RE: [backstage] Flash everywhere
My main problem with flash isn't flash isn't self, it's a great technology it can do video/picture/sound editing, flashy pretty navigation, nice vistas on technology. My main issue is flash developers, people who commission flash projects, and generally folks that only want flash on their site because it looks pretty. Flash projects and programmers seem to think there above such nice ideals such as progressive enhancement, accessibility, maintenance. Don't get me work flash has many valid and nice uses to me, flash is great for custom web applications embedded on a page, eg video/audio players or nice navigation mechanisms (presuming an html backup exists). However the full flash website idea is a bust to me... Html works quite well why try to reinvent the wheel... normally badly. Wrote all about it yesterday in a bit of a "I've been off work for 3 days and my brain is starting to work again" rant on my blog. The New Adobe Order http://zapper.hodgers.com/blogg/?p=65 Short version - "that means no more application design specifications on napkins please..." -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson Sent: 19 November 2008 23:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere Paul Battley wrote: > 2008/11/19 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> Adobe notes that 98 percent of computers have Flash installed, and it is becoming crucial to have it to enjoy the Internet. That is of course, unless you own an iPhone. > > This is what scares me about Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over > the internet. Being dependent on one company is a practical drawback > as well as an ideological one: there's no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for > example, let alone more obscure platforms, and this is a practical > barrier to the emergence of new technologies. My thoughts exactly. The "98% of (desktop!) computers have Flash installed" is a somewhat self fulfilling prophecy... Personally, I don't have flash installed on any of my computers based on the reasoning that pretty much every *real* website worth it's content won't use flash (the websites which are unusable without flash are often big corporate minisites - like film websites) I make do with several things[1] for the likes of youtube, iplayer etc where the content can be extracted without the use of flash... I don't want to get locked into dependence on a flash-dependent world wide web - so I'm not. Tim [1] http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/168 -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere
Paul Battley wrote: 2008/11/19 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Adobe notes that 98 percent of computers have Flash installed, and it is becoming crucial to have it to enjoy the Internet. That is of course, unless you own an iPhone. This is what scares me about Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over the internet. Being dependent on one company is a practical drawback as well as an ideological one: there's no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for example, let alone more obscure platforms, and this is a practical barrier to the emergence of new technologies. My thoughts exactly. The "98% of (desktop!) computers have Flash installed" is a somewhat self fulfilling prophecy... Personally, I don't have flash installed on any of my computers based on the reasoning that pretty much every *real* website worth it's content won't use flash (the websites which are unusable without flash are often big corporate minisites - like film websites) I make do with several things[1] for the likes of youtube, iplayer etc where the content can be extracted without the use of flash... I don't want to get locked into dependence on a flash-dependent world wide web - so I'm not. Tim [1] http://www.blog.tdobson.net/node/168 -- www.tdobson.net If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us still has one object. If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now has two ideas. - George Bernard Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Flash everywhere
no idea what your on about.sorry. > Subject: Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:17:53 +> > On Wed, > 2008-11-19 at 19:19 +, Paul Battley wrote:> > 2008/11/19 Ian Forrester > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:> > > Adobe notes that 98 percent of computers have Flash > installed, and it is becoming crucial to have it to enjoy the Internet. That > is of course, unless you own an iPhone.> > > > This is what scares me about > Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over> > the internet. Being dependent on > one company is a practical drawback> > as well as an ideological one: there's > no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for> > example, let alone more obscure platforms, > and this is a practical> > barrier to the emergence of new technologies.> > > > > They are increasing the availability of Flash as there is an alpha> version > of Flash 10 for 64-bit Linux that you can download from > > http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/> > Adam> > -> Sent via the > backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial > list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ _ See the most popular videos on the web http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/115454061/direct/01/
Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere
On Wed, 2008-11-19 at 19:19 +, Paul Battley wrote: > 2008/11/19 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Adobe notes that 98 percent of computers have Flash installed, and it is > > becoming crucial to have it to enjoy the Internet. That is of course, > > unless you own an iPhone. > > This is what scares me about Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over > the internet. Being dependent on one company is a practical drawback > as well as an ideological one: there's no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for > example, let alone more obscure platforms, and this is a practical > barrier to the emergence of new technologies. > They are increasing the availability of Flash as there is an alpha version of Flash 10 for 64-bit Linux that you can download from http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/ Adam - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere
On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Paul Battley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is what scares me about Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over > the internet. Being dependent on one company is a practical drawback > as well as an ideological one Flash enjoys a natural monopoly which is not entirely the same thing as an anti-competitive monopoly. MS Silverlight or Google Gears came late to the game but there were no barriers to software companies to compete with Flash. > : there's no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for > example, let alone more obscure platforms, and this is a practical > barrier to the emergence of new technologies. Java also failed to deliver on its promise even though "write once, run anywhere" was central to their strategy. Ideology often doesn't translate to practicality. Trying to support the hundreds of flavors of linux (and gaming consoles and handhelds/microprocessors) can be quite taxing on a company's resources, not to mention more bugs, more regression testing for every feature etc. > I feel the same about the BBC's embrace of Flash's cousin Air - it's > giving Adobe yet more leverage over the computing public. I can see > the pragmatic reasons, but I feel that the BBC has deeper > responsibilities than that. > Air is aiming to creep into the desktop space. Any why shouldn't it? Java set out to do the same thing. Why should developers have to go through a real hard time and rewrite and recompile their apps for each platform? > Paradoxically, I see the very closed iPhone platform as something of a > bulwark against Flash: it's popular enough - especially among a > segment of the population that makes technical decisions - that that > 2% still matters. I really hope that Apple sticks to its decision over > Flash. > You argument is in itself paradoxical. It's ironic you mention that it's a good thing that Apple doesn't support flash but you don't question their motives. Apple has more interest in controlling the vertical which is central to its own strategy and Apple's own interests have taken precedence. If the iPhone did support flash, Apple's own app store and dev community wouldn't be enjoying much if any glory and they wouldn't be able to extend their iTunes model into the app space. If Apple had really though to put the consumer first, they would support Flash because there are hundres of thousands of games and apps that can run directly off the browser and would add tremendously to the user's value proposition (but they would be free and Apple wouldn't make any money or acquire many developers for it's own platform). And again, the purported claims you make against Adobe Flash are even truer of Apple's technologies that run primarily on Apple hardware, running Apple's OS, sold in Apple stores etc. (remember the first iterations of the iPod didn't support USB? Apple even goes to great lengths to erase any traceable marks on the various chips it utilizes). (That is not to say that Apple's fanaticism about controlling the vertical is a bad thing. It actually gives them agility which is easy to see if you contrast them with Windows Mobile which has to regress each feature update or bug fix across a large spectrum of permutations/combinations of different phones, models, manufacturers, screen resolutions, input mechanisms, localizations, etc). Aleem
Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere
Very good thoughts Paul. I'd never thought of it in those terms. Mark On 19 Nov 2008, at 19:19, Paul Battley wrote: 2008/11/19 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: Adobe notes that 98 percent of computers have Flash installed, and it is becoming crucial to have it to enjoy the Internet. That is of course, unless you own an iPhone. This is what scares me about Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over the internet. Being dependent on one company is a practical drawback as well as an ideological one: there's no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for example, let alone more obscure platforms, and this is a practical barrier to the emergence of new technologies. I feel the same about the BBC's embrace of Flash's cousin Air - it's giving Adobe yet more leverage over the computing public. I can see the pragmatic reasons, but I feel that the BBC has deeper responsibilities than that. Paradoxically, I see the very closed iPhone platform as something of a bulwark against Flash: it's popular enough - especially among a segment of the population that makes technical decisions - that that 2% still matters. I really hope that Apple sticks to its decision over Flash. Paul. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Flash everywhere
2008/11/19 Ian Forrester <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Adobe notes that 98 percent of computers have Flash installed, and it is > becoming crucial to have it to enjoy the Internet. That is of course, unless > you own an iPhone. This is what scares me about Flash. Adobe's gaining a monopoly over the internet. Being dependent on one company is a practical drawback as well as an ideological one: there's no Flash for 64-bit Linux, for example, let alone more obscure platforms, and this is a practical barrier to the emergence of new technologies. I feel the same about the BBC's embrace of Flash's cousin Air - it's giving Adobe yet more leverage over the computing public. I can see the pragmatic reasons, but I feel that the BBC has deeper responsibilities than that. Paradoxically, I see the very closed iPhone platform as something of a bulwark against Flash: it's popular enough - especially among a segment of the population that makes technical decisions - that that 2% still matters. I really hope that Apple sticks to its decision over Flash. Paul. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
