Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

I want to echo the words of Alex D-L and Dave Casserly.

I'm also appalled at the casual use of the n-word on this thread without
anyone whatsoever calling it out. This is really giving me pause. :(

Contra's attendance is dwindling - I hear it from every organizer I talk
to, with a couple exceptions. I also hear about the desire to "get the
young people to dance". Hmmm.

Ron Blechner


On Tue, Mar 27, 2018, 11:39 AM Dave Casserly via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Rich,
>
> I don't think your situation here is exactly what Colin describes-- you're
> not worried about any of the particular words, as many of us are regarding
> the word "gypsy," for instance.  The question here is whether the phrase
> has an offensive *meaning* of "women are things," and if so, is that a
> good reason not to use it.  Personally, I'd probably alter it or do a
> different singing square.  I don't subscribe to the extreme position that
> you should never sing lyrics to a folk song unless you agree with those
> lyrics; that would make singing folk songs very difficult to do at all.
> That said, there are some times where the meanings of lyrics are offensive
> enough, without any redeeming qualities, that I leave a verse out or alter
> a few words in the singing sessions that I lead.  There is nothing
> sacrosanct about a particular set of lyrics to a folk song; people have
> been changing them for whatever reason for generations, and will continue
> to do so.  If future singers don't like my revisions, they can sing a
> different version, just like I sometimes prefer to ignore Victorian-era
> revisions to bawdier songs.
>
> Here, I'd lean toward not using the lyrics for three reasons: 1) they
> imply that women are objects; 2) there's nothing redeeming or valuable
> about them, as they're the only things sung, with no context; and 3)
> similarly, they don't represent the meaning of the song, and when repeated
> on their own, sort of pervert that meaning (at least going by the lyrics
> Yoyo posted).
>
> I also think there are good reasons to err on the side of inclusive
> language, particularly in our community.  Contra dancing is overwhelmingly
> white, and for a long time, contra dance calling was dominated by men.  The
> loudest voices on this forum are those of older white men.  Contra dancers
> and particularly organizers are disproportionately white baby boomers.
> We're seeing the effects of that now; dance attendance has been dwindling
> as older dancers stop attending and aren't replaced by younger dancers.  If
> we want our dance form to continue to thrive, when there's a question on
> which there's a generational divide (as you, in my view correctly, note
> here), I would err toward using the language less likely to turn off our
> younger generations, which are also our most diverse generations.  This
> isn't an issue where changing the lyrics is going to bother people-- very
> few would know the original lyrics well enough to notice-- and certainly
> nobody would know if you selected a different singing square instead.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> David Casserly
> (cell) 781 258-2761
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Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

[jim saxe via Callers]

An important thing to remember is that sometimes *you just can't
please everyone* no matter what you do.  That applies not only
to issues that some would characterize as being about "political
correctness" (singing call lyrics; the "g-word"; gendered vs.
gender-free names for dance roles), but to many, many other
decisions about dance calling, dance organization, and life in
general.  

Some of our recent discussion have made me recall an old fable of
which I offer here one version (from the March 29, 1753, number
of the British weekly, _The World_, as quoted at

 https://books.google.com/books?id=L3YPQAAJ=PA78

):

 An old man and a little boy were driving an ass to the next
 market to sell.  What a fool is this fellow (says a man upon
 the road) to be trudging it on foot with his son, that his
 ass may go light!  The old man, hearing this, sat his boy
 upon the ass, and went whistling by the side of him.  Why,
 sirrah! (cries a second man to the boy) is it fit for you to
 be riding, while your poor old father is walking on foot?
 The father, upon this rebuke, took down his boy from the ass,
 and mounted himself.  Do you see (says a third) how the lazy
 old knave rides along, upon his beast, while his poor little
 boy is almost crippled with walking?  The old man no sooner
 heard this, than he took up his son behind him.  Pray, honest
 friend (says a fourth) is that ass your own?  Yes, says the
 old man.  One would not have thought so, replied the other,
 by your loading him so unmercifully.  You and your son are
 better able to carry the poor beast than he you.  Any thing
 to please, says the owner; and alighting with his son, they
 tied the legs of the ass together, and by the help of a pole
 endeavoured to carry him upon their shoulders over the bridge
 that led to the town.  This was so entertaining a sight that
 the people ran in crowds to laugh at it; till the ass,
 conceiving a dislike to the over-complaisance of his master,
 burst asunder the cords that tied him, slipt from the pole,
 and tumbled into the river.  The poor old man made the best
 of his way home, ashamed and vexed that, by endeavouring to
 please everybody, he had pleased nobody, and lost his ass
 into the bargain.

