Re: [Callers] Calling techno?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Hi Maia,

Mostly I agree with Bob. I find that dance length isn't much different in
practice. No-walkthroughs should be fine under the same circumstances as
regular contras.

There are many reasons to choose easier dances for techno contras. The
music and lighting tend to push the balance of how dancers are feeling more
towards groovin' to the beat and away from mental gymnastics.

Music:
- Will you have good phrasing? Some techno DJs understand the importance of
16 and 64-count phrases. If you don't have that, you'll have to pay more
attention as the dance is going to keep the dancers on track, and sometimes
the phrasing will "feel off" by 8 beats, in which case you can adjust the
dance to match (if you don't, the dancers will adjust, but they'll find the
dance somewhat unsatisfying). Sometimes the dance will end in a weird place
(oh well).
- Make sure you know where the music starts the first time through - often
it's not the standard 4 potatoes. A good techno DJ will be able to tell you
for each set.

Lighting:
- Will it be dark? This makes it harder to see (both as a caller and a
dancer).
- I would probably not call anything that required a demo if it's dark.
(Some callers like to use demos to teach regular figures, e.g. hey for 4,
but I'd recommend teaching them a different way.)

Yoyo Zhou


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 3:15 PM Bob via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Choose easy dances. The music is usually hard enough, and fun enough. Easy
> can allow for extra flourishes to add even more spice.
>
> Live or mixed recordings? If live then it should be perfectly square AABB.
> If mixed, the only thing you can count on is 8-beat phrases. Also if mixed
> you need to listen in advance to know how long the intro is for the first
> phrase, and keep focus on which phrase you’re in somehow.
>
> The specific questions about demos and walk through, yes, sure, depends on
> the crowd.
>
> \Bob
> Techno DJ/caller
>
> On Mar 28, 2019, at 17:17, Maia McCormick via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Ah, more specific questions!
>
> - have you found on-the-floor demos doable at techno, or should I not even
> try?
> - techno no-walk-through's: do they work?
>
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 5:13 PM Maia McCormick  wrote:
>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> I haven't called all that many techno contras, and I'm slated to do so
>> this weekend. Any tips or things to keep in mind about how techno differs
>> from your standard contra evening? (Particularly curious about anything
>> relating to dance choice and dance length.)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Maia
>>
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Re: [Callers] Fan Favorite PROPER Contras?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Apart from Indigo Silk, my favorites are Dogleaf Reel by Lisa Greenleaf and
Best of Friends by Martha Wild.

Yoyo Zhou


On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 1:51 PM Don Veino via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've been assigned the opening slot at this year's 2019 New England Folk
> Festival (NEFFA) for my session:
>
> "Keepin' It Proper Contras - It's not all about improper contras! Dances
> from times past to the present set in a proper form."
>
> S... what proper dances have you found to be particular favorites with
> dancers and amenable in a large hall "some experience" (non-advanced
> dancer) setting? I'd appreciate your suggestions.
>
> Thanks,
> Don
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Re: [Callers] Attribution

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

This looks like a variation (perhaps accidental?) on Dogleaf Reel by Lisa
Greenleaf, itself a variation on Dog Branch Reel by Bob Dalsemer.

The original Dogleaf Reel starts proper (rather than improper) and B2 has
the 1s half figure 8 through the 2s instead of long lines forward and back.
This works better for the transition from circle left into 1s swing; the 1s
have the usual hands for the circle into swing transition (gents left -
ladies right).

If you'd rather stay in improper formation, I would change the A1 to N do
si do, 1s swing (the A1 from Dog Branch Reel).

Yoyo Zhou


On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 9:07 AM Grant Goodyear via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi, folks.
>
> I threw the following dance in a medley on Saturday night, and I have no
> idea who wrote it or what the name of the dance is.  Anybody recognize it?
> Thanks, Grant.
>
> ?? (learned from Lisa Greenleaf)
>
> Improper
> A1. ( 8) Cir lf
>
> ( 8) 1s sw, end facing dn
> A2. (16) Down hall 4-in-line, turn alone, ret, face N
> B1. (16) N bal & sw
> B2. ( 8) Long lines fwd & bk
>
> ( 8) 2s sw, end facing up
>
> --
> Grant Goodyear
> web: http://www.grantgoodyear.org
> e-mail: gr...@grantgoodyear.org
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Re: [Callers] Teaching a Mad Robin

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

For me, the obvious problem with the do-si-do analogy is that mad robins
can go in either direction, and if it's counterclockwise, it's the path of
a see-saw instead of a do-si-do (and I don't teach see-saw if I can help
it).

My experience is that the important parts are:
- It's a sideways sliding figure
- You're sliding around neighbor while looking at partner (or vice versa)
- You return to where you started

So this might sound like:
"Don't do it yet. We're about to do a sideways sliding figure called a mad
robin."
(Maybe, add something about returning to starting place if it seems like
it'll help this audience)
"You'll be looking at your partner the whole time but sliding sideways
around your neighbor."
"It starts with, ravens slide to the right in front as larks slide to the
left behind," (dancers are now moving)
"then larks slide to the right in front as ravens slide to the left
behind." (continue moving)
"And you're back where you started."

Also, some people - some beginners, but also some experienced dancers - are
not able to confidently move sideways while keeping their eyes on their
partner, or maybe it's too much staring for them, so they do the motion
without the eye contact. At my local dances I'd say this happens at least
1/3 of the time. Does this feel satisfying? No. Does it work fine? Yes.
I've learned to manage my expectations.

Yoyo Zhou


On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 9:57 AM Don Veino via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Your numbered list approach is just what I did that night (but Gents and
> Ladies). I do like your stressing point 2.
>
> -Don
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Maia McCormick 
> wrote:
> [snip]
>
>>
>> When teaching it from the mic, I've taken to doing it like this:
>> 1. "This is another of those fancy moves that gets you right back where
>> you started. *At the end of this move, you'll be right back here*."
>> 2. "So it's important to *stay on the side of your set*. Lots of people
>> feel like they should cross. Don't."
>> 3. "Lock eyes with your [partner]. You're going to walk a little circle
>> around your [neighbor], while looking at your partner.
>> 4. "[Ravens] take a small step forward, [larks] take a small step back."
>> 5. "Keep your eyes on your partner. Ravens, step to your left and larks
>> step to your right, sliding past your neighbor."
>> 6. "Now larks step forward and ravens step back; larks step right and
>> ravens step left, sliding past your neighbor again."
>> 7. "You're back where you started, hooray! Now let's try that up to
>> speed..." etc.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 24, 2018 at 12:39 PM Don Veino via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As may be obvious, I love Mad Robins. I'm still working on what is the
>>> best way to teach them.
>>>
>>> [snip]
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Re: [Callers] Glossary dances with promenade, no chain/RL through?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Had a busload of beginners at my dance last night and realized I have a
> hole in my program -- I don't have any good glossary/beginner-friendly
> dances with a promenade but no chain or RL through. Any suggestions?
>
>>
A nice one is Promenade Right by Luke Donforth (note: it has a circle
right):
http://www.madrobincallers.org/2013/06/25/three-tries-at-simple-dances/

Also, some of the dances below can be adapted by changing a right and left
thru to a promenade across.


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Alexandra Deis-Lauby  wrote:

> I find that there aren’t many dances with a Promenade or RL that are NOT
> followed by a circle left. When Dancing promenades to circle lefts, I don’t
> like them as an experienced dancer because they don’t feel good and as a
> caller I watch new dancers struggle with them because they don’t flow
> logically unless the dancers correct for it (which one won’t know how to do
> unless they’ve been dancing a very long time and are attuned to momentum.)
>

I agree with your assessment about promenade/right and left thru to circle
left.
I find right and left thru or promenade can also often be followed by one
of these, which flows better:

- ladies chain (very common)

- left hand star (example: True Grit by Chris Page:
http://chrispagecontra.awardspace.us/dances/#true-grit)

- circle right (see above)

- hey, ladies pass right (example: Zoey and Me by Sue Rosen:
http://dance.suerosencaller.com/dancedb/view/?title=Zoey+and+Me)

- ladies allemande right (example: A-1 Reel by Chris Weiler:
http://caller.chrisweiler.ws/dances.htm#a1reel)

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] Star 1/2 -> Star 1/2?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Luke,

A couple of concerns about your dance:

- Second version: Your dance appears to be reverse progression, if you
begin the left hand stars with the neighbor you just swung. It's not
entirely clear though (that neighbor isn't numbered).

- First version: If instead you force the progression to be in the normal
direction in the first version, note that you're already progressed past
neighbor #2 after the swing and chain, so it becomes a double progression.

Other than that, it looks like a fairly simple setting of star-halfway to
star-halfway. I believe there will be end effects though, meaning sometimes
you come in with the gent on the right and lady on the left. It looks like
you have about 4 counts for each star, which looks right to me.


One well-known dance that makes use of a star-halfway to star-halfway
figure is Dutch Crossing. However, its mechanics are slightly different
from most contras (including mine below) since the stars meet at the
corners instead of the sides.


You may be interested in my 4-facing-4 dance Constellation:

A1:
lines of 4 forward and back
(in groups of 4) ladies chain up/down
A2:
(in groups of 4) left hand star 1/2
(center 4) right hand star 1/2
(in groups of 4) left hand star 1/2
(center 4) right hand star 1/2
B1:
N balance, swing (the one you chained to)
B2:
(in groups of 4) circle left 3/4; P swing, face the next

[The timing for star halfway is 4 counts.]

Despite the simplicity of the instructions, it's a hard dance because of
the stars halfway, as Chris alludes to. Here are some of the places that
dancers can get lost:

- You're traveling through the stars as a group with your partner, and the
gent is always in the lead (changes stars first). If you miss a star
transition, it's not really recoverable until the balance and swing. So if
you and your partner don't get it, you just end up having a bad time.
- As in most 4 facing 4s, your pattern alternates each time through.
- How far is halfway? It's sooner than you think, especially for the gents.
If it takes 1-2 counts to switch between stars, you only get to spend 2-3
counts actually holding each star.
- When you're not in the center group of 4, you and your partner have to
stay put, but you should remain improper and not try to change places.
- There could be some confusion with the switch in orientation from up/down
to across the hall in the first star.

As the caller, when prompting this, timing is very tight - basically as
soon as the dancers enter one star, you have to start prompting the next.
The band also has to pick a suitable tune with short phrases.

