slightly OT (bullmastiff) breeder concerns
Hi, Well along the lines of Where did you get your dog and breeder concerns over potential puppy buyer.go to the link below and you can read about the story of a bullmastiff that the breeder thought was placed in a wonderfull home. Turns out otherwise. http://www.bulhaven.com/Private%20Tygger.htm You can understand why breeders ask many questions of PP buyers and why they should be doing follow ups in the years after! Joan and Sophia Ontario
Mastitis
Hi everybody just wanted to 'pass along' info as well as ask questions about Mastitis. Our three year old girl Addy had puppies four weeks ago and has been the perfect mom. Thursday we came home about 3 and found her lifeless, throwing up and shaking in the rear. We had only been gone about two hours from watching her nurse pups. Made mad dash to our vet. He first thought it was calcium drain. Did blood work NOTHING showed up wrong but he knew she was one sick puppy. Temp was 106.5. At the time there were no enlarged or bad looking breasts. Had us put her in an all night clinic to give her IV's and watch her. They started her on pencillian and another antibotic. She felt better the next day but you could feel the lump in one of her breast and it was 'hot'. I've heard this referred to as MILK FEVER in cows. Anyway hopefully all is well now, we understand it's undercontrol after about five bags of fluids and several pencillian shots into the breast to try and break up the knot. Now we have a 'purple' scar on the outside of the breast which the vet says will scale off. Has anyone had experience with this? What has been the prognosis with your girl when it happened? Did anyone have a girl that lost a breast from it? We checked her daily on each of her breast and there was never any sign until BAM it happened. WE really were afraid Thursday night we were loosign her but quick action and good vets and modern drugs saved the day.I'll look forward to anyone's experiences. bill dunnavant Kotten Kennels
...not Frito feet
After all, this list is where I learned my dog's feet smell like Fritos :-) Marjie No no, Marjie, you have got it all wrong. This is the list where you learn your dog's feet smell like *popcorn*. Libby Kesner and the Berner girls of Maine Voorheesville NY USA
FW: AND THE WINNER IS.........(Lobby Fund raffle for black and white sketch)
Posted in plain text in case you couldn't read it! Congratulations to Marsha! Pat Long, a babysat Daisy, ( Luther) Berwyn PA -Original Message- From: TERRY ZIMMERMAN Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 10:35 PM To: berner-l; bmdcgsmembers; bmdclubs; bmdlobby; ebnetbmd1; Marsha Hargrave; meadowwoodbmd Subject: AND THE WINNER IS.(Lobby Fund raffle for black and white sketch) A huge thank you to those that participated in this raffle. I think we just may be able to talk Lace into donating another sketch for one of the upcoming raffles but in the meantime the winner of this one is: Marsha Hargrave Congratulations Marsha.
Re: Kenny's choice
Thanks Lisa, Although your information was very negative I apprieciate and need to know both good and bad of berner ownership. You say you paid 30X the purchase price of your berner for his illness? The breeder I met and very much liked gets $1500 per pup. If in fact that is the going rate do you mean to tell me that I should expect to pay $45000.00 for vet charges for my berner? Is there insurance available for them because $45k is way over my expected berner vet budget expectations?? Concerned. Kenny
Re: Kenny's choice
In a message dated 03/02/2003 8:03:01 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If in fact that is the going rate do you mean to tell me that I should expect to pay $45000.00 for vet charges for my berner? Is there insurance available for them because $45k is way over my expected berner vet budget expectations?? Kenny - While I do not mean to diminish the impact of Lisa's statement, I do not believe that the vast majority of Bernese owners spend anywhere near that amount on their dog's health care. Anyone can have the misfortune of severe and expensive illness in their pet and this is not limited to Bernese, nor are Berners particularly more susceptible to high cost problems than many other breeds, it seems that Berner owners/breeders are more open about the challenges they face. I have met thousands of Berners over the past 8 years and most of them are as healthy as dogs of other breeds I know. When it comes to the actual health costs, I can only relate what I have spent on my Flash. His average medical bills for any one year run about $400 - $500. This is strictly veterinary care and includes things such as heart worm tests and preventative medicine, annual booster vaccinations, biennial dentistry, annual blood panel and thyroid panel (he is hypothyroid) plus thyroid medication and miscellaneous visits to the vet for things such as a hematoma in the ear flap, a case of sarcoptic mange and currently a middle and outer ear infection that is resisting treatment. Now this may sound like a lot when written together this way G, but this is over a period of almost 7 years! And none of these issues is particularly Berner related, they could just as easily been found in my old Rottie, my Cavalier or any mixed breed! There are pet insurance companies, but their coverage is limited in maximum payments and they will not cover a claim if they feel (and it is their total decision) the condition is any way related to a genetic or congenital problem! Owning a dog, like having a child, is a big committment of both time and money. But the rewards are priceless. Anne Copeland, Flash,TDI/CGC (Berner, 8 1/2 yrs.) Gypsy TDI/CGC(Rescue Cavalier,2 yrs.) BMDCSEW Tracking Test Chair/Sec. NE ILL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ty's memorial page: http://www.geocities.com/workingyorkie/ty.html Gypsy's page:http://hometown.aol.com/annes4/Gypsy.html
Re: ...not Frito feet
Wouldn't this depend on where the dog has been walking ??? Ahem , Laurie Montoya S. Central PA (tongue firmly in cheeky) After all, this list is where I learned my dog's feet smell like Fritos :-) Marjie No no, Marjie, you have got it all wrong. This is the list where you learn your dog's feet smell like *popcorn*. Libby Kesner
re: Kenny's choice(long response)
