Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else
Michael, I have three female Llamas and one Akbash...love all of them...teh dog does bark and the Llamas are about the easiest and cheapest keeper guard animal I have. Dave -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Michael Smith Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 10:55 AM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else OK great Rod! this was my next question. No barking, and no jumping on my 2-year old kid or even acting protective and aggressive (but I suppose accidental stomping and/or kicking is a serious consideration). was going to ask how people do with Llamas or donkeys? My goat breeder who is right smack next to the hills in cougar country, has not had one hit. Her fencing has way less integrity than mine, but she has always had at least 1 Llama. Now has 3 or 4. I have heard a female is better than a male to prevent the male from pestering the animals. But what about a gelded donkey or llama? -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 6:50 PM, rodnas...@gmail.com rodnas...@gmail.com wrote: Carol this is Rod from Texas, The way I keep my black belly sheep safe because I have coyotes and silver foxes. I got me and Jerusalem donkey guard donkey that is. Ever since then I have not lost one Lamb, Ram, or ewe. It eats the same thing my sheep eat. You can't separate him from my sheep he gets mad starts Bellari. It was the best hundred dollar investment I ever made. LLRB HotRod 3% IV Corps TX ICVMC - Reply message - From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] Dead ewe, coyotes? or something else Date: Thu, Jun 6, 2013 4:35 pm Michael, in 2008 I had a cougar AND a pack of coyotes kill and eat five 90-lb ram lambs in one night. All that was left when I found them the next morning were rib cages, five stomachs (drug away from the carcasses), and a few testicles. The cat had gone over the fence; the coyotes dug under. During the two months that I waited to get a couple of guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees/Anatolian crosses), I lived under siege and patrolled the pastures a couple of times every night with a shotgun. The cat came back two weeks later (apparently that is their regular revisiting interval) and killed one of my ewe lambs. I interrupted her at 2AM and watched her jump a 6-ft chainlink fence. She didn't climb up it; she jumped it. I had 4-ft field fencing around all of my paddocks. It stopped nothing until I ran a strand of electric wire along the top. I also put railroad ties along the bottom, inside the fence to discourage digging. And during that time, I also locked the sheep behind bars at night; every opening to their sheds had hog panel wired across it. The minute the guardian dogs arrived, the terror stopped. I've slept well every night since them. Because you live in a populated neighborhood, LGDs can create problems with their barking, so that may not be an option for you, although you mentioned a dog sleeping with the sheep. Perhaps get another dog or a better dog? If the dog makes its presence known, generally the predators will stay away because the risk of their being injured is too great. I know how if feels to discover the remains of your flock without having heard a peep in the night. I'm sorry that happened to you. Carol At 11:17 PM 6/4/2013, you wrote: Or, was it the contents of her stomach after being killed, and then she was dragged? It was a rather large amount, and difficult for me to imagine any of the animals having that much come out at once, normally. Again, there appeared to be no blood on it at all. Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] farming on crutches?
They also make metal cleats for crutches for people in the Colorado ski country that flip up and down if you have any slippery or hilly ground Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote: Carol, You could go to a surgical supply company and ask to see their catalog. As for how to use it on uneven ground, you would pick up the walker and advance it one step. Then put your weight on it and take a step forward using it as a brace to keep weight off your bad leg. Then lift it again and place it further forward. You do not have to use the wheels at all on uneven ground. I think the back legs (which do not have wheels) will brace the walker on uneven surfaces so that the wheels do not accidently roll when you don't want them to. You may also be able to fashion spring clips along the sides of the walker frame to hold a couple of small buckets for grain or dog food, that you could clip on to these areas. Mary At 08:09 PM 8/1/2012, you wrote: Makes sense, I could definitely get the dog food out, and if the walker were narrow, I could get it into the chicken coop. The basket is a great idea! But how do you move a walker across uneven pasture? Do they make a version with BIG wheels? I think my Mom has a walker and I can experiment with it and see how it goes. Thanks! Carol At 06:20 PM 8/1/2012, you wrote: Carol, Peggy is right. With crutches, you must constantly have both hands engaged to hold up the crutches and walk on them. However a walker with wheels and a little basked on front is much better. You can use your hands to help advance the walker, and then just set it down. It will stand up by itself, and you can lean against it somewhat while doing stuff with both your hands. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Can we trim horns? (Follow up)
A trained and experienced dog with a equally trained and experienced human is a great combination!!! Until the finances, training and experience are in place some 4 way in a 1and 1/2 gallon bucket with a familiar shepherds call can bring a flock of sheep in as long as they are in ear shot. While not nearly as impressive as a great dog- human team it works on a budget of limited time and money. Dave Nancy Johnson imgr8a...@comcast.net wrote: I am very glad to hear you succeeded in your catch quest. I have a small farm, only 22 sheep at the moment, they all know their names and come running when I call, but after I catch the first one, the others are wise and won't be caught. I feel compelled to tell you about a recent trip I took and what I learned. I have just returned from a trip to Mary Swindell's farm in Illinois, where I learned more in the two hours she spent with me, than I have learned on my own since I got my first lamb in 2005. When it comes to catching lambs and sheep, I have been there and done that. I have chased, roped, grabbed, jumped and dove to try and catch sheep. There is a much less stressful way for both shepherd and sheep Please read the article Mary wrote in the BBSAI newsletter that just came out. She explains how to get your sheep into a pen without a herding dog and I know for a fact that this method will work if you work it. You need to work it calmly and with patience. A herding dog can make your life as stress free as it could get with sheep. I have attended the MD Sheep and Wool festival every May since 2007 and I have been the American and Barbados Blackbelly breed exhibitor at the festival for 3 years now and I have yet to attend a live herding demonstration. At Mary's farm I witnessed what my life could be like with a herding dog. Let me tell you, I was absolutely amazed at how Mary and Katie (border collie) work together. Together, they rounded up Mary's some 20-25 rams into a small area at one end of an existing large paddock and their presence allowed Mary to show me her individual rams for some 10-15 minutes. Afterwards, we went to the nursing ewes and weaned lambs who were out in a very large paddock. Together, within 3 minutes, they brought all of the sheep into a smaller area for us to see and again, they hung in one section of the area for Mary to show them to us. As soon as we got back into our truck, my husband said to me so, when are we getting a border collie? It's a very good idea. I'm sure that I will need lots of training, but my thoughts as I begin my breeding business, I will definitely need a herding dog in the future!. Food for thought for even the smallest farm. On Jul 6, 2012, at 11:10 PM, atwoo...