Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
Kevin wrote: Consider Phlebas first, right Charlie? 8^) That was the first (and so far only) Banks book I have tried. I got about half-way before I gave up. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL zwil...@zwilnik.com Linux User #333216 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying. -- Woody Allen ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
Kevin wrote: I wrote: Consider Phlebas first, right Charlie? 8^) That was the first (and so far only) Banks book I have tried. I got about half-way before I gave up. Hey, to each his own. CP is one of my favorite books, period, but if we all liked the same stuff the world would be a pretty boaring place. What specifically didn't you like? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Rceebergerrceeber...@comcast.net wrote: I'm in the middle of The Bridge by Banks. Just finished The Algebraist and Matter by the same with the M. I really really liked Matter. It has I think supplanted Excession as my favorite Banks. The Algebraist was real good also, if a bit less serious than the typical M novel. I just inherited about 6 books by Banks, and I'll be starting them as soon as I finish re-reading Variable Star. VS is credited to Spider Robinson and Robert A. Heinlein. Robinson actually wrote it from extensive but unfinished notes by Heinlein, and I have enjoyed this book immensely. -- Mauro Diotallevi The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
Mauro Diotallevi wrote: On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Rceebergerrceeber...@comcast.net wrote: I'm in the middle of The Bridge by Banks. Just finished The Algebraist and Matter by the same with the M. I really really liked Matter. It has I think supplanted Excession as my favorite Banks. The Algebraist was real good also, if a bit less serious than the typical M novel. I just inherited about 6 books by Banks, and I'll be starting them as soon as I finish re-reading Variable Star. VS is credited to Spider Robinson and Robert A. Heinlein. Robinson actually wrote it from extensive but unfinished notes by Heinlein, and I have enjoyed this book immensely. Consider Phlebas first, right Charlie? 8^) Doug Not a git, maru ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
Doug Pensinger wrote: Mauro Diotallevi wrote: On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 8:07 PM, Rceebergerrceeber...@comcast.net mailto:rceeber...@comcast.net wrote: I'm in the middle of The Bridge by Banks. Just finished The Algebraist and Matter by the same with the M. I really really liked Matter. It has I think supplanted Excession as my favorite Banks. The Algebraist was real good also, if a bit less serious than the typical M novel. I just inherited about 6 books by Banks, and I'll be starting them as soon as I finish re-reading Variable Star. VS is credited to Spider Robinson and Robert A. Heinlein. Robinson actually wrote it from extensive but unfinished notes by Heinlein, and I have enjoyed this book immensely. Consider Phlebas first, right Charlie? 8^) That was the first (and so far only) Banks book I have tried. I got about half-way before I gave up. Regards, -- Kevin B. O'Brien TANSTAAFL zwil...@zwilnik.com Linux User #333216 I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it through not dying. -- Woody Allen ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
At 10:37 AM Tuesday 7/14/2009, Nick Arnett wrote: I've been reading so much lately... been thinking it's time to post some quick thoughts about recent readings and ask what others are reading, too. I just started The Caryatids by Bruce Sterling. Somewhat over the top in terms of apocalyptic technology, but I can't help liking the fact that it is set on the island of Mljet, Croatia, where my namesake, great-grampa Nikolai Strazicich, lived. Mainspring by Jay Lake reminded me quite a bit of Anathem in tone - religion and science fiction set in an older age. Goes much more mystical than Anathem, however. A bit of a page-turner. I read Escapement a few months ago. It was at the local branch library. I've looked for Mainspring at the main library when I've been downtown, so far without success. Anathem struck me as somewhat desperate in its invention of language, but it all made sense in the end. I'm not sure the book deserved to be so long, but on the other hand, I was never particularly tempted to give up on it. Stephenson knows how to keep the suspense up. Now my mind is going blank as I try to remember what else I've read lately... Well, it'll come to me and I'll post again. Nick Me, too. . . . ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
