Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Can someone help me with this marriage

[Bill Seidler]

Not without his seeing his first marriage or his baptism.  Usually it is 
only a first marriage that says: son of (FATHERS NAME) and (MOTHERS NAME).  
Second and subsequent usually only say viuvo (widower) of (NAME OF PREVIOUS 
SPOUSE)

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 9:35:04 PM UTC-7, R Downey wrote:
>
> Thank you Bill.
>
> I really appreciate it.
>
> Can you tell who his parents? are.  Yes I forgot to mention the first 
> wife.  I had her listed also.  
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 1:15 PM Bill Seidler  > wrote:
>
>> Here is the link to the record (left side) 
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-C-1771-1801/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-C-1771-1801_item1/P197.html
>>
>> Her parents are José Soares, já defunto (deceased) and his wife Francisca 
>> Rosa.
>>
>> He is the widower of Mariana Laurencia? who is buried in the parish of 
>> Santo Reis do Magos dos Fenais de Vera Cruz (Fenais da Ajuda).  You will 
>> have to find his first marriage to get his parents' names.
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 8:46:33 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rene,
>>>
>>> You need to attach the URL so we can view the record.
>>>
>>> A marriage record only lists the bride and groom and their parents. It 
>>> won't list any siblings.
>>> Cheri
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira 
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:43 PM R Downey  wrote:
>>>
 I have struggled to figure this marriage certificate out for my g grand 
 parents.

 What I believe I can make out is

 Lourenco Medeiros and Francisca Jacintha Rosa

 May 16th 1801

 Place:  Conceicao Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel

 Her parents:  Jose Soares do Rego and Francisca Rosa - I think

 His I cannot figure out at all?

 There is also Maria Clara?  Sister? (but I cannot remember if that name 
 was listed elsewhere or on here, but I have that also handwritten?)

  Any information you can help me with would be greatly appreciated.  I 
 have struggled to read this for months and I think this 1 record ties me 
 to 
 several distant cousins I am trying to find the link to.

 Rene

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 .

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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Can someone help me with this marriage

[R Downey]

Thank you Bill.

I really appreciate it.

Can you tell who his parents? are.  Yes I forgot to mention the first
wife.  I had her listed also.

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 1:15 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Here is the link to the record (left side)
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-C-1771-1801/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-C-1771-1801_item1/P197.html
>
> Her parents are José Soares, já defunto (deceased) and his wife Francisca
> Rosa.
>
> He is the widower of Mariana Laurencia? who is buried in the parish of
> Santo Reis do Magos dos Fenais de Vera Cruz (Fenais da Ajuda).  You will
> have to find his first marriage to get his parents' names.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 8:46:33 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rene,
>>
>> You need to attach the URL so we can view the record.
>>
>> A marriage record only lists the bride and groom and their parents. It
>> won't list any siblings.
>> Cheri
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:43 PM R Downey  wrote:
>>
>>> I have struggled to figure this marriage certificate out for my g grand
>>> parents.
>>>
>>> What I believe I can make out is
>>>
>>> Lourenco Medeiros and Francisca Jacintha Rosa
>>>
>>> May 16th 1801
>>>
>>> Place:  Conceicao Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel
>>>
>>> Her parents:  Jose Soares do Rego and Francisca Rosa - I think
>>>
>>> His I cannot figure out at all?
>>>
>>> There is also Maria Clara?  Sister? (but I cannot remember if that name
>>> was listed elsewhere or on here, but I have that also handwritten?)
>>>
>>>  Any information you can help me with would be greatly appreciated.  I
>>> have struggled to read this for months and I think this 1 record ties me to
>>> several distant cousins I am trying to find the link to.
>>>
>>> Rene
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to azo...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/9a563650-ba0c-4355-9ba1-3e28db9e383a%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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> 
> .
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Can someone help me with this marriage

[Bill Seidler]

Here is the link to the record (left side) 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-C-1771-1801/SMG-RG-CONCEICAO-C-1771-1801_item1/P197.html

Her parents are José Soares, já defunto (deceased) and his wife Francisca 
Rosa.

