Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Tim Dobson wrote: The immediate question that, I would like to ask $[spokesman|admin|person] is, in reference to [1], Why? ...and, as usual, the question falls into a deep, dark, hole with the rest of the unanswered questions about iplayer. :( it's a shame really... -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
You've spelt belam as belham again. Maybe you keep thinking of that lovely bit of south london. But that was balham or the band balaam and the angel. Jem On 2/6/08 13:47, Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL It didn't say we want secure DRM but not TOO secure either -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: 30 May 2008 16:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac Ryan Morrison wrote: You say Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? But didn't the Trust also set the conditions for DRM? It doesn't say how secure the DRM has to be. And security wise it doesn't really need to be secure at all. After all the Beeb are blasting the programs out of transmitters, in digital form, at higher quality. Security is defined by weakest link. So as long as you make some small effort you're fine, you can't lower the security any more than it is now because their is none. The BBC keeps saying we need someone to write DRM for us, stop being such a bunch of lazy people and do it yourself. Helpfully the BBC pre-knows all the restrictions they want (so no need to actually encode the rights data ;)). A *very* simple method: 1. Assign client software a key or set of keys (symmetric or asymmetric doesn't really matter) 2. Take MP4* file prepend the files broadcast date(s). 3. Chose random symmetric encryption key 4. Cypher that data 5. Prepend a copy of the symmetric key encrypted with each client encryption key 6. Client decrypts with it's key and checks the broadcast date, if it's over 7 days old it refuses to play. 7. Job done, go to nearest pub (additionally actually test the software ;)) C = E_c1(k),E_c2(k),...,E_cN(k),E_k(T,P) Where C_x donates encryption under key x. c1,c2 to cN represents client keys 1 2 and N (repeat as needed) k is the item (or episode key) P is the item (or episode) T is the broadcast timestamp Decryption is left as an exercise for the reader^. As long as you don't use a Stream cypher the user will need to know the items key to tamper with the broadcast date, and if they have that key they can decrypt anyway! Might want to use some more complex method for encoding rights data. Weakness is the client key or item key could be compromised, but all DRM schemes have this weakness. It's stronger than plaintext so no less secure the Digital TV. Could probably code that in a few days (provided you have some kind of cryptography library available) * or any other format. ^ if you really can't work out how to do it then ask, but you really should have at least one person capable of understanding this The point here isn't so much that someone has made a download client but has made a download client that allows for the download of DRM free iPlayer files - which is against the terms the BBC have agreed for the iPlayer (I think that's right). The point is the BBC could have added a very simple DRM scheme and have done the same thing. Whether you agree with that or not - it is simple fact. Haven't seen the rights that the BBC have agreed. But if it says Windows DRM Only I would strongly suspect that the agreement may be illegal, particularly given EU vs Microsoft's ruling about tying. Would the BBC care to show us all this alleged document that is tying their hands? And Jem isn't trying to censor the internet - just asking that you talk about 'getting around the DRM on iPlayer files' somewhere that isn't run by the BBC. Trying to restrict discussion of certain topics isn't censorship? What precisely do you call it then? Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Sorry - but should you be doing this via the backstage list -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jem Stone Sent: 02 June 2008 14:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac You've spelt belam as belham again. Maybe you keep thinking of that lovely bit of south london. But that was balham or the band balaam and the angel. Jem On 2/6/08 13:47, Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL It didn't say we want secure DRM but not TOO secure either -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: 30 May 2008 16:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac Ryan Morrison wrote: You say Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? But didn't the Trust also set the conditions for DRM? It doesn't say how secure the DRM has to be. And security wise it doesn't really need to be secure at all. After all the Beeb are blasting the programs out of transmitters, in digital form, at higher quality. Security is defined by weakest link. So as long as you make some small effort you're fine, you can't lower the security any more than it is now because their is none. The BBC keeps saying we need someone to write DRM for us, stop being such a bunch of lazy people and do it yourself. Helpfully the BBC pre-knows all the restrictions they want (so no need to actually encode the rights data ;)). A *very* simple method: 1. Assign client software a key or set of keys (symmetric or asymmetric doesn't really matter) 2. Take MP4* file prepend the files broadcast date(s). 