[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Burwell Lute Tutor Pieces

[Arto Wikla]

I second Rob's comment. Thanks Ernst!

Arto

On 3.5.2020 12.31, Rob MacKillop wrote:
>Your Scribd page has amazing treasures, Ernst!
>Rob MacKillop
>
>On Sun, 3 May 2020 at 10:19, <[1]fischer...@aon.at> wrote:
>
> Dear lute friends,
> As you most probably know, the "Burwell Lute Tutor" is a
>  manuscript
> tutor for the baroque lute. The manuscript is Miss Mary Burwell's
>  (born
> 1654) copy of a method written by an Englishman (the name Mr.
>  John
> Rogers has been suggested) who claims was himself a pupil of the
>  French
> Ennemond Gaultier. The teacher corrected Miss Burwell's copy of
>  the
> text and filled in the music examples. Both the "Burwell Lute
>  Tutor"
> and "The Lute Made Easie" (by Thomas Mace, London, 1676) are two
>  very
> authentic and surviving sources of its time teaching in great
>  detail
> from A to Z how to play the baroque lute.
> For teaching practice, the manuscript contains examples of
>  French-style
> lute pieces, mainly fragments and sometimes individual bars only.
>  The
> music examples are chaotic, with both teacher and pupil
>  contributing to
> mistakes Some of the pieces are known, and concordances exist in
>  other
> lute manuscripts, other pieces are new and unique.
> Over the last months or so I tried playing nearly all pieces
>  after I
> identified (if possible), corrected and completed majority of the
> pieces from the Burwell Lute Tutor.
> Please find here the link to my compilation of baroque lute
>  pieces from
> the "Burwell Lute Tutor":
> [1][2]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
> Please stay healthy and resist Corona!
> Ernst Bernhard ("viennalute") from Vienna.
> --
>  References
> 1. [3]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>--
>
> References
>
>1. mailto:fischer...@aon.at
>2. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>3. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
>4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Mimmo,

if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I 
hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic 
version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz 
arclute, great stuff.


And big thanks for your invaluable work!

Arto

On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote:

Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer ones.
at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of gut.
I will do some samples in advance.
Mimmo




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing

[Arto Wikla]

Hi

My first impressions of the Aquila loaded nylgut strings are very good 
(archlute cc, G and F; 2x5th, 6th and 7th).


My 1st check:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7boXtpffL0=youtu.be

And 3 recorded real pieces:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV7q2jxMK3Q=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yspjfd8HIlc=youtu.be
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43ekVyr2BHI=youtu.be

And much more use in continuo...

I recommend!

Arto

On 01/02/17 23:33, Rob MacKillop wrote:

Hi David,

I'm hugely impressed with the new Aquila Loaded Nylgut - see their website for 
details. After three days they settled quickly into tuning, and I rarely have 
to tweak them. Good sound too.

Rob MacKillop


On 1 Feb 2017, at 21:25, David Rastall  wrote:

It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long hiatus. 
 It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of conventional 
wisdom concerning stringing.  I’m playing an 11c lute currently strung with 
silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and trebles.  I’m not so much 
bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, but if you folks can refresh my 
memory:  what is the best choice of basses to get a sustain which is not 
downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter sustain than the silver-wounds?

David R



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: (more readable version) Question about luthiers

[Arto Wikla]

Hi Robin,

I have 3 of them. Here are my very first tests of them, just when I got 
them home:


Hoffmann 11-courser (28.10.2011)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJogB6wxB3U

Venere 7-courser (23.3.2012)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5lzPnVZl_ofeature=youtu.be

Dieffopruchar 10-courser (5.7.2013)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZHYkv7Nsgsfeature=youtu.be

His lutes have clear and strong sound that start sounding fast.

Perhaps this helps?

All the best

Arto

On 14/09/14 11:34, Robin Rolfhamre wrote:


Thank you for your helpful responses, Dieter and Thomas :)

Does anyone have experience with Lauri Niskanen's lutes? Feel free to 
contact me off-list as well.


Best
Robin





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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Svejk Sonata (ms. Podebrady Jelinik)

[Arto Wikla]

   Hi lutenists,
   after having read the great book by J. Hasek, The Good Soldier Svejk,
   I had to play some Czech music... ;-)
   The Sonata is just 3 pieces on consecutive pages in the Czech
   manuscript Podebrady Jelinik (CZ-PnmE36), p. 48-51. The only real
   connection to the Svejk by J. Hasek is that I just finished the great
   book and wanted to play some Czech baroque music. ;-) The three pieces
   are Allemande, Courante and Aria.
   You can find the Sonata in
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be

   And in case someone wishes to play this Sonata - or perhaps just see
   the written music - here are the original handwritten three pieces. (At
   least the Firefox shows it corrupted, but downloading helps.)
   [2]  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/.../11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf


   All the best,
   Arto
   --

References

   Visible links
   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf

   Hidden links:
   4. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2485751181/permalink/10152456331856182/?comment_id152456500146182offset=0total_comments=1


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Svejk Sonata (ms. Podebrady Jelinik)

[Arto Wikla]

Corrected link to the written music:
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf

On 03/06/14 00:24, Arto Wikla wrote:

Hi lutenists,
after having read the great book by J. Hasek, The Good Soldier Svejk,
I had to play some Czech music... ;-)
The Sonata is just 3 pieces on consecutive pages in the Czech
manuscript Podebrady Jelinik (CZ-PnmE36), p. 48-51. The only real
connection to the Svejk by J. Hasek is that I just finished the great
book and wanted to play some Czech baroque music. ;-) The three pieces
are Allemande, Courante and Aria.
You can find the Sonata in
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be

And in case someone wishes to play this Sonata - or perhaps just see
the written music - here are the original handwritten three pieces. (At
least the Firefox shows it corrupted, but downloading helps.)
[2]  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/.../11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf


All the best,
Arto
--

References

Visible links
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDFjR95vZdsfeature=youtu.be
2. http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/SvejkSuite.pdf

Hidden links:
4. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2485751181/permalink/10152456331856182/?comment_id152456500146182offset=0total_comments=1


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: NIIN KAUAN

[Arto Wikla]

Nice version Roman!

Here is my original version made in in the style of the ms. Balcarres' 
pieces that do not use the in those days modern functional harmonies 
but some kind of post pentatonic style.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8f_S67dEGIfeature=youtu.be
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/NiinKauanMinaTramppaan.JPG

The text is quite macho.

1st verse says something like this (in dialect):
Iwalk the paths of this village as long as the soles of my shoes last.
I make love to anyone I wish, and the hags cannot stop that. 

The second verse says something like this: How good a horse I have, and 
how beautiful cart I have. And I guide it by myself. And when you love a 
person, who is peer to you, you need not be too elegant.


All the best,

Arto

On 11/04/14 17:26, Roman Turovsky wrote:


NEW: The 1st tune of 2014!
An Ostrobothnian (Finland) folk song with 2 doubles (11course):
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/finn/niin.mp3
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/finn/niin.pdf
Thanks to Arto Wikla for the tune!
Enjoy!
Amities,
RT






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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Chain of secondary dominants before they were invented...

[Arto Wikla]

Hi lutenists,

I happened to find a nice example of a chain of secondary dominants long 
before they were invented. I've seen them also in other pieces of the 
period, but this one is very clear in one Courante by Valentin Strobel 
in the ms. PL-Kj40620:


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2kC3OUTtcfeature=youtu.be

best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The comet is coming!!!

[Arto Wikla]

Nice idea Danny!  :)

Here is my try
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNtCLv5cqofeature=youtu.be
recorded in 15.2.2013

Arto

On 19/11/13 23:30, DANIEL SHOSKES wrote:

Dear all: as brought to my attention by Cathy Liddell, a new comet is rounding 
the sun and heading for earth's orbit. If it survives the trip, it is believed 
that it might be visible to the naked eye during the day, just like the 1680 
comet which inspired Gallot's chaconne, La Comet.

http://www.jwwerner.com/history/Comet.html

Here's an idea. How about we round up as many baroque lutenists as we can to make an 
audio or video recording of the piece and upload to youtube? We can then have an 
all comet, all the time playlist which we might even be able to pitch to the 
media.

Cathy has made a nice clean Fronimo version which I have uploaded here: 
http://cl.ly/3U3w1u2h0M1V

What do you all think? Please spread the word through any and all lute related 
media and let's have fun with it!! If you do upload, let me know and I’ll keep 
a running tally.

Danny



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Here is(are) the best luthier(s) to make an 11-course lute!

[Arto Wikla]

Thanks to everyone who suggested the best maker of an 11-courser!

All the answers were private, which is very ok.
And here is the list of the suggested makers in alphabetical order:

Karl Kichmeyr
Dan Larson
Renatus Lechner
Ivo Magherini
Stephen Murphy
Renzo Salvador
Michael Schreiner
Clive Titmuss

I really do believe they all are very good!

All the best and thanks,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Best luthier to make 11-coursers?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

who do you regard as the best maker of 11-course lutes? I suppose my 
question is only theoretical, because her/his instruments are probably 
priced above my economical possibilites, though... ;-)


Anyhow, 11-courser is very addictive; much more than I could imagine 
some years ago.


Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] The tabulature of Mr. Leslie of the Balcarres ms.

