Dr. Who
Probable spoilers: They added a new counterpoint to the opening theme and rescored it with synthesizers. Bleh. It lacks the truly synthetic and slightly creepy sound of the the original masterpiece. This new version has no heart, no sharpness. It's kind of bleh. Seems kind of campy so far. Especially the background music. No regenation sequence from eighth doctor to ninth. A proper Dr. Who episode needs to be 2h (with commercials or 1.5h -commercials). You can't tell a proper Dr. Who story in only 45 minutes. First the put the eye of harmony in the TARDIS in the 96 movie, and now they've killed off gallefrey and 'all' the time lords (does this include the Master I wonder?). ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
On 3/17/06, Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip (L.A. back with a Oakland booty.) Baby got back. (L.A. back with a Oakland booty.) (L.A. back with a Oakland booty.) more snipped Rob, rob rob. I believe that should be, L.A. face, with the Oakland booty. :-) And have you heard the folkish remake/parody by Jonathan Coulton? http://www.jonathancoulton.com/2005/10/14/thing-a-week-5-baby-got-back/ Or how about the Christian parody, Baby got Book? The video is at http://www.devilducky.com/media/25512/ I would recommend not having liquid nearby the first time you watch or listen to either of these. Mauro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
On 19 Mar 2006 at 21:31, Doug Pensinger wrote: Andrew wrote: Sure. Because then they'll come to America. And England. And other western counties. All in all, if they want to die for the cause, I'd prefer they did so over there. Iraq is to terrorists what a swamp is to mosquitos. We dry up the swamp - or at least some portion of it - by leaving. How much of a portion, however? Most of the groups active in Iraq have made it clear that they won't respect borders in what they see as an ideological struggle. AndrewC (Do remember, I'm Jewish, Zionist and have VERY strong views on the subject of terror) Then you should be against engaging in activites that have a tendency to increase the terrorist's numbers and increase their motivation to attack the West and eventually Israel as well. Israel is and isn't a different situation. It is, because the portion of the violence between palestian nationalists and Isralies is not, has never been and never will be religious at its heart. It is, quite simply, about land and water rights. Politics dictates, to a large extent, the ebb and flow of this violence. It isn't, because seperately from that, there are terrorist groups who operate under a number of banners and who attack Israel. These groups have a fairly consistant attack rate, regardless of the political situation. They motivation is ideological. There's a pretty simple lesson there. AndrewC Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Rewriting The Science
On 19 Mar 2006 at 22:33, Doug Pensinger wrote: Rewriting The Science http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/17/60minutes/main1415985.shtml or http://tinyurl.com/qoo59 REwriting? The evidence has been clear for quite some time that this was the ongoing trend, especially in light of the data gathered over America in the wake of the 9/11 aircraft shutdown which showed that particulate emissions were acting as a force hiding the initial surge of temperatures rises. But air particulates themselves have their own drawbacks, in terms of lung disease and so on. And so Europe, at least, has achieved a fall in the past 18 months - and has seen a small drop but significant in average temperatures as a result. The data's been quite clear for some time. And there is only one power source which can possibly take up the majority of the slack if we move away from burning fossil fuels. One with a long lead time, which we need to start acting on now: nuclear energy. AndrewC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
On Mar 21, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: Iraq is to terrorists what a swamp is to mosquitos. We dry up the swamp - or at least some portion of it - by leaving. How much of a portion, however? Most of the groups active in Iraq have made it clear that they won't respect borders in what they see as an ideological struggle. ...and most of those groups aren't capable of operating beyond borders. They're bandits. AndrewC (Do remember, I'm Jewish, Zionist and have VERY strong views on the subject of terror) Then you should be against engaging in activites that have a tendency to increase the terrorist's numbers and increase their motivation to attack the West and eventually Israel as well. Israel is and isn't a different situation. That we know, but that's not the point Doug was making. Lesson learned: invading or militarily suppressing a territory without any real strategy for rebuilding, or understanding of how the various factions will act when let off the leash, PROMOTES terrorist recruitment. Continuing that action may make things worse, but it definitely won't make it better. As Doug says, if the only result of staying is the loss of more American lives, what's the point? Put those resources into intelligence and military precision strike teams, and contain the problem. Compare with Iran: the same cycle has started. Staring down, gradual ramping up of pressure. When historically, the only way that has kept the region free of nukes (ignoring Israel's for the purposes of this discussion as they're tactical weapons, not potential terror weapons) has been standoff and tactical bombing or limited strike at specific sites. Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: The final word is Hooray!
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: The final word is Hooray! Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 07:23:10 -0800 From FAIR... a collection of quotes about the war in Iraq. Incredible how the tables have turned... We're going to win... we're winning... we won... None of it was real *The Final Word Is Hooray!* Remembering the Iraq War's Pollyanna pundits Insanity: doing what you've always done in hopes that you won't get what you've always gotten. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
On 21 Mar 2006 at 7:32, Charlie Bell wrote: On Mar 21, 2006, at 6:38 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: Iraq is to terrorists what a swamp is to mosquitos. We dry up the swamp - or at least some portion of it - by leaving. How much of a portion, however? Most of the groups active in Iraq have made it clear that they won't respect borders in what they see as an ideological struggle. ...and most of those groups aren't capable of operating beyond borders. They're bandits. That is...surmise. Certainly some of the current groups can't, but that doesn't mean that if they were willing that certain other factions wouldn't be willing to pay for them to go to the great satan and do attacks. And some of the groups can, but they chose not to simply because their leadership is quite happy to bleed expendable fighters for the cause relatively locally. Remove that, and they will have to look further afield, because the one they cannnot do is stop acting or they will be deposed by people who WILL act. AndrewC (Do remember, I'm Jewish, Zionist and have VERY strong views on the subject of terror) Then you should be against engaging in activites that have a tendency to increase the terrorist's numbers and increase their motivation to attack the West and eventually Israel as well. Israel is and isn't a different situation. That we know, but that's not the point Doug was making. Lesson learned: invading or militarily suppressing a territory without any real strategy for rebuilding, or understanding of how the various factions will act when let off the leash, PROMOTES terrorist recruitment. That is your interpretation of the facts. Mine is that true ideologically-based terror does not care about national borders, that they will attack anyway - and if they can attack a source closer to their bases, then they will. Continuing that action may make things worse, but it definitely won't make it better. As Doug says, if the only result of staying is the loss of more American lives, what's the point? Put those resources into intelligence and military precision strike teams, and contain the problem. Because in a democracy, that is a losing proposition. You cannot lock down terror at home without imposing the sort of measures which will alienate the voters so much that they will vote someone who ISN'T cracking down on them personally so much. Compare with Iran: the same cycle has started. Staring down, gradual ramping up of pressure. When historically, the only way that has kept the region free of nukes (ignoring Israel's for the purposes of this discussion as they're tactical weapons, not potential terror weapons) has been standoff and tactical bombing or limited strike at specific sites. Nation-states usually act more logically than Terrorists (excluding insane dictatorships), simply because they are an easily located physical entity. Even Iran's recent statements are really not so illogical if you consider the domestic situation. (Heck, look at America's Prohibition era for the sort of mess even a reprisentative Democracy can get into when it tries to impress allied countries with its morality) And well, this time the Iranians have deacent air defences. But nothing which could stop an Isralie long range missile with a conventional warhead. Wonder when (and as far as I and quite a few others are concerned, it pretty much IS when...) AndrewC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Is it just me....
