power.Many things, thinking from a strategic or political level, may be easy to understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china The thinking mode of China, or the East, is different from that of the West, and there are also great differences in ideology.It is really difficult to understand for people who have not seriously studied the cultural differences between the East and the West. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578943/#p578943 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @29Taiwan Day and the celebration day you mentioned above are completely different concepts.If Taiwan is not celebrating as a country, then everything is easy to say.The key is that Taiwan celebrates as a country, and this is a matter of principle.Taiwan can only be Taiwan Province, not a Taiwan country. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578942/#p578942 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.@24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, it is not the Kuomintang government, but the DPP that demanded Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP.@21This matter is actually very complicated.Is the information you obtained must be true historical facts?Is the Chinese government's forcibly blocking information channels really just trying to cover up the wrong things that it did in the past?not necessarily.Everyone knows that China is huge and a highly unified country. This is actually extremely incredible in the eyes of Western countries in Europe and America. No country has maintained a highly unified state since ancient times, not even the Soviet Union as a huge country. All eventually move towards the destiny of break down, but China still maintains a unified state. It is quite terrible to think about it with strategic thinking.Do you know what remarks made in the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union?China collapse theory.In other words, China will soon collapse like the Soviet Union and eventually move towards a capitalist system.But in the end, everyone has witnessed it. It didn't collapse, but got better and better.This is incredible in the eyes of Westerners, even unimaginable, so they feel the threatSo what if Europe, America and the West want to break the unification of China? Forcibly breaking it by force is temporarily impossible, so can other means be used to shake China's grand unification situation?Of course, there are methods. One is the forced output of various model cultures. Each culture has good and bad sides, so we should vigorously output some bad things, or relatively negative things.This kind of negative culture is often absent in the local area and will only be exported to other countries.This can confuse the younger generation of China, hit China's future, and make the Chinese feel disagreement, so as to achieve the purpose of undermining the great unification.Another method is to slightly modify the historical facts, or to avoid the important ones, and add some private opinions. If the Chinese see these opinions, then those who lack independent thinking will be confused.They may gradually lack a sense of identity with the country, which can also undermine China's grand unification.This is the so-called use of soft power.Many things, thinking from a strategic or political level, may be easy to understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china I still don't see why Taiwan day can't be a thing. I mean over here the Mexicans selebrate Cinco de mayo, the Indians selebrate their gift giving holiday in November, we selebrate the lunar new year, the jews celebrate the passover, the Christians celebrate resurrection day,, eben the Brits living here and abroad celebrate independence day with us. Diversity is something that should be treasured, not suppressed, because without diversity we might as well be mindless robots, and diversity also helps us establish our own identities and gives others an opportunity to learn about our culture. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578938/#p578938 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.@24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, it is not the Kuomintang government, but the DPP that demanded Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP.@21This matter is actually very complicated.Is the information you obtained must be true historical facts?Is the Chinese government's forcibly blocking information channels really just trying to cover up the wrong things that it did in the past?not necessarily.Everyone knows that China is huge and a highly unified country. This is actually extremely incredible in the eyes of Western countries in Europe and America. No country has maintained a highly unified state since ancient times, not even the Soviet Union as a huge country. All eventually move towards the destiny of break down, but China still maintains a unified state. It is quite terrible to think about it with strategic thinking.So what if Europe, America and the West want to break the unification of China? Forcibly breaking it by force is temporarily impossible, so can other means be used to shake China's grand unification situation?Of course, there are methods. One is the forced output of various model cultures. Each culture has good and bad sides, so we should vigorously output some bad things, or relatively negative things.This kind of negative culture is often absent in the local area and will only be exported to other countries.This can confuse the younger generation of China, hit China's future, and make the Chinese feel disagreement, so as to achieve the purpose of undermining the great unification.Another method is to slightly modify the historical facts, or to avoid the important ones, and add some private opinions. If the Chinese see these opinions, then those who lack independent thinking will be confused.They may gradually lack a sense of identity with the country, which can also undermine China's grand unification.This is the so-called use of soft power.Many things, thinking from a strategic or political level, may be easy to understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.@24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, it is not the Kuomintang government, but the DPP that demanded Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP.