Ozzie/Glucosamine
Hi all, I want to thank all of you for your replies concerning Ozzie and the problems he was having with his back legs when trying to get up from a down position. We have been giving him glucosamine for the past month and apparently it seems to be working. For the most part his stiffness seems to have disappeared and he doesn't seem to be struggling as before. This is good news. I will speak to my vet about xrays next month when Ozzie goes in for his yearly checkup. Thank you for your support and advice. Sheryl Taylor and Ozzie Richmond Hill, Ontario _
Re: Glucosamine
In a message dated 2/10/2003 6:09:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My boy Ozzie is now just over 13 months old, snip At around 4-1/2 months I started noticing that he would on occasion have a little difficulty getting up from a lying down position (hind legs). He still has the same difficulty but not all the time. After he is out running in the yard and/or playing with other dogs I find that when he comes in he is very stiff and on occasion starts to limp. This will last a day or so and then the limp and stiffness seems to go away. I am wondering if this is a sign that there could be a problem with his hips or arthritis? This is late, but as I haven't seen any responses on the list...I'll toss mine out. In a word, yes...what you've described may be symptoms of hip dysplasia and early stage arthritis. But it may also be symptoms of many other things as well...mild panosteitis, Lyme Disease, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, et al. So, before I'd start using a supplement...I'd want to do a few diagnostics so I know what it is I'm treating. Personally, I'd probably do hip and elbow xrays AND send them to OFA or OVC for evaluation. Depending on location, I'd also run a tick panel, doing the Lyme by Western Blot if he's been vaccinated for it. Discuss with your vet any other diseases prevalent in your area that it would make sense to screen for. If he's clear of orthopedic issues and infectious diseases, I'd probably run an ANA for possible auto-immune disease but that's more of a 'down the road' thing. DO chat with your breeder. If they're a responsible sort they'll want to know what you're experiencing, support you in resolving it, and utilize the information in their future breeding decisions. -Sherri Venditti
glucosamine supplement
Our boy, Olaf, had a bout with HOD (hypertrophic osteodystrophy) around 4 months of age, but thankfully, had a relatively mild case (although the x-rays looked terrible!). As part of his treatment regimen, we added glucosamine sulfate among other supplements on the advice of our holistic vet (I always get a second opinion from her!) Olaf once again started limping around a year of age and we put him back on the glucosamine sulfate and whether it is coincidence or not, he stopped limping soon after. We continue to give it to him, however, as we do believe it has helped him. There are many different kinds of glucosamine supplements, but the vet recommended this specifically. The one we buy is by Thorne. Good luck! Tambi Rondinone Goffstown, NH
Re: Glucosamine
While not a Berner, our Aussie pup has had limping problems from an early age. Diagnosed as possible pano at about 8 months when a Lyme titer was also run and came back negative. Now at 14 months he was having problems in the rear which looked to my untrained eye like cruciate problems - but this time the Lyme test came back POSITIVE!! Not sure if it's a problem in your area but please be sure to have the vet test for Lyme and other tickborne diseases. Barb Sheryl wrote: After he is out running in the yard and/or playing with other dogs I find that when he comes in he is very stiff and on occasion starts to limp. This will last a day or so and then the limp and stiffness seems to go away. I am wondering if this is a sign that there could be a problem with his hips or arthritis?