Cheers,
Yoyo Zhou

On Sun, Apr 22, 2018 at 6:48 AM, Chris Page via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Just a heads-up.
>
> There's a number of ECD dances, especially 4-couple set dances, that have a
> sequence of progressive 1/2 stars.
>
> When teaching them, I find them to be the hardest part of the dance for
> dancers,
> and where it's most likely to break down.
>
> So the difficulty level may be more than you expect.
>
> -Chris Page
> San Diego
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 7:05 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers
> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > I was recently thinking about star to star transitions. There are lots of
> > great dances that go star 1x to opposite hand star 1x (such as Lisa
> > Greenleaf's "Poetry in Motion", Robert Cromartie's "Al's Safeway
> Produce",
> > Linda Leslie's "Burlington Spirit"...); and then there are the star ->
> same
> > hand star dances (Mike Richardson's "Star Trek", my "Voyager", Dugan
> > Murphey's "The Next Generation"...)
> >
> > Are there dances that use star just half way -> with next, opposite hand
> > star 1/2 way? I'm envisioning something with a bit of a zig-zag feel, but
> > that could be done in crowded dance halls where you don't want folks
> > swooping out laterally (like John Coffman's "Boys of Urbana"), but more
> > connected than a single file promenade snake like Cary Ravitz's "March of
> > the Coffee Zombies".
> >
> > Are there already dances out there like this?
> >
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Re: [Callers] New (?) 4x4 contra

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 8:43 AM, Read Weaver via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I don’t understand this—since you can’t comfortably give weight in the
> mill-grip (and you can in hands-across), why does it get you around faster?
> Just because people are more used to it?
>

In a figure like circle right or left hand wrist grip star, if one dancer
realizes it's moving too slowly, they can walk faster and cause the entire
foursome to move faster, because everyone is connected. In a hands-across
star, that dancer is stuck behind someone whom they're not connected to and
who also can't really see them, and speeding up just makes them step on
that person's feet.

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] Great dances for learning how to dance with ghosts?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 2:52 PM, K Panton via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Warning: rabbit hole ahead.
>
> Colin: I read your text for your workshop. All useful stuff and you do say
> more than "treat your partner as a neighbour".
>
> Re Michael Fuerst's quote, I agree that end-effects are what they are and
> they are not (necessarily?) the point of the dance, but they sometimes must
> be dealt with head-on. Example: I have tried to make any sense of the end
> effects in the dance The Hobbit http://www.quiteapair.us/calli
> ng/acdol/dance/acd_283.html . I think it's a great dance - if you can
> avoid the ends - but I'll be [darned] if I can make it around the end
> successfully. I've tried calling it, walking thru at a callers workshop
> with several experienced dancers and none of us could make sense of the
> end-effects. We were missing some magical key to understanding (perhaps
> guarded by Smaug). "Go where you are needed" wasn't going to work. Nor were
> the other rules. Sometimes, it seems, the end-effects must be taught just
> as the dance. No easy feat.
>
In a workshop setting, you probably didn't have as many dancers as a normal
contra set and ran into end effects all the time; this can definitely push
the experience for the dancers from manageable (where people in the middle
can help out the end-effected) to unrecoverable (where everyone is lost),
in my experience.

Here's what Larry Jennings wrote in Give and Take in the theory section
(ML23, End Effects):

"In most cases, however, a neutral twosome should position themselves
across from each other so that the set will have alternating men and women
as the twosome gets reincorporated. If it is not obvious how to plan for
this, it is usually sufficient for the twosome to *scramble* to get the
disposition of dancers at the end of the set as much like the rest of the
set as possible."

This is fine advice for 95% of dances, but it can be challenging to figure
out on the fly.


I recall reading something, possibly from Jim Saxe on this list (and maybe
from Larry Jennings?), about how in most dances without out-of-minor-set
interactions, you come back into the set (and have no full minor set of 4
dancers) once - after progressing to the end. But in dances like The
Hobbit, where you leave the minor set once, you actually come back in to
the set 3 times. So the question for us as callers is, how do you
succinctly teach how to handle all of these situations? Dancers often can't
remember 1 instruction for end effects; 3 is right out.

In The Hobbit, here are the 3 places you come back in. Let's call the top
couple "couple 1", and if someone is waiting out above them, call them
"couple 0".

0. as couple 1 (with nobody out), top of A1
The start of the dance - it's a regular improper dance. Couple 1 should
come in as usual (gents left, ladies right).

1. as couple 1 (with nobody out), B1: pass through to original neighbor
If there's no couple 0, couple 1 goes out in the pull by in A1. We can
figure out that couple 1 should come in as usual (gents left, ladies right).

2. as couple 0, A1: pull by to previous neighbor
This is the couple that just went out at the top. They have to come back in
with gents on the right, ladies on the left! However - this is the key - if
they treat their partner as neighbor at the end (box the gnat, pull by),
they end up in the correct place.


All this is to say that the advice for this dance should be "dance with
your partner as neighbor at the end", because it turns out that works for
all the situations here.

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] freedom

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Tom Hinds via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Here was my issue, briefly :  I was told to use "walk around" when calling
> at glen echo.  It also happens that I'm a western square caller and have
> used "walk around your corner, see saw your taw" for decades.
>

Here is an opportunity to say to the organizers, "I understand your intent
is to avoid certain language, but your proposed substitute doesn't work for
me because I use 'walk around' to mean something else. I would prefer to
use [such and such] or another alternative to avoid confusion. Does that
work for your community?" This is a conversation between you and the
organizers, which will ideally result in clearer communication at the dance
itself. But if they don't want to budge, then you've hopefully communicated
that their rigidness is hindering you from presenting a good program. After
all, we're here to serve the dancers.

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] Politically Correct?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

It looks like this is the version Rich is referring to:
http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=1891

More background on the English folk song / sea shanty this American folk
song is based on:
https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/billyboy.html

In traditional songs things don't really have to work logically - for
example, in this song, there's the lyric, "She's as tall as any pine, And
as straight as a pumpkin vine." So the last verse of the song goes,

"How old may she be,
Billy Boy, Billy Boy?
How old may she be,
Charming Billy?
Three times six and four times seven,
Twenty eight and eleven,
She's a young thing,
And cannot leave her mother."

This, despite the questionable math, puts the refrain into a very ironic
context.

My understanding of square dance singing calls is that many of them were
set to popular music of the time (though I have no idea about this
particular one). So if your audience was expected to know this song and the
context behind the refrain, that would be one thing. Notably, though, the
square dance-edited version is missing this context, and it adds the
line "Promenade
this pretty thing, won't you help me to sing" to the refrain, "She's a
young thing, And cannot leave her mother"! So it'd be quite something else
to hear this line on its own, which makes it sound like you should be
promenading with your underage partners/corners.

There's no universal answer to "is this acceptable" because it depends on
your "contra dance crowd" who is doing the accepting - this can vary widely
between dances, even within the same city. You'll have to figure out if the
dancers are ok with it as is, might be ok with it if you give them some
background about the song before you do the walkthrough, or would not be ok
even with that. However, I think you'll find a lot of other material is
less objectionable to any audience (and you already have some intuition for
this, since you asked the callers list about this one).

Yoyo Zhou

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Darwin Gregory via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> If you are concerned about sexism alternate between she/her and he/his.  
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:39 AM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd.
>> Try your hand at some new lyrics!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
>> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
>> Dick Leger titled Billy Boy.  The tag line that is sung during the
>> Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
>>
>> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>>
>> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with
>> the tag line above?  (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
>>
>> Any Thoughts?
>>
>> Rich
>> Stafford, CT
>>
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Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I don’t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It’s
> descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can’t be easily
> shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So,
> I’m sorry, but I’m not going to be using it.
>

Personally, I use "right shoulder turn" in teaching, and when prompting, I
shorten it to "right shoulder". This is already shorter than "right
allemande", which I don't think can get any shorter.

Also personally, I would find it hard not to cringe when I hear "kipsie"
(and, not being from New York, I would have never made the Poughkeepsie
connection without the help of this list). I feel similarly about "jets" as
a dance role replacement term. It's just a little too close and reminds you
too much of what you're trying to avoid.

How dancers respond to new terms is shaped by their attitudes, which can
range from "I don't want this to change" to "I think this needed changing
but the new thing is awkward" to "I like the new thing" to "I don't care
either way" to "I'm new, what is this?" So different things may work for
different crowds, though you'll hear a lot of feedback from a few vocal
dancers, whereas most dancers I think are closest to feeling "I don't care
either way". But the whole reason we're on this topic is that enough
dancers want it to change.

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] Dance logs and record-keeping

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 5:41 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Dance logs, a cumulative record for a series of which dances have been
> called on any given evening, are very common in the English dance community
> but vanishingly rare in the contra community.  Why is that? They're really
> helpful for incoming callers, and it's probably nice for the dancers not to
> keep getting the same dances week after week.
>

Another factor is that English dances usually specify the tune that goes
with them. Contra dances very rarely do. So if a dance series has a house
band that plays most of the time, as some of the Bay Area English dances
do, then a repeated English dance may be the same figures done to the same
tune played by the same musicians. For a contra, even if the same band
played the same set of tunes, it's typical to change tunes partway through
the dance, anyway, so it's hard to achieve the same degree of repetition.

Of course, repetition isn't always looked down upon. I've heard that the
weekly dance in Nelson, NH always has Chorus Jig on the program, and other
dances that repeat week to week. Some contra dancers do appreciate
recognizing dances - ah, Poetry in Motion, I know how that one goes.

As Mac says, the type of repetition that contra dancers really notice is
within an evening - when four dances in a row have heys, or half of the
dances have Petronella turns, and all start to feel the same... and that's
a type of repetition that's less likely to appear in ECD, where dances that
have similar figures could easily be done to different tempos or meters.

Personally, I keep track of all the dances that I've actually called,
because I don't want to call the same dances all the time; most of the time
it's slightly different from what I programmed originally. I add notes to
myself if something didn't go well. I can't remember if I've been asked by
organizers for my program, but it may have happened once or twice.

Hope this helps!

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] Balancing LEFT in a wave?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

For flow, it depends what comes after the balance. If it's followed by an
allemande left, you'd be better balancing left. Allemande right: balance
right. Walk forward: balance forward and back. Box circulate: right and
back.

But getting dancers to balance left - except as the second half of a Rory
O'More-type figure - is hopeless, in my experience. It's my vote for
"hardest move in contra dancing".

So I'll say "balance forward and back" in such circumstances.

Yoyo Zhou

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 11:07 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Recently called a dance with an allemande R into long waves, balance wave,
> allemande L. Because of personal preference, I taught the balance as
> "balance left, then right", but cuz I didn't teach it all that clearly, the
> dancers defaulted back into balancing right first, and enough tricky stuff
> was happening in the dance that I didn't wanna correct them in flight.
>
> I'm just wondering: do others agree that a balance left makes more sense /
> flows better in this context, or is this a weird personal preference? In
> your opinion, does the flow of the balance left outweigh its potential
> unidiomaticness?
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
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Re: [Callers] Looking for a particular sort of becket dance

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm re-vamping my list of simple contra dances for new callers, and am in
> search of a very particular sort of becket dance.  The list is one of my
> hand-outs for callers' classes at camps, so the folks who'll be using it
> are likely to be nervous, brand-new callers.  To that end, I'm looking for
> sturdy, hard-to-break, low-piece-count dances.  In a perfect world they'd
> be composed of simpler glossary figures.
>
> I already have a fair collection of simple dances to choose from, but
> would like to include one more becket dance (I have Tica Tica Timing
> already on the list).  This perfect becket that I'm looking for should
> _not_ start with circle L 3/4, and should not contain petronella twirls.
> Bonus points if it doesn't have a whole hey, since I've already got a
> couple of whole hey dances in the list.
>

Hi Kalia,

Here are two easy dances that may look similar at first glance but are
actually pretty different:

1. Hot Buttered Rolls
Perry Shafran

A1:
slice left, rollaway P on the way back (ladies)
long lines forward, rollaway P on the way back (gents)
A2:
ladies allemande right 1+1/2
N swing
B1:
circle left 3/4
P do si do
B2:
P balance, swing


2. Pizza Shop
Yoyo Zhou

A1:
slice left
ladies chain
A2:
ladies allemande right 1
N swing
B1:
down the hall; turn as couples
B2:
circle left 3/4
P swing


Cheers,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Another dance-check zig-zag R dance

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Hi Ron,

Maybe instead of "good flow" you could think about "dancers love it" and
instead of "bad flow" you could think about "dancers hate it". Of course
this is a gross false equivalence (dancers love things that aren't flow
too), and it ignores that dancers are all different, but it reminds us that
we're serving the dancers.

