Re: MENSA, Schmensa . . .
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: An investigation by Simone Shamay-Tsoory and colleagues shows that the ability to understand sarcasm depends on a carefully orchestrated sequence of complex cognitive skills in specific parts of the brain. _Well, that's just great..._ I thought we smart people decided to keep sarcasm a secret. This could make it much tougher to hide our distaste for the masses when communicating with them... -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ The WorldMaker.Network: Now more Caffeinated! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion and the Democratic Party Re: The American PoliticalLandscape Today
On 5/17/05, JDG [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:00 PM 5/17/2005 -0500, Gary Denton wrote: snip I suspect is because it was part of that media drumbeat that pro-life people can't be heard in the Democratic party. I would hope that even you would agree that the failure to let PA Governor Bob Casey speak at the Democratic National Convention played some role in the Democratic Party deserving that storyline. You snipped out the real reason he wasn't allowed to speak which had nothing to do with abortion. On TV and national media he had waged a campaign to stop Clinton from getting the nomination saying he wasn't fit to be president. Unless their is a public repudiation of those interviews no party is going to allow that kind of speaker on the platform. Again, not saying its right or wrong - but again identifying the CW. And the fact that: a) Harry Reid is somehow considered to be a pro-life Senator in the Democratic Party (compare his deviation from the Democratic mean vs. pro-choice Republican Senators' deviation from the mean.) b) Harry Reid is about the only pro-life speaker at a Democratic Convention in a long, long time But I did notice that you didn't have a sharp rebuttal for the above. Sorry, been busy... You think Reid is not a pro-life Senator? Rush Limbaugh disagreed. Reid, too, opposes abortion and once voted for a nonbinding resolution opposing Roe vs. Wade. The real problem is that the real leadership of the parties has been driven to extremes by what each side sees as the others extremism. Also the GOP is doing its best to get rid of those national moderate members within their party. What's unusual about the politics of abortion compared to other political issues is that the parties have taken pretty extreme positions compared to the public, says Clyde Wilcox, a Georgetown University professor and co-author of Between Two Absolutes: Public Opinion and the Politics of Abortion. An awful lot of people think the answer to (a question about access to) abortion is 'it depends.' I don't feel that in our state it is viewed as a black-or-white situation, says Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a Democrat who supports abortion rights. People see it in shades of gray. In a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken in March, a 55% majority took some middle ground on abortion rights -- either supporting them with exceptions or opposing them with exceptions. Most Republicans and most Democrats take positions at odds with their party's platform. More than six in 10 Democrats would outlaw abortion in some cases; more than seven in 10 Republicans would allow abortion in some cases. Dan has said he is not opposed to a morning after pill and doubts that your position is very far from his. He also seems to want to draw the line, recognizing the child as a human whose death should be classified as murder, soon after conception. I do not support abortions after viability of the fetus except to protect the health and life of the mother and suggest that doctors are best qualified to make those calls. These are opposing positions but mine is not that of a nasty liberal Democrat who will let a mother do whatever she wants to her unborn child. The argument that you and Dan seemed to want to try to make was that Democrats, those nasty baby-killers, want abortions to take place right up to giving birth. Y'all were called on it. It was a somewhat natural position for you to take as the GOP has shaped the argument that way in the bills they devise and the attention and language they bring to the wedge issues they raise. -- Gary really should be in bed Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Its one thing to put your faith in a religion founded by a real person who claimed divine revelation, but its something else entirely to have, as the scripture of your religion, a storyline that you know was made up by a very nonprophetic human being. Its a terrible thing, I suppose, for a writer to invent a religion and then discover that he and all his friends are on the wrong side of it. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/167/story_16700_1.html ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: MENSA, Schmensa . . .
