RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Student slave power... For what it is worth, I have just spent the past academic year (2004/2005) with five final year students (in multimedia) from London Metropolitan University. They had to produce an "interactive CD" to promote my business (I am a tai chi instructor). We had a contract (I refused to sign the first one!!) and I played the part of a "real client". They shot seven hours of video. I also recorded a "voice over" in the post production phase, and provided other background materials. More details off list if you are interested. Gordo -- "Think Feynman"/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Final year engineering students normally have to do a project which accounts for a significant amount of their final mark, the student then has to dedicate a proportional amount of time to this project. These projects can be their own devise (as mine was) or they can select from a list provided by the uni. A protion of the suggested project list is usually from external companies who want some low priority research carried out and submit project proposals to such uni's. I'm sure the BBC could easily submit such a project to many universities (Bradford, Brighton, Exeter, Guilford etc) and many students would love such a challenge. However in such a case prizes can not be offered - although the benefits to succesfull students are self evident. There are also EU sponsored schemes such as IST (http://www.cordis.lu/ist/) which provides venture capital to (consortiums of) companies and accademics to research technolgy. I believe the BBC has in the past been active in this respect. If I wasn't working full time, and if I wasn't married (with demanding kids) etc I would have submitted something myself (hey ho). Bernard -Original Message- From: Tom Coates [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 September 2005 01:14 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition I know this conversation has now ended, but I'd just like to briefly suggest that subsequent projects be promoted around Computer Science departments in Universities around the country. Students often have more time, are looking for projects that they'd enjoy hacking around with and are looking for ways in which they can demonstrate their employability. They also have the flexibility to be creative, and you only need a few good ideas to start coming in before other people get equally enthused. Perhaps it's a failing of the UK technical community that we're disconnected from the students and that there are so many non- technical people in the middle of it (and that the more technical people are so extraordinarily busy)? On 1 Sep 2005, at 16:00, Duncan Barclay wrote: > It does seem like a lot of people have had a lack of time. > > Personally I didn't find it too hard to parse the listings, > although it could have been easier with a simpler format. I think > I have made it clear that developing something around a BBC led > theme isn't really a problem for me :) > > I have actually got a "prototype", although it isn't finished > enough to really be submitted just now. Should be done by the > deadline though. I have already got the tv listings on a web page, > easily scrollable, etc. Hopefully it will be great by the weekend. > > Duncan > > Ben Metcalfe wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk >> competition hasnt gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the >> time of sending this we havent received any entries at all. >> >> backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with >> new ways of engaging with its expert user base, and clearly this >> specific exercise hasnt worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives >> to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am >> writing to communicate this to you all. >> >> Moving forward, Ive been trying to think about why this has >> happened and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: >> >> * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an >> alien format that was difficult to parse, or >> * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, >> isnt an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk >> community. >> >> Im keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the >> case, or maybe theres something else Ive completely missed? >> >> All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much >> appreciated, so Id be really grateful if you could let me know >> what you think either publicly on this mailing list or privately >> (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). >> >> I dont want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to >> you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I >> am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do >> differently next time). >> >> Many thanks >> >> >> Ben Metcalfe >> Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk >> >> >> - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
At 08:36 +0100 8/9/05, Paul Martin wrote: Well, I'm not sure about that one. I'm on an Electronics & Software MEng course and it's far from hard! Each year I get more and more free time, and talking to CS students the only reason why they end up working for longer is because the university hasn't taught them the correct ways to program, or more importantly to plan to program. I had the same in my first year. A small piece of analysis first is worthwhile. Others have suggested a "rapid prototype" approach. Projects often benefit from a small "back of the envelope" calculation to see if the code would run in reasonable time (order n squared or better??). If you plan a little and programme a little and plan some more, then that is an approach (is that the waterfall model?)