Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4

[Joerg Wunsch]

As Element Green wrote:

> Thank you for your reply.  I downgraded the firmware to 7.21 (from AVR
> Studio 5).

I just upgraded another Dragon to 7.38 (decimal), and it works without 
troubles using AVaRICE (SVN version) on my ATxmega16D4 board.

> I attempted to use the Dragon to connect to 2 different XMEGA devices, one
> is a custom PCB I made with an xmega16d4, the other is a development board
> with an xmega128d4 using AVR Studio 7 in programming mode.  It could read
> the reference voltage but not the device ID.

That somehow smells like connection issues on the PDI level.

The target voltage is sensed on the Dragon itself, without the need 
for a working PDI link.  This error code 0xAE is likely an indication 
for PDI link issues - but still, you might ask Atmel explicitly about 
that.  While the JTAGICEmkII protocol is officially documented in an 
appnote, the Xmega protocol isn't.

How long's your cable?  The levelshifters/drivers on the Dragon are 
known to be fairly weak.  In general, the cables that come with an STK500 
work well, they are about 15 cm long.  Anything longer might cause 
troubles.
-- 
cheers, Joerg   .-.-.   --... ...--   -.. .  DL8DTL

http://www.sax.de/~joerg/
Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-)

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Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4

[Element Green]

Hello Joerg,

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:35 AM, Joerg Wunsch  wrote:

> As Element Green wrote:
>
> > Thank you for your reply.  I downgraded the firmware to 7.21 (from AVR
> > Studio 5).
>
> I just upgraded another Dragon to 7.38 (decimal), and it works without
> troubles using AVaRICE (SVN version) on my ATxmega16D4 board.
>
>

Good to hear that it's not related to the version.



> > I attempted to use the Dragon to connect to 2 different XMEGA devices,
> one
> > is a custom PCB I made with an xmega16d4, the other is a development
> board
> > with an xmega128d4 using AVR Studio 7 in programming mode.  It could read
> > the reference voltage but not the device ID.
>
> That somehow smells like connection issues on the PDI level.
>
> The target voltage is sensed on the Dragon itself, without the need
> for a working PDI link.  This error code 0xAE is likely an indication
> for PDI link issues - but still, you might ask Atmel explicitly about
> that.  While the JTAGICEmkII protocol is officially documented in an
> appnote, the Xmega protocol isn't.
>
> How long's your cable?  The levelshifters/drivers on the Dragon are
> known to be fairly weak.  In general, the cables that come with an STK500
> work well, they are about 15 cm long.  Anything longer might cause
> troubles.
>


I had that thought as well about the cable length after reading something
to that effect on a forum post.  My guess is that that is the issue now
that you mention it again, though I got sidetracked by the thought that it
was a version incompatibility.  The cable I have came with a ZeptoProg II
programmer and is probably about 10 inches long.  I'll get some shorter
ones and see if that makes a difference.  Perhaps the 0xAE code can be used
to identify cable length issues.  Guess I will see.



> --
> cheers, Joerg   .-.-.   --... ...--   -.. .  DL8DTL
>
>

Cheers!

Element Green
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Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4

[Element Green]

Hello Joerg,

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Element Green 
wrote:

>
>> How long's your cable?  The levelshifters/drivers on the Dragon are
>> known to be fairly weak.  In general, the cables that come with an STK500
>> work well, they are about 15 cm long.  Anything longer might cause
>> troubles.
>>
>
>
> I had that thought as well about the cable length after reading something
> to that effect on a forum post.  My guess is that that is the issue now
> that you mention it again, though I got sidetracked by the thought that it
> was a version incompatibility.  The cable I have came with a ZeptoProg II
> programmer and is probably about 10 inches long.  I'll get some shorter
> ones and see if that makes a difference.  Perhaps the 0xAE code can be used
> to identify cable length issues.  Guess I will see.
>
>

So I shortened the cable by removing the connector, cut it to about 4
inches and then put the connector back on.  It still was getting the same
error code with my custom PCB, but it goes through a motherboard
interconnect plus a few extra inches.  So I then tried it on the little
development board I have and it came back with a device ID which is
currently unsupported (the xmega128d4) which it was not doing with a longer
cable.  So it seems like it would likely work if the interconnect was not
there.  I cut the cable to 2 inches and still same 0xAE error code.

I'm thinking of getting an MKII clone like this one since they seem to be
available for under $43 online:
http://www.wvshare.com/product/USB-AVR-JTAGICE-XPII.htm

Any idea if those will work OK with debugging or if it might work better
than the Dragon in regards to cable length?  Guess the easiest thing to do
is just try it.



>
>
>> --
>> cheers, Joerg   .-.-.   --... ...--   -.. .  DL8DTL
>>
>>
>

Cheers.

Element
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Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4

[Arnim Littek]

FWIW, I’m operating a Dragon to an ATxmega128a4u over ca. 40mm of ribbon cable 
reliably.  You also have a speed setting in avrdude to fiddle with.  Mine is 
running at
/usr/bin/avrdude -B 2.0 -p atxmega128a4u -P usb -c dragon_pdi
but that can be slowed down in problematic cases.