@21This matter is actually very complicated.Is the information you obtained must be true historical facts?Is China's Yili blocking information channels really just to cover up the wrong things that it has done?not necessarily.Everyone knows that China is huge and a highly unified country. This is actually extremely incredible in the eyes of Western countries in Europe and America. No country has maintained a highly unified state since ancient times, not even the Soviet Union as a huge country. All eventually move towards the destiny of understanding, but China still maintains a unified state. It is quite terrible to think about it with strategic thinking.So what if Europe, America and the West want to break the unification of China? Forcibly breaking it by force is temporarily impossible, so can other means be used to shake China's grand unification situation?Of course, there are methods. One is the forced output of various model cultures. Each culture has good and bad sides, so we should vigorously output some bad things, or relatively negative things.This kind of negative culture is often absent in the local area and will only be exported to other countries.This can confuse the younger generation of China, hit China's future, and make the Chinese feel disagreement, so as to achieve the purpose of undermining the great unification.Another method is to slightly modify the historical facts, or to avoid the important ones, and add some private opinions. If the Chinese see these opinions, then those who lack independent thinking will be confused.They may gradually lack a sense of identity with the country, which can also undermine China's grand unification.This is the so-called use of soft power.Many things, thinking from a strategic or political level, may be easy to understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @24Even though Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan that year, Chiang Kai-shek still emphasized that there was only one China and Taiwan must be Chinese territory. Therefore, although there were two governments back then, the concept of one China was the same on both sides.This shows that the concept of grand unification has been deeply ingrained in the hearts of Chinese people.Moreover, it is not the Kuomintang government, but the DPP that demanded Taiwan’s independence. As far as I know, there are political struggles in Taiwan. The Kuomintang does not seem to have the upper hand, so the right to speak lies in the hands of the DPP. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578933/#p578933 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @26Out of strategic considerations, Taiwan must return to China.In fact, according to your statement, Hong Kong can be independent, but it cannot!Although Hong Kong is not independent, it can still carry out its system. Although it is only 50 years old, I think if Taiwan can return, it can also be implemented in the same way. In fact, there is nothing wrong with Taiwan’s return. Now the mainland is economically developed and can be driven. Taiwan's economy. .The strategic significance of Taiwan is too great.Whether China can break away from the US island chain blockade can be broken through through Taiwan. In addition, the South China Sea issue seems to be due to this reason, and they do not want to be blocked for development.Regardless of the Chinese government, China has been a unified country since ancient times. If it can be unified, try to unify as much as possible. Even after Chiang Kai-shek went to Taiwan that year, Yili emphasized that there is only one China.assault_freak wrote:The Taiwan issue is one that isn't so easily discussed without learning abou 50 or so years of history.MY opinion on China? It's a beautiful country with a long history, beautiful culture, and if you're smart, good food. I love it. What I do not like is the political system, the way the country is being run by the government. But those are two separate things... so my opinions of China and the Chinese people, and my opinions on the government, will always be different.For the main subject at hand, there are people in taiwan who think they should be a province of China. They are not the majority, mind you, but they are around. I do not think this way, partially because of my Dad who is very much a pro independent Taiwan kind of man. But also because although Taiwan may have started as a province of China 3 or 4 centuries ago, it's now an independent with a government, cultural practices and identity that is quite different rom the Mainland. So me personally? I'm not in favour of Taiwan being returned to China as a province. But I do not hate China or its people, because that culture and lnguage is also part of my heritage, one of which I'm very proud. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578930/#p578930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china I just wanted to know about your opinion on the Chinese government.I myself respect people of different countries.thanks for your views. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578862/#p578862 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china The Taiwan issue is one that isn't so easily discussed without learning abou 50 or so years of history.MY opinion on China? It's a beautiful country with a long history, beautiful culture, and if you're smart, good food. I love it. What I do not like is the political system, the way the country is being run by the government. But those are two separate things... so my opinions of China and the Chinese people, and my opinions on the government, will always be different.For the main subject at hand, there are people in taiwan who think they should be a province of China. They are not the majority, mind you, but they are around. I do not think this way, partially because of my Dad who is very much a pro independent Taiwan kind of man. But also because although Taiwan may have started as a province of China 3 or 4 centuries ago, it's now an independent with a government, cultural practices and identity that is quite different rom the Mainland. So me personally? I'm not in favour of Taiwan being returned to China as a province. But I do not hate China or its people, because that culture and lnguage is also part of my heritage, one of which I'm very proud. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578849/#p578849 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @Zakc 93 I agree with you. are you celebrating Taiwan national day tomorrow? because I am celebrating it.and I am going out for a lunch with my family tomorrow. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578834/#p578834 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @拓海I'm confused why Taiwan is regarded as a province of China. During the civil war the Kuomintang government retreated to Taiwan, and it was never conquered by the communist forces that took over the mainland. So it's not controlled by the same government. It seems to me like north and south Korea, where each country claims all of Korea, and the goal is to reunify, but at the moment they are two different countries with different governments. China claims Taiwan and wants to reintegrate it, but at the moment it is a separate country that has its own government. I also heard Taiwan claims all of the territory that was controlled by the Qing dynasty, including Mongolia, but I don't know if that's still true. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578829/#p578829 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china No, but unfortunately for what they call as "Americans" will call them as "Usonians" or "United Staters" instead of the first. American for me sounds like someone from! the continent, but not from the USA. As for MRS. China, I really... Or ever don't know. All I know it has very advanced technology that I can even communicate with aliens! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578821/#p578821 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china No one is brainwashed by their government in this thread, are they? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578811/#p578811 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china @19 Texas has their own lone star flag and no one complains.And in regards to your pointnon freedom of speech, I agree that some things are better left unsaid. However, shaming, harming, and putting people to death for criticizing others, or for not sharing the views of the general public is wrong, and thats the bottom line. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578808/#p578808 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china What is my opinion on China? Well china has been around for a very long time, virtually ever since humanity started making ceramic pots, however it was the development of glazing techniques and the formulation of coloured glazes that utility changed to art form, leading to many asian customs such as tea ceremonies which exist to this day. of course, with Victorian expantion and the obsession with eastern culture, glazed pots, and particularly tea became very important in England as well, indeed I have something of a fondness for willow pattern tea services myself, since I appreciate the ancient fairy tale story of doomed love. Wait a minute? What do you mean this topic isn't about pottery? Delicate subject matter, ancient cultures, and above all potential for lots of high heat flames to turn previously malleable substances into something hard and brittle? Sounds about right to me. Anyway, as I don't like the heat I'll get out of the kiln, and will have a nice cup of tea, or coffee in my case . Oh, and for other matters, I personally agree with Kenshira in post 13, generalisations are always wrong, America is a big place, and since I have no knowledge of what the situation between Taiwan and China is, I'll leave well enough alone before I break any crocks . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578804/#p578804 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @18Taiwan can always only be Taiwan Province. This is a matter of principle and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.If Texas in the United States celebrated its independence, what would you think?One of the reasons I dislike freedom of speech most is that it No principle and dare to say anything. Some words can only make people feel arrogant and unreasonable, and they seem to have no knowledge.I still stick to my point of view.Some things can be said, but some things are better not to be said, and freedom of speech must also be a degree. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578802/#p578802 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @18Taiwan can always only be Taiwan Province. This is a matter of principle and has nothing to do with freedom of speech.If Texas in the United States celebrated its independence, what would you think?One of the reasons I dislike freedom of speech most is that it does not discriminate between principles and dare to say anything. Some words can only make people feel arrogant and unreasonable, and they seem to have no knowledge.I still stick to my point of view.Some things can be said, but some things are better not to be said, and freedom of speech must also be a degree. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578802/#p578802 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china I always just tell people that I'm from the states Over here, we believe in the freedom of speech and _expression_, so what the chinese embassy is trying to impose is wrong in my opinion. Thats like telling me that I can't selebrate independence day. Thats also why I could never stand to make my residence in such places that limit what you can say, because if someone does something wrong, I'm going to fall them out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578797/#p578797 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china That's the reason why there shall be an unified north American republic. US, Mexico and Canada together.. And eaven I really don't know why they call themselves Americans on the U.S, but I like to call them as "United Staters" or "Usonians". Just that there's "Estadounidense" in Spanish language, there shall be an endonim for them in english, and "American" shall be "A resident from the American continent." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578795/#p578795 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china That's the reason why there shall be an unified north American republic. US, Mexico and Canada together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578795/#p578795 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Yeah it was pretty bold of the US to just swoop in adn call themselves America. From what I can tell they were gonna call themselves Freedonia, or Columbia but Grand Columbia in the south emerged, and Freedonia fell out of favour, so America was chosen. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578794/#p578794 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Just say you're from El Norte, they'll get it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578790/#p578790 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china let me post the letter hereThe Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) on Thursday reiterated that the Indian media is free and it reports on issues on merit. The Ministry spokesperson’s response came a day after the Chinese Embassy sent an email to around 250 journalists asking them not to refer to Taiwan as a “country” or a “nation” while covering a special event on October 10 to be organised by the Taipei Economy and Cultural Centre (TECC) in India.