... "Extreme programming" is my favoured approach at the moment :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_programming I have heard of "third normal form", but as a mathematics graduate, I have never actually touched one. Gordo -- "Think Feynman"/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Well, I'm not sure about that one. I'm on an Electronics & Software MEng course and it's far from hard! Each year I get more and more free time, and talking to CS students the only reason why they end up working for longer is because the university hasn't taught them the correct ways to program, or more importantly to plan to program. I had the same in my first year. I've seen 3rd years tapping out code immediately they are set a task - no planning what so ever. This leads to confusions and problems very quickly and is the usual reason for more time been spent on a project. I'd love it if universities would actually offer things like this, but it seems that the majority of universities don't give a damn about their students (or at least that's the appearance from our eyes)! It would certainly save me from trying to hunt for things like this off the Web. Paul - Original Message - From: "Luke Dicken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 1:38 AM Subject: RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition > > > > departments in Universities around the country. Students often have > > more time, are looking for projects that they'd enjoy hacking around > > You're kidding right? Students at Edinburgh (and the system is afaik the > same at most unis) are timetabled for an average 60hrs of class and > study a week minimum - last term the entire CS class in 3rd and 4th year > was working >10hrs 7 days a week just to stay on top of our workload. > All the graduates I know always tell me how much more time they have now > they work 9-5 and get weekends free, and its something that I'm quite > looking forward to. I know there is this cultural image that students > are slackers out drinking every night, but we arent anymore. We don't > get free money like those before us did, so we're either killing > ourselves trying to get a good degree in the hopes of maybe bailing out > of the huge level of debt we're in, or killing ourselves working part > time jobs to stop from getting into a huge level of debt. > > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
> departments in Universities around the country. Students often have > more time, are looking for projects that they'd enjoy hacking around You're kidding right? Students at Edinburgh (and the system is afaik the same at most unis) are timetabled for an average 60hrs of class and study a week minimum - last term the entire CS class in 3rd and 4th year was working >10hrs 7 days a week just to stay on top of our workload. All the graduates I know always tell me how much more time they have now they work 9-5 and get weekends free, and its something that I'm quite looking forward to. I know there is this cultural image that students are slackers out drinking every night, but we arent anymore. We don't get free money like those before us did, so we're either killing ourselves trying to get a good degree in the hopes of maybe bailing out of the huge level of debt we're in, or killing ourselves working part time jobs to stop from getting into a huge level of debt. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
I know this conversation has now ended, but I'd just like to briefly suggest that subsequent projects be promoted around Computer Science departments in Universities around the country. Students often have more time, are looking for projects that they'd enjoy hacking around with and are looking for ways in which they can demonstrate their employability. They also have the flexibility to be creative, and you only need a few good ideas to start coming in before other people get equally enthused. Perhaps it's a failing of the UK technical community that we're disconnected from the students and that there are so many non- technical people in the middle of it (and that the more technical people are so extraordinarily busy)? On 1 Sep 2005, at 16:00, Duncan Barclay wrote: It does seem like a lot of people have had a lack of time. Personally I didn't find it too hard to parse the listings, although it could have been easier with a simpler format. I think I have made it clear that developing something around a BBC led theme isn't really a problem for me :) I have actually got a "prototype", although it isn't finished enough to really be submitted just now. Should be done by the deadline though. I have already got the tv listings on a web page, easily scrollable, etc. Hopefully it will be great by the weekend. Duncan Ben Metcalfe wrote: Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Me too! I don't get out of bed for anything less than a G5 Dual Processor & Cinema Screen Display cheers Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Hi Steve, Weather.com has a good XML feed that provides forecasts for up to 5 days in advance. I think they're pretty OK about usage (the usuals - display their logo, non commercial etc). I've used it in the past and I have to say it's a dream to use! David -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Tomlinson Sent: 01 September 2005 4:59 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition Importance: High I'd like to just add another voice to the call for XML feeds. It's much easier to parse with the abundance of libraries. Also, off-topic, but any chance of the Weather feed (XML aussi) being added? The GNOME-UK team would like to use it. Stephen Ben Metcalfe said: > * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien > format that was difficult to parse, or > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, > isn't an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/05 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
yeah i would probably have got off my arse and learned what a crid wasif the prize had been a top of the line g4 with cinema display. I don't get out of bed for anything less than a G5 Dual Processor & Cinema Screen Display -- Chris Gilbert 07966 077 486 [EMAIL PROTECTED] On 1 Sep 2005, at 17:23, James Ockenden wrote: yeah i would probably have got off my arse and learned what a crid wasif the prize had been a top of the line g4 with cinema display. On 02/09/05, Luke Dicken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > As far as the prize goes, a rackable> server again limits your target audience - perhaps something more mainstream> would bring in more people who aren't techs-by-profession? Off the top of my> head a top-of-the-line desktop (or equivalent value) would be of wider use. > > Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. > > Luke > > > -Original Message-> From: owner- backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Metcalfe> Sent: 01 September 2005 14:39> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk> Subject: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition> Importance: High> > > > Dear all, > > I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk> competition hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of> sending this we haven't received any entries at all. > > backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways> of en! gaging with it's expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise> hasn't worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and> transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you> all. > > Moving forward, I've been trying to think about why this has happened – and> my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: > > * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format> that was difficult to parse, or > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an> approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. > > I'm keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or> maybe there's something else I've completely missed? > > All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated,> so I'd be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either> publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). > > I ! don't want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you w ith> some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge> where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). > > Many thanks > > > Ben Metcalfe > Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk > > -- ***Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at http:// www.bookcrossing.com/friend/jameso - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
