Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC 7.8.5 for Mac

[Charlie Fenton]

I have temporarily removed BOINC 7.8.5 while I investigate a possible problem 
in the client when running on older Macs.

Cheers,
--Charlie

> On Jan 12, 2018, at 3:38 AM, Charlie Fenton  wrote:
> 
> I have built BOINC 7.8.5 for the Mac and uploaded it to 
> . This is a release for Macintosh only; there 
> are no changes from 7.8.3 or 7.8.4 affecting the code for any other platform.

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Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC 7.8.5 for Mac

[Charlie Fenton]

I have not checked task run times. As I understand how the IOSurface APIs work, 
once the graphics app has been rebuilt with the latest libraries, it does not 
move bitmaps around; it uses the GPU directly and shared memory.

However, the fallback method I just added is quite inefficient because it does 
copy bitmaps in RAM, and so is likely to slow things down. That is why I 
initially implemented the IOSurface method. Hopefully, all projects will 
upgrade their graphics apps sooner rather than later by relinking with the new 
libraries.

Adding the new fallback method is definitely a tradeoff. As I wrote in the PR 
, I felt that the project 
"screensavers" are an important marketing tool. When people see the graphics on 
a friend's computer, they can become curious and ask about what they see, 
helping spread word of mouth about BOINC And I believe that few BOINC projects 
have yet updated their graphics apps to work with the BOINC screensaver under 
Mac OS 10.13. I asked David's opinion and he agreed that I should proceed with 
this change.

On versions of OS X older than the latest OS 10.13, there will be no difference 
in how the screensaver displays the graphics so there will be no new effect on 
CPU caches or task run times.

Running the screensaver has always had some effect on task run times, since it 
is an additional process. That is why the default is to go to a blank screen 
after several minutes.

Cheers,
--Charlie

> On Jan 12, 2018, at 10:13 AM, Juha Sointusalo  
> wrote:
> 
> On 12 January 2018 at 13:38, Charlie Fenton 
> wrote:
> 
>> This allows older project graphics apps to be displayed by the Mac
>> screensaver under OS 10.13 High Sierra, though at a slower frame rate than
>> project graphics apps which have been relinked with the BOINC graphics
>> libraries version 7.8.3 or later. The slower frame rate can make animations
>> appear less smooth.
>> 
> 
> I don't know how these changes work on the OS side, under the hood.
> Assuming the worst, that this works by copying bitmaps around, I wonder
> what kind of effect this has on task run times. It might not use CPU time
> all that much but it could slow down apps by trashing CPU caches.
> 
> Did you happen to check task run times before and after this change?
> 
> -Juha
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Re: [boinc_dev] [boinc_alpha] BOINC 7.8.5 for Mac

[Richard Haselgrove]

Click twice (two separate single clicks) on the words 'Last modified' above the 
date column. That will bring the most recent items - the two files that Charlie 
prepared today - to the very top of that very long page. 

On Friday, 12 January 2018, 19:33, Bill Barber 
 wrote:
 

 Your link goes to a very long page.
Bill
> On Jan 12, 2018, at 6:38 AM, Charlie Fenton  wrote:
> 
> I have built BOINC 7.8.5 for the Mac and uploaded it to 
> . This is a release for Macintosh only; there 
> are no changes from 7.8.3 or 7.8.4 affecting the code for any other platform.
> 
> Please promote it to recommended version when appropriate.
> 
> This allows older project graphics apps to be displayed by the Mac 
> screensaver under OS 10.13 High Sierra, though at a slower frame rate than 
> project graphics apps which have been relinked with the BOINC graphics 
> libraries version 7.8.3 or later. The slower frame rate can make animations 
> appear less smooth.
> 
> There is no change in the way the screensaver displays project graphics apps 
> on versions of Mac OS X prior to OS 10.13, whether or not the graphics apps 
> have been relinked.
> 
> Cheers,
> --Charlie
> 
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Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC 7.8.5 for Mac