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/23/2012 3:03:00 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info writes: Can we trim horns? We just want to thank everyone who sent suggestions on how to trim our little weather's horns. We just finished the job recently due to trouble catching him. We tried initially to snag him alone in the shed, but he bounded through the gate and was gone for another 3 weeks LOL. We bought a kibble concoction used by 4-H-er's to calm show sheep (has magnesium in it) and fed that 3 days prior to our next attempt. We got all of them in the shed this time, caught the one to be doctored and let the others out. At least that was the plan...one of the healthy other two bolted out but the last one refused, showing me his determination to protect his brother. Once satisfied we weren't hurting him, the last one went out also. So our little guy got pinned down, a blinder cloth over the eyes, a thorough hand de-shedding and brushing, and the small girth horns trimmed easily with branch cutters without bleeding. Our little guy is eating again, putting on weight and very happy with himself. Again, thanks for all the help! The Atwoods, Placerville, CA ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Rejected lambs
Great post Mary! If I may, I would make two additional suggestions...use a finger nail file with a diamond surface I'd you need to adjust the teeth ( dentists use diamond surface burrs to fringe on teeth because they are more comfortable for the patient and tooth ) and a quick , easy and effective stanchion pivot is a single good size wood screw . Dave Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu wrote: Sandy, Yes, I strongly suggest a stanchion gate on the front side of your lamb pen. Put the mother's head through it (sticking ouward through the stanchion into the hallway outside the pen). Place a tub of nice dry hay and a bucket of water just under her head so she can always eat and drink. The stanchion bars should be tight enough so that she cannot pull her head out, but she should be able to move her head upwards and downwards to eat, drink, and (if needed) change to a lying down position. You can leave her in there from a few days to as long a 2 weeks! Talk to her sweetly and softly when you're checking on her, and make sure she can always reach her hay and water. If you want to feed her a handful of grain once per day that is fine, but don't worry about the other things (minerals, salt) during this period. Pretty much just leave her alone and quiet. Keep a watch on whether the lambs are getting milk from her. She will try to kick them at first with her back legs, and they may be discouraged at first. You may want to feed each lamb a bottle dose of colostrum right away to make sure they at least get that. Part of getting her to accept her lambs is that as she feeds them, they will begin to smell like her as her milk penetrates them. One reason she may be rejecting them (other than the fact that she is young) is that her teats may be tender or sore. Be sure to check them, and to milk both sides to be sure there is good milk, and no signs of mastitis, sores, or infections that could be causing her pain. Another thing to look out for is the teeth of these lambs. Particularly if she is rejecting the ram lamb, be sure to check his teeth for overly sharp or pointed front teeth. I have never done this, but I have heard from an old-time breeder friend that sometimes if a lamb's teeth are overly sharp, and if he is an aggressive nurser, it hurts the mother's teats. So this man says you can hold the lamb and gently file down the top edges of his front teeth with a small file. As for the ewe, do not be discouraged with her if she seems mad or depressed. She must get with the routine to save the lives of her lambs. Don't let her out of the stanchion unless her lambs are fully nursing and she is not doing anything to show anxiety or aggression to them. This may take 3 - 5 days. Or it may take 7 - 10 days. Or 12 - 14 days. Don't feel sorry for her and let her out too soon. More time, rather than less time, is better. Provide fresh bedding under where she is standing, so that she has a clean place to lie down if she chooses. Then after you finally do release her from the stanchion and exchange it for a normal pen front side, be sure to keep her and the lambs in there for a few more days to make sure she has really bonded with them and is dedicated to accepting them. Bottle feeding lambs to weaning is a huge task, and I always want to avoid that choice if possible. The stanchion gate has worked for me many times, turning psycho mothers into dedicated moms who support and nurse their lambs fully, up to weaning age. I have a handbuilt stanchion gate (made from the Midwest Plans blueprints), but you can also get some very nice ones through Sydell or D-S Livestock. If I can find the photo of my handmade stanchion gate, I'll send it to you. Mary Swindell At 06:52 AM 5/11/2012, you wrote: Hi all: I just had my second ewe lamb last night. She had twins, a ram and a ewe between 2:45 and 3:45 AM. When the first one (the ram) was born she began to clean him off, but once he moved she began butting him into the wall. Fortunately I was there to rescue him. She did a little better with the ewe, but not much. This is her first lambing. I have been able to hold her and let the lambs nurse several times. Is there anything I can do to help her bond with her babies? She is not nickering to them at all. Her twin sister who lambed Wednesday, and also had twins, has been talking to the babies, and they have been trying to get in with her. Her sister is a great mom. I was wondering about constructing some sort of a stanchion ( I know they make something like that) to make it easier to restrain her while they nurse. Could she be left in something like that for some extended periods of time so the babies could be with her, without her being able to hurt them? If so, is she apt to let them nurse without the necessity of my being there every time? These are my first sheep, and any advice would be welcome. Thank you. Sandy Hession
Re: [Blackbelly] lamb disappeared
I've had what most likely was a coyote or coyotes take a Turkey weighing 15 to 20 lbs from my place. Not with fencing as tight as yours. Jerry blueberryf...@bellsouth.net wrote: A 2 day old ABB lamb, one of a twin pair, has disappeared. There is no sign of intruders, no hair, no bones, no evidence. We do have coyotes, hawks, owls, and buzzards here, but no panthers and no eagles nearby, This lamb was in a small flock in a 2 acre paddock completely enclosed with a good 4 foot hog wire fence. Our guard dog was with the main flock in another pasture. I'm guessing the lamb weighed about 3 lbs, could be a little less; it was the smaller of the twins. Have any of you had that experience? Do you know what manner of critter can either totally consume such a lamb or remove it out of the paddock without a trace? Thanks for your help, Jerry Kirby Windmill Farms LLC Picayune, Mississippi ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Tired of losing sheep to coyotes
