Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
Hi, Gino Peregrini wrote: On Wed, 2001-11-21 at 20:13, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: Go to sf.net and check out waimea. It is the latest of the new wm's based on blackbox. Nifty new features include direct support for Xrender extensions (anti-aliasing) and 'actions'. Seems interesting if not my cup of tea. I did. It's just a start, of course. I haven't looked at it much yet. But every time I look at another wm, whether a spawn of bb or not, I appreciate bb that much more. I do thank you for the tip. Waimea is at least something to keep an eye on. Blackbox is just fine. It has some very small annoying bugs (mostly focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches around which should be at least inserted into a new Blackbox release. There are some bugs to be fixed also. So a new version with minor fixes would be great even without any major functional extensions. I think that Blackbox development will not switch to warp speed in the near future. Maybe the current developers should consider giving the development to someone else who has enough time to take care of Blackbox. If this will not happen then maybe one of the Blackbox clones in the future will overtake Blackbox either in support or stability or in new functions (while still remaining a minimal window manager). So cheer up my friends we will benefit in either way :-)) Nevertheless if I can help Blackbox in any way, let me know. I am even willing to learn c++ just to be able to take part in some kind of software development. (Hey, who wanna start developing an other bb clone with me?! :-) ) Let Peace be with you, Peter (member of the blackbox fan club)
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
Hi, Fluxbox is only a clone yet. A promising clone, but not far ahead of blackbox. Regards, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a look at fluxbox, it is a very nice blackbox-clone that can be found at fluxbox.sourceforge.net. (Hey, who wanna start developing an other bb clone with me?! :-) ) Let Peace be with you, Peter (member of the blackbox fan club)
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
Peter Szekszardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blackbox is just fine. It has some very small annoying bugs (mostly focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches around which should be at least inserted into a new Blackbox release. I disagree. I do not require any of the patches available, and I'm sure there are other people who do not need them either. Having them stay out of BB is a good thing for me. -Jan -- http://www.netmeister.org http://guinness.cs.stevens-tech.edu/~jschauma/
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
I'll tell you what I want... to get off this mailing list. The few bugs that are in BB bother me... and it's lack of support for the keyboard also bothers me, so I've migrated to Enlightenment. E17 is going to have a window-manager only portion, and it will serve my needs exactly. Now, I've sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe in the body (as it said to do on the homepage) and I am still on the list. Please help me remove myself. Thanks. DC On Thu, Nov22,01 09:32, Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Thu, 2001-11-22 at 09:32, Jan Schaumann wrote: I disagree. I do not require any of the patches available, and I'm sure there are other people who do not need them either. Having them stay out of BB is a good thing for me. Please, let's not get this add it, no don't add it argument/discussion going yet again. It's very safe to say that there are people that want some of the patches to be a part of BB and there are many people that don't want them to be part of BB. So, for those that want them, they are there. Patch them into your copy of BB and compile. For those of us that don't want them, there's BB. Jamin W. Collins -- Derek Cunningham [EMAIL PROTECTED] All men by nature desire to know. -- Aristotle.
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
flamebtw is there anybody doing anything for example with those focusing bugs?/flame
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
Peter Szekszardi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I disagree. I do not require any of the patches available, and I'm sure there are other people who do not need them either. Having them stay out of BB is a good thing for me. Patches that provide additional functions may be considered, but there is no doubt that bugfix patches should be applyed into blacbox. Which ones are those - as I said, I have not encountered any problems that would require me to patch the source. If there are serious bugs and patches are available, then, sure, they should be included. But it's always (as especially seen on this list) the dicussion of Bug vs. Feature. -Jan -- http://www.netmeister.org http://guinness.cs.stevens-tech.edu/~jschauma/
intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
Friends, can someone offer a place to put a bug tracker for blackbox? If not I am considering starting a sourceforge project for it. And yes, if Jeff does not stand up and unless nyz complains I plan to step up and captain the ship. Most of you know me, I have been here a long time. nyz and I have happily traded patches in the past so I doubt he will mind. I share the common belief that blackbox is for small, fast and clean. That blackbox is used as a base for other projects is a complement to its design. I hope to see more such projects. Jeff here is your chance to state you have intentions on finishing the work you started. Of course, patches are always welcome for review (-:
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
Sean, do it! I'm on your side! :-)) -- Laszlo Gerencser PortoLogic Ltd.
