Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Claire Baffaut via Callers]

Could anyone share a dance that has a promenade with a courtesy turn or can
any promenade across the set be adapted to promenade with a courtesy turn?

Claire

On Sep 4, 2016 7:37 AM, "Jack Mitchell via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Richard said:
> "My first dance with a courtesy turn may use it with a promenade,
> depending on the crowd. Then move on to dances with a chain or R
> Once the turn is understood and well done, the others are easy."
>
> And thus we come to why teaching moves with a courtesy turn is so much
> easier in New England (where promenade and courtesy turn are both done in
> the same position).  Oh how much easier if we all did a "New England
> promenade."
>
> J
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:47 AM Richard Hart via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I usually try to separate the courtesy turn from the chain. A courtesy
>> turn is used in a number of moves, including R through, and a
>> promenade. Practice that first with your partner. Man backs up and the
>> woman gores forward, with arms around your partner's back. .Remember
>> to stop facing the right direction, and as a caller remember to tell
>> dancers which way to face. This can be done in a couple of minutes or
>> so.
>>
>> My first dance with a courtesy turn may use it with a promenade,
>> depending on the crowd. Then move on to dances with a chain or R
>> Once the turn is understood and well done, the others are easy.
>>
>> I agree with Erik (and Dudley!) The walkthrough and instruction should
>> be short. They'd all rather be dancing, so don't introduce much new
>> stuff in any single dance.
>>
>> And thanks for this discussion. I love seeing new dances to try and
>> new possibilities to teach when there are a lot of beginners.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers
>>  wrote:
>> > Hello all,
>> >
>> > I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for
>> new
>> > dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
>> chain
>> > for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific
>> dance,
>> > what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
>> possible?
>> >
>> > Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
>> > Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
>> > What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
>> > What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
>> > Other factors you consider?
>> >
>> > I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things
>> I
>> > think about:
>> >
>> > I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
>> > whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
>> > would snowball.
>> >
>> > Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
>> > dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
>> > dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
>> > dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful
>> dance
>> > angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
>> > teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
>> > completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
>> >
>> > For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
>> > convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
>> > chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand
>> star
>> > is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
>> > wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
>> > progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
>> > chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
>> > after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which
>> side
>> > of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
>> > chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well,
>> but I
>> > don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long
>> wavy
>> > line is another new piece.
>> >
>> > Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about
>> simple
>> > glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
>> > have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
>> won't
>> > be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
>> thread
>> > ;-)
>> >
>> > Take care,
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Luke Donforth
>> > luke.donfo...@gmail.com
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Callers mailing list
>> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>> >
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> 

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Jack Mitchell via Callers]

Richard said:
"My first dance with a courtesy turn may use it with a promenade,
depending on the crowd. Then move on to dances with a chain or R
Once the turn is understood and well done, the others are easy."

And thus we come to why teaching moves with a courtesy turn is so much
easier in New England (where promenade and courtesy turn are both done in
the same position).  Oh how much easier if we all did a "New England
promenade."

J



On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 11:47 AM Richard Hart via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> I usually try to separate the courtesy turn from the chain. A courtesy
> turn is used in a number of moves, including R through, and a
> promenade. Practice that first with your partner. Man backs up and the
> woman gores forward, with arms around your partner's back. .Remember
> to stop facing the right direction, and as a caller remember to tell
> dancers which way to face. This can be done in a couple of minutes or
> so.
>
> My first dance with a courtesy turn may use it with a promenade,
> depending on the crowd. Then move on to dances with a chain or R
> Once the turn is understood and well done, the others are easy.
>
> I agree with Erik (and Dudley!) The walkthrough and instruction should
> be short. They'd all rather be dancing, so don't introduce much new
> stuff in any single dance.
>
> And thanks for this discussion. I love seeing new dances to try and
> new possibilities to teach when there are a lot of beginners.
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers
>  wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
> > dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
> chain
> > for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific dance,
> > what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
> possible?
> >
> > Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> > Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> > What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> > What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> > Other factors you consider?
> >
> > I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
> > think about:
> >
> > I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
> > whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
> > would snowball.
> >
> > Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
> > dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
> > dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
> > dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
> > angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
> > teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
> > completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
> >
> > For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
> > convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
> > chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand
> star
> > is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
> > wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
> > progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
> > chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
> > after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which
> side
> > of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
> > chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but
> I
> > don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
> > line is another new piece.
> >
> > Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about
> simple
> > glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
> > have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
> won't
> > be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
> thread
> > ;-)
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> >
> > --
> > Luke Donforth
> > luke.donfo...@gmail.com
> >
> > ___
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
-- 
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Richard Hart via Callers]

