Re: [Ayatana] why compiz in place of mutter
Own up a large number roof different applications, and the load that Unity/Compiz handles without a hitch brings the frame rates in Gnome Shell/Mutter crashing down. Mutter will seem smoother at first, but this tells me that it's inferior in terms of resource management. On Jan 29, 2012 3:34 PM, Josh Strawbridge holyknightjos...@gmail.com wrote: i know i can remove the global app menus that way but i don't really like to do that since the remaining app menus don't really match so great with the window decorations... or at least they didn't a few months ago. also i kinda want to keep unity as full unity as i can so i can actually check out whatever updates may happen to it. i keep hoping to eventually see an option to only have the menus in the top bar when a window is maximized since i think it's a nice use of the space in that situation. i actually tried setting the launcher to only come out when i mouse to the top left corner just before i sent that but for some reason it never would come out without moving down the left side of the screen some (about twice the top panel/bar's height) so it was actually worse than just leaving it left set for the left side. -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity improvement for vision loss people
Symbolic icons are better used for functions or tasks within an app/application/program (which I here use interchangeably). The back button in a browser. Who said the web browsers are broken? I use two to help stay organized. In one browser, I always have bookmarks, saved passwords and sessions, tabs, history, and auto fill for work, while in the other, I keep personal tabs, bookmarks, passwords, etc. How will the user know which app is set a default anyway? What if they want to change it? Short of looking in the settings or haphazardly opening it to find out, there isn't one. A good UI will balance form and function. You don't want to try and adapt function to fit form; if you have to go one way or the other, it's much better to sacrifice form for function. Symbolic icons are unintuitive and very confusing to new users, and they serve very little function since the current, branded icons are symbolic anyway. --Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Jan 12, 2012 12:58 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 08:12, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 11 January 2012 18:27, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: symbolic icons, not desaturated corporate branding icons. It is a very bad idea for Canonical to tweak the Firefox logo, and Mozilla is more of a non-profit than an evil corporation. That Firefox's logo is nearly unrecognizable in Mint 12 is not a good thing. I don't believe Ubuntu can legally modify the Skype logo/trademarks anyway, but it's a bad idea so let's not even consider it. agreed. that's why we have symbolic icons which represent a functionality. The functionality can then be executed by a branded app. Think of the symbolic icon as a wrapper. That's foundation, platform, Unity, rather than app. So to be more specific, a functionality (application) maps to an executor: www-browser - [firefox|epiphany|chromium|opera|...] instant-messenger - [empathy|pidgin|ekiga|skype|trillian|...] file-manager - [thunar|dolphin|marlin|nautilus|mc] this way the last used app will be opened for the respective functionality by default, when the symbol representing the functionality is clicked. and: freedom of choice remains untampered with. branding and logo copyrights are unharmed. to think free and open doesn't mean we should allow the chaos from the old notification area to bloom in the unity launcher, now that we put an end to it with symbolic indicator menus. does canonical want app developers to develop their UI or does Ayatana aim at developing it themselves? Ubuntu developers maintain the platform or foundation including Unity; Ubuntu app developers write cool programs that can run on Ubuntu. And of course, not all Ubuntu developers are part of Canonical or the Design team. remains the wording problem in the community.. what is app and is app different from application? and what does application mean? I think you like philosophical rabbit trails. App is a nice, current buzzword for a computer program, as you might install from a smartphone app store. my philosophical rabbit trail, explained: In today's buzzy language, stuff is not defined precisely. If you want to define a system interface on the other hand, you will need a precise-to-the-core language to do this. If the wording used to define the system is not precise, the system's architecture will reflect this imprecision on all structural levels. Imprecision is an advantage in many situations, especially where you need randomness and entropy. It should be used deliberately, when defining an architecture, which will be used by millions of people for many hours of their lives. app != application; application != unequal functionality symbolic icon maps to functionality branding icon maps to executing implementation Anyway, back to the original topic. I'm glad that the original poster was able to set up Ubuntu relatively easily with larger, more visible icons. I agree that the launcher arrows are not obvious enough; maybe the designers will try to make them better in the coming weeks. i'm curious to find out what that will feel like.. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Video effects when user install programs
I think what he's getting at is that it would be nice of when you click to install an app from software center, it moves from the software center to the launcher, to draw the user's focus and help illustrate where the app is now. It's good in concept, but what about installing a support package from the software center? --Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Jan 11, 2012 8:47 PM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: but how would that work? in the uTV movies/videos use pictures (basically the design from the retail box), while people identify apps mostly by icons. And many apps really dont have promotional pictures. -- Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:01:29 +0100 From: irone...@gmail.com To: m...@canonical.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Video effects when user install programs Hi Matthew, I know that, but it should be nice if the icons to the launcher will be added with a video effect like Ubuntu TV. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity improvement for vision loss people
I see. While this has merit, I don't think it's entirely relevant. What if I have two web browsers on my launcher? What if I don't have a default specified. The concept of differentiating an app as default is broken. There shouldn't be a default web browser, since it really doesn't matter. Opening a file from the file browser should follow the last used app. On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 16:27, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 00:48, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: This seems more like a theme question then, rather than a UI one. A custom theme is better suited to solving the issue in your particular case. Theming is an excellent approach towards gaining something from this topic, yes. It's just that the consumer in me expects to find a theme to be available and only a few clicks away.. not that i'd have to create it myself. Removing all but one color from an icon by default is a bad idea, unless the icon is supposed to be that way. Even these exceptions should be kept to a minimum. The issue that arises is that there are two main characteristics people use when quickly identifying an icon: color and shape. If we make all the icons one color, then this distinction is lost, and we must rely on shape alone, which isn't idea for many people. This is the exact inverse of a theme like faenza, where all the icons are the same shape (you lose the differences in shape, then you only have color left). perhaps my wording was ambiguous or unclear, i mean to suggest the introduction of symbols instead of branding icons into the launcher. does canonical want app developers to develop their UI or does Ayatana aim at developing it themselves? I think Ayatana should come up with symbols for the Unity UI, including launcher SYMBOLS for default webbrowser, default email UI, default IM UI and default file management UI. Ayatana aka Canonical also came up with symbols for workspace switcher, trash and Dash, so it is not far fetched to do the same for default apps such as firefox and thunderbird, empathy and totem, gnome-terminal, gnome-calculator, [skype,] gnome-terminal and USC. symbolic icons, not desaturated corporate branding icons. I will admit that monochrome icon sets have their artistic merits, but functionally, they're a nightmare. Form is nice, but not at the sake of function. Besides, the only other major OS that uses Monochrome app icons is Windows Phone 7, and it's not particularly popular with consumers. On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 16:12, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 23:57, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: The indicators work well monochrome because they were designed from the start to be Monochrome, and include only simple shapes and outlines. Regular icons do not work this way. Perhaps an option to desaturate the launcher icons, or a Unity plugin if we get a plugin framework. But using this as default is a huge step backward in usability for most people, particularly those with vision loss, as the icons will blend into the launcher. No, I disagree! Some OS designers or theme designers may disagree with this basic premise. Or artists may not have time to produce symbolic variations of all the icons for which software developers desire them. Therefore, there should be a mechanism for developers to request a symbolic variation of an icon, such that it will gracefully fall back to the non-symbolic equivalent if — whether intentionally or unintentionally — no symbolic variation has been provided. (from http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/SymbolicIcons ) -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity improvement for vision loss people
I should specify; my comment was in response to Frederik. Turning off the backlight toggles by default I'm indifferent on, personally. I do appreciate that it helps people with poor vision, but I wonder a better solution is to include a Unity specific configuration tool in the repos or on CD. That would solve this and a large number rod other complaints with Unity. --Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Jan 9, 2012 7:36 AM, Bartosz gan...@poczta.onet.pl wrote: Hi. i don't want desaturate inactive icons. Every icon has its own background square (backlight). The idea is toggle it if it is inactive, I tested it, and it works perfectly. Try it by yourself by using Ccsm. It is really easy to implement this. If you don't like this solution, I have several another ideas how to improve this behaviour. Best Regards Bartosz W dniu 9 stycznia 2012 01:40 użytkownik Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com napisał: Desaturating inactive applications in the launcher is a bad idea. It removes the ability to recognize different icons based on color. That would leave only shape, which isn't enough on it's own, particularly if the current icon set has many similar icons (like Faenza). --Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Jan 8, 2012 3:20 PM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: like i often tell friends and others: imo, a11y and usability are one and the same thing, when we're talking about basic functionality. That is why design should be based on a solid semantic foundation: this way, porting whatever event or state notification to the human sense realms (ayatana) becomes a trivial task of translation. The little arrows are of little semantic value, they could be interpreted as a plentitude of things. To display an application in the launcher in full color regardless whether it is currently active or dormant is in itself already a misleading way of presenting an app. Ccsm offers turning off backlight for inactive apps. This is better, but still not enough from a semantic point of view: i'm still indicating something that isn't there (loaded). Apps that are inactive should be monochrome in the launcher. If possible, their button should display a symbolic icon instead of a rich logo. Semantic design is a11y design, but to get that message across to everyone, i'd probably have to prove the concept first, and i'm afraid i'm not up to the challenge quite yet. On 2012-01-06, Matt Wheeler m...@funkyhat.org wrote: On 6 January 2012 01:31, Bartosz gan...@poczta.onet.pl wrote: Hi. My friend has a big vision impairment. In every day computer usage he is using Windows 7 with big fonts. He is using computer for checking the mail (thunderbird), web browsing (firefox), and watching the movies (vlc player) I convinced him to test the Ubuntu for two weeks, and tell me his impressions. I installed Ubuntu 10.10. After enable some accessibility and appearance set-up, the Ubuntu works like the charm. My friend was very positive surprised with the Ubuntu. Great! :) Most annoying problem he found: - readability of the currently opened applications in launcher - after open the new applications he has problems with notice, which application are already opened. There is only small arrow on the left side of icon. In Windows 7 there is no such problem. Is is possible to implement some more readable look? - readability of the currently active application in launcher - Currently there is small arrow on the right side of icon. Is it possible to do it more readable? It's possible to change the appearance of running apps in the launcher by installing compizconfig-settings-manager and tweaking the settings in the unity plugin. Perhaps some changes to the launcher's appearance should be made automatically when choosing low, high or high/inverse contrast settings, or an option added to the Universal Access settings (I'm not sure tying it to the contrast option quite fits... anyone?) With this problem solved, the productivity of vision loss with ubuntu will be much higher. What do you think about his ideas? Do you think it is possible to change this looks in Unuty? It's possible for you do do this for your friend right away, we just need to decide whether we should be doing this by default, and also whether the current configuration options for the launcher are good enough from an accessibility point of view. I'm not in any way an accessibility expert
Re: [Ayatana] Unity improvement for vision loss people
The indicators work well monochrome because they were designed from the start to be Monochrome, and include only simple shapes and outlines. Regular icons do not work this way. Perhaps an option to desaturate the launcher icons, or a Unity plugin if we get a plugin framework. But using this as default is a huge step backward in usability for most people, particularly those with vision loss, as the icons will blend into the launcher. On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 15:23, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: hi Ian ;) On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 01:40, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Desaturating inactive applications in the launcher is a bad idea. It removes the ability to recognize different icons based on color. That would leave only shape, which isn't enough on it's own, particularly if the current icon set has many similar icons (like Faenza). you're correct, it is a radical approach to begin with. The indicator menu's symbolic icons make it clear to us that if a symbol conveys a purpose, it does not need flashy colors to make that clear to the user. On the contrary. All the color in the launcher is reason enough for me to feel ashamed for each time it pops out of the left screen corner into visibility. My approach is radical, and that is probably the reason why it will not fit so well into this conversation. Nevertheless i'd like to share it, because it combines different methods of accessibility enhancement, which at the same time make usability better, too, and recude visual clutter. I gave the icons in the launcher maximum size via CCSM, because i don't like aiming with mice and trackpads, and i must say that it felt more natural and less clutterful from the first moment on, no question. I did this on every device that i operate a desktop account on, and i don't feel at home without it anymore. Backligh always toggles, absolutely! Naturally i had to remove all but the really necessary icons from the launcher, especially with the limited space a netbook has to offer on the vertical axis. Fortunately this forced me into a well organized usage of space, which turned out to be quite practical, compared to how cluttered the launcher was before that. the prettiest order i had in the launcher was with a tailored icon set that had monochrome symbolic icons for most of the usual apps. i don't think it should be the ordinary user's use case to have different browsers in their launcher, which would get them confused when placed next to each other in monochrome look. this sounds more like a highly specialized case to me, and the users i know who are that specialized know well how to remedy such a problem. For this special case, i'd rather include an exception, such as keep saturated always, instead of imposing the exception onto the main audience. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity improvement for vision loss people
This seems more like a theme question then, rather than a UI one. A custom theme is better suited to solving the issue in your particular case. Removing all but one color from an icon by default is a bad idea, unless the icon is supposed to be that way. Even these exceptions should be kept to a minimum. The issue that arises is that there are two main characteristics people use when quickly identifying an icon: color and shape. If we make all the icons one color, then this distinction is lost, and we must rely on shape alone, which isn't idea for many people. This is the exact inverse of a theme like faenza, where all the icons are the same shape (you lose the differences in shape, then you only have color left). I will admit that monochrome icon sets have their artistic merits, but functionally, they're a nightmare. Form is nice, but not at the sake of function. Besides, the only other major OS that uses Monochrome app icons is Windows Phone 7, and it's not particularly popular with consumers. On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 16:12, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 23:57, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: The indicators work well monochrome because they were designed from the start to be Monochrome, and include only simple shapes and outlines. Regular icons do not work this way. Perhaps an option to desaturate the launcher icons, or a Unity plugin if we get a plugin framework. But using this as default is a huge step backward in usability for most people, particularly those with vision loss, as the icons will blend into the launcher. No, I disagree! Some OS designers or theme designers may disagree with this basic premise. Or artists may not have time to produce symbolic variations of all the icons for which software developers desire them. Therefore, there should be a mechanism for developers to request a symbolic variation of an icon, such that it will gracefully fall back to the non-symbolic equivalent if — whether intentionally or unintentionally — no symbolic variation has been provided. (from http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/SymbolicIcons ) -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity improvement for vision loss people
Desaturating inactive applications in the launcher is a bad idea. It removes the ability to recognize different icons based on color. That would leave only shape, which isn't enough on it's own, particularly if the current icon set has many similar icons (like Faenza). --Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Jan 8, 2012 3:20 PM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: like i often tell friends and others: imo, a11y and usability are one and the same thing, when we're talking about basic functionality. That is why design should be based on a solid semantic foundation: this way, porting whatever event or state notification to the human sense realms (ayatana) becomes a trivial task of translation. The little arrows are of little semantic value, they could be interpreted as a plentitude of things. To display an application in the launcher in full color regardless whether it is currently active or dormant is in itself already a misleading way of presenting an app. Ccsm offers turning off backlight for inactive apps. This is better, but still not enough from a semantic point of view: i'm still indicating something that isn't there (loaded). Apps that are inactive should be monochrome in the launcher. If possible, their button should display a symbolic icon instead of a rich logo. Semantic design is a11y design, but to get that message across to everyone, i'd probably have to prove the concept first, and i'm afraid i'm not up to the challenge quite yet. On 2012-01-06, Matt Wheeler m...@funkyhat.org wrote: On 6 January 2012 01:31, Bartosz gan...@poczta.onet.pl wrote: Hi. My friend has a big vision impairment. In every day computer usage he is using Windows 7 with big fonts. He is using computer for checking the mail (thunderbird), web browsing (firefox), and watching the movies (vlc player) I convinced him to test the Ubuntu for two weeks, and tell me his impressions. I installed Ubuntu 10.10. After enable some accessibility and appearance set-up, the Ubuntu works like the charm. My friend was very positive surprised with the Ubuntu. Great! :) Most annoying problem he found: - readability of the currently opened applications in launcher - after open the new applications he has problems with notice, which application are already opened. There is only small arrow on the left side of icon. In Windows 7 there is no such problem. Is is possible to implement some more readable look? - readability of the currently active application in launcher - Currently there is small arrow on the right side of icon. Is it possible to do it more readable? It's possible to change the appearance of running apps in the launcher by installing compizconfig-settings-manager and tweaking the settings in the unity plugin. Perhaps some changes to the launcher's appearance should be made automatically when choosing low, high or high/inverse contrast settings, or an option added to the Universal Access settings (I'm not sure tying it to the contrast option quite fits... anyone?) With this problem solved, the productivity of vision loss with ubuntu will be much higher. What do you think about his ideas? Do you think it is possible to change this looks in Unuty? It's possible for you do do this for your friend right away, we just need to decide whether we should be doing this by default, and also whether the current configuration options for the launcher are good enough from an accessibility point of view. I'm not in any way an accessibility expert so someone who is should probably look at what we've got and comment here :) Thanks -- Matt Wheeler m...@funkyhat.org ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Tweak
On top of that, we will have MyUnity included in the repos for 12.04, so it will be easy to install a Unity tweak tool, and for users who don't know what they're doing, there is no possibility of getting confused or breaking something. On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 03:51, Lance lbsol...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't think it's particularly true that, Ubuntu Tweak and similar tools (concerning Unity) will not break anything. Ubuntu Tweak still offers computer janitor which has been known to confuse many end users, and even further if you hover the mouse pointer in the wrong area in some tweak areas and scroll you can easily change things with no obvious way to restore defaults. Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool. I love using it to play with themes in Gnome 3, regardless of DE, but it's far from mature enough to be included in the repos. --- On *Wed, 12/14/11, Roland Taylor rolandi...@gmail.com* wrote: From: Roland Taylor rolandi...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Tweak To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Wednesday, December 14, 2011, 10:17 PM I respectfully disagree. The options that can be tweaked from Ubuntu Tweak and similar tools (concerning Unity) will not break anything, and for the most part can be changed on the fly (without restarting that is). There is no reason not to include such a tool by default. On 12/14/2011 05:00 PM, Ian Santopietro wrote: I think the theory here is that users who want to do it generally know (or can find out) how to install these tools, and those who could break something won't have the option visible. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Wed 14 Dec 2011 01:27:05 PM MST, Christian Rupp wrote: The options to change unity are very rarely installed by default... Wouldn't it be nice to implement the tweaks options for apperance somewhere in the system settings? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.nethttp://mc/compose?to=ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.nethttp://mc/compose?to=ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.nethttp://mc/compose?to=ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Simplifying the actions icons.