He is the widower of Mariana Laurencia? who is buried in the parish of 
Santo Reis do Magos dos Fenais de Vera Cruz (Fenais da Ajuda).  You will 
have to find his first marriage to get his parents' names.

Bill Seidler


On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 8:46:33 PM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Hi Rene,
>
> You need to attach the URL so we can view the record.
>
> A marriage record only lists the bride and groom and their parents. It 
> won't list any siblings.
> Cheri
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:43 PM R Downey  > wrote:
>
>> I have struggled to figure this marriage certificate out for my g grand 
>> parents.
>>
>> What I believe I can make out is
>>
>> Lourenco Medeiros and Francisca Jacintha Rosa
>>
>> May 16th 1801
>>
>> Place:  Conceicao Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel
>>
>> Her parents:  Jose Soares do Rego and Francisca Rosa - I think
>>
>> His I cannot figure out at all?
>>
>> There is also Maria Clara?  Sister? (but I cannot remember if that name 
>> was listed elsewhere or on here, but I have that also handwritten?)
>>
>>  Any information you can help me with would be greatly appreciated.  I 
>> have struggled to read this for months and I think this 1 record ties me to 
>> several distant cousins I am trying to find the link to.
>>
>> Rene
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to azo...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/9a563650-ba0c-4355-9ba1-3e28db9e383a%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Can someone help me with this marriage

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Rene,

You need to attach the URL so we can view the record.

A marriage record only lists the bride and groom and their parents. It
won't list any siblings.
Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 8:43 PM R Downey  wrote:

> I have struggled to figure this marriage certificate out for my g grand
> parents.
>
> What I believe I can make out is
>
> Lourenco Medeiros and Francisca Jacintha Rosa
>
> May 16th 1801
>
> Place:  Conceicao Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel
>
> Her parents:  Jose Soares do Rego and Francisca Rosa - I think
>
> His I cannot figure out at all?
>
> There is also Maria Clara?  Sister? (but I cannot remember if that name
> was listed elsewhere or on here, but I have that also handwritten?)
>
>  Any information you can help me with would be greatly appreciated.  I
> have struggled to read this for months and I think this 1 record ties me to
> several distant cousins I am trying to find the link to.
>
> Rene
>
> --
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> 
> .
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Can someone help me with this marriage

[R Downey]

I have struggled to figure this marriage certificate out for my g grand 
parents.

What I believe I can make out is

Lourenco Medeiros and Francisca Jacintha Rosa

May 16th 1801

Place:  Conceicao Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel

Her parents:  Jose Soares do Rego and Francisca Rosa - I think

His I cannot figure out at all?

There is also Maria Clara?  Sister? (but I cannot remember if that name was 
listed elsewhere or on here, but I have that also handwritten?)

 Any information you can help me with would be greatly appreciated.  I have 
struggled to read this for months and I think this 1 record ties me to 
several distant cousins I am trying to find the link to.

Rene

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

[Cheri Mello]

Wow, you were lucky! Maybe that priest did genealogy! :)
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 7:17 PM Bill Seidler  wrote:

> Yes the name changes do make it challenging.  I just wanted to point out
> one marriage from my tree that was written by a priest that seemed to have
> future genealogist in mind.  It says Rosa da Conceição, *ALSO KNOW AS
> ROSA DOS ANJOS AT HER FIRST MARRIAGE..*.
>
> I felt lucky on this one that I didn't have to guess that Rosa de
> Conceição and Rosa dos Anjos were the same person.
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1900-1911/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1900-1911_item1/P160.html
>  (starts
> lower left)
>
> Bill Seidler
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 5:35:20 PM UTC-7, Ângela Loura wrote:
>>
>> I would say it's the same person.
>> I have a Laurência who shows up as Laurência Rosa, Laurência de Jesus,
>> and finally Laurência Rosa de Jesus.
>>
>> Also try to find out the death record(s) for your Joaquina.
>>
>> Cheri Mello  escreveu no dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s)
>> 21:01:
>>
>>> It depends on the record. At the baptism, the mother was not present (at
>>> least back in the day). So someone may not have remembered her middle name
>>> correctly. Or maybe she changed it for some reason. I make a timeline with
>>> all the records she is in and I weigh the evidence from there.
>>> Good luck,
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira
>>> Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>>> azo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
 If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa
 and one of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her
 parents and grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that
 there are two Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina
 Umbelina and they are sisters or am I to think that her name is either
 Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?



