[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach

2006-04-13 Thread Stephan . Olbertz
Thanks Sterling. That leads to the question: which editions are available and 
in which 
keys are the works there?
I only know of the editions by Stefan Lundgren, Tree editions and Ut Orpheus 
(H. Smith, not complete yet), but I haven't seen them.
By the way, I just found pics of the whole facsimile of 995: 
http://www.wimmercello.com/bachlute.html
I'm rather new to the baroque lute and it took me quite some time to be able to 
play _anything_ by Bach, but now I can cope. 
I was surprised that some works work quite well, like 998 (I now use an Bb on 
the sixth course, much better than Ab!).
But the low tessitura in 996 still causes me problems, and I would very much 
like to have it easier. 
A. Burguete said in an old article that those difficulties are normal for the 
generation of Reusner, but his opinions are generally a bit 
confusing/confused

Regards,

Stephan

Am 13 Apr 2006 um 0:34 hat sterling price geschrieben:

> Hi-I play 997 in d-minor which works quite well. You
> do need 14 frets though. I play 996 in e-minor. I
> think most people just assume that it won't work in
> e-minor without even trying it. E-minor is a great key
> for the Baroque-lute. I use a version by Michihiko
> Okazawa that is very well done. I have tried other
> versions in different keys and e-minor works the best
> for me.
> Sterling Price
> 
> --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > Dear all,
> > 
> > I'm wondering which keys are favored these days for
> > the Bach "lute" works, and which 
> > editions are commonly used.
> > I played around with PFA in F, D and  Eb the last
> > two days and I think Eb is still the 
> > most reasonable key, although the Praeludium (and
> > only the Praeludium...) is a piece 
> > of cake in D. Am I right in assuming that in Eb the
> > sixth course is also lowered to Ab? 
> > (I seem to remember a historic example for this, but
> > what is it?)
> > 995 is very nice in Am, and 996 seems to be a
> > nightmare in any other key than Gm (I 
> > haven't tried Fm yet, but it certainly looks
> > horrible: 
> >
> http://www.utorpheus.com/misc/pagine_musica/sds004.pdf).
> > I would very much appreciate your views and
> > thoughts.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Stephan
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> >
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> > 
> 
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com 
> 



--


[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach

2006-04-13 Thread Stephan . Olbertz
Many thanks, Mathias, for reminding me of Clive's Page! I never looked at his 
baroque 
lute stuff before (because I didn't own one...). It's a good resource.

Regards,

Stephan


Am 12 Apr 2006 um 22:38 hat Mathias Rösel geschrieben:

