a warm weather reminder
Hi all, We had a scare today that turned out well. Long story short, Tempi had a rattle snake pinned in the backyard. She was outside for 3 minutes or less. It was our little Rat Terrier who wanted to come in, which is unusual since she is a sun worshiper and enjoys the summer warmth. When I let her in, I decided it was time for Tempi to come in as well and found her running around a potters wheel on the back porch. And then I heard 'the noise'. A very ticked off rattler. We were very fortunate that no one, human or canine, was bitten. Just thought I'd pass on the reminder that some of those poisonous critters are out this time of year. It certainly hit home for us today. Lisa Bakersfield, CA
Silent Observers Taking The Next Step
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when will I stop growing
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Re: harnesses, Haltis, prong collars
Is there a proper way to put on a prong collar? I agree they are power steering. With two 95 pound dogs, I have been pulled off my feet, lucky I did not break something, just a bruised face. The dogs show great respect when I get them out in situations where absolute obedience is essential such as traffic. A trainer whom I respect suggested the use. But I neglected to learn if there is a right way and a wrong way to put them on. I know there is with a slip collar but I can't seem to apply the same reasoning to the prong collar. Thanks for any information. Sue Sacramento
Re: OFA/PennHIP
> I do not like PennHip for determining orthopedics for the same reaons > Dawn stated - it doesn't help with the issue of elbows. This breeding discussion is very interesting to non-breeders like me. I have also found previous discussions about OFA vs PennHIP interesting. I just had my 2 year old BARC girl evaluated by both OFA and PennHIP. It was not required by BARC, but I wanted the information for myself. Halley has OFA "fair" hips. 1 xray view. Her PennHIP scores were in the 10th percentile as compared to Bernese Mountain Dogs. 3 xray views. This means that 90% of Berners have better hips than she has. PennHIP also tells me she has no evidence of DJD. So, as a "novice" what do I think? That PennHIP has given me more information about my dogs hips. Would a breeder breed a dog with OFA "fair" hips? Perhaps, given the other factors that weigh in. Would a breeder breed a dog with hips that are in the 10th percentile for BMD's? I think that in a breed with the incidence of HD that Berner's have, that the 10th percentile is pretty risky. I feel her PennHip ratings are more accurate and give me more information. If elbow xrays are necessary as well, so be it. It is the cost of owning a Berner. My Halley-Storm does agility training, runs like the wind and leaps like a kangaroo. I am happy to spend money on gaining knowlege on my dogs. BARC pet dog, whatever. I like to know what I am dealing with and what my dog may need now to help her in the future. Janice Parky Halley and Wrigley Cape Cod, MA
re: timing of the second breeding
Kathie, When I do back-to-back breedings the time I wait is until the next heat cycle - this can be anywhere from six months (from the start of the previous heat cycle - which produces puppies six months from birthdate of previous litter - plus or minus) up to nine months, or more, if that is how long it takes the bitch to come into season again. They all differ! As it takes the uterus 4.5 months (about 135 days) to recover from the last cycle, I won't breed a bitch who cycles back as soon as this 4+ months as they won't carry a litter on this next cycle. Oh, they'll happily play hide the salami, but they won't get pups :-) Libby Kesner and the Berner girls of Maine Voorheesville NY USA
Timing on second breedings
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RE: distressed over Berner pup
Dear Rick (sorry if I guessed wrong!), As hard as it is, the best thing you can do is to leave that girl right where she is. If we buy her, the pet store owner will get more Berner puppies. If he keeps this girl long enough, he will lose money, and be less likely to want to get more Berner puppies. I put together a pamphlet for pet shops like this, you could print it out and put some information about your regional club on it, and ask the pet store owner if he would be willing to keep it to give to the lucky person who purchases the Berner puppy. I also have a sample letter you could give the store owner with the puppy, I will send that to you separately. The pamphlet is designed to welcome the new puppy owner into the Berner community, and give them somewhere to go for advice and help when they have questions. To see it, go to www.berner.org and click on "Berner U." Public Education Materials" or go directly to: http://www.berner.org/compilations/pdf_links.htm The pamphlet is an attachment at the bottom of the page. Pat Long, a babysat Daisy and Buddy, (& LUTHER!!!) Berwyn PA
