[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Matrix in Santa Maria

[Bill Seidler]

A Igreja Matriz de Nossa Senhora da Assunção

Bill Seidler

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 7:24:00 PM UTC-8, Maria wrote:
>
> What’s the Matrix in Santa Maria, please?  I’m having a “senior moment”. 
> Thanks 
>
> Sent from my iPhone

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Matrix in Santa Maria

[Maria Lima]

What’s the Matrix in Santa Maria, please?  I’m having a “senior moment”. Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

[Cheri Mello]

I looked up a calendar for 1849 and yes, Lent would have been from 22
February and 8 April (Easter Sunday). You couldn't marry during Lent.
However, it didn't matter where you married, as the marriage banns had to
be posted at both the bride and groom's home churches. Maybe they moved
around trying to conceive her pregnancy (that's a bit expensive), but a
possibility.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 12:00 PM linda  wrote:

>
> Probably this is the source for that info in the database about the
> Gazelle, 1870:
>
>
> https://www.worldcat.org/title/logbook-of-the-ship-gazelle-1870-oct-26-1872-nov-28/oclc/71254679=brief_results
>
> I can't see where the logbook itself is held, but it must still exist.
>
> It seems that the whaling museum has a logbook database in an excel file
> (hope this link will work):
>
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=16=2ahUKEwik0OSjx6TnAhWhna0KHcvrA3AQFjAPegQIAxAB=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.whalingmuseum.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FDocuments%2FLogbook%2520Database%2520Master_web.xls=AOvVaw3aUTqkSiGAaEq18He9SVHv
>
> It comes up near the top of a google search on the terms
>
> ship seconet logbook 1855
>
> I have to run, but hope this provides a lead.
>
> :)
>
> Linda
>
> On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>
>> Sorry but in my memory I co-mingled some whaling crew entries.  There are
>> many Francis Joseph, Francisco Jose, or other iterations in the whaling
>> crew database.  Many can be eliminated by age or residence.  I also
>> eliminated any entry before 1855 since he was listed as a carpenter and not
>> a mariner his son's baptisms that year.  That left several that didn't have
>> enough data to be eliminated, but two that had additional data consistent
>> with being my Francisco Jose.  It was these two I co-mingled.  First was
>> 1855 on the Ship Seconet who was listed as a COOPER but it did not give his
>> age or residence.  A cooper would be consistent with Francisco Jose being a
>> carpenter and with Francis Joseph in New Zealand being a cooper.  The
>> second was a Francis Joseph on the Bark Gazelle in 1870 which gives his age
>> as 43 and his residence as Sao Jorge, Azores.  Either or both of these
>> could fit (or not) my wife's ancestor.
>>
>> Bill Seidler
>>
>> On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 11:57:57 AM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Linda, your insight is always appreciated and helpful.  Sorry
>>> for the delay in responding.  You are correct that I search for an Azorean
>>> obit for him.  I looked through 1911 in Urzelina where he last lived and in
>>> Praia, Graciosa where he was born.  The DNA evidence coupled with the name
>>> and occupation circumstance seems very compelling.  Another coincidence is
>>> that the New Bedford Whaling Museum database show that the was a crew
>>> member on a Whaler in 1867 named Francisco Jose Cordeiro from Sao Jorge,
>>> Azores, whose job was "cooper".
>>>
>>> Attached are timelines of what I have for him in the Azores and what
>>> Tony (my New Zealand contact) provided from his records.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Bill
>>>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

[linda]

Probably this is the source for that info in the database about the 
Gazelle, 1870:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/logbook-of-the-ship-gazelle-1870-oct-26-1872-nov-28/oclc/71254679=brief_results

I can't see where the logbook itself is held, but it must still exist.

It seems that the whaling museum has a logbook database in an excel file 
(hope this link will work):

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=16=2ahUKEwik0OSjx6TnAhWhna0KHcvrA3AQFjAPegQIAxAB=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.whalingmuseum.org%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FDocuments%2FLogbook%2520Database%2520Master_web.xls=AOvVaw3aUTqkSiGAaEq18He9SVHv

It comes up near the top of a google search on the terms 

ship seconet logbook 1855

I have to run, but hope this provides a lead.  

