[board-discuss] Re: Draft document for TDF in-house developers proposal
Hi Paolo, all, Paolo Vecchi wrote on 23/02/2022 17:01: ... You can find the draft which starts outlining various concepts and lists some of the issues we have to address here: https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/fM8pCesPnF2JjN4 Thanks for sharing that! From the various quotes/texts under ‘Rationale’, there are some that I consider real arguments to consider hiring developers and others expressing random support, but no arguments. To me, most pressing is improving the work in areas that are badly covered now, so bugs, accessibility issues and maybe some features. Another option, though it is to be seen of that can be realistically combined with the first, is areas like mentoring and new contributors support. Various things I read are a sort of: we need in house developers because we need them. It’s an argument too, but not the type I’m looking for. Then taking – as example – this one: “This drop in contributions, taking the Commercial group back to the 2018 levels, clearly indicates that we need to work to foster new contributors with the help of new in-house developers and mentors.” On what grounds is the statement that this ‘clearly indicates that..’ made? Of course, it could be a possible way to achieve that goal, yes, could be. A goal that “internal developers which will both increase the speed of development and will help with the on-boarding of new external commercial, corporate and volunteer contributors” also will come with some requirements and/or circumstances to make that work, I guess. And also that hiring by TDF is (likely to be) a very/the most effective way to achieve those. I struggle to understand “The additional positive side of creating a team of in-house developers is that TDF will be able to accumulate and share knowledge and become the neutral forum where all contributors can exchange information and learn how to contribute better and more to LibreOffice.” I think this is not meant to say that the current LibreOffice development/team is not providing that? Among the various concerns that have been shared, and not only by commercial contributors.., for me the most problematic are having a good and realistic process to steer the work, and without possibly introducing in-house fighting left and right, as well as effectiveness of the spending, knowing the challenges for larger/complex code work. As expressed before, I’m willing to support a clearly defined trial since I consider that a good way to learn what is realistic and what is just wishful thinking. Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
On 26/02/2022 09:28, Thorsten Behrens wrote: The board has just decided to suspend the AB membership. Great work (and quick too). I do think we need to make it clear in whatever statement and/or notification we give that the individuals involved are not the problem, and that the door is open to return as/when they clarify their position and/or Russia ceases this horrifying aggression. I suggest someone edits the wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RusBITech To remove our name. Regards, Michael. -- michael.me...@collabora.com <><, GM Collabora Productivity Hangout: mejme...@gmail.com, Skype: mmeeks (M) +44 7795 666 147 - timezone usually UK / Europe -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
Hi all, It is of course good and necessary that we take action here. What Putin is doing is clearly wrong. Of course one could have discussions on the international political situation that plays a certain role, but that doesn't change my opinion on this act of violence. Also for me it is encouraging that many people in Russia speak up against this war. Doing that is known to be risky and thus brave and I - at a safe distance - would not dare to expect from anyone to follow the example. Then the fact the people work in military/defense industry, doesn't necessarily make them in favor of what is happening now. I know people that work there because they consider it wise to prepare to defense in case one is being attacked. Further more, we know from recent wars (Yugoslavia, Syria, etc. ) that very good friends became enemies after the powers in that country (the word 'leader' is misplaced there IMO) started a war. Therefore, whatever the TDF statement will be, I find in valuable to (try to) interact with the people involved that are with us in the AB. Furthermore for me the discussion deserves that awareness of the limitations of 'moral right choices'. There are many topics which have important moral aspects (I love them) that can lead to very lengthy and interesting discussions with 'only' arbitrary decisions in the end. And still the talking and listening is valuable, because it helps us to learn; maybe even to learn peace. Thanks for all input - much appreciated! & greetings, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