Kenny wroter: If in fact that is the going rate do you mean to tell me that I should expect to pay $45000.00 for vet charges for my berner? This sum is not what I would consider at all typical for the health care of the average berner. Most of us do not have the financial means to be able to pay for that kind of care. Fortunately, in many instances, it is not necessary. I have an 11 y.o. berner here who has not needed much more than preventive care for the bulk of her life(vaccines, heartworm medicine, dietary supplements, etc). I also have a berner who I just spent $1300 on to have an MRI done, which confirmed a trigeminal nerve tumor. This will of course lead to more expenses, as I try to keep him as comfortable and happy as I can for whatever time he has left, trying to make that good quality time as long as possible. The expenses related to the health care of berners, as in any living creature, are quite variable. Getting your dog from a responsible breeder helps minimize the risks of potential health problems, but can't eliminate the risk. Some berners have orthopedic problems, some of which are treated through surgery, others through more conservative means. Various cancers are prevalent in all dogs, with particular varieties more common in berners(like malignant histiocytosis). Incidences of auto-immune disorders, allergy problems, vision problems like PRA, thyroid disorders, and cardiac disorders have all been reported on this list. Many berners lead uneventful and healthy lives. Further, decisions about what can and should be done related to health issues are just as varied and individual. Some folks feel that it is most important to keep their dogs alive as long as possible, and that no expense is too much to achieve this goal. Others feel that sometimes the cure or treatment causes as much suffering as the illness, and prefer to let their dogs go, rather than prolong the suffering. This is no different than what we as humans struggle with in health decisions related to critically or terminally ill spouses, parents and children. Ask 10 people what their philosophy is about end of life care and decision making, and you will probably get 10 different opinions. Finally, some folks would like to be able to do more, but the cruel reality for all of us is that health care is expensive, and that everyone has different and limited means to meet that expense. I don't personally have any experience with health insurance for pets, so I can't comment on whether it is helpful or not. There was a discussion about it on this list a while ago - a search through the archives would give you more information about the pros and cons. Keep asking questions - its the best way to make an informed decision that you will be comfortable with. Ann Skinner, Tatters and Kerzon
Kenny's choice
As you have noticed, I do not mince words where the welfare of the Bernese Mountain Dog is concerned because I do not feel I am serving the breed by being any less than completely honest, as my mind dictates. What I had hoped to state was that this breed has some very serious health problems and even the well-bred dogs are not immune from them. Should your Bernese fall ill with one or more of these problems, it is not unheard of to be required to spend several thousand dollars, often to save the dog's life or to establish a diagnosis or to evaluate his condition, often in the course of a several day time period. I would recommend that every Bernese owner have at least, actually more, three thousand dollars tucked safely away, should the dog's health deteriorate. And, sometimes, there is no warning. My current Berner was fine one day and the next day found him lying on his side, clearly in pain; this was the beginning of our autoimmune saga. As to his osteosarcoma, we were merely Xraying for the progression of his arthritis, to determine the best management regimen for him. The Xray, surprisingly, revealed a very suspicious area on his femur and a biopsy, where half a dozen specimens were taken, clearly indicated bone cancer. This kind of cancer spreads aggressively through the blood stream and a week later, the leg was amputated to remove the primary tumor site. Each chemotherapy session cost one thousand dollars. I was brought up to not discuss costs BUT I do not feel that being any less than brutally honest about what can occur serves anyone well, especially the dog. My previous Berner, also well-bred, lost a leg to synovial cell sarcoma. I consider my dogs family and would do anything necessary to ascertain a long and quality life for each. To me, toasters are replaceable, living beings are not. It has been discussed that there might well be no lines free from cancer in the breed and immune system and orthopedic problems are not uncommon. I have been owned by Berners for twenty years, each has lived a very long life, considering the breed, and while the Bernese is unequaled in devotion, sensitivity, and sheer physical beauty, the health of the breed is, in my opinion, poor at best. There are indeed pet insurance companies and I have signed up my one year old Swiss dog for such. Ascertain that the company you select will cover conditions known to be a problem in the breed. Lisa Allen _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
Berner vs Golden
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Re: Mastitis
Bill, We encountered in one of our girls almost the same scenario you have discribed in your dog. It was just one breast, and the vet cultured it to find e-coli. At four weeks of age those puppies already have sharp teeth and we feel that a puppy punctured mom's breast, which in turn left it open to e-coli that can be found in puppy stools. Mom cleans the puppies, and the sore breast and infection can occur. After several days on the antibiotics and warm compresses applied several times a day to the affected breast, a small (not even dime sized) pus pocket ruptured on the affected breast and we cleaned it, and kept it cleaned, and it healed fine. We were able to let the puppies continue to nurse with supervision (there were only 3) and they avoided that breast. This girl had no history of mastitis in her first litter of one puppy and LOTS of milk, and did not get it in the next litter of two puppies after this episode. So, with the puppies already 3-4 weeks old when she got sick we're pretty confident it was due to a puppy bite. Mastitis no matter what the cause comes on quickly and can be deadly if not treated promptly, and throughly. Puppies should not be allowed to nurse the breast. If not treated promptly the whole breast can rupture, and could require amputation. Always check mom's breasts when nursing, feel for any hard lumps, or hot areas. This indicates an infection. If a nursing bitch refuses food, call the vet. Healthy Mom's usually have a ravenous appetite! Bernerly, Mary Jeff Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners N. California, USA http://snobear.freeyellow.com When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself. Wayne Dyer - Psychotherapist, Author and Speaker
Nuschi's pups, cont.....