:)

Linda

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 11:33:02 AM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Sorry but in my memory I co-mingled some whaling crew entries.  There are 
> many Francis Joseph, Francisco Jose, or other iterations in the whaling 
> crew database.  Many can be eliminated by age or residence.  I also 
> eliminated any entry before 1855 since he was listed as a carpenter and not 
> a mariner his son's baptisms that year.  That left several that didn't have 
> enough data to be eliminated, but two that had additional data consistent 
> with being my Francisco Jose.  It was these two I co-mingled.  First was 
> 1855 on the Ship Seconet who was listed as a COOPER but it did not give his 
> age or residence.  A cooper would be consistent with Francisco Jose being a 
> carpenter and with Francis Joseph in New Zealand being a cooper.  The 
> second was a Francis Joseph on the Bark Gazelle in 1870 which gives his age 
> as 43 and his residence as Sao Jorge, Azores.  Either or both of these 
> could fit (or not) my wife's ancestor.
>
> Bill Seidler
>
> On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 11:57:57 AM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Linda, your insight is always appreciated and helpful.  Sorry 
>> for the delay in responding.  You are correct that I search for an Azorean 
>> obit for him.  I looked through 1911 in Urzelina where he last lived and in 
>> Praia, Graciosa where he was born.  The DNA evidence coupled with the name 
>> and occupation circumstance seems very compelling.  Another coincidence is 
>> that the New Bedford Whaling Museum database show that the was a crew 
>> member on a Whaler in 1867 named Francisco Jose Cordeiro from Sao Jorge, 
>> Azores, whose job was "cooper".
>>
>> Attached are timelines of what I have for him in the Azores and what Tony 
>> (my New Zealand contact) provided from his records.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Bill
>>
>>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

[Bill Seidler]

Sorry but in my memory I co-mingled some whaling crew entries.  There are 
many Francis Joseph, Francisco Jose, or other iterations in the whaling 
crew database.  Many can be eliminated by age or residence.  I also 
eliminated any entry before 1855 since he was listed as a carpenter and not 
a mariner his son's baptisms that year.  That left several that didn't have 
enough data to be eliminated, but two that had additional data consistent 
with being my Francisco Jose.  It was these two I co-mingled.  First was 
1855 on the Ship Seconet who was listed as a COOPER but it did not give his 
age or residence.  A cooper would be consistent with Francisco Jose being a 
carpenter and with Francis Joseph in New Zealand being a cooper.  The 
second was a Francis Joseph on the Bark Gazelle in 1870 which gives his age 
as 43 and his residence as Sao Jorge, Azores.  Either or both of these 
could fit (or not) my wife's ancestor.

Bill Seidler

On Wednesday, January 22, 2020 at 11:57:57 AM UTC-8, Bill Seidler wrote:
>
> Thank you Linda, your insight is always appreciated and helpful.  Sorry 
> for the delay in responding.  You are correct that I search for an Azorean 
> obit for him.  I looked through 1911 in Urzelina where he last lived and in 
> Praia, Graciosa where he was born.  The DNA evidence coupled with the name 
> and occupation circumstance seems very compelling.  Another coincidence is 
> that the New Bedford Whaling Museum database show that the was a crew 
> member on a Whaler in 1867 named Francisco Jose Cordeiro from Sao Jorge, 
> Azores, whose job was "cooper".
>
> Attached are timelines of what I have for him in the Azores and what Tony 
> (my New Zealand contact) provided from his records.
>
> Thanks again,
> Bill
>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage certificate.

[Nancy Couto]

Dear Rob,

I found a listing for Jose Antonio (b. before 1795) married to Antonia Maria on 
the Cabral Genealogies website. On this site people are listed last name first, 
with no punctuation after the surname. So these people are Antonio Jose married 
to Maria Antonia. The “Antonia” could be a typo or a misreading, or the name 
could have been spelled with an “a” at the end. I haven’t checked this out, but 
the owner of this website has proven to be reliable and her information comes 
from church records. The time frame could work out, since Antonio Josephs (the 
son) was 40 at the time of his marriage in 1868. 

http://www.cabralgenealogy.org/getperson.php?personID=I570=Cabral

Hope this helps.

