Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[tavi merrill via Callers]

Regarding swing position: With good frame, differences between the roles in
giving weight are slight. But not all dancers are accustomed to good frame.

I find a mirrored ballroom hold (both dancers have right hand on the
other's shoulder blade, left hand on the other's shoulder) offers several
advantages:
   - In general, it's a good hold for dancers to know as it saves space
in crowded halls.
   - It facilitates spinning out from a swing, useful when dancers
encounter "string of swings" choreography
   - It allows both dancers to experience both sides of good frame
The one challenge is that dancers need to remember which side they are
ending the swing on, as it removes "pointer hands" from the equation.

This a bit of a tangent, but related to the chain: If we just called gents
chains (by either hand! the courtesy turn for a left-hand chain isn't
REALLY that complicated, folks) more often, role differences WRT chain
would be a moot issue, and both roles would be better equipped to
understand/offer/ask/decline flourishes. All for the effort of teaching one
move well, one move that's out there in good choreography waiting to be
used.

Susan, I'm assuming this workshop is at a gender-free series, but geared to
encourage attendance by dancers who aren't yet accustomed to gender-free
dance? Having danced both roles widely and called a bit of gender-free, I'd
be happy to chat by phone or IM. Feel free to ping me on facebook - Tavi
Merrill



On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> > Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> > roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or
> > advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect,
> > I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving
> > dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For
> > dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think
> > would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing
> > positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
>
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers]

Everything Maia said!

Also, if you find you are teaching to people who are doing well with both
roles, and want to learn when they can switch within a dance other than in
a swing, the easiest places are in Long lines if one is across from your
partner, (do like a hole-in-the wall gypsy), in Long lines, if one is next
to your partner (add a roll away) and then adding or subtracting a 1/2 turn
in an allemande or do si do w/ partner.

I would also remind dancers that all flourishes are offers and should feel
like offers, and dancers should talk about flourishes with their partner
and whether or not they would like any.

Have fun!

A


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 5:06 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I find that a lot of people who have danced mostly the gent's role, when
> they start dancing the lady's role, think that when they swing, they're
> supposed to go backwards or sorta sideways... I mean, hell, a lot of people
> think that's how a lady swings when they first start dancing that role!
> But, I emphasize that you're both walking (or buzz-stepping) *forward*,
> roughly aiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
> footwork for a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
> emphasize this might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
> (e.g. right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
> the heads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
> swing (perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
> then with person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.
>
> Ending the swing on the opposite side also takes some getting used to.
> Instead of emphasizing which role ends where ("gent ends on the left... oh
> god, am I the gent??"), I find it useful to talk about ending the swing
> with the "pointy end" pointing in the direction you want to be facing, and
> releasing from there--works for both roles, so no scrambling to remember
> what role you're dancing and what side you're supposed to end up on.
>
> You might lean towards selecting dances where tricky gendered stuff (e.g.
> the courtesy turn, which many people will be learning for the first time in
> their new role) happens with a neighbor. If it happens that you and your
> partner are both confused about how to do a courtesy turn in your new role
> and the only courtesy turns happen with your partner, you're not going to
> get any help.
>
> Lastly (and this is something that I urge all you folks on the
> listserv to do, even if you're not calling specifically gender-neutral
> dances): use gender-neutral language to describe the roles! I find this
> every effective for breaking down role gender expectations, even if the
> role names themselves are gendered. So rather than "gents, take that
> neighbor lady and scoop her around in a courtesy turn", say, "scoop *them* 
> around
> in a courtesy turn".
>
> Good luck! Let us know how it goes, and what did or didn't work well!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Chris Page via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically
>> men's
>> role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
>> of circle left 3/4, pass through).
>>
>>
>> The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
>> dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.
>>
>>
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April/009516.html
>>
>> Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
>> choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
>> the right.
>>
>> -Chris Page
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
>>  wrote:
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
>> Saturday
>> > on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not
>> having
>> > done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
>> > should include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much
>> to
>> > discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
>> > responding to different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what
>> > points of emphasis do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to
>> mind
>> > are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where
>> the
>> > actions of the two roles are different.
>> >
>> > thank you!
>> > Susan Pleck
>> > Oakland, CA
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Callers mailing list
>> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>> >
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> 

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Aahz Maruch via Callers]

On Tue, Jul 05, 2016, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:
>
> I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching
> roles. Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts
> or advice about what this should include. For the gender-free
> aspect, I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more
> just giving dancers a chance to practice responding to different
> terms. For dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis
> do you think would be most useful? Two that come to mind are swing
> positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> actions of the two roles are different.

Depending on what kind of group you have, it might be easier to teach
them "from scratch".  Obviously, you could go a lot faster with
experienced dancers, but starting fresh -- and telling them they're
starting over -- might put them into a more accepting mindset and give
you the opportunity to correct any flaws in their previous dancing.

I know that I for a long time was using a poor left-hand shoulder hold
for raven swinging (until Kelsey corrected me).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

I find that a lot of people who have danced mostly the gent's role, when
they start dancing the lady's role, think that when they swing, they're
supposed to go backwards or sorta sideways... I mean, hell, a lot of people
think that's how a lady swings when they first start dancing that role!
But, I emphasize that you're both walking (or buzz-stepping) *forward*,
roughly aiming at a point over your partner's shoulder. In fact, *the
footwork for a swing for both roles is exactly the same!!!* A good way to
emphasize this might be to have participants do a gender-neutral swing
(e.g. right hand on shoulder blade, left hand clasped with partner above
the heads) and then change the hand position into your classic ballroom
swing (perhaps even trying out ballroom position with person A leading,
then with person B leading) and noting how the footwork stays the same.