I usually try to separate the courtesy turn from the chain. A courtesy
turn is used in a number of moves, including R through, and a
promenade. Practice that first with your partner. Man backs up and the
woman gores forward, with arms around your partner's back. .Remember
to stop facing the right direction, and as a caller remember to tell
dancers which way to face. This can be done in a couple of minutes or
so.

My first dance with a courtesy turn may use it with a promenade,
depending on the crowd. Then move on to dances with a chain or R
Once the turn is understood and well done, the others are easy.

I agree with Erik (and Dudley!) The walkthrough and instruction should
be short. They'd all rather be dancing, so don't introduce much new
stuff in any single dance.

And thanks for this discussion. I love seeing new dances to try and
new possibilities to teach when there are a lot of beginners.

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers
 wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies chain
> for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific dance,
> what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as possible?
>
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
>
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
> think about:
>
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
> whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
> would snowball.
>
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
>
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
> chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star
> is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
> wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
> progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
> chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
> after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which side
> of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
> chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but I
> don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
> line is another new piece.
>
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
> have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly won't
> be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new thread
> ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Martha Wild via Callers]

Hey, I’m an experienced dancer, and I actually like the continuous flow of a 
“full” ladies chain. And having done it from the man’s side, it’s kind of fun 
there, too, to sidestep and then swoop the women’s role around or if the dance 
and partner permit, twirling them under. It’s a flowy move, I tend not to whoop 
in flowy dances (and I don’t see that so much from others either). Whooping 
goes well in the balancy dances. But it’s the match of the music with the dance 
that really gets me.
Martha

> On Aug 22, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new 
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies chain 
> for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific dance, 
> what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as possible?
> 
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up? 
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
> 
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I 
> think about:
> 
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't whoop 
> and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion would 
> snowball. 
> 
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced 
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new 
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new 
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance 
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to 
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to 
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner. 
> 
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not 
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2 chain->star, 
> find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star is non-trivial 
> for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star wasn't followed by 
> the progression would work, but it's such a great progression when they're 
> ready for it; I don't see many of those dances. chain->star->left allemande 
> maybe? I do like long lines either before or after the chain as a set-up; but 
> not on both ends. I'm not sure which side of the chain the lines help more. 
> The Trip to ___ dances that end with chains and start with women walking in 
> to long wavy lines flow well, but I don't know that they're the best for 
> teaching chains, since the long wavy line is another new piece.
> 
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple 
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight have 
> to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly won't be 
> offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new thread ;-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> 
> -- 
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[John Sweeney via Callers]

Hi Luke,
I use Chain 'n' Hey http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/ChainnHey.html a 
lot with groups where at least some of the people know what they are doing.  
No, I don't generally draw imaginary lines on the floor for ordinary heys (yes, 
for a Lichfield Hey!), but I often demonstrate and tell them to watch how we 
are walking figure eights (with extra loops) and weaving between each other.

I teach the Courtesy turn first, hand positions and hips together - 
tell them to imagine a pole between them and the man walks backwards around the 
pole, the lady walks forwards.  Once they get it I tell them, "OK. Now you are 
Pole Dancing". :-)

I then tell the ladies to make sure they only "touch & go" with their 
right hands - no holding on - and that their objective is to get around the man 
by passing him with their left shoulder - and to walk forwards all the time (so 
many try to back into the man's arm!).  Then I tell the men that their job is 
to step in and scoop up the lady with their right arm (I used to focus on the 
left hand, but have found that focussing on the right arm has more success), 
then do the courtesy turn that they have learnt.