Arnim


From: Element Green [mailto:elem...@elementsofsound.org]
Sent: Wednesday, 21 October 2015 12:40 p.m.
To: Joerg Wunsch;
Subject: Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4

Hello Joerg,

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Element Green 
> wrote:

How long's your cable?  The levelshifters/drivers on the Dragon are
known to be fairly weak.  In general, the cables that come with an STK500
work well, they are about 15 cm long.  Anything longer might cause
troubles.


I had that thought as well about the cable length after reading something to 
that effect on a forum post.  My guess is that that is the issue now that you 
mention it again, though I got sidetracked by the thought that it was a version 
incompatibility.  The cable I have came with a ZeptoProg II programmer and is 
probably about 10 inches long.  I'll get some shorter ones and see if that 
makes a difference.  Perhaps the 0xAE code can be used to identify cable length 
issues.  Guess I will see.



So I shortened the cable by removing the connector, cut it to about 4 inches 
and then put the connector back on.  It still was getting the same error code 
with my custom PCB, but it goes through a motherboard interconnect plus a few 
extra inches.  So I then tried it on the little development board I have and it 
came back with a device ID which is currently unsupported (the xmega128d4) 
which it was not doing with a longer cable.  So it seems like it would likely 
work if the interconnect was not there.  I cut the cable to 2 inches and still 
same 0xAE error code.

I'm thinking of getting an MKII clone like this one since they seem to be 
available for under $43 online:
http://www.wvshare.com/product/USB-AVR-JTAGICE-XPII.htm

Any idea if those will work OK with debugging or if it might work better than 
the Dragon in regards to cable length?  Guess the easiest thing to do is just 
try it.



--
cheers, Joerg   .-.-.   --... ...--   -.. .  DL8DTL



Cheers.

Element

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Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4

[Element Green]

Thank you for the info.  I just tried it again with avrdude with the short
2" cable and the xmega128d4 development board and it managed to get pretty
far in the programming process (unlike before), but failed on data
verification.  It still completely fails to even start with my development
board with the same 0xAE error code as avarice.

I'm thinking of looking into a different programmer.  This one seems too
problematic.  Not a lot of options though it seems for debugging over PDI
in Linux.

I was mistaken in my previous email when I mentioned that a debugger could
be found for $43 online, seems its more like $127 for ones which have
debugging capability (several of the MKII clones look identical but have
different capabilities apparently).

Best regards,

Element Green

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 5:44 PM, Arnim Littek  wrote:

> FWIW, I’m operating a Dragon to an ATxmega128a4u over ca. 40mm of ribbon
> cable reliably.  You also have a speed setting in avrdude to fiddle with.
> Mine is running at
>
> /usr/bin/avrdude -B 2.0 -p atxmega128a4u -P usb -c dragon_pdi
>
> but that can be slowed down in problematic cases.
>
>
>
> Arnim
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Element Green [mailto:elem...@elementsofsound.org]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 21 October 2015 12:40 p.m.
> *To:* Joerg Wunsch;
> *Subject:* Re: [AVaRICE-user] AVR Dragon not working with atxmega16d4
>
>
>
> Hello Joerg,
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Element Green <
> elem...@elementsofsound.org> wrote:
>
>
> How long's your cable?  The levelshifters/drivers on the Dragon are
> known to be fairly weak.  In general, the cables that come with an STK500
> work well, they are about 15 cm long.  Anything longer might cause
> troubles.
>
>
>
>
>
> I had that thought as well about the cable length after reading something
> to that effect on a forum post.  My guess is that that is the issue now
> that you mention it again, though I got sidetracked by the thought that it
> was a version incompatibility.  The cable I have came with a ZeptoProg II
> programmer and is probably about 10 inches long.  I'll get some shorter
> ones and see if that makes a difference.  Perhaps the 0xAE code can be used
> to identify cable length issues.  Guess I will see.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So I shortened the cable by removing the connector, cut it to about 4
> inches and then put the connector back on.  It still was getting the same
> error code with my custom PCB, but it goes through a motherboard
> interconnect plus a few extra inches.  So I then tried it on the little
> development board I have and it came back with a device ID which is
> currently unsupported (the xmega128d4) which it was not doing with a longer
> cable.  So it seems like it would likely work if the interconnect was not
> there.  I cut the cable to 2 inches and still same 0xAE error code.
>
>
>
> I'm thinking of getting an MKII clone like this one since they seem to be
> available for under $43 online:
>
> http://www.wvshare.com/product/USB-AVR-JTAGICE-XPII.htm
>
>
>
> Any idea if those will work OK with debugging or if it might work better
> than the Dragon in regards to cable length?  Guess the easiest thing to do
> is just try it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> cheers, Joerg   .-.-.   --... ...--   -.. .  DL8DTL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> Element
>
>
>
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