Again I have no intention on creating an entire iconset, but rather just focusing on the actions subset. Has there been any discussion on this before? Indeed, I just realized my mistake. Faenza does have good action icons. They are a little generic in my opinion, though. On the contrary, the current lens look li,e they fit right in, though they don't look excellent. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. By the way, to my knowledge, there hasn't been a lot of discussion on this before. That said, I don't really monitor the more art-based channels, and I could have very easily missed it. On Dec 12, 2011 12:51 PM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: yea those action icons just look good: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/12/light-themes-evolved-ambiance-and.html the only icons that are all square are the app icons, which i dont think ubuntu is going to adopt by default. there were plans for a new icon set, but i havent seen anything yet... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 13:31:50 -0500 From: svela...@gmail.com To: isan...@gmail.com; ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Simplifying the actions icons. On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I don't see how going ahead and doing it would hurt. The worst that could happen is that the set isn't accepted as a default, and there's another nice option for users to install if they want. I'd like to see what you come up with. I recommend keeping a distinct shape for each icon. This is one of my least favorite things about Faenza; all of the icons have the same shape. Again I have no intention on creating an entire iconset, but rather just focusing on the actions subset. Has there been any discussion on this before? -- Saleel ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Tweak
I think the theory here is that users who want to do it generally know (or can find out) how to install these tools, and those who could break something won't have the option visible. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Wed 14 Dec 2011 01:27:05 PM MST, Christian Rupp wrote: The options to change unity are very rarely installed by default... Wouldn't it be nice to implement the tweaks options for apperance somewhere in the system settings? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Listing and Finding Lens?
What about automatically adding newly installed apps to the launcher, along with an animation to show you where it went. I know there's an option to move an app to the launcher now, but having it by default will make it easier for new users. On Dec 11, 2011 7:55 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: here is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/708976 From: docto...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:11:49 + Subject: [Ayatana] Listing and Finding Lens? Hey Gang, Ubuntu 11.10 My good friend said I've installed Inkscape and gimp and i can't find them he continued to try and navigate the Ubuntu lens and got frustrated with not being able to find them. I told him to type them in and he just said What if I can't remember what it's called and then said Oh great I've burned the toast, thanks Ubuntu. He's going to make a folder on the desktop with links to the apps, since the Unity lens and bar isn't sufficient for showing what apps are installed. Any ideas on solving these issues? Martin, ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Simplifying the actions icons.
I don't see how going ahead and doing it would hurt. The worst that could happen is that the set isn't accepted as a default, and there's another nice option for users to install if they want. I'd like to see what you come up with. I recommend keeping a distinct shape for each icon. This is one of my least favorite things about Faenza; all of the icons have the same shape. On Dec 11, 2011 5:33 PM, Saleel Velankar svela...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I believe the actions icons are too colourful and have way too much detail. They should be more simple, clean, utilitarian. The new software center in oneiric already uses monochrome actions icons. I know that SABDFL already said something about getting a design school involved in redoing the icons. I was wondering if there would be any support if I went ahead and redid just the actions icons? I have some experience. ( islingt0ner.deviantart.com http://islingt0ner.deviantart.com/gallery)** what I mean is would such a project be beneficial? I have actually already started work on it, but was wondering whether its worth finishing? here is what I started yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/N7CLX.png The 'go' and 'arrows' are the headings of the name so for example go-next or arrow-left. I would ofcourse work with any crtique, concerns. I just dont want to be one of those designers that is like, here I made this, put it in. If there is a desire for such a project inside Ubuntu, then I want to work with people, you know? Love Respect profusely apologetic if this is the wrong list, -- Saleel ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Listing and Finding Lens?
If they add newly installed programs to the launcher, then a new lens would just be redundant and clutter. On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 12:57, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: check the bug, looks like that's what they are going to do now. not sure if they should also add a sections to the lens... Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 10:26:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Listing and Finding Lens? From: isan...@gmail.com To: estela...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net; docto...@gmail.com What about automatically adding newly installed apps to the launcher, along with an animation to show you where it went. I know there's an option to move an app to the launcher now, but having it by default will make it easier for new users. On Dec 11, 2011 7:55 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: here is the bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/708976 From: docto...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:11:49 + Subject: [Ayatana] Listing and Finding Lens? Hey Gang, Ubuntu 11.10 My good friend said I've installed Inkscape and gimp and i can't find them he continued to try and navigate the Ubuntu lens and got frustrated with not being able to find them. I told him to type them in and he just said What if I can't remember what it's called and then said Oh great I've burned the toast, thanks Ubuntu. He's going to make a folder on the desktop with links to the apps, since the Unity lens and bar isn't sufficient for showing what apps are installed. Any ideas on solving these issues? Martin, ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global Menu mockups for Unity
But users don't expect to not be able to move a window using the title bar, and similarly, we can't expect them to know how to do it any other way. On Dec 7, 2011 2:10 PM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: you mean Unity love/drag handles ? http://codearmada.com/2011/03/24/unity-has-love-handles/ http://vindsl.com/images/vindsl-desktop-26-mar-2011%282%29.png they are going to incorporate it anyway so it would solve these dragging problems some mention with a few tweaks. i think that this should activate by clicking any corner or optionally via a window control. -- From: frederik.nn...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 19:33:20 +0100 To: m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Global Menu mockups for Unity On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 19:00, Matt Richardson m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: Couldn't you solve the draggable area problem by allowing users to move the window by dragging from anywhere on the title bar, including a menu item. at some point it was mentioned that all grey areas in an application window should be draggable areas. this would make a lot of sense to me.. Menus could show on release to prevent them from showing when a user drags the window. indicator menus are aim-click-drag-release. this includes indicator-appmenu so no, show on release is not a solution, so i think. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global Menu mockups for Unity
Oh, I have no problem with the grab handles. It's just they're meant for multi touch screens. They aren't a good replacement for traditional window management utilities. On Dec 7, 2011 6:45 PM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: Still the feature is being introduced. I think these drag handles are self explanatory just by looking at them and provide that necessary extra surface area for resizing and dragging windows. and you might still be able to use part of the titlebar for dragging. The plugin can even be turn off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uij2ZMxzVsg People will need to try to adapt to the behavior in the same way they had to adapt to some other stuff in unity or other DEs/OSs. But is a young project and if you think it needs tweaking you can always suggest it and some already have: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1714969 -- Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 16:00:08 -0700 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Global Menu mockups for Unity From: isan...@gmail.com To: estela...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net; frederik.nn...@gmail.com; m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk But users don't expect to not be able to move a window using the title bar, and similarly, we can't expect them to know how to do it any other way. On Dec 7, 2011 2:10 PM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: you mean Unity love/drag handles ? http://codearmada.com/2011/03/24/unity-has-love-handles/ http://vindsl.com/images/vindsl-desktop-26-mar-2011%282%29.png they are going to incorporate it anyway so it would solve these dragging problems some mention with a few tweaks. i think that this should activate by clicking any corner or optionally via a window control. -- From: frederik.nn...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 19:33:20 +0100 To: m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Global Menu mockups for Unity On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 19:00, Matt Richardson m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: Couldn't you solve the draggable area problem by allowing users to move the window by dragging from anywhere on the title bar, including a menu item. at some point it was mentioned that all grey areas in an application window should be draggable areas. this would make a lot of sense to me.. Menus could show on release to prevent them from showing when a user drags the window. indicator menus are aim-click-drag-release. this includes indicator-appmenu so no, show on release is not a solution, so i think. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] new proposal for notifications / indicators
be there any more. That's why you can always expand system indicators by clicking on the arrow. They are just hidden but not gone. It would be rather strange that a Me menu (that Ubuntu doesn't even have any more!) would be visible by default, but a clock would not. With me menu it didn't mean to use it 100% like we had it. That's why i added like gnome-shell. What if we would remove the me menu and show the clock instead? A problem that i see with that approach is that people will not expect a menuentry to shut down their pc when clicking at the clock. But maybe we could put shutdown at the dashs' first page? Nice day David Reichling ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen without them. They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more consistent with the rest of Unity. Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's very pleasing. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
But I never mentioned non-maximized windows at all. My argument pertained to the dash. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 16:43, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough. About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design of the unity. Which has more squarish throughout. I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for the windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top bar. I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized) window itself. I got the idea of the design. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen without them. They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more consistent with the rest of Unity. Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's very pleasing. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example. On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, I hope all of you are having fun. :) Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner becomes a problem to give a consistent design. It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on completely different set of axiom. I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button. We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann cgerm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] drag to launcher - raise or pop-out?
On Nov 28, 2011 3:52 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 05:49, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 27, 2011 3:38 PM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 22:20, Christian Rupp christ...@r-k-r.de wrote: For me it's working, just drag it on the icon of banshee the song starts, many other programs work also, but not all :(( so does holding the drag over Banshee's Launcher icon raise the Banshee window? It doesn't, but dropping it on the Banshee icon will start it playing. am i alone, or isn't this clearly a design regression? I still can't see how to raise the drop destination while i'm in a drag. During a drag it seems as if interaction is essentially blocked: ALT-TAB doesn't work, right-click menus over Launcher items are not available, When i hold a dragged .mp3 file over e.g. Totem's Launcher item, the object i'm dragging is decorated with a + emblem, which is misleading. Dropping onto this target won't add anything, it will replace the entire current playlist. Drag and Drop is an important gesture in every pointing-device enabled environment. Hand gestures are essential to the experience in every modern DE, AR environment or mobile touch-enabled device. This worked in GNOME Panel's Window List, is it by design that Unity fails to offer this comfort? I believe it is. There's an important menu function, Open With..., that before was hidden within a context menu, which currently aren't touch friendly. This exposes this important functionality, and makes it much faster to access. If not so, i'd be curious to know if there are design specs that suggest otherwise. The Blueprint here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-apps-unity-integration e.g. didn't say much about how an old and cherished comfortable DE interaction feature simply vanished into nothingness. Are there any other blueprints i may study in order to satisfy my curiosity, or is it up to the community to reverse this regression? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] drag to launcher - raise or pop-out?
No, I prefer the current behavior. There may be ways to expand upon it, but it's sufficient for now. On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 08:13, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: maybe you should file a bug ? From: frederik.nn...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 11:52:20 +0100 To: isan...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] drag to launcher - raise or pop-out? On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 05:49, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 27, 2011 3:38 PM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 22:20, Christian Rupp christ...@r-k-r.de wrote: For me it's working, just drag it on the icon of banshee the song starts, many other programs work also, but not all :(( so does holding the drag over Banshee's Launcher icon raise the Banshee window? It doesn't, but dropping it on the Banshee icon will start it playing. am i alone, or isn't this clearly a design regression? I still can't see how to raise the drop destination while i'm in a drag. During a drag it seems as if interaction is essentially blocked: ALT-TAB doesn't work, right-click menus over Launcher items are not available, When i hold a dragged .mp3 file over e.g. Totem's Launcher item, the object i'm dragging is decorated with a + emblem, which is misleading. Dropping onto this target won't add anything, it will replace the entire current playlist. Drag and Drop is an important gesture in every pointing-device enabled environment. Hand gestures are essential to the experience in every modern DE, AR environment or mobile touch-enabled device. This worked in GNOME Panel's Window List, is it by design that Unity fails to offer this comfort? If not so, i'd be curious to know if there are design specs that suggest otherwise. The Blueprint here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-default-apps-unity-integration e.g. didn't say much about how an old and cherished comfortable DE interaction feature simply vanished into nothingness. Are there any other blueprints i may study in order to satisfy my curiosity, or is it up to the community to reverse this regression? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] drag to launcher - raise or pop-out?
If I'm dragging an MP3 file (or set of MP3 files) into, e.g. Totem, what exactly can I do with them? Regardless of where I drop them on the window, it will play them, which only differs from Open in labeling. Why should the launcher icon be any different? -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Mon 28 Nov 2011 12:20:31 PM MST, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 16:45, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com mailto:isan...@gmail.com wrote: No, I prefer the current behavior. There may be ways to expand upon it, but it's sufficient for now. i think the current behaviour is insufficient for the user, but for the developer it is a good place to start. open was an important menu item when most of the DE was all about opening files or opening folders. Nowadays we have multimedia objects, some of them are interactive User Interfaces. It makes no sense to give much prominence to the open metaphor anymore, since most of the actions performed on today's content are view, view in fullscreen, play, stop, edit, manage, hold, release, pause and archive. Open has no or little place in the semantics of our every day DE of today, except when related to filefolder-like documents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Need ability to close windows from within Spread Mode (super+W)
It is possible to close all windows in an Application from the launcher (Right click Quit). That said, the ability to close a window from spread would be minimally intrusive, and would speed up the process of closing only one window (i.e. a file manager) without having to focus it or close the rest of the windows as well. I would do it with a small X icon in the upper left (Or, simply allow the use the use the window controls from the spread view). -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Mon 28 Nov 2011 01:21:21 PM MST, nick rundy wrote: I'm finding it incredibly frustrating to use Unity because of the inability to close windows without first having to open them first. With previous gnome 2x I could right-click the window button in the taskbar (gnome panel) and select close. With Windows 7 I can close a window via the popup preview that win7 generates when i place the cursor over the taskbar icon (regardless of what window is actually opened and focused).. In Unity, it would sure be nice to be able to close a window from within Spread Mode via middle-click. Similar to how I can close a tab from within a web browser. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Two dimensional launcher?
I wouldn't mind it. It would be like folders in Android or iOS, no? I've never been big on folders in other, mobile OSs, but I know a lot of people would use this. Plus, it would give people another way to replicate the Gnome2 menu hierarchy. On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:24, Josh Strawbridge holyknightjos...@gmail.com wrote: i like the idea. i actually used the gnome 2 panel drawers on a launcher panel i had on the left side of my screen before natty. so my setup was actually a lot like what you seem to have described. these days i've taken to doing the same thing with a quicklist. for example i stuck all the libreoffice stuff into a quicklist on a single button and i've got another one for various tools and utilities. it does keep my launcher more tidy but i don't think it's that great of an option to be honest. if i put my art programs in a single button i wouldn't be able to drag a file onto the launcher for the program in the quicklists. -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Yet another launcher complaint (?)
On the other hand, I find it too hard to reveal it at all. I'm guessing that this issue is just one of subjectivity, and that there isn't a large happy medium to find. I'd be skeptical about changing the delay, but you can set the delay manually in CCSM. That said, I have noticed that the launcher won't reveal unless the cursor is stopped on the edge of the screen (Or traveling below a certain velocity). On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 14:22, Alon Ziv (launchpad) alon...@nolaviz.org wrote: Hi I've started using Unity only last month (Oneiric), after having resisted updates for several years. I like many things in the concept (I'm a full-screen user by nature; the more full the screen is, the better--plus, I've long advocated that the distinction between running applications and non-running ones should be a thing of the past). However, I do face one annoyance, and cannot find (so far) any discussion of it: it's too easy to open the launcher while aiming for other controls. For example, the Send button on Thunderbird (as I am writing this letter) is at the top-left corner of the window--moving my mouse there is almost certain to open the launcher unless I am very precise. Even worse is the Back button in Chrome (since this button is smaller). Is it perhaps possible to detect when some control area is very near the screen border, and when it is--reduce the launcher's sensitivity in this area (i.e. cause it to wait a few more tenths of a second before popping up)? Or some other idea? Thanks, -az ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Shut Down in Dash and with Key-Combination
Why do we need to optimize the ability to shutdown anyway? As a rule, you'll only do it once per session, and it's not like it's hard to access as it is now. Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 On Tue 15 Nov 2011 10:44:14 AM MST, Cyrille Ngassam Nkwenga wrote: Pressing the power button on your computer opens a dialog that lets you shut down. There's no need for a keyboard shortcut for a separate dialog for the same thing. I agree with you on that, but what if the Tour is a way out of range ? say I have to stand up in order to push the power button... , on a Laptop, not having a shortcut is okay, but with a tour I think we need it. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Problem with selection of window from different workspace
I have seen that, and I don't believe it's by design. I would report it. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse any errors or brevity. On Nov 12, 2011 8:05 PM, James Jenner james.g.jen...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've searched launchpad.net and I cannot find this reported yet. But as I'm not familiar with launchpad I wanted to mention it here first and see if I'm just inept at how to search on launchpad.net. The problem is that sometimes when selection of a window from a different workspace occurs, the window is moved down by x number of pixels such that it is in two workspaces. I suspect this is only related to people who arrange their workspaces with more than 1 row (I use 2x2 and have considered going 3x3, I find it easier and quicker to navigate than having it all in one long row). I've tried to recreate the problem but I find it very difficult to recreate. However it does happen a lot (I use 11.10 approx. 2 to 3 hours per day and it will happen at least once per day). The side affect of this is that if you select an open window via the launcher that protrudes into another workspace then it will not change the workspace, it does however select the window. It is possible that I'm accidentally moving windows such that the bottom edge is protruding into another workspace (which would make sense as in trying to recreate it, I wasn't able to). I will start monitoring carefully what is occurring that causes this problem. It's quite possible that the problem is mine but I suspect it's either a combination of window resize via shortcuts, moving windows between workspaces or minimizing/maximizing. Trick is trying to figure out what combination is causing this problem. I can recreate aspects of the problem if I drag a window such that the bottom edge only protrudes into the bottom one by say 10 or 20 pixels (easy to do with Firefox if your reorganising windows, you tend not to notice the status bar protruding below your workspace). If you go to the workspace below, you cannot see the window protruding as the bar with the global menu and indicator apps masks the window. However if you select a window in the workspace below, and then use the launcher to select the window in the workspace above (or via alt tab) then it appears as though nothing occurs. The window is selected, but you cannot visually see it because it is masked by the bar at the top of the screen. Has anyone else experienced this behaviour? I would suggest that when selecting a window that extends into the current workspace, if the global menu/indicator bar masks it then the workspace should be changed to the one above the current workspace. Either that or make the top bar transparent like the launcher so a user can see the window extending into the workspace. Cheers, James ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lots of mockups, but what is the problem you're trying to solve?
