Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
At 07:04 PM 1/15/04, Bryon Daly wrote: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 04:08 PM 1/15/04, Bryon Daly wrote: When I first read Bush's proposal, one of the first things that struck me was that it seems to be far too little new money, and far too little time, It took only 8 years from JFK's speech until Apollo 11, and JFK's speech happened less than four years after the very first ever object was launched into Earth orbit. . . . and, BTW, six weeks (plus one day for the excruciatingly pedantic among us) after the first ever man in space and three weeks (minus one day) after the first and to that time only US manned launch. Yes, but I believe that to have been a crash program, NOT an appropriate term to use wrt aerospace . . . with lots of money and resources brought to bear on it, with the singular goal in mind. (Am I wrong on that?) I've often heard use of an Apollo-type program to describe an intense, high-focus program to achieve some goal. Can reappropriating just 1/7 or so of NASA's budget allow for this sort of intense program? From some of the analysis I've seen, it looks as if NASA will still be spending part of its energies and a fair bit of its budget on the shuttle and space station, plus probably still trying to maintain at least some portion of its unmanned robotic exploration efforts. One big oopsie for me: Rereading Bush's speech, I realize his target for a return to the moon is 2015-2020. I had misremembered his testing date for the CEV (2008) as the targeted moon landing date, so it's a far more reasonable 11-16 year timeframe that the short 4-6 year time frame I was thinking. Even so, though, is that enough time (and is the budget sufficient) to develop both a heavy lifting Saturn V replacement, the CEV, and the moon probes? How long did the shuttle take to launch, from day 1 until its first true first space mission? I'm afraid our big project track record since the Apollo days isn't so encouraging. Which imho is at least in part because the vision was lacking. No more higher, faster, further, but a step back. As many people pointed out at the time, it was rather ironic, not to mention sad, that three decades after he became the first US astronaut to orbit the Earth, John Glenn's second flight into space was another low Earth orbit mission. (ie: F-22) All that said, I do really like the idea of a return to manned exploration of space, a Moon base and Mars landings. I was pretty disappointed the last time I remember a president (was it Bush?) sorta mentioned a manned Mars mission, there seemed to be a resounding No! from some of the science community. And a loud Yes!! from some of us. I hope the Yes voices are louder this time. So really, my concern here is in how realistic the proposal is. Exactly how realistic a proposal was Apollo on 25 May 1961? I'd prefer a realistic appraisal up front of the time and costs involved over one that earns a reputation as behind schedule and over budget. (Not to say that I think that will be the case, but Easterbrook's numbers cause me some concern. Particularly the Saturn V cost $40b in today's dollars Can we do it plus the CEV today for under $12b when Boeing spends $7.5b designing a new airliner?) Easterbrook was a bit snarky with some of the stuff you quote below, which I won't defend, but I'll add some comments. The name doesn't even make sense. Who cares? I think Manned Exploration Vehicle would make more sense, but Easterbrook's just nitpicking here. That was my point. ;-)) I suspect, however, MANned Exploration Vehicle, like MANned mission to Mars, or I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a MAN on the moon and returning HIM safely to the Earth won't fly in the 21st century . . . Which is one of the questions I brought up last night in class: What will the structure of the crew be? All men, with a military or paramilitary command structure? A mixed crew, perhaps as some SF writers have suggested, composed of married couples to allow them to maintain at least an appearance of respectability? I asked my students (as I've asked them before) to consider, if they are married, what would happen if we shut them and their spouse up together in a room the size of the classroom for the next year or two . . . and whether both of them would still be alive at the end of that time . . . Will the task of the vehicle be to explore the crew? No. Its task will be to LAND HUMAN BEINGS ON MARS . _That's_ what's inspiring about it. I agree. Yep. Command Module, Service Module, or Lunar Module are not inspiring names in and of themselves. What made them inspiring was what they did. So far all money numbers announced for the Bush plan seem complete nonsense, if not outright dishonesty. We shouldn't expect George W. Bush himself to know that $12 billion is not enough to
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
At 06:32 PM 1/15/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Thursday 2004-01-15 16:28, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: spaceship is the Crew Exploration Vehicle? How inspiring! Less inspiring than, frex, Lunar Module? The name doesn't even make sense. Who cares? Will the task of the vehicle be to explore the crew? No. Its task will be to LAND HUMAN BEINGS ON MARS . _That's_ what's inspiring about it. Who cares if its inspiring? Me. And I know I am not alone in this. Look I was raised to be a liberal. WADR, I consider my stance on political and social issues to be a product of informed choice, not simply the way I was reared. (I don't mean that as a slap at you or anyone. I'm not sure how to say it better without it sounding like I'm insulting anyone who disagrees with me or my views, and that is *not* what I am saying. I'm just saying that my opinions are uniquely my own . . . something which should be obvious by now to the members of this list. ;-) ) I feel that we should fund medicaide and take care of poor sick folk. (Heck, I am poor with chronic illnesses As am I. *I* will not be going to Mars -- unless it's the same way Gene Shoemaker made it to the Moon, and I have absolutely no desire, much less plans, for that to happen -- unless they develop a method of getting there which is a whole lot faster and less stressful than what is currently available. That particular rocket launched long ago -- 27 years ago this past Monday, to be precise¹. (¹That was the day I picked up the application package for the astronaut program. On the way to do so, something happened that led me to reconsider the course I should take. I went ahead and picked up the package, but I never completed it, and I'm quite sure that was the right decision.) and would *benefit* from socialized medicine.) I dunno if I would benefit or not, either medically² or financially -- assuming that socialized medicine were to be done right. I also have doubts about it being done right. (Though that is a discussion for another time.) (²My problems are ones for which no one currently knows the cause -- though I could tell you the date of onset with almost as much precision as the date in the above paragraph -- much less a cure or any effective treatment.) I feel that we should fund primary and secondary education till public schools can flush money down toilets. I think that if teachers can't or aren't allowed to teach (e.g., forced to use programs which don't work, like whole language instead of phonics, bilingual education which actually delays the students' learning of English, etc.), and especially if parents are not interested, involved, and responsible, there is little to be gained by giving money to educators -- especially when many of the highest-paid never enter a classroom -- over flushing it down a toilet³. (³It may indeed be an American standard, but I'm not laughing.) I feel that we should provide adequate housing for everyone. By building projects, or by helping people who need help to find a house and yard that they own and feel responsible for? I feel ... well you get the picture. Right back atcha, hopefully. I THINK all of this would be bad public policy. And I think that, given the government's record on social issues (the housing projects of the Sixties, frex, or the education issues I mentioned), putting the government in charge of more of them would be really bad public policy. Most people feel better and do better when they are in control of their destiny, and most people are poor stewards of someone else's money, be they politicians spending tax money to get re-elected or people living in government-provided housing. Heck, people who rent (from private property owners) rather than own their homes are not exactly noted for keeping the property up. The attitude of far too many people seems to be the heck with it: it's someone else's problem rather than it's someone else's property: I'm just renting it temporarily, so I should take care of it, as I would like someone who borrowed something of mine to take care of it. When the administration announces grand plans for manned space programs i FEEL proud, excited, and--yes--even inspired. And that feeling immediately makes me suspicious. Is this fiscally responsible? Is it rational? I think, no, I *KNOW* that basing public policy on emotion IS irresponsible -- unpatriotic. In brute, lowest common denominatior terms what is in this gold-plated fools' errand for me? When Isabella sent Columbus to look for a route to the Indies she wasn't investing in exploration. Exploration was a nice side effect. Isabella's primary motivation was making a LOT OF MONEY! If we build a big new booster what will be the tangible return on investment? What about the crew vehicle? The moon colony? How the @#$% do you plan to get tangible ROI from a manned mission to Mars? If you do get ROI will it make
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
In a message dated 1/15/2004 11:55:13 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Everything I'm trying to do by way of numbers, is to make Alvin filthy rich whether or not he really wants to be so. William Taylor Why? You want the short answer or the summary of the full novel? It is repeatedly mentioned in Heaven's Reach that Gillian will publish Alvin's journal even if she doesn't hear back from him. The book cannot be nothing other than a success. The one single lodge was always full after one year of being on Hurumphta. Without any sort of off world publicity. After the book has been published, I envisioned that Alvin would eventually need seven lodges at that bay, and own the next five bays up and down the coast. Other than just making him successful, I wanted him to be rich enough to offer to pay for, by himself, the Uplift ceremony equipment that was left on Garth, and bring it to Hurumphta to hold a totally unnecessary Uplift Ceremony for the Rousit, who were being in danger of becoming short furry versions of dour boring humorless hoon clones. The Civilization of the Four Galaxies can use a diversion. The war against the Tandu isn't going very well, though of course it did instantly stop the siege of Earth We know that it'll be Huck that is the one that does the most to change hoon thinking. It is written: Huck'll bury hoon dogma. Alvin just provides the capital to do so. (And that's the _short_ version.) William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Fwd: Top5 Comics - 1/16/04
== TOPFIVE.COM'S LITTLE FIVERS -- COMICS http://www.topfive.com/fivers.shtml == January 16, 2004 NOTE FROM DAVE: The rumor mill has it that Joss Whedon, of Buffy the Vampire Slayer fame, will be joining the writing staff of New X-Men. Convoluted scripts, multiple simultaneous plots, characters appearing and disappearing -- sounds like ol' Joss will be right at home in the X-universe. Let's hope he can remember which universe he's writing in... The Top 9 Changes to X-Men Under Joss Whedon 9 Cyclops? Still a whiny little snot. 8 Archangel goes back to being just plain Angel -- but now looks a helluva lot like David Boreanaz. 7 Spin-off featuring Cyclops taking on evil mutants in a new city all alone... except for Rogue... okay, and then eventually Nightcrawler... and... well, most of the team. 6 Less angst, more quips. 5 Havok will now suck blood instead of just suck. 4 The sudden addition of a younger sister for Jubilee, now that Jubilee herself is older than most of her fans. 3 Really annoying cameo appearances by Seth Green -- every frickin' issue. 2 Yeah, the black leather duster looks cool, Logan. But what's with the bleached hair and cockney accent? and the Number 1 Change to X-Men Under Joss Whedon... 1 And then this one time, in Mutant Camp [ Copyright 2004 by Chris White] [ http://www.topfive.com ] == Selected from 88 submissions from 47 contributors. Today's Top 5 List authors are: -- Arthur Levesque, Laurel, MD -- 1, 4 (10th #1) Jeremy Bleichman, Fair Lawn, NJ -- 2 Steve Theberge, Plaistow, NH -- 3 Erik Deckers, Syracuse, IN -- 5 Jennifer A. Ford, Fort Wayne, IN -- 6, 7 Randy Lee, Burke, VA -- 8 Jack Scheer, Falls Church, VA-- 9 Dave Goudsward, Lake Worth, FL -- Yes, I *was* dead last issue. == [ TOPFIVE.COM'S LITTLE FIVERS ] [Top 10 lists on a variety of subjects ] [ http://www.topfive.com ] == [ Copyright 2004 by Chris White All rights reserved. ] [ Do not forward, publish, broadcast, or use ] [ in any manner without crediting TopFive.com ] == [ To complain to the moderator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] [ Have friends who might like to subscribe to this list? ] [ Refer them to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] == ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
SCOUTED: Fwd: English Police Want to Manage Car Flow Wirelessly
