Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-09-24

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Sophie,

Am 16.10.19 um 10:26 schrieb sophi:
> Hi Andreas,
> Le 15/10/2019 à 21:35, Andreas Mantke a écrit :
>> Hello,
>>
>> it seemed the date on the membership website 
>> (https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/members/)
>> is again not in accordance with § 10 paragraph 2 sentence 1 of the statutes.
> Thanks for you feedback, it is now corrected.
> Cheers
> Sophie
>
thanks for your work!

Cheers,
Andreas



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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-09-24

[Andreas Mantke]

Hello Florian,

Am 16.10.19 um 10:33 schrieb Florian Effenberger:
> Hello Andreas,
>
> Andreas Mantke wrote:
>
>> if there is no mistake in the board-discuss list mail archive, Ilmari
>> accepted the role as a member of the MC on 2019-09-25 at 10.09 AM. Thus
>> he was not a
>> member of the MC during the 2019-09-24.
>
> one could also argue that § 12 II states that deputies automatically
> replace members leaving the MC. Accepting the new role is a good
> habit, but in any case, none of this does changes the MC decision as
> per § 11 II.
>

First: please decide for the way you want to go and be consequent. Don't
always try to change your rationale. If your new try would be correct,
why you are asking for accepting the role.

In my opinion the association law applies here (because there is no
special rule for foundations available, that is different from the rules
for associations and the statutes also provide no dedicated rule for
this). The membership in the MC is connected with duties. And there is
the rule that nobody could be obligated to do third parties duties. Thus
an acceptance of the role is necessary independent of the way this
acceptance would be declared (if the statutes or the law didn't ask for
a special form).

Thus it is not only a good habit, but necessary.

Kind regards,
Andreas




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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-09-24

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello Andreas,

Andreas Mantke wrote:


if there is no mistake in the board-discuss list mail archive, Ilmari
accepted the role as a member of the MC on 2019-09-25 at 10.09 AM. Thus
he was not a
member of the MC during the 2019-09-24.


one could also argue that § 12 II states that deputies automatically 
replace members leaving the MC. Accepting the new role is a good habit, 
but in any case, none of this does changes the MC decision as per § 11 II.


Florian

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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-09-24

[sophi]

Hi Andreas,
Le 15/10/2019 à 21:35, Andreas Mantke a écrit :
> Hello,
> 
> it seemed the date on the membership website 
> (https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/members/)
> is again not in accordance with § 10 paragraph 2 sentence 1 of the statutes.

Thanks for you feedback, it is now corrected.
Cheers
Sophie

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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-09-24

[Andreas Mantke]

Hello,


Am 15.10.19 um 16:12 schrieb Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco:
> Minutes of the Membership Committee meeting for 2019-Q4 filing.
>
> 1. Call to order & Roll Call
>
> The meeting took place on 2019-09-24.
> Membership Committee Members present: Jona Azizaj, Gustavo Buzzatti
> Pacheco, Dennis Roczek, Ilmari Lauhakangas, Gabriele Ponzo

if there is no mistake in the board-discuss list mail archive, Ilmari
accepted the role as a member of the MC on 2019-09-25 at 10.09 AM. Thus
he was not a
member of the MC during the 2019-09-24.

Kind regards,
Andreas


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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-09-24

[Andreas Mantke]

Hello,

it seemed the date on the membership website 
(https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/members/)
is again not in accordance with § 10 paragraph 2 sentence 1 of the statutes.