[Juha Sointusalo]

On 12 January 2018 at 13:38, Charlie Fenton 
wrote:

> This allows older project graphics apps to be displayed by the Mac
> screensaver under OS 10.13 High Sierra, though at a slower frame rate than
> project graphics apps which have been relinked with the BOINC graphics
> libraries version 7.8.3 or later. The slower frame rate can make animations
> appear less smooth.
>

I don't know how these changes work on the OS side, under the hood.
Assuming the worst, that this works by copying bitmaps around, I wonder
what kind of effect this has on task run times. It might not use CPU time
all that much but it could slow down apps by trashing CPU caches.

Did you happen to check task run times before and after this change?

-Juha
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Re: [boinc_dev] server stable release issues

[Kevin Reed]

"boinc_dev"  wrote on 01/12/2018
02:54:44 AM:

> From: Laurence 
> To: 
> Date: 01/12/2018 02:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [boinc_dev] server stable release issues
> On 11/01/18 22:29, Marius Millea wrote:
> >
> >> 3) Assuming the cycles are independent, how should we number server
> >> releases?
> >> We could use the same numbering for both, but this has problems:
> >> - A sequence of releases in one part would cause gaps in the release
> >> numbers
> >>of the other part.
> >> - It would create the false impression that there's a connection or
> >>dependency between client and server releases with the same number.
> >> So my recommendation is that we start with 1.1.1 for the server
version
> >> number.
> >>
> > In the limited number of "releases of
> > boinc-server-docker that I've made to-date, I struggled with using
semantic
> > versioning (like 1.1.1) because it was always tough to know whether
> > something was a backwards compatible change (if we're being honest, I
think
> > *alot* of server commits are technically backwards incompatible), and
> > whether something was a bug-fix or true feature. Ultimately, it wasn't
> > clear it really mattered or will matter for us, the real goal is just
> > having a stable point. For that reason, I would recommend just doing
> > something easy and clear like "calendar versioning"
> > with e.g. YY.MM.MINOR. Anyway, I don't feel extremely strongly about
this,
> > but thought I'd suggest it.
> >
> The server must always be backwards compatible with the client. The
> general approach is roll forward with versioning. Hence, the most
> important aspect is that the version numbers are incremental. Try to
> avoid adding too many semantics to them.  The basic major.minor.patch
> semantics will lead to divergence of version number between the client
> and the server. This would be an argument for having them in separate
> repositories. But practically it does not matter.
>

Just my 2 cents.

1) The server should strive to be compatible with versions of the client
released with the past few years (maybe 4-5 years).
2) I vote in favor of semantic numbering.  Since we might test version 1.2
of the server and then release it in say Feb 2018 as version 1.2.5.  Master
might move on to version 1.3 (assuming same dev/release odd/even numbering
as client).  Then in June we might find a critical bug and fix the 1.2
release and release it as 1.2.6 but also start a 1.4 release cycle from the
1.3.  It would be unclear with a date oriented numbering what we would call
1.2.6 and 1.4.1.  This assumes that we will create stable release branches
for the server like we do for the client (which is something I am in favor
of).

thanks,
Kevin
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Re: [boinc_dev] BOINC 7.8.5 for Mac

[Jord van der Elst]

Warning to people trying to download this BOINC. The download list index
cannot be approached via HTTPS address, it must be HTTP.
So http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dl/?C=M;O=D instead of
https://boinc.berkeley.edu/dl/?C=M;O=D
The latter address will give a 403 Forbidden error, and say
"You don't have permission to access /dl/ on this server.
Apache/2.2.15 (Scientific Linux) Server at boinc.berkeley.edu Port 443"

(Mind, linking directly to a file to be downloaded from there does work.)


-- Jord van der Elst.