Llamas have worked well for me I have three classic hair llamas so I don't have to shear them and have enjoyed watching them chase coyotes off of my property on two occasions. They can be very inexpensive if not free, easy keepers and mine love to eat fruit left overs from my hand. Dave stewart s2k...@gmail.com wrote: to all, can anyone suggest the best way to protect my sheep from coyotes? i work the late shift and the last two morning when i get home i find a dead sheep. i have field fence as a barrier. spent a few hours thursday making certain no holes or spots the coyotes might squeeze through. i have three donkeys. (useless) -free to a good home. any suggestions is much appreciated. stewart ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbelly Economics
John, I have sheep, chickens, mini Hereford cattle, full size cattle( one that had twins a week ago) and llamas to guard the sheep and have never realized a financial profit. I rest easy knowing the quality of the food my fine feathered, furry, hairy and woolen friends provide along with the companionship almost never found in my fellow humans profits me more in the short term than profit$ can. The long term benifits I'm counting on? better health due to quality food, low blood pressure due to the therapeutic benefits of spending time off the couch and in the animal's company . In short if you are looking for profit$ animals on anything other than a very large scale may not be the be$t choice but there's still nothing like cuddling a little Lamb, watching one be born or having a week old calf run across the pasture to your side for nothing more than a scratch on her head. FWIW Dave Double J Farms doublejfa...@wildblue.net wrote: At what point (herd size - lamb production) will these critters turn a profit or at least pay for themselves? Last year was the first year in ten that sales exceeded direct input cost, but not by much. I figured direct input costs as pasture management (tractor, lime, fertilizer, seed), grain, hay, minerals/salt, vet/medications. It does not count my labor or capital improvements. The average sale price per sheep was $100, average direct input per sheep was $65, input per lamb born was $85. The flock averaged 21 animals over the year. I sort of understand the economies of scale idea (at least to the extent a biologist can) but was wondering if there was some breakeven point? If I add much more to the flock size, costs for grain (which has gone out of sight already), hay, etc. will go way up because of limited pasture. Thoughts? John Carlton Double J Farms ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Polled Barbados Blackbelly Rams for Sale
HI Liz. Just wanted to see how the little girls are doing now and to report Miracle (their momma) called at the man gate a couple times after you guys left and went back to eating and has been fine ever since. By the way you gave me far too much credit on your blog for my photo skill. You may go ahead and use the rest of the photos I sent of the girls if you would like. It looks like we are going to be able to get two miniture Herefords (an extreemly gentile bull and an already bread cow to calf in June or so) in a couple weeks. Birth weight on these calfs is between 35 and 50 lbs...should be realy cute. Dave - Original Message - From: Liz Radi lizr...@skybeam.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Polled Barbados Blackbelly Rams for Sale What does QR mean? Liz Radi idar alpacas and nubians Nunn Colorado 970-897-2580 From: The Wintermutes winterm...@earthlink.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Polled Barbados Blackbelly Rams for Sale Hello Everybody! Every year I am contacted by people wanting rams for breeding early in the year. Unfortunately I only sell rams in October, November, and December. I also typically only sell mature proven rams. This year I have had a very nice crop of ram lambs. I in fact have more nice ram lambs than I can use. So for the first time I will have ram lambs for sale in the next few months. Most of these ram lambs will be QR at codon 171 and are 7+ months old. Back to the mature rams. I have four 2.5 year old polled Barbados Blackbelly rams for sale this Fall. I have 2 rams that have been tested RR at codon 171 for scrapie resistance. These are just average sized and average parasite resistant rams. They are not registered with the BBSAI. They are ready for sale. One of the two rams is very friendly (begs to be petted). The other is easily managed (not crazy) and might eat grain out of your hand but does not want to be touched. I will have 1 ram that is either QK or QR at codon 171 for sale. He is also friendly and enjoys being petted and hand fed treats. He is average to above average in size. He has parasite resistance. I will have a ram that does not have scapie resistance and has been tested QQ at codon 171 for sale. I am heart broken that he did not test favorably for scrapie resistance. THIS RAM IS IMPRESSIVE!! He is a big and tall fully marked hair coat ram. He made beautiful lambs this year and I am breeding him again this fall before selling him. He is easily managed and can be called from across the field to come to a bucket. He does not want to be touched but can be held to check eyes and such. He has a nice temperament. He has also shown very good parasite resistance. If this ram had scrapie resistance he would never have come up for sale. This is the highest quality ram. I am going to re-evaluate my 1.5 year old rams soon and will put some of them up for sale as well. Some information about my farm. I typically have over 300 lambs born per year. This year I downsized and only had 200 lambs born last spring. The only ram lambs kept for observation are those that are in the top 10% by weight of the entire lamb crop raised on pasture. We then take this 10% and see who gets kicked off the island. To prevent inbreeding I turn over my rams quickly. Most of my rams only get to breed one time before being replaced by a younger survivor ram. I am heavily involved in expanding bloodlines and keeping inbreeding to a minimum. I generate Wright's coefficients of inbreeding on every sheep and their prodigy on the farm. Extensive computer programs are used to determine breeding strategies for best results. We are currently using 20 different sires in our breeding pens for 2011 lambs. Let me know if you need a ram. Mark Wintermute ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] dog training questions
With dogs, children, horses,etc...it is all the same...we get more of the behavior that is rewarded. For me I almost always find myself to be my worst enemy. Dave KATHI SEAMAN hot4d...@earthlink.net wrote: The stay is simply a training issue. Dogs really aren't stubborn they just do what is in their best interest at the time. Can she do a 10 minute down stay away from sheep? If she can not then there is no way you will get one when sheep are involved. She is just doing what she thinks is right. We need to explain to them that what they think is correct isn't always the correct thing! :-) I also have BC and one of the hardest things to teach them is to do NOTHING. Every time she is allowed to leave her stay and actually gets to round up the ewes she is being accidently rewarded for breaking the stay. In her mind stay means hang out a little while until she feels like going and getting the sheep then she is rewarded for it, why would she stay there? (Beating her wouldn't be a good reason, her desire to work sheep will more than likely over ride any correct you could give and just make her afraid of you.) As far as not getting a down in the pasture, it's the same thing. Work your downs away from the sheep then when that is PERFECT, start working the sheep in a small area so is you ask her to down you can make it happen. By allowing herd to continue bringing you she after you have told her to down she is again getting rewarded for NOT doing as she is asked. It sounds like you have a couple of really nice dogs there. It's hard to stop and train when you have a job to get done but if you want it to get better you must. Juts my .02 Kathi -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info] On Behalf Of Crystal Wolf Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:47 AM To: Blackbelly digest Subject: [Blackbelly] dog training questions What is a reasonable amount of time to ask a working dog to down and stay? Sometimes, I want to put my dog on a down/stay and go off to do something that may take 10 minutes or so. Tarra is a 5 and half year old Border Collie who has a mind of her own and can be quite stubborn. When I put her on down/stay, Tarra will stay for awhile and then the next thing I know she has gone out to the big pasture to round up the ewes. When I tell her to down in the pasture, she ignores me and keeps bringing the sheep in. She knows that when we go do the evening feeding and watering that the ewes will be brought in from the big pasture to be secured for the night. When we got Tarra, I did not have sheep and she was 2 years old before I got the sheep, so initially Tarra was a pet and we played with the frisbee and such. I have to limit playing with toys because she gets obsessed and would rather play than work. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Update on bottle babies Day 2