[Arto Wikla]

In case someone wants to play these pieces, here is my practical 
performance facsimile:


http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LeslieSuite/

Best,

Arto

On 30/08/13 22:17, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,
Master Leslie or Mr. Leslie wrote only 5 pieces to the Scottish
manuscript Balcarres in the normal baroque tuning in d-minor - there
are some more pieces in the D-major tuning and also in some other
tuning...
Anyhow, I just tubed those 5, and then glued them also together to
form a suite
In case someone unexpectedly happens to be interested, here is the link
to this suite:
   [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
The separate parts with information are:
102: Scotts tune, by mr. Leslie
[2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5...
127: Imperial sweetnesse, by Master Leslie
[3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXA...
129: Lully/Mr. Leslie: Belle hereuse, by Mr. Leslie
[4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7Hf...
130: My own dear honey, be kind to me, ..., by mr. Leslie
[5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0aj...
115: The Lady Errol's delight, the 3d way, mr. Leslie's way
[6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuL...
I actually enjoyed very much of my humble try to understand the
Scottish soul! :-)
All the best,
Arto
--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5A_lpAfeature=youtu.be
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXAdSNaIfeature=youtu.be
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7HfoG_fkfeature=youtu.be
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0ajtSRQIfeature=youtu.be
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuLlKK2wfeature=youtu.be


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Mr. Leslie of the Balcarres ms.

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear baroque lutenists,
   Master Leslie or Mr. Leslie wrote only 5 pieces to the Scottish
   manuscript Balcarres in the normal baroque tuning in d-minor - there
   are some more pieces in the D-major tuning and also in some other
   tuning...
   Anyhow, I just tubed those 5, and then glued them also together to
   form a suite
   In case someone unexpectedly happens to be interested, here is the link
   to this suite:
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
   The separate parts with information are:
   102: Scotts tune, by mr. Leslie
   [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5...
   127: Imperial sweetnesse, by Master Leslie
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXA...
   129: Lully/Mr. Leslie: Belle hereuse, by Mr. Leslie
   [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7Hf...
   130: My own dear honey, be kind to me, ..., by mr. Leslie
   [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0aj...
   115: The Lady Errol's delight, the 3d way, mr. Leslie's way
   [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuL...
   I actually enjoyed very much of my humble try to understand the
   Scottish soul! :-)
   All the best,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsbOz3mlaMwfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0haNJ5A_lpAfeature=youtu.be
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_gKXAdSNaIfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keX7HfoG_fkfeature=youtu.be
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSA0ajtSRQIfeature=youtu.be
   6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yLuLlKK2wfeature=youtu.be


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Beautiful melody!

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists, b- and r-,

I happened to find an exceptionally good melody in the baroque lute 
manuscript RA-BAn, Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos Aires, Biblioteca Nacional. 
It is a Sarabande with its (quite interestingly made) Double. The 
composer is not known thus far today, but I strongly suppose, s/he 
is/must be some of the great names around the year 1700!


It of course could be played better, but my try - anyhow - is in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzwpVeqtyX0feature=youtu.be
and
  http://vimeo.com/68787827

Most Best Midsummer!  :-)

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] My 400th ;-)

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear lutenists, b- and r-,
   someone told me that it is something special, when you reach your 400th
   playing to y-tube. Perhaps it is, perhaps not. Anyhow, I started by
   several normal pocket digital cameras with their very lousy sound
   quality, did also some (bad) video editing in those days. Then to Zoom
   O3. Much better sound, but the automatic volume control spoiled
   (nearly) all the tries to piano e forte... You know, what I mean...;-)
   Then to the Zoom O3 HD. With that you first give your loudest sound; it
   takes that as the volume level. If you do it right, it works. But if
   you happen to for ex. to cough, when the recording has started, you'll
   get very quiet lute sound...;-)
   And then with the baroque lute I had mostly unsuccessful - but very
   (too?) persistent - try on the gut strings. There are some quite
   ashamed examples there in the y-tube... But I am not going to hide the
   history. ;)
   In the beginning I recorded many of my own arrangements - which I also
   published in my pages - to show that they are playable.
   There are pieces to 6-courser, 10-courser in different tunings, soprano
   lute, chitarrino - renaissance guitar, theorbo in high d and two in
   normal a, and a couple 11-coursers, ...
   As easily can be seen, I really got addicted to the 11-course d-minor
   lute; to me it is  by far the most clever tuning to the music of its
   time (second is the 6-courser in the 16th century music).
   So, my 400th y-tubing is a German aria Warum Klagstu das du dein
   Leben in the D-LEm ms. II.6.24.
   And thus I am not going to complain my life!  ;-)
   See:
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmHMv62K5Yfeature=youtu.be
 (or [2]http://vimeo.com/68153116, but there it is not the 400th...)
   Btw: I never have done any sound editing to my recordings. No echo, no
   nothing, just the living room acoustics. And since the Zoom Q3's, my
   video editing has just been clipping the before and after
   movements.
   All the best and happy playing,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmHMv62K5Yfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/68153116


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] An interesting German song arr to lute solo

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

today I happened to find an interesting song setting to lute solo, quite 
well made, in the D-LEm ms. II.6.24, Leipzig, Städtische Bibliotheken, 
Musikbibliothek. The piece is also named interestingly: Die weil ich 
nun Kein Weib nicht habe u. auch noch keines haben will.


Does anyone happen to know this song?

My try with a Saraband just following this song is in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbrP9uGWLn0feature=youtu.be
and also
  http://vimeo.com/67669112

(btw Vimeo seems to be vanishing...)

Best,

Arto

PS This list seems to be quite passive in these days. Wayne, how many 
subscribers are there nowadays?




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Kalivoda Suite in g-minor

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists, baroque and not baroque,

my tiny project of playing a small lute suite of early music as seen 
in the 1720's is now kind of completed. The pieces are quite good - I 
guess better than my playing? - and not too difficult. Below you'll find 
links that perhaps are useful to you; easy access to a nice and easily 
liked suite to perform to those, who already are baroque lutenists, 
and positive propaganda to the hesitating not-yet baroque lutenists...;-)


Here is my explanation (and the links after you have read the story):
-
This suite is early music as seen in the 1720's! The pieces are on 
the consecutive pages in the manuscript RA-BAn, Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos 
Aires, Biblioteca nacional, the so called Kalivoda manuscript, which 
was composed around 1720's; there is a lot of music by the late baroque 
lutenists there: Weiss, Weichenberger, Pichler, ... And the author of 
this ms. collected this suite by early to middle French baroque lute 
pieces! Two of the pieces are by Merville, one piece by Pinel and one by 
Pierre Gaultier. The composer of two pieces are not known for the 
moment. Perhaps the author of RA-BAn himself composed these?

-

The written music can be found in
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/KalivodaSuiteInGm/

And my playing the suite in
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPSpgSB8_64feature=youtu.be

Perhaps beginning baroque lutenists can find some ideas of my fingerings 
etc? Although I really am quite unotrhodox here and there. And what is 
good and what is bad to your hands, is very individual! Anyhow, I 
suppose my examples could be useful - perhaps as good examples and 
perhaps also as bad examples.


Happy playing,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] More early early music in 1720's, N. de Merville

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

The ms. RA-BAn Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos Aires, Biblioteca nacional, the 
the so called Kalivoda Ms., contains mainly music of the Weiss' times, 
Weiss included. But strangely enough, it seems to have also some early 
music as seen in 1720's.


My second try in this is a Sarabande by Nicolas de Merville (b c1600; d 
after 1643):

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dBL68uEucofeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/67149299

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Pierre Gaultier in 1720! Old early music?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lute friends  (cc to the main list)

I happened to find something interesting: A Courante by Pierre Gaultier 
in a ms. of much later times,


The Courante comes from ms. RA-BAn Ms. 236.R-13769, Buenos Aires, 
Biblioteca nacional, fol. 109v. The composer, Pierre Gaultier, was 
active nearly a century before this manuscript! He published this piece 
in his printed book already in 1638, and the ms. RA-BAn is assumed have 
been written around 1720. What is also interesting, is that Pierre wrote 
this piece in one of the transitional tunings, accords noveaux. And 
in about 1720 it was transcribed to the normal baroque lute d-minor 
tuning! So this piece is in a way early music as seen in 1720. But was 
it HIP, while the tuning was changed? ;-)


You can find my try on this piece in
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsygnpU_2h8feature=youtu.be

At least the composition is good...  :-)

All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lully, Rondeau and its form (shape)?

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear baroque lutenists (and cc to the main Lute list, because the
   baroque list is so silent nowadays...)
   As we all know, very many pieces by Lully were transcribed to lutes and
   theorbo all around the lute playing Europe in those days. I happened
   to meet - once again - one in the Austrian ms. A-Wn ms. 17706, a
   transcription of a Rondeau in Lully's Persee (Perseus), Acte IV,
   Scene VI (LWV 60/73).
   You can see the Viennese tabulature here:

   [1]http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPersee
   Tab.jpg
   And the Lully original is here:

   [2]http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPersee
   .jpg
   And my modest try to play the piece is here
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RLDPykxpIEfeature=youtu.be
   and also here
  [4]http://vimeo.com/66412320
   I kind of corrected(?) a couple of tiny things in the beginning of the
   C section. Thrusting Lully more than the lute ms. Did I make a sin? ;-)
   But my main question concerns the form of the piece: there are 3
   sections in that piece:
 A (8 bars), B (10 bars) and C (8 bars).
   The ms. just gives the form ABC. The original  Persee version seems to
   have the form ABACA.  And I just happened to like to play it as
   AABACCAA. Why? Well that just sounded right? Did I brake some rules? Am
   I a sinner in doing so? ;-)
   Best,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. 
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPerseeTab.jpg
   2. http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/11_courseLute/LullyRondoPersee.jpg
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RLDPykxpIEfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/66412320


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rhetorique on-line?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Andreas,

that sounds highly interesting!  I am already eagerly waiting for your 
350 pages' Gaultier bible!


Arto

On 20/03/13 11:12, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

Dear Arto,

Be careful with the Rhétorique! It's not a source with any specially authorised 
versions of Gaultier's works! The connection between Denis Gaultier and the 
written tablature is absolutely not clear - if there exist any connection at 
all (beside of the fact that there is music by Denis and Ennemond Gaultier in 
the Rhétorique)!
François-Pierre Goy and me will publish this summer our very large work on this source and all the 
33 pieces, written by Notator B in 6 sources. It's a very, very tricky story - and 
that's the reason for our around 350 pages (who will also include Goy's phantastic 
Gaultier-Werkverzeichnis and facsimiles of 2 complete sources and parallel editions of 
all 33 pieces written by Notator B)!

