[backstage] iFiddlingDetails
Meanwhile, in actual news, Apple have published just how close they got to making developing for the iPhone just like web development: http://developer.apple.com/iphone/designingcontent.html Apart from the usual mobile device constraints of display size, input devices and network speed, I see these additional potential stumbling blocks in making typical web sites iPhone-compatible: + no Flash + no Java + no tool-tips + no hover styles + no mouse-over events + no Javascript execution beyond 5 seconds per page + no file uploading (input type='file') + no self-signed or custom X.509 certificates + old version of Javascript (1.4) + problems with framesets + problems with pop-up windows + scaling images is discouraged + converts anything that looks like a phone number into a tel: URL + built-in client that handles maps.google.com URLs + fixed video playback controls So, just like normal web development, then (except for all the differences). -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
Brian Butterworth wrote: + no Flash No bad thing that! Lots of sites use it, whether it's liked or not. I suspect this will be the first item on the list to change, once Adobe accede to whatever comedy business terms Jobs is suggesting to them, according to sources in my imagination. + no mouse-over events There's no mouse! Many AJAXy sites use hovering or mouse-overs to disclose extra options, previews or menus that don't seem available otherwise, so this will potentially break many trendy sites. + no file uploading (input type='file') Not really suprising on a closed device. So I can take photos, but can't upload them to Flickr? + problems with framesets Who uses them these days? They haven't gone away, and I've seen recent developments for intranets and business services where they're used to minimize page refreshes for a closed community of users using older or bandwidth-limited equipment. + problems with pop-up windows Another good think, surely? Still widely used, now often imitated by pop-up-like boxes over content instead, so the need for something like them is clear. + no self-signed or custom X.509 certificates Which, by the way, breaks the device for me as a potential future phone, since we use self-signed X.509 certs to authenticate to secure web services, and we're certainly not the only people doing this. (It doesn't help that I couldn't put an ssh client on the thing either.) -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
Is it just me but wouldn't this be the perfect device for a SVG interface? Oh well, what a waste... Frank Wales wrote: Meanwhile, in actual news, Apple have published just how close they got to making developing for the iPhone just like web development: http://developer.apple.com/iphone/designingcontent.html Apart from the usual mobile device constraints of display size, input devices and network speed, I see these additional potential stumbling blocks in making typical web sites iPhone-compatible: + no Flash + no Java + no tool-tips + no hover styles + no mouse-over events + no Javascript execution beyond 5 seconds per page + no file uploading (input type='file') + no self-signed or custom X.509 certificates + old version of Javascript (1.4) + problems with framesets + problems with pop-up windows + scaling images is discouraged + converts anything that looks like a phone number into a tel: URL + built-in client that handles maps.google.com URLs + fixed video playback controls So, just like normal web development, then (except for all the differences). - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:30 +0100, Frank Wales wrote: + no mouse-over events There's no mouse! Many AJAXy sites use hovering or mouse-overs to disclose extra options, previews or menus that don't seem available otherwise, so this will potentially break many trendy sites. Not only is such discriminatory behaviour illegal in many nations under disability access legislation it is poor web design, not good business-sense, and very bad manners. [iow javascript-only menus are a bad thing] btw if you want a telephone that you can browse with with Flash (or Gnash), Javascript and Java support, the Neo1973 from FIC should be available in the UK at about the same time as Apple's effort :-) - Richard -- Richard Smedley, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Director, www.M6-IT.org M6-IT CIC+44 (0)779 456 07 14 Sustainable Third Sector IT solutions. PRINCE2[TM] Project Management Web services * Back-ups * Support * Training Certification * E-Mail M6-IT is a Community Interest Company, limited by guarantee. Registered in England Wales, Registration No: 6040154 11 St Marks Road, Stourbridge, West Midlands, DY9 7DT Northern Office: 4, Hollins Green, Bradwall, Cheshire, CW10 0LA. Welsh office/Swyddfa Gogledd Cymru: e-mail / e-bost - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Southern Office: Bristolcontact [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
On 4 Jul 2007, at 19:45, Richard Smedley wrote: On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 18:30 +0100, Frank Wales wrote: + no mouse-over events There's no mouse! Many AJAXy sites use hovering or mouse-overs to disclose extra options, previews or menus that don't seem available otherwise, so this will potentially break many trendy sites. Not only is such discriminatory behaviour illegal in many nations under disability access legislation it is poor web design, not good business-sense, and very bad manners. [iow javascript-only menus are a bad thing] Nobody was suggesting *javascript only*. Javascript can be used to provide useful visual feedback for all kinds of elements. And it's quite common for AJAX to be used to enhance the usability of a site, rather than restrict it. Providing intuitive, interactive feedback is *good* design, great business sense and extremely good manners. (As is writing code that degrades gracefully.) Dom
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
Hello Dom, On Wed, 2007-07-04 at 21:27 +0100, Dom Ramsey wrote: Many AJAXy sites use hovering or mouse-overs to disclose extra options, previews or menus that don't seem available otherwise, so this will potentially break many trendy sites. Not only is such discriminatory behaviour illegal in many nations under disability access legislation it is poor web design, not good business-sense, and very bad manners. [iow javascript-only menus are a bad thing] Nobody was suggesting *javascript only*. Actually Frank's e-mail clearly said ``extra options, previews or menus that don't seem available otherwise'' Which I took to mean Javascript-only. Otherwise, yes javascript is great (I have the Rhino book on my desk, as I type), and used in the fashion you suggest below can be a good thing. I just think you missed the point in Frank's e-mail about sites with features only available in Javascript (and I'm afraid that there are some, and from people who should know better). Javascript can be used to provide useful visual feedback for all kinds of elements. And it's quite common for AJAX to be used to enhance the usability of a site, rather than restrict it. Providing intuitive, interactive feedback is *good* design, great business sense and extremely good manners. :-) (As is writing code that degrades gracefully.) Cheers, - Richard -- Richard Smedley, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical Director, www.M6-IT.org M6-IT CIC+44 (0)779 456 07 14 Sustainable Third Sector IT solutions. PRINCE2[TM] Project Management Web services * Back-ups * Support * Training Certification * E-Mail M6-IT is a Community Interest Company, limited by guarantee. Registered in England Wales, Registration No: 6040154 11 St Marks Road, Stourbridge, West Midlands, DY9 7DT Northern Office: 4, Hollins Green, Bradwall, Cheshire, CW10 0LA. Welsh office/Swyddfa Gogledd Cymru: e-mail / e-bost - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Southern Office: Bristolcontact [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
+ no file uploading (input type='file') Not really suprising on a closed device. So I can take photos, but can't upload them to Flickr? Use email? :-) Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iFiddlingDetails
On 07/04/2007 10:22 PM, Gordon Joly wrote: So I can take photos, but can't upload them to Flickr? Use email? :-) If I wanted to use e-mail for everything, I'd move back to 1992. (I suspect my ping times to flickr.com would become excessive, though.) Besides, Apple loudly proclaim that the iPhone is the Internet in your pocket: http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/ while merely whispering the curiously-folded value of 'Internet' they're actually working with. I'll be intrigued to see what the iPhone turns into by the time it lands on these shores, and indeed whether or not the Linux phone from FIC actually gains more traction that the rest of the promising-but-discontinued Linux-based handhelds did. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