+1 for that idea. Are there any users here who would be okay with changing their tuned settings every time they call for tech support? I wouldn't, personally. I can also say that a lot of the users I help everyday wouldn't want to either. This is why consistency is so important, and why extensive configuration is hard to deal with. The issues I had supporting Ubuntu users dropped considerably when Unity was released, because I could tell the same thing to each user. Everything is always in the same place, and I don't have to try and guess what modifications users have made to the shell. Allowing users to make changes, then tell them to erase them everytime they have a problem is pointless. Soon they simply won't make changes anymore, and they'll want the options removed. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse any errors or brevity. On Nov 13, 2011 9:19 AM, Josh Strawbridge holyknightjos...@gmail.com wrote: Sometimes I hear something opposite. This is gonna work as I and design says. Like it or leave. yea i've seen what appears to be that attitude too. acting as if the users who suggest things just make completely off the wall suggestions that couldn't have been due to user experience or that it's an isolated case of what that user wants instead of stopping to think about if it's a worthwhile suggestion or not. then they get feedback from their testing that says the same thing and they change their mind. for example the the apps available for download section is useless and taking up space better used differently. i believe i remember reading that was a point brought up in the 11.10 testing but it's something actual users have been saying since early 11.04. they don't seem to get that users who make suggestions are doing it because they want to help unity be the best it can be. when there are so many different suggestions on how to improve or fix the same thing it should be obvious that THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG THERE THAT NEEDS TO BE FIXED instead of seeing them as disconnected ideas that a user thinks would be cool. if a user didn't really care they likely would either just use it the way it is or go to something else without bothering to suggest anything. the thing is that there is a gold mine of mockups and suggestions there that could greatly improve many things in unity. you know how that bug report says the The eight icons displayed on the Dash Home screen ... *no longer* serve a relevant purpose with the Dash and Launcher performing all required launching functions. as if that wasn't the case in natty from the start. those buttons were always useless for the same reasons they're useless now. I know that this can make technical support more difficult. But you could make the Unity Configuration Tool accessible via Gear menu on the top right. So if someone have a problem, you could easily restore everything to default (like Please click on gear icon in the upper right part of the screen, choose Unity Configuration Tool and click Restore Defaults). +1 for that idea. -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
No. It comes down to meaning this group of users should set a different unhide behavior than the default. You can it such that the launcher will only unhide when you hit the corner, which is an acceptable solution for this use case. Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse any errors or brevity. On Nov 7, 2011 1:16 AM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: On 11/06/2011 10:11 PM, Remco wrote: For your use case the always-visible setting is probably the best. In graphics applications, the canvas area can never be large enough. There tend to be panels and bars for the huge number of tools and option, so there really is no space for a permanent Launcher. The Launcher also happens to be very colorful and busy-looking, making it a distraction that becomes especially annoying if you work on and have to judge graphics. The move the screen to the right behavior might be an acceptable solution, too. That would mean that the tool icon you aimed at moves away from the pointer. It would save you the time it takes to move the pointer back to the right to make the Launcher disappear, to then carefully go back left again to get to the icon without touching the edge. But this at the cost of a likely disorienting shift of almost the entire screen, while still not being able to just throw the mouse to hit an icon in minimum time. It really does come down to that the Launcher and often used target areas in application windows should not share a screen edge. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
I was pointing out that this configuration is not suitable for every user, the Inkscape users acting as a prime example. It is nearly impossible to find a default configuration that will work well for everybody, and the current default setup works best for a majority of users. I'm not opposed to making configuration more accessible, but changing the default to make a minority of users happy is not an acceptable solution for anyone. I mentioned this because I felt these users had a valid complaint, and wanted to share a workaround for this complaint that they can do now. I apologize for trying to be helpful. On 11/07/2011 09:23 AM, Josh Andler wrote: On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Ian Santopietroisan...@gmail.com wrote: No. It comes down to meaning this group of users should set a different unhide behavior than the default. You can it such that the launcher will only unhide when you hit the corner, which is an acceptable solution for this use case. No offense, but this group?... where is the Unity in that? As Thorsten brought up, settings are handled via different apps... where is the Unity in that? Shouldn't a more sensible default or more easily accessible configuration be the goal? You know, a more unified solution. Since you said what I should do, I'll tell you what you should do. Please shorten your rather excessive 11 line signature from your mobile device (or add -- above your signature). You should do that as a courtesy to other people who are reading on mobile devices. Cheers, Josh -- -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] What should Unity look like on Smartphones and Tablets?
At UDS-P, Mark announced his plans to have Ubuntu on Tablets, phones, and TVs by 14.04 LTS. You can start too early! http://i.imgur.com/56vDn.jpg I'd like feedback from the Ayatana community on the design. Is there anything that should be changed, or added? Possibly removed? Is there anything that isn't clear? -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What should Unity look like on Smartphones and Tablets?
On 11/07/2011 03:35 PM, Dylan McCall wrote: On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Ian Santopietroisan...@gmail.com wrote: At UDS-P, Mark announced his plans to have Ubuntu on Tablets, phones, and TVs by 14.04 LTS. You can start too early! http://i.imgur.com/56vDn.jpg I'd like feedback from the Ayatana community on the design. Is there anything that should be changed, or added? Possibly removed? Is there anything that isn't clear? Beautiful! I love the simpler styling here, and I really hope the desktop version ends up with something similar. Feels very clean and elegant to me. I have been pretty keen on dropping categorized indicator menus in favour of generic notifications that organize themselves (ala. Android, Gnome Shell, iOS, WebOS, etc). However, the way you've done the notification dash gave me pause. I really like it, and it makes sense. Just two details :) First, I can't figure out the physical position of everything that slides in to the screen. We have the dash appearing via a launcher that you slide in from the left, and then the notification dash, which is physically _above_ the dash, sliding in cleanly from the top of the screen. Is the dash always there, on top of my workspace, but invisible? The issue in my head seems to revolve around how the dash appears, rather than the notification dash. Perhaps the dash could slide from the top and the notification dash could be above that still (double the vertical movement?), and clicking the title bar could jump straight to the notification dash. That could feel a little busy, though. I was thinking it would fade in, as it does now. Whatever it ends up doing, it should be the same as tablets, TVs, and desktops. My second problem, which isn't really a problem but an observation, is a lot of this is not possible with the current indicator API, since everything is a single menu item, and a lot of those are semantically meaningless. Stuff like this would be a lot easier to implement if the API was higher level, perhaps built around grouping information and actions under headings. Where it's the thing that draws the menu (or dash, or whatever) that figures out where to put those headings, how to style them, and how much information to display from an instant message. To put it in a sentence, the current API feels a lot like HTML 2 in terms of flexibility (though it means well) and we need something more like XHTML. Sorry, I'm digressing :) I agree, but I don't think adapting the Indicator API would be a bad thing! Based on simple end-user observation, the current API is capable of getting some information about the notification (See the chat notifications from the current messaging menu-they show the name of the person who sent it). All we need to do is extend this to include Message Body, Message Subject, and Message Type header. I'm not familiar with the underpinnings of the current API, but I'm pretty sure this is doable. I agree with starting the launcher with nothing in it, but do you think it would make sense to pin apps to the launcher here? Or do you think it should be strictly reserved for apps that are actually running? Dylan On a full computer, pinning apps is great. You have easy access to frequently accessed apps, and you have a keyboard you can perform shortcuts on. On a Tablet, it could work that way, but on a phone, I think the space should be reserved for running apps only. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
On Mon 07 Nov 2011 03:54:09 PM MST, gespert...@gmail.com wrote: Last week I conducted a workshop on libre graphics tools in an important meeting here in Argentina. The attendees were people who don't use graphics programs regularly (and most of them don't use gnu/linux at all). We had Ubuntu 11.10 with Unity in the classroom's computers. Unity proved to be a negative experience for most of them. The ugliest experience was for people with 17 CRT monitors (some computers had them), where the global menu wasn't wide enough to display the menus. Launcher popping up everytime they wanted to use the main toolbox (GIMP and Inkscape) was another important issue. They also experienced problems with focus of applications. Sometimes GIMP lost focus and using the menu or switching apps with launcher required to make an extra click on GIMP's window. They were regular people using applications that are available in Ubuntu's software centre. They weren't a minority who needs to be productive with graphic design (as I do). Every single person trying to adjust a birthday photo with GIMP or trying to create a christmas card for their relatives with Inkscape will bump with these issues. What's the next excuse? That GIMP and Inkscape are broken for Unity and their developers should work something that wasn't an issue until Unity? Sorry if this seems like I'm trolling, but It's pretty frustrating to get always the same reply when somebody points out a real issue: unity works for the majority. If you can't use it, then you're part of a minority that should use anything else. I'm sorry, but I've simply never hit this issue outside of a web browser. I do some work in Inkscape, and a lot of pretty heavy work in Gimp. I haven't had any issues with the launcher in either of those applications. -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What should Unity look like on Smartphones and Tablets?
On 11/07/2011 04:25 PM, James Jenner wrote: On 8 November 2011 07:37, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com mailto:isan...@gmail.com wrote: At UDS-P, Mark announced his plans to have Ubuntu on Tablets, phones, and TVs by 14.04 LTS. You can start too early! http://i.imgur.com/56vDn.jpg I'd like feedback from the Ayatana community on the design. Is there anything that should be changed, or added? Possibly removed? Is there anything that isn't clear? First up, I would like to say that you have produced some nice prototypes. Interesting application of unity for a smaller footprint. I'm presuming that multi tasking is available in some flavour because you wish to show running applications, however I cannot see an easy way to close running apps. Would this be via a hardware button (a la the iphone button), via software buttons (a la later versions of android) or via some other mechanism? I'm not keen on the idea of a swipe from the side to show the launch panel while in a new app. To me it should be simpler and more obvious. The iphone approach is the simplest, not obvious, but very easy to learn and remember, however requires hardware to support it. The android approach in application navigation is a negative edcept for the home button, which is really the same as the iphone, just software based now (well in the latest version). That's one really nice thing about this. Assuming we have multiple handsets with our software, of course. You can do pretty much everything in software (Even change the volume, though people have shown they like hardware volume buttons for that). That all said, since it's still Ubuntu, you could map pretty much anything to a hardware key. You could have a home button that reveals the launcher (Or the dash, either one). So there could be one phone with a physical home button for people who want one, and another phone for those who want a minimalist, button-less design. I'm not a big fan of the dash being the 'home' or 'default' screen. People love being able to place/arrange their shortcuts for their apps. To me this should be extended to include documents, etc. However with the dash open as the default home, people will not have this option. I've not read any studies but I would imagine people generally access specific applications in high frequency, which would make sense to have these apps available immediately and not require multiple clicks to find. This would include an option for address book, option for making a call, option for sms, etc (for the phone one at least, maybe video conf for tablet and possibly phone options as well). People who use android love their widgets/gadgets, is there a plan to support such a thing for unity? I haven't accounted for that in my concepts, but we could add a way to easily create custom lenses that the user could add their own apps or widgets to. Specifically in regards to widgets, iOS has shown that users can be content without widgets. Possibly, we could allow developers to widgets to the notification drawer? My main concern is that Unity will be shoved into the phone/tablet arena. In my mind there should be development of key scenarios, use cases, etc. A road map would be a good idea as well. Then when mockups are presented then they can be compared against the key scenarios and use cases to make sure they're suitable, or if they require tweeking. I'm not sure what you mean by a Key scenario. Can you explain? Just my thoughts, don't take it as a neg to your work, I think you did a brilliant job of taking the current Unity and applying it to the phone/tablet form factor. Thanks! -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity Dash mockup
I'm not a fan. The current design gives you a lot of visual separation between the dash and the content around it. This looks clean, but it will blend too much visually. Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver. ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup? op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse any errors or brevity. On Nov 6, 2011 11:19 AM, Michal Strba faiface2...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/06/2011 03:12 PM, András Bognár wrote: Hi, I don't really like the current Dash border, so I started working on a mockup (https://plus.google.com/104888645168610370479/posts/BoAcd3c2Ek1). Different separator line, thinner dash border. I think the Dash looks nicer with the 1px border and with the new separator line the content is more focused to the user. What do you think about it? András Bognár ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp I really like your mockup too. It's much more clear than current design. Hope the dash will go this way. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Serious issues
What about requiring a hit and park to display the launcher? In order to show the launcher, the user must place the point er on the edge of the screen and stop it there. Then, after a brief delay (100-150ms), the launcher would reveal. On Nov 4, 2011 9:29 AM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: On 11/04/2011 01:10 PM, Sony-qs wrote: Isn't it possible to adjust the launcher like this? [Had mockup attached with Launcher starting below Firefox's bars] So far, I only have one case where I regularly get the Launcher while aiming at something else: using Inkscape's toolbar. I often use the shortcuts for tool switching, but now I'm painfully reminded of each time I don't. I would expect users who make less use of shortcuts to be hit harder. For any application with an important toolbar or similar on the left, offsetting the Launcher is not possible, as there is not not enough space left. Triggering only when you slam the pointer to the edge does not help, as the user does that anyway, to get to the target area as fast as possible. Triggering only if the pointer reaches negative coordinates is not an option, as that either is too hard to trigger, or will happen as soon as you slam the pointer towards the edge. As long as the Launcher stays on the left and does not stay fixed on the screen *, application should avoid putting important stuff in proximity. But complex application may have so many tools and options that it may be painful, layout-wise, to avoid an entire edge. * To be clear, I do not recommend to get rid of the Launcher hiding behavior, as screen space is too precious for that on anything but very large displays (perhaps). -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] semi-transparent indicator menus
But menus shouldn't be covering the entire screen anyway, unlike the launcher. On Oct 30, 2011 6:20 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:17, Matt Richardson m.richardson.1...@hotmail.co.uk wrote: I love this idea so I did some mockups: Desktop http://ubuntuone.com/6Oysw1NarMc480p07l7wIm Dash http://ubuntuone.com/6NLh3oKNIJ0ALbfyRoogv5 Window Theme http://ubuntuone.com/05Hl8aeQbAMt5avbm3uMLm Indicator Menu http://ubuntuone.com/6zGYwEXymv7HvbN8Y6PYD6 I recommend downloading the attachments and viewing them fullscreen to get a real idea. Your mockups are really good work, perhaps you want to include them into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ayatana/MeMenu%20Mockups on the point of opacity i still see the problem as less one of taste and more one of interaction.. a transparent menu allows you to maintain your awareness of things happening on your desktop, even while the menu is open above content. An opaque menu doesn't allow that, it thereby steals your visual focus for the moment of interaction, and the price of having a better background is much higher than the value or duration of the interaction: focus is lost. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New design: Opening applications and documents automatically at login
I know ideas like this have been discussed before, but what about implementing a stack based system (like Android) that would keep running and recently used apps in RAM, or making more aggressive use of the Linux disk cache? Possibly an option to load an app into the cache upon logging in (or after a delay). That way, the app is ready to start, but doesn't slow down the system by using the CPU. On Oct 24, 2011 10:36 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: Den 24. okt. 2011 23:49, skrev Evan Huus: Something else just occurred to me that can maybe be put in the 'nice to have' bucket for future consideration: delayed opening. For non-critical applications like Gwibber, it would be nice if they could be set to load 10ish seconds after the rest of the desktop, just to make the core system feel that much snappier. Again, very nice work. Thanks, Evan Absolutely! I've been thinking a lot about this lately. Things like Banshee is something I'm going to use at some point, and it'll usually be on a whim. Thanks to the great Unity, I'm able to open pretty much any song I want in five seconds. Except that I have to wait about two minutes for Banshee to start. This is reducing that experience dramatically. For my use, it would be nice if it could be delayed for two minutes, then started in the background at a high nice, and then, when I ask for it, it's reniced to a normal level. The same goes for Ubuntu Software Center, which is _horrible_ to start. Other people may feel the same way about LibreOffice or other applications that requires lots of time to start. The main idea is to make the desktop load very quickly, then later, make heavy apps appear nearly instantaneously. Lots of stuff to do here. Jo-Erlend Schinstad __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
The letters in the Segoe example run together, and in My opinion are a bit harder to read than the Ubuntu example. In addition to this, they look clearer because of improper hinting settings, which detracts from the visual appearance of the characters and also makes them harder to read. 2011/10/20 Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com: I've created such a comparsion. First label shows default monospace font in Windows and in Ubuntu (gedit). Second label (Setup is loading...) shows Windows interface font (setup program) compared to Ubuntu interface font (made in Glade). See how much Windows fonts are clearer and take a lot less space than Ubuntu fonts. 90% of computer users in the world don't have any problem with size that Windows uses (I think they spent a lot more money on research what font size they should be using) - let's say 10% of them change the size of the font. It still leaves 80% of world computer users satisfied (maybe more, not counting Macs) with the font we see in Windows. Even with a lot less userbase MORE Ubuntu users are complaining about font size. Imagine when reading a source code file in gedit you have to scroll every few lines.. then you have to find where you've left reading. It hurts your eyes and makes using of computer a simple pain in the backside. Of coure - Ubuntu 11 looks fancy. But users will do more than looking at the screenshots. If they see that the system is useless except for listening to music, watching videos and browsing Facebook - they just stick to using Windows. With such big fonts and additional padding, windows in Ubuntu are a lot bigger than in other systems. If this is by design, then the design is simply completely wrong. You can't satisfy all users, but you should try satisfying most user's needs, instead of personal preferences of the designers. W dniu 2011-10-20 15:00, Thibaut Brandscheid pisze: 2011/10/17 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com mailto:m...@canonical.com What would help here is for someone to make a screenshot comparison of the same windows, laid out in exactly the same positions, on Ubuntu, Windows, and OS X. We might find that the problem is partly font size, but partly also size and padding of interface controls. Here are two similar images showing the file browser and text editor in Windows 7 and Ubuntu Oneiric. * Ubuntu http://image-upload.de/image/KUAqjL/28a9103bae.png * Windows 7 http://image-upload.de/image/uyfCCE/e1bc89e7fa.png Padding (buttons) and font size are smaller and therefore the interface looks feels cleaner in Windows 7. Thats the reason why smaller windows seems to be more useful in Windows than in Ubuntu (compared same sized windows). Traditionally GNOME has a lot of padding (negative example → Totem controls) and wasts a lot of screen space (has been reduced a bit last cycles). So what to do? * Analise every default application UI if they need that big buttons and that much padding/margin o use the same padding/margin in every application if possible * Reduce padding and font size - just a bit → huge difference Kind regards Thibaut PS: If anybody uses Ubuntu, Win and Mac and could make more comparison screenshots it would be awesome. I use Windows only for gaming → my Wintendoo ;) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Tomasz Sałaciński ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
I've only ever seen one person adjust the font size on any OS, Ubuntu or otherwise. This person needed the font larger so that he could see easier, and a basic font-size setting is present in Universal Access for people with such needs. Other users *shouldn't* need to adjust their font size, Here are the dependencies for gnome-tweak-tool: ian@Callum:~$ apt-cache depends gnome-tweak-tool gnome-tweak-tool |Depends: python2.7 Depends: python2.6 Depends: python Depends: python Depends: gnome-shell Depends: gsettings-desktop-schemas ian@Callum:~$ The only dependency that isn't installed by default is gnome-shell. Together with gnome-tweak-tool, installing it uses slightly more than 5.5 MB on disk. It will not change any settings nor will it cause gnome-shell to be used instead of Unity, and thus installation has a minimal effect on the system. On top of all of this, gnome-tweak-tool isn't any more third-party than the default control center, as both are developed by gnome upstream. It comes from a reputable source and has a minimal effect on a system. Given this, I would find it hard to route resources away from active development in needed areas to develop a suitable replacement, when such a replacement would only find a niche market anyway. Also, we use slight hinting by default because on most monitors, it is most accurate to the shapes of the font. Settings for changing the hinting style are also found in the Tweak tool. On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 08:26, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: Normally, I would agree with having to install a third-party app to fine tune a very deep and minor system setting, but font size is not such a setting and I completely disagree with your position here. We have all been criticizing Gnome-Shell for being non-customizable and were hoping Ubuntu could improve on that although they use the same Gnome backend. I understand not having the man-power to implement this but please don't give the sorry excuse of most people Eylem On 10/16/11 2:45 AM, Ian Santopietro wrote: No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post
Re: [Ayatana] Gnome-tweak-tool by default
I disagree. The current setup is fine. Most users will never need nor want to modify any of the settings that gnome-tweak-tool provides. For the users that do it'svery easy to learn where the settings are and how to get them. Gnome-tweak-tool provides access to a lot of irrelevant settings. In addition to overwhelming the user with options, it exposes settings specific to gbome-shell, which is not installed. The presence of these options would confuse the user, when they learn that they don't appear to do anything. On Oct 15, 2011 8:53 PM, Roland Taylor rolandi...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/15/2011 03:09 PM, James Gifford wrote: Hello Brandon, This is something that has been discussed before - it'd be better to create a system tweak tool that handles everything - think ccsm, gnome-tweak-tool and ubuntu tweak all in one. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 2:36 PM, Brandon Watkins bwa...@gmail.com wrote: I've seen many reactions to the new ubuntu 11.10 release, and one veyr common critisism is missing settings (particularly font settings. The excellent gnome-tweak-tool brings back almost all of the commonly missed settings and a lot of new users don't seem to know about it. This is really something that should be installed by default in ubuntu. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp It's about time we stop backing away from common sense (no offense anyone).. Put the configs in the right control center by default, end of story. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] reduce the font and ui size!