On Jul 14, 2009, at 8:37 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: I've been reading so much lately... been thinking it's time to post some quick thoughts about recent readings and ask what others are reading, too. Currently up, the latest installment of _The Year's Best SF_ edited by Garner Dozois. -- Warren Ockrassa | @waxis Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
I've been reading so much lately... been thinking it's time to post some quick thoughts about recent readings and ask what others are reading, too. I just started The Caryatids by Bruce Sterling. Somewhat over the top in terms of apocalyptic technology, but I can't help liking the fact that it is set on the island of Mljet, Croatia, where my namesake, great-grampa Nikolai Strazicich, lived. Mainspring by Jay Lake reminded me quite a bit of Anathem in tone - religion and science fiction set in an older age. Goes much more mystical than Anathem, however. A bit of a page-turner. Anathem struck me as somewhat desperate in its invention of language, but it all made sense in the end. I'm not sure the book deserved to be so long, but on the other hand, I was never particularly tempted to give up on it. Stephenson knows how to keep the suspense up. Now my mind is going blank as I try to remember what else I've read lately... Well, it'll come to me and I'll post again. Nick ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
On Jul 14, 2009, at 10:37 AM, Nick Arnett wrote: Anathem struck me as somewhat desperate in its invention of language, but it all made sense in the end. I'm not sure the book deserved to be so long, but on the other hand, I was never particularly tempted to give up on it. Stephenson knows how to keep the suspense up. The thing I enjoyed most about Anathem was the way the world of the story itself shifted as the story progressed, and the way it kept surprising me even in spite of the numerous clues dropped along the way. The best kind of surprise, for me, is a kind of paraprosdokian, where the story is leading toward what looks like a familiar path but takes an intriguing left turn right when you least expect it to and the unexpected direction is the one that makes the most sense after you recover from the surprise. And Anathem is definitely full of those. :) The language seemed to be Stephenson's solution to the problem of how to tell a story in an alien universe where the language naturally wouldn't be intelligible to us at all otherwise, and I thought it was about as good a solution to that problem as any, and a little more honest than most in that it captured at least a little of the difference in thought processes that stem from different language without going so far into the language as to distract from the story. It's a fundamentally non-trivial (and quite difficult) problem that I thought he solved at least well enough to not bother me. (I'm something of an anomaly that way, though, as my brain tends to build its own dictionary somewhat dynamically and I'm used to following unusual linguistic usage.) If I say much more than that I'll spoil the story for those who haven't read it .. Almost nothing that trickles down is fit to consume. -- Davidson Loehr ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: Whatcha reading? (was Re: In despair for the state of SF)
On 7/14/2009 10:37:23 AM, Nick Arnett (nick.arn...@gmail.com) wrote: I've been reading so much lately... been thinking it's time to post some quick thoughts about recent readings and ask what others are reading, too. I just started The Caryatids by Bruce Sterling. Somewhat over the top in terms of apocalyptic technology, but I can't help liking the fact that it is set on the island of Mljet, Croatia, where my namesake, great-grampa Nikolai Strazicich, lived. Mainspring by Jay Lake reminded me quite a bit of Anathem in tone - religion and science fiction set in an older age. Goes much more mystical than Anathem, however. A bit of a page-turner. Anathem struck me as somewhat desperate in its invention of language, but it all made sense in the end. I'm not sure the book deserved to be so long, but on the other hand, I was never particularly tempted to give up on it. Stephenson knows how to keep the suspense up. Now my mind is going blank as I try to remember what else I've read lately... Well, it'll come to me and I'll post again. Nick I'm in the middle of The Bridge by Banks. Just finished The Algebraist and Matter by the same with the M. I really really liked Matter. It has I think supplanted Excession as my favorite Banks. The Algebraist was real good also, if a bit less serious than the typical M novel. xponent ABridged Maru rob ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: In despair for the state of SF