Computerised lamp posts look like being the basis of the biggest data network ever, as the world's traffic monitors set about controlling cars with wireless. And the result could be an absolute windfall for a startup company which, it seems, owns all the relevant patents. The excitement about WiFi has, at last, started penetrating through to the consumer mind, with home users connecting their PCs to the Internet without wires and working in their bedrooms, sitting rooms, kitchens, and even in coffee shops, gyms and railway stations. And it turns out that you can even use your PC as a sort of free telephone - to the point where people are even asking whether perhaps, home-made wireless might penetrate further than 3G phone networks can. One day, maybe in three years or longer, perhaps, say the pioneers. But if Last Mile is right, then the WiFi revolution could happen much, much faster than anybody has dreamed. It will give us the Internet almost literally everywhere - in town, in the country, even in tunnels - and it will give commerce and industry a whole new media. And it could start being installed this year, using the world's highways as the base network. It's a very simple concept. Take a lamp post, put electronics in it, send messages to other wireless devices, including other lamp posts. You can link the lamp post to the Internet directly, if there's an internet connection available - any sort of connection at all will do. High speed fibre is best, but if that's not available, then a satellite, or maybe a phone line nearby can be used. And if there's nothing at all, then ask the next lamp post if it has any Internet connection. It may do. If it doesn't, the next one may do; and so you go along the road until you find one that does. It takes fractions of a second to complete the chain; and once the chain is complete, any data you like can be sent down it. The only surprising thing is: it's probably not going to be used to carry phone calls, after all. The trigger for the new wireless revolution is a decision - not just in the UK, but world-wide - that traffic needs to be monitored. Cars need to be identified electronically; their speed checked all the time (not just when going past cameras!) and even more critically, data needs to flow back to the drivers, ensuring they know what is going on ahead of them. In the car, monitoring equipment keeps tabs on the state of the engine. If there's an accident, accelerometers can alert the network to the crash, before it turns into a multiple vehicle pile-up. Other vehicles rushing towards the scene can be automatically notified, and a new speed limit imposed within a fraction of a second of the accident happening - and, in theory, the speed limit could be enforced, once legislation to enable this is available. The eventual dream, of course, is that people won't have to drive any more. Computerised motor vehicles will automatically travel at a safe speed and a safe distance from other traffic; tired drivers won't be able to kill themselves and others, and you won't have to take a train in order to get work done on the journey. But to make that possible, a telematics network has to be set up first. When the UK Highways Agency started planning this future, it put out a tender for the contract to equip the major roads with wireless. It quickly became apparent to them that Last Mile owned all the relevant patents for the system they had in mind, reports CEO, Antony Abell. They went to the old Road Research Laboratory, now the TRL, who made a recommendation for microwave beacon technology for roadside telematics; at the end, they had a pretty good design, but they found that to implement it involved using our patents. It's such a good system, however, that they're going ahead. The system Last Mile has evolved uses high frequency microwave radio, very low power, with a very fast data rate. To be specific, the frequency is more than 30 times faster than the normal cellphone frequency - it operates at 63 GHz, compared to the 1.9 GHz of American GSM cellphones, for example - which means it can carry enormously more data. If you look at how much electronics you can get into a lamp-post, or a traffic light, or any other bit of ordinary street furniture such as a 'Keep Left' sign or a 'No Entry' indicator, it's impressive, said Abell. A typical Wi-Fi network carries 11 megabits per second, out of which the user gets 5 megabits maximum - which is ten times the data that most people get over their broadband service over ADSL or cable modems. And that then gets divided up, so if you have two users, they get half that; if you have four, they get a quarter, and so on. But we reckon that we can launch our system with a very conservative data service of up to 40 megabits per second for every user in the micro-cell around a lamp post. And we're confident that we can then upgrade the performance to a maximum of
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
In a message dated 1/16/2004 12:01:10 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, but I believe that to have been a crash program, NOT an appropriate term to use wrt aerospace . . . And Bill Dana will sue for copyright infringement. William Taylor Oh, I hope not. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
At 10:17 PM 1/15/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Thursday 2004-01-15 20:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Snip _That's_ what's inspiring about it. Who cares if its inspiring? Look I was raised to be a liberal. I feel that we should fund medicaide and take care of poor sick folk. (Heck, I am poor with chronic illnesses and would *benefit* from socialized medicine.) I feel that we should fund primary and secondary education till public schools can flush money down toilets. I feel that we should provide adequate housing for everyone. I feel ... well you get the picture. I THINK all of this would be bad public policy. I'll give up on the space program when you give up the social programs Philistine From Hell Um. I thought I was pretty clear. I HAVE given up on the social programs. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You have given up on social programs, but you still want the government to collect tax money from citizens and throw it at the same programs you have given up on? If that is indeed what you are saying you want the government to do, is that fiscally responsible? Is it patriotic? Is it rational? (If I have misunderstood what you are saying in this and previous messages, I would appreciate being corrected . . .) -- Ronn! :) The contents of this message © 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the contents of this message, with or without attribution, with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Republicans Vs Science: healthcare disparities
http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003024.html BLACK IS WHITE, UP IS DOWNVia Chris Mooney, I see that the Bush administration assault on science is alive and well. Here's the story: Congress mandates that HHS produce an annual report on healthcare disparities related to race and poverty. The most recent version was released a month ago, but it turns out that the final version released by the political troops was dramatically different from the initial draft written by HHS scientists. Upon learning of this, Bush heckler-in chief Henry Waxman commissioned a report comparing the scientists' draft with the final draft. Here's my favorite part: http://www.house.gov/reform/min/politicsandscience/pdfs/pdf_politics_and _science_disparities_rep.pdf The scientists' draft concluded that disparities come at a personal and societal price, including lost productivity, needless disability, and early death. The final version drops this conclusion and replaces it with the finding that some priority populations' do as well or better than the general population in some aspects of health care. As an example, the executive summary highlights that American Indians/Alaska Natives have a lower death rate from all cancers. You gotta love it. Amid all the bad data they were able to find a few examples where minority groups did better than others, so they highlighted that instead. This is sort of like commissioning a report on income disparities and highlighting the fact that blacks do very well in the area of professional basketball. Do these guys have no shame at all? I can't imagine that I'm going to be attacked for telling the truth. Why would I be attacked for telling the truth? Paul O'Neill, 60 Minutes ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
When the administration announces grand plans for manned space programs i FEEL proud, excited, and--yes--even inspired. And that feeling immediately makes me suspicious. Is this fiscally responsible? Is it rational? I think, no, I *KNOW* that basing public policy on emotion IS irresponsible -- unpatriotic. In brute, lowest common denominatior terms what is in this gold-plated fools' errand for me? When Isabella sent Columbus to look for a route to the Indies she wasn't investing in exploration. Exploration was a nice side effect. Isabella's primary motivation was making a LOT OF MONEY! If we build a big new booster what will be the tangible return on investment? What about the crew vehicle? The moon colony? How the @#$% do you plan to get tangible ROI from a manned mission to Mars? If you do get ROI will it make sense in terms of opportunity cost. We have underfunded schools, biomedical research, and ageing population and military obligations we need to see to, remember. Money or national security only please. I believe that as a citizen I have a *responsibility* to resist temptation and make decisisons as a pure Philistine. As a citizen I dont care a whit about pure science, the human quest, or feel-good programs. WADR, you sound pretty emotional here . . . Well, perhaps I am. I would like a good reason to execute the Lets go to Mars program. Unfortunately, no one has given me a good reason. You will not suffer liberals fiscal mismanagement. I am a fiscal conservative. How, pray tell, is going to Mars good fiscal policy? It seems like a big waste of money to me. I'd *LIKE* to be proven wrong. But so far people have only gotten angry at me for expecting them to meet the same burden of proof they put on others. And maybe the problem is that I brought up social programs. NASA doesn't even compete with them. Should we take money from the airforce? What about from particle physics? It doesn't matter, airforce weapon systems, automated space exploration, parks, medical research, it all should meet the same burden of proof. Why, in terms of national defense or the national economy, is this program good public policy? Why should it crowd out any of a dozen other competing programs? What is the tangible benefit from the program? What will be the tangible benefits from a manned mission to Mars? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
On Friday 2004-01-16 00:56, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/15/2004 11:55:13 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Everything I'm trying to do by way of numbers, is to make Alvin filthy rich whether or not he really wants to be so. William Taylor Why? You want the short answer or the summary of the full novel? It is repeatedly mentioned in Heaven's Reach that Gillian will publish Alvin's journal even if she doesn't hear back from him. The book cannot be nothing other than a success. Thereby pissing off all the septs of Jijo. In terms of GIM legal action the point is moot, but the Hoon will NOT be amused when Alvin besmirches their reputation for excellent galactic citizenship. On the otherhand, if the book were published Alvin might enjoy J. K. Rowling like income. This would make revenue from his yachting business trival, so you wouldn't need your 42 major Hoon colonies. The one single lodge was always full after one year of being on Hurumphta. Without any sort of off world publicity. After the book has been published, I envisioned that Alvin would eventually need seven lodges at that bay, and own the next five bays up and down the coast. Other than just making him successful, I wanted him to be rich enough to offer to pay for, by himself, the Uplift ceremony equipment that was left on Garth, and bring it to Hurumphta to hold a totally unnecessary Uplift Ceremony for the Rousit, who were being in danger of becoming short furry versions of dour boring humorless hoon clones. If he has JK Rowling's wealth why purchase the stuff on Garth. I thought the Humans were planning to keep the Uplift stuff on Garth. They will be needing it alot in the next few millenia. Besides, wouldn't the Guthasa and Hoon already have their own Uplift paraphernalia? Also, it would make more sense to have a cloak-n-dagger novel wherein Alvin and friends pervert a planned Rousit uplift ceremony to make them pick, say, the Tymbrimi as patrons. The Civilization of the Four Galaxies can use a diversion. The war against the Tandu isn't going very well, though of course it did instantly stop the siege of Earth We know that it'll be Huck that is the one that does the most to change hoon thinking. It is written: Huck'll bury hoon dogma. It is? Is DB having you read his drafts? Alvin just provides the capital to do so. (And that's the _short_ version.) William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
On Friday 2004-01-16 02:32, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 10:17 PM 1/15/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Thursday 2004-01-15 20:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um. I thought I was pretty clear. I HAVE given up on the social programs. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You have given up on social programs, but you still want the government to collect tax money from citizens and throw it at the same programs you have given up on? No. I have given up on social programs and think the government should spend little or no money on them. I think that if someone with no money shows up in an emergency room they should get no treatment even if this means that the person dies. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RFID tags to be tracked by DNS over the internet
