Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Serious issues
On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 22:00, Josh Andler scis...@gmail.com wrote: Ink scape! +10 As an inkscape developer who is bug testing all the time, I have to say that as frustrating it is for me, I can't imagine how frustrating it is for users trying to be productive (not that bug testing isn't being productive). I also hit this issue in GIMP and a handful of other apps. Having Unity block me on a regular basis is something that makes me consider switching desktop environments... I honestly like Unity for the most part but this is definitely a big source of aggravation for me. If the behavior isn't going to be changed, please make the location of the dock configurable. For your use case the always-visible setting is probably the best. I've used it from the start. As clever as the hiding behavior may be, it still overlaps with applications. The move the screen to the right behavior might be an acceptable solution, too. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Music lens - Available for Purchase
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 12:20, a.gra...@gmail.com a.gra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On 11 October 2011 00:58, Thibaut Brandscheid randal...@web.de wrote: Houston, we have a problem I think there should be a section called Privacy in the Control Panel where the user can disable globally the possibility to send data trough Internet. Each lens/application should strictly check this setting before sending any data outside the user's PC. My 2 cents. This is also a feature beyond privacy. People with expensive data plans may want their Ubuntu to be offline until explicitly told otherwise. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Session management in the dash
On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 01:55, Thibaut Brandscheid randal...@web.de wrote: I agree with this statement because Ubuntu would look a little more professional with a Session lens. This way, it won't clutter up the dash any more than it has to. Then please auto detect and enable booting into other OS's from the Session Lens too. That would be seriously awesome. With current boot times it would really be a matter of clicking a button, waiting a few secs, and you're in Fedora. I imagine it's quite easy to implement too, just by changing the saved default of Grub. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Getting Started
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 11:09, Thorsten Wilms t...@freenet.de wrote: First boot and first login of a new user are meaningless. What if Eve installs a system for Adam to use? What if George creates another account to test something? What if Brunhilde installs her 3rd iteration of Ubuntu? What if Vladimir really does login for the first time on his first Ubuntu system, but will feel belittled by anything that looks like hand-holding and gets in the way of exploring everything himself immediately? I think we can ignore feelings of belittlement of adventurous people. They would feel belittled by automatic codec install, bash command installation suggestions; everything that helps new users. For every adventurous person we lose, we will gain 100 users who have no idea what that bar on the left is, what those icons in the top-right are, how you find applications, etc. Help is a perfect introduction for new users (English-only though). Seriously, take a look at Help. It's awesome. Part of making a system feel consistent, reliable and predictable is avoiding special cases. A different behavior triggered once is like magic ... Bringing it up once is not a good idea, I agree. To maximize predictability, Help should be brought up on every login, until the user clicks on a button Don't show this next time I log in. While one could say that it should be very obvious and straightforward to access help, that could come at a cost of something else that might be used more often. None of the people I observed using computers ever brought up help, despite that a number of them could have benefited from it. My experience there matches observations and self-reports from others. I know that most technical people feel like they don't need help. I'm such a person, and I would go to Google before starting Help. That's why it's such a great idea to shove Help into their face the first time they use the computer. It may be annoying at first, but curiosity will take over and they'll start exploring, for example, the Tips tricks section. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Getting Started
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 16:35, Niklas Rosenqvist niklas.s.rosenqv...@gmail.com wrote: You can read the Ubuntu welcome center thread: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05790.html and also the section titled the same in this mail in the a realistic vision of the next iteration of unity: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg05999.html Here is the LP bug request for the same topic: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/790628 That looks very interesting. I've now read the threads you linked. There seems to be the question of whether to build a new Tour application or show Help on startup. A custom made tour could have a better experience, but I'm not sure it will be done in time for 11.10. Help already exists and only needs a Don't bug me again button to make it an acceptable welcome screen. I suggest to go for the Tour application, but fall back to using Help if it's not done in time, or the results are not what we hoped for. What do you think? -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Getting Started
So, for as long as I can remember, people have been asking for a welcome screen in Ubuntu which is presented when a new user first logs in. Today, I started Help and was amazed by how straightforward this looks. This is what needs to be started on first boot! One problem I see with the Help text as it is, is that it is English only. The articles should be fed into Launchpad Translations. Yelp is already in there, but it's only the program itself, not the articles. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Re: Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 15:26, Ed Lin edlin...@gmail.com wrote: Here's an idea I just had: we could put icons next to each other, in violation of Fitts's Law, when we have a single menu for all of them which can be accessed by clicking on anywhere on the area, from screen edge to launcher edge. Just going off a tangent here: note that Fitt's law is not violated. You're not limited to the infinite edge trick. You can also make the buttons bigger in the direction of the cursor. This is the reason why labels below buttons make toolbar buttons so much easier to target. We can solve the virtual machine / VNC / quadruple monitor edge case by making the top menu bar twice as thick when we detect the absence of a monitor edge. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Re: Global menu in Oneiric Ocelot (11.10)