Re: Glucosamine / digest index
Pages with Glucosamine and Parvo added- http://www.berner.org/pages/temp_index.htm Hugh (Rockland County, New York) - Original Message - From: stella logan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 6:09 PM Subject: Glucosamine My boy Ozzie is now just over 13 months old, his height is 29 inches and he weighs 115 pounds (very lean boy). He has matured into a wonderful dog. I am happy to say we have had very few problems with him. At around 4-1/2 months I started noticing that he would on occasion have a little difficulty getting up from a lying down position (hind legs). He still has the same difficulty but not all the time. After he is out running in the yard and/or playing with other dogs I find that when he comes in he is very stiff and on occasion starts to limp. This will last a day or so and then the limp and stiffness seems to go away. I am wondering if this is a sign that there could be a problem with his hips or arthritis? My husband suggested we give him a supplement of glucosamine which works for humans with arthritis. Has anybody every tried this and if so what dosage? This group has been extremely helpful in the past and I am sure you will be again. Thanks Sheryl and Ozzie Ontario, Canada _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Glucosamine
My boy Ozzie is now just over 13 months old, his height is 29 inches and he weighs 115 pounds (very lean boy). He has matured into a wonderful dog. I am happy to say we have had very few problems with him. At around 4-1/2 months I started noticing that he would on occasion have a little difficulty getting up from a lying down position (hind legs). He still has the same difficulty but not all the time. After he is out running in the yard and/or playing with other dogs I find that when he comes in he is very stiff and on occasion starts to limp. This will last a day or so and then the limp and stiffness seems to go away. I am wondering if this is a sign that there could be a problem with his hips or arthritis? My husband suggested we give him a supplement of glucosamine which works for humans with arthritis. Has anybody every tried this and if so what dosage? This group has been extremely helpful in the past and I am sure you will be again. Thanks Sheryl and Ozzie Ontario, Canada _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin
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Glucosamine
I heard an arthritis doctor on the radio talking about the effectiveness of glucosamine in people. He said it has a noticeable positive effect in about 30% of people. If you don't notice an improvement after using it a couple of months, he said you are wasting your money. Valerie
RE: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
I do not use the COSTCO generic. I was speaking of the human version of Nutramax Cosequin DS which is Cosamin DS. Cosamin DS at Costco runs about $65 for 230 capsules with a rebate -- considerably cheaper than Cosequin DS from the vet. Nancy Melone -Original Message- From: Valerie Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 10:26 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Maybe. Maybe not. The brand name CosaminDS (Nutramax) from Costco is the one that has a lot of studies done on it - my vet recommended it even tho it is quite a bit more expensive than the Costco generic. There usually is a $10 rebate on it if you check on the web under CosaminDS. Valerie
RE: Glucosamine
Yes, that is consistent with what many vets will tell you also. Nancy Melone -Original Message- From: Valerie Young [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 10:34 AM To: berner-l Subject: Glucosamine I heard an arthritis doctor on the radio talking about the effectiveness of glucosamine in people. He said it has a noticeable positive effect in about 30% of people. If you don't notice an improvement after using it a couple of months, he said you are wasting your money. Valerie
Re: Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin
In a message dated 1/2/2003 11:56:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The surgeon who gave me the diagnosis told me that she was not a candidate for surgery but that she should have glucosamine/chondroitin supplementation for the rest of her life, Hi Anne, There are a bazillion glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate products out there, with both veterinary and human labelling. Not all the products are created equal... Independent lab tests have repeatedly shown than many (most) of the G/CS products didn't actually contain the level of active ingredients they were labelled as. Not much good to save money up front but end up paying for a placebo. So, I think the first question is which supplement are you going to use? The veterinary products with the strongest research behind them and credibility for having in the jar what's on the label, are Cosequin DS by Nutramax and GlycoFlex-II and GlycoFlex-III made by Vetri-Science Laboratories. You'll find extensive websites for both companies and dosing guidelines for treatment and maintainance based on weight. Both are theoretically sold sold through vets but I know Cosequin is widely available online and would guess the same might be true for Glyco-Flex. -Sherri Venditti
Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
In a message dated 1/3/2003 8:44:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. No one actually checks on them. Especially when you are talking about nutraceuticals and herbal type products that are produced and sold w/out the supervision of the FDA, you just never really know what you are getting. You know nothing about product purity or dosing. I was at a medical conference recently where a group of researchers actually bought 10 different brands of a common herbal product (I forget whether it was ginsing or black cohoshsomething like that) and analysed the products. All the companies had labeling that claimed the same dosage of the same product. The range of what WAS actually in the pills they were selling was amazingfrom NONE of the active ingredient at all to several times the dose listed. Buyer beware! If you are buying a product not under FDA regulation, I would go w/ a well recognised brand name w/ a repuation to protect. Vilma Briggs, MD Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC and Ted
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
Nancy wrote: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Vilma wrote: Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. and my .02 g The company that makes Cosequin DS (Nutramax Labs) markets the same product for people under the Cosemin DS label... as well as their original powder formulation for horses. Wish there was a Costco near meg -Sherri V.
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
The other thing to be concerned about when reviewing brands and ingredients is digestibility. I believe even opening the capsule and putting the powder on food makes a difference. The latest fad in vitamins is a spray delivery system for better absorption. More effective? I don't know. When these products first came out one of my vets mentioned that it made no sense to him that any of these supplements would be effective as he did not believe they stayed in the GI system long enough to be absorbed. But he also said he can't deny that he's seen positive effects, it just puzzled him. This was years back, don't know what his thinking is now. jane heggen the boys of iowa - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic Nancy wrote: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Vilma wrote: Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. and my .02 g The company that makes Cosequin DS (Nutramax Labs) markets the same product for people under the Cosemin DS label... as well as their original powder formulation for horses. Wish there was a Costco near meg -Sherri V.