Regarding Rich's question about "Billy Boy", Frannie wrote:

> I learned it as a child as "She's a young girl."  That would at least get rid 
> of the people are things issue.

I might go further and change tag line to something like

She is young and she cannot leave her mother

lest someone object to the word "girl."  Drawing an analogy to
the fable above, I think this sort of change is in the realm
of deciding who should walk and who, if anyone, should ride. 
Your own modern sensibilities may suggest a departure from past
practice.  Or if you think there's more than one reasonable
course of action (though perhaps no perfect one), then you might
feel little inconvenience in acceding to the most common (or the
most loudly asserted) preference of others, even it's not your
own first choice.

But now what if somebody objects to the word "young" because
it implies the protagonist in the song is courting an underage
child?  Or what if someone knows the ending of the original
song (where the woman sung of turns out to be far from young)
and complains that it is ageist?  Or what if someone finds the
gendered pronouns "she" and "her" to be unacceptable in any
context?  There comes a point--and obviously not everyone will
agree where that point is--when either you can go looking for
a length of cord and a pole or you can decide that it's time
to say No.

--Jim

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Re: [Callers] Politically Correct

[Richard Hopkins via Callers]

 I am an example of someone who gradually left a dance community partly because 
of what I saw as offensive lyrics in singing calls….. When my wife and I were 
dancing modern western squares in the late 1980s, in Ohio, many callers were 
using contemporary pop and country songs for their singing calls.  Maybe they 
still do.  One of the reasons we left MWSD after a few years was their choice 
of country songs for their singing calls (which were about half the dances 
called in a typical evening).  I particularly remember cringing at use of Hank 
Williams Junior’s song “If the South Woulda Won the War”, which argues that if 
that had happened we wouldn’t have the social problems we have now (or had in 
the late ‘80s).Not to belittle the concerns that others have brought up, 
but there are (or were) a lot more offensive songs available — at least 
offensive to me — than have been mentioned here.  And I am at least half a 
southerner myself…. 

I'd make my Supreme Court down in Texas,
And we wouldn't have no killers gettin'off free.
If they were proven guilty, then they would swing quickly,
Instead of writin' books and smilin' on T.V.
We'd all learn Cajun cookin in Louisiana,
And I'd put that capitol back in Alabama.
We'd put Florida on the right track 'cause, we'd take Miami back,
And throw all them pushers in the slammer.

Read more: Hank Williams Jr. - If The South Woulda Won Lyrics | MetroLyrics 

 

Richard Hopkins

``

Richard Hopkins

850-544-7614
hopkin...@comcast.net


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[Callers] Anyone want a sweet rural Vermont gig this Saturday?

[Amy Cann via Callers]

I'm the designated caller but my favorite partner-in-crime Laurie Indenbaum
just got freed up to play fiddle and I'd rather make harmonies with her
while one of *you* calls.

The East Putney Dance has been going since forever, is on a dirt road
nobody can find, but people seem to show up any way, has a two-holer
outhouse -- *with padded seats! -- *and a loyal regular crowd big enough to
make two sets, and pays dozens -- dozens, I tell you! -- of dollars.

It's an All-Comers Night which means a bunch of extra musicians will be
sitting in on accordion and harmonica and of course more fiddles, but Carol
Compton keeps them well in line from the piano, and rumor has it a busload
of Putney School teenagers may show up with their exuberance and, um,
creativity.

The dancers will dance ANYthing, contras or circles or singing squares, and
they'll even do dances with clapping and arches without sneering.

If all this sounds impossible to resist, email me directly?
We actually do pay traveling callers somewhat reasonably...

Cheers,
Amy
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Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

[frannie via Callers]

I learned it as a child as "She's a young girl."  That would at least get
rid of the people are things issue.

On Sat, Mar 24, 2018, 10:12 PM Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello folks,
>
> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
> Dick Leger titled Billy Boy.  The tag line that is sung during the
> Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
>
> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>
> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with
> the tag line above?  (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
>
> Any Thoughts?
>
> Rich
> Stafford, CT
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