Once they get it (reasonably well) I tell the ladies to step forwards 
and the men to step back and make a line of four ready for the hey (it really 
helps to get the men to step back!).  Now the ladies already know the path 
since it is exactly the same as two ladies' chains.  As long as I can persuade 
them to keep their eye on the last person they pass so they turn the easy way, 
and to make that turn a big loop, then there is a high level of success.  The 
dance is also forgiving since they have 16 beats of partner balance and swing 
to get back to their own side and get ready for the lines.

I think the R & L Through is the worst move of all!  It is completely 
counter-intuitive. The lady pulls by with her right hand, and especially if the 
man hangs on, she automatically starts to turn to the right, when she needs to 
turn to the left.  There are areas and styles where it is the standard to pass 
through without hands, then do the courtesy turn with hands.  I have a much 
higher success rate when I teach it that way.  I quite often change a R & L 
Through to a Half Promenade if there is only one dance I want to do in an 
evening that has a R & L Through.

Happy dancing,
John

John Sweeney, Dancer, England j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   

From: Luke Donforth via Callers [mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net] 
Sent: 23 August 2016 13:42
To: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

Interesting approach John. I'd personally hesitate to introduce both chain and 
a hey in the same dance for mostly new dancers. Do you draw an extensive 
parallel of the motion on the floor for the ladies?

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Cheryl Joyal via Callers]

This is one of my favorites too!!

Cheryl Joyal
630-667-3284

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:33 PM, Bob Green via Callers 
 wrote:

The dance I like for introducing the ladies chain, if I have a band that will 
work with me on tempo, is Carpet Vectors by Robert Cromartie.  The tempo has to 
stay on the slow side so that the circles left and right are not rushed. The 
sequence is a circle left and chain to your partner, then circle right and 
chain back to your neighbor. 
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/344-carpet-vectors-by-robert-cromarties-duple-improper

Bob Green

> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
>  wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new 
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies chain 
> for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific dance, 
> what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as possible?
> 
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up? 
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
> 
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I 
> think about:
> 
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't whoop 
> and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion would 
> snowball. 
> 
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced 
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new 
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new 
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance 
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to 
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to 
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner. 
> 
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not 
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2 chain->star, 
> find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star is non-trivial 
> for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star wasn't followed by 
> the progression would work, but it's such a great progression when they're 
> ready for it; I don't see many of those dances. chain->star->left allemande 
> maybe? I do like long lines either before or after the chain as a set-up; but 
> not on both ends. I'm not sure which side of the chain the lines help more. 
> The Trip to ___ dances that end with chains and start with women walking in 
> to long wavy lines flow well, but I don't know that they're the best for 
> teaching chains, since the long wavy line is another new piece.
> 
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple 
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight have 
> to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly won't be 
> offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new thread ;-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> 
> -- 
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com
> 
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

___
Callers mailing list
Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Bob Green via Callers]

The dance I like for introducing the ladies chain, if I have a band that
will work with me on tempo, is *Carpet Vectors *by Robert Cromartie.  The
tempo has to stay on the slow side so that the circles left and right are
not rushed. The sequence is a circle left and chain to your partner, then
circle right and chain back to your neighbor.
http://dancevideos.childgrove.org/contra/contra-modern/344-carpet-vectors-by-robert-cromarties-duple-improper

Bob Green

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
> chain for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific
> dance, what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
> possible?
>
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
>
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
> think about:
>
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
> whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
> would snowball.
>
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
>
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
> chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star
> is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
> wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
> progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
> chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
> after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which side
> of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
> chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but I
> don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
> line is another new piece.
>
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
> have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
> won't be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
> thread ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Ron Blechner via Callers]

What Maia listed is exactly how I teach the courtesy-turn moves. (I wonder
if Maia got it from me... I think I stole it as a combination from Peter
Stix and Jack Mitchell).