 Sam (Mazatlán, MX)




 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

[Bill Seidler]

Yes the name changes do make it challenging.  I just wanted to point out 
one marriage from my tree that was written by a priest that seemed to have 
future genealogist in mind.  It says Rosa da Conceição, *ALSO KNOW AS ROSA 
DOS ANJOS AT HER FIRST MARRIAGE..*.

I felt lucky on this one that I didn't have to guess that Rosa de Conceição 
and Rosa dos Anjos were the same person.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1900-1911/SMG-PD-SAOSEBASTIAO-C-1900-1911_item1/P160.html
 (starts 
lower left)

Bill Seidler



On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 5:35:20 PM UTC-7, Ângela Loura wrote:
>
> I would say it's the same person.
> I have a Laurência who shows up as Laurência Rosa, Laurência de Jesus, and 
> finally Laurência Rosa de Jesus.
>
> Also try to find out the death record(s) for your Joaquina.
>
> Cheri Mello > escreveu no dia quarta, 
> 28/08/2019 à(s) 21:01:
>
>> It depends on the record. At the baptism, the mother was not present (at 
>> least back in the day). So someone may not have remembered her middle name 
>> correctly. Or maybe she changed it for some reason. I make a timeline with 
>> all the records she is in and I weigh the evidence from there.
>> Good luck,
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
>> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
>> azo...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>>
>>> If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa 
>>> and one of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her 
>>> parents and grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that 
>>> there are two Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina 
>>> Umbelina and they are sisters or am I to think that her name is either 
>>> Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>  Virus-free. 
>>> www.avast.com 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> <#CAHSkNFeMRNSAM2OT-dFpmtCdOGCyGRL1zgfFFGUsDbv-QYgRaA@mail.gmail.com_m_7867508901503665241_m_-142597923243736_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
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>>> Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/5d66dbc0.1c69fb81.d3127.02baSMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING%40gmr-mx.google.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Trnaslation help marriage

[Bill Seidler]

Yes, Maria Dutra was first married to Gaspar João.  If that was her first 
marriage, then the marriage you posted is her second marriage.

Both the marriage you posted and her first marriage (see link below, 2nd on 
right) give her name as Maria Dutra and her first husband as Gaspar João.  
Only on CITCEM have I seen the names Maria Dutra *Correia *and Gaspar João 
*Afonso 
*so I don't know the source of those surnames.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719_item1/P18.html

I hope this helps,

Bill Seidler



On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 5:35:20 PM UTC-7, Lizmig wrote:
>
> Am I reading this correctly
> She was first married to Gaspar Joao Afonso from Cedros
> This marriage paper is for 2nd husband?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Bill Seidler > 
> wrote:
>
> I see the date as you do.  
>
> The groom is Francisco Fernandes son of Francisco Fernandes, deaceased, 
> and his wife Maria de Mendonça?
> The bride is Maria Dutra (Correia is not mentioned), widow of Gaspar 
> João.  You would have to find the first marriage to get her parents.
>
> I did compare this with CITCEM and it appears to be what you are looking 
> for.  CITCEM gives the brides name as Maria Dutra Correia and gives Gaspar 
> João Afonso as her first husband who she married in Santa Barbara parish (I 
> believe this is Cedros) on 18 Jan 1694.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 12:57:50 PM UTC-7, Lizmig wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719_item1/P85.html
>>
>> Bottom Left
>> Could this be the marriage of Francisco Fernandes and Maria Dutra 
>> Correia  Oct 19, 1705?
>> If so can you see or does it tell the parents names?
>>
>> Liz
>>
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> 
> .
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help please Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Angela, terrific!  Thank you!

