Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Just monitoring the BBC Freesat thing... It seems that on 11.427Mhz (H 27.5, an Arqiva Mux) there are now four Freesat channels, Freesat home, Freesat Common C, Freesat SSU and Freesat OAD. Can anyone help with what an SSU or OAD is? Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Yes. They should asterisk that out. St**e J*bs. Cheers, Rich. On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Sean DALY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's The Register on the subject, with an offensive title. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12/iplayer_linux_stream_download_hack/ On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/03/2008, Ivan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. And if I might make so bold - why do they do this? Presumably it's because they want to send Flash to a PC, and MP4 only to phones. Unfortunately user agent sniffing isn't really designed to do what they are trying to do. They would generally have to have a list of all phones user agents and whether they support Flash or MP4 and serve accordingly. There are better ways of doing this. For instance the user agent (i.e your phone) can chose itself by being given multiple options via a 300 response code. Or check what the browser/phone actually wants, i.e. check the Accept header to see if it wants .flv or .mp4 Or use the fallback of HTML object tags. Present a Flash object tag and inside it put the HTML for MP4. If flash is not present the browser should fallback to what's inside the tag (may fail if Flash is present but incompatible, or wrong version). Of course most methods fail at some point so provide a link to the user to override possible incorrect choices. User Agent sniffing is certainly not a good solution if there is no user override for correcting it's mistakes. It is certainly bad accessibility wise. What is it specific about the iPhone that this feed needs to be limited to iPhones? Nothing, it's just their way of separating PC and phone, if it isn't an iPhone they assume it's a PC. Similar to some sites that assume if a web browser is not IE it's Firefox/Netscape. Or, to put it another way, if it wasn't sniffing my phone, could I watch this feed on my N95 (insert any other capable phone or phone app here) If your phone supports MP4 and HTTP then it should be fine. For now fake user agent. In the long run complain to the BBC or the BBC Trust. (This is NOT platform agnostic as requested by the trust, specifically scanning for a certain product and delivering them better content is extremely risky). As I said it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes for the BBC to correct. If they are doing things server side then just alter there code to server MP4 if user agent is iPhone, OR if a certain argument in the URL is set. Something like: ?php $version = 'flash'; if (isset($_GET['force'])) $version = $_GET['force']; else if (isIPhone()) $version = 'mp4'; else $version = 'flash'; if ($version == 'flash') // serve flash stuff here else if ($version == 'mp4') // server mp4 here else echo 'Unrecognised version!!!'; ? And then add links with force=flash and force=mp4 so the user can correct mistaken user agent sniffing. Combining this with some of the other above methods would be even better. But unless the BBC wants to actually hire me I'm not going to do their jobs for them! Of course that code may not work, I haven't done PHP for over 3 years but it is the basic idea. Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 Registered address: 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
On 12/03/2008, Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW I still can't get the mp4 to stream rather than download. Anyone? My guess is that the proprietary player on the iPhone just buffers part of the HTTP GET data and starts playing away? :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers Address Accessibility in Web 2.0
On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, We're involved in abilitynet's one day conference - www.abilitynet.org.uk/accessibility2 So who's actually going to this then? Cheers, Rich. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Here's The Register on the subject, with an offensive title. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12/iplayer_linux_stream_download_hack/ In a statement, a BBC spokeswoman said: This is not unusual or surprising. We are working with our partners to ensure that our content is delivered to users in a secure way. We have made it clear that BBC iPlayer on iPhone and iTouch is currently in beta, which enables us to pick up on such issues and find a solution before we roll the service out in full in due course. Booo. FWIW I still can't get the mp4 to stream rather than download. Anyone? Phil - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Dave Crossland wrote: On 12/03/2008, Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW I still can't get the mp4 to stream rather than download. Anyone? My guess is that the proprietary player on the iPhone just buffers part of the HTTP GET data and starts playing away? :-) That's how the iPhone is doing it (and the Flash player, and all the other network media players that support progressive downloads), yes. Obviously progressive downloads and streaming are very different things, but in the domain of Internet video, the former seem to be meeting a lot of users' requirements at the moment. S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
