Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/29/06, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/30/06, Jamil Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So we are sticking with BN shortcuts then... ..but before that Runa's concern must be taken care off! She has brought out several points in this regards. #1 BN shortcuts are not working smoothly everywhere. Personally, I have found that it can become erratic in some cases. Ex. using CTRL+SHIFT for switching. Please feel free to add other potentially problematic situation. So that we can compile a sort of DO NOT list. Runa, can you please give your response here. I'm slightly confused about this. There are two types of shortcuts, one in menu items etc (indicated by _ or in the translated strings), and one like CTRL-Q to quit an application. Which ones are we talking about? The first type are activated by pressing ALT. Where does the CTRL key come in? If we are talking about the second, I didn't even know that they could be translated. Can they? How? As far as KDE is concerned, it's not a good idea to use CTRL-SHIFT as a shortcut. Quoting from http://www.bengalinux.org/documents/bengali-keyboard-mini-howto.php, quote...you can use an option like grp:shift_toggle which will toggle by pressing both shift buttons. In which case your command becomes: setxkbmap -symbols us(pc101)+ben -option grp:shift_toggle This would in fact be preferable if you use KDE, since many standard KDE keyboard shortcuts involve the Ctrl+Shift combination./quote An easier alternative in KDE is to use the KDE keyboard switcher (by default uses CTRL-ALT-K to switch layouts) #2 Duplication of BN shorcuts This is a serious problem. Checking manually for duplication is not an easy task! However, I think its not difficult to write a script to check them automatically. In fact, I already have some codes (as a part of future version of po_anubadok) that aims to do that. First, it splist po files depending on their location (msggrep --location=SOURCEFILE) then it checks for repeatation of shortcuts. I don't think this will work. First of all, it's fine to have the same shortcut in different submenus. Also, consider the two strings Enable Proxy and Disable Proxy. They will probably be close together in the sources and in the same submenu as well, but will never be displayed together. So, it's fine if they have the same shortcut. For KDE, there's a tool for this (although I have never actually used it) called Dr Klash. See http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/520 Deepayan
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/30/06, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/30/06, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quoting from http://www.bengalinux.org/documents/bengali-keyboard-mini-howto.php, But isn't the same page advocating the use of CTRL+SHIFT for Bengali keyboard switching?? :-( I think it would be nice to update the page. Well, it's one of those things. Someone (I forget who) wrote the first draft. I complained about the KDE problem, but no one responded. I didn't think it would be right to change it completely without permission, so I added the alternative with a comment about KDE. It is probably due for an update anyway with xorg 7.0. I had problems following those instructions, so I'm using KDE's switcher nowadays. #2 Duplication of BN shorcuts This is a serious problem. Checking manually for duplication is not an easy task! However, I think its not difficult to write a script to check them automatically. I don't think this will work. First of all, it's fine to have the same shortcut in different submenus. Also, consider the two strings Enable Proxy and Disable Proxy. They will probably be close together in the sources and in the same submenu as well, but will never be displayed together. So, it's fine if they have the same shortcut. Maybe I didn't get you properly. You are saying, having same bn shortcuts MAY still work which is correct. But problem is really with situations where it DOES NOT work. Don't you agree that if one ensures all shortcuts are different in a submenu (location) then that's is SUFFICIENT condition such that all shortcuts are functional? Yes, your solution is sufficient (so I shouldn't have said it wouldn't work) but suboptimal (and possibly impractical). It may force unnatural choices unnecessarily. There may easily be more shortcuts in an application than available characters. Also, this may not work for modular applications, e.g. KDE's control center, where the source code for each module is in a different file, but the shortcuts should not conflict the main menu entries. Deepayan
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 10:28:44AM +0600, Khandakar Mujahidul Islam wrote: You can use the following command. You can change your layout using Left Win Key which has no work in Linux. #setxkbmap -compat group_led -symbols us(pc104)+ben(probhat)+group(lwin_toggle) The problem with the left win key is, it calls the start-up menu in KDE ;-( I have never tried with the right win key though. If anyone is still interested, then please try this - $ setxkbmap -compat complete+leds -symbols us(pc104)+ben(probhat)+group(lwin_toggle) -compat group_led disables some keys ;-( pgpNPf31zoz5W.