On May 23, 2005, at 10:17 PM, Max Battcher wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: An investigation by Simone Shamay-Tsoory and colleagues shows that the ability to understand sarcasm depends on a carefully orchestrated sequence of complex cognitive skills in specific parts of the brain. _Well, that's just great..._ I thought we smart people decided to keep sarcasm a secret. This could make it much tougher to hide our distaste for the masses when communicating with them... No, we're still okay. The report, after all, suggests that to get sarcasm, you have to be possessed of subtle reasoning processes. Over a decade ago I got into a bizarre discussion with someone who was convinced that the Freemasons were running the show. Remembering my Illuminatus, I said I'd seen such stories before in the SF section of the bookshop. This guy didn't blink, didn't bat an eye; just said something like, Yeah, the only way to get the truth out is to disguise it as fiction... Believe me, we're very, very, frustratingly, annoyingly safe in our employ of sarcasm. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 1:37 AM, David Land wrote: Its one thing to put your faith in a religion founded by a real person who claimed divine revelation, but its something else entirely to have, as the scripture of your religion, a storyline that you know was made up by a very nonprophetic human being. Its a terrible thing, I suppose, for a writer to invent a religion and then discover that he and all his friends are on the wrong side of it. http://www.beliefnet.com/story/167/story_16700_1.html Heh, quoth the Card: As a religion, the Force is just the sort of thing youd expect a liberal-minded teenage kid to invent. As opposed to Mormonism, which was invented by a conservative-minded teenaged kid, and therefore is True. OSC has absolutely no business critiquing anyone else's religion or philosophy. Not when he believes in golden plates translated by dint of magic goggles. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: Heh, quoth the Card: As a religion, the Force is just the sort of thing youd expect a liberal-minded teenage kid to invent. As opposed to Mormonism, which was invented by a conservative-minded teenaged kid, and therefore is True. OSC has absolutely no business critiquing anyone else's religion or philosophy. Not when he believes in golden plates translated by dint of magic goggles. Let us not disrespect one anothers' pink unicorns. There are Mormons on our list, and I credit a Mormon girlfriend back in the '80s for helping me find my own vision of God. I think Mr. Card's main point was that Mormonism (as well as, I suppose, Islam, Christianity, et al) was at least intended to be taken seriously as a religion by Jos. Smith, while Jedism is just another sci-fi plot device gone horribly, horribly wrong. Dave In IDIC We Trust Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
In a message dated 5/24/2005 10:08:59 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Warren Ockrassa wrote: OSC has absolutely no business critiquing anyone else's religion or philosophy. Yeah. And he never explained why he gave Columbus a telescope, as well. Vilyehm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Dave Land wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: Heh, quoth the Card: As a religion, the Force is just the sort of thing youd expect a liberal-minded teenage kid to invent. As opposed to Mormonism, which was invented by a conservative-minded teenaged kid, and therefore is True. OSC has absolutely no business critiquing anyone else's religion or philosophy. Not when he believes in golden plates translated by dint of magic goggles. Let us not disrespect one anothers' pink unicorns. There are Mormons on our list, and I credit a Mormon girlfriend back in the '80s for helping me find my own vision of God. The point wasn't to vilify Mormons. The point was that Card is not qualified to play pot-and-kettle. Pretty much all religious thought has at its core some suppositions and assumptions that can look -- well, silly. It seems to me that someone who aligns with a faith developed in the 1800s by a teenager really isn't in a position to criticize the choices of others who want a more relativistic outlook. Unfortunately three pages of ranting almost totally overshadow the significance of the final graf, which poses a very interesting question. Put another way, Card was disrespecting others' pink unicorns; I was just pointing out he ain't wearin' no clothes. I think Mr. Card's main point was that Mormonism (as well as, I suppose, Islam, Christianity, et al) was at least intended to be taken seriously as a religion by Jos. Smith, while Jedism is just another sci-fi plot device gone horribly, horribly wrong. Um, well, how seriously it was meant to be taken is also in doubt, or I think it is anyway. I half suspect it was meant as seriously as Scientology, FWIW. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
I think Mr. Card's main point was that Mormonism (as well as, I suppose, Islam, Christianity, et al) was at least intended to be taken seriously as a religion by Jos. Smith, while Jedism is just another sci-fi plot device gone horribly, horribly wrong. I think Orson missed the boat on the whole Jedi religion thing... Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: Ertl's TIE Fighter -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.12 - Release Date: 5/17/2005 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 10:47 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Dave Land wrote: I think Mr. Card's main point was that Mormonism (as well as, I suppose, Islam, Christianity, et al) was at least intended to be taken seriously as a religion by Jos. Smith, while Jedism is just another sci-fi plot device gone horribly, horribly wrong. Um, well, how seriously it was meant to be taken is also in doubt, or I think it is anyway. I half suspect it was meant as seriously as Scientology, FWIW. Right after I decided that I wasn't going to choose my relationship with God based on my feelings for a cute blonde from New Jersey, I went through a fairly strong anti-Mormon period. I was kind of an ass, really. I recall seeing some suggestions that Joseph Smith's writings were more or less science fiction, and that some others decided to turn it into a religion, but I had largely discounted it as just so much more Mormon-bashing. Anyway, your pot-kettle comparison is apt. If Mr. Card was the Right Rev. Orson Scott Card of the Foursquare Gospel Church of the Five-Syllable Je-hee-huh-sus-uh or Father Orson at Our Lady of Perpetual Emotion, your comments would be equally on the mark. It was in that spirit that I rushed to the defense of Mr. Card's particular shade of Pink Unicorns -- as a God-guy myself, I'm not in a position to ridicule others' faiths. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Warren, do you have a lightsaber? I am Mark - Original Message - From: Warren Ockrassa To: Killer Bs Discussion Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:30 AM Subject: Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas... Heh, quoth the Card: As a religion, the Force is just the sort of thing youd expect a liberal-minded teenage kid to invent. As opposed to Mormonism, which was invented by a conservative-minded teenaged kid, and therefore is True. OSC has absolutely no business critiquing anyone else's religion or philosophy. Not when he believes in golden plates translated by dint of magic goggles. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Dave Land wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 10:47 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 10:07 AM, Dave Land wrote: I think Mr. Card's main point was that Mormonism (as well as, I suppose, Islam, Christianity, et al) was at least intended to be taken seriously as a religion by Jos. Smith, while Jedism is just another sci-fi plot device gone horribly, horribly wrong. Um, well, how seriously it was meant to be taken is also in doubt, or I think it is anyway. I half suspect it was meant as seriously as Scientology, FWIW. Right after I decided that I wasn't going to choose my relationship with God based on my feelings for a cute blonde from New Jersey, I went through a fairly strong anti-Mormon period. I was kind of an ass, really. I recall seeing some suggestions that Joseph Smith's writings were more or less science fiction, and that some others decided to turn it into a religion, but I had largely discounted it as just so much more Mormon-bashing. That wasn't exactly what I was thinking of -- Harlan Ellison has stated that he was around when Hubbard first came up with the idea of Scientology, that the man wanted to come up with an SF-based church as a kind of joke-cum-social experiment. Ellison apparently kept waiting for the shoe to drop. It didn't. Hubbard either got sucked into his own theology or became so enamored of the money and power that he refused to admit the lie. Years later he stuck by his religion, for whatever that might be worth. My thinking is that Smith -- if he wasn't just fantasy prone and charismatic enough to convince others to follow along -- did something somewhat similar, inventing a religion, then loving the power of it. Of course he was shot, which might suggest he wasn't actually planning things to happen as they did, which might indicate it's the first explanation that's more likely. (I know there's another explanation, of course. I don't buy that one either, even though it made perfect sense to me when I was twelve.) Anyway, your pot-kettle comparison is apt. If Mr. Card was the Right Rev. Orson Scott Card of the Foursquare Gospel Church of the Five-Syllable Je-hee-huh-sus-uh or Father Orson at Our Lady of Perpetual Emotion, your comments would be equally on the mark. It was in that spirit that I rushed to the defense of Mr. Card's particular shade of Pink Unicorns -- as a God-guy myself, I'm not in a position to ridicule others' faiths. Oh, he can have his unicorns, that's fine. Anyone can. It's when those unicorns start trying to gnaw my patch of sward that I get huffy, or of course when someone says someone else's unicorns is tha' wrong culla. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Mark wrote: Warren, do you have a lightsaber? Let's see ... no, though I've got an old Darth Vader helmet, a more or less complete collection of the smaller-version TIE toys (fighter, bomber, advanced, etc.), several Eagles from Space: 1999 (Dinky versions) and TOS and TNG version tricorders. I think about the only way I'd want a lightsaber would be if it was a *working* one. That would be tha' shizznit. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion Case Heads to the Supreme Court
On May 23, 2005, at 6:05 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: John D. Giorgis wrote: In light of our recent abortion discussion, I'm wondering what some of the Brin-L'ers here think of the NH law requiring that parents of a minor be notified 48 hours before an abortion.Should this law contain an exception if the health of the minor is at risk? Perhaps not, but there should be an exception if the father of the fetus is a family member (incest/rape). The intersection of the subjects of abortion and incest is a pretty sick neighborhood. [...] Yes -- once again there are exceptions which suggest that laws, which can't be created in such a way as to take into account all exceptions, can in enough circumstances cause sufficient suffering to lead to the conclusion that it would be best to eliminate the law in question rather than rewrite it. Or, better still, not make the law in the first place. There's a hell of a lot of heavy-handed moral authoritarianism in some US laws. Ludicrous penalties for pot possession come immediately to mind. We get insipid commercials with young adults prating about how drugs destroyed someone's future -- the self-righteous asses who make these ads refuse to admit that it's the *penalty* under *law* that destroys the future of a drug user, not the drug itself. I sense a similar trend with abortion legislation. The best, the very best course of action to take is to keep the legislators the fuck out of the gynecologists' offices entirely. Any step toward regulation is likely to inflate rapidly and hand down endless and pointless misery on the heads of complete innocents. I like to think the world is moving away from situations that allow this kind of child abuse to occur. I'm probably wrong. It's being forced under wraps, I think. That makes it *more* dangerous and *more* toxic. The consideration of this subject causes some internal turmoil for me. On one hand I feel that kids like those I knew should never have been born. On the other, I feel some guilt because I am condoning the killing of innocents. And guilt again because I feel that those kids were something less than human in ways that I recognise in every other person I have known. And it is these very thorny issues that I simply cannot accept are reconcilable with something so facile as judicial fiat. A simple definition of human does not exist, human rights are extremely plastic terms of convenience -- nothing more -- and one man's murder is another man's abortion of a child of incest. There is no way that any kind of law can ever be written to deal with these kinds of issues. Which suggests to me that trying to develop such a law is an exercise in hubris and, ultimately, futility. While we're at it let's make it illegal to be stupid. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
d.brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sniplets only For Eps I II I was very mild mannered. I urged people to go matineee after waiting 2 weeks... but otherwise enjoy the crap because it's GORGEOUS crap. Lucas subsidizes 10% of the best artists on the planet. This time tho... I just can't do it gah! It's like he wants us to not only worship a nazi mass murderer, but also evil green oven mitts... while losing all hope. feh. I thought Himself's previous rants about Yoda were over-the-top...then I saw EpII (which I hadn't bothered to see at all until it came on TV this past weekend, b/c I detested EpI so very much). Ugh. Nasty, tricksome stealer of one's precious [mother, in Anny's case]! I wanted to smack Amidala (shades of a RL older woman marrying a boy), shove Anakin out the nearest airlock at the next whine (Luke's early whining was funny, and then he wised up), and force Obiwan to listen to his mouthings on continuous loop tape... Unless others think ROTS is worth seeing in the ($2) theater, I'll pass on this one. Debbi Please Find Some Real Dialogue Maru:P __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Rational atheism?
Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip ... But of course there are some things that are beyond the possibility of proof as well. So while I'd lean on the not I'd also have to include the probably as opposed to absolutely. Bleh. Heresies of any kind are sometimes so complicated... Yeah, well, it's *your* fault that I've had to change my favorite sig, so just quit yer belly-achin'! Debbi Heretic Lutheran Gaeian-Deist ;) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On 5/24/05, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 9:30 AM, Warren Ockrassa wrote: Heh, quoth the Card: As a religion, the Force is just the sort of thing you'd expect a liberal-minded teenage kid to invent. As opposed to Mormonism, which was invented by a conservative-minded teenaged kid, and therefore is True. OSC has absolutely no business critiquing anyone else's religion or philosophy. Not when he believes in golden plates translated by dint of magic goggles. Let us not disrespect one anothers' pink unicorns. There are Mormons on our list, and I credit a Mormon girlfriend back in the '80s for helping me find my own vision of God. My shrine to Buffy and Willow is helping me process all my billions of past lives. Fictionology is nor just for former Scientologists. Scientology can only offer data, such as how an Operating Thetan can control matter, energy, space, and time with pure thought alone. Truly spiritual people don't care about data, especially those seeking an escape from very real physical, mental, or emotional problems. -- Gary Denton Easter Lemming Blogs http://elemming.blogspot.com http://elemming2.blogspot.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion Case Heads to the Supreme Court
From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes -- once again there are exceptions which suggest that laws, which can't be created in such a way as to take into account all exceptions, can in enough circumstances cause sufficient suffering to lead to the conclusion that it would be best to eliminate the law in question rather than rewrite it. Or, better still, not make the law in the first place. That's what judges used to be for, until the feds started making them toe some sort of line. I like to think the world is moving away from situations that allow this kind of child abuse to occur. I'm probably wrong. It's being forced under wraps, I think. That makes it *more* dangerous and *more* toxic. I think it used to be much further under wraps in midcentury than it is now. Today's willingness to speak up about such things has helped enormously. The consideration of this subject causes some internal turmoil for me. On one hand I feel that kids like those I knew should never have been born. On the other, I feel some guilt because I am condoning the killing of innocents. And guilt again because I feel that those kids were something less than human in ways that I recognise in every other person I have known. This reminds me of something written at then end of an essay back in the 1930s - Dion Fortune was trying to understand why she was suddenly seeing young people who fit that description among her social circles. Her tentative verdict on the kids - that they were not fully human, but rather some sort of elemental. She added for what it's worth ... of the ones [I forget how many she said] whose circumstances of conception I know, their mothers were drunk at the time. Aha! Run the ago of the kids against the start of Prohibition and the light dawns. Fetal alcohol syndrome. I wonder if that was going on here, as well? And it is these very thorny issues that I simply cannot accept are reconcilable with something so facile as judicial fiat. A simple definition of human does not exist, human rights are extremely plastic terms of convenience -- nothing more -- and one man's murder is another man's abortion of a child of incest. Man's?!?!?!?! There is no way that any kind of law can ever be written to deal with these kinds of issues. There is, but it can't deal in absolutes and excluded middles. Just my $0.02 Pat ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
appealing to old style conservatives
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This story was sent to you by: Nick Arnett Related to DB's stories of officers being purged... Officers Plot Exit Strategy. This is just one example of how obstinate conservatives can be. Where, exactly, is the mental ability to grasp that times have changed? If the Old South can switch from solid Democrat to Solid Republican, is it possible to perceive that other things have changed, as well? For example, that Bill Clinton's record was not just weirdly better - by classic CONSERVATIVE values - but diametrically opposite to George Bush's when it comes to: deficit spending paying off the national debt promoting small business investing in research and conservation to reduce dependence on foreign oil increasing (rather than demolishing) military readiness reducing the actual number of non defense federal employees (for the 1st time since 1912) reducing the number of words in federal law (the 1st time ever) increasing transparency and accountability in government, rather than creating a tower of accelerating secrecy winning foreign wars based upon competence, quickness and overwhelming power, with an exit strategy and smooth transfer of responsibility to allies avoiding unilateralism in favor of promoting overseas friendships and alliances that increase our influence in ways other than force appointment of moderate constructionalists to judicial positions based on recommendations by bipartisan panels of distinuished jurists and not based upon political connections or radical beliefs protecting the political independence of the US Officer Corps and respecting their expertise in war planning encouraging input from science at all levels while financing vigorous research to give underpinnings to policy (e.g. Climate Change, strategic defense, science education, energy policy) I could go on and on... But the significant point here is that these are all good old fashioned conservative positions that Barry Goldwater and Eisenhower would have had no trouble with. Now throw in moderate consensus matters like separating of church state etc... ...and can somebody please parse this out for me? What will it take for basic human pattern recognition to take over from reflex my side, right or wrong partisonship? Ah, but the left is just as bad. Their complete inability to ADDRESS AND EXPLOIT these betrayals of conservatism shows that many liberals are similarly blinkered, blinded and hobbled by archaic dichotomies and ties to the past. They are just as addicted to sanctimony over practicality. Culture war over negotiation and persuasion. We modernists and moderates have nowhere to turn. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/24/05, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Let us not disrespect one anothers' pink unicorns. winces Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! My shrine to Buffy and Willow is helping me process all my billions of past lives. How I long for a return of the Buffyverse -- ScoobyGang, where _are_ you? Fictionology is nor just for former Scientologists. Of course, there are really stoopid Fictionologists whose personal daemons are Speed Racer, Underdog or Luke Duke; yet I suppose that they must be tolerated - after all, they are human in somebody's definology. Debbi Leaping Into The Mach V Maru ;) __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Just call me Grampa
Doug Pensinger wrote: As of 5:25 or so this morning. My daughter gave birth to a healthy baby boy, 7 lb 4 oz., 20.5 in. Huzzah! And many happy evenings of plotting creative ways to spoil* him. *only just a little...:) Debbi Good News Maru __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
[Health] Kudzu to reduce beer-drinking?