On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 02:03, anthropornis anthropor...@gmail.com wrote: Except that OOTB, no mouse I've ever seen on any Linux system is configured with acceleration that works well, much less *that* well. *Especially* not on multi-monitor situations, where the menu to the app you're using could well be on a different *screen* - which is the biggest reason, in my eyes, that the global menu idea fails. It's not that the UI is built wrong, its just that your mouse is configured poorly isn't the right answer. On multi-monitor setups, a menu bar appears on each screen. It falls a little short on the implementation details, but at least your concern is addressed by this. I've maxed out my mouse acceleration settings, which gives me the ability to move from edge to edge in one movement. The default for this needs to be reevaluated. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Overlay scrollbars
On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 14:51, Marco Rofei marco.ro...@gmail.com wrote: There's a plugin for touch screens called 'Unity Grab Handles' which makes it easy ti resize and move windows.:) Problem isn't in resize windows Problem is in scrolling within a document. In Evince, for example, we have an icon that let you jump to next page, but in other software or dialogue there aren't such a buttons (for instance in System Config window). Using touchscreen is quite impossible scrolling down. MR Aren't you supposed to swipe your fingers across the screen to scroll in Evince? An interactive scrollbar is the worst way to scroll in touch UIs. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] What to do with the menubar on non-full screened windows.
On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 11:57, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: Interface design for notebook and desktop PCs has always assumed that you can get from any point on the screen, to any other point on the screen, with a single flick of the mouse or touchpad. That's true for Windows, it's true for Mac OS, and it's true for Ubuntu. If Ubuntu's default mouse settings don't allow for that, we need to fix them. I find that if I set the acceleration to maximum and leave sensitivity on its default, I can comfortably throw my cursor to the left and the top from the other ends of the (WUXGA) screen while not losing the precision in slow movements. Maybe this setting should automatically adjust to screen size? -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 17:14, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com wrote: My personal suggestion would be dropping the title in the panel as mpt suggested, but keeping the idea of merging the titlebar and the panel. This means dropping the title entirely in the maximized case, yes. I don't think anyone would really care. For fixing the gap, I'm going to suggest something controversial, but that I wanted to suggest for a long time anyway: dropping the minimize and maximize buttons, following Gnome3's direction and under their same arguments. This would leave only the space of a single close button to worry about and this could be addressed by something with a fixed size that does not need to be truncated: AN ICON. Awesome. Just awesome. This fixes everything, doesn't it? Matter of fact, I WOULD suggest placing this icon even when the window is maximized and storing a menu with window management options in it, just like you already have depending on your metacity settings. Close *is* a destructive function you don't want near File, after all... But I won't seriously support this second suggestion for the moment, because I suspect that would make closefests of maxmized windows too inneficient, and this is bad for netbook users. Thoughts? I do see a problem with that last one: how is a user going to figure out how to close the window? An (X) button has familiar meaning, but an application specific icon is probably not the first place a user would look. Also, now your icon menu and File menu are located next to each other and have the same item at the end: Close. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problem: Menus hidden by default in Unity
On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 23:29, Mitja Pagon mitja.pa...@inueni.com wrote: I've raised this issue before in various places, but I never got any response, so I'm really, positively surprised to see the same issues raised by someone from Canonical. I also raised this issue in a bug report[1], and was informed that it would be discussed by 'design'. The bug was later closed, with the elaboration that we're now committed to this course for Natty. The thing I find jarring is that we have this mysterious design team that basically discusses things behind our backs here at Ayatana. I understand that a small team with face-to-face meetings can be beneficial to design, but a problem lies in communication and collaboration between the team and Ayatana. I have no idea how this secret discussion lead to the closure of my bug. -- Remco [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/717450 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Zooming the Icon on the launcher (like Docky does)
