John wrote-
I will concede that I have been somewhat disappointed by the fact
that very few people have spoken up to affirm that the behavior of
several atheists on this List has been out-of-line in terms of
respecting the people of faith who are also members of this
community. :( Still, this was not entirely unsurprising, as the
Community has always preferred to rely upon self-correction of
behavior detrimental to the List, and has always been slow to build
the critical mass of opinion towards censuring or even most
drasticly, taking action, against another List Member. I am sure
that it also doesn't help that we no longer have Jo Anne Bird around
to ding listmembers who step out of line. Still, I think that part
of the great Brin-L experiment is to become self-regulating in the
interests of creating our own little on-line civilization, without
resorting to the use of moderators. I think that raising my concerns
that the uncivil actions of certain List-Members were having a
detrimental effect upon the Community was an entirely appropriate
course of action.
I think you will find that there are no clear rights and wrongs here, no
heros and no villians, just a hot topic that is a tinderbox and people who
recognize the grey areas as much as the extremes of the discussion. Largely we try
and respect what members are passionate about, there is also a certain amount
of background noise and same old, same old that I think we tolerate from
each other. There is always a chance that someone will stomp on any given post-
and if it is something you are passionate about you may risk getting your
feelings trampled. Religion/or not is one of those topics the players and
responses tend to stay passionate and true to form. Religion or not is
largely a personal decision in our society and the whole basis of faith is
intangible- it is not a matter of building consensus. Sometimes threads mutate and
live on for weeks, sometimes threads/topics die quickly... no matter how much
anyone wants to make the list hospitable to religion/safe from religion it
isn't the perogative of any individual to dictate what it is/isn't.
Perhaps I have been idealistic in thinking of tolerance as the opposite of
intolerance, perhaps the word tolerance is not comprehensive enough when it
comes to interaction (tolerance may be more passive action of non posters?- not
firmly sure on this yet). (Looking back Jon did a better job than I pointing
out the need for both respect and tolerance.) What I see lacking is respect
for each other- one need not agree with a position, but at least respect the
other person's ability to have an opinion different from you. There are really
no candidates for great shining white knight (to be above reproach) in recent
heated discussions. Frankly, people seem to be coming across like those not
seeing their opinion are mentally deficient for not being able to see matters
of faith/no faith. Serious discussion is lots of work this is not a race
for speed points or dig quality points. Sometimes I think people don't
respond since the topic has not exceeded some kind of reasonable response
threshold for posters. Joanne is still around as far as I know, but sometimes I have
to figure you would rather not have/need one of the list goddesses, crones,
aunts saying something like don't make me pull this car over or stop
fighting about whose half of the seat you are sitting on (do we really have no
males that have threatened to ding- or the male equivalent of smote).
Some topics will not come to consensus. There is a fundamental principle of
adult learning that might be helpful in understanding why the group may be
slow to change.. learning is based on a perceived need to change something.
Quite simply, some people just don't see a need to change and others saying
things harsher, more condescendingly, will generally not assist people in
identifying a need (or cognitive dissonance) to promote change.
Granted list business is partly my responsibility as much as it is any other
list members, but I try and keep a few fire breaks around to help keep things
in perspective.
Dee
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