All the best,

Andreas

Am 19.03.2013 um 21:30 schrieb Arto Wikla:


Dear baroque lutenists,

does anyone know, whether there is an on-line version of the facsimile of the 
Rhetorique des Dieux by Denis Gaultier? The pictures of the ms. are in the Net, 
but what about the tabulature, the actual music? Modern edition there is, and 
also many versions of most of those pieces appear in many other mss., but it 
anyhow would be interesting to see also the famous Rhetorique as it really is...

All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Another piece about the unhappy Queen of Sweden

[Arto Wikla]

In the Rhetorique des Dieux:  Artemise ou l'Oraison funebre,
in the ms.ETGoessII C(ourante) G(aultier) sur L'entree de La Reine de 
Suede dans Paris:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN7ui491_7Ifeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/61828222

best,

Arto

On 12/03/13 22:49, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists

In case someone is interested, I just tubed a direct and unedited 
home recording of an extremist French baroque lute description of a 
couple of very strong ladies of their times:


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB0P_IXqm5kfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/61645403

best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Swedish von Düben

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

when I started to study the baroque lute 3 years and some months ago, 
one of my first tries was one at least historically interesting piece - 
and at least to us Finns, Swedes and probably also Russians:


This anonymous lute arrangement of of a marche by Anders von Düben comes 
from ms. Kalmar KLM 21.068. fol. 10v.The original name by von Düben is 
Marche pour les Suedois - Narvamarschen and it is part of the 
Comedie-balett: Narvabaletten, first performed 6 february 1701. The 
piece was composed to celebrate the victory of the Swedish king Charles 
XII (Karl XII) of his opponent Peter the Great of Russia in Narva, 
January 1700.


My hopefully a little bit more polished version, recorded today, is in

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTvH3x38-4g

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Comets, asteroids and meteors today...

[Arto Wikla]

   Hi b-lutenists,
   I just made my 2nd pathetic try on La Comete, Chaconne du V.Gallot
   into the tubes:
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNtCLv5cqofeature=youtu.be
 [2]http://vimeo.com/59757771
   Very far from perfect performance, but today it was the most perfect
   day to play an astronomic baroque piece: asteroid and meteors! 3rd
   version when I practise more... ;-)
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeNtCLv5cqofeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/59757771


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] ... a tiny Rondo by a tiny Count ...

[Arto Wikla]

.. just in (the rare) case someone is interested:

Rondaut Comte d'Logy (US-NYpMYO, f.33v-34r)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZsNLTeD7iofeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/57699391

Arto

On 16/01/13 21:51, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find a Courante by Losy that starts very French way, but 
in the B section goes to some kind of Sturm und Drang. Perhaps Losy 
is an interesting case, anyhow... ;-)


Courante Comte d'Logy (US-NYpMYO, f.31v-32r):
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BmzF8WQpYfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/57548408

best,

Arto




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Sturm und Drang before Sturm und Drang...

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find a Courante by Losy that starts very French way, but 
in the B section goes to some kind of Sturm und Drang. Perhaps Losy is 
an interesting case, anyhow... ;-)


Courante Comte d'Logy (US-NYpMYO, f.31v-32r):
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BmzF8WQpYfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/57548408

best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: La prima sera in NYp-MYO: composer and structure?

[Arto Wikla]

Thank you Arthur!

So there anyway is something to note in this piece... At least to the 
writer of this interesting ms.


best wishes,

Arto

On 14/01/13 20:38, Arthur Ness wrote:

It looks like a ligated (joined) NB, the abbreviation for Nota Bene.
The last down stroke on N and the downstroke on B are the same.
That's what the facsimile looks like, as far as I can tell.

I've seen NB in the K'berg manuscript to draw attention to pieces for
ensemble of
two - four lutes.  (I'm not suggesting it indicated a duet here. Cannot
find my notes on the NY manuscripts.)
inding ms.
ajn
- Original Message - From: Arto Wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:29 PM
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: La prima sera in NYp-MYO: composer and
structure?



In case someone wants to investigate the original title, you can see it
here:
   http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/NB.JPG

Any clarifications?

Arto

On 11/01/13 21:05, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque musicians,

I just tubed the curious La prima sera by NB (or AB?) in the 
ms.

US-NYpMYO. Who (or what) could this NB be? I could not find info of
that in the nice edition of the ms. by Michael Treder (Tree 2012). 
Maybe

I did not read his analysis enough - my reading German is very slow...
Anyone remembers some active composer N.B. or A.B. in Vienna around 
1700?
Not necessarily lutenist, for NB could also be the composer of the 
song?

And what about the song? Anyone happens to know,where it comes from?

My plays are in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_hEcbr6xr0feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/57226475

Another interesting(?) question about the form of the piece (aria?):

The piece has a short A part, four measures.
The B part has three sections, b1 (4 bars), b2 (2 bars), b3 (2 bars).
There are some repeat marks (well, who knows, what they actually
are...;)

The written form is:
  A :|: b1 |: b2 |: b3 :|

I played it like this:
  A A b1 b2 b2 b3 b3 b1 b2 b2 b3 b3 A A

So I took the b2 as an inside the B repeat, and the b3 as the petite
reprise.

Perhaps the B part should be
   b1 b2 b3 b2 b3 b3?
So, first a longer petite reprise and then a shorter petite 
reprise?


Repeating the A at the end just felt right. There is strong sense of a
da capo aria in this piece, at least to my understanding. No clues of
that in the ms., though...

For some reason or another, Michael T. has left out the repeat 
marks(?)

of the B part in his edition.

all the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Entertainment or art?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque musicians,

in case my direct, unedited, not echo-boosted home recordings insult 
you, please delete this mail immediately!  ;-)


If you did not:
I just tubed an Endre (Entree) and an Aria in A-major from 
US-NYpMYO. They are kind of simply pieces, the Endre perhaps even sounds 
etyde-like. On the other hand they are in some way quite different 
compared to the normal 1700 Austrian lute music. And at end not so 
easy, anyway...


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ffDaQ4lCjAfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/57394299

So is this pop or art? Or perhaps there is/was no clear separation 
between the genres? I actually tend to think so...


best wishes,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] A dramatic Aria in US-NYpMYO. Anyone recognises?

[Arto Wikla]

Hi lutenists,

An Aria with a mini Prelude:

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WWgw-wJ2ofeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56928250

Anyone recognises this Aria? it is probably an Italian opera aria that 
was known in Vienna sometime around 1700.


Arto

On 29/12/12 22:25, Arto Wikla wrote:


And then even more enigmatic piece, perhaps an Aria, but the ms. 
doesn't say anything:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbqkySdnEYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/56475029

All the best,

Arto

On 27/12/12 22:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms. 
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. 
If somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me 
know!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A dramatic Aria in US-NYpMYO. Anyone recognises?

[Arto Wikla]

Markus,

you are really fast in finding concordances!!  :-)
The D-B40627 seems to an interesting ms., too. And I do not yet have 
that... ;) ;)   (blink, blink!)


best,

Arto

On 07/01/13 21:40, Markus Lutz wrote:

Hi Arto,
I don't know it either, but I found another concordance of it:

= Aria ex B
g-moll-   D-B40627 / 63v

Best regards
Markus


Am 07.01.2013 20:30, schrieb Arto Wikla:

Hi lutenists,

An Aria with a mini Prelude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0WWgw-wJ2ofeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/56928250

Anyone recognises this Aria? it is probably an Italian opera aria that
was known in Vienna sometime around 1700.

Arto

On 29/12/12 22:25, Arto Wikla wrote:


And then even more enigmatic piece, perhaps an Aria, but the ms.
doesn't say anything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMbqkySdnEYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/56475029

All the best,

Arto

On 27/12/12 22:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms.
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though.
If somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me
know!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] An anonymous Aria sounds so familiar...

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

I happened to find an unknown Aria by an unknown composer in ms. 
US-NYpMYO, fol. 13v. The piece sounds irritatingly familiar, though. If 
somebody happens to know the piece or the composer, please let me know!


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLKS1PX9B14feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/56385493

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Austrian(?) baroque in a New Yorkian ms.

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

a tiny Preludium and an Allamande in the US-NYpMYO:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=293ITxEklvQfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/56162661

Not very difficult pieces at all!

But I really do like the often very economic style of the early and 
middle baroque - especially compared to the never ending repeating of 
all the phrases again and again, which so often happens in the late 
baroque music... ;-)


Most enjoyable holiday time to all of you - with any name you happen to 
want to give to this period!


Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Still more de Visee...

[Arto Wikla]

   Robert was not too bad a composer...
   This time I tried his quite difficult Tombeau de Du But, Allemande de
   Mr de Visee
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD53XcEFA_Ufeature=youtu.be
 [2]http://vimeo.com/55634133
   It could be played better, but for the moment I couldn't... ;-)
   Best,
   Arto
   On 07/12/12 21:57, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Just in case someone is interested, I played today a Sarabande in F
 major by de Visee. Could be played cleaner, but the piece is quite
 intersting:
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHCOlVzffxkfeature=youtu.be
   [4]http://vimeo.com/55120326
 Arto
 PS Below my earlier d-minor lute de Visees:
 On 28/11/12 21:45, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Hi again dear pluckers,
 La Mutine, Allemande de Mr de Visee is a strange piece - some
 more or
 less odd harmonies and other unexpected things happening here
 and
 there. Just in case interested, my try is in

 [1][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq8e9dq-Y3sfeature=youtu.be
 and also in
[2][6]http://vimeo.com/54467209
 I tried to find out the meaning of mutine. There were many.
 And I did
 not find out, what of those meanings de Visee might have been
 thinking...
 Best,
 Arto
 I wrote earlier:
   Well, in case someone is interested, I tried to play an
 Allemande in
   D major by de Visee - thematically there perhaps are some
   connections to the Corelli Courante?