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:38 PM, Charlie Fenton 
wrote:

> I have built BOINC 7.8.5 for the Mac and uploaded it to <
> http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dl>. This is a release for Macintosh only;
> there are no changes from 7.8.3 or 7.8.4 affecting the code for any other
> platform.
>
> Please promote it to recommended version when appropriate.
>
> This allows older project graphics apps to be displayed by the Mac
> screensaver under OS 10.13 High Sierra, though at a slower frame rate than
> project graphics apps which have been relinked with the BOINC graphics
> libraries version 7.8.3 or later. The slower frame rate can make animations
> appear less smooth.
>
> There is no change in the way the screensaver displays project graphics
> apps on versions of Mac OS X prior to OS 10.13, whether or not the graphics
> apps have been relinked.
>
> Cheers,
> --Charlie
>
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> (near bottom of page) enter your email address.
>
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[boinc_dev] BOINC 7.8.5 for Mac

[Charlie Fenton]

I have built BOINC 7.8.5 for the Mac and uploaded it to 
. This is a release for Macintosh only; there are 
no changes from 7.8.3 or 7.8.4 affecting the code for any other platform.

Please promote it to recommended version when appropriate.

This allows older project graphics apps to be displayed by the Mac screensaver 
under OS 10.13 High Sierra, though at a slower frame rate than project graphics 
apps which have been relinked with the BOINC graphics libraries version 7.8.3 
or later. The slower frame rate can make animations appear less smooth.

There is no change in the way the screensaver displays project graphics apps on 
versions of Mac OS X prior to OS 10.13, whether or not the graphics apps have 
been relinked.

Cheers,
--Charlie

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Re: [boinc_dev] server stable release issues

[Laurence]

On 11/01/18 23:18, David Anderson wrote:


Most server software releases would involve changes to the DB structure
and would therefore be backward incompatible.

I would not class this as backward incompatibility.


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Re: [boinc_dev] server stable release issues

[Laurence]

On 11/01/18 22:29, Marius Millea wrote:

Hi David, glad to see this ongoing.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 8:59 PM, David Anderson 
wrote:


Issues involving potential "server stable" releases:

1)  What's included in the server release?
My recommendation: everything except the client,
i.e. web code, API, server code, scripts, wrappers.
The complete package of what a new project would need.


I was under the impression the server release is just a tag of a specific
commit, so what's "included" is the whole source tree at that point, no?




2) Should the client and server release cycles be independent?
I think so.
Although there are exceptions, changes generally involve only one or the
other.
The points at which we want to branch and start testing will generally be
different.



I'd vote independent, yes.
They have to be. Once released there is little control over versions 
used. Volunteers can have any client version and projects can have any 
server version. Hence there is no build/release/version link between the 
client and server. They are linked by RPCs which should be 
documented/version/tested independently and always be backwards compatible.





3) Assuming the cycles are independent, how should we number server
releases?
We could use the same numbering for both, but this has problems:
- A sequence of releases in one part would cause gaps in the release
numbers
   of the other part.
- It would create the false impression that there's a connection or
   dependency between client and server releases with the same number.
So my recommendation is that we start with 1.1.1 for the server version
number.


In the limited number of "releases
" of
boinc-server-docker that I've made to-date, I struggled with using semantic
versioning (like 1.1.1) because it was always tough to know whether
something was a backwards compatible change (if we're being honest, I think
*alot* of server commits are technically backwards incompatible), and
whether something was a bug-fix or true feature. Ultimately, it wasn't
clear it really mattered or will matter for us, the real goal is just
having a stable point. For that reason, I would recommend just doing
something easy and clear like "calendar versioning" (https://calver.org/)
with e.g. YY.MM.MINOR. Anyway, I don't feel extremely strongly about this,
but thought I'd suggest it.

The server must always be backwards compatible with the client. The 
general approach is roll forward with versioning. Hence, the most 
important aspect is that the version numbers are incremental. Try to 
avoid adding too many semantics to them.  The basic major.minor.patch 
semantics will lead to divergence of version number between the client 
and the server. This would be an argument for having them in separate 
repositories. But practically it does not matter.


Cheers,

Laurence




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