No. It does appeal to some people, but the large majority have no preferences to what the font size is. If you want to change font settings to your liking, you can do this from the gnome-tweak-tool application. You can install it from the software center. On Oct 15, 2011 1:56 PM, Tomasz Sałaciński tsalacin...@gmail.com wrote: I agree with this in 100%. W dniu 15.10.2011 20:58, charlesa...@gmail.com pisze: dear unity developer team, could you please reduce the default font and ui size of unity and ubuntu overall, they really taking much screen real estate, or at least give us option to reduce the dpi or ppi setting like the one in windows. after playing with unity and ubuntu 11.04 and 11.10, and changing back to windows, it feels that windows font and ui size are much better, perhaps because it's smaller. for people who love big size font and ui still could enlarge them from dpi or ppi setting. in windows there's a 96% ppi, 100% ppi, and 125% ppi. i also believe in mac osx, the font and ui size are almost identical small with windows. with all due respect, we're still young, perhaps the bigger one for the old folks, i know my boss love the bigger font size since he is 50+ years old. at least make it more attractive with younger audience. i often to reduce font size in gnome classic to get the point as windows font and ui size, but somehow they still look big for monitors under 1920x1080 resolution. :( i've been quite a long ubuntu users since 7.04 up until now. our office use ubuntu as their primary os up to the end 2010 and changed back to windows due to back office program changing. though unity has great appearance, i find it hard to use when opening multi applications and change them back and forth. gotta love the old task bar on top or below. the side bar is really short due to all monitor tends to have shorter vertical pixel. anyway, keep up the good work, looking forward to 12.04 lts version! hope the UI experience will be much smoother and more polished. kind regards, /charles everytime i get ahead, i feel more dead. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash
Try searching for only Terminal. The Dash is more about the application name, not the command. For the command gnome-terminal, use Alt+F2 On 10/12/2011 07:51 PM, anthropornis wrote: Just a gentle reminder, saving space in the menu bar is not an issue for those of us with bigger screens. The more indicators, the better, for my use case. So hopefully removal of them will be optional per user. On 10/12/2011 08:41 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Carl Ansell wrote on 10/10/11 17:12: A recent update placed logout, shut down and restart controls into the dash. I think it would be useful to have these located in the bottom right corner of the dash rather than in the lens results, as this would make them accessible when using any lens. ... I like that idea. That would save those commands from being jumbled up with other search results -- you wouldn't need to search for them at all. It would mean we wouldn't need the device menu any more, which would save space in the menu bar. Least importantly, it would be more consistent with other OSes, and therefore easier for people migrating. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk6Viw4ACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqnOgCgoVkAI/1qndXGgMzW/rLMM/or 2AMAn3DYwFlxq5snmpu7IhbxCT3EVv0Q =KmI6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What's up with all the non-resizable windows?
On Thu 13 Oct 2011 03:22:12 PM MDT, Stefanos A. wrote: 2011/10/13 Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com mailto:m...@canonical.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Stefanos A. wrote on 13/10/11 15:09: I just installed 11.10, just to be assaulted by ugly non-resizable windows. Why, oh why? Off-hand, I recall the official installer, which cannot be resized when the show details area does not fit inside the window. This happens in the downloading packages and installing packages parts of the installation - since you can't resize the window, you cannot see what actions are being taken by the installer. This seems to be http://launchpad.net/bugs/149911, which was reported in 2007, so it's not specific to 11.10. In previous versions of the installer I could read messages just fine. In 11.10 I can't, on all three different systems I tested, because there is no space for these messages to appear. This is on the English version, so it's not the bug in your link. The new System Settings control panel also fits the bill. This is *especially* aggravating, since the window is a tad too big for a 1366x768 or 1280x800 screen (that's what most laptops use). Today, I had an issue with a misconfigured keyboard shortcut, so I opened an internet article that described the fix. In such occasions, I arrange the browser window and the configuration window side-by-side, so I can refer to the article while fixing the issue. Or that's what I used to do, since the new settings window *cannot be resized* to fit side-by-side on my monitor. It's always there, taking up lots of space, *covering* the article with the instructions I need. Like most dialogs, many of the System Settings panels are designed with a particular size in mind. For the window to be manually resizable would be inappropriate. Why? Why are they designed for a specific size, when that's against the Gnome HIG? What if I use a larger font or a different screen size? If the window is too large for an important proportion of screens, that's a bug that should be fixed, not an excuse for making the window resizable. These dialogs were proper resizable windows in 11.04, so this is a regression not an excuse. Besides, what is the common thread between a proper ok, cancel dialog and something like the mouse settings panel or the ubuntu installer? That's a rhetorical question, these things have absolutely *nothing* in common. If you have a more convincing argument than inappropriate I would love to hear it. What is this new fad? Microsoft abandoned modal/non-resizable windows after WinXP. That isn't true. But it is. A /top-level/ window has no owner window and is displayed on the taskbar. Examples: application windows. In Windows Vista and later, dialog boxes without owner windows and property sheets are also considered top-level. From MSDN (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511262.aspx) (And parented dialogs are not recommended for new applications.) Apple just added more resize borders in their latest OS. That made it easier to resize windows that are already resizable. It has nothing to do with which windows are resizable in the first place. So why was ubuntu installer made non-resizable in the first place? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp But they still aren't resizeable. The Open/Save dialogs are a great example. And I've never seen a resizable installer window in Windows. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Unity panel
I actually made a Gnome Theme for this for Ubuntu 11.04. It was called the Unity Theme, and the only thing it did was change the Unity Panel to match the launcher. However, in 11.10, the Panel changes the blend with the dash and launcher when the dash is open, and it isn't really necessary any more. On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 12:38, Michal Strba faiface2...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everybody! This suggestion is only about design nothing more. I think that unity panel in ubuntu looks bit boring. It looks (of course it isn't functionally identical) as panel in 10.04+. I think that it should match with launcher (transparency and style). Of course with this will be a design problem with maximized apps because window title merges with panel. When an app is maximized it should be same as now it. What do you think about it? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] How to disable Music Available for Purchase
For those people, in those situations, uninstalling the music store scope is the best option. On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 13:23, Josh Strawbridge holyknightjos...@gmail.com wrote: for some people and in some places it's much more important to keep track of your internet use than in others. for instance the way some places in the world have internet usage caps for some plans that are so low a few youtube videos will easily put someone at their cap. so while one search might not be much they do add up. it doesn't have to be a privacy issue for it to still be an issue. On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: The thing is this isn't really a privacy issue. Sure, when you open the music lens and search for a song, it looks for the song online. But this isn't tied to the main Dash search (Home icon, or the one that opens by default). So it won't send out information at any time, only when you search on the music lens. And when you search on the music lens, you're looking for a song name, which aren't really confidential. On top of all of this, the data sent isn't any different from running a search on Google or Amazon. It doesn't send any information about *You*, only the query. It's still sending information, but it isn't sensitive, and none of it can be linked to you specifically. On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 03:31, Thibaut Brandscheid randal...@web.de wrote: sudo apt-get remove unity-scope-musicstores Thanks a lot for this answer. I like the way Canonical went so fare - brave good decisions - and Unity, but if Ubuntu starts to send out all kind of things to the net. I for my part will not stay and remove every time I do a fresh install these components, I will just move to another flavor (Lubuntu) or leave Ubuntu behind. For the moment my problem is solved with the removal of this package, but what is with all the other average people out there that don't know how to remove it and aren't okay with it either (sending there data unquestioned to the net)? Thibaut ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Josh Strawbridge ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash
Since shutting down, logging out, etc. is a relatively infrequent task, I think it's better to save the clutter in this case. The shutdown options are pretty easily available from the device menu in case you do need them and happen to be in the wrong lens to search for them. Additionally, since you're typically finished with something when you use them, I don't think that loads of UI optimization are really necessary for these functions. On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 10:12, Carl Ansell afccarl1...@hotmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 A recent update placed logout, shut down and restart controls into the dash. I think it would be useful to have these located in the bottom right corner of the dash rather than in the lens results, as this would make them accessible when using any lens. This would be too late for Oneiric, but maybe added in time for Precise? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOkxlZAAoJEJzT5/sMwKUXE3IH/i53zmoFwl60Y4hBzpPbAx/K fEYpKv+db+mdtFnBoM1Rth5rGGZA8I4/evc/yz/Yt527bwCLcVGoHjJr+clFKcL/ v8GAYi/frMEYu8+6RsTMSCvV1zPC43bnP/kA3x7yGbs1UNYQA4VTpqZQH0DGIzWJ izMwuYUIWB7ebA3tSzrFo96eWtqUSJav2+6ulcBLEtmz1GFKuuu//DFqDmefdHtS vCqRtUSPKvoqbVzWvbVcjVnBXhiQTfb+WmnFfTZVlTDB13sYH0afLA0Jmo3tK0KR JqktkfSjH5GsV/L6IRBNdAb5ej2s8koZC7lxS8UkHiLuC/cDSUwOLKRa6xaUUsA= =sqmU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash
@David: It is, and that option hasn't gone away. Now, in addition to that, Logout, Shutdown, and restart also appear in the apps lens results. So you can either use the device menu (Power Cog), or you can hit super, and type log, shu, or res as well. On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:04, David da...@kvr.com.au wrote: I don't understand, I thought the way to shutdown/logout etc was by clicking on the cog in the top right and selecting shut down...? - ikt - Original Message - From: Carl Ansell afccarl1...@hotmail.com To: ayatana ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Sent: Tuesday, 11 October, 2011 2:42:15 AM Subject: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 A recent update placed logout, shut down and restart controls into the dash. I think it would be useful to have these located in the bottom right corner of the dash rather than in the lens results, as this would make them accessible when using any lens. This would be too late for Oneiric, but maybe added in time for Precise? -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOkxlZAAoJEJzT5/sMwKUXE3IH/i53zmoFwl60Y4hBzpPbAx/K fEYpKv+db+mdtFnBoM1Rth5rGGZA8I4/evc/yz/Yt527bwCLcVGoHjJr+clFKcL/ v8GAYi/frMEYu8+6RsTMSCvV1zPC43bnP/kA3x7yGbs1UNYQA4VTpqZQH0DGIzWJ izMwuYUIWB7ebA3tSzrFo96eWtqUSJav2+6ulcBLEtmz1GFKuuu//DFqDmefdHtS vCqRtUSPKvoqbVzWvbVcjVnBXhiQTfb+WmnFfTZVlTDB13sYH0afLA0Jmo3tK0KR JqktkfSjH5GsV/L6IRBNdAb5ej2s8koZC7lxS8UkHiLuC/cDSUwOLKRa6xaUUsA= =sqmU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash
I don't think matching any terminal commands in the applications lens is a good idea. The Alt+F2 command lens is a better place for that. On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 11:58, Thibaut Brandscheid randal...@web.de wrote: Hi all A recent update placed logout, shut down and restart controls into the dash. I think its a good idea to have access to them through the Dash. But there are some problems with these controls: no Dash results for the commonly known terminal commands, like: halt shutdown (without a space between shut and down) reboot can't suspend or hibernate → inconsistent system control icons spam the application lens Doese a bug report already exists for the 'halt or reboot not shown in Dash' problem? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] RFC: How to handle wine apps in Unity?
It's just like applications in Ubuntu. The .exe is an executable that gets linked to, then when you click the link, the application runs. The problem is that the applications also create .exe files for all of their uninstallers, and many create one for a Repair function, and all of these also get linked into the start menu. So it's not nearly as simple as one might think to sort out which ones are the applications and which ones are the support binaries. On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 13:24, Carl Ansell afccarl1...@hotmail.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Don't Windows applications run by accessing the .exe file created during the install? Would it be possible to tell Unity to only search for .exe files installed under the Wine directory? This would remove the issue of finding other files such as text readme files that clutter up the search. On 03/10/11 17:29, Ian Santopietro wrote: One could argue that the current system looks bad in Gnome 2 as well, like it does on that other OS! In all seriousness, I think a Wine lens is definitely the way to go. The new APIs in 11.10 should make it relatively easy to get a scope and lens up and running. On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 02:43, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com mailto:mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com wrote: Hi all, I am thinking through bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/__unity-lens-applications/+bug/__753276 https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-applications/+bug/753276 Currently no way to find wine apps in dash other than searching them from search bar, and I think it would be helpful with some good suggestions on the matter. Disclaimer: I am not gonna be the one who makes the final call on the solution, that will be up to the design team. This is just a brain storm. Problem statement: Wine likes to install apps in a deeply nested hierarchy of folders (because that's like it works on Windows, I assume). Behold this beauty for instance https://launchpadlibrarian.__net/71484404/looks-bad-in-__unity.png https://launchpadlibrarian.net/71484404/looks-bad-in-unity.png. This maps poorly to the Unity UX because the apps lens uses a flat system for the filters. Factoring in that the Wine launchers are named generically because they are assumed to be read in the context of the entire path to their location, we start getting hits on README and Uninstall and suchlikes in Unity. Eeek! ;-) It'll be helpful if you read the bug report as well. Implementing nested browsing of folders in the apps lens is the obvious solution, but that also breaks horribly with the current user experience. So the question is not how can we make it like it was in Gnome2, but how can we get the best UX with the Unity UI language?. Pasting my own (only) idea from the bug: ... to not include Wine apps in the apps lens, but write a dedicated lens for Wine apps. Each app could then live in its' own category, bundling all related launchers in that category. Living in a dedicated lens gives much more wiggle room for custom layout and interactions. It still doesn't entirely solve the problem in the global dash search though, where you'd end up with hits in the odd launchers... Cheers, Mikkel _ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/__ListHelp https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro /Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html/ Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJOigveAAoJEJzT5/sMwKUXzJMIAJOdLBP7W+YAGgOEsumNlFao Au4kUbRsFk9px9EffzukOYdh0rlu1tsBrVbYC8YE5vuTyC5mk0vGBSwBNRlsajbm Pk0jZYjErCgFCDbKeCkT3agrbV15z2F9F/V6Hw1sUv345/y0nuyQNYf2b/vP6ggk /4xpaLaozUnfcznkAdo5PrNh16/MeR+Mjw/vzRXrvww9QTh0rgcjaEsn+bPz8kHG iuSidGSyyRpcS/Svzrk1CUQsgWFDHqJdMl1GiJNKI5sg0kfvpKJDc97O7muoDHWE s4AJ34cPVDNyqysdO4rKmdNrikfwIzK+5fp+nMEHIwJgwWqJ+JgM+XVhZvVCLCs= =c5x+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana
Re: [Ayatana] Bug.
This appears to be a bug with Ubuntu One. You should be able to workaround by disabling Ubuntu One with this command: u1sdtool -q On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 11:42, Anup Verma anupverm...@gmail.com wrote: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/865734 Now, I can not open the Desktop/ Documents/ Downloads/ Music/ Pictures graphically (neither through the Home Folder nor using Dash). If anyone can find a solution it would be great. I am a tyro so I think I can only provide you with the outputs of commands that you ask me to run on terminal. Otherwise I will have to just restore back to the previous snapshot in the Virtual Box. Thanks - Anup Verma ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Re-design applications to fit with the global menu
That solution was proposed, and while it had merit, the problem with it was that it becomes very difficult to move a window around. People need the title bar because it's a good place to click to move windows around. It's a comfortable paradigm that works. On Oct 4, 2011 11:48 PM, gespert...@gmail.com gespert...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I'd like the global menu to be optional. I have tried to use it in my desktop, and with any screen beyond 20 inches it becomes pretty annoying. Any application in a small window placed in the lower half of the screen becomes a problem. Any small windows placed in the right half of the screen becomes a problem. It takes an extra effort to discover if the menu you're accessing belongs to the app you want. In my oppinion, it's a step backwards, and if the problem was vertical space, why not rendering the menu on the top border of the window's chrome instead? The drawing package MyPaint has added recently (in its development version) an interesting concept, similar to Opera's menu button. AFAIK Gnome3's global menu uses a similar aproach (a single button with the name of the app that rolls down the menu bar, arranged vertically) I wonder if that can't be rendered on the chrome instead of an exclusive menu bar when it's windowed and rendered on the global menu when maximized. The vertical space saved would be exactly the same. It's compatible with the window buttons position both in maximized and windowed states, it allows to display the entire name instead of that ugly small portion of the title faded out horizontally and wouldn't give problems even in a panel full of indicators in a small screen. What do you think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Bug
You should probably file a bug on launchpad. I can't seem to replicate it, but you should have a look at doing that anyway. They'll be able to tell you what is causing the problem, and either get it fixed (if it's a bug) or tell you how to fix it (if it's specific to your machine). Run this command: ubuntu-bug gnome-screenshot On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 05:04, Anup Verma anupverm...@gmail.com wrote: When I take a screenshot using the PrintScreen key, either a black screen is saved or only the desktop background is saved. I am using Ubuntu 11.10. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] RFC: How to handle wine apps in Unity?
