Re: Professionals, Educated being Decimated in Iraq
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 11:45 PM Subject: Re: Professionals, Educated being Decimated in Iraq Dan wrote: I guess it was the post-script about the evils of the Bush administration that triggered my ironic sense. Since I've never called the Bush administration evil, I can just differ with them on the practicality of regime change; not the morality of it. The Fool's posting of this article makes them sound, at worst, like naive do-goodders. ;-) Its ironic that he undercuts his own point, Bush and company are evil; even as he buttressed the argument that Iraq is a lot more difficult than the optimistic hard liners could ever believe. I thing naive do-gooders is the best face you could put on it, and frankly having people that are at best naive do-gooders at the helm at such a critical juncture continues to scare the living bejesus out of me. I think that reflects the polarization of the US. The record on post-Iraq is mixed; it is not as bad as I feared it might be. Some of the positive consequences that the US government expected did take place; others didn't. Some of the negative consequences feared by those opposed to the war have taken place, others have not. For example, Ritu stated as a truism that the US would just be increasing the number of terrorists by going into Iraq. Yet, after the actions, two countries opened up concerning the WMD potential. While both were in the works beforehand, I don't believe that much in coincidence. I don't care for it as an explanation for why the economy performs better, to several SD, under Democratic presidents than under Republicans, so I won't use it here. It does not strain credibility to think that dictators look at Iraq and say we can't be sure the US won't use force against us, so the cost-benefit of having WMD has now tilted towards cost. Bin Laden said people prefer a strong horse. I think perception of the chances of beating an adversary has as much or more to do with terrorism than oppression. For example, Russia is less oppressive than the USSR, yet it faces much more terrorism. Looking at Iraq itself, it appears that there are a lot of political maneuverings; not all of which are set against the US's goals. I'm not sure how it will turn out, but the signals there are mixed. Bush continues to make decisions based not on the best information, but on what he wishes the best information was. I think that is often a fair criticism. One of the problems with rock solid certitude is that it can stand, even in the face of facts. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Professionals, Educated being Decimated in Iraq
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: xBrin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 2:40 PM Subject: Professionals, Educated being Decimated in Iraq http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/07/international/middleeast/07ASSA.html?e i=5062en=f2848e5dfb0a2326ex=1076734800adxnnl=1partner=GOOGLEadxnnlx=1 076156328-xcqmhKZ8n045KtdVUSBIYA In an instant, he became one of hundreds of intellectuals and midlevel administrators who Iraqi officials say have been assassinated since May in a widening campaign against Iraq's professional class. They are going after our brains, said Lt. Col. Jabbar Abu Natiha, head of the organized crime unit of the Baghdad police. It is a big operation. Maybe even a movement. So, you've demonstrated that some rather despicable people are trying to stop the transformation of Iraq into a better place to live. Are you now arguing for the administrations position? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Professionals, Educated being Decimated in Iraq
Dan wrote: So, you've demonstrated that some rather despicable people are trying to stop the transformation of Iraq into a better place to live. Are you now arguing for the administrations position? I think he's pointing out, as you did prior to the invasion, that Iraq isn't going to be an easy gig. -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Professionals, Educated being Decimated in Iraq
Dan wrote: I guess it was the post-script about the evils of the Bush administration that triggered my ironic sense. Since I've never called the Bush administration evil, I can just differ with them on the practicality of regime change; not the morality of it. The Fool's posting of this article makes them sound, at worst, like naive do-goodders. ;-) Its ironic that he undercuts his own point, Bush and company are evil; even as he buttressed the argument that Iraq is a lot more difficult than the optimistic hard liners could ever believe. I thing naive do-gooders is the best face you could put on it, and frankly having people that are at best naive do-gooders at the helm at such a critical juncture continues to scare the living bejesus out of me. Bush continues to make decisions based not on the best information, but on what he wishes the best information was. This is apparent in the miscalculations in Iraq, and perhaps even more ominously, in his voodoo economics. See http://tinyurl.com/2vn5n for a recent discussion by Brad DeLong on the budget deficits. What I find troubling is that there will, in all probability, not be a good plus-delta discussion on Iraq. Here, you mean? Why not. I was thinking about doing a yes-but to Ritu's post (hi Ritu) on Culture but as someone else point out, it's too monocultural a place for that discussion to take place. The question she put to Jack Straw? Perhaps we can get her to post a note about it here? -- Doug GCU If She's Feeling Better, Maybe... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