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 20:58, gnomeu...@gmail.com gnomeu...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/3/11 Cyrille Ngassam Nkwenga cyri...@gmail.com Hi all Would it be not a good idea to make the launcher more living by adding a zoom when we are moving the mouse over an icon on the launcher as Docky does ? Unity has made a good step forward and it would good to make it more living by adding this annimation, this should be the reponse of the launcher to the user when moving over him I think that specific feature might be patented by Apple. At least as I recall this was why Docky was removed from Fedora. From www.rpmfusion.org/Wishlist Why not in Fedora: Docky (part of package gnome-do) was removed from fedora due to patent violations (US Patent 7434177) http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1Sect2=HITOFFd=PALLp=1u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htmr=1f=Gl=50s1=7,434,177.PN.OS=PN/7,434,177RS=PN/7,434,177 User interface for providing consolidation and access Abstract Methods and systems for providing graphical user interfaces are described. To provide greater access and consolidation to frequently used items in the graphical user interface, a userbar is established which includes a plurality of item representations. To permit a greater number of items to reside in the userbar, a magnification function can be provided which magnifies items within the userbar when they are proximate the cursor associated with the graphical user interface. Yeah software patents suck. - David That seems like a very specific patent. Claim 1 is the following: A computer system comprising: a display; a cursor for pointing to a position within said display; a bar rendered on said display and having a plurality of tiles associated therewith; and a processor for varying a size of at least one of said plurality of tiles on said display when said cursor is proximate said bar on said display and for repositioning others of said plurality of tiles along said bar to accommodate the varied size of said one tile. So this patent is referring to the size of these tiles. The patent can be avoided by using the folding technique instead of magnifying. So instead of magnification following the cursor, the unfolding follows the cursor. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Font as default for web site
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 21:47, cyrildz cyri...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Paul, Le jeudi 10 février 2011 à 20:35 +, Paul Sladen a écrit : Is your suggestion that we go beyond this, and set Ubuntu as the default browser font in Firefox, Chromium, Konqueror, ...? Yes , this is what I mean, me too I use it in Firefox (all site render with the Ubuntu Font) and now I can't imagine the web without the Ubuntu Font. I read something like it is possible to do from the Ubuntu setting , not the browser settings. This may not be a good idea from a compatibility point of view. Many websites expect sans-serif to mean Arial, serif to mean Times New Roman and monospace Courier New. They expect sentences they write to be in that font, which has a particular size. If we change an Arial sentence to Ubuntu, it will not be the same size and on some pages that will not fit anymore. Now, we don't have Arial, Times New Roman, or Courier New, since they are not open source. But Red Hat did contribute the Liberation set of fonts, which are completely different fonts, except that the letters are exactly the same size as Arial, Times and Courier. Using these will ensure that web pages don't break. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu Font as default for web site
On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 22:48, Scott E. Armitage launch...@scott.armitage.name wrote: On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Remco remc...@gmail.com wrote: This may not be a good idea from a compatibility point of view. Many websites expect sans-serif to mean Arial, serif to mean Times New Roman and monospace Courier New. They expect sentences they write to be in that font, which has a particular size. If we change an Arial sentence to Ubuntu, it will not be the same size and on some pages that will not fit anymore. Sorry, but if a website wants to use a specific font, then they should specify that font in the stylesheet. The terms sans-serif, serif, and monospace are keywords that allow the browser to display text using the corresponding user-selected fonts. Now, we don't have Arial, Times New Roman, or Courier New, since they are not open source. But Red Hat did contribute the Liberation set of fonts, which are completely different fonts, except that the letters are exactly the same size as Arial, Times and Courier. Using these will ensure that web pages don't break. A web page that relies on the exact pixel-size of a font is broken to begin with. That may or may not be true from a developer point of view (I believe DTPers might object), but from the user's point of view, Ubuntu would break the web. The web is a messy place, and many broken things have become part of the standard. The Liberation fonts provide a solution to the proprietary fonts problem, so there would have to be a very compelling reason to break compatibility again. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Left close buttons on tabs
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:51, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Sladen wrote on 27/01/11 12:24: On Thu, 27 Jan 2011, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Chromium and Chrome have close buttons on the right of their tabs because it's faster to use than having them on the left. http://www.theinvisibl.com/2009/12/08/chrometabs/ I fear that the open in middle tab behaviour rather killed that advantage. You now (Firefox default) have to hunt for the tab to close, rather than the most recent tab being at the end. :) ... On the contrary, it means that tabs relating to the same task are grouped together (because they were opened from the same parent tab), so they can be closed together when you are done. Meanwhile, Firefox is adopting the same fast-tab-closing scheme, which means Firefox's close buttons will stay on the right too. http://frankyan.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/making-tab-closing-easy/ https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=465086#c183 There is no causal relation between buttons on the right and the fast closing scheme. As the blog post acknowledges, everything could be mirrored, and it would still work. The justification for buttons on the right is that LTR languages read from left to right. The same could be said for window closing buttons, so why not put those on the right, too? -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Compiz close-buttons on expose
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 01:32, Jeremy Nickurak jer...@nickurak.ca wrote: Moving/resizing expose'd windows doesn't make much sense, nor minimize/maximize. Close is the only one I can come up with a convincing reason for: Being able to quickly close a bunch of windows without having to move around re-focus them to find them. I'd appreciate a close button too, for the purpose of closing many windows. You can try out this behaviour right now by enabling the Scale addons. You can bind closing the window to the middle mouse button. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Put a resize widget in the title bar