re: Haltis and prong collars
Hi all, Just my personal experience-at around 8 months of age we needed some extra help with Bacchus. He was full of himself and I couldn't take the chance of him pulling me off my feet on a walk [I've had a total knee replacement, broke my hipetc, blah, blah]. We were taking obedience classes and first tried the halti. It looked like his spirit was broken when he wore the halti. He would stand with his head down, looking up at me with those big brown eyes.or else would be so fixated on removing it that he would try to rub it off on the helpers legs when we were doing the figure 8 in obedience. But it did prevent him from pulling. He just hated it. So, reluctantly, I tried the prong collar. I had never used one. He acted like it was no different from a buckle collar. Head up, tail wagging, happy. I did find you want the prong collar to fit snuglyand that [in our case] leash corrections were not necessary [in fact I believe they discourage any leash correction, instead let the dog pull once and learn that way]. He walked like a good boy with a happy face. Alsothis was only used for about 2 months. Bacchus got over his teenage years quickly and now at the age of 7 continues to be a gentle boy [of course he's also neutered nowLOL]. So keep that in mind.just because one might need a bit of temporary help.doesn't mean you have to use it forever. I've heard the same thing from people that have used haltis successfully. Again just my personal experience Cathi with Bacchus and Ari [mom never had to use ANYTHING on me!]
Re: distressed over Berner pup
As hard as this is please keep in mind you do not help this puppy's mother by saving this puppy. Mom is the slave of a puppy mill owner who breeds dogs purely for profit and doesn't care where or how they end up. The puppy mill owner who sold this puppy to a broker then to a pet store doesn't see anything wrong with this puppy ending up in a small lucite cage. Be brave and know that this puppy will eventually find a home but if it sells too fast or for the asking price it will simply tell the petstore owners that they need more of these puppies to make more money. What you can do is print some material about Bernese from the BMDCA.org website on care and raising of the puppy and ask the store owner to give it to the buyers. See if they will give the buyer your name and number where they can contact you for questions and guidance. Be supportive of the buyer if they contact you as they will not have any input from a reputable breeder to fall back on. This situation will be occuring more and more and we all need to know how to handle it and what to do. The main thing we all need to remember is never never never buy anything from any pet store that sells any live dogs and cats (some would say any animal but I don't have problems with things that you can flush, I know this is probably not politically correct of me but it's just how I feel, sorry) Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:59:48 -0400 Rick Grinstead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I went to a new pet store - Petland in Maryville, Tn. today to see > if > they carryInnova dog food - they do not - BUT they had a Berner pup- > > just got it there - I felt so bad I could have cried - it was behind > a > lucite door in a small pen - any advise in how to get the word > about > this - it is a nine week female and they are asking $2,031.99 . > Please > help - this sweetie doesn't need to be growing up in a pet store - > > unsocialized and alone. > > >
distressed over Berner pup
I went to a new pet store - Petland in Maryville, Tn. today to see if they carryInnova dog food - they do not - BUT they had a Berner pup- just got it there - I felt so bad I could have cried - it was behind a lucite door in a small pen - any advise in how to get the word about this - it is a nine week female and they are asking $2,031.99 . Please help - this sweetie doesn't need to be growing up in a pet store - unsocialized and alone.
