Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with reading a marriage record Raposo, Mosteiros
Cheri, I understand what you mean. You probably noticed the "Manual" spelling throughout the book. I appreciate what Demello did by indexing these records, but I always go to the original because he made little errors. Also, some might not realized that just because an entry appears in Demello's book that the family actually came to Hawaii. I've found people that did not go to Hawaii, but years later went to Massachusetts. I do not see where he got "deceased" and I have to try to figure out why Manoel Raposo, himself, listed his father as having the same name as him. For that manner, why he and his alleged brother took the surnames Raposo. If they are brothers, it is confusing that at the same time Manoel named a father in his passport, Francisco Raposo listed his as Pai Incognito. If only our ancestors kept diaries! On Sunday, June 29, 2014 8:58:30 AM UTC-7, Cheri Mello wrote: > > I'm not knocking Bob De Mello, but at the time he did his passaportes to > Hawaii book, he made some assumptions that he carried throughout the book. > I don't think his grasp of the Portuguese language was all that good. So > he may have assumed that no father listed meant that the father had died. > > So unless you can find your Manuel leaving the Azores in the Azorean > passaportes, I'd really question the father being deceased. They always > named the father and then said deceased after his name. > > Cheri Mello > Listowner, Azores-Gen > Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das > Tainhas, Achada > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with reading a marriage record Raposo, Mosteiros
I'm not knocking Bob De Mello, but at the time he did his passaportes to Hawaii book, he made some assumptions that he carried throughout the book. I don't think his grasp of the Portuguese language was all that good. So he may have assumed that no father listed meant that the father had died. So unless you can find your Manuel leaving the Azores in the Azorean passaportes, I'd really question the father being deceased. They always named the father and then said deceased after his name. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with reading a marriage record Raposo, Mosteiros
JR, Thanks for the translation and going the extra mile to get the baptismal for Manoel Raposo. I was guessing Ignacio or Innocencio for the wife's father's surname on the marriage. This priest had an odd way of not connecting the bottom of his letters. The baptismal is helpful. It is curious that she is listed as unwed but without the Pai Incognito (or even that phrase with sabido which I saw a little in the records of Achada). I am still trying to figure out how Robert Demello got "deceased" for Manoel Raposo's father (I am referring to Demello's passport index book for the Azores). I looked at the passport entry and it does not infer living or dead for the father. I am going to search for the baptismals of Manoel Raposo's children. I know there were at least 3 born before they left for Hawaii. As you said, there might be more of the story there. Thanks again! On Saturday, June 28, 2014 9:32:29 PM UTC-7, JR wrote: > > And here is your answer: > > Manoel, born- Jan 25- 1846, bap- Feb 9- 1846, Padrinhos- Manoel da Costa e > sua mulher Maria Jacinta. Interestingly enough, the record still does not > say the father of Manuel is unknown. But it does say Maria Jacinta is > single, native of Mosteiros and the daughter of Maria Francisca, deceased > and father unknown. > Certified March 28-1882 bu cura Oliveira > > Go for the baptisms of the children of Manoel Raposo with Maria Albina de > Jesus. You may get more info. > > JR > > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-B-1843-1855/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-B-1843-1855_item1/P43.html > >> >> -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with reading a marriage record Raposo, Mosteiros
And here is your answer: Manoel, born- Jan 25- 1846, bap- Feb 9- 1846, Padrinhos- Manoel da Costa e sua mulher Maria Jacinta. Interestingly enough, the record still does not say the father of Manuel is unknown. But it does say Maria Jacinta is single, native of Mosteiros and the daughter of Maria Francisca, deceased and father unknown. Certified March 28-1882 bu cura Oliveira Go for the baptisms of the children of Manoel Raposo with Maria Albina de Jesus. You may get more info. JR http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-B-1843-1855/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-B-1843-1855_item1/P43.html On Sunday, June 29, 2014 12:09:20 AM UTC-4, JR wrote: > > In Conceicao, Mosteiros, Jan 16- 1870, married Manoel Raposo with Maria > Albina de Jesus; He is, 24 yrs old, single, campaneo, native of fraguesia > de Conceicao, place of Mosteiros, baptised