That pesky vine might become a frat boy's best
friend...
(There have been several recent alcohol-overdose
deaths here in CO colleges; not sure what if any
legislation has been passed about the problem, but new
laws/regulations have been proposed {at least one
unworkable}.)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7884540/
...Lukas team at Harvard-affiliated McLean Hospital
set up a makeshift apartment in a laboratory,
complete with a television, reclining chair and a
refrigerator stocked with beer.
Findings show that subjects who took kudzu drank an
average of 1.8 beers per session, compared with the
3.5 beers consumed by those who took a placebo.
Lukas was not certain why but speculated that kudzu
increases blood alcohol levels and speeds up its
effects. More simply put, the subjects needed fewer
beers to feel drunk...
[DH] So problems with driving/judgement error might
not be reduced, but toxicity-induced deaths could be-
Debbi
whose preferred mood-altering drug is dark chocolate
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[Listref] Truth in research publishing
This is the second editor from the NEJM to call for increased transparency from drug companies WRT research/studies (A former editor did the same last year, IIRC.) [This website is based in the 'Research Triangle' of NC.] http://www.wral.com/aphealthandwellnewsnews/4521886/detail.html Pfizer Inc., GlaxoSmithKline PLC. and Merck Co. are making a mockery of efforts to create more transparency in drug clinical trials, according to a prominent medical journal editor. Dr. Jeffrey M. Drazen, editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, said the companies are not providing enough useful details in their posting on a government trial registry and that their reluctance to provide meaningful information may hamper their ability to have their studies published in important medical publications... ...Drazen based his comments on a review of the information drug companies posted on www.clinicaltrials.gov., which is run by the U.S. National Institutes of Health. He said the review was conducted by Dr. Deborah Zarin of the NIH at the request of the committee. They (the three companies) are giving nonsense details, Drazen said in an interview on Monday. They are written in a way that they are trying to hide what they are doing. ...The editors created the policy after some drug companies were accused of stifling negative data from clinical trials... ...Zarin said first she looked at whether pharmaceutical companies were giving drugs a distinguishable name. She said a name is crucial because it allows editors, patients and doctors to track a medicine's progress through the trial process.. ...Of the over 400 companies with trials listed on the registry, only 5 neglected to list specific names, often calling the products simply investigational drug, Zarin said. Zarin said that 90 percent of the time Merck didn't provide a name. Glaxo didn't provide a name 53 percent of the time while Pfizer lacked a name 36 percent of the time. The other two companies were Eli Lilly Co. and Bristol-Myers Squibb Co. but they lacked names less than 5 percent of the time... ...Drazen said that Lilly and Abbott Laboratories are 90 percent in compliance with what the editors are expecting. Zarin gave high marks to Novartis for the quality of its disclosures... ...Drazen said that if the companies don't comply, editors will refuse to publish their studies. He said that other medical journals had adopted the registry standards of the international committee so companies that don't comply may find their choice of publication venues is limited... Article from Businessweek (not as detailed): http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8A95F601.htm?campaign_id=apn_home_down From last fall: http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/13/41457eb5b032f Eleven of the worlds top medical journals are making the reporting of all clinical trial results a condition of publication in an attempt to remedy concerns about the selective disclosure of experimental data by pharmaceutical companies. The members of the International Council of Medical Journal Editors announced Wednesday that they would publish reports only if the results of those trials are registered in an online database, www.clinical trials.gov, which is run by the National Library of Medicine. This proposition has received much federal support and members of Congress intend to introduce legislation in the near future that will prevent pharmaceutical companies from withholding unfavorable information about their products... ...Academics also agree on the pressing need for increased transparency in the pharmaceutical world. We only know what works, but what doesnt work is just as important, said Elizabeth Vigdor, assistant professor of public policy. Only printing what the pharmaceutical companies want creates a publication bias and we should put research into perspective. Pharmaceutical companies, including Eli Lilly, Forest Laboratories, GlaxoSmithKline and Merck, have reacted strongly and have offered counter-proposals such as optional registration, but Curfman and the other editors will not accept such propositions... ...It is difficult for people to understand the true complexity of these data setswe want fair presentation but in a journal only a very small data sample is scrutinized and published, he [David Pisetsky, editor of Arthritis Rheumatism] said. It requires an extraordinary time commitment to look at these data sets and protocols, which is only possible for large medical journals like the Journal of the American Medical Association, the New England Journal of Medicine and The Lancetthree of the big supporters of this decision. Smaller journals, including Pisetskys, rely on volunteer reviewers and do not have a full-time staff. It will be very difficult to get people to analyze all this highly sophisticated data that would now be required, he said. I just dont think this is necessarily the best way to accomplish this.