Since I have received several congratulatory posts and questions as to where the names of Nuschi's pups originated, I thought I would let you know she is having a false pregnancy and the names are actually stuffed animals she is claiming as her babies. Since my post yesterday she has whelped another 6 puppies - gorilla, orange bear, reindeer, wiggly giggly dumb bell (that must have hurt), 2 headed snake, and rabbit. So she has a proud litter of 10 (I think that is all the stuffed animals I have in the house). Nuschi is only 16 months old and this is following her first real heat cycle. Her mom was in heat at the same time and was bred. Raven is due to whelp real puppies in the next 48 hours so that may be causing this exaggerated effect on Nuschi. This is not uncommon behavior but it is quite comical. I prefer this and guarding my bed much more to the digging to China in the mud that has preceded this. Now all she wants to do is get back inside to guard her brood from the other 3 dogs. In another 3-4 days this will pass and she will be her normal self again. These dogs crack me up sometimes! Molly and the gang Charlottesville, VA
Re: Kenny's choice
Kenny -- I don't believe you will find that 30X purchase price to be at all typical - however, it is possible - especially if your dog lives to be a veteran and develops any kind of serious health problem. We don't have that kind of money either! However, we spent over $1000 in a two week period on our first BMD, Toby, just before he died from MH. There were blood tests, ultrasounds, emergency boarding, medication, and then euthanasia. We have also spent quite a bit on our 2nd BMD since we got him in Nov 2001. He is a rehome that his breeder entrusted us with. We took him to the vet when we first got him - for routine checkup vaccinations - and found out he has renal failure. It has cost over $1600 so far for his testing, special diet, etc. Fortunately, our breeder helped with the initial testing neutering expenses. With 2 dogs and 3 cats in our home we spend an average of $1100 to $1200 a year on normal maintenance animal care - and the special cases are over and above that. We took in my sister's dog when she got sick (she had tumors which led to renal failure, and my sister couldn't take care of her). In a 2 week period we spent over $800 on tests and meds on her. It varies from dog to dog, and I don't think any one breed will end up costing more than any other breed (my opinion only). Taking responsibility for another life, human or animal, involves cost commitment. Some people can take on that responsibility; others can't. And many more do, but shouldn't have ;-( I'm sure the breeder you have been talking with can help you in your decision making. Good breeders are careful about who they entrust with the life of one of their kids. Let us know. Liz Steinweg The Crew Blue Moon's Baloo Berry Torte Baloo Bobby Sox (husky-x), Figaro (20+ lb Forest Cat) Rio Sahara (the Rat Cats) and in loving memory of my 1st BMD - Toby (6/29/97 - 6/30/00 lost to MH) Colorado Springs CO http://www.csbservices.com/personal/personal.htm - Original Message - From: Kenneth L Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] do you mean to tell me that I should expect to pay $45000.00 for vet charges for my berner?
RE: Nuschi's puppies
Hi Molly, What wonderful news, you must be thrilled and I'd like to be the first to reserve Duck because I need a shorter leg on a breeding partner to Phoebe's only child. We are the proud parents of Moose:-) Rose -Original Message- From: Molly Bass [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 1, 2003 10:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Nuschi's puppies I am pleased to announce after a week of digging to China under the deck, porch, and both sets of stairs, Nuschi has finally whelped her beautiful litter of 4 - hammer, Santa, blue bear, and duck. Not only has she whelped this colorful litter that all make a different noise, she has done so on my bed. Therefore, no one is allowed anywhere near my bed and her vigilance in keeping the other dogs off the bed is quite admirable. The only problem is when I roll over on duck in the middle of the night only to jump out of my skin because of the wonderful singing of quack quack quack quack quack repeated three times.. oh these girls and their false pregnancies - I wonder sometimes. Molly and the gang Charlottesville, VA
Re: Do they Shed?
YES, but they are seasonal shedders- they shed twice a year for 6 months! :-) Bernerfur is a regular 'spice' around here... ~Rebecca (owned by Bernese since 1989) Canine-Corner from hair to heel Grooming Training Red Hook, NY www.canine-cornerbmd.com and/or Mid-Hudson Kennel Association, Ltd. Referral Chair/Instructor www.wiltwyck.com/mhka A DOG IS THE ONLY RELATIVE YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHOOSE SO CHOOSE WISELY! - Original Message - From: Lisa D Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 7:31 AM Subject: Do they Shed? ( Do they shed?...) Yes, they shed, big-time; ... _ --- [This e-mail was scanned for viruses by Webjogger's AntiVirus Protection System]
MH Questions
A recent post has highlighted some questions about definitively diagnosing malignant histiocytosis (MH) back to mind .. Just how *exactly* is a definitive diagnosis of MH made? What testing does the Fred Hutchinson Center for Cancer deem definitive of MH for sample submissions? I am of the understanding from a veterinary pathologist that it takes special equipment and/or procedures to differentiate MH from other disease entities in tissue samples. I can give a personal example of tissue submissions that were reported as mycosis fungoides (a rare type of lymphoma) but MH could not be ruled out without further testing requring specialized equipment. The remainder of these specific samples were forwarded to UC Davis and MH was definitively ruled out. I am under the impression that there is no diagnostic blood test for MH. Actually, in most of the information and posts I've read over the years, blood values seem to stay pretty normal. Those that are not pretty normal, could be indicative of a lot of disease processes/entities/causes. Is the only diagnostic tool for MH specific tissue biopsies being taken from suspected affected areas? And then do they have to be submitted to specific labs for a definitive diagnosis? A recent post also highlighted questions and concerns regarding definitive diagnosis of MH. Basic blood values are within limits; tissue pathology of the spleen are benign; yet a vet who sees a lot of Berners can pronounce a diagnosis of MH? Based on what? His assumption? There are a lot of cancers that metastazie to the lungs so I don't believe that could rule in or out MH. Using normal human vision, with or without the aid of eyeglasses, I know of **NO** vet that can give a definitive pathology report of a mass or masses just by looking. A best guess, maybe. But a definitive diagnosis, without a pathology submission/report? How many Berners are diagnosed with MH just on a vet's best guess and not confirmed with testing supporting this guess? Tailwags, Cathy Burlile Memories BMDs
NaturalBerners List is Temporarly Disabled
Please note that the Yahoo Group NaturalBerners is temporarly disabled for posting. We are experiencing big problems and I am hoping that at some point Yahoo will assist - I have no idea when that will happen. Please refrain from sending any posts until further notice - they will be bounced anyway. Sorry to use this group for the announcement. Thanks, Debbie Tripp List Owner/Administrator for NaturalBerners
RE: To Berner or not to Berner?? Or Bernese and Goldens
Hi Mary, A comment in your post intrigues me:-) I have asked this occasionally of PPO's, and the conventional answer is that that goldens have gotten too popular. They generally like everything about the goldens except their popularity. Are they changing from a Golden because they feel the breed has degenerated because of it's popularity or are they changing because they want a less common breed? Rose T.