Tom, thanks for the update I have wondered about your babies throughout the day. Dave Tom Quinn cars1...@yahoo.com wrote: I want to thank everyone for the quick and helpful responses. I was so shocked--went by the sheep pen at 5:30 yesterday evening and there they were! The 2 little guys are doing great as of now. I held them last night and fed them whenever they woke up. We were able to get a little colostrum from the ewe today, so that was a good thing. Will probably start colostrum replacer tomorrow. Still no milk from the ewe. They have gained strength all through today, and I will sleep with them again tonight. I will keep the group updated, and again thanks for the help Tom ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] More ram lambs than ewe lambs
Our wolf sheep all had twins a ram and a ewe with the ewes all being born first...our hair sheep had seven lambs five rams and two ewes. Dave Curtis Yeschke cyesc...@peoplepc.com wrote: I'm in southwest Texas and had about two ewe lambs compared to the 10 plus ram lambs this past winter. I just figured that my ram was throwing more y chromosomes than x. Interesting idea about the drought...got me kinda curious. Curtis ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Help: Need info on bottle feeding
Tom, are you sure she does not have any milk? We had a ewe that bagged up, had her twins but would not let them nurse. IT turns out it must have hurt her when the lambs tried to nurse to the point she would walk away. What I did is hold her against the wall in the jug while helping the lambs to nurse every two hours around the clock. She finally started letting the lambs nurse willingly after two days. My suggestion would be don't give up on getting them to nurse untill you are sure she has no milk. If she bagged up my guess is she has milk. As far as quantities for bottle feeding there is a ton of info if you Google bottle feeding lambs. I am not a real experianced shepherd but all the research I did when we were going through our ordeal I formed the opinion that if a ewe did not violently reject a Lamb chances are she could let them nurse if she has the milk. Dave Tom Quinn cars1...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi All One of our young ewes just had twins. She is not accepting them and seems to have no milk I just cleaned them up and bottle fed them once with Advance all species formula--thats all I could find right now. I need suggestions bad! How often to feed? How much per feeding? How long? This is our first crop of lambs Thanks Tom Quinn ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] New Here!
Hi Krystal, We have had sheep for only two years and this forum has been invaluable as we had NO previous AG expetiance and moved to the country from the suburbs of Denver! I would also suggest if I may a couple things we have found very helpful to invaluable as well. A basic how to book on raising sheep by Sue Weaver. A very helpful person in a close country town who has, among other helps, let us look on as she assisted one of her ewes deliver lambs. We have wool sheep, Katahdin hair sheep, black belly and are soon to get some Barbados. From my comparitive limited experiance my observations are as follows. Our woolies are the most friendly, the katahdins have been extreemly pampered and treated like a member of the family we bought them from and are the next friendly and the BBC are the least frienbly. All that being said as a general rule I have found with cows, chickens, geese, cats, dogs, horses, etc you will get exactly what you put into them. There is no replacement for time spent with the animals and as much knowledge as you can get your hands on to know what the behavioral characteristics you should expect. We have not put any of our hair sheep n the freezer yet so Ivan not speak to any difference in the taste of the meat but our wool sheep were the best Lamb I have ever had and we feed them natural grass and alfalfa. We get about 65 to 70 lbs of packaged meat with the wool sheep and by the looks of the size difference of our hair sheep, we will not get close to that. My last thought would be very sure what you are looking and buy accordingly. Dave Tom and Krystal Beers twohun...@hotmail.com wrote: Thank you for the welcome, Nancy and Beth! I'm just glad I finally figured out to post on the list, being slightly computer challenged! Moderator - thank you for your help! So, it sounds like the short answer about flightiness is... it all depends. LOL At least it doesn't sound like you are saying No, newbies stay away from AB! That's encouraging! We only have so much pasture, which is native meadows, not improved, so we aren't even sure how many animals it will hold. We need to start very small and grow as we see the lands ability. In which case, we are more likely to be fairly hands-on - watching, learning, handling. We tend to be that way with our animals anyhow. With the use of treats, I can see our sheep being on the calmer side, not too much either direction. We'd be happy with that! It's a great idea to visit various hair breed flocks. Thank you for the invite, oh, if only! I just don't see it as a possibility for us, though. We'll have to choose the best we can with the help of knowledgeable people who have them, and go from there. I really hope more of you good folks chime in on this. ;) Yes, every step is quite an adventure! We will be near the town of Republic. If anyone cares to read about it, visit our blog- http://journeyintothecountry.blogspot.com/ Have a lovely day! Krystal Beers WA _ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendarocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] treats for taming
Liz, give me a call. Dave 303-929-7677 Liz Radi lizr...@skybeam.com wrote: Personally, I would be very concerned about feeding herbivores anything with animal by products in it. It has caused troubles in the past. Now, what I give my goats is salted peanuts in the shell. They love them for a treat. (Still looking for American Blackbelly sheep, have not found a source yet.) Liz Radi idar alpacas and nubians 100% ARI and homegrown Nunn Colorado 970-897-2580 http://idaralpaca.blogspot.com ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Sheepdog Trainer near Denver
Thank you very much Tom Ill give him a call. Dave - Original Message - From: Tom Quinn cars1...@yahoo.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:45 AM Subject: [Blackbelly] Sheepdog Trainer near Denver Dave: Cappy Pruett is located in Ft Morgan. I have attended several of his clinics www.cappypruett.com Ton Quinn ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Possible temporary fences for herding?