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/articleview/735/1/1/ VeriSign to Run EPC Directory EPCglobal has awarded the company a contract to manage the system for looking up information related to Electronic Product Codes. Jan. 13, 2004EPCglobal, the organization that is commercializing Electronic Product Code technology, has awarded Internet and telecommunications infrastructure services provider VeriSign a contract to manage the directory for looking up EPC numbers on the Internet. VeriSign's Brendsel VeriSign manages the core Domain Name Service (DNS) directory that allows Internet users to look up the Internet Protocol address for Web sites that end with .com. It was chosen because it has the infrastructure needed to handle the vast number of EPC look-ups. Today, VeriSign handles 10 billion DNS look-ups per day. Jon Brendsel, director of products for the Naming and Directory Services division at Mountain View, Calif.-based VeriSign, says the company's infrastructure can handle 100 billion look-ups today. A lot of people have talked about the EPC Network as if it were a fanciful concept that was developed by MIT and the Auto-ID Center, says Brendsel. We're starting to drive home the fact that it isnt that fanciful. It's based on technology that's here today, and it will be available as of today. Under the EPC Network system, each company will have a server running its own Object Name Service (ONS). Like DNS, which points Web browsers to the server where they can download the Web site for any particular Web address, ONS will point computers looking up EPC numbers to information stored on something called EPC Information Servicesservers that store information about products. Companies may maintain their own EPC Information Services or subcontract it out, but it will use a distributed architecture, with information about products in more than one secure database on the Web. Under the deal with EPCglobal, VeriSign will manage the EPC Networks root directory: The system that points computers to each company's ONS. VeriSign has already set up the infrastructure at six sites around the world. These are servers that maintain a registry of ONS servers. Computers will access the registry via the Internet, and if one registry goes down temporarily, a computer requesting information about an EPC number will automatically be directed to another registry site, guaranteeing 100 percent up time. This is a major step forward that gives momentum to the development of the EPC Network, says Jack Grasso, a spokesperson for EPCglobal. There was a rigorous process for choosing the company to provide the service. We think this will give subscribers more reason to get actively involved in the development of the network. One question some observers have had is whether the EPC Network will be adopted or whether existing data synchronization servicessuch as UCCnet and Transormight provide the look-up services for EPC numbers. Wal-Mart has said that, for now, it will use UCCnet's product registry and share data with suppliers via Wal-Marts own extranet, called Retail Link. EPCglobal's Grasso and VeriSign's Brendsel sees the EPC Network and UCCnet as complementary. I think it's important to look at them separately, says Grasso. As we learn more about the deployment of EPC technology, needs are going to vary, the amount of data will be orders of magnitude different than were used to, so I think to allow the EPC Network to evolve as it needs to. Brendsel says the two serve different functions. UCCnet is primarily a product catalog that provides product information to ensure that suppliers and retailers are sharing the same information related to a single class of product. It is accessed via the Internet and could be one source of data that the ONS points to on the EPC Network. But he says that the UCCnets centralized system would be overwhelmed if you had to refer to it every time you scanned an EPC tag. VeriSign also announced the availability of managed services. It will host ONS servers for customers and guarantee 100 percent availability. It will also host EPC Information Services. Companies will be able to establish rules for allowing partners to access information on the service, and then VeriSign will control access and deliver information to authorized parties. VeriSign will provide these services, which were announced back in September, to customers for a fee. - If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. - Diebold Internal Memos ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Renting was Re: Martian Emotion
And I think that, given the government's record on social issues (the housing projects of the Sixties, frex, or the education issues I mentioned), putting the government in charge of more of them would be really bad public policy. Most people feel better and do better when they are in control of their destiny, and most people are poor stewards of someone else's money, be they politicians spending tax money to get re-elected or people living in government-provided housing. Heck, people who rent (from private property owners) rather than own their homes are not exactly noted for keeping the property up. The attitude of far too many people seems to be the heck with it: it's someone else's problem rather than it's someone else's property: I'm just renting it temporarily, so I should take care of it, as I would like someone who borrowed something of mine to take care of it. -- Ronn! :) My second job the owner has not replaced his hot water heater because he rents the building and feels the property owner should do it. We don't handle foodstuffs, but if you were in a place and you knew the employees bathroom had no hot water? I agree with my bosses point, but if the contract does not say one way or another I'd either replace the heater and subtract it from my rent, or just swallow the cost, it's not like it's thousands of dollars. In fact, no other equipment is paid for by the building owner, maybe he shouldn't pay for this either. I've rented and had people rent from me. I swear to Crom that I will never do either, unless I'm owning a beach house or mountain chalet. Kevin T. - VRWC Cold, so very cold ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Exterminate!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3400429.stm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
a New kind of Republican Science
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18006-2004Jan14?language=print er Peer Review Plan Draws Criticism Under Bush Proposal, OMB Would Evaluate Science Before New Rules Take Effect By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, January 15, 2004; Page A19 A number of leading researchers are mobilizing against a Bush administration plan that would require new health and environmental regulations to rely more solidly on science that has been peer-reviewed -- an awkward situation in which scientists find themselves arguing against one of the universally accepted gold standards of good science. The administration proposal, which is open for comment from federal agencies through Friday and could take effect in the next few months, would block the adoption of new federal regulations unless the science being used to justify them passes muster with a centralized peer review process that would be overseen by the White House Office of Management and Budget. Administration officials say the approach reflects President Bush's commitment to sound science. But a number of scientific organizations, citizen advocacy groups and even a cadre of former government regulators see a more sinister motivation: an effort to inject White House politics into the world of science and to use the uncertainty that inevitably surrounds science as an excuse to delay new rules that could cost regulated industries millions of dollars. The way it's structured it allows for the political process to second-guess the experts, said Georges Benjamin, executive director of the 50,000-member American Public Health Association, one of many groups that have spoken against the proposal. The escalating debate over the OMB effort is the latest in a series of recent battles involving claims of politicization of science under Bush. In areas including embryo cell research, contraception and global warming, scientists in the past year have increasingly accused the White House of undercutting the federal scientific enterprise to please religious conservatives and corporate constituents. At issue this time is a proposed rule -- technically a bulletin, an OMB term for legally binding language meant to guide federal agency actions -- that would require a new layer of OMB-approved peer review of any scientific or technical study that is relevant to regulatory policy. John Graham, OMB chief of regulatory affairs and a prime architect of the administration proposal, said: Peer review in its many forms can be used to increase the technical quality and credibility of regulatory science . . . [and] protects science-based rulemakings from political criticism and litigation. Scientists across the board say they agree with that. But because peer review can also be subject to peer pressure, the question is who will do it, and under whose control. Under the current system, individual agencies typically invite outside experts to review the accuracy of their science and the scientific information they offer -- whether it is the health effects of diesel exhaust, industry injury rates, or details about the dangers of eating beef that has been mechanically scraped from the spinal cords of mad cows. The proposed change would usurp much of that independence. It lays out specific rules regarding who can sit on peer review panels -- rules that, to critics' dismay, explicitly discourage the participation of academic experts who have received agency grants but offer no equivalent warnings against experts with connections to industry. And it grants the executive branch final say as to whether the peer review process was acceptable. The proposal demands an even higher level of OMB-approved scrutiny for especially significant regulatory information, a term defined in part as any information relevant to an administration policy priority -- a concept that William Schlesinger finds alarming. The agencies implementing the plan -- the OMB and the Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) -- are fundamentally political entities, Schlesinger, president of the Ecological Society of America, which represents 8,000 scientists in academia, government and industry, wrote in a recent letter to the OMB. It is critical that barriers between federal science and politics remain in place. These guidelines appear to weaken that vital divide. A separate concern is that the proposed process would create long delays. After all, experts said, for all its elegant capacity to discern fact from fiction, science rarely provides definitive answers. And regulations in search of certainty may wait forever. This is an attempt at paralysis by analysis, said Joan Claybrook, president of Public Citizen, a government watchdog group that has also questioned the legal basis of the OMB proposal. Much of the budget agency's claim to authority over peer review comes from the Information Quality Law -- a few lines of text slipped into the 2001 Treasury appropriations bill that was never
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
From CNN Quick News this morning (Fri 16 Jan): HOON UNDER FIRE FROM UK WAR WIDOW The UK's defense secretary has expressed regret for the death in Iraq of a British soldier ordered to hand back his body armor because of an equipment shortage. http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/01/16/uk.hoon/index.html -- Ronn! :) The contents of this message © 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the contents of this message, with or without attribution, with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
At 04:21 AM 1/16/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Friday 2004-01-16 02:32, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 10:17 PM 1/15/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Thursday 2004-01-15 20:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Um. I thought I was pretty clear. I HAVE given up on the social programs. Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You have given up on social programs, but you still want the government to collect tax money from citizens and throw it at the same programs you have given up on? No. I have given up on social programs and think the government should spend little or no money on them. I think that if someone with no money shows up in an emergency room they should get no treatment even if this means that the person dies. Methinks I detect more than a note of sarcasm here . . . -- Ronn! :) The contents of this message © 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the contents of this message, with or without attribution, with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
No. I have given up on social programs and think the government should spend little or no money on them. I think that if someone with no money shows up in an emergency room they should get no treatment even if this means that the person dies. Wow. So if I get into a car accident, because I don't yet have insurance, and because I'm currently walking the tight rope between solvency and bankruptcy, I should be allowed to die? I hope you were just being sarcastic! Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Tg Territories
Trent Shipley wrote: Good. So you do not care that the Alpha Centuri colony is Class-A, or are you proposing that is it Class-B? It could be anything. Probably a world in _far_ worse shape than any other, but not a dead world like Mars or Venus. Please tell me more about the Alpha Centuri colony -- or at least more about our current knowledge on the Alpha Centuri system. A double-star system, where one is Sunlike, the other smaller than the Sun, but both could have Earth-like planets in the ecologically viable zone. Proxima, the third star, is so far away and so small that it doesn't count. It's going around the Sun-like star. What is the star's name? What is the other part of the double star? Is it close enough to influence climate on our new colony? Ok, the _technical_ names of the stars that make up the Alpha Centauri system are Alpha Centauri A [the Sun-like star], Alpha Centauri B [almost Sun-like, but smaller; it's still in the spectral class that usually is considered fit to have Earth-like planets] and Alpha Centauri C aka Proxima Centauri [a red dwarf, so far away from A and B that we don't know if it's gravitationally bound to them or not. I would guess that it's _not_ bound to them] The A+B pair is sufficiently far away not to influence the climate, but bright enough to lighten the night sky in such a way that the observation of stars would be difficult [imagine something brighter than the Moon but pointwise like Venus] It's your baby. Give it a name -- Portuguese maybe (or nonsense derived from Portuguese). Ah, I don't have enought creativity to make up things! :-) Alberto Monteiro the creativity challenged ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Exterminate!