Re: GDC and BernerGarde
Pat, What I was saying is that the OFA prelims won't show up in BG. I won't ask pet owners to xray again once they've done it the first time...sorry for the confusion Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara On Tue, 29 Jul 2003 18:02:38 -0400 "Pat Long & Paul Dangel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> but unfortunately doesn't show up on BG > > Susan, > > I would like to respond to this one, I know it's often confused many > of > us. GDC and BG are two different organizations, and registry in GDC > was > not automatically fed to Berner-Garde. The information you see in > Berner-Garde comes from many sources, but for GDC it came primarily > from > owner submissions after they got the results from GDC. Many people > assumed that by getting a GDC registration that it would also be in > Berner-Garde, which has never been the case. > > So if you have data that needs to go into Berner-Garde, send it > along to > me, and I'll get it in just as quickly as can be! > > Pat Long, > Berner-Garde trustee and interim file manager > Berwyn PA > > > > > >
GDC and BernerGarde
>> but unfortunately doesn't show up on BG Susan, I would like to respond to this one, I know it's often confused many of us. GDC and BG are two different organizations, and registry in GDC was not automatically fed to Berner-Garde. The information you see in Berner-Garde comes from many sources, but for GDC it came primarily from owner submissions after they got the results from GDC. Many people assumed that by getting a GDC registration that it would also be in Berner-Garde, which has never been the case. So if you have data that needs to go into Berner-Garde, send it along to me, and I'll get it in just as quickly as can be! Pat Long, Berner-Garde trustee and interim file manager Berwyn PA
Discussions
We have always had blowups for the same reason. When someone states that something being done is horrible, it causes extreme reactions. Nothing will get people riled up faster than to accuse them of doing things to hurt their dogs, or hurting Berners or dogs in general, for example: Crating is cruel. Kibble is poison, it's made up of dead pets with drugs in them. BARF is full of e-coli and salmonella. Buying dogs at auction is wrong. We've seen these in the past, and we'll see it again. If you disagree with someone, find a positive way to disagree. For example: Instead of crating, I sleep alongside my dog and let it out whenever it moves. I've researched kibble extensively, and here is a list of articles that explain the contents and the source of the different foods. Have there been any studies done on the risk of e-coli and salmonella to dogs from eating raw foods? I'd very much like to learn more about that aspect of BARF. My efforts in reducing the exploitation of Berners has been to attend dog shows and spend time making newbies feel welcome and answering any questions they have. There are endless ways to have a discussion with a positive spin. No one will ever change anyone's mind by inflammatory statements that accuse them of ill-treating dogs. It puts them on the defensive, and gets people upset rather than getting them to think. It will also get you booted off the Berner-L faster than almost anything else. I hate to do that, but I have done it in the past and suspect that I will do it in the future. This List is a pleasant place. We have discussions, we don't accuse each other of vile things. We are sweet, and considerate. We are respectful of other people even if we don't agree with something they've said. I know that's hard. Trust me, I know that's hard. If someone sends you a private post that you find offensive, please forward it to me and I will try to find the appropriate action to be taken. Please do not forward it to the List. For those of you who are new, we have these spats every now and then, I'm afraid we've been long overdue. We have many people from all over the world. Different cultures view aspects of dog ownership very differently. Finding ways to share those different aspects without being aggressive, well, that's the challenge. And I know it's not always easy. Thank you to everyone who makes the effort to do so. I know that I do appreciate learning how different people handle aspects of dog ownership, breeding, rescue, training, feeding, etc. And I'm sure many others do as well. Pat Long, Berner-L Co-Owner Berwyn PA
Re: Timing on Second breedings
How I determine how things are going is probably not the best way. I found GDC to be confusing to vets and owners and got really poor compliance even when I sent the family the forms to submit, the vets still used OFA prelims. This was sufficient for me but unfortunately doesn't show up on BG so many times this info seems to be lacking. I still want OFA however, I am realistic and do not ask families to xray twice, once at one year and again at 2. What I want to know at is simply are the puppies I've produced at one year of age vital and healthy. Have they had any limping? Are the dogs easy keepers or are they at the vet every other week with hotspots or ear infections? Do they eat well and have good stools? Are they in good coat and do they greet the day with a smile :) ? If at one year I hear that the dogs I've bred are those things then I have IMO done pretty good and feel ok moving on. Now that isn't to say at two the dog will clear but I have produced dogs that have mild hip dysplasia that are happy and vigorous