Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Mike Borgelt]

Jim,

Some Parachutes Australia chutes do have a time limit. 21 or 22 years IIRC.



Mike

At 01:38 PM 10/26/2017, you wrote:


Apologies to Ron. You had no idea what you started.
  But people take these things too lightly.
  Highly recommend doing a couple of jumps so 
you know what it feels like, even if the jump 
isn't started from a damaged aircraft. My 
personal preference is for a square parachute. 
They have great directional and speed control, 
but owners need to be trained or at least 
briefed. I can do a stand-up spot landing, a 
good feeling to have while strapping it on tightly prior to flight.
  Learned long ago the pains involved in 
opening a parachute with a loose harness...

Imagine someone kicking you in the groin. The pain goes up to your eyes.
  Back to the start: There is no time limit on 
any parachute, since the certification method used didn't specify one.

This includes Para-Phernalia, who first mentioned the 20-year subject.
Passing inspection is up to your rigger. You can 
always retire the chute yourself, just cut the suspension lines and it's done.

Jim

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Jim Staniforth]

Apologies to Ron. You had no idea what you started.
  But people take these things too lightly.
  Highly recommend doing a couple of jumps so you know what it feels 
like, even if the jump isn't started from a damaged aircraft. My 
personal preference is for a square parachute. They have great 
directional and speed control, but owners need to be trained or at least 
briefed. I can do a stand-up spot landing, a good feeling to have while 
strapping it on tightly prior to flight.
  Learned long ago the pains involved in opening a parachute with a 
loose harness...

Imagine someone kicking you in the groin. The pain goes up to your eyes.
  Back to the start: There is no time limit on any parachute, since the 
certification method used didn't specify one.

This includes Para-Phernalia, who first mentioned the 20-year subject.
Passing inspection is up to your rigger. You can always retire the chute 
yourself, just cut the suspension lines and it's done.

Jim
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Mike Borgelt]

So how many glider pilots have been 
killed/seriously injured by the parachute landing 
after successfully getting out and deploying the 
chute at a height where it will fully deploy before hitting the ground?


I know Harry was injured but his was a VERY low 
opening and I know of some some ankle/back 
injuries and bruises. Where gliders are flown in 
Australia there's usually not much to hit but you 
may have fun trying to get out of a tree. Got a 
survival kit on your person along with  a GPS 406 Mhz beacon?


When you deploy the whole aircraft parachute in a 
Cirrus SR22 you don't even have a steering option 
so you are just along for the ride.


As for "One thing G Dale said is that using a 
parachute should be considered to be a normal 
part of gliding. As normal as doing an 
outlanding." yeah, right. It should be considered 
a last ditch option when you have no options 
left. If nothing else the abandoned glider is a


(very small) risk to innocent people on the ground.

This isn't the Battle of Britain.

Mike




At 10:39 AM 10/26/2017, you wrote:
>>>then relax and enjoy the ride" as a great 
part of the risk is over. Ah! The late great 
Angelo Crapanzono, inventor of the pulled apex 
canopy was asked about when to deploy. His 
reply was… (in Italian English) "When the shh*t 
is up to here" … points to forehead. "Then 
maybe thee sh*t will be up to here…" points to 
bridge of nose… €¦ "or here…" points just below 
nose. I think there must  be a moment or two of 
relief that your chute has opened, followed by 
some time of alarm as you try and learn to 
steer the canopy and remember the drill for 
landing into wind, away from trees, buildings, 
water, animals, traffic etc. etc. D 
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tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Mike Borgelt]

My parachute guy (former French Army paratrooper 
in Algeria during the war there who now 
manufactures parachutes for drones and other 
military cargo uses) reckons gliders should have 
a small parachute which can be deployed to give 
you more time to exit and use your personal 
chute. This is a lot easier than having a whole 
glider + pilot parachute with a soft enough 
touchdown not to injure the pilot. On the Cirrus 
SR 22 and other powered aircraft with whole 
aircraft parachutes, the landing gear is part of 
the energy absorption system. There isn't that much distance in a glider.

Does anyone know how many whole glider parachute options have been sold?

Mike






At 10:59 AM 10/26/2017, you wrote:
Just to add to Mike's very appropriate comments, 
the mantra once was that on hearing a bang, 
dirty up the glider. Drop the U/C, open the 
spoilers, as a reflex action before all others. 
That way the speed doesn't run away so quickly 
and it will remain possible to open the canopy.Â


On 26 October 2017 at 11:32, Mike Borgelt 
<mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> 
wrote:

Gary,

Both competition pilots I mentioned just hadn't 
given the parachute and bailout procedure any 
thought before we mentioned it. The people I 
mentioned who were wearing the parachutes 
incorrectly were also flying in a contest. Carol 
adjusted the harness properly on a couple of 
people. When we went back a couple of years 
later they had gone back to wearing them 
improperly. When we had first found out about 
the improper wear we actually contacted GFA with 
a suggested bulletin. I think it got sent out. 
NAtional Parachutes actually come with a nice 
manual. If you have a National Parachute, have you read it?


While waiting for a launch you should sometimes 
just mentally rehearse the actions required and 
touching the relevant handles. If there is time 
actually open canopy (side hinged only, front 
opening there is usually a jettison handle) and 
undo straps (that is the correct order because 
if the glider is wildly gyrating you may find it 
difficult to operate the opening handles after 
undoing the harness). Don't forget to re-do the entire cockpit check.