“There is a free media in India, that reports on issues that they see fit,” said Anurag Srivastava of the Ministry of External Affairs in response to a question during the weekly online media interaction.The MEA response came a day after the note to the Indian media urged them to follow the “One China principle” with regard to the upcoming celebration of the “109th” anniversary of the “national” day of Taiwan.The Chinese Embassy reminded the Indian media that Beijing does not recognise Taiwan as an independent country or a nation and the Indian media should follow that while reporting on the Taiwanese event.“We hope Indian media can stick to Indian government’s position on Taiwan question and do not violate the One-China principle,” the Chinese statement had said.India has officially followed the “One-China principle” and there has been no change in that stance. . The TECC does not have a diplomatic status here as India does not recognise Taiwan as a separate entity.The Chinese statement drew widespread response on social media. Comments poured in from Taiwan, including from persons in Taipei. A social media post from Taiwan's “foreign ministry” hit out at the Chinese Embassy and accused Beijing of attempting to impose restrictions on Indian media.However, the Embassy spokesperson reiterated Beijing's position on Thursday and said, “There is only one China in the world. Taiwan is inalienable part of China's territory. One-China policy is international universal consensus and long-standing position of Indian government, which China appreciates. It is wishful thinking to seek any “Taiwan independence”.”.The exchanges took place hours after External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar participated in the Quad ministerial meeting with counterparts from Australia, Japan and the United States in Tokyo where all sides reiterated common commitment to uphold a free and inclusive Asia-Pacific region of which the Taiwan Strait forms an important part.The issues related to the Asia-Pacific region are expected to feature in the 2+2 dialogue between Dr. Jaishankar. Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and their U.S. counterparts Mike Pompeo and Mark Esper. The MEA on Thursday confirmed that the meeting will be held this year but Mr. Srivastava did not give a specific date for the important event when both countries are expected to seal an agreement for geo-spatial cooperation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578787/#p578787 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
2020-10-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china Couple things:Contrabercial things are done by every country. Disney is in all kinds of trouble, and a part of it is because they took the time to thank the chinese government for letting them philm in the northwest region. Thats problematic because that region is where you can still find consentration camps today, just like the US government did to the japanese back during world war II. So they ordered their media not to cover disney's movie that they shot there. I mention this because i think its important to be specific when you call something like this out, otherwise you cast a bad light on some people who may be entirely innocent. Saying things like china did this, or america did that is way over generalizing in my opinion. Bet some of you guys didn't know that people living in latin america find it offensive if someone from the united states tells them that they are from america, because guess whatz? People living in south america are also from america. Thats why i always take the time to point out the states specifically when refering to america,. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578786/#p578786 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china @Ironcross. Too bad the big boys over in Detroit and California shipped away miliioons of American job. Europe and India are also pretty guilty in this Chinasiation of our manufacturing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578785/#p578785 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china thank god. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578784/#p578784 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china I'm not a fan. I feel like we could put a mighty big dent in their economy by pulling our manufacturing business out of there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578779/#p578779 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china Where that letter can be read? In chinese preferably? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578774/#p578774 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china My opinion is china do bad things to their people so we should move our manufacturing back to the west. Move our factories out of China and bring them to mexico, South America, the Caribbean, and Africa. Regions where they could get away with low wages and still be humain. Ah. If only Good old Pat was still alive... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578773/#p578773 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china My opinion is china do bad things to their people so we should move our manufacturing back to the west. Move our factories out of China and bring them to mexico, South America, the Caribbean, and Africa. Regions where they could get away with low wages and still be humain. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578773/#p578773 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china i'M happy for you then URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578768/#p578768 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china and post number 2 I do learn from my mistakes and thus, this is the reason why I am thinking a thousand times before posting any post on this forum from now on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578765/#p578765 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: your opinion on china
Re: your opinion on china bro everyone does mistakes. so did I.and I vow to not repeat such mistakes again.I just asked for opinion.I didn't write anything that is objectionable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/578764/#p578764 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
