Re: [board-discuss] Hackfests, the next generation: A Call To Action

[Bjoern Michaelsen]

Hi Regina,

first off: Sorry for taking so long to reply.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 03:16:04PM +0200, Regina Henschel wrote:
> I would like to participate in such a Hackfest. I know, I do not belong to
> the targeted category of persons, but I want to code, and I could help in
> testing, whether a tutorial is really suitable for a beginner.

Actually I think you are a perfect candidates for the new Hackfest! Why 
shoouldnt
you be?

You:
- have a topic that, if we pursue it, benefits the foundations goals
  and the community of LibreOffice as a whole.
- are an enthusiastic independant volunteer with no CoI.
- are qualified and motivated to verify that someone TDF hires to put by your
  side to attack your topics, did their duty to proceed the topic.

Your suggested topics:

> As example I suggest layer handling in Draw, e.g these issues
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101218
> ODF  as a child element of  not supported
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67248
> FILEOPEN Layer with reserved name vanishes when changing UI language
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91829
> DRAW: Layout, Controls and Dimension Lines need improvement
> https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101242 
> ODF draw:display and draw:protected attributes of  not 
> supported
 
as thus duely noted to be topic for the Hackfest and TDF will try to hire a
certified developer to help support you with these issues.

As a note to the wider TDF/LibreOffice community: What Regina did here is 
awesome and
exactly what we are looking for. In fact, Eike and me still have a workitem to
pick out some of the more challenging EasyHacks to find something that:

- would benefit from an certified developer supporting the topic
- is roughly in scope for the Hackfest (plus some preparation and aftermath)
- meets the goals of the foundation and the LibreOffice community at large (not
  a special interest)
- will find an enthusiastic volunteer willing to learn more and able broadly
  verify the certified developer did indeed push the topic forward in the time
  given

So if you are an enthusiastic volunteer (like Regina) willing to come to a next
generation Hackfest and have such a topic that you care about and which would
benefit from support LET US KNOW. A hard part for Eike and me finding topics is
actually second-guessing where we might find interested volunteers attending
the Hackfest for the topic. Someone stepping up "I care about this and would go
to a Hackfest" like Regina just did is a huge help.

Best,

Bjoern

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Re: [board-discuss] Hackfests, the next generation: A Call To Action

[Regina Henschel]

Hi Bjoern,

Bjoern Michaelsen schrieb:


Suggested new format


But maybe revitalizing Hackfests are an opportunity here. Here is a suggested
new format:

- TDF selects a small of the tenderable topics (6 man days)
- TDF selects a "product owner" for the topic (could be an TDF employee or a
  qualified and motivated TDF member)
- TDF hires 2 certified developers from LibreOffices companies for 3 days each
- TDF offers 2 days "development training" to its members, but also to the
  general community: ideally we select four people for this.
- All are invited to a two day Hackfest.
- Hired consultants are expect to pair program with one of the volunteers on
  each day, with the hired person not distracted by other business and doing
  the main effort with the paired volunteer focusing on learning.
- On each day, one of the hired developers works on the projector of the room,
  allowing other partcipants to the Hackfest to observe and learn.
- Closing the day, each paired team will give a 5-15 minutes lightning talk on
  their progress and challenges over the day. This presentation should be done
  by the paired volunteer to the best of their ability and recorded e.g. by
  TDF staff for publication.
- Rest of the extra booked day should be used for a 1-hour prep Hangouts,
  follow ups and overtime.
- Selected paired volunteers should ideally be 50% certified or uncertified
  developers and at least 25% volunteers active in non-development areas (e.g.
  documentation, l10n ...).
- Beyond this, it will be a "normal" Hackfest allowing others to mix an mingle.



I would like to participate in such a Hackfest. I know, I do not belong 
to the targeted category of persons, but I want to code, and I could 
help in testing, whether a tutorial is really suitable for a beginner.


I write here, because I have a suggestion for a topic, where I have 
noticed, that I don't know enough to understand, what happens in the code:


Topic: How goes the information from the file into the model?

As example I suggest layer handling in Draw, e.g these issues
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101218 ODF 
 as a child element of  not supported
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67248 FILEOPEN Layer 
with reserved name vanishes when changing UI language
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=91829 DRAW: Layout, 
Controls and Dimension Lines need improvement
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101242 ODF 
draw:display and draw:protected attributes of  not supported


Kind regards
Regina






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Re: [board-discuss] Hackfests, the next generation: A Call To Action

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Shinnok,

On 30/08/17 09:55, Shinnok wrote:
> On this topic, I just probed the idea with Thorsten in my last one on one 
> with him
> about having a BoF talk at the two tech Unis in Iasi, Romania, my hometown:

The whole idea sounds like an extraordinarily effective use of time =)
I love the initiative, and glad that there are courses somewhere still
teaching C++ programming :-)

Good stuff,

Michael.

