Re: Chemicals R Us
Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br wrote: Deborah Harrell quoted: A new report from the Danish Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), highlights the critical risks facing toddlers from gender bending chemicals in everyday products. Chemicals like phthalates (found in PVC and fragrances), In fact, phthalates are found in PET, not PVC. PVC is polyvinylchlorine, the polymer of CH2=CHCl, PET is polyethyleneterephthalate, the copolymer of terephthalic acid and ethyleneglycol (with maybe some i/y changed - in Portuguese, there's no such distinction). Yes, the correct chemical is listed in the other article. Although IIRC, PVC production is linked to cancer of some sort, and that was suspected in the 50s by industry doctors (Dow? Monsanto? I can't remember what I posted exactly on that several years ago); it was not made public for a number of years. ...Fewer boys are being born. That's great news! The world needs less boys and more girls. Excess boys cause wars. wry Nevertheless, it might be a problem if we wind up with a passle of hermaprodites (who are usually sterile)...Could make an interesting SF story, however. I think we will find that miniscule quantities of multiple organic compounds adversely affect humans in numerous ways. I think it was established that benzene is carninogen. But I am not aware that phthalates, just because they are aromatic, are harmful. In fact, a few aminoacids are aromatic. ? So you don't find research regarding various petroleum compounds legitimate? We are well aware in the medical field of multiple adverse effects of various organic - in the sense of petroleum/industry-related - chemicals on healthe. And no, I who at one point could fill an entire blackboard with the Krebs cycle and multiple connecting metabolic pathwaysincluding peptide synthesis, had _no idea_ that some amino acids (not to mention hormones etc.) were aromatic... hey, really!!! Debbi Don't Want No Tryptophan Or Steroids Maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
From: Alberto Monteiro albm...@centroin.com.br skippage I think it was established that benzene is carninogen. But I am not aware that phthalates, just because they are aromatic, are harmful. In fact, a few aminoacids are aromatic. I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Weekly Chat Reminder
The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over ten years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but the chat goes on... and we want more recruits! Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion. We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly... -(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown. The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time. There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight hours after the start time. If no-one is there when you arrive just wait around a while for the next person to show up! If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to do is send your web browser to: http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/ ..And you can connect directly from the NEW new web interface! -- William T Goodall Mail : w...@wtgab.demon.co.uk Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ This message was sent automatically using launchd. But even if WTG is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
Deborah Harrell wrote: A new report from the Danish Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA), highlights the critical risks facing toddlers from gender bending chemicals in everyday products. Chemicals like phthalates (found in PVC and fragrances), In fact, phthalates are found in PET, not PVC. PVC is polyvinylchlorine, the polymer of CH2=CHCl, PET is polyethyleneterephthalate, the copolymer of terephthalic acid and ethyleneglycol (with maybe some i/y changed - in Portuguese, there's no such distinction). Yes, the correct chemical is listed in the other article. Although IIRC, PVC production is linked to cancer of some sort, and that was suspected in the 50s by industry doctors (Dow? Monsanto? I can't remember what I posted exactly on that several years ago); it was not made public for a number of years. I hate those AFTs. Phthalates are not Terephthalates; and phthalates are used in addition to PVC (that's what found in means). So, the original text was correct, and my English skills deficient :-( But if PVC is carcinogen than we could suffer the same doom the lead-piped romans suffered... ...Fewer boys are being born. That's great news! The world needs less boys and more girls. Excess boys cause wars. wry Nevertheless, it might be a problem if we wind up with a passle of hermaprodites (who are usually sterile)...Could make an interesting SF story, however. Probably society would adapt to make female-female reproduction possible. We would end up in a Lesbian World, not much unlike Brin's Stratos. I think it was established that benzene is carninogen. But I am not aware that phthalates, just because they are aromatic, are harmful. In fact, a few aminoacids are aromatic. ? So you don't find research regarding various petroleum compounds legitimate? We are well aware in the medical field of multiple adverse effects of various organic - in the sense of petroleum/industry-related - chemicals on healthe. What? Nothing that the oil industry produces is harmful! :-P And no, I who at one point could fill an entire blackboard with the Krebs cycle and multiple connecting metabolic pathways including peptide synthesis, had _no idea_ that some amino acids (not to mention hormones etc.) were aromatic... hey, really!!! Sometimes we can learn just by having fun editing Chemboxes in Wikipedia :-) Alberto Monteiro aka albmont ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