At 05:49 AM 1/16/04, The Fool wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3400429.stm For some reason this page won't load. Can you give us a summary? -- Ronn! :) The contents of this message © 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the contents of this message, with or without attribution, with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Tg Territories
At 08:49 AM 1/16/04, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Ok, the _technical_ names of the stars that make up the Alpha Centauri system are Alpha Centauri A [the Sun-like star], Alpha Centauri B [almost Sun-like, but smaller; it's still in the spectral class that usually is considered fit to have Earth-like planets] and Alpha Centauri C aka Proxima Centauri [a red dwarf, so far away from A and B that we don't know if it's gravitationally bound to them or not. I would guess that it's _not_ bound to them] It does share the proper motion of the AB pair. -- Ronn! :) The contents of this message © 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the contents of this message, with or without attribution, with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub + IGC Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrations against Islamization
I am starting to think that it might be a full-time job to keep debunking the daily lies spewed forth by The Fool on brin-l. At any rate, The Washington Post reports today that President Bush (whom The Fool disrespects as Shrub) had nothing to do with this law passed by the IGC. Indeed, this law only very narrowly passeg the IGC. Moreover, The Washington Post reports today that the top Bush Administration offical in Iraq, Paul Bremer, is very likely to exercise his oft-criticized authority to veto IGC regulations in this instance, and prevent these laws from taking effect. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21321-2004Jan15.html Of course, The Fool's daily propaganda points would have Brin-L'ers with the distinct impression that these moves were taken with the Bush Administration's approval. Pretty cowardly tactics, if you ask me, from someone who spends so much time whining on this List about supposed propaganda from The Bush Administration and Fox News. Bob Z., you asked me a little bit ago to provide you an example of hypocrisy. I believe that I have just done so. JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
The problem with space travel is money. The cost of reaching low earth orbit from the surface of the earth needs to drop by a factor of 20 or more. At the moment, space flight is expensive and has few users: * the military: long range artillery, espionage, weather forecasting, communications relay * everyone else: earth resources investigation, weather forecasting, communications relay Scientists are also provided some funding, Sadly, the current demand for space flight will not much increase even if the cost to carry a ton into orbit is halved or quartered. For a US presidential commitment to look like something other than a warning to the Chinese and an election year gambit, the president must commit the country to lower the costs of going into orbit radically, by a factor of at least 20. If the cost comes down to a level that people and ordinary businesses can afford, then we will see a huge increase in demand -- whole new industries will be invented or existing industries changed. But not until then. Unfortunately, the major US and foreign companies in the space business have no incentive to reduce costs dramatically: to do so would also reduce their profits dramatically. Not only that, such a cost reduction would require they abandon their current more or less predictable future for one that is full of organizational unknowns. The companies do have an incentive to keep track of possible cost cutting technologies, in case someone else introduces them. Hence, the various `advanced' research projects you can read about. Also, these projects make for good PR. However, unless the alternative is to lose their current business, the companies have no reason to institute programs that would reduce their current profits and not be predictable by current `good business' criteria. In addition, as an organization, NASA has no incentive to cut launch costs radically. For one, NASA employees can clearly foresee both their future and that of their organization when the current methods are followed. Moreover, much NASA development is actually done by companies and some think of the agency as a mechanism to provide corporations with disguised welfare. (Scientists, engineers, and such like people think differently; but they don't count bureaucratically. They are useful for creating things that produce good PR, like the Hubble space telescope, and the current unmanned landing on Mars.) Worse, the US government can clearly see the military danger of relatively inexpensive earth to orbit travel: another country could launch several dozen space ships that appear to be normal, civilian craft. They will cross over the US; it could be arranged that all cross the US as the same time, apparently accidentally. If they carry bombs, they could launch them with almost no warning. Large weapons could be detonated in orbit, not giving any warning at all. (It is for this reason that I expect that the US and other countries will insist on an inspection regime.) For these reasons, I do not think the Bush proposal means much, except as a way to stop spending on space telescopes, missions to Mercury, asteroids, and Pluto, and on advanced earth resources research. As for inexpensive earth to orbit travel: there are two obvious ways to achieve this: * A nuclear thermal rocket. The initial US research in the 1960s did not do so well (rocket engines crumbled) but eventually tests lasted until the hydrogen ran out. One kind of rocket engine produced too low a thrust, given its mass, for lift off the planet; but other kinds had thrust-to-mass ratios of 30 to 1 and could be used in a single stage to orbit rocket. These are for tested nuclear rocket engines. There are some really interesting `advanced' designs, too. I have been told that a nuclear rocket development program, leading to a viable current design, would cost no more than $5 - 10 billion US dollars. I don't know whether this is true. The problem with nuclear thermal rockets is two fold. Firstly, the current designs always put some radioactive fission products into the exhaust. The impression I get is that the releases per launch are less than a 1 GW coal-fired electric power station puts into the air (from uranium dust in the coal that goes up the smoke stack). But I don't know. Secondly, some nuclear thermal rockets will crash. That is inevitable, just as some nuclear submarines have sunk. Launch trajectories can be designed so that not too much damage is done by a crash; but people will worry. How confident are you that Russian or Ukrainian built vehicles will safer than the nuclear power station at Chernobol? The way to reduce the number of crashes is to reduce the number of rockets, planet-wide. This raises the price of going into orbit and reduces the military risk. It also means that the
RE: Exterminate!
From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] At 05:49 AM 1/16/04, The Fool wrote: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/tv_and_radio/3400429.stm For some reason this page won't load. Can you give us a summary? I don't generally go to pages without any sort of indication what they are but guessed this had something to do with Doctor Who. I was right: A long-lost Dalek episode of Doctor Who has been returned to the BBC by an engineer who rescued the film from destruction in the early 1970s. The episode of The Daleks' Master Plan, from 1965, was returned by Francis Watson - who worked at the BBC when episodes were thrown out to make space. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
In a message dated 1/16/2004 3:04:47 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The book cannot be nothing other than a success. Thereby pissing off all the septs of Jijo. In terms of GIM legal action the point is moot, but the Hoon will NOT be amused when Alvin besmirches their reputation for excellent galactic citizenship. Gillian's report would be enough to do that. First: A year after Streaker gets back to Earth, the book hasn't been published. That fact can't be changed. So I worked with it. It took almost a full year or argument, mostly in secret, to get a judgement from the Galactic Institutes that no action whatsoever will be taken against any race involved with anything that took place on Jijo. The point is mute. No one can go back to Jijo to clean up anything. Only then can the book be printed. And Alvin doesn't care much for standard hoon behavior patterns. But he's much more respectful of them than either Huck or Mudfoot. The former teaching classes and the latter hacking into the Hurumphta press network. On the otherhand, if the book were published Alvin might enjoy J. K. Rowling like income. This would make revenue from his yachting business trival, so you wouldn't need your 42 major Hoon colonies. Ten's good enough. 42 was a don't panic reaction. And the first lodge to be built using his book's royalties will have all qheuen carving. Civilized qheuen never ever though of earning income and status by becoming artists. If he has JK Rowling's wealth why purchase the stuff on Garth. I thought the Humans were planning to keep the Uplift stuff on Garth. They will be needing it alot in the next few millenia. Besides, wouldn't the Guthasa and Hoon already have their own Uplift paraphernalia? Balance of trade. This way Alvin doesn't take away any cash from Earthclan. With compound interest factors, holding onto it for a few millenia would be a big net loss. Also, it would make more sense to have a cloak-n-dagger novel wherein Alvin and friends pervert a planned Rousit uplift ceremony to make them pick, say, the Tymbrimi as patrons. The exact opposite in every way. The Rousit haven't even been given speech yet. They do not technically qualify for their first Uplift Cerimony. They do not have the right to change patrons. But cohorts are an entirely different matter. Mudfoot is the cloak and dagger. The Tymbrimi are currently banned from making contact with the Rousit on Hurumphta, who are all rejects to uplift as their sense of humor is stronger than the rousit of the more civilized hoon planets. ---which is being BRED OUT. (Hurumphta, at only 1000 years old is the youngest hoon colony planet.) The point of Alvin paying for what the hoon's in power don't want is that by law, an Uplift Ceremony is the only time and place when all races must be allowed to observe. ...and the Tymbrimi can become the Rousit's new cohort. (Along with the Forski--but that's another long story.) We know that it'll be Huck that is the one that does the most to change hoon thinking. It is written: Huck'll bury hoon dogma. It is? It's too good of a pun to ignore. If our good Dr. Brin didn't plan it from the start, then it beats the record of no one at first recognizing that RU-486 was a bad pun. (Are you for 86ing the fetus?) Is DB having you read his drafts? Not yet. :-) I did get to read his new Martians are all Libertarians story. Some guesses have proven to be wrong. And Dr. Brin says that he's got a better way to have Gillian finally get to Tom than my idea of having them meet at the Uplift Ceremony. But he did offer to 'give' me a different crew member. I thought that was interesting. :-) to infinity. But all you have to do is read the novels to logically guess where Tom was hiding out for over a year,and that a Tandu War is in the future, and that it'd be the most logical way to end a siege of Earth. You can even figure out how the Tandu are defeated. ...but not from going to the Library. William Taylor Dr. Brin even asked me if he had ever emailed me any details...Nope. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub + IGC Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrations against Islamization
John, I believe we had already discussion wrt the Fool's posting habits. I had thought that maybe he had learned something, but I was wrong. Although I have no love for either Bush or the Republican party (I will most likely vote against him, and I'm a registered Democrat), I also try to be impartial, something I don't think he either understands or cares for. For me, he has really hurt his credibility, and question everything he posts. Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] asked Exactly how realistic a proposal was Apollo on 25 May 1961? Fairly realistic. Not only were many of the technical details worked out in the 1940s and 1950s, but the US started development of the large rocket engines used by the Saturn boosters in the 1950s. The challenge was difficult, but `doable', which is why President Kennedy chose it. Also, the challenge was simple to define: carry a man (or in the event, two men per mission) to the surface of the moon, and bring him (them) back alive. Nothing else was important: not establishing a presence in space similar to the US presence in Antarctica after the International Geophysical Year, not setting the stage for crewed exploration of other planets, not reducing transport costs. (After 1957, the US presence in Antarctica became permanent, with both scientists and ordinary, working people, like one of my nephew's girl friends, who mostly loaded and unloaded supplies. Now a big issue is Antarctic tourism.) -- Robert J. Chassell Rattlesnake Enterprises http://www.rattlesnake.com GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8 http://www.teak.cc [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bryon Daly wrote: I think Manned Exploration Vehicle would make more sense, but Easterbrook's just nitpicking here. Crewed would be better than Crew. Except Crewed sounds exactly like Crude. Yeah, that's why I went with Manned, instead of Crewed (crude). Using Manned is an open invitation for accusations of sexism, unfortunately. Ah, yes. Forgot about that. _ Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://shopping.msn.com/softcontent/softcontent.aspx?scmId=1418 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Announcing brin-l-books
From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Didn't someone send out a list of 4000 books a few years ago? John Horn? Nope, not me. Someone generated a huge list and several people volunteered to go through them and rate the ones they read. I was one of the volunteers. But as I recall, that was in August of 2001. Then 9/11 happened and all discussions about that list were forgotten. I might still have the list here somewhere... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Ronn!Blankenship No Buck Rogers == no bucks. As someone else here has already said, the taxpayers aren't going to get excited about spending billions just to get a piece of asteroid. Space exploration is probably the best way to inprove our economy. Nearly every industry the US has today owes it's state of existence either to WWII or or the Space Race. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