One could argue that the current system looks bad in Gnome 2 as well, like it does on that other OS! In all seriousness, I think a Wine lens is definitely the way to go. The new APIs in 11.10 should make it relatively easy to get a scope and lens up and running. On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 02:43, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen mikkel.kamst...@canonical.com wrote: Hi all, I am thinking through bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/** unity-lens-applications/+bug/**753276https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity-lens-applications/+bug/753276Currently no way to find wine apps in dash other than searching them from search bar, and I think it would be helpful with some good suggestions on the matter. Disclaimer: I am not gonna be the one who makes the final call on the solution, that will be up to the design team. This is just a brain storm. Problem statement: Wine likes to install apps in a deeply nested hierarchy of folders (because that's like it works on Windows, I assume). Behold this beauty for instance https://launchpadlibrarian.** net/71484404/looks-bad-in-**unity.pnghttps://launchpadlibrarian.net/71484404/looks-bad-in-unity.png. This maps poorly to the Unity UX because the apps lens uses a flat system for the filters. Factoring in that the Wine launchers are named generically because they are assumed to be read in the context of the entire path to their location, we start getting hits on README and Uninstall and suchlikes in Unity. Eeek! ;-) It'll be helpful if you read the bug report as well. Implementing nested browsing of folders in the apps lens is the obvious solution, but that also breaks horribly with the current user experience. So the question is not how can we make it like it was in Gnome2, but how can we get the best UX with the Unity UI language?. Pasting my own (only) idea from the bug: ... to not include Wine apps in the apps lens, but write a dedicated lens for Wine apps. Each app could then live in its' own category, bundling all related launchers in that category. Living in a dedicated lens gives much more wiggle room for custom layout and interactions. It still doesn't entirely solve the problem in the global dash search though, where you'd end up with hits in the odd launchers... Cheers, Mikkel __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. If I want to actually run a command in a terminal, then I place a terminal shortcut in launcher position #7 (for example) and the can subsequently press Super-7 to open the terminal, at which point I can run my command. This is equally as fast as the Windows examples, and doesn't rely on exposing the command prompt to new users (which is a good thing). For one-offs, I can still use Alt-F2. On Sep 27, 2011 3:58 PM, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/27 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com Adding a 5th stop just makes it harder to get to it. The point of having the separate dashes, as I see it, is to provide very quick access to both pieces of very important functionality. Alt-F2 will still be available. I suggested the *addition* of a way to move between Alt-F1 and Alt-F2 modes, not the removal of Alt-F2. See my previous post for the rationale. There isn't really a reason to switch from one to the other, since they behave differently (i.e. you wouldn't use Alt+F2 to open firefox, and you wouldn't use Dash to run killall thunderbird). They behave differently but they look identical - the current watertight division is completely artificial. Try explaining the difference between Alt-F1 and Alt-F2 to a new user in a single sentence (no, really, try!) Besides, why wouldn't I use the Dash to killall thunderbird? What if I press Alt-F1 instead of Alt-F2 by mistake? Should I close the Dash, reopen it in Alt-F2 mode and retype the whole command? That's not very user-friendly (and, yes, this happens to me from time to time). Gnome Do used to support this seamlessly and effortlessly, by offering an execute command in terminal option along with launch application and search files. There is very little reason why the Dash supports the latter two in the same way but compartmentalizes the first into a separate place. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
It is simple, but it isn't intuitive. Pressing enter (in combination with any other key) indicates that you want to do an action with the item selected on the screen. We don't want the dash to search commands, as this is not end-user friendly. A new user should never have to know what a command is, and if our simple launcher exposes it to them, we've lost one battle right there. You can't make it hidden either, since then it isn't clear what exactly will be done, which is also bad design. With present and past Alt+F2 implementations, you can always see what exactly will run when you press enter. The old Gnome-panel Run Command dialog was dedicated to this. The new Unity implementation does this and tells you visually what will happen by presenting the command as a search result. And, this would likely include removing the standard Alt+F2 access, since having both would be redundant and bloated. This brings back the whole problem that Unity's Alt+F2 solved in the first place. On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 12:54, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/28 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com But Alt-F1 triggers keyboard navigation of the launcher, not the dash. You can switch directlyfrom there to either dash or the Run dialog without any other action. To open the dash, briefly press and release Super, which is a very different shortcut from Alt-F2, and not likely to be confused. It is true they look identical and serve very different functions, but be cause they are each accessed so differently, it's unlikely that a user would open one when they meant to open the other. You are right, please replace all my Alt-F1 references by Super. That's what you get for writing without coffee in the morning. As for it being unlikely, I'd argue that it isn't. There are many times where I hit Super only to decide I'd rather enter a command rather than launch an application. Right now it's impossible to mode-switch easily, because you have to close and reopen the Dash. This fells ugly. And one might use killall Thunderbird to terminate Thunderbird if it freezes. It was a rhetorical example, but the point is that sometimes it is useful to run a command without opening a terminal, particularly if you would then immediately close the terminal. Indeed, which is why I use the Alt-F2 prompt. What I am arguing for is a way to access Alt-F2 functionality from the main Dash. Several ways were presented. My favourite so far: Enter key launches application (as now); Ctrl+Enter interprets the text as a command. Simple and intuitive. -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
Adding a 5th stop just makes it harder to get to it. The point of having the separate dashes, as I see it, is to provide very quick access to both pieces of very important functionality. As it stands, that goal is accomplished. There isn't really a reason to switch from one to the other, since they behave differently (i.e. you wouldn't use Alt+F2 to open firefox, and you wouldn't use Dash to run killall thunderbird). On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 08:32, Stefanos A. stapos...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/27 James Jenner james.g.jen...@gmail.com Not a big fan of using something like ~ or $ or # in a lens either. That was my suggestion but it appears it keeps getting misunderstood. You'd *never* have to type such strange symbols in the dash. That's insane. What I suggested is adding a keyboard *shortcut* that changes from Alt-F1 mode to Alt-F2 mode and vice versa. A key like ~, ! or . could work here, as they don't appear in application names (gnome-do uses . (dot), IIRC). These are merely suggestions. Juan suggest Control+Enter to interpret input as a terminal command. That's even better! No need for a toggle, either mode is directly accessible. Another suggestion: add a 5th tab-stop for the Alt-F2 mode. Right now you can use tab to change between four locations (lens?): 'applications', 'documents', etc. Add a 5th stop and the goal is achieved. What's the rationale for this suggestion? It's that we are currently stuck with two distinct dash modes (Alt-F1 and Alt-F2) that: (a) look identical (b) behave differently, and (c) and are mutually exclusive (once you enter Alt-F2 you can never move back to Alt-F1 without closing and reopening the dash). This can be improved. This should be improved. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash search vs Alt+F2 in 11.10
The question is why lump them together? They both provide two very different functions and the shortcut differencebis sufficient to keep them separate. The current implementation works. Why change it if it isn't broken? On Sep 26, 2011 9:24 PM, Juan Montoya th3pr0p...@gmail.com wrote: I wish there was no difference between Dash search (Super) Alt-F1 and Alt-F2. Both search panels look exactly the same, and should behave exactly the same. Why not something like? Enter: Open the first search result Ctrl-Enter: Run as a command ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] User-Indicator/Me-Menu shows icon AND user-name (adds clutter to 11.10)
I think that could be difficulty to design i'm such a way that it doesn't look like a glitch. On Sep 18, 2011 10:04 AM, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: Perhaps the text icon could be connected or placed together without a space separating them? something to make them appear connected? Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 22:45:42 +0200 From: joerlend.schins...@gmail.com To: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] User-Indicator/Me-Menu shows icon AND user-name (adds clutter to 11.10) Den 17. sep. 2011 22:35, skrev nick rundy: In the top-panel in the upper-right corner of Oneiric Ocelot where the Indicators list, every indicator has one icon/entry representing it except for the User/Me Indicator. It has two. It displays a human-shaped head/shoulders (bust) AND the written name of the user. It mistakenly gives the impression to users that TWO indicators are represented. Is that a mistake? The text indicates which user is logged in. That might be important in many cases, such as a shared computer in an office or in a family. The icon should indicate your availability like it does in 11.04. Then they actually are two different indicators for two different aspects of the same entity, and hence it makes sense to let them share one menu. Jo-Erlend Schinstad ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Software center icon needs designers minds, and new humanity desktop methafor.
By people, I mean Human Beings of all levels of computer literacy and backgrounds, which is precisely Ubuntu's target demographic. The point I was trying to make is that there was a time that people were unfamiliar with the idea of a shopping bag icon being used to represent a place to get both paid and free apps. At one point, everyone had to learn to use their Android phone. The metaphor worked in this case, so I believe that it would work in this case as well. It's not copying a successful model, it's taking something that users are either A) familiar with or B) will pick up on quickly. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 23:28, gespert...@gmail.com gespert...@gmail.comwrote: First: who is people? You need to define an audience. Do you assume that newcomers are people who come from Android phones to a desktop OS? If Ubuntu's audience is computer literate people with smartphones and previous experience with appstores that use a shopping bag as an icon, then great. We're all set. But if your audience is regular people from any part of the globe, coming from windows (where they're trying to sell you programs all the time you have to surf the web for freebies), then things are different. As far as I can remember Ubuntu motto is linux for human beings and the CD envelopes used to have a nice multi-racial circle of friends, aiming to be inclusive and bring this operating system to anyone. And if you ask me, the shopping bag icon isn't that. If the audience is people who own a smartphone, then you're leaving most of the humanity out of the frame. Think what does a shopping bag mean to a third world country and probably you'll get what I mean. Forget the shopping bag became an icon for acquiring goods. A shopping bag is a shopping bag. If in this part of the world that icon is familiar it's because we're used to buy things instead of just getting them. Using the same shopping bag used by Android and Microsoft, Ubuntu only shows it can't go beyond copying a successful model. It's not original, it's not completely pertinent and it even doesn't look good when it is reduced. 2011/9/6 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com: I don't think people necessarily associate shopping bags with paid apps. People using Android (Which uses a bag as it's icon) tend to get more free apps than paid ones. They still use the Market icon, which looks like a shopping bag. I very rarely see any Android users opening up the browser to go to the internet and look for some free .apks. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 18:40, gespert...@gmail.com gespert...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/9/6 Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com: How about putting the U with the downward arrow (http://ubuntuone.com/30SgZIkoCLbxKWGhS2CUpY) on the side of the bag? Don't. Please. I pointed an alternative to show that it is possible to come up with something different than a shopping bag in a simple, readable manner. Stuffing this simpler idea on an already cluttered icon with serious problems in small sizes won't help. If the meaning of the bag alone isn't enough to communicate the idea, then it's not matter of adding elements to the bag, but to think a difference alternative. Remember that an icon needs to be as clear as possible to communicate its function in different sizes. Simplicity favours that. I'm so against the bag icon not because I think commerce is bad. I'm against it because shopping apps ISN'T the primary function of our software centre. Other appstores have a strong commercial presence with several freebies. Our store is quite different: we have lots of free applications and very few commercial ones. This can change in the future, of course, but in the meantime, the icon communicate enter here to buy applications when it's not the case. Without an explaination, people could dismiss that icon thinking I don't want to buy applications, I'll go to the internet and see where I can get some free .exes :-p ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https
Re: [Ayatana] Software center icon needs designers minds, and new humanity desktop methafor.
I don't think people necessarily associate shopping bags with paid apps. People using Android (Which uses a bag as it's icon) tend to get more free apps than paid ones. They still use the Market icon, which looks like a shopping bag. I very rarely see any Android users opening up the browser to go to the internet and look for some free .apks. On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 18:40, gespert...@gmail.com gespert...@gmail.comwrote: 2011/9/6 Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com: How about putting the U with the downward arrow (http://ubuntuone.com/30SgZIkoCLbxKWGhS2CUpY) on the side of the bag? Don't. Please. I pointed an alternative to show that it is possible to come up with something different than a shopping bag in a simple, readable manner. Stuffing this simpler idea on an already cluttered icon with serious problems in small sizes won't help. If the meaning of the bag alone isn't enough to communicate the idea, then it's not matter of adding elements to the bag, but to think a difference alternative. Remember that an icon needs to be as clear as possible to communicate its function in different sizes. Simplicity favours that. I'm so against the bag icon not because I think commerce is bad. I'm against it because shopping apps ISN'T the primary function of our software centre. Other appstores have a strong commercial presence with several freebies. Our store is quite different: we have lots of free applications and very few commercial ones. This can change in the future, of course, but in the meantime, the icon communicate enter here to buy applications when it's not the case. Without an explaination, people could dismiss that icon thinking I don't want to buy applications, I'll go to the internet and see where I can get some free .exes :-p ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Software center icon needs designers minds, and new humanity desktop methafor.