Tom, have you considered starting the training process with ducks? This Is what most dog training books digest. Dave Tom Quinn cars1...@yahoo.com wrote: I have just finished a new corral for my sheep. Next I plan to build a training pen to work the Border Collies. Until I get the permanent pen finished, I wonder if anyone has any experience with temporary fencing for this purpose? I was thinking about something like electrified net with step in posts; size maybe 30 x 50 or bigger. I would appreciate comments Tom Quinn ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Training pen
Carla, does your boyfriend know anyone. In the Denver Colorado area who trains Austrailan sheep dogs...or any one on the list for that material? I have a great one year old who IA just itching to heard but I would like to start her correctly. Carla Amonson chicki...@yahoo.com wrote: Not that I an an expert in the area, and this is only my opinion, but that does not sound good to me. My boyfriend trains collies on a semi-professional basis and never uses a pen to train any dogs, they are always started in a 3 acre pasture. If you have a dog that runs the sheep I to the fence and they get caugt in it...and they will do that, especially young ones. Anyhow, I would recommend that you do some research and find a reputable trainer in your area and take some lessons or at the very least, there are some good books and videos out there on training collies. Anyhow, 30 x 50 would be way too small to train anything, a round pen is 60' diameter and that is too small. It is not even enough room for a dog to get around the sheep. Another thought, that dog goes against the fence once and gets bumped into it, you will never get them to go against any fence again, and that is something that you need a dog to do. Remember, just my opinion. Carla Amonson Sent from my iPhone ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Shepherds tactics
In a discussion this morning some one told me they had heard that a tactic used by shepherds with lambs that continuously ran off was to break a leg and carry the lamb so the lamb could not/would not run away for the period of time the leg was healing. During the healing time the shepherd would carry the lamb on his shoulders thus creating in the lamb a dependence/fondness on the shepherd. Let me be clear, I am not condoning this in the least simply interested to know if any one has ever heard of this tactic being used by any one tending sheep. TIA, Dave ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] New to group
Hello Liz, Welcome to the forum, I am also relatively new to the group and have been helped greatly by many here. Where is Nunn Colorado? I live in Byers Colorado which is 25 miles east of E-470 off of I-70. Dave - Original Message - From: Liz Radi lizr...@skybeam.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2010 6:24 AM Subject: [Blackbelly] New to group Hi y'all, Nunn Colorado, to be ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Lame Ram
It could also be as simple as his momma steped on his hoof I had that happen ( as far as I could tell) and the Lamb was fine in about five days. Dave GARLAND STAMPER gstamper97...@msn.com wrote: Tom, Check his hoof...are there an breaks or tears?? How about between his toes?? Sometimes mud gets packed in there and blocks the glands in between toes. If his legs structures are ok...maybe he just pulled muscles or tendons?? Let us know if you figure it out. Beth in OR -- My Ram came up lame a couple of weeks ago. He is not putting any weight on his left rear hoof. I have manipulated all the joints and muscles, and nothing seems to cause him any pain. Otherwise, he is young and healthy, and eats well. Any Ideas? Tom quinn ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Shepherd's crook
Great advice and tips Michael, thanks for the detalied input. I have a perfect piece of plywood that will work for your board idea. Dave - Original Message - From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Shepherd's crook Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:59:54 -0700 From: Dave Andrus I am looking for a shepherd's staff Dave, I made a couple of crooks out of 1/2 ID electrical conduit, My fave tool for cornering and safely subduing wild sheep in a small pen is a 4x8' sheet if thin plywood with cheap hardware-store metal handles on it, ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] shepherds Staff
I am looking for a shepherd's staff that is a good quality, long lasting and highly functional (the real thing, not a decoration) and would appreciate any and all input on where to find good ones, what I should expect to pay, any suggestions for sheep/handling related to a staff/crook, or generaly thing or techniques any one uses with good success to sort and controll lambs/sheep. If the $5.00 ones are as good as the $40.00 ones thats great, I don't want to hurt my out door friends just get them where I need them to be.If one is needed for sheep and onother for lambs etc. I would very much appreciate all sugestions. TIA, Dave ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots
Julian My primary concern is any negative effect on the lams or ewes because of the ewes getting the shot too close to laming time. Do you know if there can be bad effects to the lams/ewes or just the potential of the lams not getting the full effect? Thanks, Dave - Original Message - From: Julian Hale jbh...@comcast.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots At 05:39 PM 1/23/2010, you wrote: My ewes are going to start to lamb in about 30 days is it too late to give them CDT shots? TIA, Dave Between 21 and 28 days before lambing would be the most effective time to do this. It takes 21 days from the shot to achieve full immune response, that's why vaccines say to wait 21-28 days between doses. Julian ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots
Another question on top of my other question...Of those who give CDT shots when do you give them to ewes and lambs? I have heard two different scenarios 1) give the shot to the ewe 4 to 6 wks before lambs. I don't know if the lamb should also have the shot with this scenario 2) give the shots to the ewe before breeding then the lamb within 24 hrs after birth. Any input will be appreciated. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Andrus andruscompan...@netecin.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots Julian My primary concern is any negative effect on the lams or ewes because of the ewes getting the shot too close to laming time. Do you know if there can be bad effects to the lams/ewes or just the potential of the lams not getting the full effect? Thanks, Dave - Original Message - From: Julian Hale jbh...@comcast.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots At 05:39 PM 1/23/2010, you wrote: My ewes are going to start to lamb in about 30 days is it too late to give them CDT shots? TIA, Dave Between 21 and 28 days before lambing would be the most effective time to do this. It takes 21 days from the shot to achieve full immune response, that's why vaccines say to wait 21-28 days between doses. Julian ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] CD/T Shots