Without a beginner lesson, I teach the courtesy-turn in place, then add the
pull-by to the front of it. This also works to quickly teach a chain when
the gents role is doing it. ;)

My favorite basic chain-teach dances involve chaining to a neighbor*:
Baby Rose, David Kaynor
A Nice Combination, Gene Hubert
The Missing Piece, Bronwyn Woods (which may also go by another name. Chain
to balance, Petronellas)
Simplicity Swing, Becky Hill (only if the this is like, the third dance,
since it's a busy dance)
and mine, Mistakes Happen; Have Fun (I put in all of my beginner lesson
basic ingredients in it: circle, Alle N, star, chain, 2 swings)

Best,
Ron

* Unless the crowd is 99% experienced and I know new dancers are not
dancing with each other, then I may do it with a chain-to-partner.

On Aug 23, 2016 1:12 PM, "Maia McCormick via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Real interesting discussion! My two cents on the order of teaching: I've
> been having good luck lately with teaching in the following order--
> 1) promenade the ring
> 2) turn around to promenade the opposite direction (lady walks forward and
> gent walks back, i.e. CCW rotation--get everyone used to turning in the
> right direction)
> 3) promenade across the set ("gents, identify your own left shoulder. Now
> identify that other gent's left shoulder. That's how you're going to pass
> each other")
> 4) R/L through *with a demo*
> 5) ladies chain
>
> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Aahz via Callers <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
>> >
>> > Just a note: I always teach the right and left through. It is a
>> > simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much sense
>> > for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers
>> > are crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with
>> > the dancer directly across, then left-hands on the side and you
>> > courteously help each other turn via a courtesy turn.
>>
>> Most of my teaching has been in a square dance context, but I teach Pass
>> Thru, Courtesy Turn before I teach R Thru.  And I teach sashayed
>> Courtesy Turn -- probably wouldn't bother with that in a contra context.
>>
>> There's a regular argument in the square dance community about whether
>> it's better to teach the handed version or no-hands version of calls
>> first (e.g. California Twirl vs Partner Trade).  I overall favor the
>> handed calls first because it's better body flow and the guide makes it
>> easier to learn the call.  However, I switch with R Thru because
>> learning how to take and drop hands while passing is a bit of a tricky
>> skill for many people (the biggest culprit usually being Square Thru).
>> --
>> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
>> http://rule6.info/
>>   <*>   <*>   <*>
>> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
>> ___
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Maia McCormick via Callers]

Real interesting discussion! My two cents on the order of teaching: I've
been having good luck lately with teaching in the following order--
1) promenade the ring
2) turn around to promenade the opposite direction (lady walks forward and
gent walks back, i.e. CCW rotation--get everyone used to turning in the
right direction)
3) promenade across the set ("gents, identify your own left shoulder. Now
identify that other gent's left shoulder. That's how you're going to pass
each other")
4) R/L through *with a demo*
5) ladies chain

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:58 PM, Aahz via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 23, 2016, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
> >
> > Just a note: I always teach the right and left through. It is a
> > simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much sense
> > for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers
> > are crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with
> > the dancer directly across, then left-hands on the side and you
> > courteously help each other turn via a courtesy turn.
>
> Most of my teaching has been in a square dance context, but I teach Pass
> Thru, Courtesy Turn before I teach R Thru.  And I teach sashayed
> Courtesy Turn -- probably wouldn't bother with that in a contra context.
>
> There's a regular argument in the square dance community about whether
> it's better to teach the handed version or no-hands version of calls
> first (e.g. California Twirl vs Partner Trade).  I overall favor the
> handed calls first because it's better body flow and the guide makes it
> easier to learn the call.  However, I switch with R Thru because
> learning how to take and drop hands while passing is a bit of a tricky
> skill for many people (the biggest culprit usually being Square Thru).
> --
> Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6
> http://rule6.info/
>   <*>   <*>   <*>
> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Aahz via Callers]

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016, George Mercer via Callers wrote:
>
> Just a note: I always teach the right and left through. It is a
> simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much sense
> for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers
> are crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with
> the dancer directly across, then left-hands on the side and you
> courteously help each other turn via a courtesy turn.