Kind regards,
Andreas


Am 15.10.19 um 16:12 schrieb Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco:
> Minutes of the Membership Committee meeting for 2019-Q4 filing.
>
> 1. Call to order & Roll Call
>
> The meeting took place on 2019-09-24.
> Membership Committee Members present: Jona Azizaj, Gustavo Buzzatti
> Pacheco, Dennis Roczek, Ilmari Lauhakangas, Gabriele Ponzo
>
> 2. BoD elections (just as a confirmation from previous in person meeting)
> Dates are decided (see last meeting's minutes) but we need to find
> who'll care about Helios voting.
> Gabriele will make some attempt with it, since he used it for LibreItalia
>
> 3. K-J's resignation
> Gabriele: i'd like to invite him to think about remaining…
> MC unanimously accepted K-J's resignation and asked Ilmari to step in
> to replace the vacant position. Ilmari accepted.
> MC will (ask to) remove K-J from Telegram Group, Gerrit, mcm-db, IRC,
> Nextcloud group, Jitsi, ML… and update the Website and Wiki pages.
>
> 4. DashBoard
> See shared MockUp
> Gustavo will share some proposal for updating our tooling (mcm-db) to
> nowadays
>
> 5. Statistics of membership
> On MC Dashboard's home page
>
> 6. 10 years anniversary
> According to marketing programs, do we want to propose something in
> particular from MC?
> As soon as Italo will share the 60 events list, we should think about
> if and who attend them.
> Jona: if we'll have funds, it would be great to give some gadget like
> anniversary t-shirt and/or postcard to everyone in our community.
> Gustavo: according to Italo's speech we (MC) should try to prepare a
> list of oldest members
> Gabriele: I'd like to have a spreadsheet to order member lists by
> "duration" in TDF to have it ready in case we shouldn't enough money
> for everyone.
> Gustavo: I'm gonna prepare it
>
> 7. New Members
>
> The Membership Committee has received Membership Applications since
> the last review of the Membership Rolls, has reviewed these
> Applications in light of the requirement as defined in the Statutes of
> The Document Foundation, and has decided that the status of Member of
> The Document Foundation will be granted to the following persons, for
> a period of 1 (one) year effective the first day of the fourth quarter
> of 2019:
>
> Celia Palacios Gómez-Tagle
> Renato Javier Barsotti
> Ismael Fanlo Boj
> Richard Palusaar
> Jun Meguro
> Petr Valach
> Xiomara Céspedes Jiménez
> Andras Timar
>
> Approved by unanimous roll call vote.
>
>
> 8. Membership Renewals
>
> The Membership Committee has received Membership Renewal requests
> since the last review of the Membership Rolls. Memberships that are
> not renewed in a timely manner are deemed to have lapsed. The
> Membership Committee has reviewed these Renewal requests in light of
> the requirement as defined in the Statutes of The Document Foundation
> and decided that the following persons have their status of Member of
> The Document Foundation extended until the end of the third quarter of
> 2020.
>
> Lothar K. Becker
> Tulio Macedo
> Christophe Cazin
> Leo Moons
> Vitorio Furusho
> Stuart Swales
> Stephan Bergmann
> Arnaud Versini
> Eike Rathke
> Kees Kriek
> Pierre-Yves Samyn
> Gabor Kelemen
> Zeki Bildirici
> Diego Maniacco
> Osvaldo Gervasi
> Matteo Casalin
> Gabriele Ponzo
> Giordano Alborghetti
> Paolo Pelloni
> Dennis Roczek
> Laurent Balland-Poirier
> Ashod Nakashian
> Henry Castro
> Marco Cecchetti
> Tiago Carrondo
> Vasily Melenchuk
> Modestas Rimkus
> Mike Saunders
> Aron Budea
> Timur Gadžo
> Anxhelo Lushka
> Rob Westein
> Jona Azizaj
> Zdeněk Crhonek
> Eric Ficheux
> Silva Arapi
> Jens Carl
> Elisabetta Manuele
> Philippe Hemmel
> Dieter Praas
> Rizal Muttaqin
> Alexandre Arnaud
> Rene Leyva
> Behzat Yildirim
>
> Approved by unanimous roll call vote.
>
> 9 Adjourning
>
> All business being concluded, the meeting was closed on 2019-09-24.
>
> Meeting minutes approved:
>
> Gustavo Pacheco Keeper of the minutes
> Gabriele Ponzo Chairman
>
>
> --
> Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco, member of the Membership Committee
> The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin
> Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
> Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint
> My local Time: UTC-03:00 / CET-04:00



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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-06-18

[Andreas Mantke]

Hello,

it seemed the date on the membership website is not in accordance with §
10 paragraph 2 sentence 1 of the statutes.