Dan M wrote: Film, definitely. But, I'd argue that graphic novels combine literature and art. Good art can be part of storytelling. For example, Guernica by Picasso certainly tells a story. (...) Nazi thug to Picasso: You did this? Picasso to nazi thug: No, you did this Alberto Monteiro PS: probably a myth, but the story is good ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: In despair for the state of SF
From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Danny O'Dare Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 3:05 AM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: In despair for the state of SF There is so much good science fiction - not to mention 'slipstream', 'New Weird', etc - out there (old and new) why waste your time reading the crap? One thing I've noticed, however, is that the shelf space for what I, and from what I read most folks on Brin-L consider good sci-fi continues to shrink, being replaced by game based series, movie based series, etc. BTW, I don't think graphic novels inherently fit under the crap category. I thought The Watchman was very good. My son and I had one big argument over it. He argued that it was good literature. I argued it was good, but a different art form than literature because it used graphics to tell so much of the story. Dan M. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
Dan M wrote: There is so much good science fiction - not to mention 'slipstream', 'New Weird', etc - out there (old and new) why waste your time reading the crap? One thing I've noticed, however, is that the shelf space for what I, and from what I read most folks on Brin-L consider good sci-fi continues to shrink, being replaced by game based series, movie based series, etc. I think that is probably more the bookstores that you shop than an objective reality shift... I mean, sci-fi has always had a strong relationship with its pulp and mass media sides. If anything, the prominence of the game based sci-fi and movie based sci-fi should be a sign that that the industry is successful and healthy. Also, there is more speculative fiction slipping across the aisles into other categories. There have been a number of books added to my sci-fi wishlist recently that are categorized in the Literature areas of most bookstores, due to both the high brow prominence of some authors toeing into the waters and what appears to be an increasing tolerance by the literary elites for sci-fi/speculative themes and hooks. BTW, I don't think graphic novels inherently fit under the crap category. I thought The Watchman was very good. My son and I had one big argument over it. He argued that it was good literature. I argued it was good, but a different art form than literature because it used graphics to tell so much of the story. Certainly the graphic novel is a different medium for literature than the traditional novel, but graphic novels fit well within my definition of literature. Certainly semantics could be argued for days, but I think that graphic novels do trend closer to literature than, say, art or film. We could argue that perhaps a new term needs to be created to cluster graphic novels and illustrated novels distinctly from literature, but I don't see a strong need to differentiate between the type of literature that is the 'modern' graphic novel and 'classic literature'. Both are welcome to me, but then I'm not a high brow book critic. -- --Max Battcher-- http://worldmaker.net ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
RE: In despair for the state of SF
-Original Message- From: brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com [mailto:brin-l-boun...@mccmedia.com] On Behalf Of Max Battcher One thing I've noticed, however, is that the shelf space for what I, and from what I read most folks on Brin-L consider good sci-fi continues to shrink, being replaced by game based series, movie based series, etc. I think that is probably more the bookstores that you shop than an objective reality shift... I mean, sci-fi has always had a strong relationship with its pulp and mass media sides. If anything, the prominence of the game based sci-fi and movie based sci-fi should be a sign that that the industry is successful and healthy. What I am talking about is this: I've been going to a national chain: Barnes and Nobel's for over a decade. The amount of shelf space devoted to Sci-Fi/Fantasy has been constant during that time. As time went on, there has been less shelf space available for standard sci-fi and fantasy, and more for TV, movie and game based serialization. You know, the books that make you appreciate what a good writer Kevin Anderson really is. :-) We've recently had a Border's books open and it has similar ratios. When big bookstores like these change (they've driven Walden's Books out of business) it's probably not just the local store. Also, there is more speculative fiction slipping across the aisles into other categories. There have been a number of books added to my sci-fi