Colour problems with KDE + 0.61.1
Hi, I've recently installed and began to use blackbox with KDE, however I have been having problems with colour. When I try to view say, a photograph/picture or any other high resolution graphic it appears 'freyed' or scruffy - as if I am in a lower colour depth. Does anyone know how to fix this?
Re: Colour problems with KDE + 0.61.1
On 22-Nov-2001 shev wrote: Hi, I've recently installed and began to use blackbox with KDE, however I have been having problems with colour. When I try to view say, a photograph/picture or any other high resolution graphic it appears 'freyed' or scruffy - as if I am in a lower colour depth. Does anyone know how to fix this? What bit depth are you running in?
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
There has been some voicings on IRC similar to this. I believe there was a promise of someone hosting CVS and similar amenities to help spurn development, but I am not sure how far they've gotten. (Unfortunately, most of these people unsubscribed from this mailing list long ago.) I hope that we can use these services and steer clear of sourceforge until its future is a little more certain. * Sean 'Shaleh' Perry ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Friends, can someone offer a place to put a bug tracker for blackbox? If not I am considering starting a sourceforge project for it. And yes, if Jeff does not stand up and unless nyz complains I plan to step up and captain the ship. Most of you know me, I have been here a long time. nyz and I have happily traded patches in the past so I doubt he will mind. I share the common belief that blackbox is for small, fast and clean. That blackbox is used as a base for other projects is a complement to its design. I hope to see more such projects. Jeff here is your chance to state you have intentions on finishing the work you started. Of course, patches are always welcome for review (-: -- Copyleft (c) 2001, Scott Moynes msg03880/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Colour problems with KDE + 0.61.1
shev wrote: Hi, I've recently installed and began to use blackbox with KDE, however I have been having problems with colour. When I try to view say, a photograph/picture or any other high resolution graphic it appears 'freyed' or scruffy - as if I am in a lower colour depth. Does anyone know how to fix this? Feature? ;-) -- Laszlo Gerencser PortoLogic Ltd.
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
On 22-Nov-2001 Scott Moynes wrote: There has been some voicings on IRC similar to this. I believe there was a promise of someone hosting CVS and similar amenities to help spurn development, but I am not sure how far they've gotten. (Unfortunately, most of these people unsubscribed from this mailing list long ago.) I hope that we can use these services and steer clear of sourceforge until its future is a little more certain. I know the guys from sourceforge, even if VA went tits up tomorrow they are ok. That said, I am more than willing to let someone else host. CVS is not enough though, I think we really need a bug tracker. And please not bugzilla.
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
Sean 'Shaleh' Perry (shalehperry) writes: On 22-Nov-2001 Scott Moynes wrote: I know the guys from sourceforge, even if VA went tits up tomorrow they are ok. That said, I am more than willing to let someone else host. CVS is not enough though, I think we really need a bug tracker. And please not bugzilla. How about the Savannah project ? Who is hosting the current blackbox site, maybe it could we done there ? -- Best Regards, Michael Landin Hostbaek FreeBSDCluster.dk - an International Community */ PGP-key available upon request /*
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
On 22-Nov-2001 Michael Hostbaek wrote: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry (shalehperry) writes: On 22-Nov-2001 Scott Moynes wrote: I know the guys from sourceforge, even if VA went tits up tomorrow they are ok. That said, I am more than willing to let someone else host. CVS is not enough though, I think we really need a bug tracker. And please not bugzilla. How about the Savannah project ? Who is hosting the current blackbox site, maybe it could we done there ? I was under the impression that was for FSF sanctioned projects only. Or at least GPL'ed ones.