and the owners would not have known if they hadn't checked. By checking we can talk about supplements to prolong quality of life. While caution should be taken common sense should also step in when evaluating the success of a healthy litter. Orthopedics are only one aspect of a successful litter. Temperament, trainability, adaptability, easy care, nice appearance IMO are what most owners are looking for. A dog that may not be clear orthopedically but not clinical can still fulfill the needs of a successful breeding and provide the owners with everything they look for in a healthy companion. In the advent of a disaster breeding I think one must always consider the combination and with great care proceed to breed the bitch to an unrelated male if she is worthy of a second attempt. The most important thing in this breeding is the open disclosure of the breeder to PPO regarding potential problems seen in the previous breeding so that PPO can make an informed decision if they feel this is a litter they feel comfortable with or not. Recently when looking at risky breedings (unclear sire/dam) I have started to ask myself, "would I want a puppy from this breeding". If I seriously can answer yes then I feel comfortable doing the breeding and just make sure that the buyer fully is aware of the risk. I do not like PennHip for determining orthopedics for the same reaons Dawn stated - it doesn't help with the issue of elbows. Only time can solve that issue. I am currently looking at using a young male who will not be 2 yrs old in time for the breeding so his owners have submitted to OVC. They do plan to recheck his hips at 2 yrs with OFA. I have no problem with OFA prelims as long as it is followed up with an OFA reading at 2yrs. Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
private posts
I am sorry that the entire list was brought into a personal discussion between me and a certain European list member today. In response to my post that a prong collar is one option for a dog who pulls on lead, this person sent me a highly insulting and judgemental private email. She even stated that since I would advocate using a prong collar, I "did not deserve to own a dog!" Well, for someone like me, that in and of itself was about the worst insult imaginable. Naturally, I replied in kind - privately - to her. I dont know what other type of reply she expected to her inflamatory and degrading words. She then tried to take the conversation public to the list, which I feel was innappropriate. I hope in the future this list stays as friendly and informative as it usually has been in the last 5-6 years that I have enjoyed it. Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy "Perc") and foster Bernerboys: Brew(Pat Long's dog 2B) and Buzz and foster PRT Daisy -- Any one want to adopt an adorable 10 lb Parson Russell Terrier (Jack Russell Terrier)?? :-)
San Francisco Visit
I'm going to be coming to San Francisco on August 23rd for work and I have the entire Sunday August 24th to sight see. If there are any berner fanciers in the Bay area that would be interested in meeting up, I'm sure I could use some good Berner conversation!! Please contact me privately if you would be interested in meeting. I'll be staying downtown at the Inn at Union Square. Thanks, Kim Morrow Susa Reg'd Saskatoon, SK http://www.bernesedogs.com
Re: go away
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Babysitting
Well, the first trick is to keep ButtHead away from the front door. [Note to self, the screen frame can be bent back into place, it's almost back now. Finish it tonight.] I'm covered in Berner fur, we just had some serious petting. A. Life is good! Pat Long, a babysat Daisy and Buddy (& LUTHER!!!) Berwyn PA
Re: Harnesses & Haltis?
Vilma, I will not continue this discussion - we are both adults, not kids. Sorry but I did not send any insults to you Vilma - sorry for all of you having to take part of this. The words you react towards was not at all personal to you. Margareta Strand > Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Svara till: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 16:05:15 EDT > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Kopia: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Ämne: Re: FW: Harnesses & Haltis? > > In a message dated 7/29/2003 3:56:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >> >> >> Do many got this kind of post? >> Worse than spam? >> > > Margareta, > That was a PRIVATE post I sent you. It was in reply to your highly insulting, > degrading private post that you FIRST sent me. > > You told me I did not deserve to own a dog. Are you surprised I was upset? > Isnt that the reaction you wanted? How did you think I would respond to your > insultssimply agree w/ your "excellent" judgement of me from thousands of > miles away and turn my dogs all over the the humane society tomorrow > > It is improper to send these to entire list. I did not forward your insults > to me on to the list like you just did. > > BTW, you also sent that in HTML so most people didnt even get it. > > > Vilma Briggs (Kistner) > Mt. Gilead, OH > U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT > Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT > U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT > Thirdtym's A Charm, CD > Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy "Perc") > and foster Bernerboys: Brew/Bruin and Buzz and PRT Daisy > > > >
Re: FW: Harnesses & Haltis?