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/26/06, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have different policies for different desktops. I agree. I think, it makes sense. If I am not wrong then shortcuts are used by people whose geekiness is considerably high :-) Also, such users are generally hooked to a particular desktop of their choice and certainly dont switch between desktops every morning. So it is OK and desirable (if needed) to have different policies for KDE and GNOME shortcuts. But we are not sticking only with KDE and GNOME. What will be for Fedora Core, Mandriva, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian, OOo, Mozilla, Gaim etc? :-) If we localize something personally we should stick with the same standard too - IMO. Best, `Jamil --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/28/06, Jamil Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But we are not sticking only with KDE and GNOME. What will be for Fedora Core, Mandriva, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian, OOo, Mozilla, Gaim etc? :-) I feel and believe that we should follow the same standard wherever possible. However, in this case problems seem to be due to the technical reasons. As pointed out by Runa that in GNOME bn shortcuts are non-functional. On the other hand Progga is quite happy with bn shortcuts in KDE. So if it is GNOME specific problem (surely, it can be there somewhere else as well) then I would like to suggest that we should try to figure what exactly goes wrong with Bengali shortcuts there? Is it fixable? BTW, I am no GNOME expert. So my opinion can be pretty naive here. Personally, I think that use of EN shortcuts is at best a short term solution to the problem and certainly it is NOT going to be a long term solution. See the discussion in the mail from Omi. http://www.mail-archive.com/bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net/msg01069.html It seems Bengali keyboards are already in (keeping aside the layout issue). So the original argument by Taneem following Indranil's proposal for the use of BN shortcuts is even more relevant today. Cheers Golam -- http://www.imsc.res.in/~golam/ --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/28/06, Jamil Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Progga is also using BN shortcuts in GNOME. IIRC he is using GNOME on FreeBSD. So if it is GNOME specific problem (surely, it can be there somewhere else as well) then I would like to suggest that we should try to figure what exactly goes wrong with Bengali shortcuts there? Is it fixable? BTW, I am no GNOME expert. So my opinion can be pretty naive here. Currently I have access to a Ubuntu Dapper box. BN shortcuts are working in GNOME. OK! I just did a test myself. My access machine runs GNOME in Debian Sarge. I was testing with Firefox. My keyboard switching combination is SHIFT+SHIFT [ setxkbmap -rules xfree86 -symbols en_US(pc104)+ben(probhat)+group(shift_toggle) ] It works FINE both with EN and BN shortcuts. Then I did a re-run of the test with a new keyboard switching combination CTRL+SHIFT. [ setxkbmap -rules xfree86 -symbols en_US(pc104)+ben(probhat)+group(ctrl_shift_toggle) ] It works for some but does not work for all shortcuts. This happens with both EN and BN shortcuts. I may be wrong but it seems to me that CTRL+SHIFT switching is potentially problematic. For example: suppose we need to press CTRL+KHA then (with probhat) we need to press CTRL+SHIFT+k. Please note that this combination can be a conflicting combination with the keyboard switching. Please feel free to add your opinion. Cheers, Golam --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
?? On 4/26/06, Golam Mortuza Hossain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/27/06, Jamil Ahmed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ?? :-)) I guess, its because of GMail's infamous encoding bug. See .. Message text garbled? options in GMail for more. In any case, I am enclosing my last mail in default encoding this time. -- On 4/26/06, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In other words, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have different policies for different desktops. I agree. I think, it makes sense. If I am not wrong then shortcuts are used by people whose geekiness is considerably high :-) Also, such users are generally hooked to a particular desktop of their choice and certainly dont switch between desktops every morning. So it is OK and desirable (if needed) to have different policies for KDE and GNOME shortcuts. Golam - --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
Re: [Ankur-core] Re: shortcut key combinations
On 4/26/06, Deepayan Sarkar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 4/26/06, Runa B [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As this has become a major policy decision am moving the thread to core. Progga wrote: On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 11:24:07AM +0530, Runa B wrote: Any updates on these two issues. cc-ing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] as well. regards I have said many times that I have absolutely no problem with bn shortcuts. Can you share more details about the distro and any other patches that you might be using, so that this option can be explored further. There's been no decision in this regard in Ankur either. So please clarify this through further discussion in the core list. There have been ***numerous*** mails sent about this issue over the past 2 years hoping that after discussing it thoroughly a consensus would be reached. Links follow. 1) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=5540743forum_id=12023 2) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=11008260 3) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=13195504 4) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=7531311forum_id=24633 I have been meaning to respond on this issue, but I couldn't find a particular reference I was looking for. It's not any of the above, and maybe it was not a public thread (perhaps someone else will be able to remember). It was, if I remember correctly, a discussion that ended with the _final_ decision that bengali shortcuts would be used (this happened around the time KDE translation was started). I was initially against this, but Taneem made an argument that convinced me. See these links. :) http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=540 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=541 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=542 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=543 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=5416065 Best, `Jamil --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnkkid0709bid3057dat1642 ___ Bengalinux-core mailing list Bengalinux-core@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bengalinux-core