Kind regards,
Andreas

Am 02.08.19 um 11:08 schrieb sophi:
> Meeting minutes
> Minutes of the Membership Committee meeting for 2019-Q3 filing.
>
> 1. Call to order & Roll Call
>
> The meeting took place on 2019-06-18.
> Present: Gustavo Pacheco (member), Gabriele Ponzo (member), Klaus-Jürgen
> Weghorn (member), Dennis Roczek (member), Ilmari Lauhakangas (deputy member)
>
> 2. New Members
>
> The Membership Committee has received Membership Applications since the
> last review of the Membership Rolls, has reviewed these Applications in
> light of the requirement as defined in the Statutes of The Document
> Foundation, and has decided that the status of Member of The Document
> Foundation will be granted to the following persons, for a period of 1
> (one) year effective the first day of the third quarter of 2019:
>
> Mauricio Baeza
> Grzegorz Araminowicz
> Hidayet Kurnaz
> Urska Colner Vracun
> Sanjog Sigdel
> Ömer Çakmak
> Ayhan Yalçınsoy
> Wangsheng Wang
> Iwan Suryanto Tahari
>
> Approved by unanimous roll call vote.
>
>
> 3. Membership Renewals
>
> The Membership Committee has received Membership Renewal requests since the
> last review of the Membership Rolls. Memberships that are not renewed in a
> timely manner are deemed to have lapsed.
> The Membership Committee has reviewed these Renewal requests in light of
> the requirement as defined in the Statutes of The Document Foundation and
> decided that the following persons have their status of Member of The
> Document Foundation extended until the end of the second quarter of 2020.
>
> Jean-Baptiste Faure
> Klaus-Jürgen Weghorn
> Björn Michaelsen
> Lior Kaplan
> Sverrisson Sveinn í Felli
> Irmhild Rogalla
> Miklos Vajna
> Christian Lohmaier
> Jesper Laugesen
> Kohei Yoshida
> Simon Phipps
> Michael Schinagl
> Thomas Hackert
> Klaibson Natal Ribeiro Borges
> Eliane Domingos de Sousa
> Takeshi Abe
> Christian Kühl
> Marc Paré
> Gustavo Pacheco
> Jean Hollis Weber
> Gerald Geib
> Jochen Schiffers
> László Németh
> Regina Henschel
> Sanjib Narzary
> Valter Mura
> Juan Carlos Sanz Cabrero
> Valdir Barbosa
> Ellen Pape
> Jean Spiteri
> Sam Tuke
> Heiko Tietze
> V Stuart Foote
> Noel John Grandin
> William Gathoye
> Baurzhan Muftakhidinov
> Mohamed Trabelsi
> José Gatica
> Steen Eskild Rønnow
> Ahmad Haris
> Battsengel Ichinnorov
> Jan-Marek Glogowski
>
>
> Approved by unanimous roll call vote.
>
> 4 Adjourning
>
> All business being concluded, the meeting was closed on 2019-06-18.
>
> Meeting minutes approved:
>
> Gustavo Pacheco Keeper of the minutes
> Gabriele Ponzo Chairman
>



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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-03-18

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

Andreas Mantke wrote:


- if I read the statutes correctly membership committee deputies are not
members of the MC. Thus in my opinion the sentence above should only
count four members of the MC.

- in my opinion it could be an issue with the European and German
privacy regulation to process personal data among more people than
absolutly necessary.


I talked to Andreas on the phone about this - thanks for taking the time 
to talk this through, Andreas!


Let's take the rest offlist, and let me use the opportunity to thank the 
MC for their work and welcome the new members! :-)


Florian

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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-03-18

[Andreas Mantke]

Hi Gustavo,

thanks for your answer.

Am 07.05.19 um 13:25 schrieb Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco:
> Hi Andreas!
>
> We didn't have changes in the MC and the list of the website is, of
> course, the official list. In the minutes we have only the presents. 
> It was just a coincidence that K-J  wasn't present in this meeting and
> Ilmari yes (if you see the order in the website and the list of
> presents in the minutes, indeed, seems that some change happened but
> it's just a coincidence).
>
> Regards
> Gustavo
>
>
>
> Em ter, 7 de mai de 2019 8:03 AM, Andreas Mantke  > escreveu:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Am 7. Mai 2019 10:08:07 MESZ schrieb sophi  >:
> >Meeting minutes
> >Minutes of the Membership Committee meeting for 2019-Q2 filing.
> >
> >1. Call to order & Roll Call
> >The meeting took place on 2019-03-18.
> >Membership Committee Members present: Jona Azizaj, Dennis Roczek,
> >Ilmari
> >Lauhakangas, Gabriele Ponzo, Gustavo Pacheco
> >
>
Two things:

- if I read the statutes correctly membership committee deputies are not
members of the MC. Thus in my opinion the sentence above should only
count four members of the MC.