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FW: Harnesses & Haltis?
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Re: harnesses, Haltis, prong collars
Vilma, As I answered you separately, at first I did not see your answer to the list. You sent two different replys. They who create the laws in our country knows a lot about what these collars means of punishment towards the dog. It is the reason why it is forbidden! I am also very glad for these on the list who tell us about their very positive way of caring for their dogs = without prong collars and without crates for puppies and older dogs. Lets hope and pray for the positive way of living and learning for everyone, Margareta Strand Stockholm Sweden > Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Svara till: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Datum: Tue, 29 Jul 2003 17:32:48 +0530 > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Kopia: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Ämne: Re: harnesses, Haltis, prong collars > > forwarded in plain text for Vilma: > > > In a message dated 7/29/2003 12:40:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >> prong collars are forbiddenand even if they was not forbidden I would not >> use them. The feeling of the best for the dog is always the most important, >> more important than my own convenience. >> > > Margaret, > Have you ever tried using a prong collar on a dog? Have you ever seen a dog > learn to wear one? You'd be surprised! Fitted and used proplerly, the dogs > really aren't bothered much by it, but they usually quickly stop trying to > dislocate mom's shoulder! A member of our Berner club actually had that happen > to her. When used properly, the prong collar/pinch collar doesn't hurt them in > any way the dog indicates, so I let the dog tell ME what stresses him too much > and what does not, I don't decide that for him. The overwhelming majority of > dogs don't show any body language or vocalisation that indicates stress > whatsoever. Wearing the prong collar does nothing to their attitude 99.9% of > the time, most dogs adapt amazingly well and very quickly and do not find it > to be aversive at all. > > Of course every tool is not for every dog, some dogs don't do well w/ head > halters, some flip out at citronella bark collars, some do fine w/ choke > collars -- all the opposite of what I recommend. You need to match the > individual dog and his handler to the tool. That is part of the skill of > being a dog trainer. And if you own just one dog, you ARE a dog trainer. :-) > > All dogs do not need a prong collar or head halter, many do fine on a flat > buckle collar, my own adult dogs dont wear them, and if you are lucky enough > to have well behaved dogs that's wonderful -- but there are a lot of dogs who > would not get to go on walks at all if they were that poorly behaved and > pulled that much. I think these dogs would much rather get to go places and do > things than be left home! > > Vilma Briggs (Kistner) > Mt. Gilead, OH > U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT > Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT > U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT > Thirdtym's A Charm, CD > Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy "Perc") > and foster Bernerboys: Brew (Pat Long's dog 2B) and Buzz > and foster PRT: Daisy > __ > __ > Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze > (http://www.mailbreeze.com) >
Re: harnesses, Haltis, prong collars
forwarded in plain text for Vilma: In a message dated 7/29/2003 12:40:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > prong collars are forbiddenand even if they was not forbidden I would not use > them. The feeling of the best for the dog is always the most important, more > important than my own convenience. > Margaret, Have you ever tried using a prong collar on a dog? Have you ever seen a dog learn to wear one? You'd be surprised! Fitted and used proplerly, the dogs really aren't bothered much by it, but they usually quickly stop trying to dislocate mom's shoulder! A member of our Berner club actually had that happen to her. When used properly, the prong collar/pinch collar doesn't hurt them in any way the dog indicates, so I let the dog tell ME what stresses him too much and what does not, I don't decide that for him. The overwhelming majority of dogs don't show any body language or vocalisation that indicates stress whatsoever. Wearing the prong collar does nothing to their attitude 99.9% of the time, most dogs adapt amazingly well and very quickly and do not find it to be aversive at all. Of course every tool is not for every dog, some dogs don't do well w/ head halters, some flip out at citronella bark collars, some do fine w/ choke collars -- all the opposite of what I recommend. You need to match the individual dog and his handler to the tool. That is part of the skill of being a dog trainer. And if you own just one dog, you ARE a dog trainer. :-) All dogs do not need a prong collar or head halter, many do fine on a flat buckle collar, my own adult dogs dont wear them, and if you are lucky enough to have well behaved dogs that's wonderful -- but there are a lot of dogs who would not get to go on walks at all if they were that poorly behaved and pulled that much. I think these dogs would much rather get to go places and do things than be left home! Vilma Briggs (Kistner) Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CD Hob Nob Clouds In My Coffee (puppy "Perc") and foster Bernerboys: Brew (Pat Long's dog 2B) and Buzz and foster PRT: Daisy Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