Mary, Where do you give the injection? Dave - Original Message - From: Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] CD/T Shots You can also give CD/T shots to the lambs after they are born, instead of giving the shots to their mothers. I give my new lambs two CD/T shots. The first at 2 weeks old, and the second at 4 weeks old. I use the Bar-Vac brand and give 2 CCs subcutaneously per lamb each time. I do not vaccinate my adult ewes prior to lambing. Mary Swindell At 05:01 PM 1/24/2010, you wrote: Message: 1 Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2010 18:39:18 -0700 From: Dave Andrus andruscompan...@netecin.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots Message-ID: 7de90efdb2214ca6af860b0537a74...@sharolyn Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response My ewes are going to start to lamb in about 30 days is it too late to give them CDT shots? TIA, Dave ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] CDT
I am very much a novice agrarian of only three years and have much to learn and have no problem taking correction or suggestions from any one but I believe I am starting to see a pattern with many of the vaccinations and allot of the miscellaneous supplements I see advertised with sheep, cattle, horses, etc. Please correct me if I am in error or any one has a different experience. It seems to me that many issues come from mixing and matching and even feed lot or commercial type environments. I know from many years in my regular profession that much of what is published as the latest and greatest is done so to make money. Am I connecting these errantly or am I seeing what those who have had many more years dealing with sheep, etc already know? Respectfully, Dave - Original Message - From: Curtis Yeschke cyesc...@peoplepc.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 4:33 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] CDT How about this: I didn't even know what CDT was. Needless to say, that's one shot they don't get. I use a syringe as a drench, minus the needle, for ivomac, the cheap, off brand. The only shots that I give are antibiotics, that's if they have snotty noses or look off, and B- complex, if I think they need that extra boost of energy to help them pull out of it. So far, I've lost only one sheep to worms, and she was an auction house buy, and one to an unknown illness, again, auction house buy...though there are quite a few losses due to coyotes. I haven't lost any since because they get antibiotics, worker, and B- complex when they are unloaded. Curtis ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Lambing kit on a budget
Ok, my next novice question... I have been reading about putting together a lambing kit...it seems if I purchase everything in the book I could have a couple hundred dollars into it and may only need a small number of those items. At the risk of not being prepared for every possibility what would the vetrans suggest are absolute necessities to have in a lambing kit? Thanks, Dave ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] CDT shots
My ewes are going to start to lamb in about 30 days is it too late to give them CDT shots? TIA, Dave ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram?
Thanks to everyone for all the helpful input!!! I can already see things I have done wrong in trying to treat my ram like a dog instead of a ram. A mistake I will not make again and great tips for a successful future with my little friends. The character traits from one animal to another (blood lines) makes lots of sense and is just like breeding personality traits in cattle. Gentile mom and dad and gentile babies. Thanks again, Dave - Original Message - From: Mary Swindell mswin...@siu.edu To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram? I would like to add my comments concerning the aggressive ram question. First, there is something different about male sheep, whether they are rams or wethers. The boys just seem more curious and outgoing, from the time they are babies on through adulthood. Even my wethers (which I have often kept in large numbers as herding sheep, until they were several years old) have often seemed more curious and friendly than my ewes, and have had charming personalities. The ewes seem to always be more shy, from birth onward. Second, I believe that certain male bloodlines tend to be more aggressive than others. I know the ram that Carol Elkins is talking about, and I also had a son of this ram. Both rams looked alike, and both behaved in similarly aggressive ways. And similarly, I have had rams that are simply sweetie pies. Those boys would come over just to say hello, and they never would try to pull any cheap shots, like a sudden fling of their massive heads in my direction. Like the above mean rams, these sweet rams seem to pass on their gentle nature to their sons too. Regardless of a ram's innate nature, I also believe that it is very important to establish yourself as the boss with a ram early on, and to make sure the animal doesn't forget that. And even if you think your rams are friendly, NEVER turn your back on rams and allow yourself to get distracted doing chores while they are there. Rams are sneaky, and every once in awhile they cannot resist the temptation to charge someone when their back is turned. This is how people have gotten seriously hurt or killed by rams, most often. The important thing to remember is, you must ALWAYS reinforce who is the boss with these guys. If there is any doubt (i.e., a ram seems to be testing you), you will have to step up the responses with that ram. Sometimes it may only take a swat on the bridge of his nose with a fiberglass stock stick. That swat may make him wince and step back (and he might even act hurt or shocked that you would hit him). But you must be prepared to hit him harder than you might want to hit him. I have been told by one old-time rancher that you must be prepared to take a stick as big as a baseball bat in with you, and be prepared to swing it as hard as you would swing a bat. I have never done this, and was always afraid that I would hurt or kill one of my rams if I hit him that hard. But the point this rancher was trying to make was that you must be willing to do this if the situation calls for it. Please keep in mind that I think I have very well-behaved rams. I have never had a ram so aggressive nor crazy that I could not stop him from advancing. That kind of aggression is certainly the exception, not the rule. I typically have about 12 adult rams, living peacefully together in a pasture and causing no problems to each other. When one of my rams is with his ewes for breeding, he does not beat them up or charge them. The ram and his ewes get along peacefully. I have usually removed the rams before lambs are born, but I have also reintroduced a ram to a group of ewes with small nursing lambs, and have not noticed any aggressive behavior from the ram. Over a period of time, if I thought that one of my rams was behaving too aggressively to other rams, or to his ewes, or to little lambs, I would strongly consider getting rid of that ram. Finally, my advice would be that in raising a ram lamb from birth, you should basically ignore them and avoid touching or cuddling them. Continue this arm's length relationship with them as they grow up, and resist all temptation to show verbal or physical closeness with them. Keep them guessing about your attitude, and they will respect you more for it. It is almost impossible to re-establish that respectful distance between you and a ram, if you have coddled him and allowed him to be physically close to you when he was younger. And if you purchase a ram which was bottle fed, you may find that he is dangerously aggressive as he ages, because he was never shown that respectful distance as a baby. In fact, I recommend that you castrate all male bottle-fed lambs, no exceptions. Bottle-fed rams almost always turn out to be aggressively dangerous adult rams. Just my
Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram?