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Pensinger Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 7:45 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Is it just me Is it just me or does anyone else see that the major reason there is an insurgency in Iraq is our (the U.S.) pressence? I don't see it as that black and white. Our presence helped fuel the insurgence. The stupidity of the initial policy gave it a chance to flourish and grow. But, I don't see our leaving as ending it. At the present time, the US is the controlling force in Iraq. It does have trouble suppressing the insurgency, no doubt, but it prevents other forces from being dominant. The present goals of the US, getting the Iraq armed forces trained to the point where they can at least hold their own with militias and insurgents and to nudge the political factions into a coalition government. Everyone seems to agree that Al Qaida is provoking the sectarian violence, and that they consider the U.S., not Iraq, their enemy. AQ certainly considers the US an enemy. But, they also see moderate Arab governments as enemies, or at least pawns of the US. They are not inherently opposed to the people of Iraq, but they are inherently opposed to Iraq developing into a moderate Arab state, such as Jordan If we leave, they loose most of their purpose there and maybe the insurgency goes away. If that happens, and the parliament actually runs the company, then Bush would have succeeded in Iraq. Tom Friedman had two very good columns on Iraq in the last couple of weeks. Unfortunately, he's now premium content at the NY Times, so I can't quote him exactly. In one of his columns he looks at three possible outcomes in Iraq. First, he states that there is still some chance that a coalition government will form, and the Iraqi troops will be well trained enough to be the strongest force in Iraq...at least enough to hold their own against insurgents and militias. This is the best possible outcome. Second, if we withdraw, and the outcome is civil strife/civil war, the middle outcome would be seen. It would be a mitigated disaster, if you would. The Iranian influence on the Shiites would be tempered by that natural Persian/Arab distrust (which goes back centuries). The influence on/acceptability by the Sunni's by AQ would lesson, without the US to hold up as occupiers. The conflict would be bloody, with significant human rights violations by the militia common place (e.g. death squads, mass killings of civilians), but it would probably not draw in other nations. The third alternative is that we sit there and babysit the disintegration for years to come. We'll always hope that things will get better, but we'll still be identified as the one to make them worse. Obviously, this analysis tends to lead one to conclude that we can't just stay in Iraq. Yet, it isn't a call for a quick, immediate withdrawal. Rather, it seems to call for a transition from the US being the controlling force to Iraqi forces controlling Iraq. Ideally, of course, it would be the forces belonging to the elected central government. More realistically, both militia power and the power of elected representatives would need to be considered in Iraq. That is probably the best case scenario we can now hope for. Worst case is a civil war that turns very ugly, drawing neighboring countries into the fight. I do not think the Sunni governments around Iraq would stand by and let Sunni civilians be killed by the tens of thousands, for example. One final point: it appears that we finally have competent people on the ground in Iraq. Training the Iraqi military and having an ambassador who actually understands the region are gigantic steps over our initial foolishness. If we implemented the present strategy, if Bush used the post war plan developed by the State Department from the very beginning, it is probable that things would be significantly better than they are now. Indeed, history may show that Bush succeeded, through his arrogance, in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
On Mar 17, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: Having my baby what a lovely way of saying How much you love me. Having my baby what a lovely way of saying What you're thinking of me. I can see it your face is glowing Prepare for shock and awe: Sing, sing a song Sing out loud, sing out strong Sing of good things, not bad Sing of happy, not sad Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry if it's not good enough For anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la Chorus: Sing, sing a song Let the world sing along Sing of love there could be Sing for you and for me Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry if it's not good enough For anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song (Just sing, sing a song) Just sing, sing a song La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la (to fade) Dave Don't make me come down there Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
On Mar 17, 2006, at 6:23 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: You aint trying hard enoughG Now you're just trying to make me angry. Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Shadows paintin' our faces Traces of romance in our heads Heaven's holdin' a half-moon Shinin' just for us Let's slip off to a sand dune, real soon And kick up a little dust Come on, Cactus is our friend He'll point out the way Come on, till the evenin' ends Till the evenin' ends You don't have to answer There's no need to speak I'll be your belly dancer, prancer And you can be my sheik I know your Daddy's a sultan A nomad known to all With fifty girls to attend him, they all send him Jump at his beck and call But you won't need no harem, honey When I'm by your side And you won't need no camel, no no When I take you for a ride Come on, Cactus is our friend He'll point out the way Come on, till the evenin' ends Till the evenin' ends Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Got shadows paintin' our faces And traces of romance in our heads Dave Do Ya think I'm Sexy Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Friends, Here's one that is not in response to anything. I'm just all worked up and this has got to get out of my system, and this thread really, really has to die. I'm going to give you a LOT of spoiler space, because this thing is so freaking dangerous that I can't just spring it on you. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Warning: If you've ever heard this song, even once, its eggs are already planted in you. Reading the lyrics below will cause them to hatch, and it won't be long before before it digs itself out through your chest and leaves you a bloody wreck on the mess room table. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CAUTION: I swear I got brain cancer from this song. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . And yet, there are people who adore it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . STOP! Before you go on, let me say two words: Butterfly Kisses. You have been warned. If you continue, I am not responsible for any harm that may come to you. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . There's two things I know for sure: She was sent here from heaven and she's daddy's little girl. As I drop to my knees by her bed at night She talks to Jesus and I close my eyes and I thank god for all the joy in my life Oh, but most of all For butterfly kisses after bedtime prayer; sticking little white flowers all up in her hair; Walk beside the pony, Daddy, it's my first ride. I know the cake looks funny, Daddy, but I sure tried. In all that I've done wrong I know I must have done something right to deserve a hug every morning and butterfly kisses at night. Sweet 16 today She's looking like her mama a little more everyday One part woman, the other part girl. To perfume and make-up from ribbons and curls Trying her wings out in a great big world. But I remember Butterfly kisses after bedtime prayer; sticking little white flowers all up in her hair. You know how much I love you, Daddy, But if you don't mind I'm only gonna kiss you on the cheek this time. With all that I've done wrong I must have done something right to deserve her love every morning and butterfly kisses at night. All the precious time Like the wind, the years go by. Precious butterfly. Spread your wings and fly. She'll change her name today. She'll make a promise and I'll give her away. Standing in the bride-room just staring at her. She asked me what I'm thinking and I said I'm not sure-I just feel like I'm losing my baby girl. She leaned over#8230;gave me butterfly kisses with her mama there, Sticking little white flowers all up in her hair Walk my down the aisle, Daddy-it's just about time. Does my wedding gown look pretty, Daddy? Daddy, don't cry! Oh, with all that I've done wrong I must have done something right. To deserve your love every morning and butterfly kisses-I couldn't ask God for more, man this is what love is. I know I gotta let her go, but I'll always remember every hug in the morning and butterfly kisses. Dave Don't blame me if this song eats your soul Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