yeah i would probably have got off my arse and learned what a crid wasif the prize had been a top of the line g4 with cinema display. On 02/09/05, Luke Dicken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > As far as the prize goes, a rackable> server again limits your target audience - perhaps something more mainstream> would bring in more people who aren't techs-by-profession? Off the top of my> head a top-of-the-line desktop (or equivalent value) would be of wider use. > > Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. > > Luke > > > -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Metcalfe> Sent: 01 September 2005 14:39> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk> Subject: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition> Importance: High> > > > Dear all, > > I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk> competition hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of> sending this we haven't received any entries at all. > > backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways> of en! gaging with it's expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise> hasn't worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and> transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you> all. > > Moving forward, I've been trying to think about why this has happened – and> my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: > > * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format> that was difficult to parse, or > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an> approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. > > I'm keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or> maybe there's something else I've completely missed? > > All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated,> so I'd be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either> publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). > > I ! don't want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you w ith> some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge> where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). > > Many thanks > > > Ben Metcalfe > Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk > > -- ***Commit random acts of literacy! Read & Release at http://www.bookcrossing.com/friend/jameso - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
the problem for me was that the data is overly complex. On 01/09/05, Luke Dicken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > For my part, all the interesting things I came up with were very AI related,> which meant they were really just ways of procrastinating from working on my> dissertation and commercial-type stuff, so I couldn't legitimately justify> spending the time on it. I think in general this sort of thing will take a> long time to produce results - the kind of people who have the expertise to> do this well are the kind of people who already do this professionally, and> after a long day on the job I know I wouldn't be wholly interested in coming> back home and code-monkeying some more. As far as the prize goes, a rackable> server again limits your target audience - perhaps something more mainstream> would bring in more people who aren't techs-by-profession? Off the top of my> head a top-of-the-line desktop (or equivalent value) would be of wider use. > > Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. > > Luke > > > --! ---Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Metcalfe> Sent: 01 September 2005 14:39> To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk> Subject: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition> Importance: High> > > > Dear all, > > I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk> competition hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of> sending this we haven't received any entries at all. > > backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways> of engaging with it's expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise> hasn't worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and> transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you> all. > > Moving forward, I've been trying to think about why this has happened – and> my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: > > * The TV schedule data we provided over-c! omplicated and in an alien format> that was difficult to parse, or > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an> approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. > > I'm keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or> maybe there's something else I've completely missed? > > All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated,> so I'd be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either> publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). > > I don't want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with> some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge> where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). > > Many thanks > > > Ben Metcalfe > Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk > > -- Ben O'[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Title: Message For my part, all the interesting things I came up with were very AI related, which meant they were really just ways of procrastinating from working on my dissertation and commercial-type stuff, so I couldn't legitimately justify spending the time on it. I think in general this sort of thing will take a long time to produce results - the kind of people who have the expertise to do this well are the kind of people who already do this professionally, and after a long day on the job I know I wouldn't be wholly interested in coming back home and code-monkeying some more. As far as the prize goes, a rackable server again limits your target audience - perhaps something more mainstream would bring in more people who aren't techs-by-profession? Off the top of my head a top-of-the-line desktop (or equivalent value) would be of wider use. Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. Luke -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben MetcalfeSent: 01 September 2005 14:39To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competitionImportance: High Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
