Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Direct setup possible with low input impedance on power amp
boikej;472890 Wrote: I have a SB Receiver and just bought a Niles SI-275 amp. I would like to hook the SB to the Niles direct, to use fewer parts. I have level controls to make sure output volume is not a problem. According to Crutchfield specs, the amp has an input impedance of 56k ohms. Will I damage either the SB or Niles by hooking it direct? What form do these level controls take? If they are some kind of passive attenuators, then they will affect the impedance matching. However, 56k is a reasonably high input impedance, and it's difficult to envisage any sensible arrangement of passive attenuation that will cause problems. So hooking the SBR directly to it should be fine. boikej;472890 Wrote: If this set-up is ok, I'm also considering hooking the Cascade Output from the Niles to an old Onkyo receiver (TX-8511) to power two other pairs of in-ceiling speakers. I assume it gets tougher to diagnose, but is there anything immediately bad about that thought, or is going SB Receiver Niles input/output Onkyo input allowable? Can't really help you there. I tried Googling the amp to see if I could find detail technical specs, and after wading through the first 4 pages of results - all of which were just online sellers - I gave up. If the cascade outputs are on RCA/phono sockets, then chances are that they are typical line level and will have a low output impedance, in which case they'll be fine for driving the input of another amp. If you have access to the specs, look for the output impedance of the cascade outputs, and provided they are no more than about 1kOhm, you'll be fine. Note: don't get this spec mixed up with the output impedance of the power amp section (ie. to the speaker terminals), which is likely to be less than 0.1 Ohm. boikej;472890 Wrote: Thanks so much in advance for any advice on my specific set-up. I can't get a handle on how the impedence works out for my system. Impedance matching is actually pretty simple for domestic audio. What you want are low output impedances and high input impedances. So most line level outputs are below 1k, and most line level inputs are above 10k. If the ratio gets too small, and if the interconnects are very long, then it can affect the frequency response. But things have to be pretty extreme before it'll be audible. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Direct setup possible with low input impedance on power amp
boikej;472890 Wrote: Will I damage either the SB or Niles by hooking it direct? Also, are there any clear (less concerned with theoretical) sound quality problems with this set-up? No, but turn the level controls on the Niles down as low as possible when you hook it up for the first time, to ensure that potential max volume on your SB doesn't damage your speakers. After that, turn them up gradually. boikej;472890 Wrote: If this set-up is ok, I'm also considering hooking the Cascade Output from the Niles to an old Onkyo receiver (TX-8511) to power two other pairs of in-ceiling speakers. I assume it gets tougher to diagnose, but is there anything immediately bad about that thought, or is going SB Receiver Niles input/output Onkyo input allowable? Should also be fine. Sound-quality wise you might want to try the first step first, and after that hook up the Onkyo to see if there is any degradation. I'm assuming that the ceiling speakers are in another room (right?). Otherwise you might not gain a lot from this setup. -- teejay teejay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9349 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter knob as volume control only
Hi, Is there some configuration setting or plugin to put the Transporter knob in permanent volume control mode? I am switching to Transporter direct to power amp (Bryston 3B-SST) setup and this would be very convenient. -- Normunds Normunds's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter knob as volume control only
I think this was asked recently (and that there is a long thread about it), the answer being no. I used to run my Transporter directly into a Bryston 4B-SST and then into PMC OB1s, first using the balanced cabled and latterly using normal phonos (as the hifi wouldn't go loud enough with the baslanced cables). Now I run my SB++ directly into the Bryston instead. MC -- ModelCitizen Think the third party Squeeze plugins and applets are important? Then 'vote for bug 14194' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14194) so more can be made. Last.fm/user/ModelCitizen ModelCitizen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 with Beresford Caiman
Deaf Cat;465186 Wrote: Interesting, thank you :) I don't suppose you've ever heard a Tag Mclaren AV32r? There is a second hand one I'm pondering upon at the moment,which I would only use as a pre/dac with a remote. Your new little dac sounds very interesting, I think if it had a remote, it would definatly be worth demoing. Thinking of that, I guess the SB remote volume wise could be used... Thanks again for your review. DC I've had a Tag AV32rBP192. It's an AV preamp but an excellent hifi DAC too - better than a TAG DAC20. Actually, I prefer my Beresford which is a TC7520 upgraded with the WM8716 chip that is in the Caiman and THS4032CD op amps. Probably just sub-Caiman in spec. The Beresford is actually an excellent preamp. Very transparent though I marginally prefer the MF Nu-Vista preamp that I'm currently using. I would expect a Beresford Caiman to outperform the TAG. -- HectorHughMunro HectorHughMunro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16514 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter knob as volume control only