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Deborah Harrell wrote: Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! How about heliotrope? Or maybe fuschia? Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Jim Sharkey wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! How about heliotrope? Or maybe fuschia? Open wide and say Aaaavacado xponent Flora Colors Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Robert Seeberger wrote: Jim Sharkey wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! How about heliotrope? Or maybe fuschia? Open wide and say Aaaavacado No, I prefer periwinkle. Now *THERE'S* one manly color! Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
At 02:31 PM Tuesday 5/24/2005, Mark wrote: Warren, do you have a lightsaber? I am Mark You am a lightsaber? -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
At 04:22 PM Tuesday 5/24/2005, Deborah Harrell wrote: Gary Denton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 5/24/05, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Let us not disrespect one anothers' pink unicorns. winces Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! My shrine to Buffy and Willow is helping me process all my billions of past lives. How I long for a return of the Buffyverse -- ScoobyGang, where _are_ you? Fictionology is nor just for former Scientologists. Of course, there are really stoopid Fictionologists whose personal daemons are Speed Racer, Underdog or Luke Duke; yet I suppose that they must be tolerated - after all, they are human in somebody's definology. Calling Underdog human would seem to be stretching the definology . . . Not Plane Nor Bird Nor Even Frog Either Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Health] Kudzu to reduce beer-drinking?
At 05:19 PM Tuesday 5/24/2005, Deborah Harrell wrote: That pesky vine might become a frat boy's best friend... By planting one next to a coed's bed. Clinging Vine Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Jim Sharkey wrote: Robert Seeberger wrote: Jim Sharkey wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! How about heliotrope? Or maybe fuschia? Open wide and say Aaaavacado No, I prefer periwinkle. Now *THERE'S* one manly color! Real men prefer pimpernel. xponent The Scarlet One Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin: Re: appealing to old style conservatives
At 02:07 PM 5/24/2005 -0700, Dr. Brin wrote: For example, that Bill Clinton's record was not just weirdly better - by classic CONSERVATIVE values - but diametrically opposite to George Bush's when it comes to: Your list would be far more persuasive if you had some outside definition of classic conservative values, rather than just your say-so. Instead, it seems like you are defining classic conservatism as political positions favored by David Brin, which is wholly unconvincing. [reducing] deficit spending paying off the national debt Of course, Bill Clinton's record on these things is only possible thanks to the efforts of Republicans like Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm.If Bill Clinton's actual policies had been enacted over Republican opposition, this would not be the case. In other words, the above are as much Republican achievments of the 90's as they are Democratic achievments of the 90's. promoting small business Not sure what you are referring to here, or why government promotion of small business is classic conservatism? investing in research and conservation to reduce dependence on foreign oil This is classic conservatism, how? Actually, President Bush has proposed substantial increases in research on fuel cell technology. increasing (rather than demolishing) military readiness This is curious, since during the Kosovo War, I believe that the US military came within a few weeks of running out of cruise missiles.Bill Clinton's defense cuts (which made a great deal of your first two points possible as well), did not exactly leave the US military in the high state of readiness you portray it. reducing the actual number of non defense federal employees (for the 1st time since 1912) Of course, a large part of the increase in non-defense federal employees came from the nationalization of the air screeners industry, which is hardly a Bush proposal. reducing the number of words in federal law (the 1st time ever) Do you have a cite for that? winning foreign wars based upon competence, quickness and overwhelming power, with an exit strategy and smooth transfer of responsibility to allies This is classic conservatism, how? Based on what? And in any case, the transfer of responsibility to the allies has been occuring under Bush, not Clinton. avoiding unilateralism in favor of promoting overseas friendships and alliances that increase our influence in ways other than force This is classic conservatism, how?Is this what Barry Goldwater ran on in '64? appointment of moderate constructionalists to judicial positions based on recommendations by bipartisan panels of distinuished jurists and not based upon political connections or radical beliefs This is classic conservatism how? And in any case, aren't several of Bush's currently filibuster nominees recipients of highly qualified ratings from the liberal American Bar Association? But the significant point here is that these are all good old fashioned conservative positions that Barry Goldwater and Eisenhower would have had no trouble with. Now throw in moderate consensus matters like separating of church state etc... Out of curiosity, when did Eisenhower become a conservative?I don't think that he was exactly a devotee of the likes of Bill Buckley back in the day JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion Case Heads to the Supreme Court