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:35 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help please Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

It's Maria:
«O indivíduo a que se refere este registo de nome Maria da Assunção Soares, com 
estado de casada com Manuel de Sousa, faleceu nesta freguesia no dia dezasseis 
do corrente mês e ano.» 17-04-1934

'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  escreveu no 
dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s) 20:57:
Is this side note showing someone dying on 17 Apr 1934.  Is it Maria 
d’Assumpacao Soares or her husband, Manoel de Sousa?  I show their marriage 
date as 10 Oct 1895 from their marriage record but; I don’t have the death date 
of either of them.
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879_item1/P29.html
 
Appreciate the help,
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Trnaslation help marriage

[Liz Migliori]

Am I reading this correctly
She was first married to Gaspar Joao Afonso from Cedros
This marriage paper is for 2nd husband?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 5:13 PM, Bill Seidler  wrote:
> 
> I see the date as you do.  
> 
> The groom is Francisco Fernandes son of Francisco Fernandes, deaceased, and 
> his wife Maria de Mendonça?
> The bride is Maria Dutra (Correia is not mentioned), widow of Gaspar João.  
> You would have to find the first marriage to get her parents.
> 
> I did compare this with CITCEM and it appears to be what you are looking for. 
>  CITCEM gives the brides name as Maria Dutra Correia and gives Gaspar João 
> Afonso as her first husband who she married in Santa Barbara parish (I 
> believe this is Cedros) on 18 Jan 1694.
> 
> Bill Seidler
> 
>> On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 12:57:50 PM UTC-7, Lizmig wrote:
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719_item1/P85.html
>> 
>> Bottom Left
>> Could this be the marriage of Francisco Fernandes and Maria Dutra Correia  
>> Oct 19, 1705?
>> If so can you see or does it tell the parents names?
>> 
>> Liz
> 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help please Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

[Ângela Loura]

It's Maria:
«O indivíduo a que se refere este registo de nome Maria da Assunção Soares,
com estado de casada com Manuel de Sousa, faleceu nesta freguesia no dia
dezasseis do corrente mês e ano.» 17-04-1934

'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  escreveu
no dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s) 20:57:

> Is this side note showing someone dying on 17 Apr 1934.  Is it Maria
> d’Assumpacao Soares or her husband, Manoel de Sousa?  I show their marriage
> date as 10 Oct 1895 from their marriage record but; I don’t have the death
> date of either of them.
>
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879_item1/P29.html
>
>
>
> Appreciate the help,
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_1723245949199257891_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

[Ângela Loura]

I would say it's the same person.
I have a Laurência who shows up as Laurência Rosa, Laurência de Jesus, and
finally Laurência Rosa de Jesus.

Also try to find out the death record(s) for your Joaquina.

Cheri Mello  escreveu no dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s)
21:01:

> It depends on the record. At the baptism, the mother was not present (at
> least back in the day). So someone may not have remembered her middle name
> correctly. Or maybe she changed it for some reason. I make a timeline with
> all the records she is in and I weigh the evidence from there.
> Good luck,
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa and
>> one of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her
>> parents and grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that
>> there are two Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina
>> Umbelina and they are sisters or am I to think that her name is either
>> Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>  Virus-free.
>> www.avast.com
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>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

[Pam Santos]

I would say same person I have come across different Joaquina with
different middle name but to verify look for another baptism with that name

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 1:31 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Thanks Cheri.  I’ve found this kind of thing many times and it drives me
> nutso trying to figure out who is who.  This changing or adding names seems
> to happen fairly frequently. G….  I guess in using the timeline, you
> can see if once the name is “changed” it stays changed and if not, one can
> “suppose” it is two different people?
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
> *From: *Cheri Mello 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, August 28, 2019 2:01 PM
> *To: *Azores Genealogy 
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please
>
>
>
> It depends on the record. At the baptism, the mother was not present (at
> least back in the day). So someone may not have remembered her middle name
> correctly. Or maybe she changed it for some reason. I make a timeline with
> all the records she is in and I weigh the evidence from there.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa and
> one of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her
> parents and grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that
> there are two Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina
> Umbelina and they are sisters or am I to think that her name is either
> Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> 
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Trnaslation help marriage

[Bill Seidler]

I see the date as you do.  