Nancy 


> On Jan 27, 2020, at 4:00 AM, Rob Whaite  wrote:
> 
> Hi Cheri
> 
> I attach another Australian Marriage certificate also from Victoria.
> 
> The one I refer to is the marriage of Antonio Josephs and Eliza Smith in 1868.
> 
> I think his real surname was Joaquime as he was living in the same general 
> area as three of his cousins who all came out here together and that was the 
> name shown on the passenger list.
> 
> When you look at the entries for the names of his parents I find it strange 
> that his mother's surname was the same as his father's christian name?
> 
> It appears to me that he made it all up as he went along in his attempt to 
> anglicize his surname?
> 
> Any ideas would be appreciated
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
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>  
> .
> 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Help deciphering Inventário...

[Scott Edward Anderson]

Olá amigos e amigas, 

I have a few pages from an Inventário for my 4th great-grandmother that I need 
some help with; specifically, deciphering some of the language around her house 
and quinta in Fajã de Cima, São Miguel.

However, the Archive said expressly not to post the Inventários on the Internet 
or social media. So, I’m wondering whether someone here could take a look at 
these few pages and let me know what you think? I will email it to you 
privately, if you provide an email address.

Obrigado,

Scott

-- 
Scott Edward Anderson
phone: 215-384-6884
email: greenskep...@gmail.com
twitter: greenskeptic
Check out my new books:
Falling Up: A Memoir of Second Chances -- now available from Homebound 
Publications
and Dwelling: an ecopoem -- available from Shanti Arts


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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Marriage certificate.

[Cheri Mello]

The 2nd marriage on the page #1047, is what I am looking at, right?

The groom is the son of Antonio Josephs and Mary Antonio. So over there it
would be Antonio Jose and Maria Antonio. More likely she is Maria ___.
It's 1868 and in that time period, women did not have surnames, so the
groom may be taking his best guess as to what her "maiden name" may be.
I've seen Antonio as a surname here or there.

Joaquim as a surname does happen, but it's kinda like seeing the surname
Antonio. Both are given names and for some reason, the family tacked on
that given name as a surname to differentiate themselves.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente,
Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 8:15 AM Rob Whaite  wrote:

> Hi Cheri
>
> I attach another Australian Marriage certificate also from Victoria.
>
> The one I refer to is the marriage of Antonio Josephs and Eliza Smith in
> 1868.
>
> I think his real surname was Joaquime as he was living in the same general
> area as three of his cousins who all came out here together and that was
> the name shown on the passenger list.
>
> When you look at the entries for the names of his parents I find it
> strange that his mother's surname was the same as his father's christian
> name?
>
> It appears to me that he made it all up as he went along in his attempt to
> anglicize his surname?
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated
>
> Rob
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: My book

[Brian Margarit]

I'll be printing it out for my family but I have it in a PDF on a google 
drive.  If anyone is interested I can send you the drive link.  Send me an 
email at bmarga...@shaw.ca

On Friday, 24 January 2020 20:55:56 UTC-6, Cheri Mello wrote:
>
> Brian M,
> Are you printing it or sharing it?
>
> Printing: 40 pages - Try your local Staples, Office Depot, or the like.
>
> Sharing it via the cloud - try Google Drive, Dropbox, One Cloud, Blaze or 
> the like.
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, 
> Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 6:53 PM Brian Margarit  > wrote:
>
>> By resource sharing, I mean a database or drive for the group etc to 
>> upload data
>>
>> On Friday, 24 January 2020 14:09:20 UTC-5, Brian Margarit wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> General question.  Is there a resource-sharing site for published trees? 
>>> I'm just putting the finishing touches on my tree after 5 years of research 
>>> and am self-publishing it for my family.  I'd like to give it to anyone 
>>> that'd like it or send it to an archivist, genealogist etc.  There are over 
>>> 100 photos attached to it ranging from 19thC - Present, plus citations and 
>>> photos of the source material. 
>>>
>>> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>>>
>>> Significant surnames in it:  Noronha, Homen, Soares, Dias, Cordeiro, 
>>> Brasil, Mendonca, Sequiera (Graciosa, Terceira & Sao Jorge)
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

[Brian Margarit]

Hey Linda,

I appreciate you looking into it!