Yes, immediately on exit, pull the ripcord. That 
was the advice given to me in 1973 by Staff 
Sergeant Danny Wright SASRÂ  in 1973 who also 
taught me how to repack a parachute. His other 
word were " then relax and enjoy the ride" as a great part of the risk is over.


Mike









08:56 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
         boundary="=_NextPart_000_0022_01D34DDC.2B22EF50"
Content-Language: en-au


Mike and All,
Very nicely put. I have never before seen so 
many elements of the topic covered in so few words.

Â
DMcD, seemed to cover most of the other 
practical elements, in his earlier post, with 
useful additional comment in his 2nd post.

Â
In my experience, I have yet to meet a 
competition  glider pilot who does not take 
his parachute condition and use very seriously. 
Statistics quite undeniably show that a pilot 
from this group will most often need to use 
his/her parachute. [There is nothing quite like 
incentive, is there?} However your comment on 
the general situation  “Yes, probably 
parachutes aren’t taken seriously enough by 
glider pilots.” seems to me to be quite valid.

Â
DMcD, I have seen (on YouTube), parachutists 
in  Fords, Chevs, and all sorts of other 
autos, being dropped  into space, but never 
with a Harley. What does this mean?

Â
Cheers,
Gary
Â
From: Aus-soaring [ 
mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2017 7:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute
Â
Here's the story on the National Parachutes 
we've sold for the last  28 years.


They are lightweight and comfortable and while 
some details have changed they are the same 
basic design/size/weight in all that time


The factory considers a life of 20 years is 
reasonable and won't repack them after that but 
your rigger can inspect the parachute and can 
return it to service if it is in his/her 
opinion revealed to be in airworthy condition 
as THERE IS NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL


PARACHUTES.

National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes 
to suit all weights of pilots. The N360 is 
suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 
95Kg, the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.


While National chute packs  are available in 
Navy, Black and Red we recommend the Black or 
Navy as the colours seem more durable.


The condition of the parachute depends on use 
and care. In a 7 day commercial operation it is 
doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. In 
private operation where the thing is unlikely 
to do more than 2000 hours in actual use and 
you keep it in a bag until ready to wear


and put it back  in the bag after wearing it 
will likely be fine. 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Paul Mander]

Just to add to Mike's very appropriate comments, the mantra once was that
on hearing a bang, dirty up the glider. Drop the U/C, open the spoilers, as
a reflex action before all others. That way the speed doesn't run away so
quickly and it will remain possible to open the canopy.

On 26 October 2017 at 11:32, Mike Borgelt 
wrote:

> Gary,
>
> Both competition pilots I mentioned just hadn't given the parachute and
> bailout procedure any thought before we mentioned it. The people I
> mentioned who were wearing the parachutes incorrectly were also flying in a
> contest. Carol adjusted the harness properly on a couple of people. When we
> went back a couple of years later they had gone back to wearing them
> improperly. When we had first found out about the improper wear we actually
> contacted GFA with a suggested bulletin. I think it got sent out. NAtional
> Parachutes actually come with a nice manual. If you have a National
> Parachute, have you read it?
>
> While waiting for a launch you should sometimes just mentally rehearse the
> actions required and touching the relevant handles. If there is time
> actually open canopy (side hinged only, front opening there is usually a
> jettison handle) and undo straps (that is the correct order because if the
> glider is wildly gyrating you may find it difficult to operate the opening
> handles after undoing the harness). Don't forget to re-do the entire
> cockpit check.
>
> Yes, immediately on exit, pull the ripcord. That was the advice given to
> me in 1973 by Staff Sergeant Danny Wright SASR  in 1973 who also taught me
> how to repack a parachute. His other word were " then relax and enjoy the
> ride" as a great part of the risk is over.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 08:56 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/related;
>  boundary="=_NextPart_000_0022_01D34DDC.2B22EF50"
> Content-Language: en-au
>
>
> Mike and All,
> Very nicely put. I have never before seen so many elements of the topic
> covered in so few words.
>
> DMcD, seemed to cover most of the other practical elements, in his earlier
> post, with useful additional comment in his 2nd post.
>
> In my experience, I have yet to meet a competition  glider pilot who does
> not take his parachute condition and use very seriously. Statistics quite
> undeniably show that a pilot from this group will most often need to use
> his/her parachute. [There is nothing quite like incentive, is there?}
> However your comment on the general situation  “*Yes, probably parachutes
> aren’t taken seriously enough by glider pilots.*” seems to me to be quite
> valid.
>
> DMcD, I have seen (on YouTube), parachutists in  Fords, Chevs, and all
> sorts of other autos, being dropped  into space, but never with a Harley.
> What does this mean?
>
> Cheers,
> Gary
>
> *From:* Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au
> ] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 25 October 2017 7:15 PM
> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute
>
> Here's the story on the National Parachutes we've sold for the last  28
> years.
>
> They are lightweight and comfortable and while some details have changed
> they are the same basic design/size/weight in all that time
>
> The factory considers a life of 20 years is reasonable and won't repack
> them after that but your rigger can inspect the parachute and can return it
> to service if it is in his/her opinion revealed to be in airworthy
> condition as THERE IS NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL
>
> PARACHUTES.
>
> National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes to suit all weights of
> pilots. The N360 is suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 95Kg,
> the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.
>
> While National chute packs  are available in Navy, Black and Red we
> recommend the Black or Navy as the colours seem more durable.
>
> The condition of the parachute depends on use and care. In a 7 day
> commercial operation it is doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. In
> private operation where the thing is unlikely to do more than 2000 hours in
> actual use and you keep it in a bag until ready to wear
>
> and put it back  in the bag after wearing it will likely be fine. Consider
> also that the parachute may be stored in a dry cupboard for some years of
> that time and is probably flown for only half the year or a bit more. Hard
> calender life limits are stupid.
>
> Yes, probably parachutes aren't taken seriously enough by glider pilots.
> Is there any proper training done, like before the first lesson in a
> glider? We've seen people wearing National chutes where the leg straps
> weren't tightened and the chest strap was a "chin" strap.
>
> Too bad about your head when you pull the ripcord but your headless body
> should make it to the ground just fine.
>
> Also asked competition pilots what they will do 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[DMcD]