Nope. If you are insolvent you should not be treated. Open access to emergency medicine is the back door is basically a disguised form of socialized medicine. It forces solvent people to take on your charity case whether they want to or not. On Friday 2004-01-16 07:03, Damon Agretto wrote: No. I have given up on social programs and think the government should spend little or no money on them. I think that if someone with no money shows up in an emergency room they should get no treatment even if this means that the person dies. Wow. So if I get into a car accident, because I don't yet have insurance, and because I'm currently walking the tight rope between solvency and bankruptcy, I should be allowed to die? I hope you were just being sarcastic! Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
--- Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. If you are insolvent you should not be treated. Open access to emergency medicine is the back door is basically a disguised form of socialized medicine. It forces solvent people to take on your charity case whether they want to or not. Well Trent then I guess I won't depend on you should my life ever be threatened. While we're at it, lets get rid of unemployment support, wellfare, and any other government charities since we're being forced to provide for those leeches too... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
On Friday 2004-01-16 13:16, Damon Agretto wrote: --- Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. If you are insolvent you should not be treated. Open access to emergency medicine is the back door is basically a disguised form of socialized medicine. It forces solvent people to take on your charity case whether they want to or not. Well Trent then I guess I won't depend on you should my life ever be threatened. While we're at it, lets get rid of unemployment support, wellfare, and any other government charities since we're being forced to provide for those leeches too... Damon. Yep. If the space-cadets must justify their pet project in objective terms, so must bleeding hearts. The main reason to keep welfare programs is the sentimental belief that we (meaning those lucky -- or moral -- enough to be taxpayers) are morally obliged to take care of all our fellow citizens, or even human beings. I can think of only a few objective reasons why the commonwealth should provide subsidies to ne'er do wells like myself. 1) Public stability requires providing the lumpen with bread and circuses. TV provides cheap circus. The question remains what is the optimally expedient expenditure on bread to maintain political stability and confidence in the status quo. (It also begs the question of what constitutes bread. Americans seem to think that food is bread but housing and medical care dont. In behavioral science terms it is a question of moral economy. There is also related issues like the economic value of keeping homeless folk out of mercantile and 'respectable' neighborhoods.) 2) The economic stabilization that is a side-effect of entitlement programs. 3) Accounting that proves the program is counter-intuitively cost-effective. (Note that in the face of this kind of accounting, eg that providing treatment in prision for alchol and drug addiction is cost effective, conservatives raise moral objections [that we dismiss under this theory of amoral legislation] while libertarians say that surely there are unaddressed strategic costs of codling that result in expensive dependency.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
At 02:49 PM 1/16/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Friday 2004-01-16 13:16, Damon Agretto wrote: --- Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. If you are insolvent you should not be treated. Open access to emergency medicine is the back door is basically a disguised form of socialized medicine. It forces solvent people to take on your charity case whether they want to or not. Well Trent then I guess I won't depend on you should my life ever be threatened. While we're at it, lets get rid of unemployment support, wellfare, and any other government charities since we're being forced to provide for those leeches too... Damon. Yep. If the space-cadets must justify their pet project in objective terms, so must bleeding hearts. The main reason to keep welfare programs is the sentimental belief that we (meaning those lucky -- or moral -- enough to be taxpayers) Why do you believe that being a taxpayer -- by which I am presuming you mean having an income, owning property, etc., so that you are subject to taxation -- is simply a matter of luck? are morally obliged to take care of all our fellow citizens, or even human beings. What does to take care of entail? I can think of only a few objective reasons why the commonwealth should provide subsidies to ne'er do wells like myself. Why do you consider yourself a ne'er do well? I understood from what you said in an earlier post that you have some chronic health problem(s?), and that they may be serious enough that you are disabled, but at least IMO that does not make you or someone else in the same situation a ne'er do well . . . -- Ronn! :) The contents of this message © 2004 by the author. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, redistribution, duplication, forwarding, dissemination, publication, broadcast, transmission or other use of the contents of this message, with or without attribution, with or without this copyright statement, in any form by any means whatsoever is strictly and expressly prohibited. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub + IGC Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrationsagainst Islamization
From: iaamoac [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am starting to think that it might be a full-time job to keep debunking the daily lies spewed forth by The Fool on brin-l. At any rate, The Washington Post reports today that President Bush (whom The Fool disrespects as Shrub) had nothing to do with this law passed by the IGC. Indeed, this law only very narrowly passeg the IGC. Moreover, The Washington Post reports today that the top Bush Administration offical in Iraq, Paul Bremer, is very likely to exercise his oft-criticized authority to veto IGC regulations in this instance, and prevent these laws from taking effect. It's what the original article I pointed to implied, that bremer had allowed this. Since I had only this article and a few people who weblog _from iraq_ writing about it the details were sketchy. The mainstream news ignored this story for days. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
On Thu, Jan 15, 2004 at 08:16:15PM -0800, Doug Pensinger wrote: I'm biased, but I would guess that even an unbiased person would be convinced by Dan's data before they were convinced by your rhetoric. I'll also state for the record that, while we all make mistakes, Dan's data is usually pretty solid, and I can remember a few instances when he was mistaken and owned up to it. I don't think fast-and-loose describes his use of facts at all. I was thinking the same thing myself, but you said it better than I would have. -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... It's too good of a pun to ignore. If our good Dr. Brin didn't plan it from the start, then it beats the record of no one at first recognizing that RU-486 was a bad pun. (Are you for 86ing the fetus?) ... Maybe. I was always more impressed with the coincidence with the number of the processor chip. (And just finished _Darwin's Radio_, which mentions RU-pentium. Groan.) ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
Ronn! wrote: Why do you believe that being a taxpayer -- by which I am presuming you mean having an income, owning property, etc., so that you are subject to taxation -- is simply a matter of luck? Well isn't it at least partly due to luck? If I was born to a crack Mom, I'd say that the cards had been stacked against me, wouldn't you. Now we do live in a society that allows for the possibility that anyone can overcome their bad luck, but that normally takes an extraordinary effort, something alot of us are not capable of. Which is another matter of luck, eh? Or what about homeless Viet Nam vets? The fact that so many of these guys are on the street thirty years after the war suggests to me that they encountered problems that normal people can't easily overcome. All because they happened to be born when there was a draft and had a low lottery number. Hell, if our acting president hadn't been born high and mighty, he'd have probably been a ground pounder then and pushing a shopping cart around today. I'd say luck has a lot to do with it. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
Obviously it is only a start. The converse of No bucks = No Buck Rogers is also true. Open your mind, man. And your heart. Open your eyes, man. And your brain. You're taking the wish for the deed. Bush is infamous for propsing things that sound nice, so he can some nice publicity, and then later, when the cameras are gone, not funding them (remember his AIDS initiative? Remember No Child Left Behind?) This is just More Of The Same. He's not serious. There's no way we can pay for this, given the budget deficits he intentionally engineered SO THAT THERE'D BE NO MONEY TO PAY FOR STUFF LIKE THIS. If you really buy into this, you're being taken. Bush and his people are chortling at your credulity. Man, can you believe they bought this? A-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah! Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
On Friday 2004-01-16 09:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/16/2004 3:04:47 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The book cannot be nothing other than a success. Thereby pissing off all the septs of Jijo. In terms of GIM legal action the point is moot, but the Hoon will NOT be amused when Alvin besmirches their reputation for excellent galactic citizenship. Gillian's report would be enough to do that. First: A year after Streaker gets back to Earth, the book hasn't been published. That fact can't be changed. So I worked with it. It took almost a full year or argument, mostly in secret, to get a judgement from the Galactic Institutes that no action whatsoever will be taken against any race involved with anything that took place on Jijo. The point is mute. No one can go back to Jijo to clean up anything. Only then can the book be printed. And Alvin doesn't care much for standard hoon behavior patterns. But he's much more respectful of them than either Huck or Mudfoot. The former teaching classes and the latter hacking into the Hurumphta press network. Unfortunately, the legal aspect is only half the problem with Alvin's book. The bigger and more intractable problem would be PR. -- Jophur and the like would have strongly *suspected* Humans of founding sooner colonies. Given Human Clans psycho-historical prospects Humans would be idiots not to get themselves some colonies. Alvin gives the Jophur proof. -- Tytlal and Tymbrimi have the same motives as Humans. Now the Galactics need to check every Noor population to make certain it isn't providing cover for a Tytlal crypto-colony. -- Traeki aren't Jophur so they won't be labled a race of sooner scofflaws. But if there is one Traeki colony there might be more. Jophur are not the sort who forgive those who bear bad news. They will hold Hoon collectively responsible because they let Alvin publish his book. -- Glavers, who one surmises are not extinct or retired, will not be amused about having their plot discovered, even if they are doubly protected from GIM prosecution. -- G'kek are extinct, or so everyone thought. So do they have other sooner colonies? If Alvin, that G'kek lover, came back from Jijo did the playboy bring any of those so-and-so Glavers with him? What will do Obeyors do about that? -- Queuens will be embarased when a Hoon reveals their species commited an act of fallow infestation. -- Urs will be embarased when a Hoon reveals their species commited an act of fallow infestation. Worse, Urs would already have been suspected as a species very prone to soonerism because they are so driven to reproduction. -- Hoon will be in tripple jeoprody if Alvin publishes. First they will be embarassed by clear evidence that Hoon committed an act of fallow infestation. Second, the Hoon reputation for being impeccable, responsible Galactic Citizens of the higest probity will be seriously damaged. Accountants do NOT like having their reputation for integrity impeached. Think Arthur Anderson Third, the Galactics practice collective responsibility. None of the embarased races will be happy that a Hoon besimirched their individual reputations. They will be mad at the Hoon, not just Alvin. Moreover, the Obeyor--and especially the Jophur--will insist in no uncertain terms that the Hoon unequivocally demonstrate that they are harboring no G'Kek survivors. Alvin might make as much $ as Rowling but he will get to live like Rushdie--assuming the Hoon don't execute him themselves. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Announcing brin-l-books
On Fri, Jan 16, 2004 at 12:40:48PM -0600, Horn, John wrote: From: Kevin Tarr [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Didn't someone send out a list of 4000 books a few years ago? John Horn? Nope, not me. Someone generated a huge list and several people volunteered to go through them and rate the ones they read. I was one of the volunteers. But as I recall, that was in August of 2001. Then 9/11 happened and all discussions about that list were forgotten. I might still have the list here somewhere... I am the culprit, but it was just a derivative work -- I lifted it from Tristrom Cooke. He hasn't updated it for a while, but it is more up to date than the one I posted so long ago: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/6113/extend14.txt -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Proxima Centauri [was: Tg Territories]
Ronn Blankenship wrote: Ok, the _technical_ names of the stars that make up the Alpha Centauri system are Alpha Centauri A [the Sun-like star], Alpha Centauri B [almost Sun-like, but smaller; it's still in the spectral class that usually is considered fit to have Earth-like planets] and Alpha Centauri C aka Proxima Centauri [a red dwarf, so far away from A and B that we don't know if it's gravitationally bound to them or not. I would guess that it's _not_ bound to them] It does share the proper motion of the AB pair. But this is not enough to prove that it is bound to the AB pair. Do you know if it's bound with _only_ the pertubation of the Galaxy as a whole? [of course, any close encounter with a major star would rip C off that system :-)] Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion
Robert J. Chassell wrote: * An air-augmented chemical rocket. Currently, rockets carry all the oxygen they need with them. An air-augmented chemical rocket operates part of the time as a ram jet, taking in oxygen from the atmosphere. This reduces the mass of oxidizer the rocket must carry. I don't see - philosophically - how this can be an advantage. Ramming air is essentially a collision problem, that significantly reduces the speed of the rocket. If you carry the oxigen with yourself, it is moving with the speed of the rocket. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Tg Territories