 [3][7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWFYGKF59aMfeature=youtu.be
 [4][8]http://vimeo.com/53743753
   I suppose this Allemande is a unique version, and only to the
   d-minor tuned lute?
   best,
   Arto
   On 16/11/12 22:02, Arto Wikla wrote:
   Dear lutenists of every type and baroque guitarists,
   I find it quite interesting that monsieur de Visee made
 some
   arrangements of some of the most famous composers of his
 time. I
   tried
   to play one Corelli arr by him:

 [1][5][9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
 [2][6][10]http://vimeo.com/53697535
   Does anyone here happen to know, for what medium the
 model, the
   Corelli, Opera 2a Sonata 10a happens to be?
   Best,
   Arto
   PS Below are the links to my tiny recent efforts of trying
 to
   understand de Visee style of writing to the d-minor lute.
   On 09/11/12 21:25, I wrote:
 I just tried to play my version ofthe famous Chaconne to
   theorbo
 arranged to baroque lute. Possibly by the composer
 himself? Or
   not
 by him? Who knows...

 [3][7][11]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.b
 e
[4][8][12]http://vimeo.com/53172045
 Still another de Visee, kind of bagpipe simulation (just
   remembering
 my Scottish set ;-)
Robert de Visee: La Muzette in A major and A minor

 [5][9][13]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.b
 e
 [6][10][14]http://vimeo.com/52755172
 Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor

 [7][11][15]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.
 be
 [8][12][16]http://vimeo.com/51821674
 Robert de Visee: La Montfermeil, Rondeau in A minor

 [9][13][17]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.
 be
 [10][14][18]http://vimeo.com/52176020
 Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor

 [11][15][19]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu
 .be
 [12][16][20]http://vimeo.com/52292492
   --
   References
   1.

 [17][21]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
   2. [18][22]http://vimeo.com/53697535
   3.

 [19][23]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
   4. [20][24]http://vimeo.com/53172045
   5.

 [21][25]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
   6. [22][26]http://vimeo.com/52755172
   7.

 [23][27]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   8. [24][28]http://vimeo.com/51821674
   9.

 [25][29]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  10. [26][30]http://vimeo.com/52176020
  11.

 [27][31]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
  12. [28][32]http://vimeo.com/52292492
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   [29][33]http

[BAROQUE-LUTE] An Allemande by de Visee has something in common with the Corelli Courante?

[Arto Wikla]

Well, in case someone is interested, I tried to play an Allemande in D 
major by de Visee - thematically there perhaps are some connections to 
the Corelli Courante?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWFYGKF59aMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/53743753

I suppose this Allemande is a unique version, and only to the d-minor 
tuned lute?


best,

Arto

On 16/11/12 22:02, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of every type and baroque guitarists,
I find it quite interesting that monsieur de Visee made some
arrangements of some of the most famous composers of his time. I tried
to play one Corelli arr by him:
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
  [2]http://vimeo.com/53697535
Does anyone here happen to know, for what medium the model, the
Corelli, Opera 2a Sonata 10a happens to be?
Best,
Arto
PS Below are the links to my tiny recent efforts of trying to
understand de Visee style of writing to the d-minor lute.
On 09/11/12 21:25, I wrote:

  I just tried to play my version ofthe famous Chaconne to theorbo
  arranged to baroque lute. Possibly by the composer himself? Or not
  by him? Who knows...
 [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
 [4]http://vimeo.com/53172045

  Still another de Visee, kind of bagpipe simulation (just remembering
  my Scottish set ;-)
 Robert de Visee: La Muzette in A major and A minor
  [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
  [6]http://vimeo.com/52755172

  Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
  [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  [8]http://vimeo.com/51821674
  Robert de Visee: La Montfermeil, Rondeau in A minor
  [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  [10]http://vimeo.com/52176020
  Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor
  [11]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
  [12]http://vimeo.com/52292492

--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxuJ8PZgn18feature=youtu.be
2. http://vimeo.com/53697535
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
4. http://vimeo.com/53172045
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
6. http://vimeo.com/52755172
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
8. http://vimeo.com/51821674
9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   10. http://vimeo.com/52176020
   11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
   12. http://vimeo.com/52292492


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Preludes by Vieux Gaultier ???

[Arto Wikla]

Sorry, it is in A MAJOR

On 15/11/12 20:04, Arto Wikla wrote:


Dear Jean-Marie,

in GB-Ob ms. G.617 there seems to be one Prelude de Gautier de P, p. 
120-121, in A minor. Peter S's pages say it is V. Gaultier. Isn't the 
P for Paris?


All the best,

Arto


On 15/11/12 12:44, Jean-Marie Poirier wrote:

Thank you Andreas, Bernd and Peter for your answers.
I will be looking forward to F.-P. Goy's book on Gaultier's works...
So far it seems to confirm my impression that there is no extant 
prelude by Vieux Gaultier, which seems incredible but... Probably 
some of his preludes are hidden among anonymous pieces as in Oxford 
G 618 where an unattributed Prelude appears in the midst of a series 
of pieces by Vieux Gaultier...


I will have to choose among those unattributed Preludes to serve as 
an introductory piece for suites by old Ennemond ;-) !


Thanks to all and if you discover something about that mystery please 
don't hesitate to share !


All the best,

Jean-Marie
=
   == En réponse au message du 14-11-2012, 18:19:54 ==


Dear infallible Collective Wisdom ;-),

Would anyone be aware of Prelude(s) by Vieux Gaultier (Ennemond). My 
CNRS old edition doesn't have any... If you know of the existence of 
such pieces, could you cite the sources where they may be found, 
please?


Thank you in advance for your unremitting generous help,

All the best,

Jean-Marie Poirier



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] The famous de Visee Chaconne as lute version

[Arto Wikla]

Hi again dear pluckers,

I just tried to play my version ofthe famous Chaconne to theorbo 
arranged to baroque lute. Possibly by the composer himself? Or not by 
him? Who knows...


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYUfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/53172045

I know the theorbo version - great piece. But is there a version to 
baroque guitar, too? It would be nice to hear also that!


Best,

Arto



Still another de Visee, kind of bagpipe simulation (just remembering 
my Scottish set ;-)


   Robert de Visee: La Muzette in A major and A minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx382Lb2djwfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/52755172

Below the earlier...

Arto


Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51821674

Robert de Visee: La Montfermeil, Rondeau in A minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/52176020

Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/52292492

Best,

Arto




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] From Scotland back to France ...

[Arto Wikla]

   ... and then F# minor again:
Robert de Visee: Gavotte in F# minor
   [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
   [2]http://vimeo.com/52292492
   best,
   Arto
   On 25/10/12 23:03, Arto Wikla wrote:

   ... and then my 2nd try of La Montfermeil, Rondeau by de Visee:
  [1][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  [2][4]http://vimeo.com/52176020
   best,
   Arto
   On 20/10/12 22:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Dear baroque lutenists,
 after having played some Scottish lute music I came back to France
 to the court of Louis XIV in F# minor:
   Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
  [3][5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  [4][6]http://vimeo.com/51821674
 Best,
 Arto
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5][7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. [8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   2. [9]http://vimeo.com/52176020
   3. [10]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   4. [11]http://vimeo.com/51821674
   5. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VlBbuW22zYfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/52292492
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/52176020
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   6. http://vimeo.com/51821674
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   9. http://vimeo.com/52176020
  10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  11. http://vimeo.com/51821674
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Vienna lute music 1672

[Arto Wikla]

Beautiful!

Thank you Bernhard!

Arto

PS What is Peter Steur's code for this ms.?
PS2 Can the pdf be found somewhere?


On 24/10/12 11:49, Bernhard Fischer wrote:

Dear lute friends,


The Austrian National Library owns a baroque lute manuscript
hand-written by the composer Johann Gotthard Peyer. From 1672 to 1678
Johann Gotthard Peyer was chaplain of the Imperial Court's orchestra in
Vienna/Austria. According to records his annual salary was 200 Gulden.


His baroque lute tabulature is attributed to Leopold I (1640 - 1705),
Holy Roman Emperor, King of Hungary and King of Bohemia as we can read
from the title page in Latin language Lesus testudine tenoris gallici
teutonico laboretextus. Quem: Augustissimo ac Inuictissimo Romanorum
Imperatori Leopoldo :I: Hungariae Boehmiaeque Regi, Archidci Austrae
ec.ec. Apillini ac Domino suo Clementissimo. In submississimae
Deuotiotionis argumentum. Concinnauit ac humillime dedicauit Infumus
Vasalus. Joannes Gotthardus Peyer: SS: Thlgae sac: Canonumque
candidatus Presbyter.


From this inscription it is clear that Peyer presented his music in
person to Leopold I.


As good as possible in my study room I recorded first time the
Allemande, the Sarabande and the Caprize in d-minor from the
manuscript.


Combined video: [1]http://youtu.be/UvPcoPCuObg

Single video Allemande: [2]http://youtu.be/5jc-2l_-tFs

Single video Sarabande: [3]http://youtu.be/WaRSIq14pso

Single video Caprize: [4]http://youtu.be/CtnrCEmJ5Tg


I appreciate your comments, critics and suggestions.


Bernhard

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - -

Dilettante de la musique pour le luth

Tel.:  +43-664-1432919

Fax.: +43-1-25330337795

Mail: [5]fischer...@aon.at


--

References

1. http://youtu.be/UvPcoPCuObg
2. http://youtu.be/5jc-2l_-tFs
3. http://youtu.be/WaRSIq14pso
4. http://youtu.be/CtnrCEmJ5Tg
5. mailto:fischer...@aon.at


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] From Scotland back to France ...