Re: Colour problems with KDE + 0.61.1
I have no idea what my exact colour depth is.. My XF86Config has this: Section Screen Driver Accel Device Primary Card Monitor Primary Monitor DefaultColorDepth 16 SubSection Display Depth 8 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 15 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 16 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 24 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 32 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection Section Screen Driver SVGA Device Primary Card Monitor Primary Monitor DefaultColorDepth 16 SubSection Display Depth 8 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 15 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 16 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 24 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection SubSection Display Depth 32 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection Section Screen Driver VGA16 Device Primary Card Monitor Primary Monitor SubSection Display Depth 4 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection Section Screen Driver VGA2 Device Primary Card Monitor Primary Monitor SubSection Display Depth 1 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection Section Screen Driver fbdev Device Primary Card Monitor Primary Monitor SubSection Display Depth 1 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection Section Screen Driver Mono Device Primary Card Monitor Primary Monitor SubSection Display Depth 1 Modes 1024x768 EndSubSection EndSection When i run KDE without blackbox it is fine, however. I hope this can be of help - Original Message - From: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: shev [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Colour problems with KDE + 0.61.1 On 22-Nov-2001 shev wrote: Hi, I've recently installed and began to use blackbox with KDE, however I have been having problems with colour. When I try to view say, a photograph/picture or any other high resolution graphic it appears 'freyed' or scruffy - as if I am in a lower colour depth. Does anyone know how to fix this? What bit depth are you running in?
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
Sean 'Shaleh' Perry (shalehperry) writes: I was under the impression that was for FSF sanctioned projects only. Or at least GPL'ed ones. Well so *was* sourceforge... ;) But, who is the admin on the official blackbox page ? -- Best Regards, Michael Landin Hostbaek FreeBSDCluster.dk - an International Community */ PGP-key available upon request /*
Re: Colour problems with KDE + 0.61.1
On Thu, Nov 22, 2001 at 02:28:10PM -0600, Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Thu, 2001-11-22 at 14:30, shev wrote: I have no idea what my exact colour depth is.. Check the output of X. If you are running v4.x there should be a log file (/var/log/XFree86.0.log). I find using 'xwininfo' and reading the Depth line a little easier... ;-) Ward
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
On 22-Nov-2001 Michael Hostbaek wrote: Sean 'Shaleh' Perry (shalehperry) writes: I was under the impression that was for FSF sanctioned projects only. Or at least GPL'ed ones. Well so *was* sourceforge... ;) nah, sourceforge was open source, regardless of license. But, who is the admin on the official blackbox page ? Brad, aka nyz the original author.
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
Laszlo Gerencser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan Schaumann wrote: I said, I have not encountered any problems that would require me to patch the source. If there are serious bugs and patches are available, then, sure, they should be included. But it's always (as especially seen on this list) the dicussion of Bug vs. Feature. As I wrote a few weeks (months?) ago, there ARE bugs in bb. The workspace change crash IS a bug. (I hope nobody consider it as a feature). If you don't use slowly redrawing apps and/or don't change workspaces quickly, this may never happen on your system. JFTR: It doesn't occur on my system, no matter how fast I switch desktops or what apps I have running. But there are many people on this list (including myself) who had this kind of chrash, dumping bb core. This is a fact. I don't want to discuss it more, everyone can access the list archive and find details on it. Yes, this is a bug. It needs to be fixed. I don't know if it's a blackbox or bbkeys bug, since I have not