>>>then relax and enjoy the ride" as a great part of the risk is over.

Ah! The late great Angelo Crapanzono, inventor of the pulled apex
canopy was asked about when to deploy. His reply was… (in Italian
English)

"When the sh*t is up to here" … points to forehead. "Then maybe the
sh*t will be up to here…" points to bridge of nose… "or here…" points
just below nose.

I think there must be a moment or two of relief that your chute has
opened, followed by some time of alarm as you try and learn to steer
the canopy and remember the drill for landing into wind, away from
trees, buildings, water, animals, traffic etc. etc.

D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[DMcD]

>>Very nicely put. I have never before seen so many elements of the topic 
>>covered in so few words.

One thing G Dale said is that using a parachute should be considered
to be a normal part of gliding. As normal as doing an outlanding. This
is his opinion after having deployed his.

G's suggestion is that if you decided to bail out, if possible you
bunt the glider over… push the stick forwards so you fall out. I guess
if the tailplane is missing, all you have to do is coordinate undoing
your seat belt.

D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Mike Borgelt]

Gary,

Both competition pilots I mentioned just hadn't 
given the parachute and bailout procedure any 
thought before we mentioned it. The people I 
mentioned who were wearing the parachutes 
incorrectly were also flying in a contest. Carol 
adjusted the harness properly on a couple of 
people. When we went back a couple of years later 
they had gone back to wearing them improperly. 
When we had first found out about the improper 
wear we actually contacted GFA with a suggested 
bulletin. I think it got sent out. NAtional 
Parachutes actually come with a nice manual. If 
you have a National Parachute, have you read it?


While waiting for a launch you should sometimes 
just mentally rehearse the actions required and 
touching the relevant handles. If there is time 
actually open canopy (side hinged only, front 
opening there is usually a jettison handle) and 
undo straps (that is the correct order because if 
the glider is wildly gyrating you may find it 
difficult to operate the opening handles after 
undoing the harness). Don't forget to re-do the entire cockpit check.


Yes, immediately on exit, pull the ripcord. That 
was the advice given to me in 1973 by Staff 
Sergeant Danny Wright SASR  in 1973 who also 
taught me how to repack a parachute. His other 
word were " then relax and enjoy the ride" as a great part of the risk is over.


Mike









08:56 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_0022_01D34DDC.2B22EF50"
Content-Language: en-au

Mike and All,
Very nicely put. I have never before seen so 
many elements of the topic covered in so few words.


DMcD, seemed to cover most of the other 
practical elements, in his earlier post, with 
useful additional comment in his 2nd post.


In my experience, I have yet to meet a 
competition  glider pilot who does not take his 
parachute condition and use very seriously. 
Statistics quite undeniably show that a pilot 
from this group will most often need to use 
his/her parachute. [There is nothing quite like 
incentive, is there?} However your comment on 
the general situation  “Yes, probably parachutes 
aren’t taken seriously enough by glider pilots.” 
seems to me to be quite valid.


DMcD, I have seen (on YouTube), parachutists 
in  Fords, Chevs, and all sorts of other autos, 
being dropped  into space, but never with a Harley. What does this mean?


Cheers,
Gary

From: Aus-soaring 
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt

Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2017 7:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

Here's the story on the National Parachutes we've sold for the last  28 years.

They are lightweight and comfortable and while 
some details have changed they are the same 
basic design/size/weight in all that time


The factory considers a life of 20 years is 
reasonable and won't repack them after that but 
your rigger can inspect the parachute and can 
return it to service if it is in his/her opinion 
revealed to be in airworthy condition as THERE 
IS NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL


PARACHUTES.

National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes 
to suit all weights of pilots. The N360 is 
suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 
95Kg, the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.


While National chute packs  are available in 
Navy, Black and Red we recommend the Black or 
Navy as the colours seem more durable.


The condition of the parachute depends on use 
and care. In a 7 day commercial operation it is 
doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. In 
private operation where the thing is unlikely to 
do more than 2000 hours in actual use and you 
keep it in a bag until ready to wear


and put it back  in the bag after wearing it 
will likely be fine. Consider also that the 
parachute may be stored in a dry cupboard for 
some years of that time and is probably flown 
for only half the year or a bit more. Hard calender life limits are stupid.