At 06:07 PM Monday 3/20/2006, Dave Land wrote: On Mar 17, 2006, at 6:23 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: You aint trying hard enoughG Now you're just trying to make me angry. Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Shadows paintin' our faces Traces of romance in our heads Heaven's holdin' a half-moon Shinin' just for us Let's slip off to a sand dune, real soon And kick up a little dust Come on, Cactus is our friend He'll point out the way Come on, till the evenin' ends Till the evenin' ends You don't have to answer There's no need to speak I'll be your belly dancer, prancer And you can be my sheik I know your Daddy's a sultan A nomad known to all With fifty girls to attend him, they all send him Jump at his beck and call But you won't need no harem, honey When I'm by your side And you won't need no camel, no no When I take you for a ride Come on, Cactus is our friend He'll point out the way Come on, till the evenin' ends Till the evenin' ends Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Got shadows paintin' our faces And traces of romance in our heads Lovin' you is easy cause your beautiful Making love with you is all I wanna do Lovin' you is more than just a dream come true And everything that I do is out of lovin' you La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo A-ah-ah-ah-a-ah-ah-a-a-a No one else can make me feel the colors that you bring Stay with me while we grow old and we will live each day in springtime Cause lovin' you has made my life so beautiful And every day of my life is filled with lovin' you Lovin' you, I see your soul come shining through And everytime that we ..ooh I'm more in love with you La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo A-ah-ah-ah-a-ah-ah-a-a-a No one else can make me feel the colors that you bring Stay with me wile we grow old and we will live each day in springtime Cause lovin' you is easy cause your beautiful And everyday of my life is filled with lovin' you Lovin' you, I see your soul come shining trough And everytime that we ..ooh I'm more in love with you La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo A-ah-ah-ah-a-ah-ah-a-a-a A Five Octave Range Maru --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton (Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
On Mar 21, 2006, at 8:04 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote: ...and most of those groups aren't capable of operating beyond borders. They're bandits. That is...surmise. Possibly, but informed surmise... Certainly some of the current groups can't, but that doesn't mean that if they were willing that certain other factions wouldn't be willing to pay for them to go to the great satan and do attacks Most, from what I understand from British soldiers I know (in real life), seem to just be trying to get rid of the yanks from Iraq. The wider global terrorist groups may be recruiting there, but And some of the groups can, but they chose not to simply because their leadership is quite happy to bleed expendable fighters for the cause relatively locally. Remove that, and they will have to look further afield, because the one they cannnot do is stop acting or they will be deposed by people who WILL act. *They* again. Who is *they*? It's bloody nebulous. There are terrorist groups, loose affiliations that the West calls Al-Qaeda/ Jamar Islamir or whatever. These work globally. There are Iraqi insurgent groups also whose ONLY goal is getting the occupation forces (as they see it) out of Iraq. This bundling of all potential enemies and combatants is both lazy and unhelpful. The insurgency may be being latched onto by extremist groups and some of our familiar terrorist groups, but it's far more complicated than that. Lesson learned: invading or militarily suppressing a territory without any real strategy for rebuilding, or understanding of how the various factions will act when let off the leash, PROMOTES terrorist recruitment. That is your interpretation of the facts. Mine is that true ideologically-based terror does not care about national borders, that they will attack anyway - and if they can attack a source closer to their bases, then they will. Northern Ireland. Viet-Nam. Central America. East Africa. It's not just Iraq, Iraq is just the most recent. We need to separate the global ideologues (I am NOT denying they exist, I just think we should deal with them differently) from the freedom fighters. Iraq is several problems. Continuing that action may make things worse, but it definitely won't make it better. As Doug says, if the only result of staying is the loss of more American lives, what's the point? Put those resources into intelligence and military precision strike teams, and contain the problem. Because in a democracy, that is a losing proposition. You cannot lock down terror at home without imposing the sort of measures which will alienate the voters so much that they will vote someone who ISN'T cracking down on them personally so much. No. The point that I've made over and over in the last few years is that you can't lock down terrorist attacks AT ALL. If someone really wants to kill innocents, they will. There is, ultimately, not a damn thing you can do about it at the front line. What you do is put out the message that it will not make you change a damn thing, you will keep living your lives. This is where Spain, Britain and Israel get it so right, and America has got it so wrong. You try to negate the environments that foster terrorism (something Britain may be dropping the ball on through some odd non-inclusive policies), you do the best police work you can, you keep blowing up the training camps out in the deserts, and then you just get on with your lives. Compare with Iran: the same cycle has started. Staring down, gradual ramping up of pressure. When historically, the only way that has kept the region free of nukes (ignoring Israel's for the purposes of this discussion as they're tactical weapons, not potential terror weapons) has been standoff and tactical bombing or limited strike at specific sites. Nation-states usually act more logically than Terrorists (excluding insane dictatorships), simply because they are an easily located physical entity. Even Iran's recent statements are really not so illogical if you consider the domestic situation. Sure. But they're not far off an insane dictatorship. Wouldn't take much to push out the hard-liners in charge and replace them with even- harder-liners. (Heck, look at America's Prohibition era for the sort of mess even a reprisentative Democracy can get into when it tries to impress allied countries with its morality) Sure thing. Agree there! (Might say the War On Drugs since the prohibition laws of the 1920's is the same deal, tbh). And well, this time the Iranians have deacent air defences. But nothing which could stop an Isralie long range missile with a conventional warhead. Wonder when (and as far as I and quite a few others are concerned, it pretty much IS when...) Or a couple of well-placed smart bombs from F-117s or B-2s, or covert special forces, if the US do the right thing and Iran don't. That's my point. THAT'S how to deal with the countries (insane
Re: Is it just me....