On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 07:16, cmaglothin cmaglot...@gmail.com wrote: I agree. The only reason I ever boot into Windows is that I have to annotate movies for a class, and Snap makes it very easy to do with just two clicks. On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:34 PM, David Hamm davidth...@gmail.com wrote: in fact i'd say it almost a upgrade deciding factor for vista to 7 You'll like Compiz Grid. I think Frederik's idea is simply a mouse interface to Compiz Grid. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Put a resize widget in the title bar
With the new theme, the resize border has been reduced to 1 pixel, making it annoyingly difficult to resize a window. Some solutions have been proposed, such as always requiring a status bar with a resize widget, or doing some magic with the borders to make them act like they are bigger than 1px. The easiest solution has--as far as I know--been overlooked: use the title bar. We don't use the right side of the title bar at the moment. Eventually, it will fill with windicators. How about we put one in there for every window that can be resized: a dotted resize handle. A mockup is attached. -- Remco attachment: resize-widget-in-titlebar.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Put a resize widget in the title bar
On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 19:24, Dylan McCall dylanmcc...@gmail.com wrote: This is already the case with the border on the top in the Ambiance and Radiance themes. Unfortunately, Compiz, doesn't understand that bit of the window theme. If you run Metacity (disable “desktop effects”) you will be pleasantly surprised. This was also the case with the border on the bottom, but since I never run Compiz (for issues like the one I just described) I never realized it didn't work by default. I guess that's why people misunderstood it and it seems to have been removed in Maverick. Dylan The behaviour with Metacity is exactly right. Still, I think the visual resize grip would be beneficial, to guide people to that area if they want to resize the window. I have reported a bug about the Compiz issue: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/657032 I would also love such a border on the bottom! -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Browser Offline Message
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 01:04, David Hamm davidth...@gmail.com wrote: I've notice this problem on 3 separate lucid computers. One of them not mine. Simple fix but not sure why the network got disabled. Even though this is a design email, just though i'd throw it out there. I don't think there should even be the option to disable the network from the tray. Rather it should at least be tucked away in the cp. If you are offline it should be because A: your on wifi and simply need to pick a location. B: the cable is pulled out. or C: You slaved through menu's to disable it. Typically I wouldn't say anything tho cus the network tray is being replaced... If for some reason the network has been disabled without your knowledge, it should be easy to turn it on again. The easiest fix in the case of Firefox, would be to change the offline message to direct the user to enable the network. A slightly better solution would be to provide a button or a widget that allows you to enable the network, or choose an accesspoint right from within Firefox. That allows you to fix the problem right where it occurs. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 15:46, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote: In this scenario someone is using (for example) Calculator, Banshee, Empathy, Gmail, Amazon, CNN, Farmville, the Gundam AnimeSuki Forum, and Hulu respectively. That they are using Firefox for 70% of these things does not mean it is useful or informative for Firefox to appear in the corner of the screen while doing them -- just as, for example, Gnome or Xorg or Ubuntu or GNU or Linux shouldn't. Taking up that much screen space with any of those brands may well be good for their vendors, but it is not relevant to user goals. Oh, but you're not directly using Gmail, or Amazon, or CNN, or Farmville, or any of those sites. You're using a browser to view them. This browser has a URL bar, a back button, bookmarks, history, extensions, tabs. You can pretend that a web page is a normal application (with Prism and those kinds of things), but that's a whole other thing. If you're using a browser, then the application menu which will allow you to manipulate that browser is a useful feature. Now, if you create a Prism app from a web page, then it would make sense that the web page itself fills that menu. This is something that Prism developers would have to figure out though. You're assuming the point. Why should I care that it's a Thunderbird window? That matters only if I often use multiple e-mail clients and need to distinguish between them. Or if you use Thunderbird instead of the default email client in Ubuntu. Brands exist to reduce confusion. They allow people to talk about the software they are using. If you have a document open in Microsoft Word and a spreadsheet open in Microsoft Excel, and you choose Quit from Excel's application menu on the Mac (or Exit from its Office button on Windows), the spreadsheet will close. But if you had the same document open in OpenOffice.org Writer, and the same spreadsheet open in OpenOffice.org Calc, and you chose Quit from OpenOffice.org's app menu in Gnome Shell, the spreadsheet would close, and -- surprise! -- the document would close too. Why? Because Microsoft Word and Microsoft Excel happen to be coded as separate applications, but OpenOffice.org Writer and OpenOffice.org Calc happen to be coded as a single application. Given how far off you were in thinking people knew what a Web browser was, please excuse me for not taking your word for it when you claim that people know that [OpenOffice.org] is all the same program. The app menu does not introduce this problem, but it does perpetuate it and enshrine it. And Quit is given as the first example of an item justifying the menu's existence at all. The bug seems to be that users don't expect Writer and Calc to be the same application. Instead of getting rid of a menu which would trigger this bug more often, it would be better to actually make them behave as separate applications. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Brainstorming the Me Menu again