Re: Timing on Second breedings
On the subject of using PennHip to shorten the time frame for evaluating progeny: Personally, I will not use Penn Hip as I have had dogs injured by it as have others. When I sell a puppy, it is against my sales contract to use PennHip before the age of 12 months. This is my opinion and I'm not trying to debate Penn Hip here as I will not change my mind. However, this is a mute point as Penn Hip doesn't give you elbows anyway which puts you right back to the same time frame used by OFA. I feel that currently elbows are a worse problem in this breed than hips. I'd be more inclined to use OVC (Canadian Registry that certifiies at 18 months) than Penn Hip. I can tell you for a fact that many reputable and honorable BMDCA breeders are now using OFA prelims since we have lost GDC. Personally, I see no problem with this as all the registries are one tool in a very large picture. I like to see the x-rays myself in the presense of a skilled radiologist/vet and make my decision based on that along with the results of a registry. I don't use any registry as a Bible on which dog to breed. Flames happily deleted, Dawn Gabig, Classique Berners, Kansas City USA Our Website: http://ClassiqueBMD.homestead.com FREE Graphics: http://ClassiqueBMDs.homestead.com/graphics.html Heartland Club Website: http://www.hbmdc.org/
Re: Harnesses & Haltis?
Hi, My experience is I prefer take a walk with each dog instead of having trobles with 2 or 3 walked in the same time. It is also always necessary for dogs to go for a walk on their own - not always with company of other dogs. They behave differently and need time for themselves. No special collars are needed if you walk only with one. Sometimes I walk with 2 and I know these 2 dogs quite well and we choose the way we go, try to not confront other dogs I know are aggressive or "outspoken". I am not a friend of Halti and prong collars are forbiddenand even if they was not forbidden I would not use them. The feeling of the best for the dog is always the most important, more important than my own convenience. Bernerhugs to all, Margareta and Vincent
Re: Timing on Second breedings
Hey folks - what about PennHIP? You can do that at ?? 4 months?? - definitely by one year - and get very good evaluation of your dog's orthopedic situation! Yes, it costs more - but - the more who do it, the more probability of having the costs come down - Joan Robinson gabig wrote: In the late 70's a lady, who had a vision for improving the orthopedics of our breed, was promoting the idea of evaluating the progeny at age 2 yr. before considering breeding either the sire or dam again. There is a mathematical problem with this scenario: Since the loss of GDC in the US, we need to wait for OFA for hip & elbow evaluations. So, our breeding dogs/bitches need to be two to even start the evaluation process. IF we x-ray them that same day and then mail it to OFA, we'll get the results in about a month at best. That will make them 25 months. Most often more time will pass in this process for one reason or another. If we want all littermates of this potential dog/bitch to be bred to be x-rayed too, we may have to wait several months and often up to a year to get all the results. Next step for the bitches, we need to wait until they come in season which could be an additional 6 more months (or more). We need to hope that this timing will be a good time for us to breed and have a litter (we may have to wait another cycle for numerous reasons). All this will make the bitches closer to three than two for their first breeding. Now we need to add two months for gestation of her first litter and the same time for the progeny to get evaluated. Most breeders know that getting the entire litter x-rayed and evaluated correctly takes time, often up to a year. So our original bitch is now 6 or 7 when we are ready to breed her again (5 at best). Fertility vets will tell you that with each cycle that the bitch does not get pregnant, the progesterone will reek havoc with the lining of the uterus making it harder to get and hold a pregnancy (yes, there are exceptions). For males, this would make them around 5-6 before they have a second litter which isn't as big a concern. However, ask any semen collection/storage service and they will tell you that Bernese Sperm decreases in fertility for a number of reasons fast. I agree that evaluating the first progeny before more breedings take place is the best way to do it in a perfect world when we are trying to eliminate health concerns; but , in most cases, it's just not practical. Dawn Gabig, Classique Berners, Kansas City USA Our Website: http://ClassiqueBMD.homestead.com FREE Graphics: http://ClassiqueBMDs.homestead.com/graphics.html Heartland Club Website: http://www.hbmdc.org/
RE: free Abady food
Hi Jane, Most feed companies have a return policy but if you have no takers for your Abady food then why not donate it to your local animal shelter:-) Rose T.