3. Chose random symmetric encryption key 4. Cypher that data 5. Prepend a copy of the symmetric key encrypted with each client encryption key 6. Client decrypts with it's key and checks the broadcast date, if it's over 7 days old it refuses to play. 7. Job done, go to nearest pub (additionally actually test the software ;)) C = E_c1(k),E_c2(k),...,E_cN(k),E_k(T,P) Where C_x donates encryption under key x. c1,c2 to cN represents client keys 1 2 and N (repeat as needed) k is the item (or episode key) P is the item (or episode) T is the broadcast timestamp Decryption is left as an exercise for the reader^. As long as you don't use a Stream cypher the user will need to know the items key to tamper with the broadcast date, and if they have that key they can decrypt anyway! Might want to use some more complex method for encoding rights data. Weakness is the client key or item key could be compromised, but all DRM schemes have this weakness. It's stronger than plaintext so no less secure the Digital TV. Could probably code that in a few days (provided you have some kind of cryptography library available) * or any other format. ^ if you really can't work out how to do it then ask, but you really should have at least one person capable of understanding this The point here isn't so much that someone has made a download client but has made a download client that allows for the download of DRM free iPlayer files - which is against the terms the BBC have agreed for the iPlayer (I think that's right). The point is the BBC could have added a very simple DRM scheme and have done the same thing. Whether you agree with that or not - it is simple fact. Haven't seen the rights that the BBC have agreed. But if it says Windows DRM Only I would strongly suspect that the agreement may be illegal, particularly given EU vs Microsoft's ruling about tying. Would the BBC care to show us all this alleged document that is tying their hands? And Jem isn't trying to censor the internet - just asking that you talk about 'getting around the DRM on iPlayer files' somewhere that isn't run by the BBC. Trying to restrict discussion of certain topics isn't censorship? What precisely do you call it then? Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
These people that press reply all. Idiots. All of them. ;) Sorry to Nick for exposing my missive to him to the general public. Sorry to Martin for discussing his surname to the general public. And for the record . I flipping hated Balaam and the Angel. Poppy goth rubbish. Jem On 2/6/08 14:19, Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry - but should you be doing this via the backstage list -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jem Stone Sent: 02 June 2008 14:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac You've spelt belam as belham again. Maybe you keep thinking of that lovely bit of south london. But that was balham or the band balaam and the angel. Jem On 2/6/08 13:47, Nick Reynolds-FMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL It didn't say we want secure DRM but not TOO secure either -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: 30 May 2008 16:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac Ryan Morrison wrote: You say Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? But didn't the Trust also set the conditions for DRM? It doesn't say how secure the DRM has to be. And security wise it doesn't really need to be secure at all. After all the Beeb are blasting the programs out of transmitters, in digital form, at higher quality. Security is defined by weakest link. So as long as you make some small effort you're fine, you can't lower the security any more than it is now because their is none. The BBC keeps saying we need someone to write DRM for us, stop being such a bunch of lazy people and do it yourself. Helpfully the BBC pre-knows all the restrictions they want (so no need to actually encode the rights data ;)). A *very* simple method: 1. Assign client software a key or set of keys (symmetric or asymmetric doesn't really matter) 2. Take MP4* file prepend the files broadcast date(s). 3. Chose random symmetric encryption key 4. Cypher that data 5. Prepend a copy of the symmetric key encrypted with each client encryption key 6. Client decrypts with it's key and checks the broadcast date, if it's over 7 days old it refuses to play. 7. Job done, go to nearest pub (additionally actually test the software ;)) C = E_c1(k),E_c2(k),...,E_cN(k),E_k(T,P) Where C_x donates encryption under key x. c1,c2 to cN represents client keys 1 2 and N (repeat as needed) k is the item (or episode key) P is the item (or episode) T is the broadcast timestamp Decryption is left as an exercise for the reader^. As long as you don't use a Stream cypher the user will need to know the items key to tamper with the broadcast date, and if they have that key they can decrypt anyway! Might want to use some more complex method for encoding rights data. Weakness is the client key or item key could be compromised, but all DRM schemes have this weakness. It's stronger than plaintext so no less secure the Digital TV. Could probably code that in a few days (provided you have some kind of cryptography library available) * or any other format. ^ if you really can't work out how to do it then ask, but