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 13:40, Luke Benstead kaz...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, once the implementation is complete things will be a lot better, but I think we can simplify the menu a bit more. I think we should have a divider between the social networking stuff, and the IM statuses as they are not related. Also, I'm not entirely sure why we need the name on the me menu when there is a name on the Me-menu button itself. I've attached a hacked up version of MPTs mockup from the wiki page. Luke. I still think it's unclear what that text box does. I made a quick mockup which adds some text to the text boxes, explaining what they are supposed to do. This text goes away when the text box is activated. The social networking text box says Post Twitter message... when the Twitter icon is selected. It should change to whatever social network is selected. I also changed the Custom Status menu entry into a text box. That makes it even more clear that the top text box is for social networking, and not setting status. This changes/simplifies the way you set custom statuses: you first choose a status, and then you can explain the status. It may come with preset 'explanations' such as I am busy for Busy. -- Remco attachment: MeMenuMock2.png___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Brainstorming the Me Menu again
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 14:51, Remco remc...@gmail.com wrote: I also changed the Custom Status menu entry into a text box. That makes it even more clear that the top text box is for social networking, and not setting status. This changes/simplifies the way you set custom statuses: you first choose a status, and then you can explain the status. It may come with preset 'explanations' such as I am busy for Busy. Hm, that part might not be a good idea. This would mean that you always have to open the menu twice: once for setting the status, and once for explaining. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Brainstorming the Me Menu again
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 15:04, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com wrote: I still think it's unclear what that text box does. I made a quick mockup which adds some text to the text boxes, explaining what they are supposed to do. This text goes away when the text box is activated. The social networking text box says Post Twitter message... when the Twitter icon is selected. It should change to whatever social network is selected. When more than one is selected, we are pretty much back to the original problem, unless we do something like concatenate everything (post to Twitter/Identi.ca/Facebook), which sounds kinda heavy. Then it's probably better to make it general: Post public message..., or Post to selected networks... Furthermore, one of the things I currently like the most in the Me Menu is the fact that the text box receives focus automatically when you click on the Me Menu icon. That wouldn't fit your proposal as it would immediately delete the explanation text. A possible adaptation would be deleting it only when the user starts typing, but I have some doubts whether it can be made obvious enough that the text is temporary and not solid. Yeah, that's not a good solution. Maybe take the text out of the text box and onto its own line. Then (when keeping Luke's idea) you have three lines next to the face icon. Sounds messy. I'd prefer losing the auto focus feature. Gah, menus are difficult. ;) Or, now for something completely different: move the broadcasting text box to the messaging menu. The MeMenu was for managing your presence, not for actual messaging. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lock Screen / Guest Session / Switch From / Log Out / Suspend / Hibernate / Shut Down
On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 19:54, Alex Launi alex.la...@gmail.com wrote: Any easy fix to remedy part of the situation would be to remove the Guest session button and move that into the 'Switch from' window. That sounds alright. Choosing the mysterious Guest Session is conceptually the same as switching to a brand new temporary account. It may actually be easier to understand if this option is offered and explained on the Switch From screen. * Log Out Log Out can be removed by default. Most systems are single-user systems, so there's no need to close a session but not a computer. Even on family systems with multiple users, the computer will not be running when there is no session. Switching to another user can be done with Switch From. The need for Log Out is for situations where the machines are just terminals, such as universities and internet shops. These computers are never shut down, so Log Out would replace Shut Down. * Suspend / Hibernate I don't think both options should be there. There should be a single option called sleep, which does either one of them, or both, depending on the capabilities of the system and user preference. Sleep should not go away entirely, because not every computer has a special sleep button. Desktops and tablets for example. Laptops and netbooks may have the ability to go to sleep when the lid is closed, but I find that a bad functionality, because then you can't just close your laptop to make some room while it is doing an upgrade or burning a CD. * Restart This can go away, too. It's the equivalent of shutting down and then pressing the power button. Ubuntu should make it easy to understand that the computer has shut down, by providing a graphic, and it should be fast enough (less than 5 seconds), so users are not waiting needlessly to press the power button again. Update-manager can of course offer a restart button in case of kernel upgrades. Even better would be to use ksplice, so that reboots are never needed. So, then we're left with: Lock Screen Switch From john - Sleep Shut Down Or Log Out for that last one, depending on the setting. Now, that's clean! -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Redesigning the Ubuntu mouse cursor for simple notification of app attention
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 21:41, Greg K Nicholson g...@gkn.me.uk wrote: On 16 June 2010 15:24, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote: Platform team is reviewing unclutter for inclusion in the default install and session. \o/ ( Everyone: Alt+F2, apt:unclutter Alt+F2, unclutter ) After using this for a day, I have come across one problem: when hovering over a tooltip, the cursor disappears after 2 seconds and takes the tooltip with it, making all kinds of programs more difficult to use. Unclutter should detect tooltips and keep the cursor visible. No other problems with it. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Replace Minimize with Push Down