[Arto Wikla]

   ... and then my 2nd try of La Montfermeil, Rondeau by de Visee:
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
  [2]http://vimeo.com/52176020
   best,
   Arto
   On 20/10/12 22:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

 Dear baroque lutenists,
 after having played some Scottish lute music I came back to France
 to the court of Louis XIV in F# minor:
   Robert de Visee: Pastoralle in F# minor
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
  [4]http://vimeo.com/51821674
 Best,
 Arto
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZpGmZaP1u8feature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/52176020
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mI7z6tOU_2Qfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/51821674
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Devo's gige, by mr. Beck

[Arto Wikla]

.. I could not resist --- as I told, addictive it is ... ;-)

Devo's gige, by mr. Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ohrvaneF4feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/51355922

All the best,

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I already decided to come back to the Continental lute repertoire, but 
couldn't yet... ;)


In many years I tried to understand the Scottish lute music, but could 
not - it just looked like some aleatoric computer generated random 
stuff. But for some reason or another I happened to take another look 
to the Balcarres ms. about 1.5 moths ago, and I was hooked... I 
suppose and accept that my playing probably is not acceptable at all 
by the really hard core Scottish musicians, but anyhow to me this has 
been very interesting and happy journey to the Scottish mentality - 
which by the way doesn't seem to be so very far off from the Finnish 
type of melancholy...


Today I tried the Tarphicken, mr. Beck's way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7q4N6lVOAMfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51302185

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Who or what was is this Devo?

[Arto Wikla]

Who or what could that Devo in the Balcarres ms. be?  Matthew Spring 
doesn't give any explanation in his great analysis of the ms. Could it 
be the Devil himself? Or perhaps some Scottish family or person? Or 
perhaps just only some reference to nature or to some everyday item?


Arto

On 13/10/12 22:30, Arto Wikla wrote:


.. I could not resist --- as I told, addictive it is ... ;-)

Devo's gige, by mr. Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ohrvaneF4feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/51355922

All the best,

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I already decided to come back to the Continental lute repertoire, 
but couldn't yet... ;)


In many years I tried to understand the Scottish lute music, but 
could not - it just looked like some aleatoric computer generated 
random stuff. But for some reason or another I happened to take 
another look to the Balcarres ms. about 1.5 moths ago, and I was 
hooked... I suppose and accept that my playing probably is not 
acceptable at all by the really hard core Scottish musicians, but 
anyhow to me this has been very interesting and happy journey to the 
Scottish mentality - which by the way doesn't seem to be so very far 
off from the Finnish type of melancholy...


Today I tried the Tarphicken, mr. Beck's way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7q4N6lVOAMfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51302185

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Well, the Balcarres ms. really is addictive!

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I already decided to come back to the Continental lute repertoire, but 
couldn't yet... ;)


In many years I tried to understand the Scottish lute music, but could 
not - it just looked like some aleatoric computer generated random 
stuff. But for some reason or another I happened to take another look to 
the Balcarres ms. about 1.5 moths ago, and I was hooked... I suppose and 
accept that my playing probably is not acceptable at all by the really 
hard core Scottish musicians, but anyhow to me this has been very 
interesting and happy journey to the Scottish mentality - which by the 
way doesn't seem to be so very far off from the Finnish type of 
melancholy...


Today I tried the Tarphicken, mr. Beck's way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7q4N6lVOAMfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/51302185

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute setting of the sad and even political Gilderoy ballad

[Arto Wikla]

Dear all,

delete immediately, if you are not interested in my tubings... ;)

So you who did not delete:

This evening I tried to play one solo lute version of the famous 
Gilderoy ballad. The text actually seems to be quite politic - 
commenting the very strict English law of the safe of the property, 
instead of the safe of the human life, which was brought to Scotland by 
the southern power. The song is anyhow, a love song. I added also the 
text of verses 1, 7 and 8 to my tubing. You can find all of the text in

http://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/broadside.cfm/id/15859

My modest version is in

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ2hXggEt88feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50845390

All the best,

Arto


On 03/10/12 22:15, Arto Wikla wrote:

On 01/10/12 21:55, Arto Wikla wrote:
Hi all,

After the Paunges of a desperate lover, Mr. McLaughland's way, by mr. 
Beck (ms. Balcarres 187)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PO3whJQX6gfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/50701736

Does this paunges mean pangs? So some kind of pains or sorrows?

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I happened to meet one melody in the Balcarres' ms., which I know I 
know from the times of my early student years - it was actually a 
recorded example in the appendix record of one VERY early book about 
computer music (!). The piece was called with a name that was somehow 
connected to a Scottish military march; I cannot remember the actual 
name... Anyhow that same melody is in the Balcarres ms., number 186: 
The canaries, the new way, in Mr. McLaughlan's fashion, by mr. 
Beck. The beginning of the piece is actually march-like, while only 
the end is in 3!


What makes me wonder, is that Matthew Spring in his wonderful edition 
doesn't give any hint of this piece being a song or some kind of 
Scottish march.


My todays y-tubing and vimeoing of this 186 is in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBm6T7Uq5ccfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50544077

All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Paunges(?) of a desperate lover... what is this paunges?

[Arto Wikla]

On 01/10/12 21:55, Arto Wikla wrote:
Hi all,

After the Paunges of a desperate lover, Mr. McLaughland's way, by mr. 
Beck (ms. Balcarres 187)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PO3whJQX6gfeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/50701736

Does this paunges mean pangs? So some kind of pains or sorrows?

Arto


Dear lutenists,

I happened to meet one melody in the Balcarres' ms., which I know I 
know from the times of my early student years - it was actually a 
recorded example in the appendix record of one VERY early book about 
computer music (!). The piece was called with a name that was somehow 
connected to a Scottish military march; I cannot remember the actual 
name... Anyhow that same melody is in the Balcarres ms., number 186: 
The canaries, the new way, in Mr. McLaughlan's fashion, by mr. Beck. 
The beginning of the piece is actually march-like, while only the end 
is in 3!


What makes me wonder, is that Matthew Spring in his wonderful edition 
doesn't give any hint of this piece being a song or some kind of 
Scottish march.


My todays y-tubing and vimeoing of this 186 is in:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBm6T7Uq5ccfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50544077

All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] There is something unique in the way the Scots adopted the lute

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

as my subject says, there really is something unique in the way the 
Scots adopted the lute. Already in the times of the vieil accord, the 
renaissance tuning, the Scots used the lute in playing their own songs 
and melodies - in modern terms playing the folk music. And that 
practise continued to the baroque times, perhaps even later. As far as I 
know, no other nation or ethnic group ever so strongly used the lute in 
playing their own traditional music. Well, this is just my experience, 
no real research here...


Anyhow, I hope you do not condemn my tiny efforts of trying to 
understand that special phenomenon, and especially my postings of the 
links to my (foreign to Scots) efforts to play examples of that music.


Now I started to try to get an idea of the pieces in ms. Balcarres that 
are in Jean More's way, by Mr. Beck.


The first one is
  Over the moore, to Katie, Jean More's way, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 
195)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGaE5AF4uv4feature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/50387193

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Pantaloon(=Bergamasca) ends my tiny D. Grieve project

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I end my tiny project of trying to understand David Grieve (of the ms. 
Balcarres) by Grieve's version of the most famous Bergamasca jam session 
chord progression of the renaissance and baroque. The man clearly seems 
to have his own style among the musicians/composers of the Balcarres ms.!


Not much seems to be known of David Grieve; in his wonderful edition of 
the ms., even Matthew Spring does not tell much about our David (see The 
Music of Scotland, Volume 2, The Universities of Glasgow and Aberdeen, 
2010).


Does anyone here happen to know anything more of this enigmatic 
musician, composer and lutenist? And some of the Grieve-pieces in the 
ms. are marked by David Grieve, some are David Grieve's way. Could 
the latter perhaps be settings written by the dominating writer of the 
ms., the also quite enigmatic Mr. Beck?


Links to my tiny efforts - 7 pieces - are below - one piece actually is 
anonymous, but the piece before Amarillis is by Grieve, on the other 
hand, the next one is by Master Lesslie...


Then something else, ..., perhaps Balcarres settings of the mysic by 
Mr. McLaughland? :-)


All the best

Arto

Pantaloon, by David Grieve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5ldLVTkP-Yfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/50153754

  Amarillis (by an anonymous composer)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyKh1GV5SIfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/50013553

  Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPamsat59Efeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49974431

  The touching of the strings, David Grieve's way
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0mY_wUwwAfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49927107

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

  Saraband, by David Grieve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49465762

  From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Just a plain Amarillis

[Arto Wikla]

Sorry for flooding, ..., but it just is so inspiring to try to 
understand a style that is new to you... This time I tried an Amarillis 
by an anonymous composer:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGyKh1GV5SIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/50013553

Arto

On 22/09/12 21:23, Arto Wikla wrote:


Dear lutenists, ..., you know where is the delete button ... :-)

Today still more Scottish lute:

Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPamsat59Efeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49974431

This is a simple song setting by D. Grieve. It is interesting, how the 
modal harmonies and melodies still creep in here and there to the 
otherwise quite continental texture.


Perhaps still some Grieve, and then maybe I dare to go to the very 
heavy stuff marked Mr. McLachland's way by Mr. Beck in Balcarres ms.?


All the best,

Arto

On 21/09/12 20:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, in case there is some interest ... ;-)

Also David Grieve wrote his Tastar de corde:

The touching of the strings, David Grieve's way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0mY_wUwwAfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49927107

Best,

Arro


On 19/09/12 21:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Just in case someone is interested...

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

Best,

Arto

On 14/09/12 20:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

if my flooding hurts, just delete ... ;-)

The very unknown David Grieve in the Balcarres ms. clearly was 
familiar also with the central European style.  Today I tried a 
Saraband:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/49465762

Best,

Arto

On 13/09/12 22:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)
From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque 
lute - very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music 
and some elements French baroque lute music. One interesting 
difficulty has been to make my fingers believe that they really 
have to play the pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to 
the normal major and minor scales that they just want to go 
that way, without obeying my orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie 
lady, master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core 
Celtic piece. Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists, ..., you know where is the delete button ... :-)

Today still more Scottish lute:

Amarillis, told her swanne, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPamsat59Efeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49974431

This is a simple song setting by D. Grieve. It is interesting, how the 
modal harmonies and melodies still creep in here and there to the 
otherwise quite continental texture.