Yes, probably parachutes aren't taken seriously 
enough by glider pilots. Is there any proper 
training done, like before the first lesson in a 
glider? We've seen people wearing National 
chutes where the leg straps weren't tightened 
and the chest strap was a "chin" strap.


Too bad about your head when you pull the 
ripcord but your headless body should make it to the ground just fine.


Also asked competition pilots what they will do 
if they hear a bang and the glider pitches down 
and doesn't respond to the elevator. The first 
went and bought a new parachute and rehearsed 
the bailout procedure and admitted he hadn't 
paid any attention to that before.


The second was a real smartarse and laughed it 
off by making a joke of it to cover up his lack of forethought and preparation.


Do remember that bailing out of a damaged glider 
is "attempted suicide to avoid certain death". 
The US military reckoned the ejection seat in 
the F-15 saved the 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Paul Mander]

Interesting discussion. I have a limited number of the inflatable cushions
that Harry mentions, made to a high standard by my sons. 0417 447 974 if
you want one. All the best, Paul Mander

On 26 October 2017 at 10:42, harry medlicott 
wrote:

>
> Hi All,
>
> Much has been usefully written about parachutes and their care. How would
> you like a few reluctant comments from someone who has used one to save
> ones life?
>
> Firstly, exiting from a disabled glider descending at 100 feet per second
> ( as recorded by the data logger) is totally different from a jumping from
> a stable platform in level flight.
>
> After finally exiting the glider I found myself rotating as in a spin
> dryer. The chute, although attached as one  normally would,  moved around
> violently making finding the D ring difficult and is was necessary to look
> carefully for it. I would recommend that a pilot get a hand on the D ring
> as he was exiting.
>
> On exiting I remembered to adopt a position with the arms and legs
> outstretched and wait until ones position stabilized.  Quickly realized
> that I would reach the ground before this happened due to the  violent
> rotation. My understanding now is that it is best to pull the D ring as
> soon as you are clear of the glider.
>
> Exiting a glider while it is unstable and you are probably subject to G
> forces can be quite difficult. If moving the control column forward inverts
> the glider a good chance you will fall out.
>
> A recommendation I have heard is if it appears you will reach the ground
> before exiting is to lean forward and pull the D ring. A good chance  the
> chute will pull you from the glider.
>
> The statistics are that 50% of uninjured glider pilots successfully deploy
> their chute when the accident occurs at 3,000 ft. Below this the chances
> diminish rapidly. Age also plays apart.  I now have an inflatable bag
> underneath me, economically supplied by Paul Mander. Commercial units,
> although expensive are available. ( how much would you be prepared to pay
> as you struggle to  exit a glider)
>
> Prevention is better than cure. A functioning Flarm and even more
> importantly, a disciplined lookout are prerequisites to flying safely.
> Competition conditions which reduce gaggling also reduce the chances of a
> midair collision.
>
> These comments are quite apart from the usual advice given to pilots re
> exiting a glider when it is disabled. I hope they are of interest
>
> Harry Medlicott
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 25/10/2017 7:14 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
>
> Here's the story on the National Parachutes we've sold for the last  28
> years.
>
> They are lightweight and comfortable and while some details have changed
> they are the same basic design/size/weight in all that time
>
> The factory considers a life of 20 years is reasonable and won't repack
> them after that but your rigger can inspect the parachute and can return it
> to service if it is in his/her opinion revealed to be in airworthy
> condition as THERE IS NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL
>
> PARACHUTES.
>
> National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes to suit all weights of
> pilots. The N360 is suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 95Kg,
> the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.
>
> While National chute packs  are available in Navy, Black and Red we
> recommend the Black or Navy as the colours seem more durable.
>
> The condition of the parachute depends on use and care. In a 7 day
> commercial operation it is doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. In
> private operation where the thing is unlikely to do more than 2000 hours in
> actual use and you keep it in a bag until ready to wear
>
> and put it back  in the bag after wearing it will likely be fine. Consider
> also that the parachute may be stored in a dry cupboard for some years of
> that time and is probably flown for only half the year or a bit more. Hard
> calender life limits are stupid.
>
> Yes, probably parachutes aren't taken seriously enough by glider pilots.
> Is there any proper training done, like before the first lesson in a
> glider? We've seen people wearing National chutes where the leg straps
> weren't tightened and the chest strap was a "chin" strap.
>
> Too bad about your head when you pull the ripcord but your headless body
> should make it to the ground just fine.
>
> Also asked competition pilots what they will do if they hear a bang and
> the glider pitches down and doesn't respond to the elevator. The first went
> and bought a new parachute and rehearsed the bailout procedure and admitted
> he hadn't paid any attention to that before.
>
> The second was a real smartarse and laughed it off by making a joke of it
> to cover up his lack of forethought and preparation.
>
> Do remember that bailing out of a damaged glider is "attempted suicide to
> avoid certain death". The US military reckoned the ejection seat in the
> F-15 saved the pilot's life 75% of the time it was 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[harry medlicott]

Hi All,

Much has been usefully written about parachutes and their care. How 
would you like a few reluctant comments from someone who has used one to 
save ones life?


Firstly, exiting from a disabled glider descending at 100 feet per 
second ( as recorded by the data logger) is totally different from a 
jumping from a stable platform in level flight.