Ok, the _technical_ names of the stars that make up the Alpha Centauri system are Alpha Centauri A [the Sun-like star], Alpha Centauri B [almost Sun-like, but smaller; it's still in the spectral class that usually is considered fit to have Earth-like planets] and Alpha Centauri C aka Proxima Centauri [a red dwarf, so far away from A and B that we don't know if it's gravitationally bound to them or not. I would guess that it's _not_ bound to them] The A+B pair is sufficiently far away not to influence the climate, but bright enough to lighten the night sky in such a way that the observation of stars would be difficult [imagine something brighter than the Moon but pointwise like Venus] Alberto Monteiro the creativity challenged How far apart are A and B? Distance of Pluto, more, less? Kevin T. - VRWC Planning a trip ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Shrub + IGC Imposes Islamic Laws in Iraq - Mass Demonstrations against Islamization
In a message dated 1/16/2004 10:55:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bob Z., you asked me a little bit ago to provide you an example of hypocrisy. I believe that I have just done so. Ah but John I asked you explicitly to give an example that was politically neurtral or in which the hypocrisy was by a conservative. You and the fool play your games at talking past each other from the right and the left. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
In a message dated 1/16/2004 5:17:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, the legal aspect is only half the problem with Alvin's book. The bigger and more intractable problem would be PR. -- Jophur and the like would have strongly *suspected* Humans of founding sooner colonies. Given Human Clans psycho-historical prospects Humans would be idiots not to get themselves some colonies. Alvin gives the Jophur proof. Mute point. The Rothen sold them the proof over a year ago. -- Tytlal and Tymbrimi have the same motives as Humans. Now the Galactics need to check every Noor population to make certain it isn't providing cover for a Tytlal crypto-colony. Noor exist elsewhere than Jijo? -- Traeki aren't Jophur so they won't be labled a race of sooner scofflaws. But if there is one Traeki colony there might be more. Jophur are not the sort who forgive those who bear bad news. They will hold Hoon collectively responsible because they let Alvin publish his book. There's been a g'Kek living openly on Hurumphta for a year. How could it get worse? -- Glavers, who one surmises are not extinct or retired, will not be amused about having their plot discovered, even if they are doubly protected from GIM prosecution. Glavers exist outside of Jijo and Galaxy Four? -- G'kek are extinct, or so everyone thought. So do they have other sooner colonies? If Alvin, that G'kek lover, came back from Jijo did the playboy bring any of those so-and-so Glavers with him? I don't think so. If any were left over from the Hydro incedent, they stayed on Streaker. They certainly weren't on Kazkark. What will do Obeyors do about that? Wonder why the Library lied to them? -- Queuens will be embarased when a Hoon reveals their species commited an act of fallow infestation. But take Alvin's money for their artwork/architecture. -- Urs will be embarased when a Hoon reveals their species commited an act of fallow infestation. Worse, Urs would already have been suspected as a species very prone to soonerism because they are so driven to reproduction. Yup. Everyone is at fault. But remember, both the Rothen and the Jophur communicated all of this back to the other four galaxies. Nothing in Alvin's journal is going to give the Civilization of the Four Galaxies any new information. -- Hoon will be in tripple jeoprody if Alvin publishes. First they will be embarassed by clear evidence that Hoon committed an act of fallow infestation. Which the Rothen and Jophur already know. Second, the Hoon reputation for being impeccable, responsible Galactic Citizens of the higest probity will be seriously damaged. And Mudfoot is on a constant campaign to do even more damage. Alvin just wants to go on sailing. Accountants do NOT like having their reputation for integrity impeached. But they do like the idea that no GI is going to set any punishments. Think Arthur Anderson Think Arthur Treacher. The fish are already in the fryer. No need to stick your hand/claw/tenticle/prehensile penis into the vat to try and pull out the pieces. Third, the Galactics practice collective responsibility. None of the embarased races will be happy that a Hoon besimirched their individual reputations. A book, written by a hoon, only adds corroborative detail to what's been bandying about in not so secret secret for a year. The only solution that the Institutes couldd come up with--to prevent open and extensive warfare--was to give up and say nobody can be held accountable for anything. They will be mad at the Hoon, not just Alvin. Moreover, the Obeyor--and especially the Jophur--will insist in no uncertain terms that the Hoon unequivocally demonstrate that they are harboring no G'Kek survivors. Too late. By our good Dr.'s own words, Huck has said, Bring them on. Alvin might make as much $ as Rowling but he will get to live like Rushdie--assuming the Hoon don't execute him themselves. Which hoon. The old guard, or the ever increasing base of those who have gone sailing? Huck's the politico; Alvin just wants to go sailing. Damn but all of these are good questions. And I'm not the only one who should be trying to answer them. Dr. Brin is the one who repeatedly said, in print, that the book was going to be published. I'm not going to try to contradict that statement. It has to be worked with. And silly and strange though some of the workings are, it does work. ...at least on the surface. ;-) William Taylor --- Copy sent to He who sits on high. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
At 01:49 PM 1/16/2004 -0700 Trent Shipley wrote: I can think of only a few objective reasons why the commonwealth should provide subsidies to ne'er do wells like myself. What a Nietschian hell The answer, of course, is that every human life is precious... and indeed, in your ow terms, every human life is a unique resource. Every human life saved has the potential to reap enormous returns. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
At 07:13 PM 1/16/2004 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you really buy into this, you're being taken. Bush and his people are chortling at your credulity. Man, can you believe they bought this? A-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah-hah! Actually, I'm quite sure that Bush is laughing at you. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The Social Contract Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
At 04:09 PM 1/16/2004 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: Well isn't it at least partly due to luck? If I was born to a crack Mom, I'd say that the cards had been stacked against me, wouldn't you. Now we do live in a society that allows for the possibility that anyone can overcome their bad luck, but that normally takes an extraordinary effort, something alot of us are not capable of. Which is another matter of luck, eh? Or consider the following analogy. In the modern world, every human being is born a slave. We are born without access to resources, and yet require resources to meet our basic survival needs of food, water, shelter, and clothing. There is no longer any vast wilderness surplus anyone can wander into to make a sustaining existence. Thus, survival is entirely dependent upon acquiring resources from those who control them. Consider, for example, a deserted island economy after a shipwreck.On the first day, one survivor washes ashore and claims the entire island for himself. On the second day, another survivor comes ashore.In Trent's world, however, the first survivor would have every right to deny the second survivor access to the island's resources - these resources, are, after all, the first's property. Presumably, however, the first survivor could decide to employ the second survivor in developing the island's resources and thus pay the second survivor wages sufficient for sustenance.Or presumably, the first could just decide that it is all too much bother, and allow the second survivor - a ne'er-do-well - to starve.In this way, the second survivor is a slave - he is entirely at the mercy of the first survivor to provide either charity or employment. And such is life in the modern world. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
On Friday 2004-01-16 18:36, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/16/2004 5:17:04 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Unfortunately, the legal aspect is only half the problem with Alvin's book. The bigger and more intractable problem would be PR. -- Jophur and the like would have strongly *suspected* Humans of founding sooner colonies. Given Human Clans psycho-historical prospects Humans would be idiots not to get themselves some colonies. Alvin gives the Jophur proof. Mute point. The Rothen sold them the proof over a year ago. They did? The problem with intelligence sold by the Rothen is that its not usually exactly the sort of thing you can go public with. -- Tytlal and Tymbrimi have the same motives as Humans. Now the Galactics need to check every Noor population to make certain it isn't providing cover for a Tytlal crypto-colony. Noor exist elsewhere than Jijo? I have a distinct recollection that somewhere in the Jijo trilogy we are told that Noor are a common pest throughout known space. Many had looked at uplifting them before the Tymbrimi but decided that Noor were just intractable genetic material. -- Traeki aren't Jophur so they won't be labled a race of sooner scofflaws. But if there is one Traeki colony there might be more. Jophur are not the sort who forgive those who bear bad news. They will hold Hoon collectively responsible because they let Alvin publish his book. There's been a g'Kek living openly on Hurumphta for a year. How could it get worse? I had assumed that she was hardly living openly. Huck would be a s-e-c-r-e-t. -- Glavers, who one surmises are not extinct or retired, will not be amused about having their plot discovered, even if they are doubly protected from GIM prosecution. Glavers exist outside of Jijo and Galaxy Four? It depends. My impression from the Jijo trilogy was that the Glaver colony on Jijo had to devolve to pay off a pending Glaver debt. Meanwhile, Glavers remained Galactic citizens approaching Elder status. The Agents Handbook (which I try to avoid using as a source) says that Glavers suddenly went missing from Galactic society about 1000 years ago, though that's not too unusual. -- G'kek are extinct, or so everyone thought. So do they have other sooner colonies? If Alvin, that G'kek lover, came back from Jijo did the playboy bring any of those so-and-so Glavers with him? I don't think so. If any were left over from the Hydro incedent, they stayed on Streaker. They certainly weren't on Kazkark. Sorry, make that: If Alvin, that G'kek lover, came back from Jijo did the playboy bring any of those so-and-so g'Kek with him? What will do Obeyors do about that? Wonder why the Library lied to them? -- Queuens will be embarased when a Hoon reveals their species commited an act of fallow infestation. But take Alvin's money for their artwork/architecture. Darn tootin'. Business is business. -- Urs will be embarased when a Hoon reveals their species commited an act of fallow infestation. Worse, Urs would already have been suspected as a species very prone to soonerism because they are so driven to reproduction. Yup. Everyone is at fault. But remember, both the Rothen and the Jophur communicated all of this back to the other four galaxies. Nothing in Alvin's journal is going to give the Civilization of the Four Galaxies any new information. I doubt the Rothen blabed this back to Civilization. The last thing they want is someone discovering their gene-raiding activities. That might even lead to Institute detectives taking this Rothen problem seriously. Criminal races DO NOT want publicity. Any info they provide would also be suspect. You might be onto something with the Jophur. I can't remember if any made it back to Civilization with info about Jijo. I think Brin arranged it so they didn't. -- Hoon will be in tripple jeoprody if Alvin publishes. First they will be embarassed by clear evidence that Hoon committed an act of fallow infestation. Which the Rothen and Jophur already know. Rothen reports can be denied. I am not convinced the Jophur do know. Second, the Hoon reputation for being impeccable, responsible Galactic Citizens of the higest probity will be seriously damaged. And Mudfoot is on a constant campaign to do even more damage. Alvin just wants to go on sailing. So? Accountants do NOT like having their reputation for integrity impeached. But they do like the idea that no GI is going to set any punishments. Think Arthur Anderson Think Arthur Treacher. The fish are already in the fryer. No need to stick your hand/claw/tenticle/prehensile penis into the vat to try and pull out the pieces. Third, the Galactics practice collective responsibility. None of the embarased races will be happy that a Hoon
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
On Friday 2004-01-16 18:30, John D. Giorgis wrote: At 01:49 PM 1/16/2004 -0700 Trent Shipley wrote: I can think of only a few objective reasons why the commonwealth should provide subsidies to ne'er do wells like myself. What a Nietschian hell Exactly! Libertarian paradise, Social darwinist hell, same thing. The answer, of course, is that every human life is precious... and indeed, in your ow terms, every human life is a unique resource. Every human life saved has the potential to reap enormous returns. JDG Yes, but in my system an actuary can tell you the odds of realizing a return on that resource and how big the present value of that return is likely to be. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Mars Scorecard
Earth is on a hot streak http://www.bio.aps.anl.gov/~dgore/marsscorecard.html JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 08:16 PM 1/15/2004 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: I'll also state for the record that, while we all make mistakes, Dan's data is usually pretty solid, and I can remember a few instances when he was mistaken and owned up to it. I don't think fast-and-loose describes his use of facts at all. While this may be true in physics, I haven't found that to be so in economics.In particular, Dan has been fond of declaring that economics is not a sciece - largely on his critique that economics cannot produce useful prediction. Yet, this never seems to stop him from using economic data to make predictions that Republicans are horrible for the country in that the produce X effect. Well, you can't have it both ways.You can't continually insist that economis is not a science and does not produce useful predictions, and then insist that it predicts that Republicans are just awful. In addition, many of these predictions play fast and loose with the data. One of the classic ones is to assign the economic peformance of the country in 1980, when Jimmy Carter was President, to Ronald Reagan - never minding that Ronald Reagan's economic policies really couldn't have taken much effect until 1982 at a minimum. This is an egregious and repeated error, which I just simply find to be inexplicable. Likewise, he never connects his analysis to policies, such as, for insistance taking account of the fact that George H. W. Bush raised taxes or that the recession of '81-'82, which was produced in large part by Paul Volcker, is widely considered to have been absolutely necessary for the long-term health of the economy. Lastly, while making these mistakes once might be understandable, they have instead been repeated time and time again and so sometimes i just let my frustration show a little bit too much. And for that I apologize.. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Lies, Deception and Secretiveness (was The GOP Problem With Women)
