Re: [Callers] Dance logs and record-keeping

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

On 3/6/2018 7:28 PM, Mac Mckeever via Callers wrote:
This seems to me to be a lot of effort with very little benefit.  There 
are thousands of dances and each caller has their own approach to 
programming.  It is rare for a dance to be called two nights in a row.  
When I do see that happening I often ask other dancers around me if they 
remember it - and no one ever has.


How would the next caller get access to this info? The logistics would 
seem difficult and unnecessary.


The way our local English dances do this is that the series programmer 
sends the current log to the next caller on deck, who can then consider 
the log or not, as they choose.  It's not a big deal.  I run the 
Sebastopol dance, and I either write down the programs myself if I'm at 
the dance or contact the caller afterward to get their list.  Simple 
Excel spreadsheet to keep track.  Easy.


If I'm coming to call for a community I've never worked with before, 
seeing a list of the dances they've done gives me a good idea of the 
general level of the group.  It's a useful tool.


Kalia in Sebastopol CA
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Re: [Callers] Dance logs and record-keeping

[Mac Mckeever via Callers]

This seems to me to be a lot of effort with very little benefit.  There are 
thousands of dances and each caller has their own approach to programming.  It 
is rare for a dance to be called two nights in a row.  When I do see that 
happening I often ask other dancers around me if they remember it - and no one 
ever has.
How would the next caller get access to this info? The logistics would seem 
difficult and unnecessary.
I do not even keep track of what dances I have called.  I start off fresh when 
planning a program.  If I called somewhere and they ask me back next year - no 
one will notice if a couple dances are the same. It probably means they were 
really good ones.

I agree that a different band, etc can make the same dance feel very different 
and that a lot of dances are very similar.  It bothers me more when a caller 
programs an evening with several dances that all feel the same.
Mac McKeeverSt Louis
 

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018, 8:22:25 PM CST, Winston, Alan P. via Callers 
 wrote:  
 
  
Oddly enough, I was just in Seattle at the end of February and had a 
conversation about this with Lindsey Dono, who told me to my surprise that 
dancers at Lake City, at least, will complain about getting the same dance two 
weeks in a row, and said that there *was* a log kept of dances called locally.
 
So, Amy, I suggest checking with Lindsey and see if the effort is already under 
way.
 
In the SF Bay Area, I think our dance populations kinda slop around, so that 
while a core of people may go to the central Bay Area dances (SF, Berkeley, 
Palo Alto), East Bay people may also go to North Bay dances (San Rafael, 
Petaluma) and North Bay people may go to Berkeley or SF but not usually Palo 
Alto, while Monterey Bay people (Monterey, Santa Cruz) go to those dances and 
some come up to Palo Alto, and some South Bay people (Palo Alto, San Jose, etc) 
go to Santa Cruz or Monterey.  The result is that every dancer does the dances 
that are called at the dances they happen to go to, it would be a huge 
coordinating effort to keep all the dances at different dance series with 
somewhat-overlapping attendance separate, and nobody but callers seems to care 
anyway.  
 
 
For me personally, different band, different tune set pretty much equals 
different dance even with the same figures - but also dances that are 3/4 the 
same figures as other dances feel like the same dances anyway.
 
-- Alan
 
 On 3/6/2018 6:07 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers wrote:
  
 
Huh! I never thought of that for the dance we run. I keep a file of each gig 
and the dances I called at each. I also write on each dance card the date and 
location of each time I've called it, so I don't repeat myself too often. 
  There's a record of contra dances called at Northwest Folklife Festival. I 
don't know how far back it goes.  
  I'll talk to my fellow organizers about starting this at Emerald City Contra 
Dance. 
  -Amy  
  On Tue, Mar 6, 2018, 5:42 PM Kalia Kliban via Callers 
 wrote:
  
Dance logs, a cumulative record for a series of which dances have been
 called on any given evening, are very common in the English dance
 community but vanishingly rare in the contra community.  Why is that?
 They're really helpful for incoming callers, and it's probably nice for
 the dancers not to keep getting the same dances week after week.
 
