Re: Mindless and Heartless
On Aug 23, 2005, at 6:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/22/2005 11:59:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And in this instance, again what we're talking about is a judgment call. I can be so sure of that because there is simply no objective evidence to support *anyone's* claims here. That strongly suggests we're dealing in the realm of opinion alone. I have tried to point out that there is in fact a structure to certain anti-semitic remarks that are historically verifiable. No argument there. I don't believe it requires judgement to say some remarks are anti-semitic. That's also true in some cases -- some remarks are clearly -ismic. I think we're getting into one of those grey areas, though, when we try to talk about *this* specific issue. 1. Neo-cons would have to be indisputably Jewish, either initially or now; 2. The label would have to be applied in a way that hinted at a broader Jewish conspiracy; 3. The label would have to be applied by someone who might reasonably be charged with an ism. Problem is that point (1) seems to be in dispute. Point (2) is not verifiably attached to Sheehan. And point (3) requires a knowledge of a person's motivations that can only come with rigorous checking of background, declarations of position made historically, and so on. The point is not whether neo-cons are all jewish it is that anti-semites identify them as jews and use the term neocon as a suragate for jew. 2) Such hints are out there. 3) Pat Bucchanan comes to mind. Even if this is true, the equation of someone like Cindy Sheehan with a known bigot is a fairly big leap. So would you concede that it's your background in Judaic culture which helps you be more sensitive to oppression in other groups? And would you further concede the *possibility* that someone in a different oppressed group might be just as sensitive to Jewish plight? Finally, would you consider it plausible that what we're actually having here is a difference of *judgment* in an issue which, like a strike zone, is vaguely defined at the edges, and which therefore disallows the probability of an objective decision being made? I would of course concede that Cindy insensitive to the plight of jews. First, you missed my point; second, what plight of Jews do you believe Ms. Sheehan doesn't appreciate? That is the crux of the issue. Her insenstivity to issues of antisemitism becomes antisemitism when she makes remarks that are anti-semitic. I don't believe you or anyone else have managed to prove she's made any anti-semitic comments at all. Even the quote attributed to her is not verifiably hers. Also, it seems to me that you're a bit too willing to apply a suggestion of deliberate wrongdoing to someone who (assuming the remarks are authentic) didn't provably intend bigotry. The conclusion is chilling: Ignorance alone of a subtle issue is sufficient to brand a person with a label of bigotry. That doesn't seem like a very healthy response. There is no judgement about whether the remarks are anti-semitic in my opinion. I simply disagree. So, I believe, do many others. That doesn't necessarily mean you're in error here, but it does suggest that an argument a bit more in-depth than I say it's anti-semitic, therefore it is is called for. Nick says she is not explicitly anti-semitic and I accept that but she clearly blames what neocons for our tilt (in her opinion) towards Israel and once again I cannot stress enough that this line of reasoning is used by explicit anti-semites …And therefore Ms. Sheehan is an unwitting anti-semitic propagandist. That's just too easy. It's too monochromatic for my tastes. -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Does the NYT EVER print anything that isn't dogawful tripe or Propaganda?
From: Max Battcher [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Fool wrote: [snipped nice list] Sluggy Freelance is my main daily strip. I would add: VGCats (.com) to your list; nothing like weird video game cats. Kevin and Kell (herdthinners.com) was started by a syndicated print comic artist and is purely online. Girl Genius (girlgeniusonline.com) is really interested because it started as a published cult series (as in comic store comic) and is going online because Studio Foglio thinks its an easier format (regardless of whether or not the business model is better). Also, some of the ones you mentioned (and a whole bunch more) can be summed up by pointing out the big Internet syndicates (comic hosts) such as Keenspot and Drunk-Duck. Because I'm not pimping those comics or services? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
timezones are evil, why they must be eradicated
Why do you keep your clock with a wrong time? It messes up the Webmail, placing your message as first. Spammers use this malice too, so you may eventually get filtered by spam filters. -- Original Message --- From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:36:35 -0400 = SPAM!!! Subject: Re: Does the NYT EVER print anything that isn't dogawful tripe or Propaganda? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: timezones are evil, why they must be eradicated
I'm seeing it as coming *later* than everything else, actually. Julia p.s. I'll stop top-posting when those who object to it get their clocks set right. ;) Alberto Monteiro wrote: Why do you keep your clock with a wrong time? It messes up the Webmail, placing your message as first. Spammers use this malice too, so you may eventually get filtered by spam filters. -- Original Message --- From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 17:36:35 -0400 = SPAM!!! Subject: Re: Does the NYT EVER print anything that isn't dogawful tripe or Propaganda? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Weekly Chat Reminder
As Steve said, The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over six years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but the chat goes on... and we want more recruits! Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion. We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly... -(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown. The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time. There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to do is send your web browser to: http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/ ..And you can connect directly from William's new web interface! My instruction page tells you how to log on, and how to talk when you get in: http://www.brin-l.org/brinmud.html It also gives a list of commands to use when you're in there. In addition, it tells you how to connect through a MUD client, which is more complicated to set up initially, but easier and more reliable than the web interface once you do get it set up. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ This message was sent automatically using cron. But even if WTG is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Peace words