RE: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
Vilma's advice is well taken. I do not buy a generic. The Cosamin DS for humans that I buy for my dogs is manufactured by the same company that manufactures Cosequin DS for veterinary use -- Nutramax. The human version claims to be the only G/C sulfate brand proven effective in controlled U.S. published studies to reduce joint pain and protect cartilage. Not that I believe everything that advertisers say, but I have stayed with the identical manufacturer of the vet prescribed G/C and use the human version, assuming that the human formulation is at least equal to or better than the veterinary one. I could be wrong, but given that I will use a G/C product this seemed to be my wisest choice. Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 6:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic In a message dated 1/3/2003 8:44:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. No one actually checks on them. Especially when you are talking about nutraceuticals and herbal type products that are produced and sold w/out the supervision of the FDA, you just never really know what you are getting. You know nothing about product purity or dosing. I was at a medical conference recently where a group of researchers actually bought 10 different brands of a common herbal product (I forget whether it was ginsing or black cohoshsomething like that) and analysed the products. All the companies had labeling that claimed the same dosage of the same product. The range of what WAS actually in the pills they were selling was amazingfrom NONE of the active ingredient at all to several times the dose listed. Buyer beware! If you are buying a product not under FDA regulation, I would go w/ a well recognised brand name w/ a repuation to protect. Vilma Briggs, MD Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC and Ted
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
In a message dated 1/3/2003 10:41:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When these products first came out one of my vets mentioned that it made no sense to him that any of these supplements would be effective as he did not believe they stayed in the GI system long enough to be absorbed. I don't know about absorption...but some of the academic papers I've read make a point of saying that their research was done using laboratory grade glucosamine or chondroitin sulfate and that they couldn't be sure the commercially available products would provide similar effects. -Sherri V.
Re: Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin
After having my parts puppy on Cosequin DS for a few years, she went down one day and was put on Rimadyl for two weeks. The response was amazing -- in two days she was up and about. At the end of the 2 week course, I switched her back to the Cosequin, due to concerns about the emerging evidence of previously undocumented sideeffects, and continued on that until she went down again about 6 months later. One quarter of one 75 mg chewable had my voracious foodhound off her food for 3 days. Shortly thereafter, one of her nephews was put on Rimadyl post-ACL surgery with the same reaction. I recommend against Rimadyl with my line of pups for that reason. Not long after this all happened, I tried SynoviCre (DVM Labs) and would not use Cosequin DS again! =) With the Cosequin, if I missed so much as one pill, Chance would be showing signs of discomfort and some days it just wouldn't do the job. The SynoviCre, in my experience, has been amazing -- miss a dose (thanks to Razzy stealing the tub and sprinkling it throughout the yard!) and she can go a good week without. I have suggested it to several of my clients and they all have had good results as well. I have recently switched to their new Synovi G3 and am still happy with it. It comes in liver flavored granules which I sprinkle over the food. All my hopes, Vicky and the Horde =P~
Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin
I have a seven-month-old puppy who has been limping off and on for three months. After x-rays, physical exam, and ultimately a CT scan, she has been diagnosed as having mild elbow dysplasia (didn't show up on x-rays) with some corresponding cartilage changes. The surgeon who gave me the diagnosis told me that she was not a candidate for surgery but that she should have glucosamine/chondroitin supplementation for the rest of her life, that she will experience arthritic changes, that her weight should be kept down, that she should receive moderate exercise, etc. All fine, but he was very vague regarding the supplementation. Can anyone share a good regimen for supplementing with glucosamine/chrondroitin in cases where arthritis is to become a problem as the dog's age advances? I am feeding Wellness, which already contains these supplements, but what is a realistic dosage for a puppy of this age (weighing approximately 65 pounds) when your ultimate goal is to ward off as much future arthritis as you can? Thanks for any advice you can share. Anne with Maddie and Titan Cranford, NJ
Glucosamine Chondroitin Sulfate
Just came across an excellent article on the use of glucosamine chondroitin sulfate in the treatment of arthritis. The how's and why's, caveats, and references. Interesting reading for anyone pondering whether to use glucosamine or chondroitin sulfate or a combo product...and which one. http://www.aboutjoints.com/physicianinfo/topics/osteoarthritisknee/chondro.htm -Sherri Venditti