Perhaps still some Grieve, and then maybe I dare to go to the very heavy 
stuff marked Mr. McLachland's way by Mr. Beck in Balcarres ms.?


All the best,

Arto

On 21/09/12 20:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, in case there is some interest ... ;-)

Also David Grieve wrote his Tastar de corde:

The touching of the strings, David Grieve's way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro0mY_wUwwAfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49927107

Best,

Arro


On 19/09/12 21:23, Arto Wikla wrote:

Just in case someone is interested...

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

Best,

Arto

On 14/09/12 20:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

if my flooding hurts, just delete ... ;-)

The very unknown David Grieve in the Balcarres ms. clearly was 
familiar also with the central European style.  Today I tried a 
Saraband:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/49465762

Best,

Arto

On 13/09/12 22:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)
From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque 
lute - very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music and 
some elements French baroque lute music. One interesting 
difficulty has been to make my fingers believe that they really 
have to play the pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to the 
normal major and minor scales that they just want to go that 
way, without obeying my orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie lady, 
master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core Celtic 
piece. Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] David Grieve of Balcarres knew ALSO the Scottish style ... ;)

[Arto Wikla]

Just in case someone is interested...

  The Lady Errols delight, the 2nd way, by David Grieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d-KkdCwOSgfeature=youtu.be
 http://vimeo.com/49778004

Best,

Arto

On 14/09/12 20:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

if my flooding hurts, just delete ... ;-)

The very unknown David Grieve in the Balcarres ms. clearly was 
familiar also with the central European style.  Today I tried a Saraband:


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Hi37JST_4feature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/49465762

Best,

Arto

On 13/09/12 22:55, Arto Wikla wrote:

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)
From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque lute 
- very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music and some 
elements French baroque lute music. One interesting difficulty has 
been to make my fingers believe that they really have to play the 
pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to the normal major and 
minor scales that they just want to go that way, without obeying my 
orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie lady, 
master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core Celtic 
piece. Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Fingers, pentatonic, Balcarres and Mr. Beck ...

[Arto Wikla]

Well, I tried one much more well behaving Balcarres piece:
;-)

From the fair Lavinion shoar, David Grieve's way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdIYivEF5E8feature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/49398999

Arto

On 08/09/12 21:50, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists of both Lists,

I have been trying to understand the Scottish music to baroque lute - 
very interesting combination of pentatonic Celtic music and some 
elements French baroque lute music. One interesting difficulty has 
been to make my fingers believe that they really have to play the 
pentatonic scales; they just are _so_ used to the normal major and 
minor scales that they just want to go that way, without obeying my 
orders ... ;-)


My latest Mr. Beck of ms. Balcarres was I serve a worthie lady, 
master Beck's way, to me up to now the most hard core Celtic piece. 
Below is the list of my tiny project:



I serve a worthie lady, master Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 54)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vqMp9y9C_Qfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/49075769

A new Scot's Measure, mr. Beck's way
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC_PbRtUeQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48958726

Over the Dyke, and kisse her ladie, mr. Beck's way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVnkBa1hdQcfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48826023

The black ewe, by mr. Beck (ms. Balcarres 76)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7cy1eEKXUMfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48698296

Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 73)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
http://vimeo.com/48655228

Joy to the Person of my love, mr. Beck's way (ms. Balcarres 59)
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/48612640

Best,

Arto

PS I guess I am mainly writing just to myself... ;-)



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] More Celtic baroque from Scotland

[Arto Wikla]

   Another Scottish piece, Rothymay's lilt, mr. Beck's way
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
  [2]http://vimeo.com/48655228
   This period/place is very interesting: little by little the tonality is
   creeping in to the modal, and even pentatonic music. Fruitful mixture!
   Best,

   Arto
   On 31/08/12 22:05, Arto Wikla wrote:

   Hi all
   I tried to play a piece of the ms. Balcarres, the Joy to the Person of
   my love, mr. Beck's way:
 [1][3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
 [2][4]http://vimeo.com/48612640
   This style and genre is in a way not too difficult, but in another way very d
ifficult!!
   All the best,
   Arto
   --


   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2e8-YP9bgAfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://vimeo.com/48655228
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h3B6kimdNIfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://vimeo.com/48612640


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: First touch to Dubut, The Wagtail

[Arto Wikla]

.. another Dubut, a Sarabande:;-)

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2oxieqoM6Ifeature=youtu.be
   http://vimeo.com/45257093

Seems to be interesting composer!

Arto

On 04/07/12 20:26, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear b-lutenists,

my first try to Pierre Dubut's (fils?) music is Gavotte(?) La 
Bergenorette, The Wagtail:


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km--kfnyXzYfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/45197590

Pierre seems to be an interesting and melodic composer. Little by 
little I start to understand, how different composers and styles there 
are even in the very hard core of the French baroque lute music!


Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Logy Courante and Double

[Arto Wikla]

Is the ms. Denby the same as the ms. Danby?  See Crawford's page
   http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01tc/web/ttc/Danby.html

Arto

On 03/06/12 23:02, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

The D-B Ms SA4060 Ms is turning out to be a very entertaining source of music. 
I found a courante by Logy that has a concordance in the Denby Ms. I have made 
my own amalgamation of the 2 versions and added the double that follows in 
Denby. Happy to share the pdf if anyone is interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMCtWk3xF7M

Danny




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] B-flat major is actually quite a cute key ...

[Arto Wikla]

.. a couple of tiny little Kremsmunsterian pieces (Gavotte and Menuet, 
perhaps?):


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsBYVNfQzfUfeature=youtu.be

Happy key,

Arto


On 31/05/12 23:19, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear b-lutenists,

remember, delete is easy, if this kind of mails hurt... ;-)

I just played still another Kremsmunster pop song. In a way it is 
kind of much more fun and enjoyable to play easy pieces that sound 
nice than those very difficult pieces that perhaps mainly show your 
braveness...? ;-))


So, this is perhaps an Allemande: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRpdYIiB_pAfeature=youtu.be


Best,

Arto


On 30/05/12 20:28, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a possible source of this famous Christmas carol 
in a baroque lute ms. The B-part of the piece is very near...

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSd3TmSgM-Mfeature=youtu.be

yes, yes, I now the Christmas is not near... ;-)

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] 11th course in Bb is fun!

[Arto Wikla]

Dear b-lutenists,

remember, delete is easy, if this kind of mails hurt... ;-)

I just played still another Kremsmunster pop song. In a way it is kind 
of much more fun and enjoyable to play easy pieces that sound nice 
than those very difficult pieces that perhaps mainly show your 
braveness...? ;-))


So, this is perhaps an Allemande: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRpdYIiB_pAfeature=youtu.be


Best,

Arto


On 30/05/12 20:28, Arto Wikla wrote:

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a possible source of this famous Christmas carol in 
a baroque lute ms. The B-part of the piece is very near...

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSd3TmSgM-Mfeature=youtu.be

yes, yes, I now the Christmas is not near... ;-)

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] We Wish You A Merry Christmas

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a possible source of this famous Christmas carol in a 
baroque lute ms. The B-part of the piece is very near...

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSd3TmSgM-Mfeature=youtu.be

yes, yes, I now the Christmas is not near... ;-)

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Austrian baroque pop...

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I perhaps should not shamelessly self promote(?), but this kind of 
mails are anyhow so easily deleted... ;-)


So, I am still advertising the lute music after Dowland and before 
Weiss. There is lots of that!!
Now I have a tiny project of getting to know the Austrian (=Imperial) 
baroque pop music to the lute.


Yesterday's example:
Aria(?):
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn7Pe_mwGXo
  http://vimeo.com/42639825

And a couple of more that I already have mentioned here:
Aria(?) a'la Schubert long before Schubert
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrnUpH9-yigfeature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/42502142
Aria(?) in g-minor
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsXj0ZbT98feature=youtu.be
  http://vimeo.com/42462352

Perhaps a couple more to come in near future... ;)

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Bill and the List,

I recommend Mimmo's Aquila's D's to the basses, for which there still 
are no NNG's/NGE's. Wound on NNG, I guess. But much, very much better 
than the old Pyramid type wound strings. And if I  have understood it 
right, Mimmo is developing a better solution: loaded NNG's/NGE's!


Best,

Arto

On 23/05/12 17:31, William Samson wrote:

Hi,

Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the worst of the
boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses?  Loaded gut is
'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say, Kuerschner or
Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful.

I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string
where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and unsightly.
Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution.

Thanks!

Bill

--


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings

[Arto Wikla]

   And Bill, I actually just replaced the old, very old - 1980's! -
   Pyramid basses of my 10-courser to Aquila's D's. Great improvement!
   Some examples of those D's (and also mainly NNG's):
   Entree de Luth - Branle de Village 1 - Branle de Village 3.
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?vovgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
   Home againe, Market is done
 [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
   Zamboni: Preludio - Sarabanda Largo - Gavotta Allegro
 [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
   Corrente (ms. Doni)
 [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
   Corrente francese (ms. Doni)
 [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
   Piccinini: Toccata V
 [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
   Michelangelo Galilei: Toccata
 [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
   Kapsberger: Toccata 3
   [8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
   Best,
   Arto
   On 23/05/12 18:38, William Samson wrote:

   Good question, David.

   They're very old Pyramids and although silvery in colour, it looks like
   silver plating on top of copper.  I'd have thought that sweat and dirt
   might have calmed them down after all these years, but  . . .  :(

   Bill
   From: [9]starb...@optonline.net [10]starb...@optonline.net
   To: William Samson [11]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 16:23
   Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
   Bill,
   Are you using silver or copper wound? I found that the copper wound are
   less zingy than the silver wound (at least on my lute).
   -David
   - Original Message -
   From: William Samson
   Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:32 am
   Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
   To: baroque-lute mailing-list
Hi,
   
Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the
worst of the
boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses? Loaded
gut is
'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say,
Kuerschner or
Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful.
   