- in my opinion it could be an issue with the European and German
privacy regulation to process personal data among more people than
absolutly necessary.

Kind regards,
Andreas



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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-03-18

[Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco]

Hi Andreas!

We didn't have changes in the MC and the list of the website is, of course,
the official list. In the minutes we have only the presents.
It was just a coincidence that K-J  wasn't present in this meeting and
Ilmari yes (if you see the order in the website and the list of presents in
the minutes, indeed, seems that some change happened but it's just a
coincidence).

Regards
Gustavo



Em ter, 7 de mai de 2019 8:03 AM, Andreas Mantke  escreveu:

>
> Hello,
>
> Am 7. Mai 2019 10:08:07 MESZ schrieb sophi :
> >Meeting minutes
> >Minutes of the Membership Committee meeting for 2019-Q2 filing.
> >
> >1. Call to order & Roll Call
> >The meeting took place on 2019-03-18.
> >Membership Committee Members present: Jona Azizaj, Dennis Roczek,
> >Ilmari
> >Lauhakangas, Gabriele Ponzo, Gustavo Pacheco
> >
>
> I'm curious to know, if the formation of the MC changed or is the listing
> on the TDF website still valid?
>
> Kind regards,
> Andreas
>
>
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>

Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee Meeting minutes 2019-03-18

[Andreas Mantke]

Hello,

Am 7. Mai 2019 10:08:07 MESZ schrieb sophi :
>Meeting minutes
>Minutes of the Membership Committee meeting for 2019-Q2 filing.
>
>1. Call to order & Roll Call
>The meeting took place on 2019-03-18.
>Membership Committee Members present: Jona Azizaj, Dennis Roczek,
>Ilmari
>Lauhakangas, Gabriele Ponzo, Gustavo Pacheco
>

I'm curious to know, if the formation of the MC changed or is the listing on 
the TDF website still valid?

Kind regards,
Andreas


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RE: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

[Dennis E. Hamilton]

It is none of my business how TDF establishes its governance and qualifies its 
officials.

Just the same, I thought it strange that there was a question of any conflict 
seen in Drew Jensen's participation on Apache projects.

I want to say two things, because I have Drew in high regard and I want to be 
clear about where he stands in my perspective and also my sense of the ASF 
philosophy and policies.

First about the ASF.  The Apache Software Foundation celebrates diversity and 
multiplicity in the world of open-source development.  It is a matter of policy 
that forks, peers, siblings, descendents and ancestors are all just fine, 
open-, close-, and licensed in any manner.  Apache has its own licensing regime 
and development approach, but it has no issue with the preferences of other 
projects.  

Now, some individuals have their personal histories, hurts, mistakes, and 
grievances, whatever they happen to be.  But that is irrelevant to where ASF 
fulfills its charter to operation in the public interest.  The ASF has no issue 
with whatever associations its contributors have beyond their contribution to 
Apache projects.

Individuals have differences and choose to go their own way, to return, to 
diverge, to scratch their own itches in whatever manner works for them. I say 
ASF honors all of that.  

Secondly, I want to acknowledge Drew for his steady presence, especially in 
some timely moments in the run-up to the migration of the OpenOffice.org Forums 
under Apache hosting.  Whatever Drew chooses to do, and whether he finds 
continued participation on AOOo inconsistent with that or not, I want it known 
that Drew is always welcome at AOOo, as is anyone else here, and he can come 
and go as he pleases with all of our blessings and thanks.  There are no 
recriminations, there is no litmus test, and Drew will always be welcome to 
contribute in any manner he chooses.

'Nuff said?

-Original Message-
From: drew [mailto:d...@baseanswers.com] 
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 13:31
To: board-discuss@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

Howdy Micheal, et al,

On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 16:59 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
[ ... ]
   Having said that - we've sounded out previous appointees more
 informally beforehand, which is perhaps harder here. Clearly this is a
 responsible role, and part of our formal governance. As such, some may
 have queries about your involvement with the Apache project, it'd be
 helpful to know what your plans are there.