On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 17:52, Jan-Christoph Borchardt inqu...@googlemail.com wrote: On 22 May 2010 17:21, Frederik Nnaji frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 22, 2010 at 17:12, Bob Hazard linuxoflon...@googlemail.com wrote: RISC OS used to have a Send To Back button on the left next to Close, with min/max on the right so .. was it usable? I did not use RISC OS but can imagine having a hard time memorizing the sequence of layered applications. The simple solution to get rid of the bottom panel is to just move the Window List applet to the space in the top panel. Ubuntu has a send to back function right now. Middle click on the window title will send the window to the back. It's a nice replacement for minimizing. It doesn't have to replace it though. Send to back is useful if you don't need a window right now, but want to keep it around. It works best if windows aren't maximized, i.e. Mac behaviour. Minimize is useful if you don't want to use the window at all for some time. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders
On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 22:15, Tyler Brainerd tylerbrain...@gmail.com wrote: Only incidentally. The primary way of opening a file in the open dialog, and the way I see mothers, fathers, and the basically uninformed using it, is by selecting then pushing the open button, not double clicking. I've actually had people freak out by how quick I get through that navigation, because they had no clue you could do that. Still, it's a problem that needs to be solved. A single click setting should take effect for the whole system, not just Nautilus. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Instant-messaging as an indicator menu
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 17:35, Jeremy Nickurak jer...@nickurak.ca wrote: How do you access an addressbook of 2,000 entries with a traditional window? That seems like a daunting task by itself, so I'd be curious to know what the strategy there is. In the Contact List of Empathy, if you start typing the name of the one you are looking for, a search box will appear. You'll end up selecting the entry. There are a number of problems with this: * The search box is invisible until you start typing, making it difficult to discover. Maybe the status text box should be moved to the bottom, like in Pidgin, so that an always-visible search box can be placed at the top of the list. * It only searches contacts that are initially visible in the list. Offline contacts are usually hidden. You should be able to also find offline contacts, who you could then send an offline message or an email (that last functionality does not currently exist though). * When doing the search, non-matching entries remain visible. It's just that the selection moves to the first visible entry. * The search only matches the beginning of entries. You can't type Doe and expect to find John Doe. You have to start with J. In the Messaging Menu, I would not place a list of all contacts. That could get messy with 2000 contacts. It's better to just put a search box there. If you start typing in the search box, matching contacts will start appearing in the menu. Maybe the concept of favorite contacts could be introduced, so you can have a couple of contacts that appear in the menu before searching. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Instant-messaging as an indicator menu
On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 18:11, Jeremy Nickurak jer...@nickurak.ca wrote: On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 10:07, Remco remc...@gmail.com wrote: In the Contact List of Empathy, if you start typing the name of the one you are looking for, a search box will appear. You'll end up selecting the entry. There are a number of problems with this: Any reason this couldn't work with an indicator-style menu? The volume control already has an interface where the menu must be opened and then interacted with, although I'm unclear on how focus would work here. Yes, that's the search box I mentioned. Focus would work as you'd expect: open the menu, click the text box and start typing. Whether the focus is automatically on the search field is a detail. I don't really care either way. In the Messaging Menu, I would not place a list of all contacts. That could get messy with 2000 contacts. It's better to just put a search box there. If you start typing in the search box, matching contacts will start appearing in the menu. Maybe the concept of favorite contacts could be introduced, so you can have a couple of contacts that appear in the menu before searching. My understanding is that empathy devs are already working on a 'favorites' list for the contact list, that would show up as a virtual group. Cool! On the topic of contacts, I find it kind of confusing that there are two separate lists of contacts. There is the contact list maintained in Evolution, and one maintained by Empathy. It would be nice if every contact in Empathy would also get saved to the contact list of Evolution. Then, when searching through this unified list, you could decide to call, text or email someone, depending on the capabilities of the contact. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:29, Alex Lourie djay...@gmail.com wrote: So how would a simple selection be solved? If I want to select a file or a folder, I single-click on it. If this behavior changes, then A LOT of people will have to change their behavior. So if changing this hurts more people than helps, I'd say it requires a lot of thinking ahead. I think single click should not be default, but there is one way of improving single selection in that mode: put a checkbox before each file and folder. This also makes it easier to do multi selection in any mode. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Default to single click to open files and folders
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:07, Alex Lourie djay...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Remco remc...@gmail.com wrote: I think single click should not be default, but there is one way of improving single selection in that mode: put a checkbox before each file and folder. This also makes it easier to do multi selection in any mode. And how would it be implemented in icon mode? A checkbox somewhere on the icon. I remember seeing this on a Windows machine: http://malektips.com/windows-7-explorer-checkbox-select-file.html -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Is it time we killed minimize to tray ?