At 11:58 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) Just Don't Ask An Astrophysicist To Define Metals 'Cuz He'll Include Carbon As One Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
At 01:36 PM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Alberto Monteiro wrote: But if PVC is carcinogen than we could suffer the same doom the lead-piped romans suffered... At least we won't go plumb crazy. You Can Lead A Horse To Water But A Pencil Has To Be Lead Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
At 05:42 PM Tuesday 11/17/2009, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC I'm guessing I wasn't clear and that you didn't go through the list at the site. The poll is for visitors to the site to rank the items in the 50 Best list. When I was there #1 was what they referred to as the Electric Eye, #2 was the 60W LED light bulb (no word on when they'll come out with one to replace 100W bulbs here at least 60W aren't bright enough to light up the room well enough from the ceiling fixture (even though the ceiling is painted white) or to read by), and bringing up the tail at #50 was the cloned puppy. Dog Gone Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Chemicals R Us
At 11:28 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: And no, I who at one point could fill an entire blackboard with the Krebs cycle and multiple connecting metabolic pathwaysincluding peptide synthesis, had _no idea_ that some amino acids (not to mention hormones etc.) were aromatic... I did, even though on those occasions I need to refer to the Krebs cycle I use a chart. hey, really!!! Debbi Don't Want No Tryptophan Or Steroids Maru So, no turkey next Thursday, then? . . . ronn! :) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On 11/18/2009 7:00:59 PM, Ronn! Blankenship (ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net) wrote: At 11:58 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) Just Don't Ask An Astrophysicist To Define Metals 'Cuz He'll Include Carbon As One Maru Well why not? Calcium is a metal too isnt it? xponent Common Sense Is Worth Little Without Knowledge Maru rob ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:12 PM, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: At 05:42 PM Tuesday 11/17/2009, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC I'm guessing I wasn't clear and that you didn't go through the list at the site. The poll is for visitors to the site to rank the items in the 50 Best list. When I was there #1 was what they referred to as the Electric Eye, #2 was the 60W LED light bulb (no word on when they'll come out with one to replace 100W bulbs — here at least 60W aren't bright enough to light up the room well enough from the ceiling fixture (even though the ceiling is painted white) or to read by), and bringing up the tail at #50 was the cloned puppy. Dog Gone Maru . . . ronn! :) My main gripe about LED lighting is that, with the sole exception of IKEA, I think, everyone seems to love cool white LED's in lighting fixtures. I very much prefer warm white phosphor GaN LED's (or even yellow/orange GaAs LED's in some applications). I've just never been a big fan of that blue-white color balance, never liked it in fluorescent tubes and really don't like it in LED's. Of course, it seems like maybe the GaN types are mature enough now that people aren't as eager to show off the fact that they can get blue LED's. I've become very annoyed by that color, particularly the shorter-wavelength variety. Plus they have way too much power dissipation for some applications. :p HANK: A man came by from the Shiney Pines trailer park, and he said you still got a trailer there. LUANNE: No I don't, it tipped over. HANK: But it's still there. LUANNE: No, it tipped over! HANK: Luanne, let me try to explain. I have a beer can. I tip it over. Now, is it still there? LUANNE: I can't live in a beer can. I can live in a trailer, but I don't have a trailer because the trailer tipped over! ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Nomenclature (was) Chemicals R Us
On Nov 18, 2009, at 8:09 PM, Rceeberger wrote: On 11/18/2009 7:00:59 PM, Ronn! Blankenship (ronn_blankens...@bellsouth.net ) wrote: At 11:58 AM Wednesday 11/18/2009, Deborah Harrell wrote: I'll bet there's a difference of wording -- 'organic chemistry' here primarily refers to petrochemicals; 'biochemistry' refers to life-related chemicals. This is an incorrect terminology in my opinion, but I can't change what is taught in colleges... Debbi Words, Words - What Is Brain?! Maru :) I agree with you. Organic chemistry is the chemistry of carbon compounds. Though usually with the omission of most metal carbonates, the chemistry of which is usually covered in the section on inorganic chemistry. That's how *I* teach it in colleges, anyway. ;) Just Don't Ask An Astrophysicist To Define Metals 'Cuz He'll Include Carbon As One Maru Well why not? Calcium is a metal too isnt it? xponent Common Sense Is Worth Little Without Knowledge Maru rob So is silicon .. well, sort of, anyway .. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -- attributed to Lazarus Long by Robert A. Heinlein ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: List of The 50 Best Inventions of 2009