In your dance, I'd say the zig left into do si do feels good and you might
even get a comment or two about it, because we don't dance it often. The
right and left thru to gents allemande left is not good flow. Some dancers
will struggle to remember it. A few will mutter to each other. Your friend
who's real with you will tell you, "that was awkward for the gents". Still,
I don't think either of these will provoke a strong reaction, but...

The swing to circle right will really get people talking. You'll see people
try to pull in opposite directions and get jerked around. A few who
wouldn't have said anything about the previous transition will now grumble.
Several experienced dancers will come up to you right after the dance and
tell you how bad it was. But the silent majority will simply be relieved
that it's over with.

BTW, I don't object to circle rights - I think dancers like them just fine
- and I agree with the general goal of breaking up the monotony of swing,
circle left, swing, etc. for variety. But if you call a dance with a bad
flowing circle right, it'll make contra dancers more averse to circle
rights.

Yoyo Zhou

On Mar 14, 2017 8:19 PM, "Ron Blechner via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

I dance the ladies role enough where I feel I can confidently assert that
swing -> circle R is as difficult for gents as swing -> circle L is for
ladies. Either way, one person is unfolding from the swing opposite from
the rotation of the subsequent circle.

The bigger objection to flow is simply that it's a circle right that is
from a standstill, and people don't dance many circle rights. (But we dance
plenty circle lefts from a standstill.) In this case, I'm interested in the
circle R as something to fill a second-half-of-evening slot where I often
have need for dances that are fairly easy but not the same old circle
lefts, swings, stars, chains, and allemandes.

Best,
Ron

On Mar 14, 2017 11:05 PM, "Bob Isaacs via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Ron:
>
>
> Two transitions in this dance I find troubling.  The R and L through/gents
> allemande is awkward for the gents, whose L hand is occupied in the
> courtesy turn of the R and L through.  This can be avoided by 1/2 hey (GL,
> PR, LL, NR), gents allemande L 1 1/2 (or allemande/hey if you prefer that
> order).
>
>
> But swing/circle R?
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> --
> *From:* Callers <callers-boun...@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Ron
> Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 14, 2017 9:49:10 PM
> *To:* callers
> *Subject:* [Callers] Another dance-check zig-zag R dance
>
> So, this is a cross between Jeff Spero's Kiss the Bride and Rick Mohr's
> Rockin' Robin:
>
> Duple Imp.
> A1. N DSD (6)
>NS (10)
> A2. R+L Thru (8) (across)
>Gents Alle L 1.5x (8)
> B1. P Meltdown Swing (16)*
> B2. Circle R 1.25x (10)
>Zig R, Zag L (6) (to next Ns)
>
> I was futzing with Kiss the Bride and this came out. I'd like to give
> credit if it's been written, or pick a name if not.
>
> In dance,
> Ron Blechner
>
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Re: [Callers] Difficult dancers - Decision to ask not to return

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Mark Hillegonds via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> So...what happens if all of the attempts to shepherd and coach and "angel"
> the difficult dancer do not work and their skills and abilities continue to
> be a significant negative impact when they're dancing.
>
> Would you ever (or have you ever) asked someone not to return based on
> their inability to dance?
>
> I realize "inability" is a broad term and I intended it to be so for this
> question. There are lots of reasons why someone may not be able to know
> what to do and/or to be able to keep up when dancing and may not even be
> able to improve.
>
> Is there some point at which you as organizers would consider and
> ultimately such a decision?
>

Here in the SF Bay Area, I know of one dancer who's no longer welcome back
at their local dance because of mobility issues related to aging, and
another who's no longer welcome back because of general behavioral issues
related to Alzheimer's.

As far as I know, these dancers have simply been informed that their
impairments preclude them from dancing with us. (This is different from
being banned for bad behavior - they can still come but would be
discouraged from dancing. By whom, I do not know.) I wasn't involved with
the discussions that led to these decisions, so unfortunately I can't
provide more background, but perhaps other people lurking on this list may
be able to shed more light.

However, we have increased our attention on dancer safety in general, and
it's worth thinking about whether someone's inability to dance actually
affects how safe it is on the floor for them and others around them.

Yoyo Zhou

[Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Hi callers,

I improvised this dance inspired by James Hutson's Treasure of the Sierra
Madre last night, but it seems like it could have been written before. Does
anyone have a title and author for it?

NB. The B2->A1 transition has slightly awkward hands for the gents, but it
seemed to go fine.

A1: N balance, box the gnat; gents allemande left 1+1/2
A2: full hey, pass P right
B1: P balance, swing
B2: circle left 3/4; balance ring, P CA twirl

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Variations of 3-33 by Steve Zakon-Anderson

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Dugan Murphy via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Question two: are there other 3-33-inspired dances out there you know
> about?
>

Tom Hinds has written Four, Forty-Four, Forty-Four (similar to, but not
identical to, your name) and Five, Fifty-Five, Fifty-Five.

Ants Marching by Ron Blechner is also fun:

http://contradances.tumblr.com/post/10510984149/ants-marching

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] What dance is this?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 11:44 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> While we are at this, here is another untitled dance.  I am not sure where
> I collected it.
>
> Can anyone name it?
>
> a1  N B
> a2  LL, Ladies Alle R 1 1/2
> b1  P B
> b2  CL 3/4, Veer Left, Veer Right
>

This looks like a variation of the Boys from Urbana by John Coffman. I
think the timing and flow in the original works better.

See here:
https://sites.google.com/site/capecontradance/home/contra-dances-by-john-coffman

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Fewer than 6 dancers - Ideas?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Dale Wilson via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> We have something we call the "calling party progression" because we
> sometimes try out new dances with only four people present (or four + a
> caller).
>
> We form one set with "Up" being "North" (for example).   At the end of the
> dance we progress by changing "Up" to be "East." and turning to face the
> new direction.  This swaps neighbors for partners, but everyone ends up
> standing in the right place  (although not facing the right direction until
> after the turn) for the next time through the dance.
>
> I'm not sure how well this would work with inexperienced dancers, though
> (and it certainly doesn't work with out-of-set dances, diagonal chains,
> etc.) but for a lot of dances its actually quite fun.
>

Dale's set-rotation progression here is one I've used before. It's fun with
dances where not everybody swings. And you can use it on a huge number of
regular contras.

Other ideas:

- Rory O'More, Petronella, and other classic chestnuts. (It's ok if the
band doesn't know the tune. Not sacrilegious.) Proper dances make the
2-couple progression easy.

- Use other progressions (e.g. for 4 couples, promenade across the set can
become promenade to meet any other couple).

- Do 4-person dances and let the 5th person cut in wherever they please.

- The most fun I've ever had was at Camp Sturtevant where Cis Hinkle was
calling a square, and one square had only 4 dancers, all dancing the gents
role, with ghosts. Some squares can also be done with just 2 couples in
some position or other.

- Teach wacky square dance figures and use them in a simple dance.

- The Humors of Bandon and other Irish ceili and set dances. Lots of set
dances are typically done just for the heads, then just for the sides, in a
square formation; just do it for the heads.

- Call family dances, community dances, etc.

- Borrow some of the musicians, if they are willing to dance.

Try not to cancel the dance unless you all literally would rather go have
some ice cream. Dancers don't go to a dance like this expecting the contra
contra contra experience, but simply that you will lead them in dance and
help them have fun.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Yet another "Anyone seen this dance?"

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Sat, Sep 24, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Alan Winston via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> If you call it tonight, I suspect some dancers will have some trouble with
> the circle left all the way around the second and subsequent times
> through.
>
> But let us know how it goes!
>
I think circle left all the way around (rather than 3/4) is not inherently
difficult for contra dancers.

Circle lefts that are hard:

- Circle left 1/2. It's so easy to just keep circling.

- Ending with gents ahead of ladies on the side. (e.g. N swing; *then*
circle left 1)
  This is because almost all of our circles end with ladies ahead of gents
on the side (to set up for a swing, or a pass thru/CA twirl progression),
so we're very used to ending our circle lefts with ladies in 1st corner and
gents in 2nd corner places.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Another Existential Inquiry

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Swings are fun. I like neighbor swings. So do many dancers. It's more
interaction with your neighbors, which is half the fun. If I have two
dances that are very similar, but one has a neighbor swing and one
doesn't, I would enjoy dancing the one with the neighbor swing more.

However, I also don't think every dance needs a neighbor swing. It is
possible to hold both views! To prefer dances that have neighbor
swings - even composing variations to insert them when they weren't
there originally - and to not require every dance to have a neighbor
swing.

I can't put words in Don's mouth, but he might have merely meant "I
might have called this sooner if it had a neighbor swing", not "I
don't care for dances with no neighbor swing".

Also, Don, you might want to note these are double progression (the
result of left diagonal right and left thru).

On a related note, I prefer single progressions to double
progressions, but not every dance needs to be a single progression...

Cheers,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Is this a new dance?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 1:54 PM, via Callers
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>  Not sure if this has already been written, but it fits a particular spot in
> an upcoming program:
>
> A1 LL FB
> Circle L 1.25 to face P on side
>
> A2 DSD P, Swing P
> (or Balance and Swing P)
>
> B1 LL FB
> Circle L .75 to face N on side
>
> B2 DSD N, Swing N
> (or Balance and Swing N)
>
>  Thanks for any enlightenment!

Hi Ann,

Circle left 1+1/4 in my experience will take at least 10-12 counts.
Perhaps consider:

A1: long lines forward, rollaway neighbor on the way back
  circle left 3/4

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Name that dance

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi All,
> I collected a dance from Lisa Greenleaf. Neither she nor the person
> from whom she collected it knows the author. I'm hoping you can help
> me. Here it is:
>
> Holiday Daze
> Becket
> A1 Cir L 3/4, pass through
> New neighbor swing
> A2 Long lines F
> Ladies chain
> B1 Left diag. hey for 4
> B2 (original) Ladies L shoulder gypsy
> Partner swing
>

Hi Amy,

I believe this is called Holidaze Haze, and it's by Cheri Glaser.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Rorys + Grand R+L?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Oh, Hi Turtle! by Emily Rush has some Rory O'More followed by some grand
right and left (right, left, allemande right, left):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmanTMdXRM

P.S. it's not obvious that you wanted to also grand right and left the
other way back, because e.g. in a square dance you often only go one way.