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 16:38, Luke Benstead kaz...@gmail.com wrote: In this situation minimize to tray is: a.) Effectively the same thing b.) A pain to work with because now there are two possible places that your window could be minimized to Plus, a tray (or app-indicator) icon: c.) Has no standard behaviour: the menu item that would restore the window could be located anywhere in the menu d.) Is a tiny icon without label or tooltip By standardizing around a panel applet with dock-like behaviour, we will only need application indicators for regular applications that want to list a few quick actions in a menu, and obviously for system services. The Messaging Menu wouldn't have to be a place where applications live either. Evolution happily uses both the window list and the Messaging Menu. So, Empathy could show two windows in its entry on the dock: the contact list and the conversations window. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Is it time we killed minimize to tray ?
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 21:06, Gavin Langdon puttabu...@gmail.com wrote: Finally, it would increase the utility of standard window minimizing. Rather than removing the application completely from the user's grasp when they minimize it, it is simply taking up less space. The user does not need to unminimize the media player in order to change songs--it 'sets up shop' in the taskbar instead of hiding there. One last thing: if support was added to tear off these taskbar menus, things could get even more interesting. Most media players have a 'compact mode' in which they take up about 200x100 pixels at the most. If it was allowed to tear off the taskbar menus, any application could be usable in 'mini mode'. The most obvious example is for the media player, but think beyond that and you see opportunities for downloaders, chat programs, and more. In fact, the whole paradigm of small applets that take up little space has already been implemented--Gadgets/Widgets! Their issue is they're hidden away, not integrated well, and are separate from larger apps so must be managed separately. If the window previews and contextual menus supported being torn off the taskbar, these would serve perfectly as widgets. This is awesome! So, instead of a simple item in the window list, it becomes a mini version of the program. It's a bit like how the Windows Media Player[1] is implemented in Windows 7, but instead of a preview with buttons that only becomes visible when you hover over the icon, the icon itself is the mini player! So your lower panel becomes a row of mini applications. [1] http://www.uxpassion.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/windows-media-player-taskbar-thumbnail.jpg -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 11:55, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote: Some security updates are not active until you reboot. Period. If there is a security problem in your kernel, you need a new kernel, and you need to boot it. We're done a lot of work to minimise the number of cases where that's important, but I'm not aware of any way to eliminate the occasional requirement of a reboot. There is a way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksplice And it's already in the repos: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ksplice That's the kernel part. Some things, like changing a user's list of groups, still require logging out and in again. But there's no fundamental reason for a reboot. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from Farewell to the notification area)
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:47, Tyler Brainerd tylerbrain...@gmail.com wrote: I think we need to focus a bit more on the fundamental reasons why we use workspaces. I for one often switch to a new workspace because i don't want to see any of what i was working on before. I don't want tabs from before, apps from before, any single thing, just a clean, open, new desktop. The only other way i use it is to have a second reference, so that I can have two docs side by side and a third on the next workspace. So, if my goal is to have a brand new clean open space, why clutter it up with the tabs and such? i don't want to see/think about what i had open before. Often I will mentally designate one as personal, one as school, one as work, rather then application specific. And if these tabs in the mockups (which do look nice, by the way) operate in the way describe, what possible benefit is there to not just minimizing apps? If every open app on every open workspace is on something that is basically the taskbar to begin with (just with workspace grouping added) then its actually more cluttered, more duplicated feature, and quite frankly, not helpful yet. I see your point, but I disagree that the workspace tabs aren't helpful. The idea of workspaces is that they reduce screen clutter of many opened windows. This is functionality that the workspace tabs replicate in a more discoverable manner. Once you click on the Plus button, you're presented with an empty screen. The icons of running (or pinned) programs on other tabs are still there, but your new tab is squeaky clean. The window list is an additional feature to help with switching programs. A long list of windows is hard to search through, yes, but it doesn't become easier when most of your window list is hidden. But this can be--and is--a configuration option. The real problem is that searching a list is relatively difficult for humans, while searching spatially (through a desktop full of windows) is a lot easier. Mac OSX enabled this with Exposé, which was copied in Compiz and will also