Those do look nice. The only thing I would change would be to show a down-arrow pointing to a line, to indicate a download. On Sep 5, 2011 11:36 PM, dani daniplana...@gmail.com wrote: I made a new proposal for desktop icon becose i don't like actuals, hope you like. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/79074041/desktop%20preview.png I atach the icons in the bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/humanity-icon-theme/+bug/838256 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Hybrid (panel/launcher) top left corner button
Because the window controls should have gone in the corner, and the Usability testing did show that people were clicking on the top icon in the launcher to try and open the dash. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:34, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: OK, sorry, I got it wrong it seems. But then, why oh why did the Ubuntu button have to leave the top left corner? If it did not look like a button, then make it like a button, not displace it. The OP includes a very good mockup for example: http://sites.google.com/site/gandreoliva/hybridbutton I really really think that moving the Ubuntu button out of the very-top-left-corner is a huge mistake. If you really have to place the window control buttons to the very-top-left-corner, then I have a proposal. This just popped into my mind, and goes like this: - Make the Launcher cover the whole left edge, going over the top panel at the top left corner. The Ubuntu button (whatever the design) is at the top of the Launcher. - When the cursor is not directed to the top panel, the Launcher shows or hides according to normal behavior (dodge, autohide, etc). - If the Launcher is showing, the window controls on the left of the top panel are hidden, the active-app name (and title?) is displayed on the top panel (starting from where the window controls would end) and the appmenu is hidden. --- While the Launcher is showing, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE TOP PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LAUNCHER, then the Launcher hides, the window controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact. --- While the Launcher is showing, the user can activate Dash by either clicking on the Ubuntu button or by pushing the cursor to top left corner (second part should be a user configurable option). - If the Launcher is somehow hidden, and the cursor is NOT on the top panel, the window controls are replaced by an Ubuntu logo (monochrome ala 11.04), followed (towards right) by the active-app name (and title?). Note: this Ubuntu logo is not clickable. --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR FIRST HITS THE TOP PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LEFT EDGE, then the window controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact. --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE LEFT EDGE FIRST, the Ubuntu logo on top gracefully grows into a button of its own, while (at the same time) the Launcher fades and/or slides into view (very nice visual attractions can be achieved here). Once the Launcher is shown, the user can click anywhere outside, at which instant, the Launcher and the Ubuntu button fade out of view kind of in a reverse visual effect. (If anyone can make a mockup of this, I'd really appreciate it) I strongly suggest that Canonical and other decision makers consider a design of this sorts, and not move the Ubuntu button completely out of the very-top-corner. I'm certain a compromise (as above suggestion) that is clever ans usable can be achieved between window controls and Ubuntu button. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eylem Koca wrote on 27/08/11 03:49: The current design is justified by the motivation to move the window control buttons to the top left. Apparently, the usability tests for 11.04 design showed that the window controls are better on the top left, so they moved the Ubuntu button out of that location. ... No, the usability test didn't show anything like that. (How could it have, when the test environment used only one placement?) What it did show was that, except for a bug, everyone managed to close a window. However, 4 of 11 people clicked the Me menu thinking it might be the close button. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5c57wACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqBwACdGwSiKNTl4R4mGFP2XxM/VNSk LS0An2j+62m/nhfiU7eQovY2naYb0A3T =5qUv -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net
Re: [Ayatana] Hybrid (panel/launcher) top left corner button
No, I don't think it would. It may provide a workaround, but there are too many if's, which could be inconsistent if the user doesn't know exactly what they're doing. I think if the actions of the dash and launcher can't be explained in one paragraph, then it's too complex. The current iteration of Unity one of the major issues with the revised design: visual distinction from the rest of the launcher items. The other issue, isn't a problem because the super key can be used to invoke the dash instantly anyway. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:46, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: Ian, Do you think my proposal in the previous message could address those issues? I think it would but I'm no expert... Eylem On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Because the window controls should have gone in the corner, and the Usability testing did show that people were clicking on the top icon in the launcher to try and open the dash. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:34, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: OK, sorry, I got it wrong it seems. But then, why oh why did the Ubuntu button have to leave the top left corner? If it did not look like a button, then make it like a button, not displace it. The OP includes a very good mockup for example: http://sites.google.com/site/gandreoliva/hybridbutton I really really think that moving the Ubuntu button out of the very-top-left-corner is a huge mistake. If you really have to place the window control buttons to the very-top-left-corner, then I have a proposal. This just popped into my mind, and goes like this: - Make the Launcher cover the whole left edge, going over the top panel at the top left corner. The Ubuntu button (whatever the design) is at the top of the Launcher. - When the cursor is not directed to the top panel, the Launcher shows or hides according to normal behavior (dodge, autohide, etc). - If the Launcher is showing, the window controls on the left of the top panel are hidden, the active-app name (and title?) is displayed on the top panel (starting from where the window controls would end) and the appmenu is hidden. --- While the Launcher is showing, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE TOP PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LAUNCHER, then the Launcher hides, the window controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact. --- While the Launcher is showing, the user can activate Dash by either clicking on the Ubuntu button or by pushing the cursor to top left corner (second part should be a user configurable option). - If the Launcher is somehow hidden, and the cursor is NOT on the top panel, the window controls are replaced by an Ubuntu logo (monochrome ala 11.04), followed (towards right) by the active-app name (and title?). Note: this Ubuntu logo is not clickable. --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR FIRST HITS THE TOP PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LEFT EDGE, then the window controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact. --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE LEFT EDGE FIRST, the Ubuntu logo on top gracefully grows into a button of its own, while (at the same time) the Launcher fades and/or slides into view (very nice visual attractions can be achieved here). Once the Launcher is shown, the user can click anywhere outside, at which instant, the Launcher and the Ubuntu button fade out of view kind of in a reverse visual effect. (If anyone can make a mockup of this, I'd really appreciate it) I strongly suggest that Canonical and other decision makers consider a design of this sorts, and not move the Ubuntu button completely out of the very-top-corner. I'm certain a compromise (as above suggestion) that is clever ans usable can be achieved between window controls and Ubuntu button. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eylem Koca wrote on 27/08/11 03:49: The current design is justified by the motivation to move the window control buttons to the top left. Apparently, the usability tests for 11.04 design showed that the window controls are better on the top left, so they moved the Ubuntu button out of that location. ... No, the usability test didn't show anything like that. (How could it have, when the test environment used only one placement?) What it did show was that, except for a bug, everyone managed to close a window. However, 4 of 11 people clicked the Me menu thinking it might be the close button. - -- mpt -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5c57wACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecqBwACdGwSiKNTl4R4mGFP2XxM/VNSk LS0An2j+62m/nhfiU7eQovY2naYb0A3T =5qUv -END PGP SIGNATURE
Re: [Ayatana] Unity launcher items usability on right mouse click
No, the item is clickable. When you click on it, it's the same as if you had left clicked on the icon. This is in Unity 3D though, and I see you're in Unity 2D. I'm not sure what the behavior there is. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 14:06, Alex Lourie djay...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.comwrote: I thought that the top actions do things in the application while the bottom actions do things in Unity or the System. Clicking on the application name is the same as clicking on the icon itself. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 07:26, Alex Lourie djay...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all I'm risking here to beat an already dead horse, but here it is: I've just updated my VirtualBox installation of Oneiric, and I have an issue with the Unity launcher items. When right-clicking on any item, the menu shows the following options: some action... some action... some action... ___ Application Name( Unclickable ) ___ some action... some action... For example, in the attached screenshot we can see that for Chromium I can open new windows with different options, then the name Chromium Web Browser, and then Remove from launcher action. I believe that this is a bad design, and some action is required: 1. It is possible to move Chromium Web Browser to the top of the list. 2. It is possible to move Chromium Web Browser to the top of the list and make its appearance notably different than the rest of the actions. 3. It is possible to make Chromium Web Browser to appear notably different than the rest of the actions, for example to be detached completely from the list. I think that the current behaviour is quite confusing, especially for new users and I'll be glad for any feedback on this. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 So, does it mean that there's an unclickable item in the middle of the list?? How's that helping a first-time user? I still think that this is very confusing... -- Alex Lourie -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Hybrid (panel/launcher) top left corner button
I understand your proposal. I think the behavior is too complex. There are too many conditions regard when to show the launcher and when to show the window buttons that it's too confusing for many users. It also doesn't make the Ubuntu button any easier to access, since you still need to aim (for the launcher, since you can't touch the dash). My earlier point stands; the initial problems brought up when this thread was created are now solved, and there doesn't need to be a fix. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 11:17, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: Ian, There may be many if's to describe a use cases but it does not mean the design is inconsistent, or complex to use. Please pay attention to what I'm describing with those if's. They're only for the implementation of the design, not for the user to memorize. There is nothing to learn for the user, but the design has to be able understand (infer) user intention from user action. That's why there are those if's. It's easy to negate others' ideas but I think more time should be spent on understanding them... On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: No, I don't think it would. It may provide a workaround, but there are too many if's, which could be inconsistent if the user doesn't know exactly what they're doing. I think if the actions of the dash and launcher can't be explained in one paragraph, then it's too complex. The current iteration of Unity one of the major issues with the revised design: visual distinction from the rest of the launcher items. The other issue, isn't a problem because the super key can be used to invoke the dash instantly anyway. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:46, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: Ian, Do you think my proposal in the previous message could address those issues? I think it would but I'm no expert... Eylem On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Because the window controls should have gone in the corner, and the Usability testing did show that people were clicking on the top icon in the launcher to try and open the dash. On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 10:34, Eylem Koca eylemk...@gmail.com wrote: OK, sorry, I got it wrong it seems. But then, why oh why did the Ubuntu button have to leave the top left corner? If it did not look like a button, then make it like a button, not displace it. The OP includes a very good mockup for example: http://sites.google.com/site/gandreoliva/hybridbutton I really really think that moving the Ubuntu button out of the very-top-left-corner is a huge mistake. If you really have to place the window control buttons to the very-top-left-corner, then I have a proposal. This just popped into my mind, and goes like this: - Make the Launcher cover the whole left edge, going over the top panel at the top left corner. The Ubuntu button (whatever the design) is at the top of the Launcher. - When the cursor is not directed to the top panel, the Launcher shows or hides according to normal behavior (dodge, autohide, etc). - If the Launcher is showing, the window controls on the left of the top panel are hidden, the active-app name (and title?) is displayed on the top panel (starting from where the window controls would end) and the appmenu is hidden. --- While the Launcher is showing, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE TOP PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LAUNCHER, then the Launcher hides, the window controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact. --- While the Launcher is showing, the user can activate Dash by either clicking on the Ubuntu button or by pushing the cursor to top left corner (second part should be a user configurable option). - If the Launcher is somehow hidden, and the cursor is NOT on the top panel, the window controls are replaced by an Ubuntu logo (monochrome ala 11.04), followed (towards right) by the active-app name (and title?). Note: this Ubuntu logo is not clickable. --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR FIRST HITS THE TOP PANEL BEFORE IT HITS THE LEFT EDGE, then the window controls and the appmenu is displayed on the top panel and the user can interact. --- While the Launcher is hidden, IF THE CURSOR HITS THE LEFT EDGE FIRST, the Ubuntu logo on top gracefully grows into a button of its own, while (at the same time) the Launcher fades and/or slides into view (very nice visual attractions can be achieved here). Once the Launcher is shown, the user can click anywhere outside, at which instant, the Launcher and the Ubuntu button fade out of view kind of in a reverse visual effect. (If anyone can make a mockup of this, I'd really appreciate it) I strongly suggest that Canonical and other decision makers consider a design of this sorts, and not move the Ubuntu button completely out
Re: [Ayatana] Hybrid (panel/launcher) top left corner button
With all due respect, that won't be an issue anymore, since the Ubuntu button will now be hiding with the launcher. On Aug 26, 2011 6:59 PM, André Oliva gandreol...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. But really, all the people new to Ubuntu 11.04 that I have seen tries to reveal the launcher pointing to the ubuntu button, rather than trying to push the left side, even if the animation of the launcher suggests that. For us, regular users of Ubuntu, it's obvious. For new users, we can not suppose it's obvious. And another think I don't understand about the current design is that there is enough space to put somewhere such an useful button on the screen. Why it has to be removed? The solution proposed originally by Sashin solves both the problem of usability detected in 11.04 and the issues I claim... 2011/8/26 Apoorva Sharma appi2...@gmail.com On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 7:27 PM, André Oliva gandreol...@gmail.com wrote: So, what do you think about this idea? I'm really concerned about how an user new to Ubuntu will react when he wants to invoke the launcher when a window is maximized with the current design. André. Although this I see your concern, I think that the sliding animation will make it quite obvious where the launcher went. In any case, user testing is needed to make a perfect decision. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] The new Orange-Ubuntu-Button on the Launcher
The usability testing seems to say that the users assume the home folder shortcut is what you use to open the dash. What about getting the file browsing functionality ready for oneiric and making that shortcut the dash shortcut? On Aug 15, 2011 12:46 PM, topdownjimmy topdownji...@gmail.com wrote: Does anybody know all the justifications behind this change, versus some other way of solving the Dash/Home Button isn't obvious problem (http://design.canonical.com/2011/04/unity-benchmark-usability-april-2011/ )? The bug report (http://pad.lv/764771) doesn't seem to have any discussion attached to it, and so far I've seen no response from Canonical in these threads. I just feel uncertain that all the alternatives have been explored here: What if the Home Button were orange? What if it were more curved with a stronger gradient to have a more button-like appearance? What if it glowed when the mouse cursor hovered over it? What if its importance were more strongly emphasized in the installation slideshow? What if the system started with the mouse cursor hovering over the Home Button, just as Mac OS X starts with the mouse cursor hovering their Apple button? What about this other mockup?: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/unity-shell/+spec/better-ubuntu-button-bfb And these are just a few ideas... I share the concern with some people that moving the Home Button into the launcher de-emphasizes its centrality to the Unity Shell, and it seems to me that some more subtle changes might accomplish the same thing without breaking the expectations of people who have already gotten used to Natty. On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 3:56 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: I believe it was moved from the top to make applications integrate more gracefully with the top bar. Instead of the window controls not being at the edge of the screen as they would have been if the application was maximized but wasn't because of BUB, they now are, which lets it integrate much less awkwardly and bring a more consistent user experience. I think this was a wise design choice but I agree on that the new BUB should be better distinguished from other launchers. Now when it has the same squared shape it's impossible to think that it's nothing less than an ordinary installed application - instead of the main way of interacting with the OS to find files, applications and all other stuff lenses can provide. The Canonical designers SHOULD be able to improve this. I can't help but feel that the designers just make up things as they go instead of doing proper usability research before making a decision. GNOME Shell was a much more thought out product when it was released - a complete experience, while Unity has had incredibly many changes from the original design. The whole UX with Unity has been awkward for me to say the least. I'm happy they are bringing so many new changes in the upcoming iteration and hope that I'll be able to use it as my primary DE in the future :) (though it seems that the Elementary Project's Pantheon is a tough candidate) 2011/8/15 Alberto Mardegan alberto.marde...@canonical.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 08/12/2011 09:20 PM, M. Adnan Quaium wrote: 1. May be we can introduce an animated spinning Ubuntu-logo (like a wheel) which spins all the time to attract the user and stops spinning at mouse hovering. Or a 3D rotating Ubuntu-button can be introduced. 2. The button may have a glowing effect all the time. As the other Launcher buttons does not have a glowing effect, it surely can catch the attention of a user. 3. Or the Ubuntu-button can be much bigger than the rest of the buttons (well ... then it would be a Windows idea). 4. May be a separator can be put in between the Ubuntu buttons and the rest of the buttons. These suggestions, as the other ones being proposed in this thread, are all of good value and worth considering. I personally think that a quick mention of the button existence during the installation/upgrade phase and some glowing or pop-up during the first couple of seconds of a user session should be enough. But then again, I wonder why the button moved to the launcher. If we add some hints to notify the user of the button existence, then why not put it back to the top panel, where it's more easily reachable? :-) Ciao, Alberto -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk5IxZQACgkQVLQegMXeCFJU7wCdEsrwILKizGRxxJHzypzDmFIi L9YAn0zLNdzZENHtv+Wt68H+yER5NAR6 =idBI -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___
Re: [Ayatana] FW: Middle Click Feature For Indicators
I understood it as standardizing the behavior of the indicators. Instead of having different menus appear for right click and left click, there is one for both, and a middle click shortcut. On Aug 7, 2011 11:45 AM, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: So is right-click no more for Indicators? I seem to remember this big effort to get rid of right-click functionality for Indicators. But now a middle-click functionality is being added? This strikes me as rather bizarre. Is there a wiki that explains the design ideas behind this? From: t...@ubuntu.com To: joerlend.schins...@gmail.com Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2011 14:10:06 -0500 CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Middle Click Feature For Indicators On Fri, 2011-08-05 at 20:15 +0200, Jo-Erlend Schinstad wrote: Those are very interesting ideas/proposals. I was actually a little worried when I read about this, but as long as its just a shortcut to the most frequently used menu item provided by an indicator, I think it's ok. However... How do we guarantee that this will be consistent between indicators? If it's only available for system indicators, then I think that creates an inconsistency itself. But if it's also available to appindicators, then how will the middle click action be governed? It is available for application indicators, and it's governed rather simply. The action has to be a visible menu item that is in the menu. If you hide it, it doesn't work. If you remove it, it doesn't work. This way the middle click always remains a power user feature, but not a hidden feature. And machines without middle click will never loose functionality. As far as which item is chosen, I'm happy to let application authors play with that. They know their applications better than I believe we ever will. In the end, I expect that OMG Ubuntu readers will know what every middle click will do and we'll never be able to do a usability study on it because no normal user will ever find it :-) --Ted ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Oneiric Dark Toolbar
___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Gnome 3 wastes Vertical Space in 11.10 Oneiric Dark Toolbar
://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.netUnsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Oneiric Dark Toolbars vs. Apple Ipad Toolbars (Bad design vs. Good design)
Respectfully, I don't think that is good design. The gradient on the toolbar make it seem very heavy. It draws your eye to a section of the UI that A. isn't content, and B. doesn't do very much. And a flat toolbar would seem disconnected and cobbled on as an add on, rather than a cohesive part of the interface. Looking aside the colors, visual separation between the toolbar (which is really more a titlebar) and the top panel makes sense in this case, since the purpose of the top panel is purely informative; there is no interactivity with its contents. The problem lies in that the Unity Panel and the iOS information bar serve entirely different purposes. The Unity panel is interactive, and hosts many application related functions (due to the menu bar). Drawing the user into the panel visually help to reinforce the idea that it isn't separate, and should be clicked on. Then again, that particular tool bar is wasting an awful lot of vertical space, and on a device that really needs all the pixels it can get it's hands on. I would have cut the vertical size of the toolbar in half, at least, and relocated it's functions to the bottom of the smaller pane on the left, or replaced them with gestures in this case. iOS seems to make decent use of the Pull-down-to-refresh gesture, which eliminates one button, New Folders could be created with an empty placeholder at the bottom (a la gnome shell and workspaces) and settings could either be taken care of in a global settings app, or also handled via a gesture (it should be used rarely, and thus not warrant a dedicated button on screen). As for Edit, I can't really place it anywhere, because the functionality isn't immediately clear to me, which is a UI design issue itself. Not to mention why there are two of them. In any case, using a purely touch based UI is not a good model for developing one that would work on any device, and that is where iOS design is utterly unsuitable for comparison to Unity anyway. On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 17:35, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: Please see the following picture of the Apple Ipad for an example of lightened black toolbars that are not the same darkness as the OS's top panel and represent a good design: http://i.imgur.com/cfWSy.jpg Note that although the toolbar is technically black it is a faded/lightened black. That is, it is NOT the same color/shade as the Top-Panel! This is GOOD design. This is what I describe and have been arguing for in my previous e-mails regarding this topic. There are potent reasons why the Iphone Ipad are such strong sellers. Interface design choices like this are part of the reason why these devices are such strong sellers and well liked. Application toolbars should NOT be a dark color that shroud the tools in darkness. And they should NOT be the same color/shade as the Top-Panel that represents the OS. Apple's design is very strong. A dark top-panel and a middle-colored toolbar that transitions to the white-content. Why can't Oneiric Ocelot adopt this design pattern? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Place Shut Down as the last entry in the Sessions-Menu for Oneiric and beyond
I don't think launcher was the right word. It will be placed in the Dash, right? That way, if t a user wants the shortcut in their launcher, they can add one (like any other application), or they can leave it as a Dash-only item. On Jul 6, 2011 10:47 AM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: On 6 July 2011 13:04, Omer Akram om26er.l...@gmail.com wrote: [snip] Good news, in Oneiric system settings will be removed from the SessionMenu and an icon for it will be placed in the launcher by default, It'll probably happen around alpha-3 I guess :-) That is not good news at all. The launcher is being abused. It should not have a list of mounted devices and it should not have an icon for system settings. Mounted devices should have an indicator and system settings should have an icon in the dash. That is to say, it should have its own lense. With regard to mounted devices, I feel strongly that they should have their own indicator for these reasons: * Users don't understand why it's important to unmount them before unplugging them, but they will do so by mistake and discover that it does no harm. By using an indicator, we can use a green icon when the user unmounts them correctly and a red one when they don't, leading them onto the right path. Poeople do want to do the right thing. * Placing mounted devices in the launcher makes the launcher cluttered and people will not be bothered to search for them in order to unmount, for instance when they're in a hurry or is under stress. * The launcher should be for apps. Trash, desktop and window switching are valid exceptions, but it must not become a slippery slope. The launcher is only effective when it only does what the user does often. If it becomes filled with other stuff, then it will become less inviting. I feel that configurations should be placed in a lense with an icon in the dash for these reasons: * Configuring and using are different things. So far we've only had Preferences and Administration, but this has to change. We should reach for a way to configure all applications from the same place. You will not access Firefox' settings from Firefox' menus, but from TCS (The Configuration Screen). The settings will be available from GSettings and therefore it is no longer necessary for each application to provide their own, non-uniform, config dialogs. They will still be available, of course, but users of Ubuntu will not have to search for them. They will just press the Ubuntu button, tap or click Configure and select the application they want to configure. Unity should provide a unified way of accessing all common features of all applications. There is no unity without unification. This is quite obviously the right way to do this, so we should prepare for it as soon as possible, even though some applications won't be configurable that way -- yet. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
Then, wouldn't the menu open after you finish dragging the window around? And what about people that click once on the menu, then drag down to the item they want, then release the mouse button? On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 14:30, Matthew Bassett li...@mbassett.net wrote: On 15/06/11 21:28, Matthew Bassett wrote: [deletia] 1) to not activate menu drop downs until mouse-up (so you can grab the the menu bar/title bar without issue and drag the menu around), or That should have been drag the WINDOW around... ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] proposal: alt+num navigation in superviews
In this case, Super+number for the launcher eould be disabled, and would be activated per window instead. I'll try to make a mockups, but it'll be a little later today. On Jun 4, 2011 7:07 AM, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 2:51 AM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: What about adding numbers a la the launcher item as super is continually held down? That way, it's easy to tell which number keys activate which window. The problem here is that with super+num there's one number per app, not per window. You can bring all windows of the selected application to the foreground but you can't focus one particular. This works OK with terminal windows for example but not with full screen office docs. On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:06 AM, huffyli...@gmail.com wrote: But if you are in the spread view, why would you want to launch something from the unity bar? The confusing thing (to me) is that Win+Num does still work in that view. It's not even clear to me why the unity bar pops out in spread view. What if you want to check if a particular application is open via spread view, if it's not you'd want to quickly launch it via the launcher. If the launcher is currently auto-hidden having it pop out is both a useful feature (spread view is used for getting a quick overview over windows on the current desktop and switch to them, the launcher extends this to windows on other workspaces) and it's consistent with its normal behavior. All things considered alt+num still looks like the cleanest solution. The confusion aspect is alleviated by it being hidden by default, i.e. it would be a power user/keyboard junkie feature. As long as people don't accidentally hold down the alt key it would work. I'd tend towards having it as a disabled per default option. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] proposal: alt+num navigation in superviews
What about adding numbers a la the launcher item as super is continually held down? That way, it's easy to tell which number keys activate which window. On Jun 3, 2011 4:37 PM, Jo-Erlend Schinstad joerlend.schins...@gmail.com wrote: ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Focus follows pointer (Was: Re: Understanding the menu problem.)