...why just no ? Sounds strange beign impossible, so could we have an option in SS settings telling that we want TP center knob for volume by default and use back key to swap on navigation ? As fare as I know, it works so on the Boom when on mysqueezebox.com -- your momo your momo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8095 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter knob as volume control only
your momo;473125 Wrote: ...why just no ? Sounds strange beign impossible, so could we have an option in SS settings telling that we want TP center knob for volume by default and use back key to swap on navigation ? As fare as I know, it works so on the Boom when on mysqueezebox.com I quite like the idea of having a setting to control this knob functionality - so I can turn that behaviour off for Boom. It might be possible to change via an IR map. i.e. look at how the default.map is set up and tweak in a custom map file (eg. transporter.map) and assign that map to the transporter player. -- Philip Meyer Philip Meyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=95 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Direct setup possible with low input impedance on power amp
Thanks cliveb and teejay! A few responses: While Crutchfield reports the Niles input impedance at 56k ohms, Niles manual states it as 15k ohms. But based on your feedback, sounds like either is reasonably high to be safe to connect directly to my SB Receiver. The level controls are two screws in the Niles, which enable you to preset the maximum system volume (or match levels with another amplifier). I can't, for the life of me, find documentation that states they're passive attenuators or otherwise. But it sounds like that shouldn't be a concern, given a 15k-56k input impedance. Likewise I can't find output impedance of the Niles outputs, but they are RCA so I'll assume they're typical line level outs. The in-ceiling speakers are indeed in another room. Thanks again guys, I think I finally have the first decent set-up I've been looking for! -- boikej boikej's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33577 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69340 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 with Beresford Caiman
Themis;462223 Wrote: ... I did not do any serious listening through my ATH-W1000 headphones, but I promise I will one day. I would be interested in that. I would like to know if this DAC could be used as a DAC+headphone amp of high quality (input: receiver; headphone: AKG K701). Teus -- Teus de Jong Teus de Jong's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15415 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 with Beresford Caiman
Teus de Jong;473158 Wrote: I would be interested in that. I would like to know if this DAC could be used as a DAC+headphone amp of high quality (input: receiver; headphone: AKG K701). Teus The Caiman has a very good Class A Headphone amp. Stan Beresford claims it drives the K701s very well - they are one of his favourites. See http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2862 -- Labarum Brian Squeezebox 3 Classic and Virgin Cable Box Beresford DAC TC-7520SE (Caiman) - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man Quart 980s Speakers Boom in kitchen. Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 with Beresford Caiman
Teus de Jong;473158 Wrote: I would be interested in that. I would like to know if this DAC could be used as a DAC+headphone amp of high quality (input: receiver; headphone: AKG K701). Teus I will add a review on the headphone amp part next week. At first glance (I mean just a few hours) it sounds very accurate to my taste. I will try to make a comparison with the small Creek (OBH-11). The Caiman can drive headphones up to 600ohms. So, it should be ok for the AKG (which is only 62ohms). -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter knob as volume control only
your momo;473125 Wrote: ...why just no ? Sounds strange beign impossible, so could we have an option in SS settings telling that we want TP center knob for volume by default and use back key to swap on navigation ? As fare as I know, it works so on the Boom when on mysqueezebox.com Not impossible, but Squeezebox software has a long history of trying to be smarter than the person using it. And an equally long history of doing so poorly. That's why it automatically switches functions instead of simply being configurable. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69868 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 with Beresford Caiman
Thanks Labarum and Themis. I'll wait for Themis review. A bit more background. My main system is what you could call (maybe) a modest audiophile setup: transporter Ayre AX-7e Audio Vital Animato (see www.audiovital.eu/animato.html). I'm quite satisfied with the sound. Due to changing circumstances here in my house, I have to listen with headphones more than I like. For that reason I bought the AKG K701. Now I'm looking into getting the most out of this headphone without spending too much. I could use the receiver with a (rather cheap) headphone amp (which would bind me to the receiver DAC) or with the Caiman. (Maybe in the future I could switch the receiver for a Touch.) Teus -- Teus de Jong Teus de Jong's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15415 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=66216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