Hi Simon, Simon Phipps wrote on 26/02/2022 12:23: Thanks to the Board for this prompt action. Lothar's proposal for further steps was a good one. Will TDF be following his proposal? I appreciate Lothars proposal in many aspects. No doubt the board will discuss the situation and next steps (early) next week. Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 9:29 AM Thorsten Behrens wrote: > > Andreas Mantke wrote: > > In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after > > breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine. > > > The board has just decided to suspend the AB membership. > Thanks to the Board for this prompt action. Lothar's proposal for further steps was a good one. Will TDF be following his proposal? Cheers Simon -- *Simon Phipps* *TDF Trustee*
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
Hi Andreas, thx a lot for bringing this up. Andreas Mantke wrote: > In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after > breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine. > The board has just decided to suspend the AB membership. Best, -- Thorsten signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
On 25.02.2022 21:17, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, Andreas, Sophie, all, I think physical integrity, self-determination, freedom of expression are indispensable foundations of the LibreOffice community. And TDF doesn't want to be associated with any member / organization which is connected to violation of this foundations or with the breach of international law, attacks against other countries (e.g. the Ukraine) or war lords. Although TDF makes usually no political statements maybe there need to be an exception in this special case. Thanks for quickly asking TDF's board to take an action on this. I agree that usually TDF doesn't make political statements and this is an exceptional case that deserves a clear position from our foundation. I support this motion too and I hope to see an official reply from our board soon. Marina -- Marina Latini IRC: deneb_alpha on LiberaChat -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Advisory Board Membership of Rubitech-Astra
Hi all, I want to express my strong support of this motion from Andreas, Sophie and the urgency expressed by Simon to first suspend and consequently remove an advisory board member, who is affiliated and not in distance of what the Russian government is doing. My recommendation would be: Suspend them immediately and do not wait too long with this decision. Then give them 5 days for declaring strongly their distance from all these Russian government activities in public. If after 5 days it is not fulfilled, remove them from the seat in the advisory board and ask them to remove it from their website. If they do so you could release a press statement with the acceptance of the declaration of distance of them as ongoing prerequisite of having them in the AB. Any discovered weakening of this statement will be followed by immediately removing them/anybody from the AB. This is quite similar to a lot of organisations in industry, sports, art etc. doing in case of equivalent issues with persons or affiliates (e.g. a famous Russian conductor of the Munich Philharmonic Orchestra known as a close friend of the Russian president). Please take also into account as there was mentioned if someone else like from China want to engage for the sake of TDF would be hindered to contribute by that, that an ongoing participation of such a Russian government supporting advisory board member could hinder a lot of other potential contributors for engaging in TDF as well and of which we never get aware. And yes, any other organisation as supporter of a government behaving like this should be aware, that it is not welcomed in the advisory board of TDF. Because we want the best for TDF in long term we should do that. Sometimes it costs something in short term to follow fundamental values, but in long term it will pay out in the one or other way. ATB Lothar Am 25.02.2022 um 21:17 schrieb Andreas Mantke: Hi Sophie, thanks for your support. I also thank Paolo and Simon for their backing too. It would be great, if TDF could make a decision on this topic during this evening and create a statement. I think physical integrity, self-determination, freedom of _expression_ are indispensable foundations of the LibreOffice community. And TDF doesn't want to be associated with any member / organization which is connected to violation of this foundations or with the breach of international law, attacks against other countries (e.g. the Ukraine) or war lords. Although TDF makes usually no political statements maybe there need to be an exception in this special case. Regards, Andreas Am 25.02.22 um 20:27 schrieb Sophie: Le 25 février 2022 14:29:06 GMT+01:00, Andreas Mantke a écrit : Hi, according to the TDF website (https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/advisory-board/) LLC Rubitech-Astra is currently member of the TDF Advisoriy Board. I looked onto this wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RusBITech. There is stated that their software is used for the Russian government and army. In my view TDF should reconsider the membership of Rubitech-Astra after breach of international law by Russia and the attack against the Ukraine Thanks Andrea for bringing this difficult topic, I support your request too. Cheers Sophie Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer -- Lothar K. Becker, Former Member and Chair of the
