[backstage] Hack Day 2008, let's all get Mashed...
From the backstage blog http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/news/archives/2008/01/hack_day_2008_o.html So last year the BBC and Yahoo! ran the stunningly cool Hack Day London. It was a brilliant success, and frankly I¹ve been biting at the bit to organise another one. Last week I got the nod from Ashley Highfield that the budget had been cleared and we could run another one! It¹s very early days yet, but so far we know that it¹s going to be late June, venue to be decided and we¹re looking for other people to work with. Obviously we worked with Yahoo! last year (who¹s idea Hack Day is) - and this year we want to work with as many people as possible. I think the only major change will be that we plan to run some kind of conference on the Friday before the weekend event and that we wont be having a massive band on the Sunday night - rather we¹ll be doing something (and this is s cool) on the Saturday night. Oh one last thing we¹re changing the name this year to avoid any confusion henceforth it¹ll be called Mashed.More news as the planning progresses. m ___ Matthew Cashmore Development Producer BBC Future Media Technology, Research and Innovation BC4A5, Broadcast Centre, Media Village, W12 7TP T:020 8008 3959(02 83959) M:07711 913241(072 83959)
Re: [backstage] BBC TWO Programme timings
My cheapo Freeview PVR has an option to record a number of minutes either side of a programme. That works for me. J -- Jason Cartwright Web Specialist, EMEA Marketing [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44(0)2070313161 On Jan 22, 2008 1:59 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small question. There are a number of occasions where the schedule on channels is NEVER as published! A good example the 10pm-10:30pm slot on BBC TWO. Programmes in this slot actually start never earlier than 10:02pm and usually end at 10:32pm, with Newsnight starting at 10:33pm. The schedule is shown in the newspapers, on the BBC site, and (most importantly) fed to EPG (ie, Sky's and the one used by Windows Media Center) always says 10pm-10:30pm for whatever programme is on. Obviously the late start is because people often watch the news headlines on BBC ONE and then turn over to 'TWO for some entertainment, thus the delayed start. Also, the junction between the end of the regional news on BBC ONE matches the start of Newsnight, which also makes sense. I can understand for humans using the EPG, 10pm-10:30pm is good enough, but if you PVR anything (Sky+, Freeview Playback, WMC) in this slot you get an overrun from the previous programme and miss the end. Can something be done with the source data to fix this?
Re: [backstage] RTMP stream URL resolving script
On 22/01/2008, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any chance you could stop with the accusations of dishonesty? Any chance you could actually answer the questions I asked? And if I seem to be a bit annoyed I am. I spent quite a bit of time writing something and now it looks like it is useless because It was told FLV/RTMP was like PDF and thus I assumed there would be an easy way of reading/playing it in Java. I can not find a simple, suitably licensed way of doing this. (suggestions welcome). (JMF does not appear to support the BBCs choice of Adobe Formats). Oddly if the BBC had used the more traditional method of streaming I could have at least fetched it over HTTP (which is reasonably trivial in Java) and then tried to run it through something like mPlayer. And even if I did find a way of doing it in Java it would most likely not work on anything mobile due to the lack of hardware support for the format. The worst thing is the BBC is using these protocols to lock out Linux. Remember that Adobe Flash is banned on Linux Tablets. The BBC knows this and yet chose RTMP anyway. Any good explanation why HTTP works for You Tube but not for the BBC? Other than the BBC is extremely pro-Microsoft? Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] RTMP stream URL resolving script
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: 23 January 2008 13:36 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RTMP stream URL resolving script On 22/01/2008, Deirdre Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any chance you could stop with the accusations of dishonesty? Any chance you could actually answer the questions I asked? No chance at all, sorry. I don't know the answers. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC TWO Programme timings