On May 24, 2005, at 1:13 PM, PAT MATHEWS wrote: From: Warren Ockrassa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes -- once again there are exceptions which suggest that laws, which can't be created in such a way as to take into account all exceptions, can in enough circumstances cause sufficient suffering to lead to the conclusion that it would be best to eliminate the law in question rather than rewrite it. Or, better still, not make the law in the first place. That's what judges used to be for, until the feds started making them toe some sort of line. Heh heh. Is that really so new, though? The toe the line part I mean. I haven't been actively conscious of Supreme Court and other nominees for more than about a quarter century, and based on that I can't really judge history's facts, of course. I would be very surprised, however, to learn that this is a comparatively recent trend. [Robert here] I like to think the world is moving away from situations that allow this kind of child abuse to occur. I'm probably wrong. It's being forced under wraps, I think. That makes it *more* dangerous and *more* toxic. I think it used to be much further under wraps in midcentury than it is now. Today's willingness to speak up about such things has helped enormously. Well, except in cases where false accusations are made and the innocent are pilloried, or cases where -- if there's a risk a kid might talk -- murder is done to keep witnesses silent. The whole issue is just ugly and ... well, horrible. Though on reflection, yeah, it does seem like there's more willingness to investigate, to prosecute, to attempt to address pain and heal minds. That's definitely an improvement. And it is these very thorny issues that I simply cannot accept are reconcilable with something so facile as judicial fiat. A simple definition of human does not exist, human rights are extremely plastic terms of convenience -- nothing more -- and one man's murder is another man's abortion of a child of incest. Man's?!?!?!?! Or woman's, yes. I'm kind of a stickler about some things. I know English can be seen as inherently sexist in dealing with impersonal pronouns, but that's the way the language is constructed. So if the alternative is either to use a grammatically incorrect word (their or the ghastly hir in place of his, f'rinstance), or a tortuous formulation that is inclusive but too wordy (his/her), I'll probably go with the impersonal pronoun. Surely you know I was paraphrasing the old saw One man's meat... There is no way that any kind of law can ever be written to deal with these kinds of issues. There is, but it can't deal in absolutes and excluded middles. Right -- I think that's what I was suggesting. It can't be inclusive, it can't handle exceptions, and it would -- I think -- exacerbate suffering. Not much of an argument in favor of trying to produce any such law. :\ -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Re: appealing to old style conservatives
On Tue, 24 May 2005 21:34:54 -0400, JDG wrote: ... Of course, Bill Clinton's record on these things is only possible thanks to the efforts of Republicans like Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm.If Bill Clinton's actual policies had been enacted over Republican opposition, this would not be the case. In other words, the above are as much Republican achievments of the 90's as they are Democratic achievments of the 90's. David wrote about conservative values, not non-progressive values. Yet it seems to me that the above tries to squeeze politics into that polarization. Must everything be either conservative or progressive? David is hardly advocating such polarization. Can we rise above the two choices available from the major U.S. parties? Seems like a good idea to me, considering how poorly both seem to be serving us. This is just an Internet mailing list -- we're not writing party platforms here. This is classic conservatism, how? Based on what? And in any case, the transfer of responsibility to the allies has been occuring under Bush, not Clinton. We'll have a transfer of responsibility when the soldiers being killed and injured in places like Iraq and Afghanistan come from the whole world, rather than mostly from the United States. What I see the Bush administration doing is abandoning responsibility to other nations, not transferring their share of it. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Re: appealing to old style conservatives
Your list would be far more persuasive if you had some outside definition of classic conservative values, rather than just your say-so. Instead, it seems like you are defining classic conservatism as political positions favored by David Brin, which is wholly unconvincing. To you. Lots of others can allow themselves to perceive that these are traditional conservative values, betrayed by neocons. [reducing] deficit spending paying off the national debt Of course, Bill Clinton's record on these things is only possible thanks to the efforts of Republicans like Newt Gingrich and Phil Gramm.If Bill Clinton's actual policies had been enacted over Republican opposition, this would not be the case. In other words, the above are as much Republican achievments of the 90's as they are Democratic achievments of the 90's. Weird! A legitimate and rationale counter argument! One that's fair and arguable on reasonable bases Indeed, Hillary's toprpedoing of BC's congressional majority was one of the great bits of marital sabotage in history, far more devastating than the utterly FALSE things raving Limbaugh loonies said about her. What is even weirder is that, having accomplished wonder working WITH Clinton at the beginning - budget restraint and welfare reform, for example, the neocons THEN saw BC's outstretched hand as a sign of weakness and turned in rabid dogs, descending into 10 years of ever-worsening hysteria and fanaticism. I just don't get it. 92-94 showed that divided govt CAN bring out the best from both sides. Hence I do not believe what we are seeing now has anything to do with left-right. It has to do with an immune response by mad nostalgist platonist romantics of ALL kinds, against the modern world. promoting small business Not sure what you are referring to here, or why government promotion of small business is classic conservatism? Because classis conservatism (aka classic LIBERALISM) believes in markets and the creativity of true competition. Whereas neoconservatism is misnamed and should be classic conservatism in that it returns to older values... everything for inherited wealth. Justify power for elites. Use government to serve the aristocracy... except when a certain FOREIN aristocracy wants something else. Then serve your masters. investing in research and conservation to reduce dependence on foreign oil This is classic conservatism, how? Actually, President Bush has proposed substantial increases in research on fuel cell technology. Har! Now why THIS technology while undercutting all others? Parse it out. It will not come online in time to affect the short term value of oil stocks. But WHEN those stocks deplete, the aristos will be able to use all this research to make the next GM. increasing (rather than demolishing) military readiness This is curious, since during the Kosovo War, I believe