Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
Dorothy, Sorry - my book is aimed at consumers, not winemakers, offering reasons why they should buy organic and biodynamic wine. It does deal with tasting and the principles of growing and winemaking, but all from a consumer's point of view. I'm sure there are people on this list who can answer your question about planting vines, though. Alternatively, have you tried searching the BDNow archives? Hilary - Original Message - From: "Dorothy O'Brien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 4:54 AM Subject: Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings) > > Hilary-- Does your book deal with wine tasting, wine > making or wine growing? Perhaps all of the above? > > I've been disappointed in the lack of discussion on > the organic viticulture internet group and would be > very interested in any discussions on bd (or organic > for that matter) methods in vineyards. > > For example, I appreciated the post relating helpful > sources such as your book, but I didn't see any > substantive response to the original question, which > had to do with bd methods for rooting cuttings and > establishing new plants. > > Dorothy > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com >
Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
Hilary-- Does your book deal with wine tasting, wine making or wine growing? Perhaps all of the above? I've been disappointed in the lack of discussion on the organic viticulture internet group and would be very interested in any discussions on bd (or organic for that matter) methods in vineyards. For example, I appreciated the post relating helpful sources such as your book, but I didn't see any substantive response to the original question, which had to do with bd methods for rooting cuttings and establishing new plants. Dorothy __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com
Re: Fwd: Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
I suggest that you try the questions and answers given on 14th June 1924. Peter. - Original Message - From: "Geoff Heinricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings) > > >>Dear Allan, > >> > >>Please forward to BDNOW. Thank you. > >> > >>Please inform Messers Robertson, Heinricks and Wright that Steiner > >>mentions a cure for Phylloxera a couple of times in his ag. lectures. > >> > >>"
Re: Fwd: Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
>>Dear Allan, >> >>Please forward to BDNOW. Thank you. >> >>Please inform Messers Robertson, Heinricks and Wright that Steiner >>mentions a cure for Phylloxera a couple of times in his ag. lectures. >> >>"The Feared" Greg Willis >> >>P.S. "The only thing we have to fear, is someone calling what we do >>"biodynamic". As always, a Greg Willis missive that is the equivalent of walking across hot coals - you'd better be prepared for it, and in the right state of mind! Allan...thank Greg for jumping in. I don't have Steiner's lectures yet...could someone who has - and who is readily conversant with them - put up the references Greg makes to phylloxera in Steiner's work? I realize that out of the whole they would lose a lot, but I at least would be grateful to seem them. Thanks, Geoff Heinricks Prince Edward Co., Ontario
Fwd: Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
>From Greg Willis - >Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 03:30:10 -0800 >From: Greg Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >X-Accept-Language: en >To: Allan Balliett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: Hugh Lovel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Lorraine Cahill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings) > >Dear Allan, > >Please forward to BDNOW. Thank you. > >Please inform Messers Robertson, Heinricks and Wright that Steiner >mentions a cure for Phylloxera a couple of times in his ag. lectures. >In 1995, I put together a Steiner/Albrecht/Burbank/Willis based protocol >which I then tried on two Phylloxerated vineyards in 1996 and 1997. We >saved on average over 80% of the vines in each vineyard, a fact that can >be attested by Messers Michael Topolos and Ralph Riva ( an infrequent >contributor to Acres U.S.A.). That was for the first year only. >Although I was not able to return personally to Ralph Riva's vineyard, >which was sold for housing, I was able to return to Mr. Topolos' >vineyard for 4 more years of treatment. I am happy to say that there is >no more Phylloxera in the treated part of this vineyard. > >Since that time, I have developed even more powerful remedies which >speed up recovery considerably. This year, I am using my newer methods >on several vineyards that have a multitude of disease and insect >problems including bacterial and viral infections. What once took 3 or >4 years to correct, I now see we can accomplish in only one year with >respect to disease and insects. Improving the tilth, friability and >humus content of the soil is another matter which takes some time to do >but with copious amounts of compost, of the right kind, and with cover >crops, of the right kind, we now have the capability of accomplishing >tremendous soil improvements in much shorter times as well. Believe me, >I'm only touching this topic. At Agri-Synthesis®, we can now do things >with plants and land, and people too, that no one dreamed was possible. > >I have developed a