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Re: [board-discuss] Hackfests, the next generation: A Call To Action

[Shinnok]

Hi *,

On this topic, I just probed the idea with Thorsten in my last one on one with 
him about having a BoF talk at the two tech Unis in Iasi, Romania, my hometown:

* Faculty of Automatic Control and Computer Engineering, Iasi
* Faculty of Computer Science A. I. Cuza, Iasi (I followed this one)

The reason I think this would be a good idea is that, at least at these two 
Unis, the C.S. curricula is still heavily based on systems and C++ programming 
from the start and with a traditional bottom to top (architecture, assembly, up 
the stack) curricula, unlike many other western ones which migrated to boarding 
with scripting, web and java for e.g.  For that very reason there is quite an 
impressive number of C++ devs (juniors or fresh out of college) on the lookout 
for serious C++ work and the opportunity to prove themselves somehow; and if LO 
wouldn't satisfy that, don't know what could! :-)

I think this could be a good opportunity to spread the word a little bit, maybe 
develop a relationship with the universities and hopefully in the end board new 
enthusiastic developers.

I don't think I'd have the time to work something up for this semester, but 
could aim for the next one. My approach would be to get in touch with the 
administration, set up an "official" BoF or talk, then following interest 
shown, continue with a couple successive getting started hackfests/marathons 
during the weekends, at the University. They have Ubuntu/Mint and LO already 
installed on all machines AFAIK since many years ago, not to mention that Open 
Source is really highly regarded and heavily used in Romania as a whole.

Regards,
Shinnok

> On Aug 27, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Bjoern Michaelsen 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:30:58PM +0200, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
>> If you are interested in helping with this, either as:
>> 
>> - someone on the ground helping to organize the Hackfest
>> - someone who wants to pair program with a hired certified developer at a
>>  Hackfest
>> - someone who is just interested in joining the Hackfest in general
>> - someone who helps fleshing out the details of this idea
>> 
>> feel free to contact me. I will try to set up a team of people interested in
>> getting this off the ground. As noted above, if this proves to be successful,
>> this might be the start of something excited and big bringing this community
>> and project to a new level!
> 
> The initial feedback here on and off board-discuss@ is encouraging, so here 
> are
> the next steps:
> 
> - I created a wiki-page to collect ideas on this:
>  https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfests/HackfestTNG
>  Please feel free to contribute ideas, hints and comments there!
> - The next task is to nail down a date and location for the event. There is
>  already some interest from some local communities on this (see wiki). I hope
>  to be able to set up a conference call on next Sunday (September 3rd, 2017)
>  european afternoon. Sunday afternoon as it should allow as many interested
>  volunteer community members to join as possible. I (or Florian) will announce
>  the time here[1].
> - We will also talk about topics for the Hackfest during the call, but it wont
>  be as urgent as time and location right now.
> 
> If you are interested in any of these topics, please feel most invited to join
> the call!
> 
> Best,
> 
> Bjoern
> 
> [1] I'll ask Florian to setup the details.
> 
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Re: [board-discuss] Hackfests, the next generation: A Call To Action

[Michael Meeks]

Hi Bjoern,

TLDR; I think we should try this - not because it is without potential
problems (I'll elaborate below), but because encouraging trying new
ideas is an important thing that we should be doing =) and quite
probably this is another great idea from you.

And then of course a few concerns:

On 22/08/17 22:30, Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:> - TDF selects a small of
the tenderable topics (6 man days)
Who selects that ?

> - TDF selects a "product owner" for the topic (could be an TDF
> employee or a qualified and motivated TDF member)

I guess one current organizational problem is finding someone to take
ownership and/or responsibility, but I would hope that at first you can
take ownership =)

> - TDF hires 2 certified developers from LibreOffices companies for 3 days each

One of the big problems here is open and transparent selection
criteria: what are they ? is this based on hourly rates or communication
skill, or domain programming expertise etc. ? With a fixed price tender
(assuming the tender was well specified) - it is all about price - which
is a single number; red-tape aside - I hope that is reasonably easy to
select. My other concern was privileging locations - such that travel /
accommodation cost become a significant part of the problem.

> - Controlling and the need to proof due diligence going away as it is 
> performed
>   right in the open and self-documented, reducing the vast redtape needed to
>   set up and run tenders in the first place

Having never been involved in the selection process I've not seen the
red-tape internally to TDF; but I have helped to write specifications -
which are often arrive in a tender-able state ready to be published.
Beyond that I guess there is the need for organizations to estimate &
provide bids which is some real effort though not made by TDF - and then
for TDF to decide and/or to select the lowest number surely ?

ATB,

Michael.

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Re: [board-discuss] Hackfests, the next generation: A Call To Action

[Thorsten Behrens]

Hi Bjoern,

Bjoern Michaelsen wrote:
> I recently had a look at a variety of challenges the LibreOffice
> community is facing wrt Hackfests and especially also tenders:
> 
Love the general direction here -

> If you are interested in helping with this, either as:
> 
> - someone on the ground helping to organize the Hackfest
>
*raising hand*

> - someone who helps fleshing out the details of this idea
> 
*raising hand* - that said, I might recuse myself at some stage,
should there arise a conflict of interest - as it might be entirely
possible my company would offer such development mentoring services.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten


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