Thanks Carol, I have a few questions and appreciate your observations...they make good sense. *** Carol writes Generally it is a good idea to segregate the rams, keeping them with ram lambs or perhaps a wether. Dave asks.. Is it a good better idea to keep more than one ram (or wether) together rather than keeping only one ram segregated and alone? Will rams fight if they are together with another ram or wether? * Carol writes... The safety of the ewes can be a concern if the ram is aggressive. Dave asks... In your experience what percentage of rams would you estimate are aggressive ** Carol writes... Rams 2 to 2.5 years old often become very aggressive. I'm trying to determine if there is any particular cause. My current theory is that a ram brought up under a more dominant ram tends to not be aggressive. Dave asks... Does this mean the more reliable way to get a gentile ram is to use the above as a technique? I would assume the aggressive rams are the ones people want to get rid of or eat. Carol writes... That is why we urge breeders not to pet or play with ram lambs, despite those lambs being the friendliest. Dave asks... Could the ram lambs being the friendliest just be a lambs manifestation of being more aggressive and only being interpreted by humans as friendliest? - Original Message - From: Carol Elkins celk...@critterhaven.biz To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:46 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] what to do about an aggressive ram? Dave, Generally it is a good idea to segregate the rams, keeping them with ram lambs or perhaps a wether. This allows you to control when your ewes will lamb and to be certain who sired each lamb. The safety of the ewes can be a concern if the ram is aggressive. Rams 2 to 2.5 years old often become very aggressive. I'm trying to determine if there is any particular cause. My current theory is that a ram brought up under a more dominant ram tends to not be aggressive. An only ram will become aggressive to humans because he views them as competition. Any ram that has lost his respect (fear) of a human can become aggressive. That is why we urge breeders not to pet or play with ram lambs, despite those lambs being the friendliest. An aggressive ram will not mellow with age. These are my observations based on conversations with many breeders over many years. Carol At 11:11 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: 1) I was told that it is always a good idea to keep a ram segregated from the flock (except for breeding times) especially during the last part of pregnancy2) Is it common for a two year old ram to get aggressive and settle down as he ages? Carol Elkins Critterhaven--Registered Barbados Blackbelly Hair Sheep (no shear, no dock, no fuss) Pueblo, Colorado http://www.critterhaven.biz ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Aggressive Ram
Michael, Thank you very much for your input, it's great to get others experiences. Dave - Original Message - From: Michael Smith mwsmotorspo...@gmail.com To: blackbelly blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:28 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Aggressive Ram regarding: Message: 3 Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:11:36 -0700 From: Dave Andrus andruscompan...@netecin.net Garland, 1)Are you saying that all rams are not aggressive and some can be kept with the flock all year round. I was told that it is always a good idea to keep a ram segregated from the flock (except for breeding times) especially during the last part of pregnancy. I would love to have a ram that did not need to be segregated. 2) Is it common for a two year old ram to get aggressive and settle down as he ages? Dave Dave, I'm no expert, but I have an aggressive ram named Marley who is coming on 2 years in Feb. He was bottle fed, since his mother rejected him and I also spoiled him when I got him at around 3-4 months. But he was raised with a large group of goats, only, and they treated him horribly--which is why I spent a lot of time with him--now he lives only with sheep. In his case, he has mellowed some: instead of full 10-yard charges with horns blazing, he walks up carefully, but still looks like he wants to test me. I cannot turn my back on him. He now has a posse of two other rams to push around and relate to (our rams are segregated from ewes). I think having the socialization is the key in his case. He's good to keep around because of his size (long legged and large) and decent markings. But he is not aggressive or mean to ewes at all. I've never seen him butt a ewe. I have not had the chance to see him with small lambs. The other two rams; one is not bottle fed--almost 2 years old-- and plenty afraid of humans, even when being a stud in a pasture with ewes, even if they eat from my hand. He's hard to catch when it's vaccination time. The other is Marley's son and he was bottle fed as well, but only after about 3 weeks of being with his mother, and immediately thrown in with the other two rams at around 5 months. At that young age the other rams did not butt him at all. In fact, they just wanted to mount him and fight over ownership of him. In his case, he was not coddled by me. He only wants food from people (so far) and he is 8 months old, well after Marley started exhibiting his aggressiveness. So, I think it is an individual thing. Because of the goat thing and the bottle-feeding thing and some experience with offspring, I would say it's part Nurture and part Nature that causes aggressiveness. -Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies. ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbellies VS Wool sheep
Beth, Thanks for the reply, I looked it up on the internet and it doesn't really seem too difficult if we are just eating it ourselves. A table, few other key items and a winch and it seems that is about it. What do you use to wrap it in? Dave - Original Message - From: GARLAND STAMPER gstamper97...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbellies VS Wool sheep Well, Dave,...hubby, Garland, thought it couldn't be any more difficult than a deer...and the local locker butchers wanted way too much money...and...we wanted the kill to be humane...and Garland is an expert shot. All of those things led to butchering our own and it's worked well for us. I'll let him post about the equip we use. We will be butchering in Jan. Merry Christmas, Beth ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbellies VS Wool sheep
WOW Beth, Your own butchering, how did you get started doing that and what kind of equipment do you need? Dave - Original Message - Dave, Live weight for our jr. rams is between 110 and 120 lbs. The meat yield is about 40 lbs. Since we do all of our own butchering...this is about as large a sheep I want to handle. Beth ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] Welcome Dave