wishlist recently that are categorized in the Literature areas of most bookstores, due to both the high brow prominence of some authors toeing into the waters and what appears to be an increasing tolerance by the literary elites for sci-fi/speculative themes and hooks. I guess. I do know that the books that are off the radar are the Evangelical Christian books that are the best selling books without appearing at all on the NY Times bestsellers list, because they are sold in stores that the NY Times doesn't look at. As much as I dislike the Left Behind series, they, after the Potter Series, were the best selling book series of the last decade...just off the radar. Certainly the graphic novel is a different medium for literature than the traditional novel, but graphic novels fit well within my definition of literature. Certainly semantics could be argued for days, but I think that graphic novels do trend closer to literature than, say, art or film. Film, definitely. But, I'd argue that graphic novels combine literature and art. Good art can be part of storytelling. For example, Guernica by Picasso certainly tells a story. I see graphic novels, at their best, as a new art form on the border between literature and painting. Which has real potential, since, unlike pure art, hasn't been explored to death over the last few centuries. Dan M. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
I'm sorry you read this turkey, but the KJA is a hack and has been for years... Damon. On Jul 4, 2009 4:19 AM, Warren Ockrassa war...@nightwares.com wrote: A week or so back I finished _Hidden Empire_, the first book in Kevin J. Anderson's Saga of Seven Suns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_Seven_Suns I discovered this one late -- the series is out now in pulp, and I was unaware of it prior to that. I have some things I just need to vent. [spoilers -- ha, as if] What an unbelievable turd. While it's not unusual for a novelist to foreshadow, Anderson basically forecudgeled. His aliens are disinteresting in the extreme; the only marginally noteworthy society was the Green Priests and their symbiosis with their worldforest, and they were human. The obtuseness of his characters and societies is unforgivable. When you compress the core of a gas giant and turn it into a star, notice what appear to be diamondlike nodules shooting out from the new sun, and then see diamondlike ships attacking cloud-harvesters on other gas giants, you have to be a cretin of genuinely universal proportions to not understand what happened. Yet that's exactly what occurs: No one knows why the hydrogues are attacking cloud harvesters! The alien allies of Earth are anthropomorphic and capable of interbreeding with humans -- oh come on -- and have a history recitation that's millennia deep. Their leader even knows about the hydrogues, though it's a buried secret, yet he still manages somehow to be stunned and ignorant of their attacks, sources, reasoning, etc. Anderson has a husband/wife team of xenoarchaeologists who've uncovered both the wormhole tech used to create suns of gas giants, and teleportation tech used by a long-dead race called the Klikiss. Yup, just the two of them. Not a team, no student support, just a couple of kooks digging up fossil civilizations. And they reactivate a teleport panel using, essentially, camp-light batteries. Those must be some damn impressive batteries. One can only assume they're radically unlike the Li-ion cells in iPhones. And as for the cloud harvesters -- well, early in the narrative we have a captain of one of these things STEPPING OUTSIDE ONTO AN OBSERVATION DECK without breathing apparatus as his skymine sucks up free hydrogen. They even keep doves. Outside. In the atmosphere of the gas giant. While harvesting hydrogen. Almost every page contains a slap to the face of science and SF; it's not even fantasy. It's just a childish notion of magical settings placed for the convenience of plot and story, without any effort made to actually consider what's feasible and what is not. But what tweaked me most was the interview section at the end of the book, where Anderson says he wanted to write a saga that included everything he claims to love about SF. He mentions _Dune_ particularly -- no surprise since he worked with Brian Herbert on continuing Frank Herbert's exploration of that storyline. The only thing I can conclude is that Anderson never understood what Herbert accomplished with _Dune_, and more generally, he doesn't understand SF at all -- least of all what makes a good SF story. Any decent editor in the genre would have suggested two things to him: Rethink. Redact. If this is the state SF is sliding into, particularly in the wake of the _Trek_ and _Transformers_ noise-machines, what the hell do we have left? -- Warren Ockrassa | @waxis Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
