Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama
Dear Brian: Do you think you could give the NTIA and BEAD folk a little advice as to how to go about improving rural american access? On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:33 AM Brian Munyao Longwe wrote: > Thanks for sharing, > > Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking > workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went > back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with > assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene > (formerly Cisco)? > > Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP > Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African > countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs > in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others. > > I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia. > > Ta, > > Brian > > On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS < > libre...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA. >> >> -- Forwarded message - >> From: Jane Coffin >> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama >> To: Garland McCoy >> Cc: Dave Taht , National Broadband Mapping >> Coalition , Bill Woodcock >> >> >> Actually. Bill is one of the IXP masters, but >> >> ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would >> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with >> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used >> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP >> Manager). I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX), >> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham >> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with >> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and >> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding >> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN). I also would note the amazing work >> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering >> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world - >> except for the US. AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum >> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the >> Bangkok Peering forum. One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs >> (Network Operator Groups). The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have >> taken off from there. ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to >> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great >> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with >> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc). >> >> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that >> show over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local >> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local >> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases, >> and how quickly prices drop. >> >> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs. Thank >> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC), >> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for >> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and >> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US. >> >> It takes a village. A well-trained diverse village. >> >> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy >> wrote: >> >>> Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is >>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House ( >>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades >>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any >>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look >>> up Onclave Networks (see link below) >>> >>> https://onclavenetworks.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dave - >>> >>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples. On the US - less >>> so. One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to >>> some folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX, >>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style. >>> >>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in >>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local >>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits >>> transit/transport vs local fabric. >>> >>> Jane >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht wrote: >>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :( I am also curious
Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama
On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:33 AM Brian Munyao Longwe wrote: > Thanks for sharing, > > Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking > workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went > back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with > assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene > (formerly Cisco)? > > No. I knew I liked you for more than one reason! > Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP > Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African > countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs > in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others. > But my bigger question is how to get more IXPs on the radar for the BEAD programs here > > I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia. > > Ta, > > Brian > > On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS < > libre...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > >> I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA. >> >> -- Forwarded message - >> From: Jane Coffin >> Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM >> Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama >> To: Garland McCoy >> Cc: Dave Taht , National Broadband Mapping >> Coalition , Bill Woodcock >> >> >> Actually. Bill is one of the IXP masters, but >> >> ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would >> tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with >> some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used >> those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP >> Manager). I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX), >> Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham >> Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with >> ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and >> Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding >> (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN). I also would note the amazing work >> that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering >> Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world - >> except for the US. AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum >> and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the >> Bangkok Peering forum. One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs >> (Network Operator Groups). The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have >> taken off from there. ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to >> promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great >> initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with >> them and the RIRs (RPKI etc). >> >> Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that >> show over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local >> Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local >> level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases, >> and how quickly prices drop. >> >> Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs. Thank >> goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC), >> ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for >> keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and >> the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US. >> >> It takes a village. A well-trained diverse village. >> >> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy >> wrote: >> >>> Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is >>> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House ( >>> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades >>> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any >>> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look >>> up Onclave Networks (see link below) >>> >>> https://onclavenetworks.com/ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dave - >>> >>> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples. On the US - less >>> so. One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to >>> some folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX, >>> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style. >>> >>> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in >>> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local >>> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits >>> transit/transport vs local fabric. >>> >>> Jane >>> >>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht wrote: >>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :( I am
Re: [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Fwd: [New post] More Mapping Drama
Thanks for sharing, Are you aware that after receiving ISOC training at the INET 99 networking workshop for developing countries in San Jose way back in 1999 - I went back to my (then) home country, Kenya, and built/started KIXP with assistance from Cisco and hands on support from Barry Raveendran Greene (formerly Cisco)? Thereafter and for next 8 odd years as GM for AfrISPA (African ISP Association) I turned up or helped turn up IXPs in about 12 other African countries - mostly funded under a project called “Catalysing Access to ICTs in Africa” funded by UKs DFID, Canada’s IDRC and others. I even did a couple of trips with Bill Woodcock in Africa and Asia. Ta, Brian On Wed, 12 Apr 2023 at 4:28 PM, Dave Taht via LibreQoS < libre...@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > I would like to bring back the IXP concepts in the USA. > > -- Forwarded message - > From: Jane Coffin > Date: Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 10:23 AM > Subject: Re: [New post] More Mapping Drama > To: Garland McCoy > Cc: Dave Taht , National Broadband Mapping Coalition > , Bill Woodcock > > > Actually. Bill is one of the IXP masters, but > > ISOC has done a helluva lot of IXP build around the world, and I would > tip my hat to Michuki Mwangi (ISOC) and Nishal Goburdhan (PCH) along with > some folks at Netnod (Swedish exchange), and INEX (Irish exchange - used > those cats for training and they came up with the brilliant app - IXP > Manager). I also would tag Philip Smith (NSRC and father of BGP and LINX), > Christian O'Flaherty - one of my partners in crime on IXP build, Hisham > Ibrahim (formerly with AfriNIC and now with RIPE NCC), Jan Zorz (was with > ISOC now a v6 evangelist), Karen Rose (formerly with ISOC), Naveed Haq and > Aftab Siddiqui (of ISOC), Brent McIntosh (Grenada), and Bevil Wooding > (formerly with PCH and now with ARIN). I also would note the amazing work > that the IXP Associations have done around the planet, and note the Peering > Forums - PIFs that ISOC with partners like PCH created around the world - > except for the US. AfPIF - the African Peering and Interconnection Forum > and CarPIF - the Caribbean Peering and Interconnection Forum, BKNIX, the > Bangkok Peering forum. One can't talk about IXPs without a nod to NOGs > (Network Operator Groups). The US had the first NOG - NANOG, and they have > taken off from there. ISOC uses NOGs, and PIFs, and IXPs, and the RIRs to > promote Mutually Agreed Norms for Routing Security (MANRS)...great > initiative and I would urge anyone looking at secure routing to chat with > them and the RIRs (RPKI etc). > > Note that ISOC is the only org that has put out multiple studies that show > over time and via snapshots the importance of IXPs to build your local > Internet, increase resilience, allow for redundancy of nets at the local > level, and has tracked how much latency diminishes, performance increases, > and how quickly prices drop. > > Big Telcos in the US nearly killed bottom-up carrier neutral IXPs. Thank > goodness for ISOC, the RIRs (LACNIC, AfriNIC, ARIN, APNIC, and RIPE NCC), > ICANN, IETF to a degree, NSRC, PCH, the NOGs, and the Peering Fora for > keeping network training, the importance of diverse peering ecosystems, and > the IXPs that are making a resurgence in the US. > > It takes a village. A well-trained diverse village. > > On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:51 AM Garland McCoy > wrote: > >> Dave, I am sure Jane would agree that THE global master IXP builder is >> Bill Woodcock and his colleagues at Packet Clearing House ( >> https://www.pch.net/) Bill has been doing this for decades (and decades >> and decades). I have cced him in so you can circle the wagons. If by any >> chance you want SECURE Edges as part of your IXP deployment you should look >> up Onclave Networks (see link below) >> >> https://onclavenetworks.com/ >> >> >> >> On Apr 10, 2023, at 9:40 AM, Jane Coffin >> wrote: >> >> Dave - >> >> On IXPs - I can give you a lot of global examples. On the US - less so. >> One of the founders of SF-MIX is at Connect Humanity and is talking to some >> folks about neutral/bottom-up IXPs - ISOC style, IFX, Euro-IX, Af-IX, >> LAC-IX, and AP-IX style. >> >> ISOC also has some excellent reports that show the impact of IXPs in >> countries - cheaper, better, faster local connectivity - and local >> resiliency and redundancy vs tromboning traffic that benefits >> transit/transport vs local fabric. >> >> Jane >> >> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 9:08 AM Dave Taht wrote: >> >>> While I frequently do not agree with doug´s blog, he does make for >>> interesting reading, and oy! a bill to slow things down further... :( >>> >>> I am also curious as to the state of the cybergeography these days. >>> (anyone remember this old project? >>> >>> https://web.archive.org/web/20060218123215/http://www.cybergeography.org/atlas/topology.html >>> ) >>> >>> I have been researching the state of the IXPs nowadays, and kind of >>> wondering if there was a noticeable differen
