Re: Abortion and Liberal Democrats Re:TheAmericanPoliticalLandscape Today
On Tue, 17 May 2005 23:41:30 -0400, JDG wrote ... if the standard liberal Democratic position is *not* to, as Dan M. put it, to defend all abortions - then surely these liberal Democrats believe that some abortions should not occur. And if they believe that some abortions should not occur, one would expect them to support restrictions on these abortions that should not occur. Am I correct in believing that by restrictions, you mean government regulation exclusively, not any other kind of restrictions? And that by defend, you mean something like fails to support criminalization? It is true that the Democratic Party has failed to support government regulation of abortion. It has also eagerly supported domestic and global family planning, counseling and services for crisis pregancies and other compassion-based ways to support, heal and nurture women who face this choice. I think that is a far better investment in our future than creation of an FBI abortion task force and loading our courts and prisons with prosecution and punishment of doctors, not to mention further traumatizing women who would have already gone through a terrible trauma. For me, this issue presents one of life's challenges to live with conflict, by regarding abortion as a terribly sad thing, yet also support those who fight to prevent it from being criminalized. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion and Liberal Democrats Re:TheAmericanPoliticalLandscape Today
At 08:26 AM 5/17/2005 -0700, Nick wrote: Fine then, Nick, then answer the challenge!Name one type of abortion that Liberal Democrats have consistently failed to defend from restriction! I named *all* types. You're still failing to make a distinction between defending abortion and defending the legality of abortion. But Nick, I don't think you have provided any evidence that your characterization of liberal Democratic views on abortion is more accurate than Dan M.'s. For example, if the standard liberal Democratic position is *not* to, as Dan M. put it, to defend all abortions - then surely these liberal Democrats believe that some abortions should not occur. And if they believe that some abortions should not occur, one would expect them to support restrictions on these abortions that should not occur. Yet, do you have any evidence of this? At this point, I am going to presume that you have conceded that the standard liberal Democratic position is to oppose all of the restrictions I identified, as you have repeatedly declined to identify one for which the standard liberal Democratic position is to support that restriction - even though such identification would constitute proof of your original argument. So, Nick, if the standard liberal Democratic position is as you described, and not as Dan M. describe, then: -why is there standard opposition to mandatory waiting periods? -why is there standard opposition to letting doctors and hospitals refuse to provide abortions based on their own conscience? -why is there standard opposition to having minors notify a parent, guardian, or judge? -why is there standard opposition to a prohibition on partial birth/dilation and extraction abortions? -why is there standard opposition to a prohibition on abortions after the fetus is viable outside the womb? -why is there standard opposition to a prohibition on gender-selection abortions? If there is no explanation for the above, then Dan M.'s description of the standard liberal Democratic position would seem far, far, more accurate than whatever you seem to be arguing. JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Abortion and Liberal Democrats Re:TheAmericanPoliticalLandscape Today
At 10:46 PM 5/17/2005 -0500, John Horn wrote: Abortion will never be rare until there are no unwanted pregnancies. John, Before I respond to your other points, the above is clearly some kind of typo. I don't want to put words in your mouth - so would you care to make the correction you intend? JDG ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Abortion and Liberal Democrats Re:TheAmericanPoliticalLandscape Today
Behalf Of JDG At 10:46 PM 5/17/2005 -0500, John Horn wrote: Abortion will never be rare until there are no unwanted pregnancies. John, Before I respond to your other points, the above is clearly some kind of typo. I don't want to put words in your mouth - so would you care to make the correction you intend? No, that's what I meant to say. Where's the typo? It's late here but I don't think I'm *that* tired. Another way of saying it is: As long as there are unwanted pregnancies there will be abortions. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Abortion and Liberal Democrats Re:TheAmericanPoliticalLandscape Today
John Horn wrote: Behalf Of JDG At 10:46 PM 5/17/2005 -0500, John Horn wrote: Abortion will never be rare until there are no unwanted pregnancies. John, Before I respond to your other points, the above is clearly some kind of typo. I don't want to put words in your mouth - so would you care to make the correction you intend? No, that's what I meant to say. Where's the typo? It's late here but I don't think I'm *that* tired. Another way of saying it is: As long as there are unwanted pregnancies there will be abortions. I don't see anything wrong with it either and I like the first statement better than the second because all abortions are not due to unwanted pregnancies. In fact I was just about to post sometning along those lines myself. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