Huh, it never crossed my mind that this would come up...ok, reality. 

Well, my plans - truthfully I'm not sure how my activity will
progressive within the Apache OpenOffice poddling. Presently I'm not
really doing anything there, my intent is to help out some with support
and QA tasks - if I can incorporate that into my schedule in such a way
that my efforts are useful I'll continue and if not quietly remove
myself from the project management committee.

Surely I could expand on my ideas of the two projects but am not at all
certain that would add much to the decision process here - I will add
just this, I don't feel that I would have any problem compartmentalizing
my activities between the two projects and should it arise that there is
some conflict would quickly take steps to resolve it, as needed.

If there are any other concerns on this point please, anyone, feel free
to ask and I will take the time to address them as best I can.

[ ... ]


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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

[Norbert Thiebaud]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton
dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
[...]

 First about the ASF.
This is not about ASF. ASF is just a mean to an IBM goal in that story.


 Now, some individuals
This is not so much about individuals either... AOOo owe its existence
to Corporate politics and interest. It was by no stretch of the
imagination a grass root movement.

[..]
 in the public interest.
Can you spare us the marketing line. Every similar 'Foundation'
operate under the same 'public interest' banner, which is a very broad
one, and does not means, contrary to what one would expect, 'in the
interest of the public'. (1)

[..]
 There are no recriminations, there is no litmus test,
You mean except signing an iCLA ?

 Drew will always be welcome to contribute in any manner he chooses.
Sure, but If Drew ask to be named V.P. of Community Development at
Apache, will he automatically get the job ? oh wait, no; I suppose he
has to, at least, become ASF member first...
wait, how one does become member at Apache ? humm... seems pretty
vague one cannot 'apply', one need to have buddies in the place
already to be 'proposed' for membership more like a Guild...

In the mean time Drew _is_ a member of TDF and as such is entitled to
run for BoD or MC, and of course to 'contribute in any manner he
chooses'... actually that later one does not even require membership,
or even signing up open ended liability agreement.

The question at hand is -- to avoid running BoD and MC election
concurrently, which would be a bad idea due to the necessary oversight
of each body on the election of the other -- how best organize the
transition to an elected MC. One proposition, that seems to be
favored, is to postpone the MC election to the middle of next year and
to re-conduct the current MC in the interim.
The problem is that the current MC does not have enough member to
conform to the foundation statute, as amended to fit the Host State
requirement. So we need to fill 1 MC member position and 3 MC deputy
positions.

Out current Bylaw provide that it is the prerogative of the BoD to
make such appointments. The only restriction established in the ByLaw
is that such appointees must be TDF members.
So every TDF member is eligible to such position, but none have any
'right' to it.

Just the same, I thought it strange that there was a question of any conflict 
seen in Drew Jensen's participation on Apache projects.

Since it is BoD's members prerogative to make such appointment, it
does not seems strange at all that they'd ask questions, publicly or
privately, to prospective candidate and other interested party to make
that decision.
And surely, when seeking a position of representation of the
membership  -- which is the case of the MC, which represent the
membership in the process of evaluating the somewhat subjective
criteria of 'substantive contribution' -- it is expected that a higher
scrutiny be applied to questions of allegiance and purpose.

Of course all that will become moot in few months, when the membership
at large will be called-upon to make that decision. Still I would not
be surprised if that sort of questions -- if still of relevance --
were to pop-up during the election cycle.

Norbert

(1) One could create an 'Charitable Association' whose purpose is to
help anyone prepare and fill software patents. That would most likely
fit the tax requirement to get a 'Charitable' tax-exempt status, which
is a 'public-interest' Association... It is nevertheless very arguable
whether that Association would be 'in the interest of the public'.

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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

[Norbert Thiebaud]

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:
 I am not questioning the prerogatives of the TDF to govern itself in any
 manner. Norbert is correct that I have no standing in the matter.

I don't think that was the meaning of my reply, if that is what you
take out of it, allow me to apologize for my failure to communicate.
I did not meant to imply that _you_ are 'questionning the prerogative of TDF',
and even less challenge question of your standing.