I like this, from a discussion among families of soldiers who have died in battle: I believe that we need to be strong and tough, clear and direct. The choice I see is whether we use the good v. evil language that helped to sell this war to the American people, or we use language and actions of peacemakers, which refrain from blame and acknowledge that the capacity for good and evil is within each of us. I believe that when we call our leaders evil and blame them alone for the war, we perpetuate violence because we reinforce the illusion that peace is won by silencing or eliminating evil people. Then we are only inviting the world to choose which people are evil, rather than inviting the spirit of peace to settle in each heart. In our media-driven world, the call to judgment -- Choose which group is evil -- sells advertising, but it breeds violence. Let us heed the ancient wisdom that says when we see evil, first remove it from ourselves. Let us speak strongly and directly about *human* wrongdoing instead of prejudice-laced claims about Republican wrongdoing, Islamic wrongdoing, Arab wrongdoing and so forth. Prejudice of any kind -- political, religious or racist -- has no place in a peace movement. Let us embrace conflict with those who imagine that they are good and others are evil, remembering that peace is not the absence of conflict, but the presence of the spirit of self-sacrifice that led our loved ones to military service and their graves. Although I am deeply troubled by the policies that sent our troops to Iraq, I find peace in knowing that many have volunteered to put themselves in harm's way because their friends were in harm's way. Although I feel great anxiety when I consider that are beeing killed and injured in a war I find immoral, I find peace in knowing that for the vast majority of them, their motivation is love, not politics. Theirs is a spirit of self-sacrifice and service, the spirit that demonstrates with strong actions and quiet words that we are never alone, never forsaken. Prejudice vanishes in the chaos of battle, which lets us find unity in the brutality of war. Unfortunately, many Americans understandably choose to focus on our nation's noble principles, blind to the real costs of war. On a bloody street, whether it is Fallujah or Philadelphia, a person truly devoted to service cannot help but turn to the essence of being human, surrendering personal safety and selfishness to aid and defend friends and often also the wounded and captured enemies. Those who take lives in the service of country find nothing glorious in killing because they know that each enemy death is a fellow human. Differences over politics, religion, race mean little. The truth is not, Greater love has no one than this, to eliminate one's enemies. The great truth is, Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends. Those are words that lead to blood and tears, words that are neither soft nor nice, yet they are words of love, a love we are called to extend not just to our friends, but also to our enemies. May we always use strong, direct and tough words of love. -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voicemail: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mindless and Heartless
Matt G wrote: Perhaps someone wants to argue that GWB should *not* have to endure a half-hour with her, and maybe even that he's not accountable to her (or even the public). Dan Minette wrote: Why, because of her views, is half an hour with her more important than half an hour with her other son, or his father (both of whom seem to think his death is a nobel sacrifice). How about all the others within a first degree of kinship (parent, child, sibling)? Don't they have an equal right to half an hour? That would be more than a full time job for a year. *Her* views drove her to camp out in TX, which I don't recall anyone else doing. That has to have earned her something. There definitely should be some minimal show of resolve by those without the power to force an audience. Automatically assigning limited time to all comers is oviously not a practical solution. Do you really want to argue that since GWB doesn't have the time to see everybody, then he should see nobody? He certainly seems to be acting that way. He is accountable to the public; that's what elections are for. He clearly won the last one. So are you saying that the only time and place that a politician should be held accountable for his decisions is in the voting booth? Come on, you can do better than that. USA politics already don't work that way. Also, while we're at it, he won by what, 2% of the popular vote, at most? Isn't that a pretty good statement that total public support is tepid? It's certainly not a 65%+ carte blanche mandate to do whatever he wants. Republicans also gained seats in the House and Senate in 2004; which indicates that the voting public had a preference for the Republicans. If that is changing, the 2006 elections are only a little more than a year away, and intelligent Republican congressmen and senators should have a feel for which way the wind is blowing. You would think that a sitting president would also be able to gague those same winds. GWB should have done something more than just avoid her, if simply to keep from geting his image tarnished too badly. He didn't have to be on the hook for anything, All he had to do was let her meet with him and then pretend to listen to and understand her grievances. Early enough and it could have defused her emotionally, he could have spun himself as being a compassionate politician, and deflated the political football we have today. -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: timezones are evil, why they must be eradicated
From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why do you keep your clock with a wrong time? It messes up the Webmail, placing your message as first. Spammers use this malice too, so you may eventually get filtered by spam filters. I just realized it said 6:08 am and not 6:08 pm. Thx. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: FLCL and Paranoia Agent
From: Steve Sloan [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Fool wrote: Neon Genesis Evangelion (coming) That's good news. I keep hearing about that show, but I've never seen it. FullMetal Alchemist New--in 4 weeks Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex: 2nd Gig (coming) Damn good news, on both counts! Not so fast...Williams street decided to fvck with the schedule again: On Saturday, October 8 InuYasha will take the 11 p.m. spot, followed by Fullmetal Alchemist, which will move its premieres to 11:30 p.m. Samurai Champloo will begin repeats Saturday, October 8 at 12:30 a.m., leading up to new episodes beginning November 19. After its Sunday premiere on October 2, The Boondocks will repeat on Saturdays, beginning October 8 at midnight. Perfect Hair Forever will now premiere Sunday, November 13 at 12:15 a.m. The second-season premiere of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex has been moved to Saturday, November 19 at 11 p.m. Escaflowne Movie --in 3 weeks Also good news. The little bit of a series I saw a few years back, I think on Fox Kids, was pretty interesting. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Mindless and Heartless
On Aug 24, 2005, at 5:45 PM, Matt Grimaldi wrote: Do you really want to argue that since GWB doesn't have the time to see everybody, then he should see nobody? There's a precedent: He can't understand everything, so… -- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress The Seven-Year Mirror http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