The groom is Francisco Fernandes son of Francisco Fernandes, deaceased, and 
his wife Maria de Mendonça?
The bride is Maria Dutra (Correia is not mentioned), widow of Gaspar João.  
You would have to find the first marriage to get her parents.

I did compare this with CITCEM and it appears to be what you are looking 
for.  CITCEM gives the brides name as Maria Dutra Correia and gives Gaspar 
João Afonso as her first husband who she married in Santa Barbara parish (I 
believe this is Cedros) on 18 Jan 1694.

Bill Seidler

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019 at 12:57:50 PM UTC-7, Lizmig wrote:
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719_item1/P85.html
>
> Bottom Left
> Could this be the marriage of Francisco Fernandes and Maria Dutra Correia  
> Oct 19, 1705?
> If so can you see or does it tell the parents names?
>
> Liz
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Thanks Cheri.  I’ve found this kind of thing many times and it drives me nutso 
trying to figure out who is who.  This changing or adding names seems to happen 
fairly frequently. G….  I guess in using the timeline, you can see if once 
the name is “changed” it stays changed and if not, one can “suppose” it is two 
different people?

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Cheri Mello
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 2:01 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

It depends on the record. At the baptism, the mother was not present (at least 
back in the day). So someone may not have remembered her middle name correctly. 
Or maybe she changed it for some reason. I make a timeline with all the records 
she is in and I weigh the evidence from there.
Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa and one 
of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her parents and 
grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that there are two 
Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina Umbelina and they are 
sisters or am I to think that her name is either Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or 
Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?  
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 


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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Life event certificates, that’s a new term for me.  Thanks for the additional 
explanation.  I learn so much from this group!  

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 1:57 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

Probably some family descendant asked for life event certificates in 2006 and 
the conservatory updated his original baptism record. 

A quarta, 28 de ago de 2019, 17:11, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 escreveu:
Angela;  I really appreciate you going back over this one for me.  Seems I had 
most things correct.  I find it really interesting that even after someone 
immigrated, the made notations on their birth records of the events in their 
lives.  I wonder if the individual came back and showed them proof of these 
events, well, obviously not the death or did the relatives give the information 
and proof.  In this case, it apparently was all done at the same time after the 
death of Luis.  Interesting…
 
Many thanks,
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 9:52 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto
 
1st side note: Basically says he married Rosa Brasil on the 11th of July 1891 
in Providence, Rhode Island.
(side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 
 
2rd side note: 1st wife, Rosa Brasil dies on 7 December 1912?
(side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 
 
3rd side note: Luis marries Umbelina Resendes in Rehoboth, Massachusetts on 
what date?? 
 (side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 
 
4th side note: Luis died on the 14th of February 1948
(side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 
 
All side notes show a different number/code, I think related to the info entry 
in the Conservatory system. 
 
A quarta, 28 de ago de 2019, 03:26, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 escreveu:
Angela, Ok, but; what is the 2nd side not about?  I can’t figure out that one 
at all and do you have any hints on what I’ve marked in red, below.
 
Thanks Angela, appreciate your help.
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:53 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto
 
Hi Sam,
 
All the sidenotes were added in 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, so at the end of each sidenote you see April 19 2006 
and Margarida Almeida's signature.
 
'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  escreveu no 
dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s) 01:44:
Right hand page.  #27.  I think I can read the first and the last side notes 
but; not sure about the middle two.
 
1st side note:  Basically says he married Rosa Brasil on the 11th of July 1891 
in Providence, Rhode Island.
 