Yoyo Zhou

On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 2:12 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I like these two at a glance; I'll take a closer look later. Thank you.
>
> At the same time, I was asking for pulling by both ways, not just one way,
> so more suggestions still welcome.
> On Jun 20, 2016 4:50 PM, "Bob Isaacs" <isaacs...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ron and All:
>
> I hope this isn't too weird for you.  It adapted the diagonal Rory spins
> first seen in Bill Olson's Eleanor's Reel into a single progression dance:
>
> Let It Flow
> Becket-L
> Bob Isaacs, 7/26/04
>
>
> A1.  8  L diagonal circle L ¾
> 2,2,4N1 pull by R, N2 pull by L, N3 allemande R ¾ to
> wave/4(1)
>
> A2.  4,4   Balance R and L, spin R forward to wave/4 w/N2
> (2)
> 4,4   Balance L and R, spin L forward
>
> B1.  4,12 N1 balance, swing
>
> B2.  4  Give and take to gent’s side
> 12Partner swing
>
>
> (1) – With gents taking L hands in the center and N3 keeping R hands on
> the side.
>
> (2) – With ladies taking R hands in the center and N2 taking L hands on
> the side.
>
> *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eMPU6Enh-M*
> <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eMPU6Enh-M>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LecYtmgdLLE
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ZneH9zwsw
>
> Bob
>
> --
> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 15:34:47 -0400
> To: call...@sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Rorys + Grand R+L?
> From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
> Any contra dances out there with a grand right and left around the set and
> Rory OMoore spins? (Standard 32bar, nothing too weird)
>
> I thought I've danced one that went something like:
>
> Indecent
> A1. N1 Pull by R, N2 Pull by L, N3 Pull by R, N4 Alle L 1x, N3 by R, form
> wavy lines with N2, LH to N2, ladies in center.
> A2. Bal, Spin L, Bal, Spin R ...
>
> Then something? Maybe ladies spin all the way across on that second spin,
> B+S partner, circle, do-si-do?
>
> Or maybe the pull-bys go back to N1, and RH to N1 in waves?
>
> Thanks,
> Ron Blechner
>
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>
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>

Re: [Callers] Dolphin Heys in contra dances

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Looks like I'm late to the party. Glad to hear other folks are having fun
> with it :-)
>
> I didn't know it came via Scottish, but that makes sense. It's called
> tandem or alternating tandem reels there?
> It's not clear to me how it ended up being called a dolphin hey instead of
> a falcon hey; but I'm not going to try to change that vernacular.
>
> When I ran it for contras, I had a demo on the floor (jumping down myself
> to do it, or working with a couple I had taught ahead of time). If I keep
> it rotation, I'll see if I can develop the language to teach it completely
> verbally; but for now I'll rely on a demo. I'd also be curious how other
> folks teach it; and I'll query some instructors of Scottish and/or English.
>
> It was fun to see Kittyhawk Hornpipe in the RPDLW archive. Thank you Yoyo
> for pointing that out. I didn't manage to find a transcription of Nils's
> Maggot. What dance did you substitute a dolphin hey into?
>

It was indeed Kittyhawk Hornpipe that I called.

Martha's dance (in which actually the 2s act as a unit in the hey for 3) is
on her website: https://sites.google.com/site/marthawildscallsofthewild/

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Dolphin Heys in contra dances

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Hi Luke,

I also love dolphin heys!

Earlier this year I made a substitution of a dolphin hey for an ordinary
hey for 3 (with the 1s acting as a unit). That appears as a figure in
several contra dances (e.g. Kittyhawk Hornpipe by Don Armstrong or Nils's
Maggot by Martha Wild, where you end up back where you started, 1s in the
middle, in a line of 4 to go down the hall, so it's forgiving even if you
don't get the hey quite right).

I think it worked well for the crowd at the time, but I haven't determined
how best to teach the dolphin hey to contra dancers. I used a
demonstration. Any suggestions?

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] New (?) dance, B1 balance, B2 balance and partner swing

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

I was trying to come up with a dance last night that fit different
parameters (full hey, no chain, and more balances), but it ends up fitting
Luke's parameters too. I ended up not using this one, but has Bob (or
another choreographer) written it already?

Becket
A1: (slide left to progress,) circle left 3/4, N swing
A2: full hey for 4, gents pass left; the second time ladies meet, they
ricochet; make long waves, right hand to P
B1: balance right, slide right; balance left, slide left
B2: P balance, swing

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Role Scramblers dances with balances

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 11:19 PM, Lindsey Dono via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Callers,
>
> I'm working on a themed contra workshop called "Role Scramblers," and just
> realized that all of the dances I've shortlisted are very smooth. I'm
> looking for dances with elements for each dance role that are more
> typically danced by the other role (such as Jeff Spero's "Equal
> Opportunity," which has the ones chain). I have "Roll Away Sue" by Bob
> Isaacs (a gent's chain), but would love other dances with balances and
> waves that might fit this theme.
>
>
Some that I have that are more balancey (feel free to email me if you need
the notes):

The Dancing Frog by Jeff Spero - gents do a right-hand chain
Chain the Swain by Becky Hill - gents do a right-hand chain
Coming Home from Toohollie by Janet Shepherd - ladies rollaway partners
into a swing; petronella
The Digital Divide by Jeremy Korr - alternates gents/ladies chain and
give-and-take to gents'/ladies' side; balance + square thru

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Becket Formation

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Dec 10, 2015 11:45 AM, "Rich Sbardella via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for the last dance ,
put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that they do not like
Beckets.

This is unusual behavior. More on that below.

> Is there a negative sentiment about Becket formation among many dancers?
If so, can someone explain the reason?

No and no.

Imagine that instead of Becket, the caller announced, the last dance will
be a square. Or a shadow swing dance. Or a triple minor chestnut with no
partner swing. Or a mazurka quadrille, with footwork. How would it be
reasonable for the dancers to respond?

What if you didn't know ahead of time? Say you start out improper and
circle all the way instead of 3/4, and surprise, actually Becket. Or a
shadow swing unannounced. Or the caller asks you to do something dangerous.
Or a dance that the caller is simply unprepared to teach well. How do you
respond?

We have an unstated social contract (thanks to Seth Tepfer from whom I
learned this idea) between the band, the caller, and the dancers. The
dancers and band trust the caller to lead the event; in doing so, they cede
some of their autonomy. They agree to listen to the caller and go along
with their program, not dancing their own dance or playing their own music
whenever they feel like it. But this trust depends on the caller's ability
to earn it. (It's this way in any teaching situation.)

As callers, we show the dancers we are worthy of their trust by knowing
what we are doing, and by meeting community expectations. (For example, at
least in my area, some callers call both English dances and contra dances,
but these communities have come to expect different styles of teaching.)
Call dances which flow nicely, are fun, are not too hard to learn, are
contra dances, etc. but occasionally teach us something new, do a square
dance, etc.

On the dancers' side, the social contract I think includes a lot of
measures of commitment. If the caller is doing their job well, you agree to
dance with a partner, in a line, across from neighbors, and keep doing the
dance the caller is leading, and respect your fellow dancers' boundaries.
Or maybe you sit out if you're tired, you don't like this formation, or you
just don't want to dance. These are your choices, and you don't have to
involve other people in them.

It definitely feels awkward when people go outside the social contract: The
caller doesn't know what they're talking about. The caller calling out
individuals for 'doing it wrong'. Dancers disrupting the caller. Dancers
making each other uncomfortable. Dancers dropping out of the middle of the
set. Dancers making a dramatic departure.

So I'm not sure what dancers are accomplishing by making a show of not
liking Becket dances and leaving*. Presumably Becket dances are as much a
part of your community's expectations as they are of mine. Having bought
into the social contract, we respond with "those people are being weird",
not "the caller should not call Beckets".

(*: actually, in your original example, Rich, I'm not sure if they were
obnoxious about it or just said it privately to the dancers near them.)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Contras with a Hey

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Do you like half heys? My suggestions there for nice forgiving dances are
Hocus Pocus by Lisa Greenleaf and The Social Butterfly by John Coffman.

Star promenade into hey is also great. You might enjoy Heart of Glass by
Cary Ravitz.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] [trad-dance-callers] Dances with R & L Thru

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Nov 24, 2015 5:22 AM, "Rich Sbardella richsbarde...@gmail.com
[trad-dance-callers]" <trad-dance-call...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> I am looking for a few good contras with a R & L Thru that do not contain
a Ladies chain.  Any suggestions?

Here are some of my favorites:

Sarah's Journey by Gene Hubert
The Turning Point by Gene Hubert
Northeast on Southwest by Susan Petrick
Raeden Reel by Bob Isaacs
Deirdre's Delight by Erik Hoffman

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Gypsy perception

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Hi folks. I was so ready to be done with this discussion, but.

Regardless of your views on the matter at hand, the goal of this discussion
list is to be a place for respectful exchange of ideas. After all, we
welcome even the most naive questions from the most novice callers, because
we are here to support one another, not tear each other down. Do you
respect your fellow callers and email writers? You don't have to agree with
their views. All you need is good faith.

Unkind speculation on their motivations is - at best - irrelevant
meta-meta-discussion. (Not about "gypsy", not even about the discussion of
it, but about the people discussing it.) You are welcome to think these
thoughts, but they contribute nothing to our discussion; please don't air
them here.

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou
On Nov 2, 2015 05:08, "Donald Perley via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> It often seems like people on contra email lists and facebook get more
> joy from seeking problems to fix it through political correctness than
> they do from dancing itself.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Tom Hinds via Callers
> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > No Aahz my logic is broken.  Our perceptions and experiences are
> different.
> >
> > You said,
> >
> >> The question isn't whether using "gypsy" generates negative stereotypes
> >> but whether using the word reminds people of existing negative
> stereotypes
> >> and whether the people referred to by the word have negative reactions
> to
> >> the use of the word.
> >
> >
> > Aahz, you can define the discussion in a narrow way but I prefer to keep
> it
> > more open.
> >
> > This may surprise you but I have a favorable view of the Romani.  In the
> > '80s I danced Flamenco and developed a deep respect for them.  More
> recently
> > I saw a documentary on their culture that centered around a performance
> of
> > them from various countries.  So my view of them has been positive!
> Until
> > this discussion.
> >
> > To be honest, the more I read from those who don't want to use the word
> > gypsy (in private from some), the less favorable these people are in my
> mind
> > which I don't want.  I realize that your intentions are good but with me
> > you've accomplished the opposite of what you want.  Perhaps you should
> > consider not using their name in the same sentences with derogatory
> terms.
> > Don't underestimate the power of association.
> >
> > Tom
> > ___
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> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
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>

Re: [Callers] Advice about "gypsy"

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Since when I'm prompting, I sometimes just say "right shoulder" (or "left
shoulder" for a left shoulder gypsy), I'm going to try using that as the
name the next time I call. The teaching would look like:

"Point your right shoulder at your neighbor and look them in the eyes. Walk
around them. Swing."
or
"This neighbor allemande right once and a half. Go on to the next neighbor
with a left shoulder - point your left shoulder at them, look them in the
eyes, and walk around once, but come back to your first neighbor and swing."

(Of course, this means that see-saws are a little bit more confusing, since
in teaching them, one often uses the words "left shoulder". But those are
rare enough that I'm not overly concerned.)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Rolling Starts?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Lindsey's response is so good I almost didn't have anything to add. I'll
say though that the most important thing is communication. Ideally you'd
arrange things beforehand, but I can only speak about the surprise
situation, where the band can't put down their instruments, which has
happened to me.