On Mar 21, 2006, at 9:33 AM, Dan Minette wrote: Obviously, this analysis tends to lead one to conclude that we can't just stay in Iraq. Yet, it isn't a call for a quick, immediate withdrawal. Rather, it seems to call for a transition from the US being the controlling force to Iraqi forces controlling Iraq. Ideally, of course, it would be the forces belonging to the elected central government. More realistically, both militia power and the power of elected representatives would need to be considered in Iraq. That is probably the best case scenario we can now hope for. Absolutely agree. I don't think anyone is actually calling for the USA to up and leave TODAY NOW DAMMIT, just to start looking at how to pull out leaving the best they can. Worst case is a civil war that turns very ugly, drawing neighboring countries into the fight. I do not think the Sunni governments around Iraq would stand by and let Sunni civilians be killed by the tens of thousands, for example. :/ One final point: it appears that we finally have competent people on the ground in Iraq. Training the Iraqi military and having an ambassador who actually understands the region are gigantic steps over our initial foolishness. If we implemented the present strategy, if Bush used the post war plan developed by the State Department from the very beginning, it is probable that things would be significantly better than they are now. Indeed, history may show that Bush succeeded, through his arrogance, in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. That is possibly the most honest assessment I've seen. Bush's arrogance (ignorance/incompetence?) has been a vast part of the problem all along. His desperation to get Saddam at all costs from the start of his office blinded him to any decent analysis or contingency for what to do after he'd got him. Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
Certainly some of the current groups can't, but that doesn't mean that if they were willing that certain other factions wouldn't be willing to pay for them to go to the great satan and do attacks Most, from what I understand from British soldiers I know (in real life), seem to just be trying to get rid of the yanks from Iraq. The wider global terrorist groups may be recruiting there, but ...but must finish sentences before send ...but a large amount of the enemy action would not translate to further terrorism beyond the conclusion of the current action/ occupation. Of course, there are some that will, but I think leaving Iraq to settle down will ameliorate the worst of this. We can't prevent it (or prevent attacks on our homelands) by continued occupation, it's a false dichotomy. Anyway, as I said in my other post, I think we largely agree, we're just talking over the differences a bit. Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
On Mar 21, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Dave Land wrote: Now you're just trying to make me angry. Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Shadows paintin' our faces Traces of romance in our heads I'm sorry, but it's time I weighed in here, I've let you two go on long enough... Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there She would merengue and do the cha-cha And while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4 They were young and they had each other Who could ask for more? At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copathey fell in love (Copa Copacabana) His name was Rico, he wore a diamond He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancin' there And when she finished, he called her over But Rico went a bit too far, Tony sailed across the bar And then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two There was blood and a single gun shot But just who shot who? At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copashe lost her love (Copa. . Copacabana) (Copa Copacabana) (Copacabana, ahh ahh ahh ahh) (Ahh ahh ahh ahh Copa Copacabana) (Talking Havana have a banana) (Music and passion...always the fash--shun) Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl But that was 30 years ago, when they used to have a show Now it's a disco, but not for Lola Still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind She lost her youth and she lost her Tony Now she's lost her mind! At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copadon't fall in love (Copa) don't fall in love Copacabana Copacabana Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
At 07:20 PM Monday 3/20/2006, Charlie Bell wrote: On Mar 21, 2006, at 11:07 AM, Dave Land wrote: Now you're just trying to make me angry. Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Shadows paintin' our faces Traces of romance in our heads I'm sorry, but it's time I weighed in here, I've let you two go on long enough... Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there She would merengue and do the cha-cha And while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4 They were young and they had each other Who could ask for more? At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copathey fell in love (Copa Copacabana) His name was Rico, he wore a diamond He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancin' there And when she finished, he called her over But Rico went a bit too far, Tony sailed across the bar And then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two There was blood and a single gun shot But just who shot who? At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copashe lost her love (Copa. . Copacabana) (Copa Copacabana) (Copacabana, ahh ahh ahh ahh) (Ahh ahh ahh ahh Copa Copacabana) (Talking Havana have a banana) (Music and passion...always the fash--shun) Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl But that was 30 years ago, when they used to have a show Now it's a disco, but not for Lola Still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind She lost her youth and she lost her Tony Now she's lost her mind! At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copadon't fall in love (Copa) don't fall in love Copacabana Copacabana See the tree, how big it's grown But friend it hasn't been too long It wasn't big I laughed at her and she got mad The first day that she planted it, was just a twig Then the first snow came And she ran out to brush the snow away So it wouldn't die Came runnin' in all excited Slipped and almost hurt herself And I laughed till I cried She was always young at heart Kinda dumb and kinda smart and I loved her so And I surprised her with a puppy Kept me up all Christmas Eve two years ago And it would sure embarrass her When I came in from workin' late 'Cause I would know That she'd been sittin' there and cryin' Over some sad and silly late, late show And honey, I miss you And I'm bein' good And I'd love to be with you If only I could She wrecked the car and she was sad And so afraid that I'd be mad But what the heck Though I pretended hard to be Guess you could say she saw through me And hugged my neck I came home unexpectedly And caught her cryin' needlessly In the middle of the day And it was in the early Spring When flowers bloom and robins sing She went away And honey, I miss you And I'm bein' good And I'd love to be with you If only I could One day while I was not at home While she was there and all alone The angels came Now all I have is memories of Honey And I wake up nights and call her name Now my life's an empty stage Where Honey lived and Honey played And love grew up And a small cloud passes overhead And cries down on the flower bed That Honey loved And see the tree how big it's grown But friend it hasn't been too long It wasn't big And I laughed at her and she got mad The first day that she planted it, was just a twig With All That Sap It Must Be A Maple Tree Maru --Ronn! :) Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our country and two words have been added to the pledge of Allegiance... UNDER GOD. Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said that is a prayer and that would be eliminated from schools too? -- Red Skelton (Someone asked me to change my .sig quote back, so I did.) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Dave Land wrote: Sing, sing a song Sing out loud, sing out strong If you're idea of mean is reviving sweet remembrances of days when I wished people would believe Big Bird about Snuffalupagaus, please be sure to keep me on your bad side. :-) Jim Sunny day, everything's A-OK Maru ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Dave Land wrote: Prepare for shock and awe: Sing, sing a song Sing out loud, sing out strong Sing of good things, not bad Sing of happy, not sad Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry if it's not good enough For anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la Chorus: Sing, sing a song Let the world sing along Sing of love there could be Sing for you and for me Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry if it's not good enough For anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song (Just sing, sing a song) Just sing, sing a song La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la (to fade) We travel single-oh Maybe we're lucky, but I don't know-- With them, Just let one kid fall down And seven mothers faint. I guess we're both happy, but maybe-- We ain't. People--people who need people Are the luckiest people in the world, We're children, needing other children And yet letting our grown-up pride Hide all the need inside, Acting more like children Than children. Lovers are very special people, They're the luckiest people In the world. With one person, one very special person A feeling deep in your soul Says you were half, Now you're whole. No more hunger and thirst But first be a person Who needs people. People who need people Are the luckiest people In the world! xponent Down Wid It Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Dave Land wrote: On Mar 17, 2006, at 6:23 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: You aint trying hard enoughG Now you're just trying to make me angry. Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Shadows paintin' our faces Traces of romance in our heads Heaven's holdin' a half-moon Shinin' just for us Let's slip off to a sand dune, real soon And kick up a little dust Come on, Cactus is our friend He'll point out the way Come on, till the evenin' ends Till the evenin' ends You don't have to answer There's no need to speak I'll be your belly dancer, prancer And you can be my sheik I know your Daddy's a sultan A nomad known to all With fifty girls to attend him, they all send him Jump at his beck and call But you won't need no harem, honey When I'm by your side And you won't need no camel, no no When I take you for a ride Come on, Cactus is our friend He'll point out the way Come on, till the evenin' ends Till the evenin' ends Midnight at the oasis Send your camel to bed Got shadows paintin' our faces And traces of romance in our heads Diamonds, Daisies, Snowflakes, That Girl Chestnuts, Rainbows, Springtime is That Girl Shes tinsel on a tree - Shes everything that every girl should be! Sable, Popcorn, White Wine, That Girl Gingham, Bluebirds, Broadway is That Girl Shes mine alone, but luckily for you if you find a girl to love, Only one girl to love, then shell be That Girl too. That Girl! xponent As Seen On TV Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
Lovin' you is easy cause your beautiful
Making love with you is all I wanna do
Lovin' you is more than just a dream come true
And everything that I do is out of lovin' you
La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo
A-ah-ah-ah-a-ah-ah-a-a-a
No one else can make me feel the colors that you bring
Stay with me while we grow old and we will live each day in
springtime
Cause lovin' you has made my life so beautiful
And every day of my life is filled with lovin' you
Lovin' you, I see your soul come shining through
And everytime that we ..ooh I'm more in love with you
La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo
A-ah-ah-ah-a-ah-ah-a-a-a
No one else can make me feel the colors that you bring
Stay with me wile we grow old and we will live each day in
springtime
Cause lovin' you is easy cause your beautiful
And everyday of my life is filled with lovin' you
Lovin' you, I see your soul come shining trough
And everytime that we ..ooh I'm more in love with you
La-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la
Doo-doo-doo-doo-doo-doo
A-ah-ah-ah-a-ah-ah-a-a-a
{And a volley backhand}
The love between the two of us was dying
And it got so bad I knew I had to leave
But halfway down that highway when I turned around I saw
My little daughter running after me
Crying
CHORUS
Daddy, don't you walk so fast
Daddy, don't you walk so fast
Daddy, slow down some 'cause you're makin' me run
Daddy, don't you walk so fast
Now it broke my heart to tell my little daughter
That her daddy had to run to catch a train
She had no way of knowin' I was leavin' home for good
I turned around and there she was again
As she said to me
Daddy, don't you walk so fast, my daughter cried
Daddy, don't you walk so fast
Daddy, slow down some 'cause you're makin' me run
Daddy, don't you walk so fast
If only for the sake of my sweet daughter
I just had to turn back home right there and then
And try to start a new life with the mother of my child
I couldn't bear to hear those words again
She cried and said
Daddy, don't you walk so fast, my daughter cried
Daddy, don't you walk so fast
Daddy, slow down some 'cause you're makin' me run
Oh, daddy, don't you walk so fast
(Daddy, don't you walk so fast) my daughter cried
(Daddy, don't you walk so fast)
FADE
Ah, daddy, slow down some 'cause you're making me run
xponent
The Clean Version Maru
rob
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Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Dave Land wrote:
There's two things I know for sure:
She was sent here from heaven and she's
daddy's little girl.
As I drop to my knees by her bed at night
She talks to Jesus and I close my eyes and
I thank god for all the joy in my life
Oh, but most of all
For butterfly kisses after bedtime prayer;
sticking little white flowers all up in her
hair; Walk beside the pony, Daddy, it's my first ride.
I know the cake looks funny, Daddy, but I sure tried.
In all that I've done wrong I know I must
have done something right to deserve a hug
every morning and butterfly kisses at night.
Sweet 16 today
She's looking like her mama a little more everyday
One part woman, the other part girl.
To perfume and make-up from ribbons and curls
Trying her wings out in a great big world.
But I remember
Butterfly kisses after bedtime prayer; sticking
little white flowers all up in her hair.
You know how much I love you, Daddy, But if you
don't mind I'm only gonna kiss you on the cheek this time.
With all that I've done wrong I must have done
something right to deserve her love every morning
and butterfly kisses at night.
All the precious time
Like the wind, the years go by.
Precious butterfly.
Spread your wings and fly.
She'll change her name today.
She'll make a promise and I'll give her away.
Standing in the bride-room just staring at her.
She asked me what I'm thinking and I said I'm not
sure-I just feel like I'm losing my baby girl.
She leaned over#8230;gave me butterfly kisses with her mama there,
Sticking little white flowers all up in her hair
Walk my down the aisle, Daddy-it's just about time.
Does my wedding gown look pretty, Daddy? Daddy, don't cry!
Oh, with all that I've done wrong I must have
done something right.
To deserve your love every morning and butterfly
kisses-I couldn't ask God for more, man this is what love is.
I know I gotta let her go, but I'll always remember
every hug in the morning and butterfly kisses.
{Let me play you a song SATAN used to sing to me in my cradleG}
[BTW I danced naked through that one DaveG]
Sugar, ah honey honey
You are my candy girl
And you've got me wanting you.
Honey, ah sugar sugar
You are my candy girl
And you've got me wanting you.
I just can't believe the loveliness of loving you
(I just can't believe it's true)
I just can't believe the one to love this feeling to.
(I just can't believe it's true)
Ah sugar, ah honey honey
You are my candy girl
And you've got me wanting you.
Ah honey, ah sugar sugar
You are my candy girl
And you've got me wanting you.
When I kissed you, girl, I knew how sweet a kiss could be
(I know how sweet a kiss can be)
Like the summer sunshine pour your sweetness over me
(Pour your sweetness over me)
Sugar, pour a little sugar on it honey,
Pour a little sugar on it baby
I'm gonna make your life so sweet, yeah yeah yeah
Pour a little sugar on it oh yeah
Pour a little sugar on it honey,
Pour a little sugar on it baby
I'm gonna make your life so sweet, yeah yeah yeah
Pour a little sugar on it honey,
Ah sugar, ah honey honey
You are my candy girl
And you've got me wanting you.
Oh honey, honey, sugar sugar ..
