Re: Sore losers
On 28/08/2008, at 6:36 AM, Jon Louis Mann wrote: i have to agree that rule britannia were less brutal than most of the other european colonists. Really? I'm sure Native Americans, original Australians (especially in Tasmania where they were wiped out), the fuzzywuzzies who were made to build railways in Africa and so on would disagree with that. Britain has just as shameful a past in slavery and extermination as the French, Dutch, Belgians, Portugese... Maybe more. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
On 28/08/2008, at 1:53 PM, Doug Pensinger wrote: Charlie wrote: I could be wrong, but doesn't the rule have something to do with the adverse effect of the extreme amount of stress on a young, developing body? If the rule was arbitrary, why don't they have it for other sports? They do. Divers, 14. Fencers, 17. And so on. That's kinda what I meant. Its not 16 straight across the board. Ah, I get you. Yes, it's not arbitrary as different sports set limits based on medical advice and risk assessments for their own sports. It's the same reason U16 footballer don't play 90mins, they have shorter matches. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
At 11:06 PM Wednesday 8/27/2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: Ronn! wrote: What do you do when several times each year in your town kids get shot dead in the park, walking down the street, standing on the balcony outside their apartment door, or when a bullet comes through the window or wall (all of them being collateral damage rather than the target of whatever gang or gangs are doing the shooting)? Why that's obvious, you arm the kids! Doug No, you implement a curfew where if the kids aren't home by 9pm (11 Fri Sat) their parents have to pay $500 for the first offense. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Portuguese expansion and Religion is Evil [was: Sore losers]
Charlie Bell wrote: Really? I'm sure Native Americans, original Australians (especially in Tasmania where they were wiped out), the fuzzywuzzies who were made to build railways in Africa and so on would disagree with that. Britain has just as shameful a past in slavery and extermination as the French, Dutch, Belgians, Portugese... Maybe more. I think we must separate what was deliberate extermination, accidental extermination and assimilation. The Portuguese Empire had this crazy idea that half of the world was theirs, to make them good catholics sudits of the King of Portugal. The craziest thing is that they _almost_ succeeded, at an enormous cost to Portugal itself. I've read somewhere that between 1500 and 1580 (or so, when Dom Sebastião vanished and Portugal was anschlussed by Spain) the population of european Portugal was reduced to _half_, as they desperately tried to grab half of the world. What I mean is that the portuguese genocide of brazilian natives was either accidental (diseases) or assimilation. Each native tribe that spontaneously converted to catholicism - and many of them did, as the technology of the invaders was really impressive - was immediately accepted in equal terms with the portuguese colonists. They wouldn't be able to conquer such a vast area in so little time otherwise - just to compare, by 1580 or so all coastline of Brazil was firmly secured in Portuguese control, and then they (and here I am almost replacing they by we...) began digging to the inside. OTOH, there were some episodes of deliberate genocide, with - as usual (WTG! take note on this! Religion is evil!!!) - a theological justification. Canibal tribes were considered soulless (how can a canibal resurect on Judgment Day, when most of this flesh comes from other people? It's absurd that God would resurect a man with missing parts, so the natural conclusion is that canibals don't have a soul), and were fair game to extermination. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Portuguese expansion and Religion is Evil [was: Sore losers]
On 28/08/2008, at 10:43 PM, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Charlie Bell wrote: Really? I'm sure Native Americans, original Australians (especially in Tasmania where they were wiped out), the fuzzywuzzies who were made to build railways in Africa and so on would disagree with that. Britain has just as shameful a past in slavery and extermination as the French, Dutch, Belgians, Portugese... Maybe more. I think we must separate what was deliberate extermination, accidental extermination and assimilation. That's fair. What I mean is that the portuguese genocide of brazilian natives was either accidental (diseases) ...well, many of the diseases were deliberately spread, but yes, some were inadvertantly introduced too. or assimilation. Each native tribe that spontaneously converted to catholicism - and many of them did, as the technology of the invaders was really impressive - was immediately accepted in equal terms with the portuguese colonists. Yep. They wouldn't be able to conquer such a vast area in so little time otherwise - just to compare, by 1580 or so all coastline of Brazil was firmly secured in Portuguese control, and then they (and here I am almost replacing they by we...) began digging to the inside. OTOH, there were some episodes of deliberate genocide, with - as usual (WTG! take note on this! Religion is evil!!!) - a theological justification. Canibal tribes were considered soulless The irony when (many/most) Catholics believe that they are literally eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Christ does not escape me, but I'm sure it did them. But yes, the Portuguse may not have been *as* bad as the Spanish, say. But pretty much all of the European colonial powers killed a lot of people in their quest for control of as much land as possible, and it's just a matter of degrees really. Charlie. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin facebook fan page!
Reminder to join my Facebook fan page! http://www.facebook.com/pages/David-Brin/22358129265 Hoping U R all thriving! With cordial regards, David Brin http://www.davidbrin.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Sore losers
i have to agree that rule britannia were less brutal than most of the other european colonists. jon Really? I'm sure Native Americans, original Australians (especially in Tasmania where they were wiped out), the fuzzywuzzies who were made to build railways in Africa and so on would disagree with that. Britain has just as shameful a past in slavery and extermination as the French, Dutch, Belgians, Portuguese... Maybe more. Charlie. you could be right, although i read a history of columbus where he would torture and executed the peaceful native americans that welcomed him, bearing gifts, etc. cutting off their hands when they couldn't give him more gold. I believe the pope divided up the indies between the portuguese and the spanish. jon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Enough!
Did anyone catch The Speech? I was inspired and I think against all odds that he has a chance. What a watershed moment in the history of humanity that would be. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