Thanks Tom, How would you (or anyone on the list) compare the meat yield and taste from the woolies to the BB's? Thanks, Dave - Original Message - From: Tom Quinn cars1...@yahoo.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:51 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Welcome Dave Dave: I am pretty new at Blackbellies also. Have 5BB ewes and some misc. wooly lambs. Located in Angel Fire NM, in the Sangre de Cristos, not far from the Colo border. You will find this digest a real help. Lots of info and helpful people. Tom Quinn -Original Message- From: blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info [mailto:blackbelly-boun...@lists.blackbellysheep.info]on Behalf Of blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:01 PM To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Blackbelly Digest, Vol 5, Issue 176 Send Blackbelly mailing list submissions to blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.blackbellysheep.info/listinfo.cgi/blackbelly-blackbelly sheep.info or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to blackbelly-requ...@lists.blackbellysheep.info You can reach the person managing the list at blackbelly-ow...@lists.blackbellysheep.info When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Blackbelly digest... Today's Topics: 1. welcome Dave (Crystal Wolf) 2. Re: welcome Dave (Dave Andrus) 3. Re: welcome Dave (GARLAND STAMPER) 4. Re: welcome Dave (Dave Andrus) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:53:04 -0600 From: Crystal Wolf crystalw...@windstream.net To: Blackbelly digest blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Message-ID: a0c5936c2bb849ac9a12ba3fa0809...@ownerpc Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Dave, welcome to the blackbelly list. Lots of good information is shared here by breeders around the country. Enjoy and Happy holidays. Cathy LeapN' Lambs -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:40:39 -0700 From: Dave Andrus andruscompan...@netecin.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Message-ID: cf5578f3e14c44098c2a4d3f60e18...@sharolyn Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Thanks for the welcome Crystal, I am a self admitted rookie at the agricultural life (three years and not my primary income) but love it and enjoy all my outside friends a bunch.. Dave - Original Message - From: Crystal Wolf crystalw...@windstream.net To: Blackbelly digest blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Dave, welcome to the blackbelly list. Lots of good information is shared here by breeders around the country. Enjoy and Happy holidays. Cathy LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info -- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:02:16 -0800 From: GARLAND STAMPER gstamper97...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Message-ID: col102-ds15c9ecc75b74e2e44ba250f1...@phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hello Dave, Welcome! Lots of info and experienced folks here. Where are you located?? We raise Am. Blackbellies in the high desert of central OR. Beth Sierra Luna Powell Butte, OR -- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 21:11:06 -0700 From: Dave Andrus andruscompan...@netecin.net To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Message-ID: 73c74c8accf04f26b38ea6889f218...@sharolyn Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response Hello Beth,. Thanks for the welcome, I am on the high (about 5350 ft above seal level) plains of Colorado about 45 minutes east of Denver. My primary interest in black bellies is to have hair sheep to either add to my existing flock (of two years) or replace my wool sheep. While I love the five I have now (Miss Priss, Grandma, Two-Two, Bonnie and the feisty but sweet ram Yukon) shearing is a tough job. Freezer lamb is a favorite of ours and taking care of the sheep is a great therapy. Have you raised any other type of sheep? Dave - Original Message - From: GARLAND STAMPER gstamper97...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Hello Dave, Welcome! Lots of info and experienced folks here. Where are you located?? We raise Am. Blackbellies in the high desert
Re: [Blackbelly] Blackbellies VS Wool sheep
Beth, Can you tell me off the top of your head what the average weight of your BBs are at the time you butcher them? Dave - Original Message - From: GARLAND STAMPER gstamper97...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 7:28 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] Blackbellies VS Wool sheep Well, this is a deep subject!! G If you like wooly lamb meat, then you will find the Blackbelly lamb very tasty, mild and tender. If you don't like wooly lamb...then you might like Blackbelly lamb anyway...it doesn't taste gamey at all or however you would describe wool lamb meat. Blackbellies don't have the lanolin which makes wool lamb taste the way it does. As for the yield...there's a huge difference in the growth time to butcher weight. 6 month old wool lambs are ready to butcher; we butcher our Blackbelly rams at 15-18 months and the meat is delicious. In fact, we pulled a cut of BB meat out of the freezer last weekend. (It got lost at the bottom!) Anyway, it was from Nov, 2007!! We made green chili stew with the shoulder and Garland cut the loin into chops and grilled them outside. They were outstandingly delicious. So...it just depends on what is going to work for your situation. We raise our Blackbelly sheep for breeding stock, meat and most of all entertainment. They are a riot. Beth in Powell Butte, OR ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
[Blackbelly] New subscriber
Hello everyone my name is Dave, I am a new subscriber, with five wool sheep and have enjoyed them. We are looking forward to learning more about and obtaining hair sheep in the near future. Dave ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave
Thanks for the welcome Crystal, I am a self admitted rookie at the agricultural life (three years and not my primary income) but love it and enjoy all my outside friends a bunch.. Dave - Original Message - From: Crystal Wolf crystalw...@windstream.net To: Blackbelly digest blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:53 PM Subject: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Dave, welcome to the blackbelly list. Lots of good information is shared here by breeders around the country. Enjoy and Happy holidays. Cathy LeapN' Lambs ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave
Hello Beth,. Thanks for the welcome, I am on the high (about 5350 ft above seal level) plains of Colorado about 45 minutes east of Denver. My primary interest in black bellies is to have hair sheep to either add to my existing flock (of two years) or replace my wool sheep. While I love the five I have now (Miss Priss, Grandma, Two-Two, Bonnie and the feisty but sweet ram Yukon) shearing is a tough job. Freezer lamb is a favorite of ours and taking care of the sheep is a great therapy. Have you raised any other type of sheep? Dave - Original Message - From: GARLAND STAMPER gstamper97...@msn.com To: blackbelly@lists.blackbellysheep.info Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Blackbelly] welcome Dave Hello Dave, Welcome! Lots of info and experienced folks here. Where are you located?? We raise Am. Blackbellies in the high desert of central OR. Beth Sierra Luna Powell Butte, OR ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info ___ This message is from the Blackbelly mailing list Visit the list's homepage at %http://www.blackbellysheep.info