 I've only ever known of one contra series that kept a log, and it's
 probably because I suggested it when they started out (the Queer Contra
 series in Oakland, CA).  Are there any contra organizers out there who
 maintain a dance log?  Those of you who do, how do you get the dance
 lists from the callers?  The Oakland series had a little book on the
 stage and the callers would write their programs down as they went or at
 the end of the night.
 
 Part of it comes down to record-keeping on the part of the callers.  I
 keep a personal log of all the dances I've called so I can avoid
 repeating myself when I return to a given venue.  That makes it easy for
 me to produce a set list after the fact if an organizer wants to fill in
 a gap in the log.  Fellow contra callers, do you all keep records of
 what you call, and if you don't, how do you avoid repeating yourself or
 remember what worked well (or not) the last time you called at a
 particular place?
 
 If you work with something like Caller's Companion, do you update the
 program list with what you actually danced as opposed to what you
 programmed?
 
 Just curious about other people's process on this.
 
 Kalia in Sebastopol, CA
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Re: [Callers] Dance logs and record-keeping

[Winston, Alan P. via Callers]

Oddly enough, I was just in Seattle at the end of February and had a 
conversation about this with Lindsey Dono, who told me to my surprise 
that dancers at Lake City, at least, will complain about getting the 
same dance two weeks in a row, and said that there *was* a log kept of 
dances called locally.


So, Amy, I suggest checking with Lindsey and see if the effort is 
already under way.


In the SF Bay Area, I think our dance populations kinda slop around, so 
that while a core of people may go to the central Bay Area dances (SF, 
Berkeley, Palo Alto), East Bay people may also go to North Bay dances 
(San Rafael, Petaluma) and North Bay people may go to Berkeley or SF but 
not usually Palo Alto, while Monterey Bay people (Monterey, Santa Cruz) 
go to those dances and some come up to Palo Alto, and some South Bay 
people (Palo Alto, San Jose, etc) go to Santa Cruz or Monterey.  The 
result is that every dancer does the dances that are called at the 
dances they happen to go to, it would be a huge coordinating effort to 
keep all the dances at different dance series with somewhat-overlapping 
attendance separate, and nobody but callers seems to care anyway.


For me personally, different band, different tune set pretty much equals 
different dance even with the same figures - but also dances that are 
3/4 the same figures as other dances feel like the same dances anyway.


-- Alan

On 3/6/2018 6:07 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers wrote:
Huh! I never thought of that for the dance we run. I keep a file of 
each gig and the dances I called at each. I also write on each dance 
card the date and location of each time I've called it, so I don't 
repeat myself too often.


There's a record of contra dances called at Northwest Folklife 
Festival. I don't know how far back it goes.


I'll talk to my fellow organizers about starting this at Emerald City 
Contra Dance.


-Amy

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018, 5:42 PM Kalia Kliban via Callers 
> wrote:


Dance logs, a cumulative record for a series of which dances have been
called on any given evening, are very common in the English dance
community but vanishingly rare in the contra community.  Why is that?
They're really helpful for incoming callers, and it's probably
nice for
the dancers not to keep getting the same dances week after week.

I've only ever known of one contra series that kept a log, and it's
probably because I suggested it when they started out (the Queer
Contra
series in Oakland, CA).  Are there any contra organizers out there who
maintain a dance log?  Those of you who do, how do you get the dance
lists from the callers?  The Oakland series had a little book on the
stage and the callers would write their programs down as they went
or at
the end of the night.

Part of it comes down to record-keeping on the part of the callers.  I
keep a personal log of all the dances I've called so I can avoid
repeating myself when I return to a given venue.  That makes it
easy for
me to produce a set list after the fact if an organizer wants to
fill in
a gap in the log.  Fellow contra callers, do you all keep records of
what you call, and if you don't, how do you avoid repeating
yourself or
remember what worked well (or not) the last time you called at a
particular place?