homeopathic spray of seven Steiner compost remedies >that can be applied to the OUTSIDE of a compost pile at a 90% reduction >in labor time. > >Everyone wants to know how we do these miracles. Well, I'm sorry, I >can't tell you how. It's proprietary. This is information that we've >spent hundreds of thousands of dollars gathering and 9 years developing >in the field. I will say this, though. Steiner was a genius, he was >right and he was prescient. If you want to make his genius work for >you, you must use ALL of his remedies. In most cases, they have to be >applied once each season - summer, fall, winter and spring. Failure to >do so guarantees failure at some level. And you must use horn clay or >you will never achieve what is possible. > >Look. Let's be clear about one thing. Steiner's "potions" as one >viticultural genius called them, are not "preparations". They "prepare" >nothing. Anyone who thinks so simply doesn't understand Steiner or his >intentions. They're "remedies". They fix things. > >Some of you over the age of 50 may recall that in the old days of >pharmacy, prescriptions were called "recipes" or "preparations" made by >the pharmacist. The term "preparations" was applied to Steiner's >remedies in the days when that was a common description of what a >pharmacist prepared. You know, I've ranted for years at the stupidity >and ignorance prevalent in biodynamics and my mind hasn't changed one >bit. I would like to see those who profess that they are "biodynamics >practitioners" to at least drag themselves into the 21st century and >ditch the word "preparations" or "preps" for nomenclature that is more >modern, more definitive and more accurate. "Remedies" is certainly >easier to use and more understandable by the illiterati who think that >Steiner was a bozo dealing in witchcraft. Of course, the term >"illiterati" applies to the self-appointed "leaders" of biodynamics too >inasmuch as they also refuse to use the proper terminology. And I mean >PROPER terminology. You want to live in the 19th century. Be my >guest. I don't and I certainly see no purpose in wallowing in the past. > >Anyway, I have no trouble recommending planting Vitis vinifera vines on >their own rootstocks if they use our system of viticultural design and >management, which is far superior to others and which is, I have been >informed by a leading self-proclaimed Anthroposophic genius, "Steiner >inspired" but not "biodynamic®&qu
Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
Geoff wrote: (Also, while I remember, I should point out there is Hilary Wright's book on organic wines - I can't find my copy right at the moment to cite details of publisher etc.) Geoff, thanks so much for mentioning the book! Naturally I have a copy to hand... The Great Organic Wine Guide was published by Piatkus in 2000 and is available through www.amazon.co.uk or www.piatkus.co.uk Regards Hilary
Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
Thank you Hilary for posting Phylloxera. Some one shot me down when I suggested it from afar. Gil Hilary Wright wrote: > The phylloxera louse (dactylasphaera vitifoliae) arrived in France from > America in 1863, where it destroyed 6.2 million acres of vines and spread > rapidly throughout Europe, threatening the very existence of the wine > industry. Snip
Re: Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
Ah, phylloxera...I could bore you all for days...and I guess I'll try... I'm not a practicing Steiner winegrower, but I have an open mind. I've continued to research, and observe in the field, and use what I see working as I go. I guess I'm sort of borrowing from here and there like a magpie - I keep Thun & and the Stella Natura in the background, checking against my own recrods of grafting takes and plantings...I got lots from Wolf Storl's book, Thompkin & Bird's two books, Joly, Thun, excerpts of Kolisko's work kindly posted (and mailed to me) by members of this list during my first year on it (I was off for the past 12 or 13 months)...and, recently, as sort of a needed confirmation, something I'd recommend to all on the list - Patrick Matthews, Real Wine (Mitchel Beazely, 2000). I've also enjoyed an received a lot of intelligent direction from the postings of Hugh Lovell (and am presently enjoying his book on many levels), and from the feared Greg Willis...and I've been lucky and had maybe a dozen French Bio-Dynamic wines, ciders and Perrys over the past year. (Also, while I remember, I should point out there is Hilary Wright's book on organic wines - I can't find my copy right at the moment to cite details of publisher etc.) I'll try more of the Steiner remedies I sense can do good over this year from my perspective as a farmer, and over the coming years, trying to reach an agriculture I feel comfortable and at peace with. Personally, with, as I say, great borrowings from some of the inspiring minds and souls working in BD, I find I am more at the core working with the old Anglo-saxon tradition that emerged between the two world wars - Albert Howard, Lionel Piction George MacCarrison, Eve Balfour, Joseph Concannouer and J.C. Boseand new contributors, like Dr. Elaine Ingham. Anyway, the point was phylloxera... I have been growing own-rooted vinifera sicne 1995, with some hand-grafted vines on local, lime-tolerant riparia and some more exotic French rootstocks (exotic, at least for North America). Most of