RE: Help!
Hi Melissa, I hope you had Loki's urine checked again and possibly a culture done. UTI's can be particularly stubborn and sometimes a longer course of medication with a specific antibiotic is required. Rather than crate her in the event she still has some infection continuing I would restrict her to a room with a washable floor and set down some papers. You can talk to your vet about giving her cranberry extract capsules for a while to acidify her urine if that is needed but don't use methiodine as it can cause other problems in the young dog. Do not restrict her water intake either. Rose T. -Original Message- From: Melissa Chan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 1, 2003 7:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Help! Loki is a 7 month spayed female. We also have a 2 1/2 yo neutered male,Griffin. Here's our situation. Loki was seemingly potty trained as of about a month ago. We had stopped crating her altogether and she and Griffin seemed to be doing well together during the day. All of a sudden she started peeing everywhere. Naturally, we took her immediately to the vets and she had a urinary tract infection. The constant peeing cleared up within a day of being on antibiotics. She just finished her antibiotics yesturday. Since being on the medication, she has consistently had 1 accident everyday in the afternoon. She doesn't do it in the same spot either. It is important to note that we come home everyday during the week for lunch and let the dogs do their business and play a bit. My husband and I were wondering if we should start to crate her again to curb this peeing in the afternoon thing. She is almost 70 lbs and a little urine for is looks a lot like a lake. I'm getting really concerned that she is regressing in potty training since her infection. What do you all think would be the best course of action? Do you think there is some other medical problem? If so, what might that be? My husband thinks that I tend to over-react about our dogs' health(he's right), so I like to have input before I worry my self into a frenzy. Thanks in advance! Bernerly yours, Melissa, Loki, and Griffin (Portland, OR)
RE: MH Questions
Cathy, There is only one way that I know of to positively diagnose malignant histiocytosis, and that is by examination of a tumor sample, obtained either by biopsy or post mortem. That is also Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center's team's preferred diagnostic method as well. They have been accepting blood samples from dogs knowing that the diagnosis will only be made by the necropsy. People have been incredibly generous to donate the blood for the study, and then to help by verifying the diagnosis for the research process, as well as for their own knowledge. I had a biopsy done for my Hannibal, and I would not do it in those same circumstances again. It weakened him considerably, and I am convinced that it took at least several days that I might have had left to spend with him. I also had a necropsy done, since at the time of his death the results from the biopsy were not yet available. And as you suspect, I'm also sure many of us and many of our vets are assuming things are MH when they may not be. My Maggie had all the classic signs of MH, and both my vet and I were sure that's what it was. I had to insist on a necropsy - he thought it was unnecessary - and we were both shocked to learn that she did have liver cancer, but it was not MH. It was hepatocellular carcinoma, a type of cancer that is common in older dogs and cats. Pat Long, a babysat Daisy, ( Luther) Berwyn PA
My Berner Opinion
First off I'd like to thank everyone that has offered their opinions and experiences both good and bad. It seems like your mailing group contains a very diverse collection of Bernese Mountain Dog lovers! Some seem to dwell the negative while others embrace the positive. At this point I don't see myself spending several thousands of dollars for the illness of a dog that is near an unavoidable death. Hopefully that does not make me a bad person? Next, I am in love with the breed and choose to persue finding a good reputable breeder (which I think I already found). My decision will be based on my breeder and rest assured all the issues brought up in this forum will be discussed at great length between myself and which ever breeder I decide on. Finally, NO Teressa I don't cast away a sick pet! I will do the best I can with what ever means I have but I will not be spending ten's of thousand's of dollars on berner or any other pet that ultimatly faces terminal illness. I hope someone out there understands my point of view and that I am not condemed as some animal hater Thanks to ALL! Kenny
AKC/CHF Puppy Buyer's Guide to the Internet
Check it out! http://www.akcchf.org/news/press/releases/byrguide.htm A Puppy BuyerÂ’s Guide to the Internet: Online Resources to Find and Raise a Healthy Purebred Dog Sharon Montville - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Hair There and Everywhere!