The running story in our family was that no one on Graciosa would marry 
them (whatever that means) and she was indeed pregnant at the time.  With 
Graciosa being so insular and small, it's a very convincing theory that 
they may have had to leave

On Sunday, 26 January 2020 22:11:35 UTC-6, linda wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Bill S. and Brian M.,
>
> I enjoyed spending some time last week looking at your records and 
> thinking about this couple.  To help me envision where they were in their 
> first years together, I printed out a map and added some arrows.
>
>
> (I can't seem to attach or insert the map... try this: 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AEyfltgiF106yoPM1awIJEuUM4JKCHM2 )
>
> According to their (self-reported) marriage record:
>
> 1847: Maria was in Urzelina; Francisco was on Graciosa
> 1848: Maria was in Urzelina: Francisco was on Graciosa
> 1849: Maria was in Ponta Delgada; Francisco was in Ponta Delgada
>
> Lent in 1849 was between 22 February and 8 Easter (give or take a day-- 
> the date conversion program I used had a problem plotting the 19th dates on 
> the calendar)
> Maria's conception date was probably between 21 to 28 March 1849 (using 
> Manuel's birth/baptismal dates and assuming the pregnancy carried to a 
> normal term)
>
> So, Maria and Francisco conceived their first child during Lent in 1849.  
> According to their marriage record, that Lenten season they were both in 
> Ponta Delgada (economic migration?).
>
> But, it crossed my mind to wonder if the couple went to Ponta Delgada -- 
> the largest town on the most populous island-- to mitigate the scandal of a 
> hasty marriage and a very "short" pregnancy.   Maria would have realized 
> and become certain that she was pregnant in April/May.  The marriage would 
> then have had to have been arranged between late April and late June/early 
> July because the marriage banns would have been read at the end of June or 
> beginning of July before they were able to wed. 
>
> Utter speculation, but I enjoyed thinking about it, and I hope you don't 
> mind me gossiping about them.  No disrespect intended.
>
> best wishes,
>
> Linda 
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 24, 2020 at 11:09:31 AM UTC-8, Brian Margarit wrote:
>>
>> I forgot to mention - Maria was pregnant at the time of her marriage.  
>> The Ponta Delgado locale, I've always assumed, is because the priest in 
>> Guadalupe wouldnt marry them because of that.  Who knows, though.
>>
>> On Friday, 24 January 2020 13:03:25 UTC-5, Brian Margarit wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
>>> I wish I could've seen this sooner.
>>>
>>> I'm still in the process of getting everything together on MyHeritage 
>>> and can let you know so you can match up.
>>>
>>> I have a very abridged timeline for you since I know you have a lot of 
>>> this information.  This is just base facts for you.
>>>
>>> Carpenter
>>> Born in 1828 (Santa Cruz) died 1887 (Urzelina)
>>>
>>> Married Maria Isabel in Ponta Delgado 1849 but they lived in Santa Cruz 
>>> still.  My grandmother said it was "because no one could marry them on the 
>>> island".  That's the extent of the reasoning that I know or have found.
>>>
>>> Lean crops & small famine in Graciosa and death of their son Joao as a 
>>> result, prompted their move to Sao Jorge.  The family lore is that they 
>>> were supposed to go to Faial, but couldn't for some reason.  
>>>
>>> Francisco dies in 1887, Urzelina.  My aunt has two photos from 1910 of 
>>> his gravestone in Sao Mateus cemetery, as well as another Cordeiro that 
>>> I've never been able to make out the first name or dates for. 
>>>
>>> I don't have any information of a Francis Cordeiro, he's not in the 
>>> records I have of the family.   
>>>
>>> If you have any more questions, you know how to reach me.  I'll be going 
>>> to Sao Jorge, Graciosa and Terceira in two months and will be covering all 
>>> parishes.
>>>
>>> - Brian
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 22 January 2020 22:31:49 UTC-5, Mara wrote:

 Hello Bill,

 Here is the information:

 Biblioteca Pública e Arquivo Regional de Angra do Heroísmo - ilhas 
 Terceira, Graciosa e São Jorge | 

 Endereço eletrónico: bparah.arqu...@azores.gov.pt

 Margaret v

 *From: *Bill Seidler
 *Sent: *January 22, 2020 10:08 PM
 *To: *Azores Genealogy
 *Subject: *Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Tracing Francisco José Cordeiro

  

 Hello Margaret, once again thank you very much.  

  

 I am strongly leaning toward concluding that Francis and Francisco are 
 the same person, but I would like to feel I have eliminated other 
 possibilities to whatever extent possible. 

  

 I am hoping to visit Terceira and São Jorge later this year, but just 
 in case I don't make it, can you tell me how I might order a copy of the 
 inventory? 

  

 Bill 

  

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