RE: Harnesses & Haltis?
Hi Liz, You may not like my suggestion but try prong collars on the two loonies:-) Walk them individually when first using them and keep the leash loose, if they bounce off the leash they are going to correct themselves and the one time I needed absolute control my boy felt the collar once and never ever again. They looked like a lot of hardware but its rather like the curb bit on the horse rather than pull on a snaffle bit all the time it acutually is better for their necks than a choke chain. I doubt the Harness would work with a group of dogs, after all these are draft dogs and pulling on harness is natural:-) Halti's or Promise Collars may work but most of my dogs loathe them and despite my patience have thrown hissy fits with them, also if they forget themselves and launch after the demon car they could cause serious neck injury as their head would be jerked around in a twist. Your safety and paramount control comes first:-) Rose T.
Berner Contacts in Hawaii??
As chair of the BMDCA Breed Steward Program, I have been contacted by a woman in Hawaii who is looking to add a Benese to her family. The BMDCA has only one member listed in Hawaii and she has no email address (Paula Schmidt). Is there anyone out there in Berner-l land who knows of any contacts in the Islands to whom I can refer this individual? TIA for any assistance here. Anne Copeland (Flash CGC, TDIA, 9 yrs. old, Berner; Gypsy CGC, TDI, 2 yrs. old, Cavalier) Northern Illinois [EMAIL PROTECTED], Corr. Sec. BMDCA
Re: Timing on Second breedings
Since OFA will do prelims at the same age that GDC certified hips and elbows, I do believe that information about what a bitch has produced can be obtained when a litter is 12 months. Further, as I think Susan pointed out, bad problems with elbows or heart or even hips often show up before 12 months. An interesting question is what you do if a bitch produces a train wreck litter -- in other words, a litter with a bunch of problems. If at 12 months a litter is found to be very poor in terms of orthopedics, what do you do? Blame the sire and breed her again? Let's pretend that the sire has produced well with other bitches, now what? Blame the combination and breed her again to an unrelated male? Breeding offers such interesting and hard choices :) Mary-Ann Bowman Utah
Timing on Second breedings
> In the late 70's a lady, who had a vision for improving the orthopedics > of our breed, was promoting the idea of evaluating the progeny at age 2 > yr. before considering breeding either the sire or dam again. There is a mathematical problem with this scenario: Since the loss of GDC in the US, we need to wait for OFA for hip & elbow evaluations. So, our breeding dogs/bitches need to be two to even start the evaluation process. IF we x-ray them that same day and then mail it to OFA, we'll get the results in about a month at best. That will make them 25 months. Most often more time will pass in this process for one reason or another. If we want all littermates of this potential dog/bitch to be bred to be x-rayed too, we may have to wait several months and often up to a year to get all the results. Next step for the bitches, we need to wait until they come in season which could be an additional 6 more months (or more). We need to hope that this timing will be a good time for us to breed and have a litter (we may have to wait another cycle for numerous reasons). All this will make the bitches closer to three than two for their first breeding. Now we need to add two months for gestation of her first litter and the same time for the progeny to get evaluated. Most breeders know that getting the entire litter x-rayed and evaluated correctly takes time, often up to a year. So our original bitch is now 6 or 7 when we are ready to breed her again (5 at best). Fertility vets will tell you that with each cycle that the bitch does not get pregnant, the progesterone will reek havoc with the lining of the uterus