Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
On 10/15/07, Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So I take it you don't think this was genocide? I didn't say that it wasn't genocide, I was questioning what good could possibly come from making this declaration 90 years after the fact - It's true, you were doing this. However your language also seemed very dismissive of an event that everyone except Turkey regards as genocide: I don't understand what good could possibly come from passing a resolution labeling this WW1 issue as genocide. The Holocaust is a WW2 issue but most people would regard that as genocide and, moreover, think that Germany is a better place for having recognised this rather than denied it. Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
On 16/10/2007, at 5:01 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Even if it WAS genocide, the question still remains: what good comes from making that declaration 90 years after the fact? How does that improve the world today? Facile answer: Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It. Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
From: Ray Ludenia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com To: Killer Bs Discussion brin-l@mccmedia.com Subject: Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress. Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:43:33 +1000 On 16/10/2007, at 5:01 AM, Gary Nunn wrote: Even if it WAS genocide, the question still remains: what good comes from making that declaration 90 years after the fact? How does that improve the world today? Facile answer: Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It. Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l You mean it didn't get repeated only two generations later? People who remember history may also be given some thoroughly nasty ideas from it. Pat, muttering NOBODY expects Homeland Security. http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ You never know who is swimming naked until the tide goes out. Warren Buffett ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
On 10/14/07, Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm REALLY struggling with this one. I don't understand what good could possibly come from passing a resolution labeling this WW1 issue as genocide. So I take it you don't think this was genocide? Martin ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
David Hobby wrote: ISTANBUL, Turkey - Turkey's top general warned that ties with the U.S., already strained by attacks from rebels hiding in Iraq, will be irreversibly damaged if Congress passes a resolution that labels the World War I-era killings of Armenians a genocide. Yes, I'd say that too. But then look at the reaction from Turkey! Most scholars call it genocide; maybe it's time the Turks admitted it. Maybe the problem is that Turkey does not want to think at itself as the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire was Evil, but Turkey was a new good thing that came from the ashes of the Empire, as one of its split parts. If this genocide could be labeled as the Genocide of Armenians by the Ottoman Empire instead of the Genocide of Armenians by the Turks, maybe it would be easier to accept it. BTW, I don't think italians would object to the Genocide of Carthage by the Roman Republic, or the USA to the Genocide of Native Americans by the English-Controlled 13 Colonies. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
On 15/10/2007, at 9:28 AM, David Hobby wrote: Gary Nunn wrote: I'm REALLY struggling with this one. I don't understand what good could possibly come from passing a resolution labeling this WW1 issue as genocide. I tend to agree with you on a practical basis, and I have actually been thinking about this particular incident for a while now. However, then my idealistic streak kicks in and I ask why is it then a crime to be a holocaust denier? That's ancient history to most people now. What about the Japanese denials of war atrocities? Yes, I'd say that too. But then look at the reaction from Turkey! Most scholars call it genocide; maybe it's time the Turks admitted it. I do like Alberto's suggestion about this! Of course, to be fair, there should be matching resolutions for EVERY country. They could go through the alphabet, and do one a week.. Quite right as I started saying above. Where does one draw the line? Regards, Ray. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
Ray Ludenia wrote: Of course, to be fair, there should be matching resolutions for EVERY country. They could go through the alphabet, and do one a week.. Quite right as I started saying above. Where does one draw the line? I was reading one Wikipedia article about Genocides, and noticed that here in Brazil some people have recently been convicted of perpretrating genocides against natives - probably the magnitude of the killings is less than 100 people. OTOH, there a few tribes with 20 or 30 people, would killing all of them be a genocide? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007, Robert Seeberger wrote: We usually celebrate our turkey genocide in late November. But we don't invite Congress. Was it the President or Congress who set the date for that turkey genocide? Julia too lazy to go to Wikipedia this morning ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
Gary Nunn wrote: It seems to me that Congress should have more important issues to deal with than trying to appease lobbyist with a hidden agenda over something that happened 90 years ago. I have the sinking feeling that the Democrats in control of Congress WANT to anger Turkey. If they can't get Bush to withdraw troops from Iraq they'll make it damn hard (if not impossible) to keep them there by stopping the flow of troops and supplies through Turkey. I really, REALLY hope I'm wrong as that would be a very bad thing. - jmh CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information or otherwise protected by law. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
So I take it you don't think this was genocide? Martin I didn't say that it wasn't genocide, I was questioning what good could possibly come from making this declaration 90 years after the fact - especially if it's going to piss off an allied nation that is clearly a different regime. As someone else mentioned, at what point do you draw the line? Another country could declare the dropping of the atomic bombs during World War II as genocide or declare that Truman is a war criminal for ordering the bombs. Someone else could declare the US treatment of Native Americans as attempted genocide, or declare that the US allowed and encouraged slavery. Even if it WAS genocide, the question still remains: what good comes from making that declaration 90 years after the fact? How does that improve the world today? Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Turkey, Genocide Congress.
Gary Nunn wrote: I'm REALLY struggling with this one. I don't understand what good could possibly come from passing a resolution labeling this WW1 issue as genocide. ... ISTANBUL, Turkey - Turkey's top general warned that ties with the U.S., already strained by attacks from rebels hiding in Iraq, will be irreversibly damaged if Congress passes a resolution that labels the World War I-era killings of Armenians a genocide. Gary-- Yes, I'd say that too. But then look at the reaction from Turkey! Most scholars call it genocide; maybe it's time the Turks admitted it. Of course, to be fair, there should be matching resolutions for EVERY country. They could go through the alphabet, and do one a week... ---David ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