If you work with something like Caller's Companion, do you update the
program list with what you actually danced as opposed to what you
programmed?

Just curious about other people's process on this.

Kalia in Sebastopol, CA
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Re: [Callers] Dance logs and record-keeping

[Amy Wimmer via Callers]

Huh! I never thought of that for the dance we run. I keep a file of each
gig and the dances I called at each. I also write on each dance card the
date and location of each time I've called it, so I don't repeat myself too
often.

There's a record of contra dances called at Northwest Folklife Festival. I
don't know how far back it goes.

I'll talk to my fellow organizers about starting this at Emerald City
Contra Dance.

-Amy

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018, 5:42 PM Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Dance logs, a cumulative record for a series of which dances have been
> called on any given evening, are very common in the English dance
> community but vanishingly rare in the contra community.  Why is that?
> They're really helpful for incoming callers, and it's probably nice for
> the dancers not to keep getting the same dances week after week.
>
> I've only ever known of one contra series that kept a log, and it's
> probably because I suggested it when they started out (the Queer Contra
> series in Oakland, CA).  Are there any contra organizers out there who
> maintain a dance log?  Those of you who do, how do you get the dance
> lists from the callers?  The Oakland series had a little book on the
> stage and the callers would write their programs down as they went or at
> the end of the night.
>
> Part of it comes down to record-keeping on the part of the callers.  I
> keep a personal log of all the dances I've called so I can avoid
> repeating myself when I return to a given venue.  That makes it easy for
> me to produce a set list after the fact if an organizer wants to fill in
> a gap in the log.  Fellow contra callers, do you all keep records of
> what you call, and if you don't, how do you avoid repeating yourself or
> remember what worked well (or not) the last time you called at a
> particular place?
>
> If you work with something like Caller's Companion, do you update the
> program list with what you actually danced as opposed to what you
> programmed?
>
> Just curious about other people's process on this.
>
> Kalia in Sebastopol, CA
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> List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
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[Callers] Dance logs and record-keeping

[Kalia Kliban via Callers]

Dance logs, a cumulative record for a series of which dances have been 
called on any given evening, are very common in the English dance 
community but vanishingly rare in the contra community.  Why is that? 
They're really helpful for incoming callers, and it's probably nice for 
the dancers not to keep getting the same dances week after week.


I've only ever known of one contra series that kept a log, and it's 
probably because I suggested it when they started out (the Queer Contra 
series in Oakland, CA).  Are there any contra organizers out there who 
maintain a dance log?  Those of you who do, how do you get the dance 
lists from the callers?  The Oakland series had a little book on the 
stage and the callers would write their programs down as they went or at 
the end of the night.


Part of it comes down to record-keeping on the part of the callers.  I 
keep a personal log of all the dances I've called so I can avoid 
repeating myself when I return to a given venue.  That makes it easy for 
me to produce a set list after the fact if an organizer wants to fill in 
a gap in the log.  Fellow contra callers, do you all keep records of 
what you call, and if you don't, how do you avoid repeating yourself or 
remember what worked well (or not) the last time you called at a 
particular place?


If you work with something like Caller's Companion, do you update the 
program list with what you actually danced as opposed to what you 
programmed?


Just curious about other people's process on this.

Kalia in Sebastopol, CA
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Re: [Callers] Leading, consent in embellishments

[John Sweeney via Callers]

Hi Jeanette,

  For star holds see:

http://lists.sharedweight.net/pipermail/callers-sharedweight.net/2016-October/001950.html

 

  Embellishments are best achieved in a microsecond by a good 
leader initiating the embellishment and a good follower following it.  
Unfortunately, since contra dancing is fundamentally a dance genre which does 
NOT use leaders and followers, the techniques are not normally taught as they 
are not relevant to the basic dance.