making it harder to get and hold a pregnancy (yes, there are exceptions). For males, this would make them around 5-6 before they have a second litter which isn't as big a concern. However, ask any semen collection/storage service and they will tell you that Bernese Sperm decreases in fertility for a number of reasons fast. I agree that evaluating the first progeny before more breedings take place is the best way to do it in a perfect world when we are trying to eliminate health concerns; but , in most cases, it's just not practical. Dawn Gabig, Classique Berners, Kansas City USA Our Website: http://ClassiqueBMD.homestead.com FREE Graphics: http://ClassiqueBMDs.homestead.com/graphics.html Heartland Club Website: http://www.hbmdc.org/
Re: Mixed in shelters?Re: frequency of breeding & evaluation(long)
Hi Margareta, Thank you for the information. You do not have many dogs in the shelter. This is wonderful. Wish we didn't had such a big problem in the US. Maybe education, plus early spay/neuter will help for the future. Sylvia Katvala Tucson, AZ
Re: What a beautiful dog . . .
Marion, So sad reading about your precious Silla, I can feel every word in the poem you include. Lots of Bernerhugs to you and your dogs in days of darkness and memories, Margareta and Vincent Stockholm
Re: Vermont
Hello All The family and I are searching for a resort or home to rent in New England with a pool and where Fulton will be welcome for the week of Aug 25. Nothing like waiting until the last minute to plan a family vacation .Any suggestions?. Esta Dalsass NJ
freckles?!
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Re: Donna and her freckles!
Rose, I'm glad to hear that freckles haven't stood in your way in championships. I find the freckles an endearing quality on my Jude. She has quite a few as do many of her litter mates. It's probably the first thing I noticed about her physically and fell in love with.those and the small rust coloured patches over each eye that look just like human eye brows and really make each change in her facial expression very noticeable. Cheers, Melissa - Original Message - From: "Rose Tierney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 7:13 PM Subject: Donna and her freckles! > Hi Donna, > I'm famous for my freckles:-) It hasn't stopped me finishing championships > on my dogs and those that folk have bought from me. My Oska (Ch.Tertzo's > Jester) has freckles, stamps them on his kids and along with that we've had > a nice record of sound hips and elbows from him. In the grand scheme of > things a few freckles are nothing! I would certainly hope you don't discard > her for what is a minor cosmetic "fault". > > Rose T. >
Re: Harnesses & Haltis?
At 12:01 AM 29/07/2003 -0500, you wrote: But, and it is an almighty BUT... Maggie & Roxie play off each other: if they see another dog, or if people stand just out of their reach (and say "ooh, you've got your hands full there." Arrrgh) Oh, I wish I had a pound for every time someone said to me "ooh, you've got your hands full there." I'd be comfortably well off by now!! It's a bind taking my three dogs out at the same time. Boris just loves to dawdle and pee, and sniff, and pee, and pee (you get my drift). The two Belgians like to pretend that they are really two sled dogs and pull like they're in the Itarod. Heaven help me if they see another dog, squirrel, or horrors - a cat! Long story short, I have started walking them on a "supposedly no-pull" halter. This brand is called "Holt" and it came from petsmart. There are other makes like the sporn halter, but this is just the one I happened to try. It works, sort of. They are easier to handle, but they still pull a bit. Tanja, not so much as Tyra. The halters aren't too expensive so I reckon it's worth a try. Wendy, Boris and the pointy-pests Boris Beard Ottawa, Canada http://members.rogers.com/bernerboris/bernerbooks.html
What a beautiful dog . . .
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