There is so much good science fiction - not to mention 'slipstream', 'New Weird', etc - out there (old and new) why waste your time reading the crap? DANNY 2009/7/5 Doug Pensinger brig...@zo.com xponent Matter Maru rob Or Anathem, eh? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com -- It is better to be Hated for what you are, than Loved for what you are not. (Andre Gide) ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:48 PM, John Williams wrote: I just checked the reviews on the book you mentioned, and the bad reviews talk about many of the same problems that you mentioned. Yes, they do -- but unfortch, I didn't have net access at the time I was considering. I was thinking of the first couple of Dune revisions and how they really weren't that godawful, and ... and well... It just galls me -- galls, I say! -- to think that KJA is classed as SF along with Le Guin. Delany, Lem and Certain Other Writers whom we can think of, without any real attempt made at distinguishing *quality*. -- Warren Ockrassa | @waxis Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
On Jul 4, 2009, at 5:48 PM, xponentrob wrote: Uh..why aren't you reading something good? Well, yeah, that was kinda the point. :\ All I can say is I didn't know better at the time... -- Warren Ockrassa | @waxis Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Warren Ockrassawar...@nightwares.com wrote: On Jul 4, 2009, at 5:48 PM, xponentrob wrote: Uh..why aren't you reading something good? Well, yeah, that was kinda the point. :\ All I can say is I didn't know better at the time... If I have no idea whether I will like a book that I am considering, I usually read the one- and two-star reviews on amazon.com. I know what sort of thing turns me off a book, and if the bad reviews mention them (for example, extremely bad science or many plot holes), then of course I avoid the book. Sometimes, though, they just complain about things like writing style, which for me is generally a distant 4th behind world-building, characterization, and plot, in terms of importance. I just checked the reviews on the book you mentioned, and the bad reviews talk about many of the same problems that you mentioned. ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
From: Warren Ockrassa [war...@nightwares.com] Kevin J. Anderson See, I spotted your problem right away, Warren. :-p Jim ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
In despair for the state of SF
A week or so back I finished _Hidden Empire_, the first book in Kevin J. Anderson's Saga of Seven Suns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_Seven_Suns I discovered this one late -- the series is out now in pulp, and I was unaware of it prior to that. I have some things I just need to vent. [spoilers -- ha, as if] What an unbelievable turd. While it's not unusual for a novelist to foreshadow, Anderson basically forecudgeled. His aliens are disinteresting in the extreme; the only marginally noteworthy society was the Green Priests and their symbiosis with their worldforest, and they were human. The obtuseness of his characters and societies is unforgivable. When you compress the core of a gas giant and turn it into a star, notice what appear to be diamondlike nodules shooting out from the new sun, and then see diamondlike ships attacking cloud-harvesters on other gas giants, you have to be a cretin of genuinely universal proportions to not understand what happened. Yet that's exactly what occurs: No one knows why the hydrogues are attacking cloud harvesters! The alien allies of Earth are anthropomorphic and capable of interbreeding with humans -- oh come on -- and have a history recitation that's millennia deep. Their leader even knows about the hydrogues, though it's a buried secret, yet he still manages somehow to be stunned and ignorant of their attacks, sources, reasoning, etc. Anderson has a husband/wife team of xenoarchaeologists who've uncovered both the wormhole tech used to create suns of gas giants, and teleportation tech used by a long-dead race called the Klikiss. Yup, just the two of them. Not a team, no student support, just a couple of kooks digging up fossil civilizations. And they reactivate a teleport panel using, essentially, camp-light batteries. Those must be some damn impressive batteries. One can only assume they're radically unlike the Li-ion cells in iPhones. And as for the cloud harvesters -- well, early in the narrative we have a captain of one of these things STEPPING OUTSIDE ONTO AN OBSERVATION DECK without breathing apparatus as his skymine sucks up free hydrogen. They even keep doves. Outside. In the atmosphere of the gas giant. While harvesting hydrogen. Almost every page contains a slap to the face of science and