After finally exiting the glider I found myself rotating as in a spin 
dryer. The chute, although attached as one  normally would, moved around 
violently making finding the D ring difficult and is was necessary to 
look carefully for it. I would recommend that a pilot get a hand on the 
D ring as he was exiting.


On exiting I remembered to adopt a position with the arms and legs 
outstretched and wait until ones position stabilized.  Quickly realized 
that I would reach the ground before this happened due to the  violent 
rotation. My understanding now is that it is best to pull the D ring as 
soon as you are clear of the glider.


Exiting a glider while it is unstable and you are probably subject to G 
forces can be quite difficult. If moving the control column forward 
inverts the glider a good chance you will fall out.


A recommendation I have heard is if it appears you will reach the ground 
before exiting is to lean forward and pull the D ring. A good chance  
the chute will pull you from the glider.


The statistics are that 50% of uninjured glider pilots successfully 
deploy their chute when the accident occurs at 3,000 ft. Below this the 
chances diminish rapidly. Age also plays apart.  I now have an 
inflatable bag underneath me, economically supplied by Paul Mander. 
Commercial units, although expensive are available. ( how much would you 
be prepared to pay as you struggle to  exit a glider)


Prevention is better than cure. A functioning Flarm and even more 
importantly, a disciplined lookout are prerequisites to flying safely. 
Competition conditions which reduce gaggling also reduce the chances of 
a midair collision.


These comments are quite apart from the usual advice given to pilots re 
exiting a glider when it is disabled. I hope they are of interest


Harry Medlicott









On 25/10/2017 7:14 PM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
Here's the story on the National Parachutes we've sold for the last 28 
years.


They are lightweight and comfortable and while some details have 
changed they are the same basic design/size/weight in all that time


The factory considers a life of 20 years is reasonable and won't 
repack them after that but your rigger can inspect the parachute and 
can return it to service if it is in his/her opinion revealed to be in 
airworthy condition as THERE IS NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL


PARACHUTES.

National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes to suit all weights of 
pilots. The N360 is suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 
95Kg, the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.


While National chute packs  are available in Navy, Black and Red we 
recommend the Black or Navy as the colours seem more durable.


The condition of the parachute depends on use and care. In a 7 day 
commercial operation it is doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. 
In private operation where the thing is unlikely to do more than 2000 
hours in actual use and you keep it in a bag until ready to wear


and put it back  in the bag after wearing it will likely be fine. 
Consider also that the parachute may be stored in a dry cupboard for 
some years of that time and is probably flown for only half the year 
or a bit more. Hard calender life limits are stupid.


Yes, probably parachutes aren't taken seriously enough by glider 
pilots. Is there any proper training done, like before the first 
lesson in a glider? We've seen people wearing National chutes where 
the leg straps weren't tightened and the chest strap was a "chin" strap.


Too bad about your head when you pull the ripcord but your headless 
body should make it to the ground just fine.


Also asked competition pilots what they will do if they hear a bang 
and the glider pitches down and doesn't respond to the elevator. The 
first went and bought a new parachute and rehearsed the bailout 
procedure and admitted he hadn't paid any attention to that before.


The second was a real smartarse and laughed it off by making a joke of 
it to cover up his lack of forethought and preparation.


Do remember that bailing out of a damaged glider is "attempted suicide 
to avoid certain death". The US military reckoned the ejection seat in 
the F-15 saved the pilot's life 75% of the time it was used. The 
outstanding Russian K36D seat was better at 93%.


I'm pretty sure gliding  is somewhere between those numbers.

Mike








At 05:41 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:

Point taken.Â
I have the highest regard for Nigel Brennan.  If he says the chute 
is ok I am happy to wear it.


On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Ron Sanders > wrote:


 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Gary Stevenson]

Mike and All,

Very nicely put. I have never before seen so many elements of the topic
covered in so few words. 

 

DMcD, seemed to cover most of the other practical elements, in his earlier
post, with useful additional comment in his 2nd post. 

 

In my experience, I have yet to meet a competition  glider pilot who does
not take his parachute condition and use very seriously. Statistics quite
undeniably show that a pilot from this group will most often need to use
his/her parachute. [There is nothing quite like incentive, is there?}
However your comment on the general situation  “Yes, probably parachutes
aren’t taken seriously enough by glider pilots.” seems to me to be quite
valid. 

 

DMcD, I have seen (on YouTube), parachutists in  Fords, Chevs, and all sorts
of other autos, being dropped  into space, but never with a Harley. What
does this mean?

 

Cheers,

Gary

 

From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of Mike Borgelt
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2017 7:15 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

 

Here's the story on the National Parachutes we've sold for the last  28
years.

They are lightweight and comfortable and while some details have changed
they are the same basic design/size/weight in all that time

The factory considers a life of 20 years is reasonable and won't repack them
after that but your rigger can inspect the parachute and can return it to
service if it is in his/her opinion revealed to be in airworthy condition as
THERE IS NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL 

PARACHUTES.

National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes to suit all weights of
pilots. The N360 is suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 95Kg,
the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.

While National chute packs  are available in Navy, Black and Red we
recommend the Black or Navy as the colours seem more durable.

The condition of the parachute depends on use and care. In a 7 day
commercial operation it is doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. In
private operation where the thing is unlikely to do more than 2000 hours in
actual use and you keep it in a bag until ready to wear 

and put it back  in the bag after wearing it will likely be fine. Consider
also that the parachute may be stored in a dry cupboard for some years of
that time and is probably flown for only half the year or a bit more. Hard
calender life limits are stupid.