Listen to the music and know where the phrases are. You'll want to make
sure the band knows when you're starting for reals. Whatever you do, make
it really obvious. So make eye contact, gesticulate, and get an
acknowledgement just before you begin. You could break the illusion a
little by saying, "the dance starts here with..." but I wouldn't consider
that enough by itself to cue the band. Even more illusion-breaking: at the
appropriate place in the music, you could even give the band potatoes: "5,
6, balance now".

It's not a big deal though if the first swing happens to be 20 counts long
or something. Tell the dancers to keep swinging, etc. I find it's easier to
adjust the dancers to fit the music.

Now of course if you really want to break it up, you can tell the band to
knock it off, perhaps if you're teaching something intricate and need the
dancers' full attention. It's a bit of a letdown but maybe better than
crashing later. Be apologetic.

I think dances that might work especially well, for when you want to plan a
rolling start in advance, are those that have an unusual starting position
that is slightly disorienting to go back to, so that it's easier to just
carry on. I'm thinking of Chuck the Budgie and other such Rick Mohr dances.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Does this dance exist? / Beginner dances with chain, without star-L prog

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

HI Maia,

When doing a ladies chain for the first time, I prefer to call a chain
to neighbor, rather than partner, so that new dancers get an
opportunity to practice courtesy turns with lots of different people
(we've all seen the new couples who can't remember which are the
counterclockwise vs. clockwise turns).

(Of course you can't win 'em all, like new dancers who show up halfway
through the dance.)

Many of Linda's suggestions feature chains to neighbor. Some of my
favorite easy dances with such chains are:

Forgotten Treasure
Beth Parkes
A1: N balance, swing
A2: down the hall, turn as couples
B1: circle left 3/4, P swing
B2: long lines forward and back, ladies chain

Although this has the ladies chain -> next N balance transition which
can even be not easy for experienced dancers, it's generous with
recovery time.

???
Susan Petrick?
A1: N balance, swing
A2: gents allemande left 1+1/2, P swing
B1: long lines forward and back, ladies chain
B2: balance ring, roll away P lady across; balance ring, roll away N
lady up/down

I collected this from Susan Petrick who calls it Missing You, but
she's not sure where she may have got it from. Note how similar it is
to Lavender and Lilac / The Missing Piece.

Made Up Tonight (Which is No Longer True)
Erik Hoffman

A1: N balance, swing
A2: ladies chain over and back
B1: circle left 3/4, P swing
B2: circle left 3/4, balance ring, 2s arch and 1s dive through

And there's Trip to Lambertville by Steve Zakon-Anderson, which can be
made easier with a B1/B2 variation that's apparently common:

A1: ladies walk to long wave, balance; gents walk to long wave, balance
A2: gents allemande left 1/2, balance wave; N swing
B1: circle left 3/4; P swing
B2: long lines forward and back; ladies chain

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Problem dancers / Crying Wolf

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Taking you at face value: if you have a systemic problem, you need a
policy. If you have a problem with one person, you need to come to
terms with that person. I'm not sure if it's just the board, or if
other dancers also have issues with her. But if you seek mediation,
take notes on your interactions so you have evidence to back yourself
up.


Now, I think the last thing you need is a policy requiring victims to
speak up. It's counterproductive to making a safe dance space.  (Let's
discuss that on the other thread.)

Let's say I'm new to your dance and I have a bad experience with
someone. What do I do? I might complain about it to my friends who
convinced me to come. I might just avoid that person. I might just go
home dissatisfied. One of the last things I might do is complain to
the management (and I might view that woman as an extension thereof),
because who knows if they'll just shrug it off and not take me
seriously?


Also, you wrote, "it seems to me that she's committing violence." No,
I disagree. This totally cheapens the meaning of "violence". What
words do you use for when punches are actually thrown? (It's happened
at a dance here.)

Yoyo Zhou

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Maybe. Maybe not. My point was that we should be very, very careful about
> making a definitive statement about something being "just an accusation",
> especially when in your example, there was a second problem - even if it was
> a year earlier.
>
> On Sep 9, 2015 10:39 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers"
> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Appreciate that.  Don't think the "where there's smoke there's fire" issue
>> applies here, though.  It would if there were several different women
>> complaining about one man...
>>
>> 
>> Lindsay Morris
>> CEO, TSMworks
>> Tel. 1-859-539-9900
>> lind...@tsmworks.com
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ron Blechner <contra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Lindsay,
>>>
>>> I realize this is a tricky topic, so apologies in advance if my brevity
>>> comes off as bruskness.
>>>
>>> These two suggestions work for Amherst Contra.
>>>
>>> As a proxy complaint comes in, a board member would seek out the source.
>>> Anonymous complaints are permitted, and a high level of ensuring that we ask
>>> open-ended questions, and not leading questions.
>>>
>>> We also wear board member buttons at dances and make regular
>>> announcements about us being available for any reason. Usually 4-7 members
>>> of our board attend any dance.
>>>
>>> You might speak privately to Will Loving, our lead organizer, if you're
>>> interested in more specifics.
>>>
>>> I would also caution about making such definitive statements as "just an
>>> accusation". In my experience, where there's smoke, there's fire. For every
>>> accusation, there's five people who are too uncomfortable to speak up.
>>>
>>> That said, I have seen the success of proactive addressing of issues. The
>>> biggest benefit is simple:
>>>
>>> Address it early when it's small, and not a huge deal. Maybe it's a
>>> simple misunderstanding. Maybe the person needed a clear boundary drawn. But
>>> wait until there's a pile of complaints, and you've already lost dancers and
>>> the resolution will need to be more severe for the offender.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Ron Blechner
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2015 10:08 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers"
>>> <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Chris Weiler's Positive Solutions on dealing with problem dancers, and
>>>> the CDU Policy are thoughtful and useful documents.
>>>>
>>>> We have a different problem here.
>>>>
>>>> One woman often complains to board members about men she sees as
>>>> creepers or sexual predators. She reports their misbehavior on behalf of
>>>> their victims. The victims don't initiate these reports.*
>>>>
>>>> Many others don't see these men as creepy or inappropriate.  Recently
>>>> one of the "victims" clarified that her discomfort with the man was a year
>>>> ago and she'd long ago dealt with it to her satisfaction.  The man in
>>>> question had heard only rumors that some nameless woman was unhappy about
>>>> some nameless thing he'd done.
>>>>
>>>> This woman also pu

Re: [Callers] Irish Contra Dances

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Don Heinold via Callers
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi SharedWeight callers & friends
>
> I'm a caller from RI and am fairly new to this site. I have been enjoying
> the informational posts on the many different issues that involve present
> day and past contra dancing.
>
> In April I have been asked to call at what is being billed as an "Irish
> Contra Dance". Contra dancing as I know has its roots in New England and
> before that in English Country Dancing and French Court Dances.
> Unfortunately I only know one Irish contra Dance that is used at some
> beginner contra dances - "The Sweets of May". Are there others that have
> been tailored to the set style of contra dancing?  Your suggestions will be
> gratefully received.

And the Sweets of May is done in a square formation, if I recall. You
should definitely find out what the organizers are expecting, and
given what you've been told already, it sounds like they don't have a
fully formed idea, so you may need to have some back-and-forth about
what they want and what you can offer.

If by some strange circumstance you are expected to present ceili
dances in contra formation, you probably want to find a local group
that does such dances first, but you can also take a look at Terry
O'Neal's _Syllabus of Irish Dances_ here, which has an index by
formation, among other things:
http://ceili.stanford.edu/ourDances.html

If on the other hand, they just want contra dancing to Irish music, as
Alan says, that is something more understandable. If the band hasn't
played for contras before then you'll want to talk with them about
expectations.

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] How Would You Teach This Hey?

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

Don, it sounds like your zig-zag into 5/8 hey is a lot like a dance I
wrote last year with Lindsey Dono. In that one, the zag-zig is to the
right, then left; similarly, the weaving the line is with your partner
with the lady on the left and gent on the right, and gents begin the
hey passing left shoulders.

However, your notes are insufficiently clear on this - until I saw
Aahz's email I did not realize yours has just about the same setup,
because it has a zig-zag-zig (because you didn't write the last zig
left to face N#3 into it). I think it's conventional for a zig to
refer to motion in one direction and zag to motion in the other, so
you need a zigzag to pass one neighbor. For example, see Rick Mohr's
notes on his dance Leave the Wine:
http://rickmohr.net/Contra/Dances.asp#LeaveTheWine

So the way I would transcribe your dance is:

4 circle left
4 zig left, zag right past N1
4 zag right, zig left past N2; face N3
4 gents pass left to start a hey, pass partner right
8 continue, 1/2 hey*
8 P swing

(*: Incidentally, we call the middle part of the sequence [ladies
chain to P / hey to other side / P balance and swing] a 1/2 hey even
though there are only 3 passes of a hey, i.e. 3/8 of a hey. The same
thing happens here, so you would be justified in calling the hey in
this dance a 3/4 hey.)

I do think this flows well; it's similar to the entry to the hey in
Joyride from a poussette.

Ok, the actual question you posed: how do you teach this entry into
the hey? You face N3 and make sure they are the focus of attention.
Then, for teaching purposes, ladies take a step left, out of the set.
(Now everyone is in a clear position, though you might add, gents take
a step forward between your neighbors.) These gents pass left to start
a hey across, pass partner right, ladies pass left, etc. When you meet
your partner again, swing.


Finally, some meta-commentary. The more new and unfamiliar pieces you
have in a dance, the harder it is for dancers to learn each one of
them, because they have more stuff to try to remember, and they are
more likely to end up confused and unconfident that they're doing the
right thing. End effects don't help matters. I believe you're correct
that you come in in A2 on the zig zag with ladies on the left, but
also you want to be crossed-over when you come in for A1. This is just
to say that this new transition would be easier for dancers to learn
in a simpler context, so if I were going to teach this hey, I would
teach it in a different dance.


By the way, here's the dance I mentioned:

Life Is Short; Dance Often
Lindsey Dono, Yoyo Zhou
November 11, 2014
becket left

A1: circle left 1; ladies chain to N1
A2: mad robin around N1; circle right 1
B1: (~4) with P, zag right, zig left to face N2; (~12) ~3/4 hey, gents pass left
B2: P balance, swing

(You come in from the ends in B1 with the lady on the left.
I was concerned about the timing of B1, of course, with the balance at
B2, but it worked really well in practice.)

(P.S. In a Becket dance that ends this way, you get the benefit of
being able to start the teaching with a swing at home to identify
where to swing your partner.)