SF; it's not even fantasy. It's just a childish notion of magical settings placed for the convenience of plot and story, without any effort made to actually consider what's feasible and what is not. But what tweaked me most was the interview section at the end of the book, where Anderson says he wanted to write a saga that included everything he claims to love about SF. He mentions _Dune_ particularly -- no surprise since he worked with Brian Herbert on continuing Frank Herbert's exploration of that storyline. The only thing I can conclude is that Anderson never understood what Herbert accomplished with _Dune_, and more generally, he doesn't understand SF at all -- least of all what makes a good SF story. Any decent editor in the genre would have suggested two things to him: Rethink. Redact. If this is the state SF is sliding into, particularly in the wake of the _Trek_ and _Transformers_ noise-machines, what the hell do we have left? -- Warren Ockrassa | @waxis Blog | http://indigestible.nightwares.com/ Books | http://books.nightwares.com/ Web | http://www.nightwares.com/ ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
- Original Message - From: Warren Ockrassa war...@nightwares.com To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 3:19 AM Subject: In despair for the state of SF A week or so back I finished _Hidden Empire_, the first book in Kevin J. Anderson's Saga of Seven Suns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_Seven_Suns I discovered this one late -- the series is out now in pulp, and I was unaware of it prior to that. I have some things I just need to vent. [spoilers -- ha, as if] What an unbelievable turd. While it's not unusual for a novelist to foreshadow, Anderson basically forecudgeled. His aliens are disinteresting in the extreme; the only marginally noteworthy society was the Green Priests and their symbiosis with their worldforest, and they were human. The obtuseness of his characters and societies is unforgivable. When you compress the core of a gas giant and turn it into a star, notice what appear to be diamondlike nodules shooting out from the new sun, and then see diamondlike ships attacking cloud-harvesters on other gas giants, you have to be a cretin of genuinely universal proportions to not understand what happened. Yet that's exactly what occurs: No one knows why the hydrogues are attacking cloud harvesters! The alien allies of Earth are anthropomorphic and capable of interbreeding with humans -- oh come on -- and have a history recitation that's millennia deep. Their leader even knows about the hydrogues, though it's a buried secret, yet he still manages somehow to be stunned and ignorant of their attacks, sources, reasoning, etc. Anderson has a husband/wife team of xenoarchaeologists who've uncovered both the wormhole tech used to create suns of gas giants, and teleportation tech used by a long-dead race called the Klikiss. Yup, just the two of them. Not a team, no student support, just a couple of kooks digging up fossil civilizations. And they reactivate a teleport panel using, essentially, camp-light batteries. Those must be some damn impressive batteries. One can only assume they're radically unlike the Li-ion cells in iPhones. And as for the cloud harvesters -- well, early in the narrative we have a captain of one of these things STEPPING OUTSIDE ONTO AN OBSERVATION DECK without breathing apparatus as his skymine sucks up free hydrogen. They even keep doves. Outside. In the atmosphere of the gas giant. While harvesting hydrogen. Almost every page contains a slap to the face of science and SF; it's not even fantasy. It's just a childish notion of magical settings placed for the convenience of plot and story, without any effort made to actually consider what's feasible and what is not. But what tweaked me most was the interview section at the end of the book, where Anderson says he wanted to write a saga that included everything he claims to love about SF. He mentions _Dune_ particularly -- no surprise since he worked with Brian Herbert on continuing Frank Herbert's exploration of that storyline. The only thing I can conclude is that Anderson never understood what Herbert accomplished with _Dune_, and more generally, he doesn't understand SF at all -- least of all what makes a good SF story. Any decent editor in the genre would have suggested two things to him: Rethink. Redact. If this is the state SF is sliding into, particularly in the wake of the _Trek_ and _Transformers_ noise-machines, what the hell do we have left? Uh..why aren't you reading something good? xponent Matter Maru rob ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
Re: In despair for the state of SF
xponent Matter Maru rob Or Anathem, eh? Doug ___ http://mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