 Norbert, you can make my note mean whatever you want. I stand by it as
 written.

I'm not following... you must have read in my message something more
personal than it was intended.


 One more thing.  I have found folks on ooo-dev who are cynical about the
 honesty and character of TDF members, too, but nothing so blatantly virulent
 as was just inserted here.

I'm sorry, since you are top-posting, it is hard to known which part
exactly you are objecting to. Are there any facts in dispute ?

Norbert

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Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Drew,

Thanks for suggesting to help in the MC and your answer on Michaels 
questions.


drew wrote (05-11-11 21:31)

Howdy Micheal, et al,



I believe that I bring a number of personal attributes that fit quite
well to such a task.


As far as I have had contact with you over the past years, I can only 
confirm that.



Once again if there are any questions from anyone else please do not
hesitate to ask.


Not from me.
Kind regards,

--
 - Cor
 - http://nl.libreoffice.org


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RE: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think OpenOffice before the forking was under some fairly strange leadership. 
 ie a company that worked hard to increase community participation but not 
being very trusting of the communities they had grown = actively blocking many 
proposed patches and stuff developed by the community.  

Once Oracle took over things took a nose-dive and they demanded that people who 
held high positions in their community stepped down if they were also working 
in TDF.  I've even heard that Oracle took ownership of funds built-up by the 
community and refused to cover community expenses.  

So, we are dealing with 2 communities, or 1 fractured community that has been 
fed mis-information about each other.  As someone fairly new to the scene i 
think Apache are pretty much friends especially compared to profit-hungry 
organisations such as Oracle.  Hopefully time may heal some of the wounds but 
maybe a bit of dirty laundry needs to be aired in order for us to discover 
which bits of mis-information people have been fed. Hopefully we can do that a 
little more sensitively and compassionately in the future. 

Just my 2 cents and quite probably contains inaccuracies as it's mostly stuff i 
have picked up from the press rather than at first hand.  
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sun, 6/11/11, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote:

 From: Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org
 Subject: RE: [board-discuss] Membership Committee
 To: board-discuss@documentfoundation.org
 Date: Sunday, 6 November, 2011, 18:03
 I am not questioning the prerogatives
 of the TDF to govern itself in any 
 manner. Norbert is correct that I have no standing in the
 matter.
 
 I was simply surprised that it came up here and Drew felt
 he had to address 
 it.  I don't question his doing so and how deliberate
 he is being about it.
 
 The AOOo project has committers and PPMC members who are
 also contributors to 
 LO. I know because I see their work in both places. 
 No one has ever 
 questioned that at ASF.  Not once.
 
 However, I think Norbert's reply, below, is ample
 demonstration of the 
 polarization that individuals bring to these
 conversations.  It is not just 
 AOOo members who say outrageous things.  Of course,
 our own outrageous things 
 are always the truth, and therefore admirable, aren't
 they?
 
 Norbert, you can make my note mean whatever you want. I
 stand by it as 
 written.
 
 Also, I said that there are conditions on participation in
 various ways.  It 
 is true here, and it is true at ASF.  ASF has a
 license requirement, TDF has a 
 license requirement, there are ways one becomes a committer
 on Apache 
 projects, there are ways committer rights are granted for
 LO, etc.  Apache has 
 a license grant requirement, the iCLA, that, here, is
 handled by an e-mail 
 message.  ASF provides assurance of the code it
 releases in its way, the TDF 
 has it in its way.
 
 I am not arguing the merits of any approach.  Every
 open-source project has 
 its conditions for operation and participation. 
 Developers will contribute 
 where it is comfortable and inviting for them.  Not
 all developers are the 
 same in the choices they make.
 
 How ASF members are elected and how the ASF board operates
 is all available 
 on-line and I am not going to go into it.
 
 One more thing.  I have found folks on ooo-dev who are
 cynical about the 
 honesty and character of TDF members, too, but nothing so
 blatantly virulent 
 as was just inserted here.  I believe it is accurate
 to say that none of those 
 statements are policy positions of the respective
 organizations.  When they 
 happen at AOOo I ignore them as trolling or, if there is a
 policy-unacceptable 
 action being proposed, I challenge them as inconsistent and
 unacceptable.
 