I know this has been discussed, but isn't the solution to this problem having the global menu match application classes rather than window classes? It doesn't completely eliminate the FFP issue, but it does help when working with modal dialogs and multi-window apps like Gimp, FFP or otherwise. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 13:28, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: Nice, not so obvious aspects of FFP are: - It eliminates the click-through question (does a click on a widget of an unfocused window just focus the window, or also count as click on the widget?) This could be solved, see above. - It's consistent with how mouse wheel events are handled. But it's inconsistent with the usual behavior of focus and raise always happening together. I do use immediate auto raise. It allows me to very quickly switch between overlapping windows with a rough gesture. It's especially handy with GIMP, where I often use an image window that overlaps much of palettes to both sides of the screen. So I get a large working area but also quick access to tools. More convenient than toggling palettes with Tab or toggling full-screen mode in phases where I need to access palettes often. GIMP is an awful example :P Its interface is gimped, the WM isn't the right place to right it. Do you have any other example where you'd miss auto rise specifically? I do have issues with dialogs and small windows falling back behind larger ones sometimes, where I have to use Alt-Tabbing. An optimized window placement scheme and/or automatically presenting a window that is hidden behind another one as tab of that window could solve that. Then you will love this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/os-xgnome-3-style-dialog-sheets-coming-to-ubuntu-11-10/ Anyway, would you not agree that autorise is not a good default setting and would cause a lot of frustration with new users? Therefore putting it back and first trying to get Unity right in the default settings got to be priority, FFP with auto raise are the optimal settings if you get someone else to try to demonstrate something on your machine ;) I got a large screen with overlapping windows. When I move the mouse across the display from one side to the other (for example I just want to access the launcher) I'd get a lot of unwanted window switching. I don't see how that would work out for me. (...) if you really care about speed and efficiency best thing you could do is throw out your mouse and learn the keyboard controls. You can fool yourself regarding the efficiency of keyboard shortcuts easily. You may have to think, recall shortcuts, which throws off your sense of time. So it depends on training effects and what the alternative means of interaction is, exactly. If we are going there (the speed argument) we have power users in mind. I don't think they'll have troubles remembering keyboard shortcuts they use every day. For ordinary people, yes, that's why Unity should work great with just the mouse (It doesn't yet, for example the spread view, super+w, isn't exposed at all). Thanks for you input as well! -ed ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] A realistic vision of the next iteration of Unity
One a bug in launchpad is marked as affecting a project, it can't be removed. Marking it invalid would be the best thing to do. On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 14:32, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: Ok this must have been a bug with Launchpad since I moved the project but now somehow it has become duplicate entries. Now I can't remove the duplicate entries and projects which they affect. Any idea how to fix this? 2011/5/31 Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:04 PM, John Lea john@canonical.com wrote: On 29/05/11 18:41, Niklas Rosenqvist wrote: Ok, should I post these in ayatana-design or should I be more specific? When deciding where to file Unity bugs: 1) If the bug is related to user facing functionality, or the change requested impacts the user interface, the bug should be filed under 'ayatana-design'. 2) If the bug is related to a crash (or other technical issue) and the resolution requested does not change the user interface, the bug should be filed under 'Unity'. If a bug legitimately falls under both categories then file the bug against both 'ayatana-design' and 'unity' (using the 'also affects project' link). However such bugs have to be agreed both by design and development so they might take slightly longer to be triaged. Thanks! But now he added aytana instead of replacing unity. Can unity be removed? Or should it be set to invalid? Thanks for reporting bugs ;-) cheers, John ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Dash Idea – Easy Lens Switcher
What about integrating the Applications and Files Lenses into the Main dash, and using separate icons for User-installed Lenses? There was a good point brought up about why the main dash *shouldn't* be used for all lenses (searching for private files in the Dash and having a web search lens relay those file names to a search provider, I believe), so those should be separate. On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 08:47, Martín Casco martinca...@gmail.com wrote: El jue, 26-05-2011 a las 16:26 +0200, Ed Lin escribió: Ddid you get any opposing feedback? Yes, more easy for new users, if my memory doesn't fail. I remember that I propose unified Dash access on BFB, or use this for another kind of information, like show as *system information or user information. *And, if I remember well, Mark said that was interesting. [OT]I've been looking for that mail, it was my first Ayatana mail [image: :)], look for: *Re: [Ayatana] Option to move launcher to the right*, mail date: *05/12/2010* [/OT] It just makes absolutely no sense to me other than to waste space and confuse users. +1 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Alt Tab User Experience
A possible approach could be that Alt+Tab cycles through the launchers for open applications on the bar itself (therefore not opening it's own switcher or having to contend with over-magnified icons) , activating Expo for those that have more than one window open. I really like this idea. There are a few problems inherent in Exposé, but those could be easily remedied. The biggest one seems to be that it's difficult to distinguish between similar looking windows, which I can understand. Displaying the window title superimposed over the window preview would solve this, and should already be available. On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 09:44, ello tenniswithshov...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 20:02 -0700, Dylan McCall wrote: On this subject, I have been suggesting Alt+F1 as an alternative to Alt Tab for some people, and they've been pretty happy with it. Perhaps there are some ways that approach could be strengthened. A possible approach could be that Alt+Tab cycles through the launchers for open applications on the bar itself (therefore not opening it's own switcher or having to contend with over-magnified icons) , activating Expo for those that have more than one window open. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Re: Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
Why can't we let the top panel stay and hold the indicators? 1. Panels/notification bars are used in *every* major OS (Windows's is odd at the bottom), from desktops like Ubuntu and OS X to mobile platforms like Android and iOS. It's a very familiar paradigm that people are comfortable working with. 2. The panel can hold lots of functionality (Title bar, notifications, BFB, Menu) at a low cost to screen real-estate (~24px, I think) 3. Removing it requires integrating the indicators with the launcher, which is not what either of them were designed for. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 14:24, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: A very rough sketch based on your image and parts scraped from google images... http://i.imgur.com/WMLYk.png On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:03 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/5/24 Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com I hope I cleared that up as above. I probably should do a mockup myself (if have time...) I would very much like to see that, I'm having some trouble visualizing your idea and this would help me greatly! 2011/5/24 Henrik Peytz henrik.pe...@gmail.com 2011/5/24 Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com I hope I cleared that up as above. I probably should do a mockup myself (if have time...) If you guys don't mind, would you make a full desktop-mockup of the ideas? It's always nice to see how people see it fit into the greater whole. One thing is how the indicators will look, another is how the desktop will look without the current indicator being where it is now; perhaps it'll open up new possibilities, etc. ^^ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Re: Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
The point I'm trying to make is that the current panel isn't broken, and moving things like that is just change for the sake of change. When you're trying to build a set and solid identity, that;s not a good thing. What really makes the bottom edge so ill-suited to placing interface elements? Is it really something that sets it apart from the top edge, or app developers wish not to place UI elements there? Even if we did open up the top edge as opposed to the bottom edge, where is the guarantee that app developers would take advantage of that and actually use it? Web browsers, for example, seem to be following a tabs on top approach to design. This issue with this design is that unless the user has focus issues, switching tabs should not be the most important controls. And what exactly happens to the title bar if we put the panel on the bottom? Does it move to the bottom? That's quite a large change for very little additional functionality. Alternatively, we can leave the title bar on top, but then that defeats the point behind moving the panel to the bottom in the first place. Even if we remove the panel, that last point holds true. We aren't opening up the top screen edge, only putting something else there. We may as well leave the panel there, as in it's current form it takes no additional space, and *does* provide functionality, unlike a title bar only or a tab bar. I haven't seen honeycomb yet. Some guy was hogging the Xoom at the Sprint store I visited on Sunday. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 15:29, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Why can't we let the top panel stay and hold the indicators? 1. Panels/notification bars are used in *every* major OS (Windows's is odd at the bottom), from desktops like Ubuntu and OS X to mobile platforms like Android and iOS. It's a very familiar paradigm that people are comfortable working with. 2. The panel can hold lots of functionality (Title bar, notifications, BFB, Menu) at a low cost to screen real-estate (~24px, I think) 3. Removing it requires integrating the indicators with the launcher, which is not what either of them were designed for. 1.) Why odd? it makes much more sense to put less frequently *clicked* elements to the bottom than to the top! (btw, have you seen honeycomb?) Familiarity isn't a good argument because a panel on a screen edge with a clock and some familiar icons is as familiar on the side as a panel at the top or bottom. This isn't a question of paradigms, just design. Having said that, I really wouldn't mind a Unity bottom panel that consists of the launcher items and the classic indicators. In fact I'd most likely prefer it to any other alternative I've heard so far, including the two mock-ups of my own or to what's currently available. Probably not a too popular opinion as everyone would point at it and say Windows 7 clone. This brings us to: 2. It's not about the 24 px, it's about screen edges. Unity takes up two whole screen edges, it only leaves the remaining two to app developers. The right side is usually already occupied by a scroll bar and the lower edge isn't very attractive for putting controls there apart from image viewers and video players. The top screen edge is the most valuable space and it should therefore house the most important controls. Sorry Unity/Ubuntu, that means NOT you ;) 3.) So? GNOME wasn't designed for a global menu, our western fonts weren't designed for vertical interfaces... ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Re: Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
Maximized windows need no titlebar across the full screen edge. See Photoshop, Office, Firefox, Chrome (on Windows). But the difference is that all of those applications have title bars. The only difference is that they have stuff in them. Firefox and Chrome have tabs there. Office has icons, and Photoshop has a menu. Wait a minute, they're putting a menu in the titlebar. I feel like I've seen that somewhere before... Getting rid of the title bar on maximised windows means that applications have to implement their own window management, like Chrome without native title bars in Ubuntu. What happens if an an application doesn't do this? The window is maximised, and the user has no way to restore it, as the window controls provided by the WM are gone (with the title bar), and it hasn't implemented it's own version. This means that this application simply doesn't work in Ubuntu. That's a huge limiting factor. Instead of removing the title bar, give an application more control over what gets put in the menu bar. instead of having only textual menus, allow icons (in the Office example) or tabs (for the browsers) as well. Then, allow these elements to be integrated into Unity's existing Top Panel and Global menu. Then make sure that whatever is shown in the menu, it's shown all the time, without waiting for a hover event. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 17:41, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 1:15 AM, ello tenniswithshov...@gmail.com wrote: But don't all designers take into account the title bar of the window? Don't all the features you talk about appear under it? Since, when maximised, the panel is the title bar, I don't see how this is a concern. Have I missed something? Yes, it's not flexible. It can only do text menus. Menus which never are that fast to begin with because at the very least require two clicks (or my drag click). It can't do toolbar icons or tabs nor can it handle two apps tiled side by side. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro *Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html* Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Message Indicator Behavior
I don't see the limit as being a huge problem. I personally rarely have more than 3 open at once. Of course, one user's habits shouldn't be used as the judgement for an entire UI. Would it bbe possible to allow for a more item list extra chats in? The only display the last used/updated windows there? On May 19, 2011 3:11 PM, Ted Gould t...@ubuntu.com wrote: ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
The reasoning for the global menu bar isn't just about saving screen space. It's also about reduction of UI chrome to provide an interface that looks cleaner and simpler. Mouse travel distance *is* irrelevant since mouse acceleration allows for great travel distances from short, twitchy movements. It is also easy to hit the menu, as it's on a screen edge and easy to hit vertically. I work with a *trackpad* on a very large monitor, and of all if the pointing issues I have, the only serious one is when I need to aim in two dimensions. This brings to the real flaw with the global menu. As it's hidden by default, users don't know what to aim at, thus forcing them to stop and re-aim at the menu they want to use. This is the real speed killer with the current global menu implementation. A better solution would be to have the global menu visible by default. In the current implementation, there is a way to disable the global menu. This should be easier to configure for users that don't want the global menu. Also, I think adding an option to keep the current behavior would be good, as I'm sure some people like the lack of visual clutter it provides. On May 18, 2011 2:54 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry people for accidentally sending duplicates, here is the real version: 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de i could also imagine a window grip button for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by menus for moving the window. Without testing I just get the feeling that this would be ineffective since I know that I much more often move a window than go to it's menu. A small grip will probably be annoying to always find with your cursor. The whole title bar provides a much easier and faster way of rearranging windows. I made some sketching on this and came up with a mockup which you can find here: http://i.imgur.com/f8q2c.png The three top images is describing the solution we've talked about and the fourth image is an extension of the implementation we've discussed. This implementation is possible today thanks to a plugin, but it would be sweet to have it natively. 2011/5/18 Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de i could also imagine a window grip button for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by menus for moving the window. Without testing I just get the feeling that this would be ineffective since I know that I much more often move a window than go to it's menu. A small grip will probably be annoying to always find with your cursor. The whole title bar provides a much easier and faster way of rearranging windows. I made some sketching on this and came up with a mockup which you can find here: http://i.imgur.com/f8q2c.png The three top images is describing the solution we've talked about and the fourth image is an extension of the implementation we've discussed. This implementation is possible today thanks to a plugin, but it would be sweet to have it natively. 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de Am Mittwoch, den 18.05.2011, 15:15 +0200 schrieb Niklas Rosenqvist: Or to avoid movement, switch between titles and menus in the titlebars. I like that idea: Consistent (menu/title toggle as for maximized window now, than simply for all windows) and contextual (it's clear where every menu belongs to). Additionally to the before mentioned idea of a menu/title toggle button next to the window controls, i could also imagine a window grip button for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by menus for moving the window. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
Developers can choose to implement the Unity API for adding things to their launcher item, such as progress bars and quicklists. However, the global menu is done via gtk and dbus, and requires no effort on the part of the developer, provided the developer has implemented a standard gtk menu system. On May 19, 2011 2:37 AM, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but this still would leave it up to the developers to make their programs Unity compatible and isn't that too much to ask from them? Can't a simpler implementation be found which doesn't need any changes in the applications so that people doesn't need to make their programs Ubuntu compatible and not just Debian? 2011/5/19 Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com The reasoning for the global menu bar isn't just about saving screen space. It's also about reduction of UI chrome to provide an interface that looks cleaner and simpler. Mouse travel distance *is* irrelevant since mouse acceleration allows for great travel distances from short, twitchy movements. It is also easy to hit the menu, as it's on a screen edge and easy to hit vertically. I work with a *trackpad* on a very large monitor, and of all if the pointing issues I have, the only serious one is when I need to aim in two dimensions. This brings to the real flaw with the global menu. As it's hidden by default, users don't know what to aim at, thus forcing them to stop and re-aim at the menu they want to use. This is the real speed killer with the current global menu implementation. A better solution would be to have the global menu visible by default. In the current implementation, there is a way to disable the global menu. This should be easier to configure for users that don't want the global menu. Also, I think adding an option to keep the current behavior would be good, as I'm sure some people like the lack of visual clutter it provides. On May 18, 2011 2:54 PM, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry people for accidentally sending duplicates, here is the real version: 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de i could also imagine a window grip button for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by menus for moving the window. Without testing I just get the feeling that this would be ineffective since I know that I much more often move a window than go to it's menu. A small grip will probably be annoying to always find with your cursor. The whole title bar provides a much easier and faster way of rearranging windows. I made some sketching on this and came up with a mockup which you can find here: http://i.imgur.com/f8q2c.png The three top images is describing the solution we've talked about and the fourth image is an extension of the implementation we've discussed. This implementation is possible today thanks to a plugin, but it would be sweet to have it natively. 2011/5/18 Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de i could also imagine a window grip button for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by menus for moving the window. Without testing I just get the feeling that this would be ineffective since I know that I much more often move a window than go to it's menu. A small grip will probably be annoying to always find with your cursor. The whole title bar provides a much easier and faster way of rearranging windows. I made some sketching on this and came up with a mockup which you can find here: http://i.imgur.com/f8q2c.png The three top images is describing the solution we've talked about and the fourth image is an extension of the implementation we've discussed. This implementation is possible today thanks to a plugin, but it would be sweet to have it natively. 2011/5/18 Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de Am Mittwoch, den 18.05.2011, 15:15 +0200 schrieb Niklas Rosenqvist: Or to avoid movement, switch between titles and menus in the titlebars. I like that idea: Consistent (menu/title toggle as for maximized window now, than simply for all windows) and contextual (it's clear where every menu belongs to). Additionally to the before mentioned idea of a menu/title toggle button next to the window controls, i could also imagine a window grip button for moving the window when the whole title bar is occupied by menus for moving the window. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] dialog sheet suggestions
I think the biggest problem with being able to drag sheets is that, for me, sheets should be an all out or nothing type of implementation. If a new user were allowed to drag a model sheet at all, then they would be confused if they were unable to drag the sheet anywhere on the screen. In my experience, you really don't need to have information from the parent window critical to the completion of the sheet. If you do, then consider making the dialog translucent instead. On May 17, 2011 6:33 PM, Felix Lawrence felix.lawre...@student.usyd.edu.au wrote: I note that Ubuntu is adopting dialog sheets for Oneiric - open, save and print dialogs will no longer appear as a separate window, but will be 'stuck' to their parent window: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/05/os-xgnome-3-style-dialog-sheets-coming-to-ubuntu-11-10/ I have two suggestions for the implementation of design sheets, to make it better than Apple's. Apple's implementation of sheets has one disadvantage over regular modal dialogs: you can't see or select what's directly under the sheet. Traditional modal dialogs can be moved to provide access, but Apple's sheets are stuck to the window and can't be moved. Firstly, Ubuntu's dialog sheets should be draggable inside their parent window. The sheet could even be dragged to be mostly outside the parent window, with only a small region of overlap. The sheet would not be able to be dragged completely outside the parent window - it must at least partially overlap its parent at all times. This allows the user to see/select any text in the parent window, while the sheet is still 'stuck' to the parent window. Secondly (and less feasibly), sheets should be attached to tabs where possible, as opposed to windows. So if you're in gedit with lots of documents open and select Save As... in one, the sheet appears, locks up that tab, but you can change to other tabs and work in those while the dialog is open in another. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Launcher and Panel Overlap