you really should have at least one person capable of understanding this The point here isn't so much that someone has made a download client but has made a download client that allows for the download of DRM free iPlayer files - which is against the terms the BBC have agreed for the iPlayer (I think that's right). The point is the BBC could have added a very simple DRM scheme and have done the same thing. Whether you agree with that or not - it is simple fact. Haven't seen the rights that the BBC have agreed. But if it says Windows DRM Only I would strongly suspect that the agreement may be illegal, particularly given EU vs Microsoft's ruling about tying. Would the BBC care to show us all this alleged document that is tying their hands? And Jem isn't trying to censor the internet - just asking that you talk about 'getting around the DRM on iPlayer files' somewhere that isn't run by the BBC. Trying to restrict discussion of certain topics isn't censorship? What precisely do you call it then? Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
2008/6/2 Jem Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED]: These people that press reply all. Idiots. All of them. ;) Sorry to Nick for exposing my missive to him to the general public. Sorry to Martin for discussing his surname to the general public. And for the record . I flipping hated Balaam and the Angel. Poppy goth rubbish. http://www.balaamandtheangel.com/ no!! Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Jeremy Stone wrote: Can we have this discussion somewhere else ? This makes life harder for the iPlayer team who will have to look again at what they're doing. this makes life harder for the backstage team who want this list to carry on as unmoderated. We know this stuff is going but discussion and links to it on a bbc hosted list is a no-no as we've pointed out before. I'm sorry to have to agree with Andy (Stude) here, however it seems to me that Andy (Halsall)'s post to the mailing list [1] back in March is as relevant now as it was then. The immediate question that, I would like to ask $[spokesman|admin|person] is, in reference to [1], Why? I appreciate the desire to make things as easy as possible for the poor techies in the middle however, I'm not sure that this is being best solved by *not* asking the difficult questions. As I said before, I am really sorry pushing a sensitive topic however as I have stated, I don't think the importance of it can be understated. [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg07774.html -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Hi all, Apologies if this is a dupe, or old news. Someone (Paul Battley, I think, possibly others) has made a rather nice download client for the streaming iPlayer for the Mac. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3565-enterprising-soul-creates-bbc-iplayer-download-app-for-mac.html http://sourceforge.net/projects/iplayerdownload It uses a ruby script (iplayer-dl) to spoof the iPhone's browser user- agent string, get the secret token and then it grabs the MP4 from the iPhone iPlayer. I've always had trouble with the argument - made somewhat often on this list - that the content protection on services like the iPlayer just had to be 'good enough' to keep the majority from downloading the content (to keep), rather than super-secure in order to keep the tech savvy. This is the proof that that argument is wrong. Obviously the streaming iPlayer doesn't use DRM in a strict sense but the video URLs are obfuscated. You only need one smart person to figure it out and package it into something like this, and everyone can then take advantage, regardless of their level of skill. As long as a user can copy and paste, they can use this programme. See also installing LibDeCSS on Ubuntu - dead simple. So perhaps a download button on the streaming iPlayer (to grab MP4s) isn't such a radical idea? I realise that the BBC is in a very difficult position with regard to third party rights on content, and that it has to make an effort to 'protect' content on rights-holders' behalf. Perhaps it should also point out to rights-holders that technical protection measures are never going to work. Of course, that would make negotiations on further content distribution deals might be a little awkward, but these are the realities. Thoughts? Graeme West --Personal opinion only BTW... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Yes, I saw this pop up on the wiki (http://beebhack.bluwiki.com) last month - great stuff. On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 12:27 PM, Graeme West [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Apologies if this is a dupe, or old news. Someone (Paul Battley, I think, possibly others) has made a rather nice download client for the streaming iPlayer for the Mac. http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3565-enterprising-soul-creates-bbc-iplayer-download-app-for-mac.html http://sourceforge.net/projects/iplayerdownload It uses a ruby script (iplayer-dl) to spoof the iPhone's browser user-agent string, get the secret token and then it grabs the MP4 from the iPhone iPlayer. I've always had trouble with the argument - made somewhat often on this list - that the content protection on services like the iPlayer just had to be 'good enough' to keep the majority from downloading the content (to keep), rather than