followed the discussion. It is clearly a development task to address these problems. Continuous development is a vital point of any kind of software. Agreed. Don't misunderstand me, I do not need additional features, I even do not use patches for bb. But I would like to see at least a minimal development effort to make bb better. (Sorry, I do not have any C++ knowledge. Maybe I'll learn this language in the future.) Well, maybe you should. Open Source always offers you the possibility of scratching your itch. That's the greatest thing about it - on the other hand, nobody can come along and say I can't do it, but I demand others do it[1]. I can't belive that anybody will claim here that the deveolpment of bb is not wanted anymore. We can live with the current (great) release, but I'm sure, everybody would be happy to be able to install a new version. Only if the new version offers features I'm missing or fixes bugs I'm encountering. Why else would I install a new version? Just b/c it's new? I do not mean that BB is perfect and should not be touched again, ever. What I _do_ mean, is that it's tricky to determine the actual bugs and separate them from what people *consider* bugs, b/c they are not used to the way BB works, or b/c they have certain expectations towards a windowmanager, that would be better suited for a Desktop Environment. -Jan [1] grossly paraphrasing and not intended as bait -- http://www.netmeister.org http://guinness.cs.stevens-tech.edu/~jschauma/
Re: intent to captain the blackbox ship, seeking comments
Sean 'Shaleh' Perry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we really need a bug tracker. And please not bugzilla. How about gnats? -Jan -- http://www.netmeister.org http://guinness.cs.stevens-tech.edu/~jschauma/
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Peter Szekszardi wrote: [...] focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches What is absolutely horrid about this left-alone state? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Furthermore, I've never been able to reproduce the bb-bbkeys crash on workspace bug. Even after reading through the archives, I'm not entirely sure it is a bug in bb. Blackbox. If this will not happen then maybe one of the Blackbox clones in the future will overtake Blackbox either in support or stability or in new functions (while still remaining a minimal window manager). So Interesting. It seems to me the addition of new functions defeats the tag minimal window manager from bb's current state. ;) --- Dan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG key: www.cs.unc.edu/~chenda/pubkey.gpg.asc
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Laszlo Gerencser wrote: [...] I'm sure, everybody would be happy to be able to install a new version. Sorry, the current version works just fine. Unless there is an earth-shattering bugfix in a future release, I think I'll leave it on hold. --- Dan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG key: www.cs.unc.edu/~chenda/pubkey.gpg.asc
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
On Thu, 2001-11-22 at 21:08, Daniel T. Chen wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Peter Szekszardi wrote: [...] focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches Furthermore, I've never been able to reproduce the bb-bbkeys crash on workspace bug. Even after reading through the archives, I'm not entirely sure it is a bug in bb. On a somewhat similiar note, I've patched Blackbox with the mouse wheel patch. I would say that this patch allow for significantly faster cycling of workspaces, and I have not been able to crash BB by cycling workspaces regardless of the system load or the applications running at the time. Some may consider this an apples and oranges comparison. However, it does illustrate that BB workspaces can be changed extremely rapidly and reliably (at least in my experience). So, IMHO this is not a bug with BB, but rather with how BB Keys and BB are interoperating. Granted, BB shouldn't crash regardless, but that's only part of the problem. Jamin W. Collins -- Life is the art of drawing without an eraser. - John Gardner
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
Interesting. It seems to me the addition of new functions defeats the tag minimal window manager from bb's current state. ;) One example I can think of is removal of the numlock feature, which will probably add more to usability than to diskspace :) Jerrold.