Most of my teaching has been in a square dance context, but I teach Pass
Thru, Courtesy Turn before I teach R Thru.  And I teach sashayed
Courtesy Turn -- probably wouldn't bother with that in a contra context.

There's a regular argument in the square dance community about whether
it's better to teach the handed version or no-hands version of calls
first (e.g. California Twirl vs Partner Trade).  I overall favor the
handed calls first because it's better body flow and the guide makes it
easier to learn the call.  However, I switch with R Thru because
learning how to take and drop hands while passing is a bit of a tricky
skill for many people (the biggest culprit usually being Square Thru).
-- 
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6http://rule6.info/
  <*>   <*>   <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[George Mercer via Callers]

I don't call much anymore.  I teach the courtesy turn all by itself from
the side of the set. It is a "courtesy." One person assists the other to
turn and arrive in the right position. Practice it from standing still --
at least twice so that the dancers are facing back into the set again. Then
I teach the ladies chain: ladies right-hand pull by across the set while
gents move into receiving or welcoming position, then both crossing ladies
and welcoming gents extend and joining left hands and while joining right
hands behind the ladies' waist the gent courteously assists her in turning
into the right place. Just a note: I always teach the right and left
through. It is a simple move in the grand scheme, but it doesn't make much
sense for beginners. Saying it is like a ladies chain only both dancers are
crossing doesn't really help. Right-hand pull by across with the dancer
directly across, then left-hands on the side and you courteously help each
other turn via a courtesy turn.  .

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
> chain for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific
> dance, what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
> possible?
>
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
>
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
> think about:
>
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
> whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
> would snowball.
>
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.
>
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
> chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star
> is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
> wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
> progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
> chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
> after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which side
> of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
> chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but I
> don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
> line is another new piece.
>
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
> have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
> won't be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
> thread ;-)
>
> Take care,
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com 
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Interesting approach John. I'd personally hesitate to introduce both chain
and a hey in the same dance for mostly new dancers. Do you draw an
extensive parallel of the motion on the floor for the ladies?

As for apostrophes; well, contra I'm willing to teach. English, I've just
about given up on learning it, let alone teaching it ;-)

Yoyo, I like how you look at where they can enter the next move if they're
late. The difference between trying to get into a star versus trying to get
into long lines for accessibility; I think that's a good lens. The sequence
you jotted would be pretty forgiving. But I wonder about becket vs
improper. Do you use a lot of becket dances with brand new dancers? They're
(in my opinion) closer to the circle of couples that are often used as
beginner lessons. Going from circle of couples to becket to improper over
the course of a couple dances could segue a new crowd.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 6:40 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Luke,
> It depends on the skill levels in the hall.  If I have a lot of
> first timers or perpetual beginners I use a very simple dance like
> http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/ChainnHey.html
>
> For teaching I would much rather do the chain there and back to
> give more practice; the Yearn means that the dancers are set up ready to
> start the chain (no guarantee they will be in the right place after a
> beginner swing!); and the ladies flow out of the second chain to start the
> hey.
>
> By the way, I see you put the apostrophe in “gent’s chain”, so
> surely it should be “ladies’ chain” ☺
>
> Happy dancing,
>John
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>



-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com 

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[John Sweeney via Callers]

Hi Luke,
It depends on the skill levels in the hall.  If I have a lot of first 
timers or perpetual beginners I use a very simple dance like 
http://contrafusion.co.uk/Dances/ChainnHey.html

For teaching I would much rather do the chain there and back to give 
more practice; the Yearn means that the dancers are set up ready to start the 
chain (no guarantee they will be in the right place after a beginner swing!); 
and the ladies flow out of the second chain to start the hey.

By the way, I see you put the apostrophe in “gent’s chain”, so surely 
it should be “ladies’ chain” ☺

Happy dancing,  
   John 

John Sweeney, Dancer, England   j...@modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 
574   
http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs 
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent   

Re: [Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[via Callers]

To a neighbor so the knowledge gets passed around. 