super-secure in order to keep the tech savvy. This is the proof that that argument is wrong. Obviously the streaming iPlayer doesn't use DRM in a strict sense but the video URLs are obfuscated. You only need one smart person to figure it out and package it into something like this, and everyone can then take advantage, regardless of their level of skill. As long as a user can copy and paste, they can use this programme. See also installing LibDeCSS on Ubuntu - dead simple. So perhaps a download button on the streaming iPlayer (to grab MP4s) isn't such a radical idea? I realise that the BBC is in a very difficult position with regard to third party rights on content, and that it has to make an effort to 'protect' content on rights-holders' behalf. Perhaps it should also point out to rights-holders that technical protection measures are never going to work. Of course, that would make negotiations on further content distribution deals might be a little awkward, but these are the realities. Thoughts? Graeme West --Personal opinion only BTW... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Sorry fellas. Can we have this discussion somewhere else ? This makes life harder for the iPlayer team who will have to look again at what they're doing. this makes life harder for the backstage team who want this list to carry on as unmoderated. We know this stuff is going but discussion and links to it on a bbc hosted list is a no-no as we've pointed out before. thanks Jem Stone. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Paul Battley Sent: Fri 5/30/2008 2:07 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac 2008/5/30 Graeme West [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Apologies if this is a dupe, or old news. Someone (Paul Battley, I think, possibly others) has made a rather nice download client for the streaming iPlayer for the Mac. I'm responsible for the iplayer-dl downloader, but not for the front-end client. I'm not particularly interested in GUIs myself (typical programmer!) but I did refactor the code deliberately to facilitate integration into GUIs in the hope that other people would write them. There's a couple for OS X, but nothing for Windows yet as far as I'm aware. I've always had trouble with the argument - made somewhat often on this list - that the content protection on services like the iPlayer just had to be 'good enough' to keep the majority from downloading the content (to keep), rather than super-secure in order to keep the tech savvy. This is the proof that that argument is wrong. The iplayer-dl program is still difficult to use for the majority, I think - and I haven't gone out of my way to address that. It's a lot easier for Mac users now; if someone writes an easy-to-install Windows front-end (which could be quite easy with rubyscript2exe and Tk, I suspect), it really will be available to the masses. That's a low hurdle to jump. Once it happens, this could be really disruptive. So perhaps a download button on the streaming iPlayer (to grab MP4s) isn't such a radical idea? Technically, it's practically there already. Culturally, it's almost inconceivable. It's entirely an issue of perception. Paul. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Jeremy Stone wrote: Sorry fellas. The BBC supports Gender discrimination now?[1] Can we have this discussion somewhere else ? Why? Is this some kind of cover up? Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? Wouldn't someone else building a client before you indicate that the BBC is not complying with the terms laid down by the Trust. Have you told the Trust you are not complying with their instructions? Is that not running the risk of being considered as fraud, maybe someone should ask the SFO to look at it! This makes life harder for the iPlayer team who will have to look again at what they're doing. You mean they will actually have to comply with the Trust's ruling that iPlayer be Platform Neutral, oh dear people have to do their job how tough for them. this makes life harder for the backstage team who want this list to carry on as unmoderated. To quote John Gilmore The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.[2] Maybe you should go ask all those other people who have tried to censor the internet how well it went. Andy [1] http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?c=1sub=Changeo2=o0=o7=o5=o1=o6=o4=o3=i=-1h=0s=fella [2] http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/outerspace/internet-article.html - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
The only valid compromise I can see, is to move the discussion to the developer list. This is important info, and whether you are for or against it, this is the current state-of-play. Both ourselves and the developers should know where we stand. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