On Jan 22, 2008 1:59 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small question. There are a number of occasions where the schedule on channels is NEVER as published! A good example the 10pm-10:30pm slot on BBC TWO. Programmes in this slot actually start never earlier than 10:02pm and usually end at 10:32pm, with Newsnight starting at 10:33pm. [...] I can understand for humans using the EPG, 10pm-10:30pm is good enough, but if you PVR anything (Sky+, Freeview Playback, WMC) in this slot you get an overrun from the previous programme and miss the end. Can something be done with the source data to fix this? To answer your question, something is already being done. - For major networks in the UK, the Present/Following information in the SI tables should roll over just before the actual programme start time. In some cases this is triggered directly from the playout system. Keep an eye on when Newsnight is on 'now' on a Freeview box to see this in action. - A decent PVR should pay attention to this, and record the entirety of the event - ie from when it becomes the 'present' event, to when it's no longer running. To get a 'digital tick', recievers should adhere to http://www.dtg.org.uk/testing/conformance.html , and the document UK Digital TV Receiver Recommendations, which states this. (An event can actually be 'paused', for example, during a commercial break, but I think it's pretty obvious why none of the broadcasters would want to do this.) - However, on Sky, the accurate EIT P/F is not carried across multiplexes, so your Sky+ box may just record from the billed start time. It should record all the way to the end, though - so with the 10pm programme, you may get a few minutes of the preceding programme, but it should continue to record until 10.32pm, when the next event starts. The second-accurate schedules of programmes could be considered to be commercially sensitive, so the broadcasters aren't so keen on publishing them in advance (for example, a broadcaster wouldn't want a competitor knowing about stunts where one programme will start a little early, or follow directly on from the previous with no commercial break, in order to stop viewers switching over to the big new show on the other side). If your PVR hasn't quite caught up with these developments though, you could perhaps try what Jason's suggested and add a couple of minutes either side. Hope this helps, - martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC TWO Programme timings
I can do that too, but it's not really user friendly in the traditional sense. On 23/01/2008, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My cheapo Freeview PVR has an option to record a number of minutes either side of a programme. That works for me. J -- Jason Cartwright Web Specialist, EMEA Marketing [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44(0)2070313161 On Jan 22, 2008 1:59 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small question. There are a number of occasions where the schedule on channels is NEVER as published! A good example the 10pm-10:30pm slot on BBC TWO. Programmes in this slot actually start never earlier than 10:02pm and usually end at 10:32pm, with Newsnight starting at 10:33pm. The schedule is shown in the newspapers, on the BBC site, and (most importantly) fed to EPG (ie, Sky's and the one used by Windows Media Center) always says 10pm-10:30pm for whatever programme is on. Obviously the late start is because people often watch the news headlines on BBC ONE and then turn over to 'TWO for some entertainment, thus the delayed start. Also, the junction between the end of the regional news on BBC ONE matches the start of Newsnight, which also makes sense. I can understand for humans using the EPG, 10pm-10:30pm is good enough, but if you PVR anything (Sky+, Freeview Playback, WMC) in this slot you get an overrun from the previous programme and miss the end. Can something be done with the source data to fix this? -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] BBC TWO Programme timings
Martin, Thanks very much for the reply. On 23/01/2008, Martin Deutsch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 22, 2008 1:59 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A small question. There are a number of occasions where the schedule on channels is NEVER as published! A good example the 10pm-10:30pm slot on BBC TWO. Programmes in this slot actually start never earlier than 10:02pm and usually end at 10:32pm, with Newsnight starting at 10:33pm. [...] I can understand for humans using the EPG, 10pm-10:30pm is good enough, but if you PVR anything (Sky+, Freeview Playback, WMC) in this slot you get an overrun from the previous programme and miss the end. Can something be done with the source data to fix this? To answer your question, something is already being done. - For major networks in the UK, the Present/Following information in the SI tables should roll over just before the actual programme start time. In some cases this is triggered directly from the playout system. Keep an eye on when Newsnight is on 'now' on a Freeview box to see this in action. I had noticed that this happens on all Freeview boxes. It used to be a nightmare before at program junctions as the NOW and NEXT would become the same. - A decent PVR should pay attention to this, and record the entirety of the event - ie from when it becomes the 'present' event, to when it's no longer running. To get a 'digital tick', recievers should adhere to http://www.dtg.org.uk/testing/conformance.html , and the document UK Digital TV Receiver Recommendations, which states this. (An event can actually be 'paused', for example, during a commercial break, but I think it's pretty obvious why none of the broadcasters would want to do this.) I'm using the Windows Vista Ultimate Media Center, which is the best PVR I have ever used. A Sky HD box seems like a ZX Spectrum by comparision. It's connected to the TV using DVI and I've got a terrabyte to store stuff on. But, as it a Microsoft product, it's only the