You are my candy girl ..
xponent
Who's Next? Maru
rob
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Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Charlie Bell wrote: I'm sorry, but it's time I weighed in here, I've let you two go on long enough... Her name was Lola, she was a showgirl With yellow feathers in her hair and a dress cut down to there She would merengue and do the cha-cha And while she tried to be a star, Tony always tended bar Across a crowded floor, they worked from 8 till 4 They were young and they had each other Who could ask for more? At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copathey fell in love (Copa Copacabana) His name was Rico, he wore a diamond He was escorted to his chair, he saw Lola dancin' there And when she finished, he called her over But Rico went a bit too far, Tony sailed across the bar And then the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two There was blood and a single gun shot But just who shot who? At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copashe lost her love (Copa. . Copacabana) (Copa Copacabana) (Copacabana, ahh ahh ahh ahh) (Ahh ahh ahh ahh Copa Copacabana) (Talking Havana have a banana) (Music and passion...always the fash--shun) Her name is Lola, she was a showgirl But that was 30 years ago, when they used to have a show Now it's a disco, but not for Lola Still in the dress she used to wear, faded feathers in her hair She sits there so refined, and drinks herself half-blind She lost her youth and she lost her Tony Now she's lost her mind! At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana (Copacabana) The hottest spot north of Havana (here) At the Copa (CO!), Copacabana Music and passion were always the fashion At the Copadon't fall in love (Copa) don't fall in love Copacabana Copacabana Phht! Correct artist (?), wrong song I remember all my life raining down as cold as ice. Shadows of a man, a face through a window cryin' in the night, the night goes into Morning just another day; happy people pass my way. Looking in their eyes, I see a memory I never realized how happy you made me. Oh Mandy well, you came and you gave without taking, but I sent you away. Oh, Mandy well, kissed me and stopped me from shaking, and I need you today. Oh, Mandy! I'm standing on the edge of time; I've walked away when love was mine. Caught up in a world of uphill climbing, the tears are in my mind and nothin' in rhyming. Oh Mandy well, you came and you gave without taking, but I sent you away. Oh, Mandy well, kissed me and stopped me from shaking, and I need you today. Oh, Mandy! Yesterday's a dream I face the morning Crying on a breeze The pain is calling Oh Mandy Well, you came and you gave without taking But I sent you away oh, Mandy Well, you kissed me and stopped me from shaking And I need you today Oh, Mandy you came and you gave without taking But I sent you away oh, Mandy Well, you kissed me and stopped me from shaking And I need you xponent Pedantic Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Ronn!Blankenship wrote:
See the tree, how big it's grown
But friend it hasn't been too long
It wasn't big
I laughed at her and she got mad
The first day that she planted it, was just a twig
Then the first snow came
And she ran out to brush the snow away
So it wouldn't die
Came runnin' in all excited
Slipped and almost hurt herself
And I laughed till I cried
She was always young at heart
Kinda dumb and kinda smart and I loved her so
And I surprised her with a puppy
Kept me up all Christmas Eve two years ago
And it would sure embarrass her
When I came in from workin' late
'Cause I would know
That she'd been sittin' there and cryin'
Over some sad and silly late, late show
And honey, I miss you
And I'm bein' good
And I'd love to be with you
If only I could
She wrecked the car and she was sad
And so afraid that I'd be mad
But what the heck
Though I pretended hard to be
Guess you could say she saw through me
And hugged my neck
I came home unexpectedly
And caught her cryin' needlessly
In the middle of the day
And it was in the early Spring
When flowers bloom and robins sing
She went away
And honey, I miss you
And I'm bein' good
And I'd love to be with you
If only I could
One day while I was not at home
While she was there and all alone
The angels came
Now all I have is memories of Honey
And I wake up nights and call her name
Now my life's an empty stage
Where Honey lived and Honey played
And love grew up
And a small cloud passes overhead
And cries down on the flower bed
That Honey loved
And see the tree how big it's grown
But friend it hasn't been too long
It wasn't big
And I laughed at her and she got mad
The first day that she planted it, was just a twig
{Ever get the feeling you're living a Monty Python sketch?}
Go away little girl
Go away little girl
I'm not supposed to be alone with you
Oh yes I know that your lips are sweet
But our lips must never meet
I belong to somebody else and I must be true.
Please go away little girl
Go away little girl
It's hurting me more each minute that you delay
When you are near me like this
You're much too hard to resist
So go away little girl before I beg you to stay.
Won't you go away (little girl)
Wish you wouldn't stay (little girl)
Won't you go away (little girl)
Wooo ooo go away.
Go away little girl
Go away little girl
It's hurting me more each minute that you delay
When you are near me like this
You're much too hard to resist
So go away little girl
Call it a day little girl
Please go away little girl before I beg you to stay.
Won't you go away (little girl)
Wish you wouldn't stay (little girl)
Won't you go away (little girl)
Please go away.
xponent
He Actually Broke Out The Osmonds? Maru
rob
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Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Jim Sharkey wrote: Dave Land wrote: Sing, sing a song Sing out loud, sing out strong If you're idea of mean is reviving sweet remembrances of days when I wished people would believe Big Bird about Snuffalupagaus, please be sure to keep me on your bad side. :-) Jim Sunny day, everything's A-OK Maru one two three four five six seven eight nine ten duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh one two three four five six seven eight niine ten xponent Hey Big Bird, Whatcha Doin Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
On Mar 21, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh duh one two three four five six seven eight niine ten ...eleven TWELVE!!! doo doo doo doo doo etc. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
At 09:24 PM Monday 3/20/2006, Robert Seeberger wrote:
{Ever get the feeling you're living a Monty Python sketch?}
Pretty much every day. Why should today be different? :P
Go away little girl
Go away little girl
I'm not supposed to be alone with you
Oh yes I know that your lips are sweet
But our lips must never meet
I belong to somebody else and I must be true.
Please go away little girl
Go away little girl
It's hurting me more each minute that you delay
When you are near me like this
You're much too hard to resist
So go away little girl before I beg you to stay.
Won't you go away (little girl)
Wish you wouldn't stay (little girl)
Won't you go away (little girl)
Wooo ooo go away.
Go away little girl
Go away little girl
It's hurting me more each minute that you delay
When you are near me like this
You're much too hard to resist
So go away little girl
Call it a day little girl
Please go away little girl before I beg you to stay.
Won't you go away (little girl)
Wish you wouldn't stay (little girl)
Won't you go away (little girl)
Please go away.
When I was living out that way, one of the radio stations in Salt
Lake City ran a survey inviting listeners to vote on the 500 best
songs of all time, and the following was #3:
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In the year 2525
If man is still alive.
If woman can survive, they may find.
In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies.
Everything you think, do and say, is in the pill you took today.
In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes.
You won't find a thing to chew.
Nobody's gonna look at you.
In the year
Your arms hanging limp at your sides.
Your legs got nothing to do.
Some machine doing that for you.
In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife.
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too.
From the bottom of a long glass tube. Whoa-oh
In the year 7510
If God's a-comin, he oughta make it by then.
Maybe he'll look around himself and say.
Guess it's time for the judgment day.
In the year 8510
God is gonna shake his mighty head.
He'll either say.I'm pleased where man has been.
Or tear it down and start again. Whoa-oh
In the year 9595
I'm kinda wonderin if man is gonna be alive.
He's taken everything this old Earth can give.
And he ain't put back nothing.Whoa-oh
Now it's been ten thousand years
Man has cried a billion tears.
For what he never knew,
now man's reign is through.
But through eternal night.
The twinkling of starlight.
So very far away.
Maybe it's only yesterday.
In the year 2525
If man is still alive.
If woman can survive, they may find.