I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string
where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and
unsightly. Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution.
   
Thanks!
   
Bill
   
--
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
[12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   

   --


   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%C3%B4vgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
   6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
   7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
   8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
   9. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
  10. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
  11. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Zingy strings

[Arto Wikla]

Something wrong with the first link!? This should work:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4vgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be

Arto

On 23/05/12 23:40, Arto Wikla wrote:

And Bill, I actually just replaced the old, very old - 1980's! -
Pyramid basses of my 10-courser to Aquila's D's. Great improvement!
Some examples of those D's (and also mainly NNG's):
Entree de Luth - Branle de Village 1 - Branle de Village 3.
  [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?vovgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
Home againe, Market is done
  [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
Zamboni: Preludio - Sarabanda Largo - Gavotta Allegro
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
Corrente (ms. Doni)
  [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
Corrente francese (ms. Doni)
  [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
Piccinini: Toccata V
  [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
Michelangelo Galilei: Toccata
  [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
Kapsberger: Toccata 3
[8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
Best,
Arto
On 23/05/12 18:38, William Samson wrote:

Good question, David.

They're very old Pyramids and although silvery in colour, it looks like
silver plating on top of copper.  I'd have thought that sweat and dirt
might have calmed them down after all these years, but  . . .  :(

Bill
From: [9]starb...@optonline.net [10]starb...@optonline.net
To: William Samson [11]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
Sent: Wednesday, 23 May 2012, 16:23
Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
Bill,
Are you using silver or copper wound? I found that the copper wound are
less zingy than the silver wound (at least on my lute).
-David
- Original Message -
From: William Samson
Date: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:32 am
Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Zingy strings
To: baroque-lute mailing-list
  Hi,

  Just wondering if anybody had found a good way to take the
  worst of the
  boom and everlasting sustain out of overwound basses? Loaded
  gut is
  'way beyond my budget, so anything that would make, say,
  Kuerschner or
  Pyramid basses a bit tamer would be helpful.

  I have heard about people who put a blob of Blu-tack on each string
  where it emerges from the bridge, but that sounds messy and
  unsightly. Hopefully there's a less cringe-making solution.

  Thanks!

  Bill

  --


  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--


--

References

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v%C3%B4vgNR9GipAfeature=youtu.be
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwMUGil7yRwfeature=youtu.be
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC4YX24Dypsfeature=youtu.be
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR773XlyCTcfeature=youtu.be
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qedRGde-kEEfeature=youtu.be
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjD0k7_v9Hgfeature=youtu.be
7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvpwODvOOUfeature=youtu.be
8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_rdlOmfE8feature=youtu.be
9. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
   10. mailto:starb...@optonline.net
   11. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk
   12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] What is this nice little piece?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a simple but also quite beautiful little piece to 
baroque lute. It is in one of the Kremsmunster mss., A-KR L83b, fol. 
25r, piece number 248.There is no name of the piece, neither of the 
composer, but somehow this piece sounds so familiar!


The piece is so song-like that I think it must be an instrumental 
arrangement of a song, perhaps taken from some popular opera around 1700 
in Vienna?


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsXj0ZbT98feature=youtu.be

So, if somebody happens to know this piece, please let me know!

All the best,

Arto

PS The d-minor tuning is really a clever idea! I could not have imagined 
that before getting into it... :-)




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: What is this nice little piece?

[Arto Wikla]

On 19/05/12 22:18, Arto Wikla wrote:

Now also in Vimeo:  http://vimeo.com/42462352


Dear lutenists,

I happened to find a simple but also quite beautiful little piece to 
baroque lute. It is in one of the Kremsmunster mss., A-KR L83b, fol. 
25r, piece number 248.There is no name of the piece, neither of the 
composer, but somehow this piece sounds so familiar!


The piece is so song-like that I think it must be an instrumental 
arrangement of a song, perhaps taken from some popular opera around 
1700 in Vienna?


   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PsXj0ZbT98feature=youtu.be

So, if somebody happens to know this piece, please let me know!

All the best,

Arto

PS The d-minor tuning is really a clever idea! I could not have 
imagined that before getting into it... :-)




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Who wrote the ms. D-Bsa4060? And when?

[Arto Wikla]

Thanks Roman,

the 1945 history is now somehow cleared, and also Wikipedia tells much 
of the Singakademie.


But who copied - penned - the ms. D-Bsa4060? The style of writing the 
tabulature and also the line of the pen is something that I have not 
found in the genuine 17th century mss. As I wrote in my original message:
And how can this ms. be so clear? It looks like written/copied later 
than 17th century? The pen and the writing style looks more like 19th or 
even 20th century style. Could it have be written by some musicologist, 
who just copied many original 17th century mss.?


Any ideas?

Best,

Arto

On 29/04/12 14:48, Roman Turovsky wrote:

Arto,
Singacademie was in Berlin, and it was instrumental in preservation of 
JSB's works

and reputation, when it was led by C.F.Zelter and Mendelssohn.
Its archive was taken to Kiev as war booty, and stored at the 
conservatory. The archive survived
intact, unlike the collection of Lubeck Kunsthalle which was stolen 
piecemeal by the professors

of Kiev Art Academy where it was stored.
RT



- Original Message - From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: Lute net l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 5:36 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: 4060


New try. I sent this already yesterday, but it has not appeared. 
Sorry if this becomes a double:
- 


Very interesting and huge ms.! Thanks all involved!

Eagerly waiting also the intro by François-Pierre Goy in the Tree 
edition to come.


Before that proper analysis, it would be very interesting to hear at 
least something of the history of that ms. -- the 17th century 
history and also the 20th century history: the role of Kiev -- I can 
guess the point of history when the ms. was taken there... And what 
and where was that Singakademie?  And how can this ms. be so clear? 
It looks like written/copied later than 17th century? The pen and the 
writing style looks more like 19th or even 20th century style. Could 
it have be written by some musicologist, who just copied many 
original 17th century mss.?


Best,

Arto

On 25/04/12 22:34, Andreas Schlegel wrote:

Dear lute netters,

That's the famous manuscript of the Singakademie who came back from 
Kiew in the year 2000. I bought a microfiche and in February I was 
in Berlin, made the physical description and took photos of the 
watermarks etc. - and they didn't told me that they will publish the 
PDF...


But anyway: That's a great gift! A big thank you to the library and 
to Rainer who shared the link!


François-Pierre Goy and Tim Crawford are working on this very 
important source. François-Pierre Goy wrote an article and a whole 
inventory - but I don't know where it will be published. I will ask 
him when he's back from his holiday.


Enjoy the source!

Andreas

Am 25.04.2012 um 21:07 schrieb Rainer:


Dear lute netters,

I have no idea if this is new:

MS 4060 (750 pages) is on-line.

See

http://resolver.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/SBB78A3

Rainer adS




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Mouton's campanella technique

[Arto Wikla]

   Dear baroque lutenists and guitarists,
   I played a tiny Prelude by Mouton from his printed book Pieces de Luth,
   page 1.  Here Mouton uses his unique(?) technique of playing first only
   the low octave of a bass course and only after some higher strings the
   upper octave of the same bass course. So it is actually the
   campanella technique better known in baroque guitar music.
   You can find my version in
 [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64w2NH6hCgfeature=youtu.be
   It is quite short, 46 seconds. The campanella passage starts in about
   0:21, where the bass goes C-B-A-G-F (a'A5Hz).
   Does anyone know, whether any other baroque lutenist used this
   technique?
   All the best,
   Arto
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64w2NH6hCgfeature=youtu.be


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: The rhythm shape of French cadences?

[Arto Wikla]

Thank you Mathias and Stewart!

Interesting discussion!

There is an intersting comment by Gallot to the way Stewart wrote:.

A baroque trill consists of three elements:

1) An appoggiatura, i.e. play the note above the written note first
(b2).

2) A trill with as many turns as you can sensibly fit in (a2 b2 a2 b2
a2).

3) A termination (optional) which rounds off the trill (d3 a2).

 |\   |\  |\  |\   |\|
 ||   |\  |\   |\|
 ||   |\  ||\|
 ||   |\  |.   |\|
___
___a__|__b___a_b_a_b_a___a__|__
___d__|___d_d___|__
__|__c__|__
__|_|__
__|_|__



More or less this type of cadence seems to be the norm today. But there 
is some info contradicting that:


George Torres translated the prefaces of several French lute books in 
JLSA XXXVI (2003) (published in 2008!) in his important article. In the 
Pieces de luth, Paris 1684, Gallot writes:


6. Join terminations (cadences) to the trills (tremblements) as much as 
is possible to do, and evenly.


In his footnote Torres explains the 6th point of Gallot:

Here Gallot is telling us to run the trills and their termination 
smoothly together, so that the notes flow with the same note values and 
emphasis into a smooth phrase. The habit he is warning against is 
letting the notes of the trill fade away, and then suddenly get loud for 
the two note termination.


Do we have more studies or knowledge of this question? Anything similar 
in the harpsichord studies?


All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Unmeasured preludes are like puzzles or enigmas.

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque musicians,

just a thought, no tubings! ;-)

Those unmeasured preludes of French baroque are interesting, demanding, 
crazy and wonderful. You have to put your fingers so many times to the 
strings to get any idea, what really is there. It is somehow like trying 
to solve a puzzle or break the code of the enigma. Perhaps also like 
solving a crossword or sudoku (I like crosswords and never touch sudoku's).


I have not always managed to solve the problem and have still kind of 
performed the piece... Kind of aleatoric music then...


Anyhow, now I try to get into the music of Mouton. To me his music seems 
to be even more difficult than many other French composers, also 
technically, not only as music.