 

  Countless swing holds, and entries and exits, do work perfectly 
well in contra as long as both dancers are experienced and know how to ensure 
that both dancers finish facing in the correct direction at the right time.

 

  Here is one of my old posts covering many aspects of this 
question in detail:

 

My beliefs, understandings, opinions - some points:

 

1) Contra is not intrinsically a lead/follow dance style; calling the roles 
"leader" & "follower" is incorrect, misleading and generally a bad idea

 

2) Within contra there are opportunities to do some lead and follow, but either 
role can be the leader

 

3) There is a difference between leads, signals and connections, though 
connections are often used to lead beginners

 

4) Lead & Follow works better if both dancers have good lead/follow technique, 
and some of the flourishes also benefit from good technique

 

5) Leads can be with fingertips, body angles, eyes, and anything else that works

 

6) The end of a swing is not symmetrical and it is much easier to let the "man" 
control the end of the swing; that's not sexist, it is physics!

 

7) Most dancers would benefit from good teaching on this subject, but sadly 
there is very little teaching provided

 

Details below.  Read on if you are interested...

 

First, I should perhaps explain my background.  I have been dancing for over 
fifty years and teaching dance for over forty-five years.  As well as contra, 
square, ECD, ceilidh, Morris, clog, etc. I also dance many partner dances such 
as West Coast Swing, Lindy/Swing, Argentine Tango, contra waltz and Modern 
Jive/LeRoc/Ceroc: http://www.modernjive.com.

 

Modern Jive is an English, simplified form of Swing which has no fixed footwork 
and very few close-hold moves.  It is led primarily by the man's fingertips and 
has a very wide range of moves.  I specialise in Double Trouble: one man 
leading two ladies: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CE6Iu6Fh6bw

 

This is a cabaret performance so we are doing some choreographed moves, but 
most of it is being led by me and the ladies don't know what I am going to do 
next.  When I go to new venues I dance with lots of ladies to see how well they 
follow, then I dance Double Trouble with two of the good followers and I can 
lead them into a wide range of interesting moves.  Leading two strangers 
simultaneously only works if they are following well, and because I have spent 
a lot of time studying lead and follow and developing my leading skills so that 
I can do this.

 

So, back to contra:

 

1) Contra is not intrinsically a lead/follow dance style; calling the roles 
"leader" & "follower" is incorrect, misleading and generally a bad idea

 

I agree entirely with what many others have said already.  The caller teaches 
the dance.  The dancers dance it to the music.  Everyone knows (at least in 
theory!) what is coming next, so there can be no lead or follow.  The whole 
point of lead and follow is that the leader chooses the next move and has to 
let the follower know what it is through the lead; the follower then has to 
react to that lead in whatever way they choose.

 

 

2) Within contra there are opportunities to do some lead and follow, but either 
role can be the leader

 

When you execute the dance as the caller called it then there is no lead or 
follow.  If you add some flourishes then they MAY involve some lead and follow, 
but which role leads depends on the actual move.

 

A nice flourish at the end of "Up the Hall in Lines of Four; Bend the Line" is 
for a middle person to raise their hand and turn their end person into the 
circle.  This is not part of the dance; the end person may not be expecting it 
and has to react to it; this is lead & follow.  The genders/roles of the 
participants are completely irrelevant.

 

Note: this can also be performed by the twirlee as an independent flourish - as 
long as the dancer whose hand you are holding allows it!  Many dancers are so 
rigid that I can't raise their arm to twirl under it! (If only everyone would 
relax the muscles that they don't need to be using, and let their hands be 
moved!)

 

 

3) There is a difference between leads, signals and connections, though 
connections are often used to lead beginners

 

When you help each other to redirect your momentum that is not really lead & 
follow.  Examples are "Circle Left; Neighbour Dosido" or "Long Lines Go Forward 
& Back with the Ladies Rolling the Men Away