In the year 3535 . . . {fade}
One Hit Wonders Maru
-- Ronn! :)
While looking out for number 1, be careful not to step in number 2 . . .
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Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Dave Land wrote: On Mar 17, 2006, at 4:31 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: Having my baby what a lovely way of saying How much you love me. Having my baby what a lovely way of saying What you're thinking of me. I can see it your face is glowing Prepare for shock and awe: Sing, sing a song Sing out loud, sing out strong Sing of good things, not bad Sing of happy, not sad Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry if it's not good enough For anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la Chorus: Sing, sing a song Let the world sing along Sing of love there could be Sing for you and for me Sing, sing a song Make it simple To last your whole life long Don't worry if it's not good enough For anyone else to hear Just sing, sing a song (Just sing, sing a song) Just sing, sing a song La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la La la la la la La la la la la la La la la la la la la (to fade) Dave Don't make me come down there Land I had a friend, a friend I could trust He went into the park and got busted Doing the ring-a-round-a-rosy rag Went in the park late at night And he put a lot of people over eighty up tight He was doing the ring-a-round-a-rosy rag CHORUS: Ring around, ring around rose Touch your nose and blow your toes and mind Doing the ring-around-a-rosy rag (It really was a drag) Ring around, ring-around-a-rose Touch your nose and blow your toes and mind Doing the ring-around-a-rosy rag We ought to send Officer Joe Strange To some Australian mountain range So we all can do the ring-around-a-rosy rag Would you like to put Philidelphia up tight One mass ring-around-a-rosy In the middle of the night? We all should do the ring-around-a-rosy rag Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Is it just me....
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charlie Bell Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 7:01 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: Re: Is it just me Or a couple of well-placed smart bombs from F-117s or B-2s, or covert special forces, if the US do the right thing and Iran don't. That's my point. THAT'S how to deal with the countries (insane dictatorships or otherwise) that present clear dangers. Pick the threat targets, and destroy them (hopefully without spreading too much uranium and plutonium across the landscape...). It had once been that simple, I think. Israel set Hussein back over a decade with their bombing run. Now, countries often go to much greater lengths to hide their activities. For example, Lybia was only about a year away from a bomb when Quadafi (sp) decided to come in out of the cold. Information we obtained after Gulf War I indicates that Hussein was a year or two away when he invaded Kuwait. India and Pakistan both surprised the US, and Western intelligence in general when they tested bombs. From what I've read, it is probable, actually close to certain, that the US has dropped and retrieved survey teams in Iraq. What I get, from reading between the lines, is that they have concluded that there are numerous places where the program could be hiddenand it would not be something that could be taken out with a few bombing runs or commando raids. If it could, then I would have no argument with that being the action of choice. It might even be prudent for this to be done against targets in the hopes of delaying the acquisition of an A-bomb. But, it is probable, unless the leadership in Iran changes for the better, that they will have an A-bomb in time. And, frankly. it's what should've been done to North Korea 5 years ago before they had both nukes and the delivery system... When Clinton considered this, a bit over 10 years ago IIRC, it could have been done without much risk of a nuclear counter attack. However, a conventional counter-attack against Seoul was considered probable. While it is unlikely that they could physically reach Seoul with their armies, it is within shelling range of thousands of mortars/artillery pieces owned by North Korea. The estimates of the death toll that I've seen range from about 100k to 250k. My understanding is that Clinton was persuaded to take half a loaf by the leader of South Korea, instead of putting millions in the line of fire. In a real sense, this type of death toll is consistent with what one would expect from the nuclear weapons that North Korea now has.so it has had a mini-MAD capability for a long time now. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
Dan Minette wrote: ... Tom Friedman had two very good columns on Iraq in the last couple of weeks. ... Second, if we withdraw, and the outcome is civil strife/civil war, the middle outcome would be seen. It would be a mitigated disaster, if you would. The Iranian influence on the Shiites would be tempered by that natural Persian/Arab distrust (which goes back centuries). The influence on/acceptability by the Sunni's by AQ would lesson, without the US to hold up as occupiers. The conflict would be bloody, with significant human rights violations by the militia common place (e.g. death squads, mass killings of civilians), but it would probably not draw in other nations. Personally, I think the best solution is to help Iraq turn into three separate countries in a peaceful manner. (One each for the Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites.) This doesn't fit in with our geo-political plans, or those of Turkey, etc. So what? It would be best for the Iraqi people, and doing what's best for them is about the only remaining excuse for the whole war in the first place. ---David Ruling a country is like cooking a small fish, and all that. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
On Mar 21, 2006, at 3:35 PM, Dan Minette wrote: Or a couple of well-placed smart bombs from F-117s or B-2s, or covert special forces, if the US do the right thing and Iran don't. That's my point. THAT'S how to deal with the countries (insane dictatorships or otherwise) that present clear dangers. Pick the threat targets, and destroy them (hopefully without spreading too much uranium and plutonium across the landscape...). It had once been that simple, I think. Israel set Hussein back over a decade with their bombing run. Now, countries often go to much greater lengths to hide their activities. ...and at the same time, we cut our humint budgets 'cause we can do it all with technology. D'oh. :( For example, Lybia was only about a year away from a bomb when Quadafi (sp) Spell it how you like, it'll never transliterate properly! (Gaddafi, Qadafi, whatever... nearly as many variants as Qaeda/Qaida etc) decided to come in out of the cold. Information we obtained after Gulf War I indicates that Hussein was a year or two away when he invaded Kuwait. India and Pakistan both surprised the US, and Western intelligence in general when they tested bombs. Indeed they did. While it is unlikely that they could physically reach Seoul with their armies, it is within shelling range of thousands of mortars/artillery pieces owned by North Korea. The estimates of the death toll that I've seen range from about 100k to 250k. Yeah. I guess a fairly mammoth close air support operation (of the order of the first 6 hours of Desert Storm) would have been needed to protect Seoul. Maybe the cost of that was why Kim has nukes now. *sigh* My understanding is that Clinton was persuaded to take half a loaf by the leader of South Korea, instead of putting millions in the line of fire. In a real sense, this type of death toll is consistent with what one would expect from the nuclear weapons that North Korea now has.so it has had a mini-MAD capability for a long time now. That's one way of looking at it. Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
On Mar 21, 2006, at 3:51 PM, David Hobby wrote: Personally, I think the best solution is to help Iraq turn into three separate countries in a peaceful manner. (One each for the Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites.) Chances are the Shia part would merge with Iran, and possibly the Sunni part with Syria or Jordan, leaving a new Kurdistan. Net gain, no countries... :) This doesn't fit in with our geo-political plans, or those of Turkey, etc. So what? It would be best for the Iraqi people, and doing what's best for them is about the only remaining excuse for the whole war in the first place. Innit. :-i Charlie ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Rewriting The Science
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:38:25 -, Andrew Crystall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 19 Mar 2006 at 22:33, Doug Pensinger wrote: Rewriting The Science http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/17/60minutes/main1415985.shtml or http://tinyurl.com/qoo59 REwriting? Yes, it wasn't clear from the clips I quoted, but as the article points out, the Bush administration is censoring scientific reports. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Is it just me....