Haupagge card that is approved. The EPG is fed from the Digiguide people, who have a feed directly from the BBC. The Microsoft system relys on the EPG, but it can do brilliant tricks when you need to resole a clash (there is a limit of two decoders) like spot other showing of the same epsiode, and you can set series priorites. Additionly it remembers your series records and automatically picks up the same one next season. - However, on Sky, the accurate EIT P/F is not carried across multiplexes, so your Sky+ box may just record from the billed start time. It should record all the way to the end, though - so with the 10pm programme, you may get a few minutes of the preceding programme, but it should continue to record until 10.32pm, when the next event starts. Sky+ boxes have an automatic facility that records an extra few minutes if it can too. The second-accurate schedules of programmes could be considered to be commercially sensitive, so the broadcasters aren't so keen on publishing them in advance (for example, a broadcaster wouldn't want a competitor knowing about stunts where one programme will start a little early, or follow directly on from the previous with no commercial break, in order to stop viewers switching over to the big new show on the other side). It's hardly a secret about these junctions, they happen every single day and they can be seen on the live BARB graphs. It seems incredible to me that the BBC is DELIBERATELY providing me (via Microsoft) with inaccurate information. If your PVR hasn't quite caught up with these developments though, you could perhaps try what Jason's suggested and add a couple of minutes either side. *I* know I can do this, I just wanted to know why the BBC was providing poisoned information. Why should people who have paid for Windows Vista Ultimate Edition have a poor service on purpose? Hope this helps, - martin - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
[backstage] Lol
Probably posted before - http://lol.ianloic.com/bbc - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Lol
On 23/01/2008, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably posted before - http://lol.ianloic.com/bbc Don't think so - that is the best backstage mashup evar :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Lol
On Jan 23, 2008 11:06 PM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 23/01/2008, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably posted before - http://lol.ianloic.com/bbc Don't think so - that is the best backstage mashup evar :-) That's great! Needs translating to LOLcats speak though :P - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC TWO Programme timings
Brian Butterworth wrote: It seems incredible to me that the BBC is DELIBERATELY providing me (via Microsoft) with inaccurate information. If you were to start by assuming that inaccuracies in the EPG data provided by the BBC were there for reasons other than to screw over Windows Media Center users, you might be more likely to come up with a reasonable explanation for the behaviour. *I* know I can do this, I just wanted to know why the BBC was providing poisoned information. Why should people who have paid for Windows Vista Ultimate Edition have a poor service on purpose? Why should the BBC optimise its schedule services for the benefit of one particular manufacturer of DTT viewing software? As Martin describes, there are standard ways of accurately timing recordings from DTT, and if Microsoft doesn't choose to make them available to users of its software, I don't think it's reasonable to blame the BBC or any other broadcaster for this. Given how much you know about broadcasting, I am certain that you are aware of the conceptual and practical differences between programme schedules published a week or more in advance, and actual playout times, which can vary considerably, especially (but by no means exclusively) if live events overrun. I don't know much about Digiguide, but it seems probable to me that they are only providing you with the former information. Again, I find it hard to understand how the BBC is to blame for this. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Lol
On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 12:02:43AM +, Iain Wallace wrote: That's great! Needs translating to LOLcats speak though :P I wonder if some amount of keyword filtering could be done on the photos... not sure if that would still be funny though. -- Noah Slater http://bytesexual.org/ Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as society is free to use the results. - R. Stallman - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Lol
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iain Wallace On Jan 23, 2008 11:06 PM, Dave Crossland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 23/01/2008, David Greaves [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably posted before - http://lol.ianloic.com/bbc Don't think so - that is the best backstage mashup evar :-) That's great! Needs translating to LOLcats speak though :P http://lolinator.com/lol/news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/world/default.stm No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.10/1240 - Release Date: 23/01/2008 17:47 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