The comments are tiresome - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12/iplayer_linux_stream_download_hack/comments/ Thank goodness for the backstage list eh? This seems a lot better written - http://www.techradar.com/news/portable-devices/ipods/bbc-happy-to-go-drm-free--261475 I'm out of the office at the Guardian changing media summit but am watching for any official statements. Sean DALY wrote: Here's The Register on the subject, with an offensive title. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12/iplayer_linux_stream_download_hack/ On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:38 PM, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/03/2008, Ivan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. And if I might make so bold - why do they do this? Presumably it's because they want to send Flash to a PC, and MP4 only to phones. Unfortunately user agent sniffing isn't really designed to do what they are trying to do. They would generally have to have a list of all phones user agents and whether they support Flash or MP4 and serve accordingly. There are better ways of doing this. For instance the user agent (i.e your phone) can chose itself by being given multiple options via a 300 response code. Or check what the browser/phone actually wants, i.e. check the Accept header to see if it wants .flv or .mp4 Or use the fallback of HTML object tags. Present a Flash object tag and inside it put the HTML for MP4. If flash is not present the browser should fallback to what's inside the tag (may fail if Flash is present but incompatible, or wrong version). Of course most methods fail at some point so provide a link to the user to override possible incorrect choices. User Agent sniffing is certainly not a good solution if there is no user override for correcting it's mistakes. It is certainly bad accessibility wise. What is it specific about the iPhone that this feed needs to be limited to iPhones? Nothing, it's just their way of separating PC and phone, if it isn't an iPhone they assume it's a PC. Similar to some sites that assume if a web browser is not IE it's Firefox/Netscape. Or, to put it another way, if it wasn't sniffing my phone, could I watch this feed on my N95 (insert any other capable phone or phone app here) If your phone supports MP4 and HTTP then it should be fine. For now fake user agent. In the long run complain to the BBC or the BBC Trust. (This is NOT platform agnostic as requested by the trust, specifically scanning for a certain product and delivering them better content is extremely risky). As I said it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes for the BBC to correct. If they are doing things server side then just alter there code to server MP4 if user agent is iPhone, OR if a certain argument in the URL is set. Something like: ?php $version = 'flash'; if (isset($_GET['force'])) $version = $_GET['force']; else if (isIPhone()) $version = 'mp4'; else $version = 'flash'; if ($version == 'flash') // serve flash stuff here else if ($version == 'mp4') // server mp4 here else echo 'Unrecognised version!!!'; ? And then add links with force=flash and force=mp4 so the user can correct mistaken user agent sniffing. Combining this with some of the other above methods would be even better. But unless the BBC wants to actually hire me I'm not going to do their jobs for them! Of course that code may not work, I haven't done PHP for over 3 years but it is the basic idea. Andy -- Computers are like air conditioners. Both stop working, if you open windows. -- Adam Heath - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] A question about BBC-iPlayer_Setup.exe
Unfortunately it turned out to not be a cab file after all, that's why I'm still trying to find out more (see below) :-/ Thanks though Dan On 11/03/2008 15:07, Sean DALY was seen to type: Dan - have you tried Stuart Caie's cabextract? I have used it on OSX to extract a single file from a .CAB package. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm still trying for find out more (you know when you get a challenge but just can't leave it until you have worked it out!) but I have some more info if anyone is interested or can help? :-) My findings indicate that this file is a Windows Installer Internet Download Bootstrap with a built in msi file, it looks a lot like a self extracting cab file so it can be mistaken for one. It would be really useful if someone at the BBC could provide the details of what tool was used to construct the file so that I can have a go at reproducing the format. Thanks again Dan Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unlike the questions about the the iplayer itself I have a question regarding the exe that Windows users can use to