Or, as the local Berner club likes to say, they shed once, for 365 days. I don't mind pet hair at all. I probably wouldn't know how to breathe in air without it! The breeder of my first two Bernese told me, 20 years ago, that she cannot even slice open a baked potato without finding dog hair in it. A Berner owner with a baby who is now a teen told me she would find it in diapers. I was born and grew up in Detroit. I do my laundry regularly. Yet, even so, whenever I would leave New England to visit Detroit (dogs were boarded) my mother and sister would exclaim with amazement that wherever I sat, slept, etc., well, dog hair would be deposited. Since I am not a slob, I can only assume that it follows you! Lisa Allen _
Re: My Berner Opinion
Kenny -- All of us have to make the decisions which are ultimately best for us. Nobody can make those decisions for us - although some may condemn us for them ;-( Not wanting to spend thousands of dollars to prolong the life of a terminally ill pet is not a crime. Some on this List would disagree - they are entitled to. But do NOT let anyone else's opinion (including mine) make up your mind for you. Do what you feel is right. Who knows, you may actually find your opinion changes over time. And that's not a crime either ;-) Best wishes in whatever you decide. Liz Steinweg The Crew Blue Moon's Baloo Berry Torte Baloo Bobby Sox (husky-x), Figaro (20+ lb Forest Cat) Rio Sahara (the Rat Cats) and in loving memory of my 1st BMD - Toby (6/29/97 - 6/30/00 lost to MH) Colorado Springs CO http://www.csbservices.com/personal/personal.htm - Original Message - From: Kenneth L Babcock [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: My Berner Opinion First off I'd like to thank everyone that has offered their opinions and experiences both good and bad. It seems like your mailing group contains a very diverse collection of Bernese Mountain Dog lovers! Some seem to dwell the negative while others embrace the positive. At this point I don't see myself spending several thousands of dollars for the illness of a dog that is near an unavoidable death. Hopefully that does not make me a bad person? Next, I am in love with the breed and choose to persue finding a good reputable breeder (which I think I already found). My decision will be based on my breeder and rest assured all the issues brought up in this forum will be discussed at great length between myself and which ever breeder I decide on. Finally, NO Teressa I don't cast away a sick pet! I will do the best I can with what ever means I have but I will not be spending ten's of thousand's of dollars on berner or any other pet that ultimatly faces terminal illness. I hope someone out there understands my point of view and that I am not condemed as some animal hater Thanks to ALL! Kenny
WI regional news?
...news from the WI regional anyone??? Libby Kesner Voorheesville NY USA
Re: My Berner Opinion
Kenny, this is a truly special breed. I've not found one that is more personable, loving, communicative. My experience with our one dog is that our costs were about average with the added one or two nighttime emergency room trips (foxtails in the mouth once) over seven years. If you had asked me at that point I'd say the cost of a berner is like any dog and I've give you nothing but positive feedback. Fur? That's trivial. But now we find we've spent well over $10,000 in the last 10 months for two surgeries, ER, vet bills and intensive aftercare (meds, stretcher, expendables like wee-wee pads, special food and vitamins, pet sitters, physical therapy, acupuncture). We were responsible pet owners and we had saved for emergencies and were happy to have it to pay the first surgery and all the aftercare (and he recovered 95% btw - not a terminal illness case). It was the second one 8 months later that really got to us. If you were in our shoes with a healthy happy dog that suddenly one night became paralyzed, you'd probably opt to spend the $4,000 on the surgery and tests too rather than suddenly euthanize. And you'd be glad you did when he returned to his healthy self. However it will always remain a personal choice between owner and pet and issues such as quality of life must be evaluated. I don't know if pet insurance would have covered his two surgeries or if it would have been considered hereditary as insurance companies often swing in their favor when it comes to exemptions. But if you choose this wonderful, loving, special large breed you should seriously consider insurance. It was not as good 8 years ago when I checked into it, but it's improved since. It would certainly cover accidents. And also put aside money each month for a fund to take care of anything that wouldn't be covered by insurance. Something like 3x-4x the cost of your dog would not be unreasonable as I believe our case (10-11x) is more exceptional. I'm sure you will be very happy when you get your dog. This is a terrific community of berner-lovers and as you've seen there is a lot of wonderful support here on the list. I'm deeply endebted to the loving people here who continue to give us support during our whole ongoing ordeal. Your enthusiasm is wonderful but if you are considering breeding as you say, it can only help you to hear from owners and breeders who have had a variety of experiences, both positive and negative. And after all I've been through, I still find this breed to be the most special. Donna and Hugo
Kenny
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Rowyn's hips
I took my rescue boy Rowyn to work with me the other day. I had a double agenda -- I've been diligently treating a chronic filthy ear on him off and on since I got him in May '02 and felt it was time to have a proper look at it and flush it out. I knew from past attempts at proper looks, that sedation was going to be required. So I figured as he was at now at least 19 mos. old (we guesstimated his age at 10 mos. when I adopted him), I might as well take an x-ray of his hips while I had him sedated. I also did some bloodwork so that I have some baseline values for him (all nicely within normal limits). His hips are awesome!!! They're lovely and deep set and perfectly aligned. As are his elbows. Those orthopedics would be a credit to any bloodline! Too bad he's only 1/2 Berner (and 1/2 Border Collie) and we have no idea what bloodlines those are! His poor ear was another matter. My recent aggressive treatment has cleared out all the bacteria, leaving just a few yeast behind. When I finally flushed all the crap and debris out (in chunks no less), I could see that his ear drum is in tatters. No wonder he didn't want me looking at it with the scope. Hopefully, now that all the debris is gone, I'll be able to get the remaining yeast cleared up and keep it that way. I was months working on the other ear too, and it's been fine for months now. Rowyn has been a great addition to the menagerie! He's a very, very sweet and loving boy. Being 1/2 Border collie, he of course has a pretty high energy level, but fortunately, he does have an off switch! He's been showing some shyness lately when out in new situations, something we've been working on overcoming. He's better when out with the rest of the crew, but terribly withdrawn and nervous when out as an only dog. He'll even hide behind me and growl if approached by a stranger. To that end we've been attending obedience classes for the past couple of months (even if it is 1 hr. drive each way). At first he was terribly nervous and shy at class -- I couldn't even get him to look at me, and taking food or a toy was out of the question. We'd spend the entire class off at the side of the ring so as to not be in anybody's way and work on getting him to focus on me. Now, after 6 classes, he still won't hardly look at me or pay attention, but now it's because he's too busy trying to figure out which person has the best treats! He's actively approaching people and begging them to feed him, and having such a good time. I'm very proud of his progress! I doubt with that attitude if he'll ever make an obedience dog, but that's OK, I just want him to gain confidence. Now that I know he's orthopedically sound, I think the next route we'll take is to try him in some agility classes. He's certainly athletic enough! and I hope it will help his confidence further. Any other suggestions what I can do to help bring him out of his shell??? Getting strangers to feed him doesn't work, when he's nervous he won't even take the best treats from me. sue(Aeryn with Devyn Rowyn)
Re: WI regional news?