So, no message here, no question, just flow of thinking... :)

Best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Le Perier or Le Charmant Retour by Mouton?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear baroque lutenists,

in the ms. Barbe there is an interesting piece Le Perier de Mouton (p. 
224-225). Does anyone have some information of that piece? Do you think 
it is a (strange) Chaconne? What could be the reference Le Perier? 
Some person or incident?


According to Peter's (wonderful) pages there is a concordance in ms. 
CZ-Pu ms. II.Kk.80, p. 90. There the piece is called Sarabande en 
Rondeau de Mouton, but in Peter's Barbe page there is also a name Le 
Charmant Retour... So, still more mysteries... Where does that name 
come from?


And btw, does any kind soul happen to have the ms. CZ-Pu ms. II.Kk.80 
(Praha, Národní knihovna CSR - Universitní knihovna) ... ;-)  It would 
be very interesting to compare the versions...


All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD

[Arto Wikla]

Dear Anthony, Mathias and the List

Some personal aesthetic views of French style and Weiss et co:

I am not talking of some music being better or worse than some other 
music. Actually my opinion is also generally that no style of music is 
better or worse than any other style. Of course everyone has her/his 
preferences and no-no's, but that is subjective selection, not the truth.


I like very much the French 17th century lute music just because it is 
uneven and unpredictable; the lengths of phrases vary, there are 
unexpected harmonies, etc. Often it is like speaking, not so much like 
singing a versed poem. And just that attracts me - lots of information 
often in a small space.


To me the style of Weiss and other late baroque guys is quite often very 
square. Everything in pieces of this style usually behaves so well and 
educated. And it can be so predictable! And so often everything is 
repeated and repeated ad infinitum... On the other hand, it can be very 
song-like: beautiful melodies correctly harmonized. Groups of four 
bars elegantly set to the company of other four bars, A-section ending 
to the dominant key, B-section bringing it back to the tonic... Well, 
can sometimes be boring... (Of course there is also very enjoyable music 
by the late baroque composers, even to me! ;-)


Just today I (again) enjoyed the uneven and unpredictable French baroque 
in the company of Francois Dufault:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eIUhqvJ_zk

And yes, I know my graces should be more graceful, but anyhow I am just 
a Finn, not a Frenchman... ;-))


All the best,

Arto


On 17/03/12 15:32, Anthony Hind wrote:

Dear Mathias
Thanks for your explanations, yes I do understand your
feelings. I have a number of friends here in Paris, who prefer to play
Weiss (or similar) rather than French music, more or less for the
reasons you state.
Only the bare-bones seem to be encoded in the tablature, and a great
depth of understanding is needed to interpret the simplest of pieces.
Economy of composition and melodic ambiguity, seems almost
contradictory; French classic literature shows similar economy, but
seeks out le mot juste (whereas according to a recent BBC programme,
English authors delight in ambiguity).
I do delight in melodic ambiguity, but am far from mastering the art of
its interpretation or grasping the grammar of its rhetoric.
My first teacher, Terrence Waterhouse, before I temporarily retired
from lute playing, was a student of Michael Schaeffer, and I heard much
about his theoretical in-put, through him. At that time I was only
learning renaissance lute, and there was unfortunately a long break
before I returned to lute playing and the baroque lute.
I am in contact with an expert in the interpretation of the French
lute, and always amazed at how he makes a piece sing, or talk; in
comparison my playing is completely flat, but I strive on. I love his
playing of Weiss, but find it almost melodically indulgent (if you know
what I mean), I must be rather a melodic puritan, I fear.
Best wishes
Anthony
  __

De : Mathias Roeselmathias.roe...@t-online.de
A : baroque-lute mailing-listbaroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Envoye le : Samedi 17 mars 2012 10h56
Objet : [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
Dear Anthony,
I do not blame you, and I hope you didn't offense in what I wrote. As
for
the Pieces de luth LP, I do regret that it was my first encounter
with
French baroque lute music. When I first listened, I was like, wow, they
had
jazz in the 17th century. It's so sophisticated, I couldn't tell triple
time
from even time by listening, I was amazed by the glittering sound,
amazed by
unexpected progress of harmonies, amazed by unidentifiable rhythmical
structures.
From then on, my idea of that music was, I kinda like it, but this is
so
artificial, I will never understand how it works. This music was
completely
veiled before my ears because of many rubatos, arpeggios instead of
broken
lines, and so on. Had I first listened to, say, Michael Schaeffer,
things
would have been different for me (but if and would are the fool's last
words). That first contact coined my idea of what French baroque lute
music
was.
And that's why I kept my hands off from it for a long time. Like many
others, I took my way through Giesbert's method and later through
Toyohiko
Satoh's. To me, the greatest composers who wrote for the baroque lute,
were
Bach and Weiss, and none other compared to them. I knew there was some
French music, but it was much too tricky and way not rewarding enough
as to
be worth a try. Sorry for oversimplification, but it comes close.
 He does mention his stringing in all the booklets 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] Losy is interesting...

[Arto Wikla]

Losy seems to be different. For ex. he uses here and there jumps (leaps) 
of third and continues to the same direction, not filling the gap after 
the jump.


Just made an Allemande that has this:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrO0YxK-vOQ
   http://vimeo.com/37255747

Similiar features in also in a Capriccio:
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEsM3RsE-Ys
   http://vimeo.com/37019606

I'll study more of his music...

Arto

PS The bass line in the beginning of this Allemande reminds me John 
Mayall's bass line in his piece It hurts me too! Happened to play that 
in my school year's blues band... ;-)




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Duets?

[Arto Wikla]

Dear all,

this list is wonderful! (Thanks Wayne!)

And thanks to Mathias, Danny and Chris:

Mathias Rösel wrote:

why not consider the French edition:
http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?Partitions/Le_Secret_des_Muses
Volume 29 : 31 duos français du XVIIe siècle, pour luths baroques onze
choeurs. Par François-Pierre Goy. Paris 2005. 2 recueils de 35p. Prix :
15 € / 20 € + (FR / 3 €) (EU / 4 €)


I just ordered! Looks great!

Daniel Shoskes wrote:
 I've uploaded some to my mac ftp site, mostly Doug Towne's doing.
 Go to public.me.com/dshoskes and download the folders 11 course 
duets,  Losy duet and French lute duets. I'll leave them up for a few days.


Found them and downloaded! Very nice!

Christopher Wilke wrote:
 Gumprecht has a few.  They're in the CNRS edition.

I must check those, too.

So again: Big thanks! You were fast! :-)

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] [Re: Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson]

[Arto Wikla]

Baroque lutenists,

I forward my baroque mail, which I sent to the Lute-list, also here, 
because I suppose here are members, who do not get the normal list. 
Delete if you already got this!


[Wayne, if you happen to read this: How does it work, if I put both 
lists to the address fields? Does your system take care that everyone 
gets only one message? Often the messages belong to two or more Lists...]


Best,

Arto

 Original Message 
Subject: [LUTE] Charles Mouton and Robert Johnson
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 10:35:38 +0200
From: Arto Wikla wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
To: lute-cs.dartmouth.edu l...@cs.dartmouth.edu

Hi Lutenists,

Dan W. pointed me a couple of interesting pictures of players:
Charles Mouton in
  http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/history3.htm
and Robert Johnson in

http://copiah.msgenweb.org/Resources/Reference/Profiles/Johnson__Robert/robert_johnson1.gif

[Both are btw also my musician/composer heroes!]

There are striking similiarities between these two pictures:

* The right hand position.
* The left hand position.
* The right arm position.
* The left arm position.
* The legs are crossed in the same way.
* The instrument is placed same way on the right leg.
* Both pose for their official court portraits, wearing their best.
* The body language generally is the same.
* ...

And btw, I see also some other similiarities between barock and blues:

* Text is important and often rules the music.
* Inegal is the secret of swing in both genres, etc. And there many
_different_ inegals in both styles, too!


All the best,

Arto



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Gehema lute book

[Arto Wikla]

Beautiful, Mathias!

You play by your new 12 course lute?

Also I happened to play to the tube those first 3 pieces by my old 
10-courser just a month ago:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDnThfm-uCQ

All the best,

Arto

Mathias Rösel wrote:

Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com schrieb:

Mathias Rösel wrote:

Dear everybody,

playing through the Gehema lute book, I've found what surprisingly
beautiful music it contains. I've made some recordings (way not as
impeccable as the music itself), available here:
https://download.yousendit.com/ZW9DWUhxV3IzeUtGa1E9PQ 


Very nice playing, Mathias. I just listened to them all. I used to have 
a Baroque lute but I've never heard of the Gehema lute book.


Berlin 40264. There used to be a facsimile edition by the
Zentralantiquariat der DDR.


Mid 17th century?


1650-60, IOW some 15 years after the music was composed, according to
François-Pierre Goy's thesis. According to the editor of the facsimile,
Otremba, Virginia Gehema with her husband, Abraham, lived on their manor
near Lesniów Maly and Lesniów Wielki, Poland (then West Prussia). Her
father-in-law was a friend of the German poet Martin Opitz who lived in
Danzig (Gdansk) and later moved to Thorn (Torun).


Lots of French twiddly things


The courante on fol. 2v is by Merville, the sarabande on fol. 5 is by
Mesangeau.


but some German titles - bit like Reussner?


That is my impression as well. Silesia is not too far away, and
obviously people would whistle similar tunes.




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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Concerto for Torban and Orchestra

[Arto Wikla]

Roman Turovsky wrote:

Part 2:
Andante con Variazioni for Torban and Orchestra.
http://torban.org/audio/torban-dumka.mp3


Beautiful piece, thanks. But a little bit more info wouldn't be bad. If 
I had to analyze the piece wihout any info I would say it is ethnic 
music, a modern arragement of a folk piece, perhaps made for a movie 
about 19th century peasant love story - very beautiful and well played, 
but perhaps not the deepest music, very easy to listen. The orchestra 
sounded a little like a bass balalaika orchestra with some percussion 
instrument(s)?


Arto



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