download iplayer. I am trying to write a tool to monitor/filter web traffic and so I need to identify the media type of all files it see and unpack all archive files. I'm having difficulty with BBC-iPlayer_Setup.exe, I can identify it as a self-extracting Microsoft CAB file, but when I try to unpack it, it fails. I guess my questions are... - Is it a self-extracting CAB file? - If it is not a CAB file what is it please? - And, if possible, what tool was used to create it and package it up? Thank you :-) I'll go back to lurking now :-) Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 11:04 AM, Steve Jolly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave Crossland wrote: On 12/03/2008, Phil Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FWIW I still can't get the mp4 to stream rather than download. Anyone? My guess is that the proprietary player on the iPhone just buffers part of the HTTP GET data and starts playing away? :-) That's how the iPhone is doing it (and the Flash player, and all the other network media players that support progressive downloads), yes. Obviously progressive downloads and streaming are very different things, but in the domain of Internet video, the former seem to be meeting a lot of users' requirements at the moment. The Flash player wasn't - it was using RTMP, which enables the client to feed back about bandwidth to maintain a stream quality that the client can handle and also to skip to any point without downloading the preceding file contents. I'm sure you knew this - just clarifying. Iain - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] A question about BBC-iPlayer_Setup.exe
On the cabextract homepage there is info about InstallShield packages too. Microsoft's MSDN might be helpful, e.g.: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa446531.aspx On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 1:16 PM, Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately it turned out to not be a cab file after all, that's why I'm still trying to find out more (see below) :-/ Thanks though Dan On 11/03/2008 15:07, Sean DALY was seen to type: Dan - have you tried Stuart Caie's cabextract? I have used it on OSX to extract a single file from a .CAB package. On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I'm still trying for find out more (you know when you get a challenge but just can't leave it until you have worked it out!) but I have some more info if anyone is interested or can help? :-) My findings indicate that this file is a Windows Installer Internet Download Bootstrap with a built in msi file, it looks a lot like a self extracting cab file so it can be mistaken for one. It would be really useful if someone at the BBC could provide the details of what tool was used to construct the file so that I can have a go at reproducing the format. Thanks again Dan Dogsbody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unlike the questions about the the iplayer itself I have a question regarding the exe that Windows users can use to download iplayer. I am trying to write a tool to monitor/filter web traffic and so I need to identify the media type of all files it see and unpack all archive files. I'm having difficulty with BBC-iPlayer_Setup.exe, I can identify it as a self-extracting Microsoft CAB file, but when I try to unpack it, it fails. I guess my questions are... - Is it a self-extracting CAB file? - If it is not a CAB file what is it please? - And, if possible, what tool was used to create it and package it up? Thank you :-) I'll go back to lurking now :-) Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer DRM is over?
Iain Wallace wrote: That's how the iPhone is doing it (and the Flash player, and all the other network media players that support progressive downloads), yes. Obviously progressive downloads and streaming are very different things, but in the domain of Internet video, the former seem to be meeting a lot of users' requirements at the moment. The Flash player wasn't - it was using RTMP, which enables the client to feed back about bandwidth to maintain a stream quality that the client can handle and also to skip to any point without downloading the preceding file contents. I'm sure you knew this - just clarifying. Apologies, I wasn't talking about the BBC's video services, and I wasn't sufficiently clear - Flash *can* play video back via a progressive download (cf Youtube), or it can stream the video via RTMP as you point out. (I use the quotes because different people expect different things from the term - in a broadcast (or multicast) context people might expect streaming to preclude a return path back to the server, for example.) S - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] One-day Conference To Help Web Developers Address Accessibility in Web 2.0
On 12/03/2008, Richard Lockwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 2:51 PM, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're involved in abilitynet's one day conference - www.abilitynet.org.uk/accessibility2 So who's actually going to this then? I'll likely be there mis-representing Yamaha RD. Anthony.