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
* Daniel T. Chen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Peter Szekszardi wrote: [...] focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches What is absolutely horrid about this left-alone state? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, in some sense, it is broken. One of the claimed goals of blackbox has always been standard compliance. There's a new windowmanager spec that hasn't been completely implemented yet if only for the reason that most of us remembered the current developers promising it. Hopefully, we will get this straightened out and we can get to work fixing blackbox. -- Copyleft (c) 2001, Scott Moynes msg03896/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Scott Moynes wrote: Well, in some sense, it is broken. One of the claimed goals of blackbox has always been standard compliance. There's a new windowmanager spec that hasn't been completely implemented yet if only for the reason that most of us remembered the current developers promising it. I stand/sit corrected then. --- Dan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG key: www.cs.unc.edu/~chenda/pubkey.gpg.asc
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
* Daniel T. Chen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I stand/sit corrected then. Well, it's not actually that straight forward.:) I am not even certain how much is not implemented or would have to change for blackbox to be compliant. Also, I am not even sure how many programs use the standard or what we are missing. I guess I have a little reading to do. But, I basically agree with your sentiment. That blackbox does what it aims to do, manage windows, and does it pretty well, and doesn't have grandiose plans to be YOUR ONE STOP SHOPPING FOR ALL COMPUTING NEEDS! scott -- Copyleft (c) 2001, Scott Moynes msg03898/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Daniel T. Chen wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Peter Szekszardi wrote: [...] focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches What is absolutely horrid about this left-alone state? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Furthermore, I've never been able to reproduce the bb-bbkeys crash on workspace bug. Even after reading through the archives, I'm not entirely sure it is a bug in bb. Blackbox dies with a signal 11. That's a segfault. That means it's a bug in Blackbox. Blackbox. If this will not happen then maybe one of the Blackbox clones in the future will overtake Blackbox either in support or stability or in new functions (while still remaining a minimal window manager). So Interesting. It seems to me the addition of new functions defeats the tag minimal window manager from bb's current state. ;) Minimalism doesnt have to be useless. Not all functions can be dismissed so easily. --- Dan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] GPG key: www.cs.unc.edu/~chenda/pubkey.gpg.asc xOr - -- I am damn unsatisfied to be killed in this way. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7/fLE8mPQRGtSu14RApljAKCEP4ozsYXLN1ofmddwyLqSUPbxFgCfaFGU 0tjPxFT2Yv4Bipuv7d7arR8= =hjJt -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: waimea, yet another blackbox spawn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 22 Nov 2001, Jamin W. Collins wrote: On Thu, 2001-11-22 at 21:08, Daniel T. Chen wrote: On Thu, 22 Nov 2001, Peter Szekszardi wrote: [...] focus errors), but it's ok. The only problem with Blackbox is one thing: it is in a quite left-alone state. There are a number of patches Furthermore, I've never been able to reproduce the bb-bbkeys crash on workspace bug. Even after reading through the archives, I'm not entirely sure it is a bug in bb. On a somewhat similiar note, I've patched Blackbox with the mouse wheel patch. I would say that this patch allow for significantly faster cycling of workspaces, and I have not been able to crash BB by cycling workspaces regardless of the system load or the applications running at the time. Some may consider this an apples and oranges comparison. However, it does illustrate that BB workspaces can be changed extremely rapidly and reliably (at least in my experience). So, IMHO this is not a bug with BB, but rather with how BB Keys and BB are interoperating. Granted, BB shouldn't crash regardless, but that's only part of the problem. Here's how bbkeys interacts with blackbox for changing workspaces. e.xclient.type = ClientMessage; e.xclient.window = bbtool-getCurrentScreenInfo()-getRootWindow(); e.xclient.message_type = atom; e.xclient.format = 32; e.xclient.data.l[0] = (unsigned long) data; e.xclient.data.l[1] = 0; mask = SubstructureRedirectMask; XSendEvent(bbtool-getXDisplay(), bbtool-getCurrentScreenInfo()-getRootWindow(), False, mask, e); You don't need to know C++, this is a simple event message sent to the window manger, which then switches desktops the same way it does via any other method. This bug seems to be alittle hard to reproduce, but just because it hasn't happened to you does not mean it does not exist. On a further note tho, has this bug occured to anyone using a desktop switching method other than the one provided through bbkeys? (all 2 people out there who don't use it.. :) Jamin W. Collins xOr - -- I am damn unsatisfied to be killed in this way. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7/fPJ8mPQRGtSu14RArbxAKCAS2CKJkvVLKPPNrmjIBYbycdASACeIYLM aUwKK+nUiUZef841gumrGPA= =lKaZ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