I'd like to just add another voice to the call for XML feeds. It's much easier to parse with the abundance of libraries. Also, off-topic, but any chance of the Weather feed (XML aussi) being added? The GNOME-UK team would like to use it. Stephen Ben Metcalfe said: > * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien > format that was difficult to parse, or > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't > an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
- Original Message - From: "Ben Metcalfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sorry bit of a long reply. * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I quite liked the idea, although it did feel a bit limited. I have a feeling most of the developers would have come up with the same sort of ideas - more efficient searching, program suggestions based on taste, cross referencing of actors names with other films etc. Look up film or TV show trailers from other sites, display film IMDB ratings etc (although I'm unsure of the legal requirements to do so of those last ones) Personally along with those ideas, I wanted to go back to my old multimedia roots and try out some more abstract uses, such as illustrating the days tv through images or sounds, If it was possible build a montage out of the programmes title graphics etc. However this would require further access to visual assets that simply aren't available at this time. * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or I spent a quite a good chunk of time working on my entry, sadly at the end of this time I barely had a decent xml parser and database management system implemented, let alone the intended feature set I had planned. Personally the biggest cause for this was the whole TV anytime format and the extreme lack of material/documents for getting started. Even after hours of research on backstage and at ETSI i was little the wiser as to parts of the format, especially in regard as to what results one could expect for specific entries. To learn more I ploughed through several of the xml files trying to absorb what contents would be expected. In the end I decided this was fruitless, and that maybe there wasn't even any specific guidelines to say the program genres. Although later i did find some correlation between the genre href ID and some document, but I forget if it was actually useful information. So i took a different approach and that was to make the project completely data independent. It would dynamically track all data, so there would be no hardcoded values, or expected values, the application would make no assumptions. Of course in a perfect world this is possibly the ideal method to develop a data driven application, trouble is it takes so much longer and requires much more focus. This gets to the point where I simply lost track of my original project idea, instead to caught up in the creation of the xml parser and backend database/structuring required. I'd just like to add, that parsing the data is only the first issue, the data needs to be organised for efficient searching and other per project specific needs, and that can generally be where the difficulties start, especially with the lack of documentation. So specific issues 1. Lack of 'Getting started' documentation Some simple examples of using the data would have really helped get me up to speed. I'm not just talking about xml parsing (there was a java version floating around) more a case of looking at what useful data was in TV anytime, and what various aspects of it meant. 2. Better documentation I found the ETSI site and documents poorly managed and almost impossible to know which document to look in for specific information. The whole time I was looking at the documents I had this feeling I'd jumped into the middle of a conversation, missing vital bits of information. 3. XML downloads One sticking point I was going to face was the transfer of the daily xml zips. Clearly using xml and data that uses large amounts of text is going to need to be compressed, trouble is I had no easy mechanism (for a web browser app) to download and extract the data. In shockwave there are issues of feasibility and security, in the case of downloading, storing, unzipping data on a users machine. Not impossible to work around, but also not possible with a plain vanilla version of Shockwave being installed. In fact the only real solution is to provide the xml files loose, but as the current uncompressed 7day zip is around 10mb, downloading/streaming each file is going to hurt even those on broadband. Obviously these issues don't apply to a non-browser plugin application 4. XML Format I find a large amount of time is wasted simply processing the xml data into a format that is useful for database search functions. Heck even loading in the 500 odd files and parsing them can take 10 seconds in my case. And whats the point, I think its highly likely that everyone is doing the same thing. That is parsing the tv anytime format into a more suitable format to work with. Which begs the question if every has to do this, why not provide it in a more suitable format? Maybe one that has some basic search queries already embedded for example a lookuptable of program genres. 5