and resident of same place, > natural son of Maria Jacintha, baptised in said place of Mosteiros; and she > is 19 yrs old, single, domestic, native and baptised in fraguesia de Sao > Sebastiao, Ginetes, and resident of same place, daughter of Manoel Ignacio > (possibly Innocencio) native of said Sao Sebastiao (Ginetes and Albina > Rosa, native of matriz Sao Sebastiao de Ponta Delgada. > > The priest sometimes used the term natural child for an unwed mother. The > father may or may not be known. You can try finding a baptism for a child > of this couple and it may further explain her status. Alternatively, you > can look up the baptism of Manuel Raposo, whose birthdate is known. > > JR > > On Saturday, June 28, 2014 5:13:14 PM UTC-4, IslandRoutes wrote: >> >> I'm doing some research for my cousin and have found her great >> grandparent's marriage record in Mosteiros. Can someone help me with the >> names on this record. I can read the information about the groom, but I >> can't make out the bride's father's surname and the bride's mother's name? >> I can make out Manoel __ and the Rosa (it's either >> Maria or Albina?) >> >> The entry in question is at the top, left hand side (first part is on the >> previous page). >> >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879_item1/P4.html >> >> Also, a separate question. It says that Manoel Raposo is "filho natural" >> of Maria Jacintha. But, there is no Pai Incognito. Does this mean >> something or did the person writing the record just leave off the Pai >> Incognito part? (Or is it there on page 1 but I can't find it?) The >> reason I ask is this person has a passport to Hawaii, 1882, I believe. The >> record says that his father's name was the same as his. Then, Robert >> Demello in his index book put "dead" instead of the father's name. Just >> trying to sort out any clues as he was supposed to have a brother named >> Francisco, who I have found and the father in his marriage record and >> passport are clearly "pai incognito" (We are still establishing if the two >> men are brothers) >> Part 1 of the record (bottom, right hand side) >> >> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879_item1/P3.html >> >> This person's handwriting has really given me fits! >> >> Thanks for the help, >> Mel >> >> -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with reading a marriage record Raposo, Mosteiros
In Conceicao, Mosteiros, Jan 16- 1870, married Manoel Raposo with Maria Albina de Jesus; He is, 24 yrs old, single, campaneo, native of fraguesia de Conceicao, place of Mosteiros, baptised and resident of same place, natural son of Maria Jacintha, baptised in said place of Mosteiros; and she is 19 yrs old, single, domestic, native and baptised in fraguesia de Sao Sebastiao, Ginetes, and resident of same place, daughter of Manoel Ignacio (possibly Innocencio) native of said Sao Sebastiao (Ginetes and Albina Rosa, native of matriz Sao Sebastiao de Ponta Delgada. The priest sometimes used the term natural child for an unwed mother. The father may or may not be known. You can try finding a baptism for a child of this couple and it may further explain her status. Alternatively, you can look up the baptism of Manuel Raposo, whose birthdate is known. JR On Saturday, June 28, 2014 5:13:14 PM UTC-4, IslandRoutes wrote: > > I'm doing some research for my cousin and have found her great > grandparent's marriage record in Mosteiros. Can someone help me with the > names on this record. I can read the information about the groom, but I > can't make out the bride's father's surname and the bride's mother's name? > I can make out Manoel __ and the Rosa (it's either > Maria or Albina?) > > The entry in question is at the top, left hand side (first part is on the > previous page). > > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879_item1/P4.html > > Also, a separate question. It says that Manoel Raposo is "filho natural" > of Maria Jacintha. But, there is no Pai Incognito. Does this mean > something or did the person writing the record just leave off the Pai > Incognito part? (Or is it there on page 1 but I can't find it?) The > reason I ask is this person has a passport to Hawaii, 1882, I believe. The > record says that his father's name was the same as his. Then, Robert > Demello in his index book put "dead" instead of the father's name. Just > trying to sort out any clues as he was supposed to have a brother named > Francisco, who I have found and the father in his marriage record and > passport are clearly "pai incognito" (We are still establishing if the two > men are brothers) > Part 1 of the record (bottom, right hand side) > > http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1870-1879_item1/P3.html > > This person's handwriting has really given me fits! > > Thanks for the help, > Mel > > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.