Yes, probably parachutes aren't taken seriously enough by glider pilots. Is
there any proper training done, like before the first lesson in a glider?
We've seen people wearing National chutes where the leg straps weren't
tightened and the chest strap was a "chin" strap.  

Too bad about your head when you pull the ripcord but your headless body
should make it to the ground just fine.

Also asked competition pilots what they will do if they hear a bang and the
glider pitches down and doesn't respond to the elevator. The first went and
bought a new parachute and rehearsed the bailout procedure and admitted he
hadn't paid any attention to that before. 

The second was a real smartarse and laughed it off by making a joke of it to
cover up his lack of forethought and preparation.

Do remember that bailing out of a damaged glider is "attempted suicide to
avoid certain death". The US military reckoned the ejection seat in the F-15
saved the pilot's life 75% of the time it was used. The outstanding Russian
K36D seat was better at 93%.

I'm pretty sure gliding  is somewhere between those numbers.

Mike








At 05:41 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:



Point taken.  
I have the highest regard for Nigel Brennan.  If he says the chute is ok I
am happy to wear it.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Ron Sanders  wrote:

Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr Nigel Brennan who re packed and
inspected the chute??

Ron

On 25 October 2017 at 13:52, DMcD  wrote:

>>Hi guys, do not bother sold in 6 minutes!!

Lets hope the buyer does not have to use it!

Hang glider parachutes have a slightly harder time than glider

parachutes, partially because the pack is less dense and lets in more

UV, though many parachute manufacturers wrap the parachute inside a

foil folder to help protect it. The fabric is also degraded by sweat

and other factors. Some fabric and some colours degrade much faster

than others too. What colour is your chute? Is it nice and bright so

it can be spotted easily in the air or on the ground or have you ever

looked?

I don't think most of us take parachutes particularly seriously

enough. For example, your parachute size should be related to several

factors, including your age and weight. Most parachute sizes are for

young people weighing an ISO standard 75 kgs who can jump off a 4

metre wall and not suffer any injury. And you?

The older you are and the heavier you are, the larger the area of your

canopy needs to be. Of 

Re: [Aus-soaring] New storm video from Mike Olbinski

[Peter Champness]

Thanks Anthony

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Anthony Smith <
anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote:

> Teal spotted it first. I haven't seen it come up on the list yet...
>
> Lots of exciting and energetic weather:
>
> https://vimeo.com/239593389
>
> Anthony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: augc-people-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
> [mailto:augc-people-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Teal
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2017 8:40 PM
> To: augc-peo...@lists.internode.on.net
> Subject: [Augc-people] New storm video from Mike Olbinski
>
> Brand new and just uploaded this evening; quite possibly his best storm
> chaser movie yet.  Do yourself a favour and check it out. It's absolutely
> gorgeous! https://vimeo.com/239593389
>
> Teal
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
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[Aus-soaring] New storm video from Mike Olbinski

[Anthony Smith]

Teal spotted it first. I haven't seen it come up on the list yet...

Lots of exciting and energetic weather:

https://vimeo.com/239593389 

Anthony

-Original Message-
From: augc-people-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:augc-people-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Teal
Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2017 8:40 PM
To: augc-peo...@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: [Augc-people] New storm video from Mike Olbinski

Brand new and just uploaded this evening; quite possibly his best storm
chaser movie yet.  Do yourself a favour and check it out. It's absolutely
gorgeous! https://vimeo.com/239593389

Teal


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Anthony Smith]

I do recall a day where I was giving a brief to an advanced trainee at a
regatta.  We were going for a run around the set course for the day in the
Bergfalke as a coaching flight.  I went through the lot: how to wear the
chute, how to get out of the aircraft in an emergency, how to deploy the
chute, how to land and what to do after you are back on the ground.

Part way through the brief I had attracted a small crowd of onlookers.

At the end of the brief one of the onlookers said "Wow, no one has ever told
me that before!"

He was wearing an expensive seat cushion.

Anthony

-Original Message-
From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf
Of DMcD
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2017 8:20 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.

Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

>>Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr Nigel Brennan who re packed
and inspected the chute??

Forward away. There's nothing much new or controversial in the comments. The
last paragraphs are quotes from others. This is not meant as a personal
comment about the parachute you are selling, it's a general comment about
our attitude to parachutes.

While repacking some hang glider parachutes with a friend, a professor in
fact, I was unable to throw his chute. His comment was 'it doesn't matter, I
have absolutely no intention of throwing my chute.'

Under those circumstances, it doesn't matter what parachute you carry or
even, if like some hang glider pilots, you have a brick wrapped up in a
towel in your parachute bag to pass an inspection. But if you want the
parachute to open when you need it, then take every care.

Paraglider people frequently throw a reserve parachute for practice.
They also use them a lot. Hang glider people also practice throwing chutes,
though not normally while flying. Both are told to rehearse their deployment
routine on every flight, as soon as the glider is airborne and stable. What
do we do in gliding? I think none of the above.

I went to a parachute clinic some time ago. I thought it was to teach
repacking. It began at 2 and finished after midnight and there were plenty
of topics still to discuss. The repacking part took only 30 minutes or so.
That was the easy part.