Ending the swing on the opposite side also takes some getting used to.
Instead of emphasizing which role ends where ("gent ends on the left... oh
god, am I the gent??"), I find it useful to talk about ending the swing
with the "pointy end" pointing in the direction you want to be facing, and
releasing from there--works for both roles, so no scrambling to remember
what role you're dancing and what side you're supposed to end up on.

You might lean towards selecting dances where tricky gendered stuff (e.g.
the courtesy turn, which many people will be learning for the first time in
their new role) happens with a neighbor. If it happens that you and your
partner are both confused about how to do a courtesy turn in your new role
and the only courtesy turns happen with your partner, you're not going to
get any help.

Lastly (and this is something that I urge all you folks on the listserv
to do, even if you're not calling specifically gender-neutral dances): use
gender-neutral language to describe the roles! I find this every effective
for breaking down role gender expectations, even if the role names
themselves are gendered. So rather than "gents, take that neighbor lady and
scoop her around in a courtesy turn", say, "scoop *them* around in a
courtesy turn".

Good luck! Let us know how it goes, and what did or didn't work well!

Cheers,
Maia

On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Chris Page via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically
> men's
> role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
> of circle left 3/4, pass through).
>
>
> The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
> dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.
>
>
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April/009516.html
>
> Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
> choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
> the right.
>
> -Chris Page
> San Diego, CA
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
>  wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this
> Saturday
> > on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not
> having
> > done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
> > should include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to
> > discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
> > responding to different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what
> > points of emphasis do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to
> mind
> > are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where
> the
> > actions of the two roles are different.
> >
> > thank you!
> > Susan Pleck
> > Oakland, CA
> >
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Chris Page via Callers]

One subtle thing that's different is progression instincts -- typically men's
role progress on the left, women's on the right. (Like with a final B2
of circle left 3/4, pass through).


The few times I've had everyone do a gender swap, I've gone with the
dance "Bicoastal Contra" by Pete Campbell.

http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2008-April/009516.html

Two swings, one courtesy turn, a men's allemande, fairly simple
choreography -- and neither swing need end with the correct person on
the right.

-Chris Page
San Diego, CA


On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers
 wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this Saturday
> on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not having
> done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this
> should include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to
> discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice
> responding to different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what
> points of emphasis do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to mind
> are swing positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the
> actions of the two roles are different.
>
> thank you!
> Susan Pleck
> Oakland, CA
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Winston, Alan P. via Callers]

On 7/5/2016 11:32 AM, Susan Pleck via Callers wrote:

Hi folks,

I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this 
Saturday on gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching 
roles.  Not having done this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or 
advice about what this should include.  For the gender-free aspect, 
I'm not sure there's much to discuss, really; ir'd be more just giving 
dancers a chance to practice responding to different terms.  For 
dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis do you think 
would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing 
positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the 
actions of the two roles are different.


I think swing practice from the "other" position, with coaching, is a 
good idea.


Also, like it or not, most flourishes are led by the gent/band/lark 
role, and that's pretty different when you switch.  So a few words on 
leading (including that you don't have to have flourishes at all,  
better never than late bt when "late" is, that leads are invitations and 
can be declined without prejudice, that twirls are generally 
accomplished by the follow rather than by the lead) and on following 
(being aware that people are gonna try to lead you in stuff,  how to 
decline leads you don't want to follow) might be helpful.


-- Alan

[Callers] tips for teaching dancing the "other" role?

[Susan Pleck via Callers]

Hi folks,
I'm to lead a workshop/extended intro lesson at a local dance this Saturday on 
gender-free dancing/dancing the "other" role/switching roles.  Not having done 
this before, I'd appreciate any thoughts or advice about what this should 
include.  For the gender-free aspect, I'm not sure there's much to discuss, 
really; ir'd be more just giving dancers a chance to practice responding to 
different terms.  For dancing the other role, though, what points of emphasis 
do you think would be most useful?  Two that come to mind are swing 
positioning/giving weight, and figures such as a chain where the actions of the 
two roles are different.
thank you!Susan PleckOakland, CA

Re: [Callers] Grand Square in a contra?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Thanks John, that does seem like a fun bit to incorporate.

I ran the Fox Hollow Foibles dance with the Grand Square happening on the
diagonal at IndepenDance in Wisconsin. Folks seemed to have fun with it,
but it was certainly challenging (my sense is that community doesn't do
many squares; Grand or otherwise).

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 5:20 PM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Of course contra dancers like swinging, so you could try incorporating
> this version into a contra dance:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfqC8uVfCUo
>
>
>
> In “Cowboy Dances” (1939) there was also a version with half a two-hand
> turn (but they called it a swing!) every time you met someone.
>
>
>
> Happy dancing,
>
> John
>
>
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>


-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 

[Callers] Come to Pinewoods

[sue rosen via Callers]

American Dance and Music Week at Pinewoods still has space to you to join us.  
It's a wonderful program in the most beautiful setting.  Larry Edelman, caller, 
musician and teacher extraordinaire, will be teaching his very popular Square 
Dance Callers class.  If you are a caller who has ever considered adding 
squares to your repertoire, you don't want to miss the opportunity to learn 
from Larry.  Even callers with years of experience will benefit from Larry's 
wisdom.  

The rest of the program is packed with great calling and teaching.  Check it 
all out at
http://www.cdss.org/programs/dance-music-song-camps/camp-weeks/american

Hope to see you there!
Sue