Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
I'm not sure what happened to my reply from yesterday, however, what I said was correct; I meant Arcanjo Sao Miguel. As you know, half of my family is from Ponta Garca, and, the other half is from Ribeira Quente. Previously, when there were ceremonies held in Apostolo Sao Paulo (RQ) while it was an ermida, the record referred to Nossa Senhora da Piedade, as the Paroquia which ASP was subordinate to - until I found other records that referred to ASM... Granted that these records were quite early in the 17th century - possibly before NSdP was actually built, and, that may account for the discrepancy. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
ASP?? What's that? A typo for ASAP? As Soon As Possible?? No clue what ASM is...something about music? Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
Cheri ASP, Apóstolo São Paulo Ribeira Quente as Dano wrote -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
No, Dano wrote, Apostolo São Paulo (RQ). I expected to see him reference to RQ and didn't see any explanation for the ASP acronym. Another reason not to use acronyms. And another reason for me not to read or answer emails before breakfast or before the caffeine kicks in! LOL Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
I am confused -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
Hello friends, I am sorry I cant find for now anything in English but this is the Oficial website of the Freguesia da Matriz in Ribeira Grande Council. I think there may be more in Azores. http://www.jfmatriz.com/ On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:12 AM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: I've never heard anyone say I'm from the Matriz either. I concur on that. In my Ribeira Quente research, I found all my ancestors from Ponta Garca. Are you sure you meant Sao Miguel Arcanjo? Maybe it's in a different time period. I know Ribeira das Tainhas was under Sao Miguel Arcanjo. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
Cheri, you're correct that most of the ceremonies held at Apostolo São Paulo (RQ), before it was elevated to church status, read that it was subordinate to Nossa Senhora da Piedade. However, there was an earlier period, prior to Nossa Senhora da Piedade (17th century) being elevated to church status, when both PG and RQ were the jurisdiction of Arcanjo Sao Miguel (VFdC). When I came across a record that specifically said that, I thought it was a mistake, but, I found other records that read the same. Undoubtedly, other researchers have experienced a similar circumstance. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
Hi everyone, I also found this one: http://freguesiamatriz.pt/ Ângela Loura 2013/12/17 Ricardo Chaves chave...@gmail.com Hello friends, I am sorry I cant find for now anything in English but this is the Oficial website of the Freguesia da Matriz in Ribeira Grande Council. I think there may be more in Azores. http://www.jfmatriz.com/ On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:12 AM, Cheri Mello gfsche...@gmail.com wrote: I've never heard anyone say I'm from the Matriz either. I concur on that. In my Ribeira Quente research, I found all my ancestors from Ponta Garca. Are you sure you meant Sao Miguel Arcanjo? Maybe it's in a different time period. I know Ribeira das Tainhas was under Sao Miguel Arcanjo. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- Ricardo Chaves -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
Cheri, it looks like everyone is confused! In all of the time that I've been researching the Azores (more than some and less than others), I have never come across a jurisdiction referred to as Matriz-Civil. The name of the Civil Registry is just as one would expect it to be, Registro Civil. Matriz is a Church term meaning Mother Church. It dates back to before parishes (freguesias) were assigned to a particular conselho. For many years the freguesia of São Paulo in Ribeira Quente was under the jurisdiction Arcanjo Sao Miguel da Villa Franca - although geographically, it fell within the boundaries of Povoacao. The same held true for a number of other parishes that were under the jurisdiction of Divino Espírito Santo in Maia, Nossa Senhora da Estrella, in Ribeira Grande, or Sao Jorge, in Nordeste. Some of those parishes eventually ended up in those other Conselhos - while others did not. -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
I've never heard anyone say I'm from the Matriz either. I concur on that. In my Ribeira Quente research, I found all my ancestors from Ponta Garca. Are you sure you meant Sao Miguel Arcanjo? Maybe it's in a different time period. I know Ribeira das Tainhas was under Sao Miguel Arcanjo. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Matriz and the council
Joao C. Ventura said: They're not inconsistent. The problem is yours, actually: you're confusing the church parish with the freguesia civil (translated roughly as civil parish). The CCA site uses the official name of the freguesia.. Which in most cases, as they were created in 1911 as one-to-one mapping of the church parishes, used the same name of the catholic parish.. In some cases not, as in this Matriz / São Sebastião case. OK, let me try to straighten myself out. If I'm not doing this right, then feel free to straighten me out! :) They are calling some of these places Matriz. Santa Maria island (only 1): Vila do Porto The Matriz is Nossa Senhora da Assuncao in Vila do Porto. CCA not up yet. Sao Miguel island (6 Matriz') Lagoa The Matriz is Santa Cruz in Lagoa. The CCA listing says Matriz de Santa Cruz Nordeste The Matriz is Sao Jorge in Nordeste The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Ponta Delgada The Matriz is Sao Sebastiao in Ponta Delgada The CCA listing says Matriz de Sao Sebastiao Povoacao The Matriz is Nossa Senhora Mae de Deus in Povoacao The CCA listing says Matriz de Mae de Deus Ribeira Grande The Matriz is Nossa Senhora da Estrela in Ribeira Grande CCA not up yet. Vila Franca do Campo The Matriz is Sao Miguel Arcanjo in Vila Franca do Campo CCA not up yet. Terceira island (2 Matriz') Angra do Heroismo Santa Se do Salvador or Sao Salvador which is really the Diocese seat in Angra do Heroismo. So I guess technically there is no Matriz here. The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz or a Diocese or a cathedral. Praia da Vitoria The Matriz is Santa Cruz in Praia da Vitoria The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Graciosa island (only 1) The Matriz is Santa Cruz in Santa Cruz CCA not up yet Sao Jorge island (2 Matriz') Calheta The Matriz Santa Catarina in Calheta. The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Velas The Matriz is Sao Jorge in Velas The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Faial island (1 Matriz) The Matriz is Sao Salvador in Horta The CCA listing says Matriz da Horta Pico island (3 Matriz') Lajes (do Pico) The Matriz is Santissima Trindade in Lajes The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Madalena The Matriz is Santa Maria Madalena in Madalena The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Sao Roque The Matriz is Sao Roque in Sao Roque The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Flores island (2 Matriz') Lajes (do Flores) The Matriz is Nossa Senhora do Rosario in Lajes The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Santa Cruz (das Flores) The Matriz is Nossa Senhora da Conceicao in Santa Cruz The CCA listing says nothing about a Matriz Corvo island There's only 1 church there. Nossa Senhora dos Milagres in Vila Nova. I don't think it holds Matriz status. The CCA says nothing about it either. OK, so why does the CCA list Lagoa, Ponta Delgada, Povoacao, and Faial under M for Matriz but then lists Nordeste (Sao Jorge), Angra (Sao Salvador), Praia (Santa Cruz), Calheta (Santa Catarina), Velas (Sao Jorge), Lajes do Pico (Santissima Trindade), Santa Maria Madalena, Sao Roque (both on Pico), and N.S. do Rosario and N.S. da Conceicao (both on Flores) under the names instead of Matriz? OK, where am I confused? Straighten me out here :) To me, it looks like the CCA is confused. Well, I know that they are not. This project had been under different directors so the uploading of the records may have changed with the directors. If most concelhos have a Matriz, why aren't they putting those as Matriz de _ on all the concelhos that have an official Matriz? Or putting the name (whether civil or ecclesiastical - but I think they use civil). Technically, isn't Matriz an ecclesiastical thing? Thanks! Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Azores Genealogy group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