my Pinot Noir is own-rooted. Primarily this was to speed getting my own mothervines and hope for bud-sports (I have one - a tiny-berried white pinot) and my own environmentally adapted clones. It also was to see what the vine could tolerate, in a non-chemically treated vineyard...and in a Canadian climate. Early Canadian studies on phylloxera in the 1960s showed a 90 to 99% mortality in overwintering phylloxera in Canada (this is one of the native homes of the louse). Unfortunately, the last winter - and so far this winter - low temperatures have been almost 12 C warmer than usual, with little or no ground frost. Last year, I guess predictably, especially given the warm winter, in July, the dreaded effects of the louse showed up in my pinot vines now 5 to 7 years old. Combined with the very dry summer, the pressure from the phylloxera caused about 6 leaves on each cane to gradually defolliate and drop early. It certainly saved leaf-plucking to expose the fruit, but was disconcerting. The vines continued to grow, keeping good, properly declining green growth tips, and the leaves that did gradually yellow and abscise were leaves past their peak photosynthetic production and were becoming consumers rather than producers Obviously the vine had a coping strategy. But it did give me pause. I am not sure whether any more own-rooted vines will go in on my vineyard...though I am considering a small plot planted in the old Burgundian and Champagne methods, which still keep a few patches of own rooted vines going in France. Whether it is the old method, or the soils on these vineyards that seem to work is not known. Science can't tell. Now the French BD vineyard guru Joly in his book Wines from Sky and Earth said he was going to replant some of his vineyard with own-rooted vines and new seedlings to see whether they would thrive in his BD vineyard. I haven't seen anything on if or how this experiment is doing. I'd be curious if anyone else knew anything. For those interested in phylloxera and the rush of 'science' and committees to, er, solve the problem, George Ordish's book The Great Blight is probably the best book written to date in english. Copies may sometimes be found on abebooks or another good internet site. There is one great mystery that has caused lots of debate, which is the appearance of what looks an awful lot like phylloxera turning up in 14th C Burgundy. From monastic records Camillie Rodie (Le Clos Vougeot, 1949) wrote that, "Dom Menrique realtes in the annals of Citeaux that he read in the convent library that the disease consisted of legions of tiny insects which attached themselves to the roots like clusters of lice. The leaves first turned yellow, the vinestock dried out and, finally, the vine died. The monks had to leave the domaine fallow for some time...It took more than a century to replant the vineyards of Burgundy." Dr. Ingham has written on some California data that sho
Phylloxera and biodynamic wines (was: Grape Cuttings)
The phylloxera louse (dactylasphaera vitifoliae) arrived in France from America in 1863, where it destroyed 6.2 million acres of vines and spread rapidly throughout Europe, threatening the very existence of the wine industry. Phylloxera is native to the east coast of the US, and American vine species have acquired resistance though developing cork layers beneath the wound made by phylloxera feeding on the root. This stops the invasion of other microbes which eventually rot the root and kill non-resistant vines. Phylloxera does not survive well in sand, so vines planted in sandy soils are immune from attack. For the rest, grafting onto resistant American rootstocks such as vitis ruparia and v.rupestris ensures survival. Problems are arising in California today through the widespread use of rootstock AXR1, which offers insufficient resistance. Napa and Sonoma are undergoing extensive replanting on more resistant rootstocks. (source: Oxford Companion to Wine, ed. Jancis Robinson, 2nd edition 1999) 18 months ago I visited a prominent Napa producer who was just beginning to adopt BD techniques, who claimed considerable success in overcoming the effects of phylloxera in a ravaged vineyard through the use of BD. Incidentally, I recall a little while ago (possibly during my pre-Christmas panic, when I made no time to reply) a posting from someone, possibly Greg Willis, bemoaning the perceived bad reputation of biodynamic wine because of the poor quality example of a leading BD grower. My opinion is that this refers exclusively to the American market/perception. In Europe the picture is very different. There, as I discovered during research in 1999, more and more of the top young producers are converting to biodynamic practices on quality grounds. It seems to me that there is a very clear message emerging from high quality French winemakers that biodynamics assists them in producing better and better wines. And that's a very good thing! Regards Hilary From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Re: Grape Cuttings > > In a message dated 2/3/02 4:34:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << Vinifera grapes-grafted > > Issue is root susceptability to phyloxera & nematodes. Location also a > variable. >> > > This is a paranoid chemical view..these [plants] are treated like crap, > get sick, then treated like junkies... they are susceptible to everything. > sstorch >