that the US military came within a few weeks of running out of cruise missiles. Dream on. Armwave however you like. Those who think we have readiness today are not just deluded but psychotic Bill Clinton's defense cuts (which made a great deal of your first two points possible as well), did not exactly leave the US military in the high state of readiness you portray it. Limbaughism, pure and true. Dig this. BOTH Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton reversed secular DECLINES in armed readiness under their predecessors! True (and here I show flexibility you do not) Carter reversed a post vietnam plummet and Clinton reversed the post Cold War plummet. But the fact that the right is incapable of conceiving this... reducing the actual number of non defense federal employees (for the 1st time since 1912) Of course, a large part of the increase in non-defense federal employees came from the nationalization of the air screeners industry, which is hardly a Bush proposal. Fah!! You call the wholly unneeded cavity searches that we are now undergoing a GOOD thing? I am outta here. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Jim Sharkey wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! How about heliotrope? Or maybe fuschia? Jim Actually, Jim, it's spelled fuchsia. It's named after a German botonist by the name of Fuchs. It's a very common spelling mistake, one I made all the time until my mother the linguist told me the etymology of the word, and after that, I spelled it correctly. (Nothing like the threat of a repeat lecture!) As I'm neither your mother nor a linguist, I don't necessarily expect you to remember -- but I'm hoping that at least one person who makes that spelling mistake will manage not to do so in the future after reading this. (And if I have to show it to my kids in 10 years to make that happen, so be it.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: Actually, Jim, it's spelled fuchsia. It's named after a German botonist by the name of Fuchs. Which, interestingly enough, means fox. You'd expect him to be into animal evolution. Oh well. (And it's botanist, FWIW. ;) -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
Warren Ockrassa wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Julia Thompson wrote: Actually, Jim, it's spelled fuchsia. It's named after a German botonist by the name of Fuchs. Which, interestingly enough, means fox. You'd expect him to be into animal evolution. Oh well. (And it's botanist, FWIW. ;) D'oh! Thanks, Warren! (I know how to spell that one, not sure how it got away from me -- but it did.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
At 10:22 PM Tuesday 5/24/2005, Julia Thompson wrote: Jim Sharkey wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Please...rose or lavender or even puce (although Teal is the One True Color)...but *not* pink!!! How about heliotrope? Or maybe fuschia? Jim Actually, Jim, it's spelled fuchsia. It's named after a German botonist by the name of Fuchs. It's a very common spelling mistake, one I made all the time until my mother the linguist told me the etymology of the word, and after that, I spelled it correctly. (Nothing like the threat of a repeat lecture!) Unlike, say, the number of times he heard a play on his name repeated . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: It's a very common spelling mistake, one I made all the time until my mother the linguist told me the etymology of the word, and after that, I spelled it correctly. (Nothing like the threat of a repeat lecture!) Unlike, say, the number of times he heard a play on his name repeated . . . What the fuchsia talking about? -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
At 11:00 PM Tuesday 5/24/2005, Warren Ockrassa wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: It's a very common spelling mistake, one I made all the time until my mother the linguist told me the etymology of the word, and after that, I spelled it correctly. (Nothing like the threat of a repeat lecture!) Unlike, say, the number of times he heard a play on his name repeated . . . What the fuchsia talking about? Exactly. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Brin: Re: appealing to old style conservatives
JDG wrote: At 02:07 PM 5/24/2005 -0700, Dr. Brin wrote: For example, that Bill Clinton's record was not just weirdly better - by classic CONSERVATIVE values - but diametrically opposite to George Bush's when it comes to: Your list would be far more persuasive if you had some outside definition of classic conservative values, rather than just your say-so. Instead, it seems like you are defining classic conservatism as political positions favored by David Brin, which is wholly unconvincing. And your answers would be far more persuasive if they weren't so full of desperate rationalizations. The divisiveness and negativity of this administration are legion never has one man alienated so many people world wide. But Dr. Brin hasn't even broached what I consider to be the worst offenses of the Bush administration; it's disdain for the Geneva Convention and human rights in general. Bush is a bit like the father that thinks that by whipping his children and locking them in a closet he can get them to do what he wants. What goes around comes around. We'll be paying for the Bush administration's excesses long after he's nothing but a bad memory. -- Doug I got God on my side I'm just trying to survive What if what you do to survive Kills the things you love Fear's a powerful thing It can turn your heart black you can trust It'll take your God filled soul And fill it with devils and dust from Springsteen's Devils and Dust ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Just call me Grampa
On Tue, 24 May 2005 14:54:21 -0700 (PDT), Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: As of 5:25 or so this morning. My daughter gave birth to a healthy baby boy, 7 lb 4 oz., 20.5 in. Huzzah! And many happy evenings of plotting creative ways to spoil* him. *only just a little...:) Debbi Good News Maru Yes, very good news indeed! Thanks again everyone for all the kind words. 8^ -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Revenge of the REAL George Lucas...
On May 24, 2005, at 9:03 PM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: Unlike, say, the number of times he heard a play on his name repeated . . . What the fuchsia talking about? Exactly. Do you think it made him see red? -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