On Nov 17, 2009, at 5:42 PM, Andrew Crystall wrote: On 17 Nov 2009 at 12:48, Ronn! Blankenship wrote: starts here . . . The Best Invention of the Year: NASA's Ares Rockets The 50 Best Inventions of 2009 - TIME http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1934027_1934003_1933945,00.html http://tinyurl.com/yl4evjq (Includes the 5 Worst Inventions of the Year and a poll for voting on the ranking: Ares is not #1 in that poll.) The Ares I darn well should be. I mean, the Ares V is a good enough concept for bulk launch, never mind that the Saturn V was carrying arround 75% of the same payload in the late 60's, but sticking Astronaughts on top of a rocket at this stage? Insane. Spaceplanes, allready. AndrewC Considering the fact that the only two loss of vehicle and crew events NASA has ever had to deal with that actually involved going into or coming back from space (not counting Apollo 1 in that, as it was sitting on the ground when the fire occurred) involved a spaceplane design -- one due to an SRB hull joint failure that burned through the ET wall, the other due to a large (and undetected) hole in the RCC leading edge of the wing -- and since the spaceplane design in question does *not* include any abort options from liftoff to the beginning of the RTLS window, and NASA is crossing their fingers that nobody ever has to try an RTLS abort, I'd have to question why putting crew on top of a rocket is insane. I'd much rather ride an Orion/Ares I than I would an STS flight. The Orion/Ares I has a launch escape system at least as good as the one used for Apollo, and has the SRB in the only place I'd really want one -- well aft of the liquid fuel tanks and the crew cabin. It may not be the *best* design, granted, but it's better than STS in a lot of ways. About the only thing Ares I/Ares V can't do is retrieve satellites and bring them back to earth. And I can't quite recall STS ever using that capability, honestly. Go ahead and do it, you can apologize later. -- RADM Grace Hopper, 1906-1992 The sunset is an illusion, but the beauty is real. -- Richard Bach ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: Lifestyle changes better than drugs
I'm sorry that this went first to just Debbi, but the mail went to me and brin-l, and my reply to user just went to her, not brin-l. Debbi convinced me that this study found a long term weight loss. From studies I'm familiar with, weight loss is usually short term...the average weight change 5+ years after various diets have been tried is positive; yet this study has found that there was an overwhelming number of people who kept at least a third of the weight off. So, I looked around, and there were few free references to long term weight loss that were not advertisements. I didn't feel like buying papers; so I just found a couple of free references. http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/pa-files/pa-04-092.html http://tinyurl.com/yds2l83 The first is a grant announcement from the NIH for studies looking into why people don't keep off weight. The second states with a footnote that I'd have to pay to refer to how weight loss is rarely maintained. Then I got creative, and found other studies with long term follow ups, which also showed about a third of the weight staying off. Why the contradiction? Then it hit mestudies usually _pay_ participants. Someone who is paid to stay in a study, and gets support for weight loss during that entire time is a unique individual. Thus, they are far more likely to maintain weight gain than folks who do not have this type of backing. Thus, we have a reason for the inconsistency, and why most folks don't keep weight off after they diet. I think there is little argument that losing weight is the first option for pre-diabetics, people with high cholesterol etc. But, in the real world, physicians tell people they need to change their lifestyle and most don't. That's why I see a strong correlation between abstinence before marriage and fidelity in marriage (include gay marriages if you will) as the best form of AIDS prevention and lifestyle changes as the best means of improving health. Both, if practiced, have shown tremendous results. Condoms, for example, only decrease the chances of pregnancy and getting AIDS, they don't prevent either. Given the fact that most folks are promiscuous, and education doesn't prevent it, talking about safer sex in schools makes sense. Just like it makes sense for a physician to tell a patient to try diet and exercise at the first signs of weight related problems and then go to meds at the next visit when the weight is either unchanged or increased. Dan M. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