Yoyo Zhou

On Mar 29, 2015 2:53 PM, "Don Veino via Callers"
<callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Another recent composition (thanks to Luke for getting me thinking about 
> Zig-Zags!), called this to good feedback earlier this month.
>
> Only tricky part of the teaching was the A2 through B1 Hey entry... how would 
> you teach this? I generally hate breaking the flow of a dance in a 
> walk-through if possible to maintain it, but some folks got lost when I first 
> taught it as "...Hey - Gents pass left shoulders across, Pass Partner 
> Right..."
>
> My current thinking is to form a teaching-only wave across with Gents by left 
> in center, have them note the side Gent is on (will Swing P back here when 
> meet second time), drop hands and start the Hey.
>
> Thanks,
> -Don
>
> PS: At least one dancer needed re-assurance that passing through in reverse 
> of progression was correct the first time around. :)
>
> Hey, Let's Zig-Zag!
> [Type]: Contra[Formation]: Duple Improper[Author]: Don Veino
> [Status]: DV::
> [Comments]: Zig-Zag into Hey dance (first of it's kind?). Tricky two forward, 
> one back progression.
> ::
> [A1]:
> (4,12) NEIGHBOR BALANCE, SWING
> ::
> [A2]:
> (4,4) CIRCLE LEFT 1/2, Ladies lead P ZIG LEFT [past CURRENT Ns]
> (4) ZAG RIGHT [passing NEXT Ns, to face 3rd Ns] and SEPARATE from P
> #PROGRESSION 1&2
> (4) HEY 1/8, GENTS START BY LEFT [across set, GL, PR, etc.]
> ::
> [B1]:
> (8) HALF HEY [so 5/8 total, until meet P 2nd time]
> (8) PARTNER SWING [on Lady's home side]
> ::
> [B2]:
> (4,4) RING BALANCE, LADIES ROLL GENTS [DIAGONALLY back-to-back across set, NO 
> Half Sashay] *OR* Alternate: Gents Cross by Right
> (4,

Re: [Callers] Fwd: Timing on a zig and zag

[Yoyo Zhou via Callers]

The timing on zigzags is indeed squishy. That means the choreography can
fit it one way or another, but dancers will be prone to get there early or
late if it doesn't fit well.

Here's something to compare with: allemandes. I think it's well-established
that allemande 1+1/2 takes 8 counts.

How about allemande half? Is it 2 or 4 counts? Depends on the choreography.
Allemande once? 4? 6? Those are common, but even 8 is possible.
Allemande twice? etc.

Context matters here, especially when the figures before and after may also
be squishy. An allemande gets less time if it's preceded by, say, a circle
left all the way, vs. a circle left 3/4.

Also, when we say "allemande 1+1/2", sometimes it's really 1+1/4 or 1+3/4.
Similarly, what comes after the zigzagging affects its distance - zig left,
zag right, new neighbor allemande left doesn't require you to travel as far
as zig left, zag right, new gents allemande left (which is almost, but not
quite, zigzag past 1+1/2 couples!).

All that said, I agree with Tom, but my opinion is that zigzag past two
couples fits well in 8 counts, and zigzag past one couple can fit in 4 or a
little more, like an allemande once. It depends.

Yoyo Zhou
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Re: [Callers] choreography

[Yoyo Zhou]

I found one possible interpretation for those 4+4 beats:

Pass the ocean (ladies have left hand in center, neighbor in right hand).
Neighbor pull by / allemande right 1/2, gents pull by left. (Pass the ocean
+ swing thru as it might be called in squares.)

On May 22, 2014 8:57 PM, "Jack Mitchell"  wrote:
>
> Hey Donna--
>
> Looks like a great dance, but I'm confused by B1b.  Pass the ocean...so
> that's 4 beats and gets you into a short wave with the ladies in the
> middle.  Then in () you have ladies left, neighbor right, gents pull by.
> So that's essentially a centers trade, swing thru, but wouldn't you
already
> have your neighbor in your right hand in the wave?  Can you clarify?
>
>
> On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Donna Hunt  wrote:
>
> >
> > Here's one of mine if you think it might be helpful.
> >
> >
> > DanceGypsy’s Honeymoon  DonnaHunt
> > Becket-R
> > A1.  4,4   Balance, Petronella turn 1½
> > (facenew neighbors up and down)
> > 4,4   Balance, Petronella turn (face across)
> >  A2.  8  Ladies allem L 1½
> > 8  Neighbor swing
> >  B1.  8  Long lines forward and back
> > 8  Pass the ocean (ladies left, neighborright, men
> > pull by)
> >  B2.  16Partner gypsy and swing
> > When out have dancers stand with ladies on left.
> >
> > Written for Mike and JoEllen Jendzeizyk’smarriage (April 2005).  Best
> > tuneis Wizard’s Walk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Donna Hunt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Joy Greenwolfe 
> > To: Caller's discussion list 
> > Sent: Mon, May 19, 2014 4:50 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Callers] choreography
> >
> >
> > Other dances with petronella balance and twirls in the A are The Gypsy
> > Bride by
> > Robert Cromartie and the String Beings (which goes with the tune of the
> > same
> > name), and Go To Moondance for Fun by Dean Snipes.
> >
> > Joy
> > Durham, NC
> >
> > On May 19, 2014, at 4:17 PM, Joe Micheals wrote:
> >
> > > Folklife is coming up in Seattle this weekend.  Looking for dances
with
> > Petronella's in the "A" part of the dance (besides the original).   I
came
> > up
> > with Heart Beat Contra, Cure for the Claps & Barberella.  Any others
top of
> > mind?
> > > -Joe Micheals
> > > ___
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> > > call...@sharedweight.net
> > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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> >
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Re: [Callers] choreography

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Mon, May 19, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Joe Micheals <joemichea...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Folklife is coming up in Seattle this weekend.  Looking for dances with 
> Petronella's in the "A" part of the dance (besides the original).   I came up 
> with Heart Beat Contra, Cure for the Claps & Barberella.  Any others top of 
> mind?

A few more:
Joel's in the Kitchen, by Sue Rosen
Becket in the Kitchen, by Becky Hill
Spring Break, by Nils Fredland
Love at First Swing, by Bob Isaacs

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Bubble Sort Contra Dance

[Yoyo Zhou]

I found this dance, which I wrote down from Nils's calling. You do start
out with a partner, but you lose them multiple times.

It's an entertaining dance to do once in a while, but it can be less fun
for tall people who start at the top of the hall or short people who start
at the bottom and therefore never go anywhere and never see new neighbors.
(Presumably, you can convince dancers to switch around their starting
positions to avoid that.)

The Bubble Network
Gregory Dyke
gender-unspecific mixer contra

A1  N balance, swing
A2  circle left 3/4, "P" swing
B1  lines of 4 down the hall
  middles turn as couple, ends turn alone, return
B2  balance ring, petronella
  balance ring, CA twirl to face next N

All swings end with the taller person on the left.

Yoyo Zhou


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 3:06 PM, <johnfr...@aol.com> wrote:

> I guess that my question is why would you want to do this? I suppose that
> it was at least a bit fun if folks remember it.
>
>
>
> John B. Freeman, SFTPOCTJ
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> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>

Re: [Callers] three couples or less

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 6:33 PM, Sue Robishaw <s...@manytracks.com> wrote:
>  In the B2 of the dance, Microchase you say "Turn Single (spacer if
> needed.") Is that because there's music left over after the arch and all
> thru? 
>
> Yes, I'd simply changed from the Contra Corners in the original to DoSiDos
> but almost always had time left so ended up adding the TS. I like your
> arrangement though and look forward to trying it. Even better, it starts
> with something other than F! I just realized I only have one dance in
> about 50 that has arming in it (other than ECD). Don't know why I didn't
> notice that before. Thanks!

I believe the original (Microchasmic) has B1 partner balance and
swing, B2 all cast off and 1s arch and the rest go through. It looks
like your variation changes the 16-count balance and swing to an
8-count 2-hand turn, which is where the extra time to turn single
comes from. The cast off and arch ("peel the banana" I've heard it
called) feels to me like a single figure, so I like it being all in
one phrase.

I do like Tom's suggestion; the partner left arm turn flows nicely to
the first corner.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Circle & pass through as the last move of a dance

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 2:42 PM, Read Weaver <rwea...@igc.org> wrote:
> In the last few years, I find myself dancing a lot more dances that end with
> Circle left 3 places and pass through
>
> What I find is that about 3/4 of the dancers take 8 counts to do the circle 3 
> places, then a brief but indeterminate amount of time to do the pass through, 
> and then arrive late to the next couple & next figure. (The other 1/4 take 6 
> counts to circle, 2 to pass through, and are then on the music's phrasing for 
> the next figure.)

Don't forget those who opt for 6-8 counts to circle + 2 counts to
twirl their neighbor + 2 to pass through. (The twirl doesn't
necessarily break the flow, but it can make late dancers later.)

> Have others noticed it as an issue? (And am I right that it's a relatively 
> recent issue?) Thoughts on what to do about it, if anything?

Yes, it's an issue. I have noticed that while calling, calling "pass
through" and "balance" with enough leading (e.g. "..._pass_ _through_,
_on_ to the _next_, _bal_ance _now_!") can help, especially once the
dancers have the pattern and I'm going to drop out soon.

Teaching-wise, one can also mention that the circle has to be
purposeful (the same tip for circle left all the way in 8 beats). But
teaching can only do so much.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Flow & Glide Contras

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 6:14 AM, John Sweeney <i...@contrafusion.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am planning some workshops, for festivals here in the UK, with the title
> "Flow & Glide Contras: Dances with beautiful flow, connectivity and a
> smooth, satisfying glide."  (Thanks to Sarah VanNorstrand and no doubt many
> others for the title!)
>
> I have lots of ideas already, but am always interested in finding great
> dances that I am not familiar with.
>
> If you don't mind sharing, please let me know your favourite ONE or TWO
> contras that fit this description.

I know you asked for one or two, but it's always hard to pick
favorites. My suggestions are

Reel to Reel (Cary Ravitz)
Uncle Toby's Picnic (the variation with square thru 3 hands; multiple authors)
Crow Flight (Rick Mohr)
Judah Jig (Charlie Fenton)

These are dances with good flow, good connection (hand or eye), and
interesting smooth transitions, and they're also fun.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Is it possible to have more 2s than 1s in a pinch?

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 7:23 PM, Leslie Gotfrit <lgotf...@me.com> wrote:
> That is, in a pinched space. I don't know how else to phrase it. Is it 
> possible to wait out an extra turn or two at the bottom so that the number of 
> couples actually dancing is smaller than the number of couples in the contra 
> line? (I couldn't look up the question in the archives because explaining it 
> is wordy.) Has anyone tried it?
>
> Are there other methods for dealing with not enough room?

It seems easiest to let as many couples dance as are comfortable with
the space and suggest to them that they can swap out when they reach
the end(s) of the line. It's possible to arrange this in a particular
way, but some dancers want to dance more and others want to sit out
more, so they can work out among themselves who gets to go in the next
time.

(Of course, some dances that deal with multiple neighbors or shadows
with be more ...interesting... to swap during.)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] What is this dance called?

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Greg McKenzie <greken...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The first half of the dance is a lot like "Pedal Pushers" by Bob Dalsemer,
> and like "Suzie's Choice" (I don't have the author.)  But I prefer your
> dance because it is more connected and would require less walk-through than
> either of those dances.
>
> Do you have a name yet?  I would like to use it.  I particularly like the
> progression transition from right hand star into Gent's left hand turn.

Thanks, good point about the A part. It was pointed out to me that for
the gents the allemande is not actually as far as 1+1/2 to get to the
other side where their partner is, so call it once and a little more.
(In Give and Take, Pedal Pushers has it written as 1+1/4.)