If a rigger says that a chute is fine to use, fine but being a sceptic, I
would take a broad range of opinions and if I wanted to use a canopy in
anger, make sure it was not 25 years old!

D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[DMcD]

>>Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr Nigel Brennan who re packed and 
>>inspected the chute??

Forward away. There's nothing much new or controversial in the
comments. The last paragraphs are quotes from others. This is not
meant as a personal comment about the parachute you are selling, it's
a general comment about our attitude to parachutes.

While repacking some hang glider parachutes with a friend, a professor
in fact, I was unable to throw his chute. His comment was 'it doesn't
matter, I have absolutely no intention of throwing my chute.'

Under those circumstances, it doesn't matter what parachute you carry
or even, if like some hang glider pilots, you have a brick wrapped up
in a towel in your parachute bag to pass an inspection. But if you
want the parachute to open when you need it, then take every care.

Paraglider people frequently throw a reserve parachute for practice.
They also use them a lot. Hang glider people also practice throwing
chutes, though not normally while flying. Both are told to rehearse
their deployment routine on every flight, as soon as the glider is
airborne and stable. What do we do in gliding? I think none of the
above.

I went to a parachute clinic some time ago. I thought it was to teach
repacking. It began at 2 and finished after midnight and there were
plenty of topics still to discuss. The repacking part took only 30
minutes or so. That was the easy part.

If a rigger says that a chute is fine to use, fine but being a
sceptic, I would take a broad range of opinions and if I wanted to use
a canopy in anger, make sure it was not 25 years old!

D
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Mike Borgelt]

Here's the story on the National Parachutes we've sold for the last  28 years.

They are lightweight and comfortable and while 
some details have changed they are the same basic 
design/size/weight in all that time


The factory considers a life of 20 years is 
reasonable and won't repack them after that but 
your rigger can inspect the parachute and can 
return it to service if it is in his/her opinion 
revealed to be in airworthy condition as THERE IS 
NO LIFE LIMITING AD ON NATIONAL


PARACHUTES.

National parachutes also come in 4 canopy sizes 
to suit all weights of pilots. The N360 is 
suitable for up to 75 Kg pilots, the N425 up to 
95Kg, the National Flat to 100Kg and the N490 to 110Kg.


While National chute packs  are available in 
Navy, Black and Red we recommend the Black or 
Navy as the colours seem more durable.


The condition of the parachute depends on use and 
care. In a 7 day commercial operation it is 
doubtful if a parachute will last 20 years. In 
private operation where the thing is unlikely to 
do more than 2000 hours in actual use and you 
keep it in a bag until ready to wear


and put it back  in the bag after wearing it will 
likely be fine. Consider also that the parachute 
may be stored in a dry cupboard for some years of 
that time and is probably flown for only half the 
year or a bit more. Hard calender life limits are stupid.


Yes, probably parachutes aren't taken seriously 
enough by glider pilots. Is there any proper 
training done, like before the first lesson in a 
glider? We've seen people wearing National chutes 
where the leg straps weren't tightened and the 
chest strap was a "chin" strap.


Too bad about your head when you pull the ripcord 
but your headless body should make it to the ground just fine.


Also asked competition pilots what they will do 
if they hear a bang and the glider pitches down 
and doesn't respond to the elevator. The first 
went and bought a new parachute and rehearsed the 
bailout procedure and admitted he hadn't paid any attention to that before.


The second was a real smartarse and laughed it 
off by making a joke of it to cover up his lack of forethought and preparation.


Do remember that bailing out of a damaged glider 
is "attempted suicide to avoid certain death". 
The US military reckoned the ejection seat in the 
F-15 saved the pilot's life 75% of the time it 
was used. The outstanding Russian K36D seat was better at 93%.


I'm pretty sure gliding  is somewhere between those numbers.

Mike








At 05:41 PM 10/25/2017, you wrote:

Point taken.Â
I have the highest regard for Nigel 
Brennan.  If he says the chute is ok I am happy to wear it.


On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Ron Sanders 
<resand...@gmail.com> wrote:
Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr 
Nigel Brennan who re packed and inspected the chute??


Ron

On 25 October 2017 at 13:52, DMcD 
<slutsw...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>Hi guys, do not bother sold in 6 minutes!!

Lets hope the buyer does not have to use it!

Hang glider parachutes have a slightly harder time than glider
parachutes, partially because the pack is less dense and lets in more
UV, though many parachute manufacturers wrap the parachute inside a
foil folder to help protect it. The fabric is also degraded by sweat
and other factors. Some fabric and some colours degrade much faster
than others too. What colour is your chute? Is it nice and bright so
it can be spotted easily in the air or on the ground or have you ever
looked?

I don't think most of us take parachutes particularly seriously
enough. For example, your parachute size should be related to several
factors, including your age and weight. Most parachute sizes are for
young people weighing an ISO standard 75 kgs who can jump off a 4
metre wall and not suffer any injury. And you?

The older you are and the heavier you are, the larger the area of your
canopy needs to be. Of course, there's a trade off in that larger
canopies open more slowly, so the older you are, the higher you need
to be to safely deploy your canopy.

I guess it is like Harley riders. They wear poor quality open face
helmets to protect poor quality brains.