Dan wrote: I don't see it as that black and white. Our presence helped fuel the insurgence. The stupidity of the initial policy gave it a chance to flourish and grow. But, I don't see our leaving as ending it. You're right it isn't as cut and dried as I made it sound. At the present time, the US is the controlling force in Iraq. It does have trouble suppressing the insurgency, no doubt, but it prevents other forces from being dominant. The present goals of the US, getting the Iraq armed forces trained to the point where they can at least hold their own with militias and insurgents and to nudge the political factions into a coalition government. Yes, we've heard that mantra for quite a while now and it becomes less and less convincing. If we can't train an appreciable force after being there three years, how long is it going to take? Everyone seems to agree that Al Qaida is provoking the sectarian violence, and that they consider the U.S., not Iraq, their enemy. AQ certainly considers the US an enemy. But, they also see moderate Arab governments as enemies, or at least pawns of the US. They are not inherently opposed to the people of Iraq, but they are inherently opposed to Iraq developing into a moderate Arab state, such as Jordan. Do you believe that they will be able to recruit as easily once we leave? Do you think that they will become the dominant force? Do you think that they will attract as much financial support once we are gone? If that happens, and the parliament actually runs the company, then Bush would have succeeded in Iraq. If he is forced by congress and public pressure to withdraw, he'll get the credit? In any case who cares who gets the credit? Tom Friedman had two very good columns on Iraq in the last couple of weeks. Unfortunately, he's now premium content at the NY Times, so I can't quote him exactly. In one of his columns he looks at three possible outcomes in Iraq. First, he states that there is still some chance that a coalition government will form, and the Iraqi troops will be well trained enough to be the strongest force in Iraq...at least enough to hold their own against insurgents and militias. This is the best possible outcome. Second, if we withdraw, and the outcome is civil strife/civil war, the middle outcome would be seen. It would be a mitigated disaster, if you would. The Iranian influence on the Shiites would be tempered by that natural Persian/Arab distrust (which goes back centuries). The influence on/acceptability by the Sunni's by AQ would lesson, without the US to hold up as occupiers. The conflict would be bloody, with significant human rights violations by the militia common place (e.g. death squads, mass killings of civilians), but it would probably not draw in other nations. The third alternative is that we sit there and babysit the disintegration for years to come. We'll always hope that things will get better, but we'll still be identified as the one to make them worse. Obviously, this analysis tends to lead one to conclude that we can't just stay in Iraq. Yet, it isn't a call for a quick, immediate withdrawal. Rather, it seems to call for a transition from the US being the controlling force to Iraqi forces controlling Iraq. Ideally, of course, it would be the forces belonging to the elected central government. More realistically, both militia power and the power of elected representatives would need to be considered in Iraq. That is probably the best case scenario we can now hope for. Worst case is a civil war that turns very ugly, drawing neighboring countries into the fight. I do not think the Sunni governments around Iraq would stand by and let Sunni civilians be killed by the tens of thousands, for example. One final point: it appears that we finally have competent people on the ground in Iraq. Training the Iraqi military and having an ambassador who actually understands the region are gigantic steps over our initial foolishness. If we implemented the present strategy, if Bush used the post war plan developed by the State Department from the very beginning, it is probable that things would be significantly better than they are now. Indeed, history may show that Bush succeeded, through his arrogance, in snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I think what we've got now _is_ civil war, that our pressence exacerbates the situation and that, as Buckley puts it One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed. http://www.nationalreview.com/buckley/buckley200602241451.asp or http://tinyurl.com/pt4oe -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Some people suffer for their art. Other people leave the suffering to others: Clair, the moment I met you I swear I felt as if something somewhere Had happened to me Which I couldn't see And then The moment I met you again I knew in my heart we were friends It had to be so It couldn't be no But try as hard as I might do I don't know why You get to me in a way I can't describe Words mean so little when you look up and smile I don't care what people say, To me you're more than a child Oh! Clair, Clair Clair, if ever a moment so rare Was captured for all to compare That moment is you It's all that you do But why in spite of our age difference do I cry Each time I leave you I feel I could die Nothing means more to me than hearing you say I'm going to marry you Will you marry me Uncle Ray? Oh! Clair, Clair Clair, I've told you before Don't you dare Get back into bed Can't you see that it's late No you can't have a drink Oh! all right then but wait just a bit While I, in an effort to baby sit, Catch of my breath what there is left of it. You can be murder at this hour of the day But in the morning this hour Will seem a lifetime away Oh! Clair, Clair Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
On Mar 20, 2006, at 7:12 PM, Robert Seeberger wrote: The love between the two of us was dying And it got so bad I knew I had to leave But halfway down that highway when I turned around I saw My little daughter running after me Crying Stay away from my window Stay away from my back door too Disconnect the telephone line Relax baby and draw that blind Kick off your shoes and sit right down Loosen off that pretty French gown Let me pour you a good long drink Ooh baby don't you hesitate cause Tonights the night It's gonna be alright Cause I love you girl Ain't nobody gonna stop us now C'mon angel my hearts on fire Don't deny your man's desire You'd be a fool to stop this tide Spread your wings and let me come inside Tonights the night It's gonna be alright Cause I love you girl Ain't nobody gonna stop us now Don't say a word my virgin child Just let your inhibitions run wild The secret is about to unfold Upstairs before the night's too old Tonights the night It's gonna be alright Cause I love you woman Ain't nobody gonna stop us now Dave Oh, What a Night Land ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hello (hello, hello)
Ok, it's time to bring the room down a little now. I'm going to admit something that will probably get me kicked off the list. I have attended and enjoyed a number of Kenny Loggins concerts over the past couple of decades, and have owned several tapes and CDs of his music. I like his music, and it was helpful when my kid was dying, so step off. But every concert contains at least two songs that I can't bear. The first is Footloose, for which Loggins was imprisoned, but not nearly long enough. The worst is Danger Zone. The crowd always goes wild, I just hunker down and wait for House at Pooh Corner :-) So Right here, for your listening pleasure, live from the Hollywood Bowl, Mr. Kenny Loggins: Revvin' up your engine Listen to her howlin' roar Metal under tension Beggin' you to touch and go Highway to the Danger Zone Ride into the Danger Zone Headin' into twilight Spreadin' out her wings tonight She got you jumpin' off the track And shovin' into overdrive Highway to the Danger Zone I'll take you Right into the Danger Zone You'll never say hello to you Until you get it on the red line overload You'll never know what you can do Until you get it up as high as you can go Out along the edges Always where I burn to be The further on the edge The hotter the intensity Highway to the Danger Zone Gonna take you Right into the Danger Zone Highway to the Danger Zone ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