Un-numbered side note: Something happened on the 27th of March 2006.  Did he 
become a U.S. citizen then?  It looks like something to do with civil rights??
 
2rd side note: 1st wife, Rosa Brasil dies on 7 December 1912?
 
3rd side note: Luis marries Umbelina Resendes in Rehoboth, Massachusetts on 
what date??  It can’t be in 2006 because he was already dead then, right?
 
4th side note:  Luis died on the 14th of February 1948.
 
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879_item1/P16.html
 
Thank you for helping me with this,
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

[Cheri Mello]

It depends on the record. At the baptism, the mother was not present (at
least back in the day). So someone may not have remembered her middle name
correctly. Or maybe she changed it for some reason. I make a timeline with
all the records she is in and I weigh the evidence from there.
Good luck,
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 12:53 PM 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa and
> one of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her
> parents and grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that
> there are two Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina
> Umbelina and they are sisters or am I to think that her name is either
> Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Trnaslation help marriage

[Elizabeth Migliori]

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719/FAL-HT-CEDROS-C-1687-1719_item1/P85.html

Bottom Left
Could this be the marriage of Francisco Fernandes and Maria Dutra Correia
Oct 19, 1705?
If so can you see or does it tell the parents names?

Liz

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

[Ângela Loura]

Probably some family descendant asked for life event certificates in 2006
and the conservatory updated his original baptism record.

A quarta, 28 de ago de 2019, 17:11, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> escreveu:

> Angela;  I really appreciate you going back over this one for me.  Seems I
> had most things correct.  I find it really interesting that even after
> someone immigrated, the made notations on their birth records of the events
> in their lives.  I wonder if the individual came back and showed them proof
> of these events, well, obviously not the death or did the relatives give
> the information and proof.  In this case, it apparently was all done at the
> same time after the death of Luis.  Interesting…
>
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
> *From: *Ângela Loura 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 27, 2019 9:52 PM
> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do
> Porto
>
>
>
> 1st side note: Basically says he married Rosa Brasil on the 11th of July
> 1891 in Providence, Rhode Island.
>
> (side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the *Conservatória do
> Registo Civil de Vila do Porto*, Margarida Almeida)
>
>
>
> 2rd side note: 1st wife, Rosa Brasil dies on 7 December 1912?
>
> (side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the *Conservatória do
> Registo Civil de Vila do Porto*, Margarida Almeida)
>
>
>
> 3rd side note: Luis marries Umbelina Resendes in Rehoboth, Massachusetts
> on what date??
>
>  (side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the *Conservatória do
> Registo Civil de Vila do Porto*, Margarida Almeida)
>
>
>
> 4th side note: Luis died on the 14th of February 1948
>
> (side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the *Conservatória do
> Registo Civil de Vila do Porto*, Margarida Almeida)
>
>
>
> All side notes show a different number/code, I think related to the info
> entry in the Conservatory system.
>
>
>
> A quarta, 28 de ago de 2019, 03:26, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy
>  escreveu:
>
> Angela, Ok, but; what is the 2nd side not about?  I can’t figure out that
> one at all and do you have any hints on what I’ve marked in red, below.
>
>
>
> Thanks Angela, appreciate your help.
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
> *From: *Ângela Loura 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:53 PM
> *To: *azores@googlegroups.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do
> Porto
>
>
>
> Hi Sam,
>
>
>
> All the sidenotes were added in 2006 by officer of the *Conservatória do
> Registo Civil de Vila do Porto*, so at the end of each sidenote you see
> April 19 2006 and Margarida Almeida's signature.
>
>
>
> 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  escreveu
> no dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s) 01:44:
>
> Right hand page.  #27.  I think I can read the first and the last side
> notes but; not sure about the middle two.
>
>
>
> 1st side note:  Basically says he married Rosa Brasil on the 11th of July
> 1891 in Providence, Rhode Island.
>
>
>
> Un-numbered side note: Something happened on the 27th of March 2006.  Did
> he become a U.S. citizen then?  It looks like something to do with civil
> rights??
>
>
>
> 2rd side note: 1st wife, Rosa Brasil dies on 7 December 1912?
>
>
>
> 3rd side note: Luis marries Umbelina Resendes in Rehoboth, Massachusetts
> on what date??  It can’t be in 2006 because he was already dead then,
> right?
>
>
>
> 4th side note:  Luis died on the 14th of February 1948.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879_item1/P16.html
>
>
>
> Thank you for helping me with this,
>
>
>
> Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> 
>
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> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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> 

[AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help please Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Is this side note showing someone dying on 17 Apr 1934.  Is it Maria 
d’Assumpacao Soares or her husband, Manoel de Sousa?  I show their marriage 
date as 10 Oct 1895 from their marriage record but; I don’t have the death date 
of either of them.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879_item1/P29.html

Appreciate the help,

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)



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[AZORES-Genealogy] Opinions please

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

If one record says the wife, mother, or  grandmother is Joaquina Rosa and one 
of the other records states her name as Joaquina Umbelina but; her parents and 
grandparents are the same in all records; am I to think that there are two 
Joaquinas. One is Joaquina Rosa and the other is Joaquina Umbelina and they are 
sisters or am I to think that her name is either Joaquina Rosa Umbelina or 
Joaquina Umbelina Rosa?  

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)



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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

['Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy]

Angela;  I really appreciate you going back over this one for me.  Seems I had 
most things correct.  I find it really interesting that even after someone 
immigrated, the made notations on their birth records of the events in their 
lives.  I wonder if the individual came back and showed them proof of these 
events, well, obviously not the death or did the relatives give the information 
and proof.  In this case, it apparently was all done at the same time after the 
death of Luis.  Interesting…

Many thanks,

Sam (Mazatlán, MX)

From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 9:52 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto

1st side note: Basically says he married Rosa Brasil on the 11th of July 1891 
in Providence, Rhode Island.
(side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 

2rd side note: 1st wife, Rosa Brasil dies on 7 December 1912?
(side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 

3rd side note: Luis marries Umbelina Resendes in Rehoboth, Massachusetts on 
what date?? 
 (side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 

4th side note: Luis died on the 14th of February 1948
(side note added in April 19 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, Margarida Almeida) 

All side notes show a different number/code, I think related to the info entry 
in the Conservatory system. 

A quarta, 28 de ago de 2019, 03:26, 'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy 
 escreveu:
Angela, Ok, but; what is the 2nd side not about?  I can’t figure out that one 
at all and do you have any hints on what I’ve marked in red, below.
 
Thanks Angela, appreciate your help.
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
From: Ângela Loura
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2019 7:53 PM
To: azores@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Side note help, 1870 Sao Pedro, Vila do Porto
 
Hi Sam,
 
All the sidenotes were added in 2006 by officer of the Conservatória do Registo 
Civil de Vila do Porto, so at the end of each sidenote you see April 19 2006 
and Margarida Almeida's signature.
 
'Sam (Camas, WA)' via Azores Genealogy  escreveu no 
dia quarta, 28/08/2019 à(s) 01:44:
Right hand page.  #27.  I think I can read the first and the last side notes 
but; not sure about the middle two.
 
1st side note:  Basically says he married Rosa Brasil on the 11th of July 1891 
in Providence, Rhode Island.
 
Un-numbered side note: Something happened on the 27th of March 2006.  Did he 
become a U.S. citizen then?  It looks like something to do with civil rights??
 
2rd side note: 1st wife, Rosa Brasil dies on 7 December 1912?
 
3rd side note: Luis marries Umbelina Resendes in Rehoboth, Massachusetts on 
what date??  It can’t be in 2006 because he was already dead then, right?
 
4th side note:  Luis died on the 14th of February 1948.
 
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879/SMA-VP-SAOPEDRO-B-1870-1879_item1/P16.html
 
Thank you for helping me with this,
 
Sam (Mazatlán, MX)
 
 

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