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. Ouch! Much as others have said, time is a factor. A number of the forums/websites that I use tend to go very quiet over this time of year as everyone is on holiday or out getting fresh air (strange people) ;-) * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or Alien, yes, complicated, yes BUT please don't let that stop you! We need much much more raw data from sites such as the BBC, perhaps writing a simple parser on the TV-Anytime feeds into a straight XML feed would have solved that. People could then choose between how much data/complexity they wanted. Right now I would much rather see too much data than too little! * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. This was one of the factors for me. It was BBC only :-\ I know you can't really do anything about this but if I were to develop a TV schedule app then I would at least want to have the 5 terrestrial channels and not just the BBC ones :-\ TV schedule data for all the common channels are on the net elsewhere and I would probably use them :-\ I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? The "Non-profit" tag also hit with me. I toyed with partnering up the TV listings with Amazon data give "if you liked that then try this" type links but that may link to Amazon products that you could buy and I would be making money! So what's in it for me to write this app?? I also wasn't sure if this data would be staying around as there are warnings all over the place about the feeds only being around for three months. I have written some modules for CMS systems so that Joe Bloggs user can easily embed data into their website and thought about using the BBC feeds to allow people to add TV listings to their sites. As the feeds include URL's for the programme site on bbc.co.uk I thought this would be great for you to pull in hits to your site. In the end I didn't write these modules because I didn't know if the data would be staying around and while it would have pulled lots of links to the BBC site I didn't think the coding would have been fancy/clever enough to win any prizes :-) I hope that helped answer your questions :-) Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
I was hoping to get something in but other stuff got in the ways and I'm still not a very good coder. TV-Anytime is just to difficult for me to parse, I really needed simple RSS style feeds or an easy-to-use parser. On 01/09/05, Steve Fitzpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 01/09/05, Ben Metcalfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format > > that was difficult to parse, > > This was the clincher for me I'm afraid. > > I'm great at coming up with ideas, but am not the world's best coder. > And when I do hack something together, I tend to use ASP and VBScript. > > So, the learning curve to get something out of the feeds was just too > great for me I'm afraid. When something's 80% idea and 20% coding, > then I'm up for it - reverse that and my motivation drops right down. > > It was always going to be too difficult for me to get the data from > the feeds that I wanted, so I didn't even try. > > > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an > > approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. > > I'm certainly interested in prize-led competitions! However I think > that the prize should reflect the type of entrant that you're > targetting. > > As an ideas person, then thought of having my own server doesn't > really appeal to me. On the other hand, a coder would probably jump > through hoops for one. > > What would have made me enter? Not sure, how about access to > non-public feeds :) > > Anyway, those are my thoughts. Feel free to discard if they go > against the grain. > > Steve > > - > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please > visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > -- Regards, Unigamer - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
It does seem like a lot of people have had a lack of time. Personally I didn't find it too hard to parse the listings, although it could have been easier with a simpler format. I think I have made it clear that developing something around a BBC led theme isn't really a problem for me :) I have actually got a "prototype", although it isn't finished enough to really be submitted just now. Should be done by the deadline though. I have already got the tv listings on a web page, easily scrollable, etc. Hopefully it will be great by the weekend. Duncan Ben Metcalfe wrote: backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
On 9/1/05, Jonathan Chetwynd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I believe the TV schedule concept isn't that exciting, but just mightbe with access to sound, picture and motion files, perhaps an onlinemixing console? there are excellent versions online that work withfixed files jellify BBC content XML is requisite imho, but not sufficient, give us the tools! I agree. For me schedules are virtually redundant now anyways. Tv&radio devoted torrent-tracker sites make very effective time shifting devices. Besides I find myself using mainstream tv & radio for entertainment, news & information less and less. Chris
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
On 01/09/05, Ben Metcalfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format > that was difficult to parse, This was the clincher for me I'm afraid. I'm great at coming up with ideas, but am not the world's best coder. And when I do hack something together, I tend to use ASP and VBScript. So, the learning curve to get something out of the feeds was just too great for me I'm afraid. When something's 80% idea and 20% coding, then I'm up for it - reverse that and my motivation drops right down. It was always going to be too difficult for me to get the data from the feeds that I wanted, so I didn't even try. > * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an > approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I'm certainly interested in prize-led competitions! However I think that the prize should reflect the type of entrant that you're targetting. As an ideas person, then thought of having my own server doesn't really appeal to me. On the other hand, a coder would probably jump through hoops for one. What would have made me enter? Not sure, how about access to non-public feeds :) Anyway, those are my thoughts. Feel free to discard if they go against the grain. Steve - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
I was hoping to enter; indeed, I got about 1/3 of the way through my project but
sheer lack of time and expertise has got in the way.
The main problem was parsing the XML. I'd developed the beginnings of the
interface, and I was about to approach parsing the XML. Unfortunately, I ended
up writing the application in Python which is not quite my forte (ie: I
practically knew none of it when I began). The difficulty of parsing the XML
was really what was holding me back - that's why I asked if anyone had
developed a TV-anytime parser for Python.
Anyhow, I may as well blow open what I was working on because the deadline's
passed: an AIM chatbot that you could talk to in natural language eg ("what's
on bbc1 or bbc2 between 2030 and 2230"). The bit I've done is most of the
language-parsing and creating the userid (the bot is called whatsonthebbc). The
bit I haven't done is parsing the XML.
It's not even really the XML that was tricky - my XPath syntax is competent, and
that's all I'd need; it's just handling the gzip'd file, decompressing to a temp
directory, and joining the dots between three seperate files for each channel.