Two points: 1. Super+E still exists in the Workspace switcher in Unity, or Super+S. 2. Zooming out to move a window decreases productivity. For people that know about it, they have to wait for the desktop to zoom out first (After requiring an extra click or key-press), then can move their windows around. New users would be completely lost as to how to use it, and would likely not use it at all. It might be okay for power users, but for the majority of Ubuntu users, who look to Ubuntu to be easy to use without having to read a manual first. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 12:53, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 15:34, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: What happens if you have a narrow window (GIMP, Empathy) stuck behind the icons on the right? I think that's why Wingpanel's behavior was changed. i've been thinking about that point... i find it ridiculous. the DE should be designed in a way, so that you can move a window without the need to grab it by it's chrome. At some point SUPER+E was useful in that respect, as it showed you the exposé of all workspaces, and allowed you to move the previews of windows. There should be a scaled window preview mode, in which you can touch, grab, move and close windows on your workspace(s). -- Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Launcher and Panel Overlap
It went from a small panel residing on the upper right of the screen only, to a more traditional full-width panel like Unity's. I'm not sure if they have edge resistance yet, as they never did while I was using it. It is a possibility, and a good idea too. On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 13:17, frederik.nn...@gmail.com frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 21:06, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Two points: 1. Super+E still exists in the Workspace switcher in Unity, or Super+S. 2. Zooming out to move a window decreases productivity. For people that know about it, they have to wait for the desktop to zoom out first (After requiring an extra click or key-press), then can move their windows around. New users would be completely lost as to how to use it, and would likely not use it at all. It might be okay for power users, but for the majority of Ubuntu users, who look to Ubuntu to be easy to use without having to read a manual first. makes sense, yes. perhaps i'm thinking too far with my Window Control mode. otoh, would you mind pointing out the difference in behaviour you observed in wingpanel lately? does it have edge resistance for windows that live within wingpanel's horizontal dimensions? -- Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ideas for Unity based on the recent Canonical Design blog post
Welcome to the list! On Apr 22, 2011 4:18 PM, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm new to this list so please let me know if I'm out of turn somehow, but I have a few ideas for future incarnations of Unity. I was reading the Canonical Design blog post at [1], and two particular problems caught my eye: - First, many users seemed to have difficulty finding settings. Currently these are accessed through the Applications lens or through the top-right shutdown menu. Neither of these are particularly intuitive, since users don't consider settings dialogues to be applications (even though they *technically* are). The solution that makes the most sense to me is to add a third lens to the default Applications and Files lenses, a System Settings lens. The icon can be the default magnifying glass with a stylized gear in the middle. I'm not sure the best way of implementing it, but it ought to be fairly simple to have it search only those .desktop files which would appear in the System-Preferences or System-Admin menus in previous incarnations. Another question is whether we leave those .desktop files in the Applications lens or take them out: I'm not sure which would be best. The obvious keyboard shortcut is Super-S, which conflicts with the workspace launcher, that would also have to be dealt with somehow. Still, details aside this seems like an intuitive and obvious solution to the problem. - I feel like this solution is on the right track, but it should be developed better. Adding a new lens at the bottom wouldn't solve all of the problems people had with the current system. This is probably one of the areas where Unity is significantly different from the competition. Maybe the best thing to do would be to simply add System Settings to the launcher. If we kept the current system in place, we would keep the supposed benefits of having it that way, and adding the launcher would help people discover them. The second idea I had was for the bfb and launcher, since there are several usability problems the study revealed with it: - mousing over the bfb to reveal the launcher is unintuitive - clicking the bfb to reveal the dash is unintuitive - people mistook the nautilus launcher as something more, since it has a 'home' logo and is the first launcher by default. I think all of these problems can be solved by a single slightly different design. By default, I believe that the bfb should be just another launcher item with a mono ubuntu logo, fixed at the top like the trash is fixed at the bottom. The launcher bar should extend all the way to the top of the screen (where the bfb currently is), cutting the top panel short at the left side. I've done a rough mockup of what this might look like at [2]. When the launcher needs to be hidden, the animation should make it roll or fold up into the bfb, which shrinks and transforms into it's current state (part of the panel). This should make it obvious that mousing over the bfb reveals the launcher (via a similar roll-down animation). The fact that the bfb is just another launcher item when the launcher is revealed should make the dash more obviously clickable/discoverable. Changing the bfb like this will also help avoid confusion, since the nautilus launcher will no longer be the top, and 'primary' icon by default. I'm fairly confident that this solution solves the mentioned problems, but it probably has issues of its own. All comments are welcome. - This is an interesting. I suggested something like this a while back, but the Dec said he felt like that much motion was too much. The button idea is good, though. Just my two cents, Evan [1] http://design.canonical.com/2011/04/unity-benchmark-usability-april-2011/ [2] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/171647/Unity_New_BFB.png ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ideas for Unity based on the recent Canonical Design blog post
Should have been Dev, sorry. It's proven that system settings are what people find unintutive. My solution keeps your preferred method without adding clutter, and solves the issue that people were having. Sent from my Android device. Please excuse my brevity. On Apr 22, 2011 6:05 PM, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Welcome to the list! On Apr 22, 2011 4:18 PM, Evan Huus eapa...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I'm new to this list so please let me know if I'm out of turn somehow, but I have a few ideas for future incarnations of Unity. I was reading the Canonical Design blog post at [1], and two particular problems caught my eye: - First, many users seemed to have difficulty finding settings. Currently these are accessed through the Applications lens or through the top-right shutdown menu. Neither of these are particularly intuitive, since users don't consider settings dialogues to be applications (even though they *technically* are). The solution that makes the most sense to me is to add a third lens to the default Applications and Files lenses, a System Settings lens. The icon can be the default magnifying glass with a stylized gear in the middle. I'm not sure the best way of implementing it, but it ought to be fairly simple to have it search only those .desktop files which would appear in the System-Preferences or System-Admin menus in previous incarnations. Another question is whether we leave those .desktop files in the Applications lens or take them out: I'm not sure which would be best. The obvious keyboard shortcut is Super-S, which conflicts with the workspace launcher, that would also have to be dealt with somehow. Still, details aside this seems like an intuitive and obvious solution to the problem. - I feel like this solution is on the right track, but it should be developed better. Adding a new lens at the bottom wouldn't solve all of the problems people had with the current system. Which problems wouldn't it solve? The big one I found from reading the blog was that people were hesitant to search for settings in the Applications launcher. I can't imagine them having this problem in a Settings launcher. I feel like I'm missing something obvious here... This is probably one of the areas where Unity is significantly different from the competition. Maybe the best thing to do would be to simply add System Settings to the launcher. If we kept the current system in place, we would keep the supposed benefits of having it that way, and adding the launcher would help people discover them. To be honest, I don't find the System Settings window useful. It lists almost fifty different subcategories in only a couple of major groups, and while the search tool is handy, it's not smart: searching for wallpaper or background lists no results because the Appearance dialogue doesn't use those words in its name. I would much rather have Settings as a lens rather than a simple launcher to take advantage of Unity's smart searching. Admittedly, searching the dash for those keywords doesn't return the Appearance window right now either, but it would be easy to add many more task-specific launchers to a Settings lens (things like 'wallpaper' which links to Appearance, or 'battery settings' which links to Power Management). Adding all of these right now would clutter the System Settings window beyond any semblance of usability, but with Unity's smart searching and a separate Settings lens I think this would be both discoverable and efficient. The second idea I had was for the bfb and launcher, since there are several usability problems the study revealed with it: - mousing over the bfb to reveal the launcher is unintuitive - clicking the bfb to reveal the dash is unintuitive - people mistook the nautilus launcher as something more, since it has a 'home' logo and is the first launcher by default. I think all of these problems can be solved by a single slightly different design. By default, I believe that the bfb should be just another launcher item with a mono ubuntu logo, fixed at the top like the trash is fixed at the bottom. The launcher bar should extend all the way to the top of the screen (where the bfb currently is), cutting the top panel short at the left side. I've done a rough mockup of what this might look like at [2]. When the launcher needs to be hidden, the animation should make it roll or fold up into the bfb, which shrinks and transforms into it's current state (part of the panel). This should make it obvious that mousing over the bfb reveals the launcher (via a similar roll-down animation). The fact that the bfb is just another launcher item when the launcher is revealed should make the dash more obviously clickable/discoverable. Changing the bfb like this will also help avoid confusion, since the nautilus launcher will no longer be the top
Re: [Ayatana] Persistent menu mockup
That looks great, and solves most of everyone's complaints with the current hidden global menu. I do have one concern: what happens to the window controls when the window is maximized? you could scoot the menu over a bit, but then, that might look odd for non-maximized windows. Other than that though, I'd love to see this, as it's a viable contender. On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 10:50, S. Christian Collins s.chriscoll...@gmail.com wrote: Hi folks, Many people have mentioned the problems with the inconsistency of the new panel (menu only visible on hover, etc.). Here is my proposed solution to this problem: - The menu of the active window is always displayed in the panel. - The title of the active application is displayed on the right side of the panel, just to the left of the system tray. - There is a clear division in the panel between the application title and the system tray to visually link the window's title with its menu. - The application's icon is displayed transparently beneath the window title for at-a-glance identification of the active window. This would make it easier to tell which window is currently active. - If the active window's menu is long enough to drift into the application title, the title would simply fade out at its leftmost edge (similar to its current behavior whereby the title fades at the rightmost edge when the menu appears). Have a look at my mockup and decide for yourself: -~Chris ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: [Bug 733349] Re: Natty: Unity launcher buttons should allow to minimize apps, not just launch/restore
It was my understanding that the launcher icons only represent apps, and since an app can't really be minimized (only windows of that app), they don't do it. It works with Gnome 2 because the list was a list of windows. It would be clicking on a Gnome 2 shortcut and having the windows of that app minimize. I might be wrong here though. On Apr 19, 2011 7:19 AM, Bazon bazonbl...@arcor.de wrote: Original Message Subject: [Bug 733349] Re: Natty: Unity launcher buttons should allow to minimize apps, not just launch/restore Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2011 07:45:08 - From: Michael 733...@bugs.launchpad.net Reply-To: Bug 733349 733...@bugs.launchpad.net I'm sure that if you ask on the Ayatana mailing list they will be happy to explain, and perhaps to discuss, the reasoning. OK, so here we go: Why isn't it possible any more to minimize windows when clicking a further time on the button which represents the application? That was possible with the Gnome Panel Window Switcher, it is possible in the XFCE taskbar, it is possible in Cairo-Dock, it is possible with the MS Windows taskbar and probably many more. So why break users expectations? You leave the experienced user in frustration while the inexperienced user will not be mocked by minimizing on an extra click he probably never makes. (Showing and hiding a window quick by clicking two times on the icon/switcher is a very common practice.) I believe it's generally not a good idea that clicking on an interactive element of your screen leads to NOTHING. Some users will wonder whether their system is responding slow, experienced users who are used to the minimize behaviour will miss it. (and you know, many of them are already frustrated enough losing Gnome 2 features.) So please reconsider allowing minimizing windows by clicking on the launcher. -- You received this bug notification because you are a direct subscriber of the bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/733349 Title: Natty: Unity launcher buttons should allow to minimize apps, not just launch/restore To unsubscribe from this bug, go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/733349/+subscribe ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Launcher and Panel Overlap
What happens if you have a narrow window (GIMP, Empathy) stuck behind the icons on the right? I think that's why Wingpanel's behavior was changed. On Apr 18, 2011 10:25 PM, Mehdi Fattahi mah@gmail.com wrote: I wonder why the launcher and the top panel overlap in unity. The logic behind removing panels and having a dock on the left is apparently saving vertical screen real-estate. The top panel is only partially used: a few icons on the far right and one single icon on the far left. Even with the global menu enabled not all the panel space is utilized. In the attached picture you can see that this could be implemented much better. I've done this using AWN (it's not a mock-up, it's my own ubuntu remaster called AriOS http://arioslinux.org). When you maximize a window the icons sit nicely on top of the window title bar. The launcher also shouldn't be expanded IMHO. the reason for this is that even if you have a maximized window you can still use the free space below the launcher to right-click on the desktop or extract or drag and drop files to the desktop. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Awesome critical review of Unity
to me. On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Toki Tahmid oxw...@gmail.com wrote: I think the masses has already the sense to find the titlebar in the window they're interacting in, so that doesn't count... On 16 April 2011 13:37, Christian Mackintosh christian.mackint...@gmail.com wrote: Greg, You are absolutely right IMHO. Nothing more to add, just lending my support! On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Greg K Nicholson g...@gkn.me.ukwrote: However, Greg, is the downside you are describing for the current layout with menu bar indiscriminately in title bar or the layout you're describing? The disadvantage I described was for the layout I described. Having the menu always in the panel makes it quicker to acquire and click, which is good, but it appears connected to the wrong window. In my view, having the menu appear to be connected to the right window is more important than speed. Put another way, the problem with the current layout is this: even though the menu is in a consistent place all the time, it doesn't *feel* consistent, and that's confusing. -- ☮♥☯ Greg K Nicholson http://gkn.me.uk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Awesome critical review of Unity
Some windows mare exceedingly small (Empathy) or have a very large number of menus (GIMP). Just because this is true for most windows doesn't mean we should leave them out. As for moving the window, it's difficult for a new user to know that, and it requires a few seconds before you can move the window, which could decrease productivity. Also, some user click and hold through the menus, and that would create confusion when a user tries to drag their mouse through the menus and the window moves instead. On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:31, Toki Tahmid oxw...@gmail.com wrote: @Mitja, you're misunderstanding, he recommends that menu appears besides title button not inside. @Ian, why can we not allow long mouse button press to drag windows on title bar real estate? Accessing menus or anything on the title bar would not require long presses, but simple clicks. So after one or two seconds, if the mouse hasn't moved to menu options, the cursor can handle dragging the window. Menus do not usually number more than five or six, so on typical windows, widening them slightly would go a long way. I'm against fading in of menus then disappearing because it will escape the view of any inattentive user, Menus can be slightly faded in the title bar as I suggested before, while appearing fully coloured on mouse over. On 16 April 2011 20:07, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Integrate the menu in the titlebar and have it smoothly fade in when the mouse moves near to it. What if I want to move a window? On a multitouch device I can use three-finger drag or the MT Grab Handles, but on an old fashioned mouse and keyboard, I can't do it at all since the title bar is now not used for dragging the windows around. And it doesn't solve many of the problems associated with menus right now; What happens when menus are too long for windows is a big one. Problems like these are what the global menu are really trying to solve, not saving vertical screen space. We have the titlebar integration for that one. I think someone had suggested that when the application first starts, the window title is displayed for a few seconds before fading to the menu. If a window is idle for a while the title fades in. I think that may have been me (if not, I apologize), and it was slightly different. But this is a good solution to use with the global menu and the clutter issue. I initially suggested showing the menu for a second or two before switching to the title completely, but the one you described would work too. My only concern is that the title would occasionally be flashing in and out and alternating with the menus. This could be a distraction. I recommend simply displaying the title for a few seconds when the window opens, then fading to the menu and staying there permanently. On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 04:36, Christian Mackintosh christian.mackint...@gmail.com wrote: The points you described are valid, but with the increasing of screen sizes and the use of laptops, it's very annoying to move the mouse all the way over to the panel using the touchpad. On the other hand, users are already accustomed to have the menu bars in the window, so I don't see any valid reason to move the menu bar of all the applications to the panel. Having many small windows opened at a given moment will only increase the frustration - go to panel do something, again drag mouse to next window, drag it back up, do something, and it goes on and on... I could not agree more! In any case, I am in agreement with your solutions, and the only think I want to add is to change the complete hidden nature of the current menu bars. Users new to Unity would be totally clueless as to where the menu bar is, regardless of it's position on the panel or title bar. If the menus are slightly faded out and fades in on mouse over would look good on top of being functional. This is a real problem. I think fading in (like a reverse notification bubble, as some have suggested) would really help things, but even if the menus remain hidden I think users are far more likely to find them if they're integrated in the window titlebar rather than the panel, because if they're looking for a menu they're going to be mousing around the window they're in, not the top of the screen. Nonetheless, wherever the menus end up, currently we *are* just relying on users to accidentally stumble upon the menus, which seems utterly bizarre to me. I know this has been discussed on the mailing list before, but something really needs to be done about it. Personally I would take your suggestion, Toki. Integrate the menu in the titlebar and have it smoothly fade in when the mouse moves near to it. Failing that (I understand that it's difficult to implement fading on proximity) I think someone had suggested that when the application first starts, the window title is displayed for a few seconds before fading to the menu. If a window
Re: [Ayatana] Awesome critical review of Unity
You are missing my point, with Empathy focused, try closing the maximized window. There is the problem, the maximized window should have it's controls in it's titlebar like it normally does, like every other window does, but it doesn't. Bu the panel is dynamic. The title/menu contents of the panel only relate to the focused window. Both of my non-tech-savvy parents figured this out very quickly, and they like the behavior. They did have issue with the application name in the panel (Which is an understandable issue), but they were still very able to function. On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 09:16, Luke Benstead kaz...@gmail.com wrote: On 15 April 2011 16:08, nick rundy nru...@hotmail.com wrote: This is where the whole thing falls apart quite epically. Now visually the panel is the titlebar of the maximized window, but the contents of it are the focused window, which is likely not the same window. It's a complete WTF? moment and I still think it is ridiculous and confusing. I don't find it confusing at all. (Assuming I am fully understanding what you are describing), I did not have any problems acclimating to this design. I found it quite intuitive actually. The panel is now the titlebar of the maximized window, yet it has the title of the focused window... how is that not confusing? The worst part of it is that in this situation, the maximized window controls can't just be left where where they SHOULD be, where the user EXPECTS them to be, because the panel has the title and menu of the focused window and it'll be near impossible to tell which window would be closed or resized by clicking them. I do not understand you here. I had no problems whatsoever figuring out which window would be closed or resized. When maximized the controls are merged. clicking the buttons affects the maximized window. When not maximized, the controls are not present in the panel. The controls are exactly where I expect them to be. I found the global menus intuitive as well. The panel tells what the focused app is. move the mouse to the area and menus are present. You can also hit F10 to use the menus. I don't agree with your assessment. Or I don't understand what you are describing. I opened up Empathy. It works like everything else. What exactly is the problem? Window not maximmized = controls on the unmaxmized window. Menubar on the panel. Panel displays the apps name wehn mouse is not over the panel. You are missing my point, with Empathy focused, try closing the maximized window. There is the problem, the maximized window should have it's controls in it's titlebar like it normally does, like every other window does, but it doesn't. Luke. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