"I'm a licensed rigger.  In my experience, the life will be limited primarily
by how much direct sunlight, dust, and grit the parachute sees.  If you take
good care of the canopy and container, and keep the system out of the direct
sunlight, it'll last quite a while.  Other responders have suggested a
practical life span of 15-20 years, and that's not too bad a range, IMHO.
However, if the system has been abused, it could be unusable after just a few
years.

Pay attention to the harness too, as it tends to suffer from abrasion and from
the pilot's sweat.  It's not that unusual to 
see harnesses and containers that

become unusable before the canopy."

"In the UK the parachute manufacturers and riggers are not allowed to
re-pack parachutes over 25 years old.  ie 

Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Peter Champness]

Point taken.
I have the highest regard for Nigel Brennan.  If he says the chute is ok I
am happy to wear it.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 6:28 PM, Ron Sanders  wrote:

> Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr Nigel Brennan who re packed
> and inspected the chute??
>
> Ron
>
> On 25 October 2017 at 13:52, DMcD  wrote:
>
>> >>Hi guys, do not bother sold in 6 minutes!!
>>
>> Lets hope the buyer does not have to use it!
>>
>> Hang glider parachutes have a slightly harder time than glider
>> parachutes, partially because the pack is less dense and lets in more
>> UV, though many parachute manufacturers wrap the parachute inside a
>> foil folder to help protect it. The fabric is also degraded by sweat
>> and other factors. Some fabric and some colours degrade much faster
>> than others too. What colour is your chute? Is it nice and bright so
>> it can be spotted easily in the air or on the ground or have you ever
>> looked?
>>
>> I don't think most of us take parachutes particularly seriously
>> enough. For example, your parachute size should be related to several
>> factors, including your age and weight. Most parachute sizes are for
>> young people weighing an ISO standard 75 kgs who can jump off a 4
>> metre wall and not suffer any injury. And you?
>>
>> The older you are and the heavier you are, the larger the area of your
>> canopy needs to be. Of course, there's a trade off in that larger
>> canopies open more slowly, so the older you are, the higher you need
>> to be to safely deploy your canopy.
>>
>> I guess it is like Harley riders. They wear poor quality open face
>> helmets to protect poor quality brains.
>>
>> "I'm a licensed rigger.  In my experience, the life will be limited
>> primarily
>> by how much direct sunlight, dust, and grit the parachute sees.  If you
>> take
>> good care of the canopy and container, and keep the system out of the
>> direct
>> sunlight, it'll last quite a while.  Other responders have suggested a
>> practical life span of 15-20 years, and that's not too bad a range, IMHO.
>> However, if the system has been abused, it could be unusable after just a
>> few
>> years.
>>
>> Pay attention to the harness too, as it tends to suffer from abrasion and
>> from
>> the pilot's sweat.  It's not that unusual to see harnesses and containers
>> that
>> become unusable before the canopy."
>>
>> "In the UK the parachute manufacturers and riggers are not allowed to
>> re-pack parachutes over 25 years old.  ie once over 25 years, you have to
>> throw it away.. in any event most parachutes that age that I have
>> seen are big, heavy, and very uncomfortable to wear.  "
>> ___
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>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au
>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Parachute

[Ron Sanders]

Do you mind if i forward your comments to Mr Nigel Brennan who re packed
and inspected the chute??

Ron

On 25 October 2017 at 13:52, DMcD  wrote:

> >>Hi guys, do not bother sold in 6 minutes!!
>
> Lets hope the buyer does not have to use it!
>
> Hang glider parachutes have a slightly harder time than glider
> parachutes, partially because the pack is less dense and lets in more
> UV, though many parachute manufacturers wrap the parachute inside a
> foil folder to help protect it. The fabric is also degraded by sweat
> and other factors. Some fabric and some colours degrade much faster
> than others too. What colour is your chute? Is it nice and bright so
> it can be spotted easily in the air or on the ground or have you ever
> looked?
>
> I don't think most of us take parachutes particularly seriously
> enough. For example, your parachute size should be related to several
> factors, including your age and weight. Most parachute sizes are for
> young people weighing an ISO standard 75 kgs who can jump off a 4
> metre wall and not suffer any injury. And you?
>
> The older you are and the heavier you are, the larger the area of your
> canopy needs to be. Of course, there's a trade off in that larger
> canopies open more slowly, so the older you are, the higher you need
> to be to safely deploy your canopy.
>
> I guess it is like Harley riders. They wear poor quality open face
> helmets to protect poor quality brains.
>
> "I'm a licensed rigger.  In my experience, the life will be limited
> primarily
> by how much direct sunlight, dust, and grit the parachute sees.  If you
> take
> good care of the canopy and container, and keep the system out of the
> direct
> sunlight, it'll last quite a while.  Other responders have suggested a
> practical life span of 15-20 years, and that's not too bad a range, IMHO.
> However, if the system has been abused, it could be unusable after just a
> few
> years.
>
> Pay attention to the harness too, as it tends to suffer from abrasion and
> from
> the pilot's sweat.  It's not that unusual to see harnesses and containers
> that
> become unusable before the canopy."
>
> "In the UK the parachute manufacturers and riggers are not allowed to
> re-pack parachutes over 25 years old.  ie once over 25 years, you have to
> throw it away.. in any event most parachutes that age that I have
> seen are big, heavy, and very uncomfortable to wear.  "
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