In a message dated 03/02/2003 2:58:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: news from the WI regional anyone??? Gee, thought no one would ever ask LOL. Sweepstakes: Best in Sweeps: 15 - 18 mo. dog - Mnt Spirit Aparition Dornbusch, breeder: Mylene Turbide, owner: Marie Wright Mylene Turbide. Best of Opposite: 12 - 15 mo. bitch - Bayley Van De Weyenberg, breeder: M. Jacobs B. Vanden Driessche, owner: Theo G. Parfet Amy E. Tucker Veteran Sweepstakes: Best in Sweepstakes: 9 older bitches - Brighteye Bailey Buffalo Gal CD TDX, breeder: Glenn Debbie Hotze, owner: Kathy Berge Best of Opposite: 7 - 9 yr. dogs - Ch. Dornbusch's the Conjuror CD, breeder: Maria Wright, owner: Susan E. Sanvido Maria C. Wright Best Junior Handler: Open Sr. Class - Rebecca Krumnow Best of Breed: Ch. Adesa I'm Stepping Out, breeder: Bobbi Kinley-Blewett C. Bergmann, owner: William Blewett Best of Opposite: Ch. Adesa Honky Tonk Woman, breeder: Bill 7 Bobbi Kinley-Blewett C. Bergmann, owner: Bobbi Kinley-Blewett Stephen M. Kimberly Elksnis Willi (This is mother and son!) Winners Dog: (35 dogs) 6 - 9 mo. puppy dog: Adesa Red Hot Chili Pepper, breeder:Bill Blewett Bobbi Kinley-Blewett C. Bergmann, owner: Bobbi Kinley-Blewett Wendy Hess Reserve Winners: 9 - 12 mo. puppy dog: Country Wings No More Credit, breeder: Kathleen Radke, owner: Doug Hildre Ondrea Hildre Winners Bitch: (39 bitches) Open Bitch: Swisskiss Sentimental Journey, breeder: Madeline Knowles, owner: Christine McLean G.W. Robinson Madeline Knowles G. Hu Reserve Winners: 9 - 12 mo. puppy bitch: De-Li's It's All Relative, breeder: Lilian Ostermiller, owner: Joanne Brault Best of Winners: Swisskiss Sentimental Journey Awards of Merit:Ch. Garissa Just A Little Crush Ch. L-Sin's Dream's and Desire's Ch. Ch. Stonehill's Black as Coal Ch. Co Wings Genie In a Bottle Stud Dog: Ch. Garissa Just a Little Crush Brood Bitch: Ch. Adesa Honky Tonk Woman High in Trial - Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, breeder: Deborah Glenn Hotze, owner: Vilma K. Kistner-Briggs Glenn Hotze Lots of lovely dogs and NO Snow! Anne Copeland, Flash,TDI/CGC (Berner, 8 1/2 yrs.) Gypsy TDI/CGC(Rescue Cavalier,2 yrs.) BMDCSEW Tracking Test Chair/Sec. NE ILL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ty's memorial page: http://www.geocities.com/workingyorkie/ty.html Gypsy's page:http://hometown.aol.com/annes4/Gypsy.html
Re: Do they Shed?
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Re:Healther care for Berners/Was Kennys Choice
We have always had three to five Bernese, plus two or more cats and two horses. I just went back thru 3 years of vet bills. The largest year was $1700.00 and the least was $1195.00. This included about $60.00 for horse shots each year and stud fee and board for our mare to the tune of $600.00 on the year we spent $1700.00. and the balance was on the dogs. There were more than likely some other small expenses that were not dog related so I would say maybe $900.00 per year for our 4 dogs when we had no major illness with the dogs. Five years back our 5 year old stud dog was diagnosed with a Mast Cell Tumor on the roof of his mouth. He was taken to WSU Vet School and all options were discussed, from surgery with skin grafts, chemo and you name it , we talked about it but We knew there were more cancer cells that were floating around if you want to call it that. We opted to take him home, feed him what ever he wanted to eat and just love and make him as comfortable as we could. He gave us 6 months of happiness and we gave him love in return. Does this make us a person that does not care for the health of their Berner, I think not,, but we would not put him thru the pain and suffering he would have had just to give us a few months more with him. He meant more to us than that. His ashes are in a Urn buried in the back yard where he can watch me each day to make sure I'm doing the chores right. One thing to bear in mind is that no matter how healthy the parents, and grandparents are regarding, hips,elbows, eyes, heart and so on, nature can and does often throw a very hard curve ball that could cost one a lot of money health wise. Ray Pat Burgett Eaglecap Bernese Talee,Lexi,,Bell, Shadow Max www.goodbernerfood.com http://users.eoni.com/~eaglecap/ Draminski Ovulation Detector Rep
Re: BERNER-L digest 4302
Hello List My dog loves driving in the car and will happily stay in the back seat as long as he is with me. If one had to leave a dog in a crate for three house or in the back seat of the car for three hours, which would you recommend? Esta Dalsass
RE: Dogs in Cars
Esta, My dogs love the car too, and would much prefer waiting for me there than at home. I take them most everywhere with me, from short errands to longer trips. *However* I am extremely careful about heat and ventilation. Even on cool days, bright sunshine can heat the inside of a car and pose a serious danger to a dog. In hot or very bright mild weather, dogs are much better off waiting at home. And even though Berners are very cold tolerant, as a rule, I don't take them out to wait in an unheated car in bitter weather. So like in all things, common sense wins the day. Patricia McIlveen (Yeoman, Reba Gus) Calgary Canada -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If one had to leave a dog in a crate for three house or in the back seat of the car for three hours, which would you recommend?