You say Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? But didn't the Trust also set the conditions for DRM? The point here isn't so much that someone has made a download client but has made a download client that allows for the download of DRM free iPlayer files - which is against the terms the BBC have agreed for the iPlayer (I think that's right). Whether you agree with that or not - it is simple fact. And Jem isn't trying to censor the internet - just asking that you talk about 'getting around the DRM on iPlayer files' somewhere that isn't run by the BBC. Seems fair to me. Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeremy Stone wrote: Sorry fellas. The BBC supports Gender discrimination now?[1] Can we have this discussion somewhere else ? Why? Is this some kind of cover up? Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? Wouldn't someone else building a client before you indicate that the BBC is not complying with the terms laid down by the Trust. Have you told the Trust you are not complying with their instructions? Is that not running the risk of being considered as fraud, maybe someone should ask the SFO to look at it! This makes life harder for the iPlayer team who will have to look again at what they're doing. You mean they will actually have to comply with the Trust's ruling that iPlayer be Platform Neutral, oh dear people have to do their job how tough for them. this makes life harder for the backstage team who want this list to carry on as unmoderated. To quote John Gilmore The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.[2] Maybe you should go ask all those other people who have tried to censor the internet how well it went. Andy [1] http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?c=1sub=Changeo2=o0=o7=o5=o1=o6=o4=o3=i=-1h=0s=fella [2] http://www.chemie.fu-berlin.de/outerspace/internet-article.html - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Ryan Morrison wrote: You say Didn't the Trust tell the BBC to produce download clients for other platforms as soon as possible? But didn't the Trust also set the conditions for DRM? It doesn't say how secure the DRM has to be. And security wise it doesn't really need to be secure at all. After all the Beeb are blasting the programs out of transmitters, in digital form, at higher quality. Security is defined by weakest link. So as long as you make some small effort you're fine, you can't lower the security any more than it is now because their is none. The BBC keeps saying we need someone to write DRM for us, stop being such a bunch of lazy people and do it yourself. Helpfully the BBC pre-knows all the restrictions they want (so no need to actually encode the rights data ;)). A *very* simple method: 1. Assign client software a key or set of keys (symmetric or asymmetric doesn't really matter) 2. Take MP4* file prepend the files broadcast date(s). 3. Chose random symmetric encryption key 4. Cypher that data 5. Prepend a copy of the symmetric key encrypted with each client encryption key 6. Client decrypts with it's key and checks the broadcast date, if it's over 7 days old it refuses to play. 7. Job done, go to nearest pub (additionally actually test the software ;)) C = E_c1(k),E_c2(k),...,E_cN(k),E_k(T,P) Where C_x donates encryption under key x. c1,c2 to cN represents client keys 1 2 and N (repeat as needed) k is the item (or episode key) P is the item (or episode) T is the broadcast timestamp Decryption is left as an exercise for the reader^. As long as you don't use a Stream cypher the user will need to know the items key to tamper with the broadcast date, and if they have that key they can decrypt anyway! Might want to use some more complex method for encoding rights data. Weakness is the client key or item key could be compromised, but all DRM schemes have this weakness. It's stronger than plaintext so no less secure the Digital TV. Could probably code that in a few days (provided you have some kind of cryptography library available) * or any other format. ^ if you really can't work out how to do it then ask, but you really should have at least one person capable of understanding this The point here isn't so much that someone has made a download client but has made a download client that allows for the download of DRM free iPlayer files - which is against the terms the BBC have agreed for the iPlayer (I think that's right). The point is the BBC could have added a very simple DRM scheme and have done the same thing. Whether you agree with that or not - it is simple fact. Haven't seen the rights that the BBC have agreed. But if it says Windows DRM Only I would strongly suspect that the agreement may be illegal, particularly given EU vs Microsoft's ruling about tying. Would the BBC care to show us all this alleged document that is tying their hands? And Jem isn't trying to censor the internet - just asking that you talk about 'getting around the DRM on iPlayer files' somewhere that isn't run by the BBC. Trying to restrict discussion of certain topics isn't censorship? What precisely do you call it then? Andy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trying to restrict discussion of certain topics isn't censorship? What precisely do you call it then? It's only censorship if they try to stop ALL discussion on a subject - as the suggestion was that discussion be moved to somewhere else, not stopped completely it isn't censorship - just housekeeping/moderation. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] iPlayer download client for the Mac
s 2008/5/30 Ryan Morrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trying to restrict discussion of certain topics isn't censorship? What precisely do you call it then? It's only censorship if they try to stop ALL discussion on a subject - as the suggestion was that discussion be moved to somewhere else, not stopped completely it isn't censorship - just housekeeping/moderation. /s :-D