 
  - Dennis E. Hamilton
    tools for document
 interoperability,  http://nfoWorks.org/
    dennis.hamil...@acm.org 
 gsm: +1-206-779-9430  @orcmid
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: Norbert Thiebaud [mailto:nthieb...@gmail.com]
 Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2011 02:18
 To: board-discuss@documentfoundation.org
 Subject: Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee
 
 On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton
 dennis.hamil...@acm.org
 wrote:
 [...]
 
  First about the ASF.
 This is not about ASF. ASF is just a mean to an IBM goal in
 that story.
 
 
  Now, some individuals
 This is not so much about individuals either... AOOo owe
 its existence
 to Corporate politics and interest. It was by no stretch of
 the
 imagination a grass root movement.
 
 [..]
  in the public interest.
 Can you spare us the marketing line. Every similar
 'Foundation'
 operate under the same 'public interest' banner, which is a
 very broad
 one, and does not means, contrary to what one would expect,
 'in the
 interest of the public'. (1)
 
 [..]
  There are no recriminations, there is no litmus test,
 You mean except signing an iCLA ?
 
  Drew will always be welcome to contribute in any
 manner he chooses.
 Sure

Re: [board-discuss] Membership Committee

[drew]

Howdy Micheal, et al,

On Thu, 2011-11-03 at 16:59 +, Michael Meeks wrote:
 Hi Drew,
 
 On Wed, 2011-11-02 at 10:57 -0400, drew wrote:
snip
  It was my intent to run for a seat on the MC, it is my understanding now
  that the elections will be moved to next year (the reasons seem quite
  reasonable IM).
 
   Oh - sorry that was a spoke in your wheels. Hopefully that'll get fixed
 in a few more (hectic) months.

as I said, the rational for the change makes sense to me.

 
  If I understand correctly there is however one slot currently not
  filled, for a generic deputy. If this is correct then I would like to
  offer my services for this position.
 
   That's right. Of course, the board will need to approve the lucky
 (haha) candidates in due course ;-) You have my vote - based on the
 great work I've seen you doing.

Thanks

 
   Having said that - we've sounded out previous appointees more
 informally beforehand, which is perhaps harder here. Clearly this is a
 responsible role, and part of our formal governance. As such, some may
 have queries about your involvement with the Apache project, it'd be
 helpful to know what your plans are there.

Huh, it never crossed my mind that this would come up...ok, reality. 

Well, my plans - truthfully I'm not sure how my activity will
progressive within the Apache OpenOffice poddling. Presently I'm not
really doing anything there, my intent is to help out some with support
and QA tasks - if I can incorporate that into my schedule in such a way
that my efforts are useful I'll continue and if not quietly remove
myself from the project management committee.

Surely I could expand on my ideas of the two projects but am not at all
certain that would add much to the decision process here - I will add
just this, I don't feel that I would have any problem compartmentalizing
my activities between the two projects and should it arise that there is
some conflict would quickly take steps to resolve it, as needed.

If there are any other concerns on this point please, anyone, feel free
to ask and I will take the time to address them as best I can.

  Similarly, it'd be nice to
 know your thoughts on the membership committee's role, criteria for
 membership etc. in the bylaws. If you'd feel happier sharing that
 privately - feel free, and I'll make sure it gets to the board.

snip

(In the sniped paragraph) You use the term administrative task and I
would say that this particular role is and should be best described by
just such wording. In my understanding of the by-laws as written the
goal of the membership committee is first and foremost to ensure that a
fair and sensible measure is applied during the decision process
regarding an individual's meritocratic contributions to the foundation's
activities.

I believe that I bring a number of personal attributes that fit quite
well to such a task.

A good general understanding of all the processes that go into growing
and maintaining our community and our projects/products.

A good working relationship with many of the individuals that make up
the foundation, both the official membership and our broader group of
supports.

The above will help to expeditiously process the applications.

Finally - IMO I also bring a good sensibility to such a task, meaning
that while I have no problem making my own decisions I try not to be
dogmatic, remaining open and receptive to input from the other people
involved on tasks. 

Once again if there are any questions from anyone else please do not
hesitate to ask.

Sincerely,

Drew Jensen


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