I might have missed previous posts, but does any one know if Logitech intends to upgrade the ability of the Transporter to handle higher resolution (e.g., 24 bit/192kHz) files? I'm currently feeding my modwright transporter's digital signal to a playback designs DAC and would like to have the ability to play back files with resolutions higher than the Transporter's current 24bit/96kHz limit. Thanks. -- cmarin cmarin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
That's never going to happen. In others words, no. You may want to consider the Touch if you are using an external dac anyway. -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Who is the manufacturer of the Touch? And does it provide 24/192kHz capability? -- cmarin cmarin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
cmarin;473244 Wrote: Who is the manufacturer of the Touch? And does it provide 24/192kHz capability? The Touch is the upcoming new Squeezebox, and won't support 24/192 files. The only streamer I'm aware of that will support such high res files are the Linn DS kit. -- Mr_Sukebe SB3, Meridian 568.2, Bel Canto Evo2i, Impulse Ta'us, Coherent system, audio-technica and Zanash cables, Stillpoints Mr_Sukebe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 with digital active monitors
I have a pair of DSM-1 (6.5 inch) and i like the sound when they are feed with spdif. http://www.m-audio.ca/products/en_ca/StudiophileDSM1.html the digital input support digital up to 24-bit/192kHz. So if you use the touch i presume that you will be able to listen 24/96khz music. I read that the SB3 downconvert to 24/48khz. Theses speakers are class-D and have a internal dip-switch EQ to ajust frequency for the speakers position. There is also a digital standby swith that detect the presence of the clock on the spdif output and then power-on the speakers. Its perfect with the sb3 alarm mode + the option to power off output when sb3 is off. -- lafontaj lafontaj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8473 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67567 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
Just adding that the Touch will support up to 24/96 -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
I am familiar with the blue smoke music server that handles 24/192kHz and provides on the fly upsampling conversion as well; and of course you also have computer based severs. Too bad about the limitation on the transporter. I guess the economics are not sufficient to compell logitech to upgrade the Transporter. Sad because it's a great piece. -- cmarin cmarin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
cmarin wrote: I am familiar with the blue smoke music server that handles 24/192kHz and provides on the fly upsampling conversion as well; and of course you also have computer based severs. Too bad about the limitation on the transporter. I guess the economics are not sufficient to compell logitech to upgrade the Transporter. Sad because it's a great piece. Where are you finding real 24/192kHz material? Do you know if it actually has signal over 48kHz? I am assuming that you claim to actually have a system that can tell the difference between lowly 24/96 and your dream of 24/192 -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
If you're interested in learning more about the quality of high resolution files please go to www.computeraudiophile.com. You will also find discussions/links on the relative quality of music files at different resolutions from 16/44.1kHz to 24/96 and higher, as well as how to setup players to optimally playback high res files. I would also direct you to the January 2009 issue of The Absolute Sound's articles on Reference Recordings' high res files and the review of the Berkeley Alpha dac. I believe that the superior quality of high resolution files in resolving systems is well documented. Below is a partial listing of sources for High Resolution files: Reference Recordings - offers 176.4/24 HRx WAV files (DVD-R) Reference Recordings - offers 176.4/24 HRx (DVD-R) Linn Records - offers 192/24 and 96/24 or 88.2/24 FLAC files (download) 2L - offers 192/24 FLAC files also some gratis 192/24 FLAC files Chesky Records - has 192/24 (DVD-R) Granted, the selection is still limited, but increasing. And IMHO high res files are the wave of the future. As to whether my system is resolving enough, you can be the judge: modwright transporter (digital out) playback designs MPS5 (dac - capable of 24/192kHz) dartzeel pre dartzeel amp magico v3 speakers. -- cmarin cmarin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
pfarrell;473348 Wrote: Where are you finding real 24/192kHz material? One place: http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com Some folks are doing 24/192 needle drops as well. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/192kHz capability for Transporter
JJZolx wrote: pfarrell;473348 Wrote: Where are you finding real 24/192kHz material? One place: http://www.highdeftapetransfers.com Some folks are doing 24/192 needle drops as well. You mean transfers from vinyl? There is nothing close to a 50kHz signal on any vinyl record There are very few, if any recording studios that have preamps or microphones that go over 25kHz, and most commercial, professional mics are designed to trail off at with at least a 6 dB per octave filter. Just as the digital camera folks have started to realize that ever more megapixels does not mean ever better photos, its hard to believe that there is *any* signal over 40kHz in commercial recordings. But for bragging rights, its almost as good as saying that mine is bigger -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