goldens and berners
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RE: ...not Frito feet
Ladies ladies, What is this foot sniffing fetish?? Can't say much for American popcorn Bleh:-0 Rose T. -Original Message- From: L. Montoya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: March 2, 2003 9:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Berner-L Subject: Re: ...not Frito feet Wouldn't this depend on where the dog has been walking ??? Ahem , Laurie Montoya S. Central PA (tongue firmly in cheeky) After all, this list is where I learned my dog's feet smell like Fritos :-) Marjie No no, Marjie, you have got it all wrong. This is the list where you learn your dog's feet smell like *popcorn*. Libby Kesner
Cost of a Berner
Kenny Thanks for opening up this valuable conversation with your question about the cost of keeping a Berner - healthy or not.It's the kind of issue that once you has fallen in love with a dog (or person, horse or car)most of us don't necessarily care to examine. I would encourage any prospective puppy owner to visit the Drs. Foster Smith website read Cost of A Dog. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2cat=1671articleid=1543 It's an enlightening article -there are far more expenses than you would think. Once owned/loved by a Berner it feels like having a child and the thought of not doing everything I could is painful to contemplate. That's the kicker: to avoid finding yourself in the position where you have to make a difficult choice to treat or not treat a dog with an illness based on finances rather than the diagnosis, prognosis and efficacy of a specific treatment. The cost of veterinary care in the northeast many urban areas is more than in other parts of the country. I try to keep about $2500.-3000. available for emergencies.For some dogs I have used that fund - for others it was never touched. This is the way I avoid making veterinary decisions on a financial basis. I have also chosen NOT to treat dogs with life threatening illnesses because of their age (over 8) and the quality of life they would enjoy and euthanize them instead. Joy is a big issue for me: as companion dogs I feel they are here only because of our pleasure/stewardship and my dogs must have sufficient joy or chance of joy in the near future. Each owner must make this very personal decision it involves not only the family finances but ethical values, religious beliefs, education about a particular illness (Thank you Pat Long and the berner-l community) and informed, sensitive veterinary care. Pet insurance is new and there are owners who are pleased and others who are disappointed with what they purchased:another individual choice where there is not much rock solid data. There are no right or wrong choices - only ones that are made without sufficient forethought planning. Read, read and read some more because once that gorgeous ball of affection and fluff walks in your home you'll not have lots of time to educate yourself! Thanks for stimulating a good discussion and welcome to the Berner community. Peace, Linda Seaver Belline Bedford, New York
RE: Cost of a Berner
don't forget the resources we have at www.berner.org http://www.berner.org/compilations/pdf_links.htm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 7:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cost of a Berner Kenny Thanks for opening up this valuable conversation with your question about the cost of keeping a Berner - healthy or not.It's the kind of issue that once you has fallen in love with a dog (or person, horse or car)most of us don't necessarily care to examine. I would encourage any prospective puppy owner to visit the Drs. Foster Smith website read Cost of A Dog. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2cat=1671articleid=1543 It's an enlightening article -there are far more expenses than you would think. Once owned/loved by a Berner it feels like having a child and the thought of not doing everything I could is painful to contemplate. That's the kicker: to avoid finding yourself in the position where you have to make a difficult choice to treat or not treat a dog with an illness based on finances rather than the diagnosis, prognosis and efficacy of a specific treatment. The cost of veterinary care in the northeast many urban areas is more than in other parts of the country. I try to keep about $2500.-3000. available for emergencies.For some dogs I have used that fund - for others it was never touched. This is the way I avoid making veterinary decisions on a financial basis. I have also chosen NOT to treat dogs with life threatening illnesses because of their age (over 8) and the quality of life they would enjoy and euthanize them instead. Joy is a big issue for me: as companion dogs I feel they are here only because of our pleasure/stewardship and my dogs must have sufficient joy or chance of joy in the near future. Each owner must make this very personal decision it involves not only the family finances but ethical values, religious beliefs, education about a particular illness (Thank you Pat Long and the berner-l community) and informed, sensitive veterinary care.. Pet insurance is new and there are owners who are pleased and others who are disappointed with what they purchased:another individual choice where there is not much rock solid data. There are no right or wrong choices - only ones that are made without sufficient forethought planning. Read, read and read some more because once that gorgeous ball of affection and fluff walks in your home you'll not have lots of time to educate yourself! Thanks for stimulating a good discussion and welcome to the Berner community. Peace, Linda Seaver Belline Bedford, New York
Re: MH Questions
In a message dated 3/2/2003 12:45:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How many Berners are diagnosed with MH just on a vet's best guess and not confirmed with testing supporting this guess? Good point, Cathy. When Arrow died at 22 months we pursued pathology through Antech, DOD's Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, the University of Wisconsin and UCDavis. Before he died tissue was sent to UPA. The U of WI found histio in his lung tissue, but could not be definite about the eye. UCDavis, the last to receive tissue samples, said the eye was a beautiful specimen of MH. All the other labs could not name the disease. When our 5 1/2 year old Stretch became seriously ill with thrombocyptopenia in the fall, I was convinced he had MH and almost lost hope. Fortunately the vets didn't give up and he has recovered completely. Obviously not MH, but had he died it would have taken a lot of convincing for me to believe it was anything but. What you don't know, you don't know. Carol Lingley Ijamsville, MD