Viewed another way, it's the A part of Pedal Pushers and the B part of
Harmony Supper Line (by Jim Saxe) connected with a progression similar
to Sweet Music. To give a nod where nods are due, I think that means I
have to call it:

Pedal Point
improper
A1. gents allemande left 1+1/4; P star promenade
A2. ladies do si do; P swing
B1. circle left 3/4; N swing
B2. long lines; right hand star

Yoyo Zhou

[Callers] What is this dance called?

[Yoyo Zhou]

Hi callers,

I'd be most surprised if this dance hadn't been written already (it
occurred to me because I thought I'd danced part of it somewhere, but
I just found that the progression transition is like Amy Kahn's Sweet
Music). Does anyone recognize it?

improper
A1. gents allemande left 1+1/2; P star promenade
A2. ladies do si do; P swing
B1. circle left 3/4; N swing
B2. long lines; right hand star

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Tranquility

[Yoyo Zhou]

Here's an animation of pass the ocean (sometimes called pass thru to
an (ocean) wave) from a square dance club, since it's a move borrowed
from square dancing:
http://www.tamtwirlers.org/tamination/b2/pass_the_ocean.html

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] rocks and dirt by Erik Weberg

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:27 PM, Laur <lc...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Can anyone share their opinion on why the caller would have chosen to make
> the change in the dance?  orientation or flow?
>

It's hard to know for sure without asking Carol (or whoever it was that
changed it). Here are some reasons (and examples) I can think of for
variations to be created:

- Fix poor transitions (right and left thru->circle left, ladies
chain->next neighbor balance).
- Fix timing issues (swing ending in the middle of a phrase).
- Add things that are missing (no partner swing, no neighbor swing).
- Eliminate unwanted figures (a balance in a smooth dance, a circle right,
too many circle lefts).
- Make a dance easier to dance or to teach (use hands in the circular hey).
- Other aesthetic reasons (substituting balance/gypsy/dosido before a
swing).

Those who feel strongly enough about choreography to change dances to fit
their programs have some aesthetic by which they judge the new dance to be
better than the original, but different callers prioritize different
things. As Alan mentioned, some callers (myself included) put a high value
on a neighbor swing because dancers seem to like it. Perhaps Carol (or
whoever) values the transitions here more than the original, enough to
outweigh the lack of a neighbor swing.

What are the questionable transitions in the original? If the circular hey
is done without hands, the balance is no problem. But swing to ladies chain
is not the smoothest. And (I noticed when I coincidentally called this
dance) there are ladies who will accidentally try to chain back instead of
allemanding. But I think there's still that risk of confusion in the
revised dance, as the ladies have the same cue twice - the other lady
extending a right hand.

(For the record, I think I called it with the variation A1 gypsy and swing.
My reasons: it flows well, it feels like a good fit with that part of the
dance, and I hadn't called any gypsy and swings yet in my program.)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Dances licensed with CC or similar

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Dave Casserly
<david.j.casse...@gmail.com>wrote:

> As far as I can tell, the way most callers call most dances is a breach of
> copyright, and they could potentially be sued for a lot of money for it
> (there's a statutory minimum of $750 per breach, which really adds up).


This is a really overreaching statement to make. I am not a lawyer.
However, there are many other parts of the law that come into play:
performing rights and fair use, for example. (Also, statutory damages are
only possible if the work is registered with the Copyright Office within 3
months of publication.) In my opinion, asserting that something "is a
breach of copyright" should be left to the courts.

For instance, I believe it's reasonable under fair use to copy this apropos
excerpt from Give-and-Take here, even though it's probably not reasonable
to copy the whole book:
"Text is copyright Larry Jennings, 2002. Copyright for each dance is
retained by the listed composer. Permission to
include each dance has been granted by the composer or his representative."
Now, Give-and-Take doesn't say that the composers also gave permission to
call their dances in public, but it would be most surprising (even for a
non-contradancing judge, I would think) to believe they intended otherwise.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] 11 dances without names (or authors) ... possible help???

[Yoyo Zhou]

Some of these have been identified already, but comments and more IDs:


> *--*
> *??NAME 3: IMPROPER*
> 
> N Bal & Sw
> 
> LL F, G roll L away with half sashay
> LL F, L roll G away with half sashay
> 
> L in for Al L 1.5
> P Swing
> 
> Ladies Chain
> LH Star
>

3: Rollin' and Tumblin' by Cis Hinkle has the ladies allemande right.
(They've just rolled their neighbor from their right to their left.)


*--*
> *??NAME 4: IMPROPER*
> 
> L in 4 steps & Bal Wave
> L out, G in  & Bal Wave
> 
> G Al L until see N
> N Swing
> 
> CL 3 places
> P Swing
> 
> LL F
> Ladies Chain
> *--*
>

4: A variant (Chris Page's?) of Trip to Lambertville by Steve
Zakon-Anderson.



> *??NAME 5: IMPROPER*
> 
> N B
> 
> LLF
> L Al L 1.5 (or Right???)
> 
> P B
> 
> G DSD 1 X
> Cir L 3/4  & pass through to new Ns
>

5: Monday Night in Ballard by Mike Richardson, but ladies allemande right.

Other comments:
2: gents should allemande left out of a swing.
9: after gents allemande right 1/2, neighbors allemande should be left.
11: your corner is the adjacent person who is not your partner. They seem
to be the same person as "new N".

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] criss cross heys

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:10 AM, JoLaine Jones-Pokorney
<jola...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello Bob - Can you elaborate on the A1 in Criss Cross Heys?  I don't
> understand "pass thru R." If it's becket and the circle L is all the way
> around, then you're passing through across the set, yes?  Are you passing
> thru on the right diagonal?  Sorry to be dense ;-)
>

It looks like the circle left is 3/4 and "pass thru R" passes the current
neighbor up/down.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Anyone know a dance that has Contra Corners with 4 Corners?

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 3:19 PM, Aahz Maruch <a...@pobox.com> wrote:
> On Sun, May 19, 2013, Yoyo Zhou wrote:
>>
>> There's a Ron Buchanan square, Contra Corners Canon, that has all 4
>> heads visit all 4 sides as their contra corners. I don't remember the
>> details well, but the head ladies are turning each other in the center
>> while the head gents turn their corners and vice versa.
>
> That sounds awfully similar to the Plus-level square dance call "Teacup
> Chain", do you have a reference so I can check?  (If you don't get it
> today, I won't see it for a week ;-)

It's probably similar in timing / phase shift but there are some differences:

teacup chain has the inactives at the sides (rather than the corners)
teacup chain has the ladies active (rather than the heads)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Anyone know a dance that has Contra Corners with 4 Corners?

[Yoyo Zhou]

There's a Ron Buchanan square, Contra Corners Canon, that has all 4
heads visit all 4 sides as their contra corners. I don't remember the
details well, but the head ladies are turning each other in the center
while the head gents turn their corners and vice versa.

(If anyone has the details, I'd be interested in collecting it!)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Does this dance exist?

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com>wrote:

> There is a similar dance which I heard Kathy Anderson call, which is I
> think is much better.
> I don;t remember the name, but it goes like this (improper)
>   Circle left, Neighbors swing Circle left 3 places,
> partners swing
>  Circle balance, women exchange places;   Circle balance, men
> exchange places
>  Circle balance, shift and spin right one place;   Circle balance,
> California twirl
>


Sounds like Lanny's Back by Erik Weberg (although his website has it as A1
neighbor gypsy and swing, and I've seen it called with neighbor balance and
swing).

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Looking for a Peter Stix dance

[Yoyo Zhou]

Sorry, sent prematurely. Here it is fully:

Expert Bits
Peter Stix
starts in a short wavy line with the men in the middle by the right

A1 balance the wave, men slide right
 partner swing
A2 ladies chain
 ladies allemande right 1/2, partner allemande left 1 to short waves
with ladies in the middle by the right
B1 balance the wave, ladies slide right
 neighbor swing
B2 pass thru to a wave, balance
 walk forward to next neighbor and allemande left 1 to short waves with
men in the middle by right

Re: [Callers] Looking for a Peter Stix dance

[Yoyo Zhou]

Expert Bits
Peter Stix
starts in a short wavy line with the men in the middle by the right

A1 balance the wave, men slide right
 partner swing
A2 ladies chain

Re: [Callers] Identify some dances

[Yoyo Zhou]

Thanks, all. I've found that the first dance (? 1), as I noted it, isn't in
any of your collections, because it doesn't work:

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:54 AM, Chris Page <chriscp...@gmail.com> wrote:

> #1 is probably a slightly tweaked "Going into Orbit" by Melanie
> Axel-Lute. (Original has a men's allemande in A1.)
>

 I think you meant that the original has a give and take (to the gent's
side) in A1.

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Linda Leslie <laleslie...@comcast.net>wrote:

> ?1 is a very slight variation on The Equal Turn by Tom Hinds. In Tom's
> dance the B1/ B2 is:
> B1 Circle left 3/4, pass thru, Women allemande left 1 1/2
> B2 P B & S


Both of these other dances put dancers on a different side from ? 1 the
next time around, which means that ? 1 puts dancers on the wrong side. So I
definitely have a transcription error. (The other clue is that I originally
noted down "ladies allemande right while gents orbit" but decided that
"right" must've been wrong.)

Yoyo Zhou

[Callers] Identify some dances

[Yoyo Zhou]

Dear callers,

Like many of you, I've collected a few dances whose titles and authors I
don't know. Since I always find it interesting to read when other people
post their unidentified dances, I thought I'd reciprocate. I've included
the name of the caller who called them, if that helps. Does anyone
recognize these?

(Transcription errors are always possible; corrections are welcome.)

? 1 (from Warren Blier)
becket
A1 gents allemande L 1+1/2
 neighbor swing
A2 right and left thru
 ladies chain
B1 circle left 3/4, pass thru up/down
 next ladies allemande L 1 while gents orbit 1/2
B2 partner balance, swing

? 2 (from Lisa Greenleaf)
improper
A1 square thru 2 up/down ((new) neighbor R, partner L)
 this neighbor swing
A2 long lines
 ladies allemande R 1+1/2
B1 partner balance, swing
B2 ladies chain
 square thru 2 across (partner R, this neighbor L)

? 3 (from Lisa Greenleaf; the author is from Denmark)
becket
A1 circle left 3/4, pass thru
 next neighbor swing
A2 long lines
 pass thru to wave (no balance), swing thru
B1 full hey, pass partner R
B2 partner gypsy, swing
(In the swing thru, it can flow better if gents just pass left instead of
allemanding left 1/2.)

? 4 (from George Marshall)
improper
A1 ladies walk forward to long wave, balance
 ladies allemande R 1/2, balance wave
A2 gents walk forward to long wave as ladies back up, balance
 gents allemande L 1/2, balance wave
B1 gents walk forward, partner gypsy, swing
B2 circle left 3/4; neighbor swing

? 5 (from Bob Isaacs, who I think is also the author)
becket
A1 circle left 3/4, pass thru to new neighbor
 single file promenade the set up/down (gents outside, ladies inside)
A2 turn over right shoulder and promenade back (ladies outside, gents
inside)
 neighbor swing
B1 long lines
 ladies allemande R 1+1/2
B2 partner balance, swing
(The tricky part is remembering who your new neighbor was.)