At 07:51 PM 1/15/2004 -0800 Doug Pensinger wrote: John wrote: JDG - And did I mention that apparently I support lying to and deceiving the American public too? I'm sorry that you took my comments personally. Thank you.For what it is worth, I did not take your comments at all nearly as personally as some of the other ones about conservatives in general which I was responding directly to. Overall, though, this List sometimes seems so solidly left-wing that it is very easy, as a conservative, to feel a bit under-siege around here sometimes but no harshness was intended towards you personally rather I was just intending to make a point about how evilly Republicans/conservatives have been portrayed around here recently. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Social Programs (was: Re: Martian Emotion)
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] At 02:49 PM 1/16/04, Trent Shipley wrote: On Friday 2004-01-16 13:16, Damon Agretto wrote: --- Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. If you are insolvent you should not be treated. Open access to emergency medicine is the back door is basically a disguised form of socialized medicine. It forces solvent people to take on your charity case whether they want to or not. Well Trent then I guess I won't depend on you should my life ever be threatened. While we're at it, lets get rid of unemployment support, wellfare, and any other government charities since we're being forced to provide for those leeches too... Damon. Yep. If the space-cadets must justify their pet project in objective terms, so must bleeding hearts. The main reason to keep welfare programs is the sentimental belief that we (meaning those lucky -- or moral -- enough to be taxpayers) Why do you believe that being a taxpayer -- by which I am presuming you mean having an income, owning property, etc., so that you are subject to taxation -- is simply a matter of luck? It is entirely luck. Allow me to illustrate: I am a genius, more intelligent than over 98% of the world population. I have extencive programming skills, a degree in biology, computer animation skills, the list goes on and on. I, however, am unemployable. Why? I tried to join a branch of the military, but due to a genetic condition I have (kyphosis) which makes my *appearance* unmilitary, they won't have me. I've tried to get jobs in customer service, but, again, due to a genetic condition (autism), I am socially akward, and so, not even considered for such positions. I've tried to find jobs in computers, there is so much competition right now for such jobs, due to the bad job market and greedy corperate outsourcing, that anyone without a Master's degree or a decade of experience is not even considered for such jobs. I've tried to find jobs in biology, but there are no such jobs locally, and any job out of town won't pay enough to afford relocation and to pay off the incredible debt I went into simply trying to get my degree. In essence, I am fucked. Not because of lack of intelligence or skill or education, but due to my circumstances. Is being employed a matter of luck? You're damn right it is. A *lot* of reform is needed, not only in jobs, but in education as well. First, the government should have programs so that anyone who wants a job but is unable to find one will be employed performing valuable services for the country. This can take the place of both the Welfare and unemployment systems currently in place. Companies that outsource work to foriegn nations and/or do mass layoffs can be charged a substancial tax that can provide a good portion of the funding for this. Financial/tax incentives can be offered to companies that hire individuals working on such government work programs to take some of the employment burden away from the government. Second, for people to have equal oppertunity, all state colleges and universities need to be *fully* funded, meaning any citizen that wants an education can do so without going tens of thousands of dollars in debt. My parents, despite earning just slightly above the poverty line and being burdened by my father being very ill and needing extencive medical care, were expected to pay the whole of my college tuition, but because they were unable to, I had to take out extencive student loans to pay for my college... this is a circumstance that I find *totally* unacceptable. Government employment programs (mentioned above) should also work around the student's schedule so that stable employment while attending college is not a difficult thing. People who think that social programs are a waste of taxpayer money have failed to learn from history. The poor overthrowing their own nation's government due to feeling neglected and oppressed is something that has happened repeatedly (The French Revolution, The Russian Revolution, etc.). If poor people feel they have no other choice, and their numbers grow large enough, they will act. I, personally, can not believe that the nation doesn't see a problem in having a bunch of out-of-work, disgruntled, and desperate computer programmers in the country. If skilled, out-of-work programmers formed a rebellion, due to the world-wide dependance on computer and network technologies, they could potentially bring the whole technological world to its knees without firing a single gun-shot (just imagine something like the I Love You virus, but written by a huge team of programmers, with multiple vectors and exploits, and distributed as a coordinated attack, not just a random propagation... a deffinate circumstance that would be devistating, and could be easily avoided by keeping the citizens employed and contented). Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
In a message dated 1/16/2004 7:17:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You might be onto something with the Jophur. I can't remember if any made it back to Civilization with info about Jijo. I think Brin arranged it so they didn't. Harry's ship arrived back on Jijo ahead of the remains of a full Jophur invasion. An invasion force, I had thought, that was called up from the first Jophur to arrive at Jijo. * * * * I know it is within Alvin's character to spend his entire fortune on the Rousit Uplift Ceremony if it would save them from becoming old style hoon clones. I know that given Dr. Brin's tendency to insert a bit of Gilbert Sullivan where possible, Alvin will first produce an all hoon rendition of H.M.S. Pinafore, and then the Mikado as the second play. Mudfoot changes the little list song to include hoon government officials and all hell breaks loose. If a hoon can be written up as wearing full japanese dress, then there has to be a way to get Alvin's book published. Trent, do you at least agree with the idea that books actually published as books have an environmental surtax, and also a higer royalty to the author than a book only published electronically. (It's a fad to read about Jijo by acting as if you were actually on Jijo.) William Taylor --- And hey, Uplift is Space Opera, not hard SF--unless it wants to be hard SF. Everything works backwards from this point. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And it's not as if the West Virginians have the excuse that he was running agaist Edwards, either. hybrid grin-mace Did I mention that my mom (my folks were living in Louisiana at that time) slapped a bumper-sticker on her car that read __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Florida Bar Sells Mailing List of 2500 Lawyers to Neo-Nazis
http://www.nylawyer.com/news/04/01/011504h.html Bar Group Sells Mailing List of Thousands of Lawyers to Neo-Nazis New York Lawyer January 15, 2004 By Julie Kay Miami Daily Business Review The Florida Bar is under fire for selling its mailing list and labels to a neo-Nazi group that sent mailers to thousands of Florida lawyers containing anti-Semitic and racist propaganda. The letter with an eight-page brochure was sent to Florida criminal defense lawyers by the National Alliance, an offshoot of the American Nazi Party, which law enforcement and watchdog groups characterize as a violent, neo-Nazi organization. The mailing contains anti-Semitic cartoons and an article titled Building a New White World, along with a letter calling on attorneys to join their organization. We need legal talent to augment our technical, musical and writing talent, stated the letter, signed by Tampa unit coordinator Todd Weingart. Thats why were writing to you today. Attorneys who received the letter last week were doubly shocked to learn that the Bar sold the organization its mailing list and prepared labels for the group for a fee. The Bar is technically an arm of the Florida Supreme Court and is considered a quasi-public agency. Anyone can obtain names and addresses of lawyers from the Bars Web site. But the Bar also sells mailing lists and prepares labels of attorneys and their addresses for a fee, said Paul Hill, the Bars general counsel. Lawyers throughout the state receive frequent mailings from lawyers announcing new addresses and partnerships and from companies that market products and services to lawyers. Hill said the Bar had no idea it was selling the list to a neo-Nazi group when the National Alliance contracted the Bar to print labels for all 2,500 members of its criminal law section. But even if the Bar had known the nature of the group, it would have had to sell it lists and labels, Hill said. This is a dark side of our public records law, he said. We cant screen the message. We cant be selective its an all-or-nothing proposition. We are trying to explain to everyone sometimes they have to hold their nose or use their trash can. Criminal defense lawyers, public defenders, prosecutors and judges are all members of The Florida Bars criminal law section and received the letters. The charge for labels is 10 cents per name. The National Alliances fee was $262. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hybrid grin-mace Did I mention that my mom (my folks were living in Louisiana at that time) slapped a bumper-sticker on her car that read Well, I don't know what it said, but I'm willing to guess it was some variation of Vote for the Crook! It's Important which, as I recall, was popular at the time. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
FAQ: Bush's New Space Vision
http://www.space.com/news/bush_plan_faq_040115.html#ship President Bush's Jan. 14 speech painted broad brushstrokes of his plan to put humans back on the Moon and send them to Mars. He will depend on NASA and a new commission to sketch in the details. The information below includes the opinions of scientists and space analysts inside and outside NASA. Details attributed to the White House are drawn from internal position papers obtained by Space News and SPACE.com. The Big Questions What will Bush's space vision cost? There is no set price tag. After the shuttle fleet is retired and the space station completed in 2010, about $6 billion of NASA's current annual budget of $15.5 billion will be diverted to the new program. Meanwhile, Bush has asked for an additional $1 billion spread over the next five years. Other funds could come from curtailing other space agency activities, but no details were provided. Can America afford this? That depends of course on whom you ask. Lost in much of the discussion on this point is the fact that America already spends $15.5 billion per year on space exploration, less than 1 percent of the overall federal budget. The vast bulk of the new project's financing, at least over the next decade, will come from shifting some of these funds. The increase Bush asked for amounts to, on average, $200 million per year for each of the next five years. That is a key number that should be considered in any water cooler debates about the merits of space exploration. Critics argue that not enough money will be available to accomplish what Bush envisions. It's never going to happen, said Robert Park, a physicist at the University of Maryland and director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society. The price tag will scare Congress off and the robots are doing so well it's going to be hard to justify sending a human. Other scientists said the gradual approach to increased funding is sensible. I think this is the best thing that has happened to the space program in decades, said Rep. Dave Weldon (R-Fla.), whose district comprises much of Florida's Space Coast. When you really look back over the last 30 years we've had a lack of clarity, purpose and direction. George W. Bush laid out a plan that I think is doable from a financial and political side as well. There's also a lot of wait-and-see. The White House stresses that other NASA programs will be adjusted and better aligned towards long-term exploration. Astronomers are anxious whether any robotic or telescopic missions will suffer. Details will come with the President's 2005 budget, to be submitted to Congress next month. Why not spend this money on social programs instead? That's a philosophical argument that cannot be answered -- or, rather, each person has his or her own answer. Many scientists (and citizens) see space exploration as an important piece of overall federal spending. Others would prefer NASA's budget be capped or cut, though the latter opinion is not often voiced in debates over space spending. Among experts, the debate centers on whether whether robots or humans are more efficient at exploring other worlds. Robert Park, a physicist at the University of Maryland and director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society, estimates robotic exploration costs about 1 percent of the price of sending humans. Ken Edgett, a geologist at Malin Space Science System, uses a robot to explore Mars. He helps operate the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor. The only way we're ever going to understand Mars and its history is to have people there doing the work, Edgett says. Supporters also stress that space exploration inspires the nation, and generates useful medical and industrial spinoff technology. Others see little or no point in human spaceflight, which is more expensive on a per-mission basis, and often these critics instead favor robotic spaceflight and remote observing (as with the Hubble Space Telescope). Will other NASA programs be cut or employees laid off? This remains to be seen. The White House's position is that impact stemming from the Shuttle's retirement and the new focus on exploration will depend on what type of vehicle systems and skills will be needed in the future. It is premature to speculate on specific job impact. In general, the requirements of the new vision will have a very positive impact on the aerospace sector and related sectors, and the vision will help attract talented people to science and engineering fields. Why should humans go to Mars? Because humans need new destinations and ever-expanding horizons. That's one argument. Because only humans can unlock the mysteries of the red planet, including whether it does or ever did harbor life. Because going to Mars will inspire the nation's youth. And because the technology developed along the way will benefit all humanity. Those are the main arguments. Critics don't buy them, of course, at least not if they