I can see the advantages of TV-Anytime, no doubt, but the file-handling was just
getting a little beyond me.
Still, if anyone's developed a TV-Anytime parser in Python, that'd ease the
cogs.
Also, as I said, the main constraint was time - not the length of the deadline,
but merely my summer being busier than I thought.
Still, I've discovered that I rather like Python as a result.
t.
Quoting Ben Metcalfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk
> competition hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of
> sending this we haven't received any entries at all.
>
> backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new
> ways of engaging with it's expert user base, and clearly this specific
> exercise hasn't worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a
> publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to
> communicate this to you all.
>
> Moving forward, I've been trying to think about why this has happened -
> and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities:
>
> * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien
> format that was difficult to parse, or
> * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't
> an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community.
>
> I'm keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or
> maybe there's something else I've completely missed?
>
> All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much
> appreciated, so I'd be really grateful if you could let me know what you
> think - either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe
> [at] bbc.co.uk).
>
> I don't want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you
> with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to
> gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next
> time).
>
> Many thanks
>
>
> Ben Metcalfe
> Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk
>
>
>
>
-
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Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Ben, I'm concerned at the hype around the use and provision of text, and the failure to engage users of other media, by releasing under published copyright (commons type) restrictions as advertised by the BBC. Even with text the BBC seemed to be trying to be pretty restrictive on copyright, whilst letting google forward whatever. You might consider that hype was too strong but --- Build what you want using BBC content --- seems to me to mean a LOT more than in fact it does in this instance. The BBC should be and I imagine is considering what happened to music and film in recent years where assets are repurposed. Well this project didn't live up to even a small part of that hype. I believe the TV schedule concept isn't that exciting, but just might be with access to sound, picture and motion files, perhaps an online mixing console? there are excellent versions online that work with fixed files jellify BBC content XML is requisite imho, but not sufficient, give us the tools! x:" On 1 Sep 2005, at 14:39, Ben Metcalfe wrote: Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
I think as is the case with many people it all comes down to time unfortunately.As someone else mentioned, I assumed you would be inundated with really cool stuff and that my offering of a couple of weekends here and there just wouldn't be up to scratch. I guess I'll have to rethink.I also agree with David Tattersal about perhaps giving a slightly more exciting brief. --Chris Gilbert07966 077 486[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 1 Sep 2005, at 14:39, Ben Metcalfe wrote: Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all.backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all.Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities:* The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community.I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed?All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk).I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time).Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 02:57:34PM +0100, David Tattersall wrote: > >Also - it's not the most enticing theme. TV schedules have been done >before really. If you perhaps gave a goal - for example a project that >gradually learns what TV somebody likes and suggests programmes that >are on - with perhaps a view to having the project a permanent feature >of the BBC web site, I'm sure there would be more interest. Agreed. It has been done before and quite well. The format put me off also. > >Personally, I didn't work on an entry because I was busy with other >things! I assumed that such a wide subject like TV guides would have >attracted too many people! Likewise! I would have loved to submit something but with work, other projects and it being summer I was kinda busy. Maybe over the cold winter months we'd all be more productive :) Olly Jackson -- http://cyber-junky.co.ukhttp://www.googlesightseeing.com - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Personally I was quite interested in the competition, however holidays
and chaos at work have meant no time to come up with an idea let alone
work on it.
Tim.
On 9/1/05, Ben Metcalfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk
> competition hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of
> sending this we haven't received any entries at all.