BMDCC Specialty Fundraisers 2003
Hello Everyone, Just to let you know, the Bernese Mountain Dog Club of Canada will be holding two fundraising events at the 2003 Specialty in Ottawa this coming May. We will be having a raffle draw and a silent auction. The BMDCC Specialty Raffle will be held on the show site immediately following the Specialty judging on Sunday, 25 May 2003. We have a number of lovely and unique items already donated for prizes. They can been seen on the Specialty website at: http://members.rogers.com/bmdspecialty2003/bmdcc_fund_raiser.htm Tickets for the raffle are $3.00 each or 3 for $5.00. The silent auction will be held at the Specialty Banquet on Saturday evening 24 May 2003. Proceeds from the auction will go towards the BMDCC rescue, health and education funds. A preview of items to be offered for auction is displayed on http://members.rogers.com/bmdspecialty2003/silent.htm To purchase tickets for the raffle or to donate an item for either the raffle or the auction, please contact Kathy Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks again to all those people who have been so generous in giving their time and prize donations to this fundraising effort. ~~~ Robin Camken BMD Specialty 2003 Chair Ottawa, Ontario Canada = Robin Camken Ottawa, ON, Canada E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Karen and Stevie
Dear List, Well it is now Sunday evening and we have been through yet another rough period. This time I was the one with the problem but of course it directly effects Stevie. A well intentioned lady from my community brought over a lovely casserole because she felt that we had had a rough go of it (small communities as many of you know are like this). She was very tickled with her gesture and insisted that I give it a try while she was there, so I put on a pot of tea and dished myself out a small bowl of her tuna casserole. Within a few minutes of sampling it I started to feel a very well-remembered sensation on my tongue and lips. I questioned her about the tuna casserole and it was then she admitted to me that she had punched it up a bit with a special seafood medley that contained some baby clams. Well I have a very severe allergy to shellfish and we were off. I keep an Epi-Pen in my cupboard but have not had to use one for years. I went in and grabbed it off of the shelf and opened the cannister only to find that someone had discharged it (one of my young nephews perhaps, a few weeks back). My neighbor was absolutely hysterical to think that she had been the cause, and I had no choice but to summon the paramedics, I had some liquid Benadryl in the medicine cupboard and swilled some right out of the bottle but I could feel myself getting more light headed by the second. Then I vomited and more than likely vomited most of the Benadryl. The paramedics arrived and thankfully I knew them both, however, they still would not let me bring Stevie with me!! Imagine!! I knew it was futile to insist and yes I knew it was unrealistic. So off we went at full speed to the hospital, with instructions for my now sobbing neighbor to call my eldest son to come and care for my beloved Stevie. I actually lost consciousness in the ambulance due to my blood pressure bottoming out at 65/20. They administered Epinephrine and Oxygen and I came around. Well I ended up spending the night in intensive care and needed IV Dopamine for my blood pressure and IV Benadryl along with some bronchodilators and some steroids. Man our life is never dull around here. I insisted that I be released this afternoon at noon and my attending who I know very well relinquished after I told him about Stevie and he also knows that I am bull headed enough that I would have insisted anyways. I am feeling fine, a little wheezy and weak and my face still is pretty puffy looking, but I will be fine. My son is here with me tonight so I am not alone and he will help me with Stevie. I wanted to Thank my friend Cecilia who assisted my son with Stevie's feeding problem and provided so much needed support to both him and to me from so many thousands of miles away. A true friend indeed. Much Love to you Cecilia! Oh thank God for modern technology.Stevie was not eating or drinking well with me away and hardly moved from his place in the living room. It was a very tearful reunion for him and I today. I just hope that this doesn't set him back at all, he was sad enough but he does seem ok tonight, but he is anxious whenever I move off the couch. As long as I am relaxed here he is fine but whenever I move he scrambles to his unsteady legs and waits for me to move. Poor Stevie! Now I have put him through yet another stressful episode. Another chapter in the on going Stevie Saga . C'est la vie! (That's life!) Berner Hugs and gentle Kisses from Karen and Stevie xoxo P.S. Sorry this is so long!
Re: Kenny's choice
I agree that pet insurance is a good idea, but one should be aware that there are many exclusions. My Maddie ate about 3 feet of couch last fall when she was 4 or 5 months old...took her to the emerg. vet for treatment and the cost was covered. However, all her diagnostics/treatments for elbow dysplasia have been excluded (this is considered a genetic defect, apparently). When I first acquired Titan he had a bout of flea-bite dermatitis. Later that summer I bought the insurance; now I cannot get any coverage on skin conditions for him as they are considered a preexisting condition. I still think pet insurance is a good idea, however, and it is relatively affordable (about $17/month for each dog; this is VPI, Veterinary Pet Insurance). It's just wise to know up front about the things that may not be covered. Anne Cranford, NJ
RE: Kenny's choice
Kenny, you may find that you won't be spending $45,000 in vet bills, but as many of us have learned, you can't own just one berner at a time. I discovered when I adopted my second berner, Bailey, through our Rescue, that my free rescue dog cost me nearly $30,000 - not in vet bills, but in the cost of a new vehicle which could accommodate two dogs (and their duds)!! Betcha didn't think of THAT!! Mary and the girls, Laurel and Bailey, lounging comfortably in the back of their motor vehicle.