? 6 (from Mary Wesley)
becket
A1 slide left to new neighbors, ladies allemande R 1+1/2
 neighbor swing
A2 long lines
 gents allemande L 1+1/2, fall back into a ring
B1 balance ring, petronella turn
 balance ring, petronella turn
B2 partner balance, swing
(Ladies should make sure to catch gents spinning out of the allemande to
form a ring.)

Thanks,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Seeking on 80 beat "crooked" tune

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Jonathan LF King <squ...@ufl.edu> wrote:
>   Now I'm guessing the answer is "no", but just to clarify:
> Do any of you know of a YouTube video (or Vimeo, or
> similar) with musicians playing an 80-beat tune [but with
> no calling nor singing]?

After some more digging, I found an 80-beat / 40-bar tune (AABCC), The
Maids of Mt. Kisco:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKDfjOpx0Yc (just the first 3 times through)

I also found some AABCC versions of Elzic's Farewell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1ieaEHk77c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdeSSEYryBE (too fast tempo)

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Seeking on 80 beat "crooked" tune

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 9:41 PM, Jonathan LF King <squ...@ufl.edu> wrote:

> Folks
>
>   I'm looking for an online tune [presumably YouTube] for
> practicing calling "Major Hey" (Erik Hoffman's dance).
> It has five sixteen-beat parts (80 beats).  Here is a nice
> called version:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N62Ozg9Nm8Q
>
> It might be easier to find a tune that's AABBCC (for example, Reel
Beatrice or Banish Misfortune) and just pretend the partner swing is extra
long. Be careful when your actual band only plays 1 C part, though.

The caller in the video is Cis Hinkle (her name appears in the last second
of the video, and at 2:56 you can see her).

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] favourite easy 'out of minor set' dances???

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 11:54 AM, James Saxe <jim.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yoyo, I'm curious why you think a dance being in Becket formation
> would make the end effects less confusing (either for dances with
> out-on-minor-set interactions in general or for "Vote with Your Feet"
> in particular) than in a duple improper dance of otherwise similar
> complexity.

Perhaps it's not the becketness per se that makes it more forgiving to
couples out at the ends, but how much time they have to figure out
what to do next.

There's a detail I observed when teaching Steve Zakon-Anderson's 3-33
to a small crowd of beginners. Dancers progress in B2 and then
immediately in A1 a couple is out at the top. I saw some people
flummoxed by the choices available,

(a) turn to face their partner and balance and pull by as neighbor #1,
(b) trade places to wait improper (at the top) and wait for neighbor #2.

Neither of these is hard, but not knowing what to do can throw in that
instant can throw off even seasoned dancers.

By contrast, in Vote with Your Feet, the dancers progress in the A
section, so the couple out at the top has all of the B section to wait
improper for neighbors to come at them. Even if they end with a swing
in B2, there is only one way to end that swing.

Nonetheless, I agree that this belongs in the more challenging end of
the range of things you can do to leave the minor set.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] favourite easy 'out of minor set' dances???

[Yoyo Zhou]

You can start with dances where you see a next neighbor briefly but
return to your first neighbor:

Sneak Preview (Claudio Buchwald)
Poetry in Motion (Lisa Greenleaf)
Stripes and Solids (Lisa Greenleaf)
Mary Cay's Reel (David Kaynor)

Or dances where you see a shadow briefly but return to your partner:

Another Nice Combination (Tom Hinds)
Summer of '94 (Mike Richardson (Lisa Greenleaf variation))

Then you can be with your shadow for a while longer:

Chrysalis (Don Flaherty) - hey with your shadow, meet your partner
Balance to My Lou (Becky Hill) - one of the many from the petronella
with extra spin genre

Or with your next neighbor for a while longer:

Traveler's Welcome (Jim Kitch) - reasonably easy progressions forward
and backward and forward

Or see lots of neighbors:

Vote with Your Feet (Bob Isaacs) - becket, so it's not as confusing
for dancers out at the end

Yoyo Zhou


On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 6:40 AM, Jack Mitchell <jamit...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Here are two:
>
> Another Nice Combination - Tom Hinds
>
> A1N B
> A2Circle L 3/4, pass partner -- shadow DsD 1x
> B1P B
> B2Ladies Chain, Left Hand Star
>
> You're just barely out of your minor set, and it's generally the same
> person.  Also, if they miss it, they can just wander around somewhere for 8
> beats and then B their partner.
>
> Becky's Brouhaha - Rhiannon (Giddens) Laffan
>
> A1N Bal and Box the Gnat, Pull by R, (Previous N) Allemande L
> A2(Current) N B
> B1Circle L 3/4, P Sw
> B2Ladies Chain, Left Hand Star
>
> As far as the dance goes, similar reasoning to ANC.  Also, the dance was
> written as a birthday present for my wife by her best friend, so it has a
> personal connection too. ;-)
>
>
>
> On 2/6/2013 9:23 AM, Emily Addison wrote:
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone had relatively 'easy on the brain' 'out of your
>> minor set' dances???
>>
>> Here in Ottawa (Ontario), dancers aren't used to leaving their minor
>> set/partner to go dance with other.  I'd like to try a few really great
>> dances with this feature but they need to have a high success rate for a
>> room of folks not used to this feature of some contras.
>>
>> Any ideas and if so, why did you choose that dance
>>
>> Much thanks!
>> Emily Addison
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> call...@sharedweight.net
>> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> call...@sharedweight.net
> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers

Re: [Callers] Progression and "Going Out"

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 1:09 PM, Don Veino <sharedweight_...@veino.com> wrote:
> I'm wondering whether someone has developed a simple accurate mnemonic for
> the going out call, something like:
>
> "Progress in the B, say 1 or 3.
> Progress in the A, then even you say."

 Thinking about this, I think it's easier to watch what's going on.
You can usually identify a point in the dance - say, the start of B2,
which is also conveniently when you want to signal the band - when you
prefer that everyone at the top is active (this is the goal, right?).
If a couple is out, give an odd number. If they're in, give an even
number.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Repertoire...

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Greg McKenzie <greken...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can you define "down the hall" and explain why you see it as a problem?
>
> Do you mean "down the hall four in line", "Twos down the outside?"  Any
> "down the hall" figure at all?
>
> Just wondering.

 I can't speak for Tavi, but "It's easy to find simple dances with a
down-the-hall figure..." suggests that finding more dances that go
down the hall is not the pressing question, not that down the hall is
a problem per se.

 Down the hall in a line of 4 is by far the most common these days,
and it's distinctive enough that I'd be surprised to see it more than
twice in an evening. (Consider how often dancers automatically end a
swing facing across without the caller telling them to.) So one's
program needs to include a lot more dances that don't contain a
down-the-hall figure.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Repertoire...

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 3:00 PM, tavi merrill
<melodiouswoodch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...I'm specifically looking for low to medium piece-count dances WITHOUT
> down the hall.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone could point me towards dances that really hit a
> homer - things like: Jubilation (Gene Hubert), Thanks to the Gene (Tom
> HInds) Another Nice Combination (Tome Hinds), Star Struck (Nick Boulet),
> Simplicity Swing (Becky Hill), The Carousel (GH), The Baby Rose (David
> Kaynor), All You Can Eat (Ted Crane), 20 Below (Bill Olson)... dances that
> can be the bread and butter of a less advanced evening, or just a handy
> fall-back for more capable crowds. Dances without down-the-hall, and
> without awkward transitions (right through -> circle L?! agh!).

By the way, The Carousel is by Tom Hinds.

> What are the best places to go looking for other bread-and-butter
> repertoire like those? Anybody have a favorite fall-back or
> last-of-the-night dance they'd like to share?

As a new caller, I often think about this question of discovery. The
problem with collecting dances from published collections is that they
don't reflect the statistical reality of what dances actually get
called (which is a close enough approximation to what you're looking
for). Better, then, is to find sources that sample from a distribution
that's more similar to what dances actually get called. I like two
kinds of sources best: (1) going to contra dances, and (2) YouTube
videos (thanks to Chris Page for annotating many of them).

Incidentally, yesterday I prepared a lengthy list of relatively simple
dances (I wasn't sure how many I was going to need). These are the
ones without down the hall figures. In no particular order:

Simplicity Swing (Becky Hill)
The Second Time Around (Jim Kitch)
Easy Street (Bob Isaacs)
I Wish They All Could Be California Twirls (Jim Kitch)
Trip to Cleveland (Becky Hill)
Small Potatoes (Jim Kitch)
Hocus Pocus (Lisa Greenleaf)
Winter Storm (Linda Leslie)
Cranky Ingenuity (Bill Olson)
Judah Jig (Charlie Fenton)
A Last Hurrah (Erik Hoffman)
Summer of '94 (Mike Richardson / Lisa Greenleaf's variation)
Fairport Harbor (Paul Balliet)
You Can't Get There from Here (Carol Ormand)
Spring Fever (Tony Parkes)
Travels with Rick and Kim (Shari Miller-Johnson)
A Dance for Dan (Bill Olson)

More than one other caller, I think, has also chosen Tica Tica Timing
(Dean Snipes) as a last dance.

Hope this helps,
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Last minute New years idea

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:51 AM, Kalia Kliban <ka...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Does anyone have a good way to help the dancers out at the ends come in
> correctly for the chain?  I was noticing a lot of confusion at the top of
> the set as folks were trying to come back in.  If I was reading it right, it
> looked like they shouldn't switch positions until after the chain figure but
> I didn't quite have enough brain cells available to articulate it on the
> spot.

 When a couple progresses at the end of B2 and becomes out at the end,
their neighbor #1 is their partner (immediately at A1). I've seen some
callers talk about this pattern as "in this dance, you're never out".

 Then to come back into the set the next time around, they wait out as
normal to face new neighbors.

Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Joyride by Erik Weberg

[Yoyo Zhou]

On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 7:59 AM, Maia McCormick <maia@gmail.com> wrote:
> Does or does not this dance have a balance before the partner swing in B1?
> I think it makes a lot more sense with a balance there, but I danced it
> recently to a caller who insisted that there's not supposed to be a balance
> there, and that was how the author wanted it.

The author does not call for a balance:
http://www.kluberg.com/eriksdances.html#Joyride

Erik writes:

"This is one of the most flowing dances I've written..."
(yes, that's how I remember it; okay, probably no balance)

and then *crossed out*:

"The dance was originally written to dance the fifth change of the hey
in the B1, but dancers seem to prefer to arrive for the swing at the
top of the phrase.  That's fine, but they shouldn't arrive earlier
than that."

and then:

"I've recently been teaching this dance the way I initially intended
it; with the fifth change of the hey and then the swing in the B1 part
of the dance.  I've found that as I get better at teaching it, it has
become easier to convince dancers to suspend their hurry in getting to
the next figure during the A parts.  As dancers relax into the flow
they seem to enjoy it more, and saving that last crossing by the gents
until the B1 seems to enhance the joy."

--
Yoyo Zhou

Re: [Callers] Yet more mystery dances!

[Yoyo Zhou]

I believe David Kaynor told the story that, since the baby Rose had grown
up and was no longer a baby, he revised the title of that dance to be more
accurate: the Young Adult Rose.

Yoyo Zhou