>
{snip}
-
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Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
(Note to self: enter competition.) In my case, the problem is three-fold: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, That's the first problem. Parsing through two files, one containing program descriptions and the other containing times, raised the amount of work required from "quick PHP parser" to "database and complex parser". * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I don't mind developing around a BBC theme -- it's a great plan to spur ideas -- but the trouble for me is that there aren't that many cool themes that you can do around TV listings. The final stumbling block was that I figured that loads of other people would have entered, since the prize is large, and thus it probably wasn't worth my time if I couldn't think of an absolutely killer app. However, I may do now I know there isn't that much competition. Of course, if other people also think that, then there will be competition, so it's not worth my time entering. Of course, if other people think that... -- Tom - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Except that with the Java API, the TV-Anytime files are fairly easy to parse... Perhaps they'll be a flood of entries next week? David Tattersall wrote: Hi, Point 1 is probably most pertinent for me! I'd have preferred a simple XML list like: How to start your own country 2130 2200 30 must like bleb.org :-) Also - it's not the most enticing theme. TV schedules have been done before really. If you perhaps gave a goal - for example a project that gradually learns what TV somebody likes and suggests programmes that are on - with perhaps a view to having the project a permanent feature of the BBC web site, I'm sure there would be more interest. Personally, I didn't work on an entry because I was busy with other things! I assumed that such a wide subject like TV guides would have attracted too many people! By the way - I kind of like that suggesting programmes thingy - I might try and make it! :D David *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Ben Metcalfe *Sent:* 01 September 2005 2:39 *To:* backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk *Subject:* [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition *Importance:* High Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/05 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Hi Ben, Ben Metcalfe wrote: Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – I'm sorry to hear that there haven't been any submissions -- I was really looking forward to see what people would come up with. As far as we (the Expway EPG/ESG team) are concerned it was simply a matter of time. We're continuously busy with a bunch of other things (of the kind that make money) and simply never got around to doing anything for the competition. It having taken place in the summer when a lot of people are on vacation (in France at least) hasn't helped either, though I'm not sure we'd have had time the rest of the year. I'm not sure how this could be addressed. Maybe the goals of the competition should be less ambitious? Re-reading the pages about it I now realize that in fact there's no requirement for the system to be complete, but that's the impression I got at first. and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or I'm sure that it being TVA has made it difficult for some people (though that wasn't an issue for us since we already know how mindboggling it is and are almost used to it). I'm not sure what alternatives would be best for the backstage community at large though. Damian Steer's been doing cool stuff with RDF in there, could that be an option? * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. Of course it's of interest, the BBC rocks! :) -- Robin Berjon Senior Research Scientist Expway, http://expway.com/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Ben The intention was good! I hope that you will persist in looking for ways to encourage independent developers to make use of the TV-Anytime data. My guess is that people need more time to come up with interesting applications. - there's quite a steep learning curve for TV-A newcomers. - Colin Colin Moorcraft, onTV Europe Ltd. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://onTV.eu.com mobile: +44-(0)7766 333067 Quoting Ben Metcalfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven't received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it's expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn't worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I've been trying to think about why this has happened - and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn't an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I'm keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there's something else I've completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I'd be really grateful if you could let me know what you think - either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don't want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Title: backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition Hi, Point 1 is probably most pertinent for me! I'd have preferred a simple XML list like: How to start your own country 2130 2200 30 must like bleb.org :-) Also - it's not the most enticing theme. TV schedules have been done before really. If you perhaps gave a goal - for example a project that gradually learns what TV somebody likes and suggests programmes that are on - with perhaps a view to having the project a permanent feature of the BBC web site, I'm sure there would be more interest. Personally, I didn't work on an entry because I was busy with other things! I assumed that such a wide subject like TV guides would have attracted too many people! By the way - I kind of like that suggesting programmes thingy - I might try and make it! :D David From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben MetcalfeSent: 01 September 2005 2:39To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competitionImportance: High Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/05 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/84 - Release Date: 29/08/05
[backstage] backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition
Title: backstage.bbc.co.uk TV Schedule competition Dear all, I'm writing to let you know that the inaugural backstage.bbc.co.uk competition hasn’t gone as well as I had hoped. In fact, at the time of sending this we haven’t received any entries at all. backstage.bbc.co.uk is very much about the BBC experimenting with new ways of engaging with it’s expert user base, and clearly this specific exercise hasn’t worked. backstage.bbc.co.uk also strives to be a publicly open and transparent project, which is why I am writing to communicate this to you all. Moving forward, I’ve been trying to think about why this has happened – and my guess is that it comes to one of two possibilities: * The TV schedule data we provided over-complicated and in an alien format that was difficult to parse, or * The idea of developing around a BBC-led theme, even for a prize, isn’t an approach that is of interest to the backstage.bbc.co.uk community. I’m keen to gather whether either/both of these reasons are the case, or maybe there’s something else I’ve completely missed? All of your thoughts and views are very subject are very much appreciated, so I’d be really grateful if you could let me know what you think – either publicly on this mailing list or privately (ben.metcalfe [at] bbc.co.uk). I don’t want to pre-empt your views on this, so I will get back to you with some more thoughts and action points on my part, once I am able to gauge where we stand (and thus what we need to do differently next time). Many thanks Ben Metcalfe Project Lead, backstage.bbc.co.uk