> This is what Clive Titmus wrote about BWV 996:
> 
> Praeludio con la suite da Gio. Bast. Bach aufs Lautenwerk
> (BWV 996)
> 
> Foreword:
> 
> A lute transcription of Lautenwerk suite in E minor, BWV 996, is truly
> a daunting task. First it seems neccessary to convince the
> conservative musical community that other than traditional
> connections, there is little reason to suppose that the work was
> written with the lute in mind. The work assumed its present spurious
> identity as Lute Suite No. 1 in spite of the title (supposed to have
> been added by J.G. Walther, who prepared many early keyboard sources
> of Bach's works), and supported by the advocacy of influential German
> scholars who promulgated a lute-playing Bach; Wilhelm Tappert, Albert
> Schweitzer, Hans Neeman and F.G. Giesbert. Despite a valiant attempt
> to debunk this image by Hans Radke in his article War Johannn
> Sebastian Bach Lautenspieler? (1964), the characterization of Bach as
> the composer of four lute suites whose syntopical organization is
> comparable to the suites for violin,cello or harpsichord -- as a
> composer fully conversant with the lute's idiom, and its technical and
> musical potential as a vehicle of large-scale suite composition -- has
> remained.
> 
> A recently-written reference work, the dictionary-style Oxford
> Composer Companion guide to J. S. Bach, edited by Malcolm Boyd, lists
> the suite, along with BWV 995, 997, 998, 999, 1000 and 1006a, as being
> among Bach's 'lute' works, though the suite is clearly full of
> technical impossiblities. A commendably even-handed assessment of the
> arguments about Bach's luterelated repertoire in this volume by T.
> Crawford seems to contradict the classification, turning the tide in
> favour of keyboard origins. If we adopt the view that the lute had
> little direct influence in Bach's musical thinking, it frees us from
> the rationalization that we simply don't understand the lute or its
> music well enough, which was the case when the work was included in
> the first Bach complete publication Bach Gesellschaft (1936), or the
> Neue Bach Ausgabe, (V/10, 1982, T. Kohlhase ed.). The latter
> publication included the piece in a neologist category of Werke für
> Lauteninstrumente, though normally a keyboard instrument would not be
> considered to be in the lute family, whatever its tone-colour and
> stringing.
> 
> Since its initial appearance in the Bach Gessellschaft edition (in its
> E minor and A minor versions) the suite has been widely published in
> many guitar transcriptions, appearing first in Bruger's original
> transcription (still available) for guitar/lute hybrid with additional
> basses and subsequently in transcriptions by Stingl, Wensieki, Bream,
> Bellow, Willard, Scheit, Teuchert, Koonce, et. al. Julian Bream's
> foreword, for example, referred to "...bold figurations so
> characteristic of the lute". Yet none of these publications has
> altered the perception that Bach wrote suites specifically for the
> lute, and in fact most of them have not questioned the principal
> assumptions upon which the transcriptions are made. Despite clear
> passages of luthée style (arpeggiated presentation of a fundamentally
> chordal texture), particularly in the Allemande, Bourée and Sarabande,
> the other movements are obviously far beyond the lute in their thick
> texture(including four-tone chords at cadences, parallel thirds in the
> bass line) and uncharacteristic ornamentation.
> 
> D. Rhodes published a lute transcription (possibly the first?) of the
> work in tablature in 1976, transposed to G minor, in which he argues
> for lute origins: "...the profundity of technical skills which this
> excessively difficult work demands points to an extraordinary player,
> as we know S. L. Weiss to have been..." The tablature transcription
> puts sections of the Gigue and Praeludio into uncomfortably high
> positions on the fingerboard, in addition to transposing many bass
> notes into the lower octave. His adventurous solutions, including a
> change of pitch, single stringing and limited scordatura nevertheless
> render the piece difficult to perform even for experienced and
> technically accomplished players.
> 
> Of these putative lute pieces, the Lautenwerk suite is the earliest of
> the group, supposed to have been composed before 1712, and further
> therefore among the earliest surviving pieces from the composer in
> standard Baroque-period keyboard notation. Without resorting to
> anachronisms such as altered intervals in the standard D minor tuning,
> changing the pitch of the lute to preserve the tonality, single
> stringing (suggested by Rhodes, above), added frets or other devices
> (including mechanical ones, such as fretting devic

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach

2006-04-13 Thread sterling price
Hi-I play 997 in d-minor which works quite well. You
do need 14 frets though. I play 996 in e-minor. I
think most people just assume that it won't work in
e-minor without even trying it. E-minor is a great key
for the Baroque-lute. I use a version by Michihiko
Okazawa that is very well done. I have tried other
versions in different keys and e-minor works the best
for me.
Sterling Price

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> I'm wondering which keys are favored these days for
> the Bach "lute" works, and which 
> editions are commonly used.
> I played around with PFA in F, D and  Eb the last
> two days and I think Eb is still the 
> most reasonable key, although the Praeludium (and
> only the Praeludium...) is a piece 
> of cake in D. Am I right in assuming that in Eb the
> sixth course is also lowered to Ab? 
> (I seem to remember a historic example for this, but
> what is it?)
> 995 is very nice in Am, and 996 seems to be a
> nightmare in any other key than Gm (I 
> haven't tried Fm yet, but it certainly looks
> horrible: 
>
http://www.utorpheus.com/misc/pagine_musica/sds004.pdf).
> I would very much appreciate your views and
> thoughts.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Stephan
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
>
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com