be a major feature of GNOME Shell. GNOME Shell combines workspaces and Exposé. [1] I'd like to re-bring up my idea for a set of tabs along the top that are not workspace with open apps contained, but rather app layers for assignable programs. we have one widget layer which many use for widgets or tomboy, but what if we design a stackable layer system? have the first tab be for standard desktop/workspace environment. the workspace switcher can remain as is until a more suitable option is worked out. then, instead of rolling over to a new desktop, we click to activate the tab on top for messenging apps, and up pops of 'widget' type layer. This would de-saturate or fade the original workspace, and would bring up whatever you have open in this layer, like email, IM, gwibber, which would be interacted with in the standard way. both panels would remain as-is, but the taskbar would show what is open and active on the 'widget' messenger layer. A second layer can have a file browser, or whatever. The user can open anything he or she feels on these different layers, but they are not restricted. If i want to pin an IM conversation to my primary workspace instead of the IM layer, thats fine, I can open it the standard way, or perhaps click and drag it to the top of the screen, to the original workspace tab. This, i think, would better situate the app specific use of workspaces, much better then a series of full workspaces. I for one keep one down and to the left with email always open. But this would work better for keeping things from getting cluttered. Email would be in the second tab, available on every single workspace, just the same as music or any other custom stuff. This would add a whole new dimension of workspace use, so rather then just a series of never ending desktops, we could get some always quickly available, task specific (but specific to the user, not assigned) workspace layers. I like this as well, I think. I would like to see some kind of mockup. If I understand correctly, it provides the same functionality as workspace tabs, only in a different dimension. It's like layers in GIMP. You can bring a layer to the front, rearrange them, hide/unhide them. I do believe that this is more difficult to figure out though. You can't really see layers. A new user would have to play with them to figure out how it works. I think these two approaches don't bite each other. You could have workspace tabs in the X and Y dimension, and also workspace layers in the Z dimension. The Z dimension would seem to me as more of a power user feature. But it lends itself to another awesome 3D visualization: Windows Vista's Flip 3D! [2] -- Remco [1] http://blog.zedroot.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/gnome-shell-multi-desktop.jpg [2] http://100vista.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/vista_flip3d.jpg ___ Mailing list
Re: [Ayatana] mail indicator not consistency
On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 16:42, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com wrote: Dani, though I agree that consistency is important, you should keep in mind that the two concepts involved here are semantically different. In the messaging menu the arrow means running while in the me menu the point means selected. The most important difference between the two is that *more than one* app can be running, while *only one* status can be selected. Using the same symbol might give the impression that they are conceptually the same thing, which is not a good idea, IMO. Furthermore, I disagree that the arrow doesn't make sense. It is the universal symbol for playing in media players, so it kinda fits with the concept of running. I won't say it's the best choice possible, but I have no qualms with it either. There is one problem with the 'playing arrow', in that it conceptually only makes sense to play one thing at a time. An arrow gives me a strong impression of a single item that is selected and is going through some sequence right now. For example, in the Totem playlist an arrow means: this item is playing right now. Plus, I think we can simplify this interface. Is it really important to know which of those applications is running right now? What are the use cases for knowing which of the messaging applications is running? For me personally, the only use case is that those applications maintain presence information and they notify for new messages. If one of those applications is closed, and I am Online according to the Me Menu, I still don't maintain presence in that application, or get notified of new messages. That's inconsistent. It forces the user to know the difference between having an application open, and 'being online'. I'd say, that as soon as I change my status to Online, then I want all my messaging applications to maintain my Online presence and notify me of messages. This can be done in two ways: Either Ubuntu starts all the applications whenever you go Online, so the arrow becomes unnecessary. Or presence and message notification is split out from Empathy, Evolution and Gwibber, and turned into a daemon. Then the arrow also becomes unnecessary, because it's not important anymore which apps are open, except to be able to switch to them, as any other window in the Window List applet. I see that Empathy is already linked in this way to the presence status of the Me Menu. In the current version, setting you status is impossible if you don't first start Empathy. In earlier versions, Empathy would get started as soon as you set your status to Online. If the other applications could do the same, I don't see a need for an arrow. -- Remco ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