Half a chain bc if they get behind and discombobulated on both halves of a full 
chain it's harder for them to fix. 

Preceded by a partner swing and by Long lines so they are definitely in the 
correct place. (Callers have time to cue "end with the lady on the right and 
long lines go forward and back" and then chain)

Followed by ladies do something in the middle. They get the flow that sends 
them in and I find that humans dancing the lady's role tend to be a little more 
reliable as dancers. So to have the ladies lead the figure after a chain which 
some dancers will find confusing might be more successful and can give whoever 
is dancing he gents role a few seconds of recovery time. 

Nice topic! 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 22, 2016, at 11:18 AM, Luke Donforth via Callers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new 
> dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies chain 
> for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific dance, 
> what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as possible?
> 
> Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
> Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
> What move best precedes the chain to set it up? 
> What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
> Other factors you consider?
> 
> I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I 
> think about:
> 
> I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't whoop 
> and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion would 
> snowball. 
> 
> Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced 
> dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new 
> dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new 
> dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance 
> angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to 
> teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to 
> completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner. 
> 
> For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not 
> convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2 chain->star, 
> find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star is non-trivial 
> for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star wasn't followed by 
> the progression would work, but it's such a great progression when they're 
> ready for it; I don't see many of those dances. chain->star->left allemande 
> maybe? I do like long lines either before or after the chain as a set-up; but 
> not on both ends. I'm not sure which side of the chain the lines help more. 
> The Trip to ___ dances that end with chains and start with women walking in 
> to long wavy lines flow well, but I don't know that they're the best for 
> teaching chains, since the long wavy line is another new piece.
> 
> Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple 
> glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight have 
> to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly won't be 
> offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new thread ;-)
> 
> Take care,
> 
> 
> -- 
> Luke Donforth
> luke.donfo...@gmail.com
> ___
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

[Callers] Favorite dance to teach a ladies chain?

[Luke Donforth via Callers]

Hello all,

I've been thinking about glossary dances, and building vocabulary for new
dancers. I'm curious what your favorite dance is for teaching a ladies
chain for a crowd of mostly new dancers? Or if you don't have a specific
dance, what do you look for in a dance to make the chain as accessible as
possible?

Just a chain over? Or a full chain over and back?
Chain to neighbor? Chain to partner?
What move best precedes the chain to set it up?
What move best follows the chain that still helps new dancers succeed?
Other factors you consider?

I don't have a go-to favorite, but I'll walk through some of the things I
think about:

I very seldom call a dance with a full chain. Experienced dancers don't
whoop and holler over them, and for new dancers, I'd worry the confusion
would snowball.

Programatically, in a hall with a reasonable mix of new and experienced
dancers, I shoot for the first chain to be to neighbor so that the new
dancers can feel it with different experienced dancers; rather than new
dancers (who will partner up and clump, no matter how many helpful  dance
angels you have) continually chaining to each other. If I were trying to
teach a chain to ALL new dancers... well, I doubt I'd teach a chain to
completely new dancers... but if I were, I'd probably go to partner.

For moves, while I love the chain->left hand star transition; I'm not
convinced it's the best for teaching the chain. It often goes B2
chain->star, find new neighbor; and the new neighbor from a left hand star
is non-trivial for new dancers. Possibly a dance where the chain->star
wasn't followed by the progression would work, but it's such a great
progression when they're ready for it; I don't see many of those dances.
chain->star->left allemande maybe? I do like long lines either before or
after the chain as a set-up; but not on both ends. I'm not sure which side
of the chain the lines help more. The Trip to ___ dances that end with
chains and start with women walking in to long wavy lines flow well, but I
don't know that they're the best for teaching chains, since the long wavy
line is another new piece.

Anyway, just some of my thoughts (started by the other thread about simple
glossary dances). I look forward to hearing what others on Shared Weight
have to say about the dances they use to teach chains (and I certainly
won't be offended if folks tangent off into gent's chains; just start a new
thread ;-)

Take care,


-- 
Luke Donforth
luke.donfo...@gmail.com