Shrub Installs Racist who was VOTED DOWN in the Senate to Appeals Court
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040116/D8044KNG0.html Bush Installs Pickering on Appeals Court Jan 16, 3:32 PM (ET) By TERENCE HUNT WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush bypassed Congress and installed Charles Pickering on the federal appeals court Friday, opening an election-year fight with Democrats who had stalled the nomination for more than two years. Bush installed Pickering by a recess appointment, which avoids the confirmation process. Such appointments are valid until the next Congress takes office, in this case in January 2005. Pickering, a federal trial judge who Bush nominated for a seat on the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans, has been waiting for a confirmation vote in the Senate. I'm grateful to the president for his continued confidence and support, Pickering told The Associated Press from his home in Mississippi. I look forward to serving on the 5th Circuit. Democrats have accused Pickering of supporting segregation as a young man, and pushing anti-abortion and anti-voting rights views as a state lawmaker. They also have said they wouldn't be able to trust him to keep his conservative opinions out of his work on the federal appeals court. The 5th Circuit handles appeals from Mississippi, Texas and Louisiana, and the federal judges on that circuit have been trailblazers on desegregation and voting rights in the past. Pushing for Pickering's confirmation last year, Bush said, He is a good, fair-minded man, and the treatment he has received by a handful of senators is a disgrace. He has wide bipartisan support from those who know him best. - If voting could really change things, it would be illegal. - Diebold Internal Memos ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
Trent, do you at least agree with the idea that books actually published as books have an environmental surtax, and also a higer royalty to the author than a book only published electronically. In our world or in Uplift? (Galactics *ONLY* publish books electronically.) (It's a fad to read about Jijo by acting as if you were actually on Jijo.) It is? Where? When? Who? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan
Actually, I'm quite sure that Bush is laughing at you. Let him. The man's such a worthless buffoon, I take that as a badge of honor. At least he's not fooling ME. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
At 07:00 PM 1/16/2004 -0800 Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And it's not as if the West Virginians have the excuse that he was running agaist Edwards, either. hybrid grin-mace Did I mention that my mom (my folks were living in Louisiana at that time) slapped a bumper-sticker on her car that read Insert joke about illeterate Southerners here JDG :-) ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: The GOP Problem With Women
Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nick Arnett wrote: That makes sense. To what extent do you regard conservatives, as a generalization, as male-dominated? In all honesty none. I can say with a clear conscience that I have never ever made that connection in my mind before. You really aren't familiar with Evangelicals, then. I don't know how many of them told me that women need to obey their husbands. Instead of conservative, if you say fundamentalist, then that accurately denotes a tenet of men first, women second or less -class persons, whether you're referring to Christian, Jewish or Muslim fundamentalists. I think that also goes for Hindu and even Buddhist fundamentalists, but that's not as clear to me as the first three mentioned. Anybody who claims that God has made some people/persons inherently inferior - for whatever reason - belongs to one of the hate-based ist groups: racist, sexist, misogynist etc. etc. Hmm - so does that classify Marxists a subset of atheist fundamentalists? Debbi Flautists And Contortionists Don't Count Maru ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
'Pizza Evangelists' targetting public schools
http://www.au.org/churchstate/04-01-feature1.htm Extreme Evangelism How Fundamentalist Preachers Are Using Pizza, Motorcycles And Even Santa Claus To Convert Public School Students - And What You Can Do About It by Rob Boston Robert J. Marsh was surprised last October to see a notice from a local Baptist curch announcing that a speaker named Ronnie Hill would be visiting public schools in Marion, Ill., to lecture about the dangers of drug and alcohol abuse. To Marsh, something seemed amiss. Why would a church promote a public school event? Another listing in the bulletin gave a clue: Hill, described as an evangelist, would also be in town for a Fall Harvest Renewal at the church. A little research on the Internet soon confirmed Marsh's suspicions. He quickly learned that Hill is a Southern Baptist evangelist who unabashedly talks about the need to preach to public school students. Based in Fort Worth, Texas, Hill travels the nation, and in partnership with fundamentalist churches, offers free anti-drug assemblies to public school audiences. Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded project. - James Madison ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
- Original Message - From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry At 07:00 PM 1/16/2004 -0800 Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And it's not as if the West Virginians have the excuse that he was running agaist Edwards, either. hybrid grin-mace Did I mention that my mom (my folks were living in Louisiana at that time) slapped a bumper-sticker on her car that read Insert joke about illeterate Southerners here And Yankees who can't spell Here G xponent With Frequency Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hoon Leases and Colonies (Was Notes on Uplift)
In a message dated 1/16/2004 8:27:48 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Trent, do you at least agree with the idea that books actually published as books have an environmental surtax, and also a higer royalty to the author than a book only published electronically. In our world or in Uplift? (Galactics *ONLY* publish books electronically.) (If a hoon had a middle finger longer than the other two, Alvin might actually want to give an opinion about following Galactic only-isms.) (It's a fad to read about Jijo by acting as if you were actually on Jijo.) It is? Where? When? Who? Uplift Earth As soon as it's published Anyone who's followed what happened to the Streaker. Anyone who likes reading about aliens behaving more like humans than aliens. Anyone who's interested in embarasing the current hoon government. Left out why. As a plot device to throw Alvin more money. ...and to get people thinking about the future of electronic publishing. There's the old hack story about hiring the homeles to check out library books they never read just to get the author more in royalties. This is fun. William Taylor - It is foolish to talk about the difference between apples and oranges if you're both in the blender at the same time. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Plot to Schism Anglican church
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,1123361,00.html Leaked letters reveal plot to split US church A letter, written within the past fortnight by a senior American dissident pastor to like-minded parishes, details how the dismantling of the US Episcopal church can be achieved. Marked confidential, share it in hard copy only with people you fully trust, do not pass it on electronically to anyone under any circumstances, the document was passed - electronically - to this newspaper. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
How odd! My original message somehow was truncated! Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And it's not as if the West Virginians have the excuse that he was running agaist Edwards, either. hybrid grin-mace Did I mention that my mom (my folks were living in Louisiana at that time) slapped a bumper-sticker on her car that read: Vote For The Crook - It's Important! -and she despised Edwards. That Was Quite Curious! Maru __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Double Standards on Regional Bigotry
--- Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Well, I don't know what it said, but I'm willing to guess it was some variation of Vote for the Crook! It's Important which, as I recall, was popular at the time. Bingo! It's rather grim - or hysterically comical - when your choice for state governor is either a known Mafia-afficienado or a former KKKer... :P Of Course, There's The Porn Star Or The Action-Hero Choice Too Maru ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
Robert J. Chassell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snipping nearly all As for inexpensive earth to orbit travel: there are two obvious ways to achieve this: * A nuclear thermal rocketThe problem with nuclear thermal rockets is two fold. Firstly, the current designs always put some radioactive fission products into the exhaust. The impression I get is that the releases per launch are less than a 1 GW coal-fired electric power station puts into the air (from uranium dust in the coal that goes up the smoke stack). But I don't know. That would depend on how many rockets were launched per year, but I daresay most countries 'downwind' would not be pleased at such 'fallout.' Secondly, some nuclear thermal rockets will crash. That is inevitable, just as some nuclear submarines have sunk. Launch trajectories can be designed so that not too much damage is done by a crash; but people will worry. How confident are you that Russian or Ukrainian built vehicles will safer than the nuclear power station at Chernobol? Not very much, no. * An air-augmented chemical rocketOf course, air-augmented rockets, like current airliners, put water into the stratosphere. Some have argued that this water is or will upset the climate. The US is covered with contrails, which are a visible indicator of such water. And over the past 30 years, people have seen a decrease in the amount of measured sunlight in western Europe. (And maybe elsewhere; I don't know.)... According to an engineer at a solar power station in Arizona, yes: what I was told several years ago [private communication] was a noticable reduction in sunlight intensity reaching the panels. scratches head The number I recall was 40% - which seems quite absurdly high! - so perhaps it was 4%...? Another source of sunlight deflection in southern Arizona would be air pollution; the brown haze over Phoenix and Tucson can be truly appalling. And when I worked in Yuma, when the winds blew from the south during agricultural burning/fertilizing, I could not only feel smell various contaminants, but over the following weeks would see an increase in respiratory complaints in the clinic. Debbi who wants to believe, but doesn't __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Martian Emotion (was Easterbrook on Bush's NASA plan)
Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Trent Shipley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope. If you are insolvent you should not be treated. Open access to emergency medicine is the back door is basically a disguised form of socialized medicine. It forces solvent people to take on your charity case whether they want to or not. Well Trent then I guess I won't depend on you should my life ever be threatened. While we're at it, lets get rid of unemployment support, wellfare, and any other government charities since we're being forced to provide for those leeches too... I think one of the yardsticks of how civilized a culture is can be deduced from how it handles its downtrodden or unfortunate members; if the deformed or mentally retarded or just plain temporarily-overwhelmed are tossed onto the garbage heap, that denotes both a lack of compassion and - from a practical standpoint - definite economic short-sightedness. Frex, a recent list discussion about various gov't. agencies employing mentally retarded persons: those persons are gainfully employed, tend to be loyal and steadfast in repetitive work positions, and would require significant social services if they did not have these jobs. I like Michael's presentation of a sort of revamped CCC, which I think would provide gainful employment, foster pride and self-sufficiency (assuming some training is provided where needed), and help prevent crime such as theft and burglary. I do agree that *creating and maintaining* a perpetually needy population is counter-productive, but helping the momentarily-fallen to regain their feet, and the permanently-disabled to contribute to society somehow, is a worthy endeavor. Debbi Baron Got Up On The Wrong Side Of The Stall Today Maru (fortunately I didn't have to take him out on the trail!) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the Signing Bonus Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Tg Territories
On Friday 2004-01-16 07:49, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Trent Shipley wrote: Good. So you do not care that the Alpha Centuri colony is Class-A, or are you proposing that is it Class-B? It could be anything. Probably a world in _far_ worse shape than any other, but not a dead world like Mars or Venus. Please tell me more about the Alpha Centuri colony -- or at least more about our current knowledge on the Alpha Centuri system. A double-star system, where one is Sunlike, the other smaller than the Sun, but both could have Earth-like planets in the ecologically viable zone. Proxima, the third star, is so far away and so small that it doesn't count. It's going around the Sun-like star. What is the star's name? What is the other part of the double star? Is it close enough to influence climate on our new colony? Ok, the _technical_ names of the stars that make up the Alpha Centauri system are Alpha Centauri A [the Sun-like star], Alpha Centauri B [almost Sun-like, but smaller; it's still in the spectral class that usually is considered fit to have Earth-like planets] and Alpha Centauri C aka Proxima Centauri [a red dwarf, so far away from A and B that we don't know if it's gravitationally bound to them or not. I would guess that it's _not_ bound to them] The A+B pair is sufficiently far away not to influence the climate, but bright enough to lighten the night sky in such a way that the observation of stars would be difficult [imagine something brighter than the Moon but pointwise like Venus] It's your baby. Give it a name -- Portuguese maybe (or nonsense derived from Portuguese). Ah, I don't have enought creativity to make up things! :-) Alberto Monteiro the creativity challenged Fine. But at least pick a class for the lease. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
